Will paid health insurance for retired teachers eventually go away? Can state afford to maintain benefit?

PLEASE!!! What else can they extract from educators? All I can remember since I entered the teaching profession some 20 years ago is how much we do for the children and the community. As usual, we are the first to be hit with furloughs(past 5 years) and overall pay cuts(2%) in Cobb Scchools. This is the worst tragedy. Why do people believe we will deliver the best we can offer to students with so little in return?
Think about it and be afraid–Be very afraid!!!

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how much we do for the children and the community

Getting your outrageous health care cost supplemented when they don’t is not service to the children and the community. Do you know that in rich countries, that in addition to medical, the social care package includes dentistry for all citizens? Do you realise how backwards and behind we are in the U. S.? Of course, this means that doctors do not routinely live in half-million to million dollar homes, and there’s likely more doctors, since the through-put is not controlled by the extremely uppity “AMA” with their “We are Gods and different from everyone else” complex that they train into young doctors, which is really just cover so they can perpetuate their financial exploit as “business doctors,” you know, when the doctors own the equipment and provide the services and they separately bill for both of them, a system where routinely people spend 3 days in the hospital or ICU and leave with a bill exceeding $100,000. Meanwhile, now that there is the internet, people in rich countries outside of the U. S. report, “Oh yes, I went through that. It cost me thirty bucks.”

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It is now time…, except that all of the U. S. internet web definitions of “inefficient markets” are based on personal investing, which is not the context. This, too, is something people in the U. S. do not know and do not understand, that finance and business outside of the U. S., are taught completely differently, with different aims, modes, and values. “Business” is not something that only serves finance and investors, something has been thoroughly institutionalised inside the USA, whereas if you go to a business school outside of the USA and show this approach, they’ll look at you like you’re a sociopath, as “business” serves and affects everyone, not just the %$%$% taking all the money.

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“An inefficient market is one in which (services) are underpriced or overpriced by market participants.”

http://www.investorglossary.com/inefficient-market.htm

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School personnel (who have been regularly unappreciated, underpaid, and offered few chances for advancement) will pay the entire cost (as they enter the 60-year age bracket and the cost goes up and their retirement income drops to 2/5 of their earned income) of the insurance (which will not include vision or dental because those are county supplemented and are too expensive to add at the age of retirement).
On a happy note, retired school personnel will be eligible to work as Walmart greeters for minimum wage and no benefits — but much more appreciation from the public.

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Teachers supported Obama & therefore ObamaCare. Congratulations teachers on getting what you voted for!

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Oh, and lest we forget, GA refused the chance to create the state-level healthcare group. So the feds will impose one on us. I guess that lets the “decision-makers” point fingers, much easier than actually doing something.

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Almost all private-sector companies have taken away this benefit – because the cost is ENORMOUS. I used to work for a company that had a “point system”, so you could retire and keep your insurance if the total of age and years worked totalled 80 points. They laid me off before I reached those points. Think about it – teachers can retire after 30 years of service – if they enter teaching at 22, that makes them eligible for retirement at 52 – younger than I am. Medicare doesn’t kick in until 65 so that is 13 years of insurance payments, probably at $12,000 per year – over $150,000 in benefits paid – equal to an additional $5000 per year in benefits.

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in 30 years, we’ll be forced into govt run healthcare. it really won’t matter. then everyone will have to beg a bureaucrat to approve their medical procedures.

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What else can we expect from state leaders who have consistently backed away from their responsibilities? Public education is well on its way to being dismantled, so such legislation as HB 263 fits right in. To make it even muddier, Rep. Martin admits his bill had a serious flaw in the draft that was read and submitted. As Dr. Garrett points out, state leaders chose not to set aside money for the future costs of this promised benefit for teachers, and they were so negligent that after actually designating $100 million one year, they took it back and spent it on something else. What does that tell us about the sheer gall and vacant financial skills of the folks under the dome? It says they don’t have a clue about anything except killing the one institution that can make Georgia whole again. Say what you will, public education is now hanging by a thread which will soon break and give us the chaos we deserve for electing such uncaring and incompetent leaders.

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Several years ago I read an ajc article about this. If I remember correctly, the article stated retiree teacher healthcare cost significantly more to the taxpayers of GA than active teacher healthcare. There is something wrong with this.

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Yes it will go away. Teachers are not in the profession to get rich but there are some perks that helps with the lack of pay. One is being able to retire after 30 years and half way afford to live. Having health insurance is a big part of that. I am a teacher with 25 years experience and I can say that most teachers need to retire after 30 years. I have saw it over the years not many teachers with over 30 years in the classroom are very effective. Some of these are dear friends of mine. They mean well and trybut they can’t seem to keep up. I myself see my skills slipping even though I have tried very hard to stay up and tuned to my students so that I will not be that ineffective teacher. A vast majority of retired teachers have to work at some job after retirement to make ends met. I am so worried because the trend in this country now is to take from those who worked for something and give it to those who did not. Look at all the entitlements given to the young, healthy, able bodied young people in our country. My mother who relies on the Social Security that SHE

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Past AJC articles on teacher healthcare premiums have stated that the state—we Georgia taxpayers—actually foot around 75% of the cost.

Not “half” the cost, as some above mistakenly seem to believe.

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Maybe you should learn the writing term “stream of consciousness.”

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“in 30 years, we’ll be forced into govt run healthcare. it really won’t matter. then everyone will have to beg a bureaucrat to approve their medical procedures.”

LOL- As opposed to the insurance companies who do such as excellent job.

Read the recent in depth Time magazine article regarding where the profits for health care really go – not to doctors and nurses – and certainly as patients we pay way more than any other country for the exact same procedures (with the exception of Medicare – an organization that does control costs). We will never control health care costs until we can extend Medicare down to age 50. We cannot continue to pay 20% of our GDP to health care. This is economically unsustainable. The for profit market is not working for health care because when you are sick and in pain, you really don’t have a lot of “choice” to participate in the health care market or to”shop” around. That makes it unique in the marketplace and in addition easy prey for those seeking enormous profits.

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you’ve got a cat and a bicycle. Time to get real, Mrs. Snirt, When are you going to pay?

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It is said that there are three interlopers getting the revenue out of the need for healthcare: insurance companies, hospital administration, and pharmaco – the pharmaceutical industry.

Everyone knows that outside of the United States, it is illegal for pharmaceutical companies to advertise specific drugs in the public media, right? This is for the simple reason that the practice adds cost to the public, not to mention, doctors are supposed to be the ones choosing drugs for patients, not patients self-prescribing based on a television/ magazine/ radio ad.

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It is my personal theory that in the United States, the cost of healthcare is directly contributing to the high cost of higher education. The two seem to have gone up together in cost. Someone said they saw the cost of tuition at their university double during the time they were studying.

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Indigo, Things have changed. Please review the Ed Asner animated video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc

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Private Citizen -”there are movements right now”

The situation I described did not just happen. It has been this way for many years now.

I do not see any changes at all. Corporations have a grip on our political system that will be next to impossible to break.

I don’t have any hope at all.

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For the most part, teachers won exemption from the 12.4% Social Security tax that the rest of us have to pay. That tax is being used to fund the daily operations of the country instead of being in a “lock box” as Al Gore suggested it should. Teachers get retirement benefits as young as 55 years of age while the rest of us wait until we are 67. Maybe teachers should take the money they should be paying into SS and invest it to cover the cost of health benefits later in life. The proposed bill does not call for teachers to start paying for another thirty years so they have time to plan.
@PLEASE@ “All I can remember since I entered the teaching profession some 20 years ago is how much we do for the children and the community.” Please, compare retirement benefits between you and the rest of us and be happy with what you have. You pay less in taxes than the rest of the community and teachers never complain about not having to pay into SS.

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It has been this way for many years now.

Reagan is the guy who grabbed the wheel and turned the corner into corpro – klepto- fascisto – tocracy. They did by changing as many laws as possible including the ownership of major media market. Socialist Marvin Harris (cultural anthropologist?) does a real swell job describing what has happened. He attributes it to centralised power, centralising ownership. According to Harris, this is also why employees do not care about anything now, when you walk into a corporate retail store and the employee acts like “I don’t know you” or the car dealership warranty people do the same, meanwhile the stuff you just bought doesn’t work right or keeps breaking. Vint Cerf of Google has observed that in 1975 there were 1800 different telephone companies in the United States. Meanwhile, today in Georgia in 2013, there is one company with a monopoly on wired internet. (and the other company, ATT, wants out of the wired / DSL business, is rolling up services, denying service).

I think we can use the year 1975 as a reference from when transition to centralised ownership of markets began to occur.

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typo: Sociologist Marvin Harris (cultural anthropologist?)

note: Harris is an academic, has no political slant whatsoever. Mainly he wrote books about cultures in countries out the USA until he started to ask himself, “How come nothing works any more?” about home.

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There are two types of educational programs available to aspiring medical assistants. Some
schools offer a one-year certificate, or you may complete a two-year associate’s degree from
an accredited school. The coursework for medical assistants will include medical terminology,
math and science, first aid, medical billing, and more.

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Georgia teachers are not exempt from Social Security taxes. Some City of Atlanta employees (about 2500) opted out of Social Security a few decades ago, but not teachers.

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The insurance coverage is part of my compensation package. It’s fine with me if they take it as long as we can negoatiate how they will make that up to me. The problem is I have no way to negotiate like folks in the private sector. It’s a different system that many can’t seem to grasp. We serve totally at the whim of the governor and legislature. Even if they set up a rewards system similar to private employment they have demonstrated that they are not good to their word on paying
us. Indivduals could always quit and find work elsewhere. That’s getting more tempting everyday. Problem is, I love my job. I can go back to the private sector anytime I want and make better money. How is that helping education in Georgia? Legislation like this shows a complete disdain for educators. Georgia can afford this. We have some of the lowest taxes around. We have a rediculous number of special tax loopholes for businesses. Just yesterday the AJC covered a $9 million loophole for GA aviation being reauthorized. We’ve got to raise revenue or we’ll continue to be a laughing stock. The reason businesses aren’t coming here is not because our taxes are too high, it’s that our “Quality of Life” issues are so poor-education, parks, mental health services, etc. All things that reasonable taxation could remedy. When I retire, I’ll be looking for a state to go to that has much better resources than Georgia. My family came here in the 1820’s, but it’s time to re-establish in a place where the leaders have some vision beyond just the business community.

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My family came here in the 1820’s, but it’s time to re-establish in a place where the leaders have some vision beyond just the business community.

The problem is that rich foreign countries do not welcome Americans with open arms. And in the best circumstances, you’d have to learn their language. But if you can get in the EU system, the EU has healthcare provision across all of the member countries. If you’re Czech and you stub your toe in Austria, you’ve covered. You get professional medical treatment and leave with your wallet intact.

…But they do not seem to have the same problem with government vice as seems to be a standard now in Georgia. And can anyone please explain to me how school district superintendents are paid a higher pay rate than the governor, a U. S. senator, or the vice president of the United States? Maybe that is why school districts treat teachers as alien, they live in fear that someone will notice their pay structure.

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@ Puerile Citizen:

As readers will note, your symptoms seem to ebb and flow as the day progresses. Is this related to a medication schedule?

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@Bob, I’m not sure where you got the idea that teachers don’t pay into Social Security. There are some systems, such as mine, that have opted out, but most still pay in. Also, those who never pay in will not receive any benefits. When I retire I will be eligible to receive SS benefits because I worked other jobs before I became a teacher, and I still have a part time job from which I pay into SS. However, because I am a government employee and will receive a pension (to which I also contribute), my pension will be reduced because I receive Social Security. I’m not sure if this applies to all government employees or just those of us who work for organizations that don’t pay in to Social Security.

The old folks definitely had it better. My father retired in 1972. After he died in 1993, my mother was allowed to keep his health insurance. When she died five years ago, she was only paying ten dollars a month for her premiums with a $400 deductible which she thought was really high.

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http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

Great info. on our healthcare woes. I hope we haven’t totally missed the boat on a chance at single payer.

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Tell you what: take away health benefits for the elected officials,too, and I will be okay with this bill. Make it for everyone or keep it as is.

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Batgirl ,
“@Bob, I’m not sure where you got the idea that teachers don’t pay into Social Security. There are some systems, such as mine, that have opted out,”
Batgirl, I never said all and you just admitted some do not. And MOST are in a PERS type system along with most state and local pub employees.
Not being stuck in a PONZI is the best benefit one can have.

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These culty school systems have some of the public conned to the point that some of the public think that school superintendents have more responsibility than a U. S. senator. This is playing out like a Shakespeare play where the bad people are wearing masks of nobility and the public goes along with it.

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Brasstown, Ask any member of the U. S. military, or service people returning from Afghanistan, who has greater responsibility, a school system superintendent or a U. S. senator. Go ask those folk in Baghdad about all of the responsibility a school superintendent has for them. Go ask the people who run the nuclear reactors that make your electricity, and the people who manage the interstate highway system about all of the responsibility a school superintendent has for them. Go ask the people who regulate food inspections so that you can buy groceries without getting sick, go ask them about all of the responsibility a school superintendent has for them. Go ask the people who make it so that thousands of jets can land and take off without colliding into each other at the busiest airport in the world in Atlanta about all of the responsibility a half-wit poser highly paid school superintendent who could not write a computer program to save their life and has no idea how to operate radar or radio frequencies has for them. Why not go ask the medical staff who operate the MRI and CATscan machines at the hospital, many of the best which are made outside of the USA, ask them how vital a school superintendent is to them. Go ask the finance people on Wall Street, where 50% of the Harvard graduates go to work, how vital a school superintendent is to them, they’re probably start laughing and spill their coffee.

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where is the Southern Poverty Law Center now?

They’re making poverty. Where did you think they’re at? Can’t you read?

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Neglecting, overlooking, shunning small sores and ulcers have become cancerous. This feed back of negative cycle is race to the bottom.

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James, If you get in a car wreck, they’ll send a helicopter “Life Star!” for you. If you have pre-cancerous bumps, forget about any care. If you get an appendicitis, prepare to have you world turned upside down and lose your home due to required paperwork to sign before the operation.

Many reports online from American travellers abroad, Wow. No hassle. They treated me without asking any questions. And then the bill came to $5.45.

If you have any doubts, do a web search for “cost of appendectomy.”

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what are the solutions:

-require the State, by law, to lock box (I know, I’m laughing too) healthcare and pension money. it can be securely invested, but cannot be used to pay anything else but healthcare/pensions.

-if the State wishes to make these changes, create a step down program.
—anyone within 10 years of retirement, honor them in full
—anyone 10-15 years away, pay for X amount
—anyone 15-20 years away, pay for Y amount
—anyone 20+ years away, welcome to the new world.

-the State can require patients to go to a managed care program as part of the package, or cap the costs at x level and the rest are up to you. provided there is a built in exemption for under treatment pre-existing conditions.

-the State can require all RX be generic unless no generic is available.

-the State can partner with us to create an oversight board 1/2 them, 1/2 us. but us is not just the presidents and HR wonks, but Joe average too. any and all increases/decreases/alterations must be approved by this committee before showing up in our mailboxes.

-the State can raise the retirement age to 70. not for those who don’t know. if you reach your 30 before you turn 65 (maybe a bit earlier) you can not collect most benefit until then.

-the State can charge a higher premium for covering spouses than it currently does.

-as a show of good faith, the State can sell Sonny’s Fish Camp – t market value – and dump the proceeds into the retirement fund.

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The comparable cost of the same surgery in Germany is $3,093.

Cost of Appendectomy:
India – $254.
Argentina – $1,030.
Spain – $2,615.
Germany – $3,093.
France – $3,164.
Australia – $4,926.
Chile – $5,509.
Canada – $5,606.
Switzerland – $5,840.
USA – $7756. (lowest price); $13,003 (average price); $27,797. (95th percentile price)

http://ww.ifhp.com/documents/2011iFHPPriceReportGraphs_version3.pdf

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lastly, what will happen if the State acts on this as presented

–lawsuits, and a lot of them. the State will be in breach of contract and the usual suspects like SCLC, NAACP, ACLU, ect will be lining up to eat the States lunch in court. it’ll cost the State more in court costs than it will to amend the system

–brain drain. the most qualified will bail with the rising sun. they may end up in a state with no retirement bennies, but the pay will be better. this includes charter schools. frankly Georgia is really lucky we keep what we have. don’t like the quality of education now…..just wait.

–teachers unions. real ones. yup, unions. if Georgia summarily voids the contract with us, social and legal, it will be the final straw. there are a lot us, and when motivated we can vote as a hard block. just ask King Roy. do not assume the legal restrictions can’t be voted out – they can with a large enough percent of voters – and we can gather a lot of voters.

there are reasons Georgia has the fastest growing union membership in the nation.

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I’d like a real teacher union for one reason only, so there would professional labor management instead of a bunch of deeply rooted local folk running around acting like they’re have a sororiety party at everyone else’s expense.

But “a real teacher union” would inevitably be connected to a bunch of bogus stuff at the federal level, at 10:10 repeatedly and correctly points out. The best thing would be for Georgia to have a single in-state teacher union without connection to the national schemes.

Right now there are several fake “professional organizations” siphoning money off from teachers, I can name 5 of them. It is such a mess. As Indigo said about another issue, I have no hope in this matter. And these local jerks will continue to marauder public education, like they think it is a party all set up for them to pay themselves and their friends, and treat real pro’s as aliens who threaten them by teaching real opportunity to the poor kids. Do that and you’ll be identified, stalked, harassed, undermined, and slow-motion fired through spamming your work file and causing dangerous life-threatening levels of stress – ask my friend who was carried out on a gurney and is now a principal at an extremely selective high-end district in another state, and they’ll call it “professional development” in Georgia.

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Private,
Senators are clearly more important than school superintendents. They are also more important than the CEO of Coke, but their compensation varies.

No one should wait for any of them to rescue you on the battlefields of Afganistan. That kind of help has no pay grade.

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Hey Brasstown, A decade ago, at the start of the school year, French students each received a usb drive with their software and programs on it. Which reminds me, February 14th passed and I forget to send to send a valentine to Minister of Colonisation Arne Duncan. I wonder what he’ll come up with in the following year to merit some collective love from the teachers?

The problem is that the Georgia and U. S. system is so far off the balance scales, that any observation seems just as imbalanced. Steinbeck wrote about barefoot students circa 1923. You’d thing we would have gotten somewhere. Instead, they replaced his books with “Newberry Award Winners” like Bridge to Terabithia coordinated distribution with a follow-up Hollywood movie that at least had the dignity to add “chasing Bigfoot Sasquatch” to the story line, even feature it on the movie poster, something you will not find in this “award winning” simpleton’s book. I used to doubt my observations and then the implements “SLO” testing on elementary school students. It’s like they must come up with this stuff and laugh about it. And the state goes along with every bit of it, like agreeing to snipe hunt, and the local districts play along, occasionally bothered to issue a press release about their “star school” where the local political caste attends (portfolio application optional, unless you just happen to be a bright poor kid).

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Brasstown, Special present just for you, US K12 curriculum edition http://www.soundtrack-covers.com/images/bridge-to-terabithia-poster-big.jpg

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I hope this is a positive outlet for you. It can be a good way to burn up some excess energy right now.

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What readers must understand is that this bill has not come about in isolation. It has had an ultra rightwing political foundation established decades ago, for its emergence this year in Georgia’s General Assembly, and the forces of power and wealth in our nation that established that initial foundation are continuing to work into the future to change our nation from the democratic nation that it has been, which has encompassed a healthy balance between the public sector and the private sector, to a nation in which the private sector dominates all, for the benefit primarily of those few of wealth and power.

1. Rep. Charles E. “Chuck” Martin, Jr. (R-47), who sponsored this bill, HB 263, is a member of ALEC and Rep. Martin is also on ALEC’s Commerce, Insurance and Economic Development Task Force.

2. In 2009, retired teachers in Georgia were switched from the State Health Benefit Plan to Medicare Advantage (a Republican-touted Medicare plan in which the federal government subsidizes private insurance companies to implement Medicare Advantage at more cost than traditional Medicare because there is no “middle man” for profit with traditional Medicare). At that same time, Georgia’s SHBP released millions of dollars of its funds (designed to take care of the future healthcare needs of retired state employees, including retired teachers) to the state of Georgia’s General Fund, thereby depleting Georgia’s SHBP’s funds. In releasing its funds – in the millions of dollars – to Georgia’s General Fund made the SHBP’s funds more financially precarious (by design, in my opinion). Republican Governor Perdue was governor and his administration worked with the SHBP to alter retired state employees – including retired teachers – health insurance plans as far back as 2009. Moreover, at that same time, the SHBP changed from insuring retired teachers in the amount of $2 million, each, for their healthcare claims to $200., each, because the SHBP turned that insurance responsiblity – for state retired teachers healthcare claims – over to United Healthcare or CIGNA, the two private insurance companies that became part of the Medicare Advantage program in Georgia’s SHBP in 2009.

3. So, one can see that Obamacare has had nothing to do with this change in Georgia’s healthcare responsibility to retired teachers, and other retired state employees, because Obamacare was not even passed in the U.S. Congress when Georgia’s SHBP was in the process of releasing its responsibility to retired teachers and other retired state employees to Medicare Advantage’s private insurance companies, United Heathcare and CIGNA.

4. The average age of members of the Teacher Retirement System retiring today with 25+ years of service is 59.6 years, not 52 years. The median age for new members of the TRS in FY 2012 was 27 years of age, not 22 years of age. The average years of service for members of the TRS retiring today with 25+ years of service is 31.4 years, not 30 years.

5. In DeKalb County alone (including Decatur), the monthly benefits to the retired teachers of TRS is approximately $29,000,000. a month. However, the monthly economic impact to DeKalb County by those same retired teachers is approximately $50,000,000. Therefore, retired teachers give back to DeKalb County $1.70 for every $1.00 that they receive. With the winds of change constantly in flux in the economic markets, retired teachers have been the one stablizing influence, economically, in giving back to the economic growth of their communities. For example, $20.9 million in direct economic impact are supported by teacher retiress’ initial expenditures, such as food, clothing, furniture, etc., that retired teachers purchase. When retired teachers purchase these products directly, the businesses that supply these products to them, in turn, hire more employees. Moreover, $15.4 million in indirect economic impact results from these businesses purchasing additional goods and services needed from other vendors. Finally, $13.2 million in induced economic impact occurs when employees hired by businessess, as a result of both the direct and indirect impacts, make expenditures, themselves. Again, retired teachers are an economic stablizing influence on the economy in DeKalb County, just as they are in every county throughout Georgia.

6. Please take a few minutes to read the article written by Diane Ravitch, provided in the link below, about how ALEC is, and has been, attempting to privatize public education – as well as to privatize many other areas of the society besides education.

7. Part of political tactic is to divide and conquer.That tactic, evidently, has been working as can be read in the comments on this thread, in which some workers of private firms are against teachers receiving benefits, such as healthcare which are paid by the government. Actually, those private workers should be working with public workers to insure that workers in both the private and public sectors have healthcare benefits secured, especially in their older years. Do we really want a nation in which we have no Social Security in our old age, or no Medicare in our old age? Do we really want a nation which has become totally privatized in which the middle and working classes will be forced into working for wealthy CEOs for less and less income as the years go by, with less and less benefits? That type of political framework is a plutocracy, not a democracy. Our founders did not envision a plutocracy for this nation. They left Great Britain, which was controlled by a wealthy, powerful ruling class to form a democratic republic for, by, and of the people. Please wake up to the forces of wealth and power in our nation that are, today, changing our nation, stealthily but slowly and surely, to benefit primarily the wealthy CEOs of industry. This filters down to dismantling public education and dismantling other public services. Be aware. Read the link below:

http://www.alternet.org/story/155257/what_you_need_to_know_about_alec

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Another twist, you can be a teacher and over time pay $50,000. to “United Healthcare” and no doubt the state is paying another $50,000. as supplement, and then leave the teaching profession and no longer have any relationship with “United Healthcare” and they just extracted $50,000., provided little service since none was needed, and called it “health care.” Looks like a win for them.

Yeahhhh baby. #1!

UnitedHealth Group
CEO-to-employee pay ratio: 1,737:1

CEO: Stephen J. Hemsley

United Health Care CEO salary plus stock options:
$109 million plus 99 million in stock options!!!! This was in 2009.

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ME, interesting comments. Thanks.

A simple problem with the TRS is folks retiring on grossly inflated six figure salaries from their supervisory jobs, and then enjoying annual retirement benefits for 30 years that exceed the yearly salaries of most teachers actually working. Getting a handle on that might help the entire system operate better.

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2008 PBS 1-hour program comparing different health care systems in the world. http://video.pbs.org/video/1050712790/

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It is always notible how state legislators and Deal want to cut the salaries and benefits of other state employees, but not their own.

If the state is that financially dire, let them lead by example – beginning NOW.

This state and this country have been going backwards on financial matters because of fuzzy-headed thinking like this -the kind of thinking that has led, and is leading, to financial collapse.

An economy is created by the circulation of money, not the withdrawal of it.

Retirements and benefits are a huge part of that economy.

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MaryElizabeth is convinced (yet again) that ALEC is under her bed at night?

Time to remind everyone that the union drum she’s beating is paid for by all those members of the union’s local manifestation: the Georgia Association of Educators. The extra $168 they cough up yearly for the “honor” of being in the NEA bankrolls that union’s partisan-Democrat politics.

ref: http://goo.gl/rtJIZ and http://goo.gl/bNdPt

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@ Edugator, 12:40 pm

You are most welcome.
—————————————————————————————-

@ Google NEA

I must have struck a nerve because I have alerted the public to the fact that Rep. Chuck Martin, the sponsor of HB 263, is a member of ALEC’s Commerce, Insurance, and Economic Development Task Force.

I simply think for myself, and I always have. No one pays me to voice my opinions.

Readers, again, please read the excellent article, which exposes the intent of ALEC, in the link I provided at the end of my previous post.

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If there is any justice about the goals of ALEC, it is this; the downward results of it will affect the children of those who are promoting it just it will affect the children of those who oppose it.

Simply because children are born into comfort doesn’t mean they will themselves always live in comfort.

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NEA bluh bluh, If you think we’ve got capitalism today, you left out the part about competition, in a system of competitive capitalism. Btw in european business schools, they teach that there is no such thing as a free market whereas in the US, you get the simpleton’s version at college. Free Market Capitalsim, you know, like Microsoft Windows. That make be a little too complex a concept for you, your single-company per market “free market” communism.

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NEA bluh bluh, Who do you pay for internet service, Company A, or… Company A? Now, go and lecture me about markets, you freedom fighter, you.

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@ Puerile Citizen: Have your psychiatrist review your medication dosage. Really.

@Google “NEA”: If you’re fairly new here, the above character has a long and boorish history of taking up column inches—apparently as therapy? Most of us ignore him. You should, too.

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10:10 When you spend ten minutes working as an educator, kindly inform so that one may provide you support. Meanwhile, commence harpiness on various libertarian perspectives circa Sarah Palin 2008. I get it now. You two want to keep your $10. in your wallet and pay no taxes and call it “civic concern.” You’ve got that “Bill O’Reilly logic” thing down.

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Dennis, There’s an old anecdote about the proper Asian businessman who moves the family away from all they know and ancient family connections to move to the USA for executive business reasons, and the daughter ends up rebelling and becoming a drug addict / stripper. Sounds harsh, but it is an existent anecdote. Know of at least on “very proper power family” where the kid goes haywire. Ever seen a thirty year old with severe shaking hands from alcoholic withdrawal delerium tremens? the “DTs” usually reserved for “old people?” You’re right, children of these families pay pay pay.

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10:10, Oh wow, that is first news to me. Thank you for providing context.

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Or if you prefer to read it in French, as written by the author. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5711

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OH NO!!!! The Movie with no subtitles and voice-over in SPANISH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFs0LCnW-lM

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It is somewhat disheartening to realize that the issue of maintaining benefits for retired public school teachers means so little to Private Citizen that he/she fills up this blog with unrelated chitchat, and squabbles endlessly with 10:10 am.

It makes a difference to the teachers, if not to you.

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Original Prof, I am prime recipient exhibit A of these very “benefits,” but I do not believe that teachers should have a a health care system that students and parents (or the plumber.. or auto mechanic.. or brick layer… or window washer) do not get. That’s what I believe and it comes first for me before my own comfort. I do not do that “you’re either in or you’re out” system of public services. I guess “I’m out” until the USA joins the rest of the rich world – the other 99 countries, and everybody gets a fair serving. Meanwhile, no want to exploit. Sometimes I say, “I was raised in the church and apparently I’m the only one who takes it seriously.” The meek shall inherit the earth, haven’t you heard? Meek – like me. (that’s supposed to be a joke).

And really, I do not like being around teacher peers who have their behind covered and therefore have zero political mind on the topic, I’m sure that you agree. When was the last time you knew of a teacher getting paid health care supplement who gave a cat-litter-box about anyone else who does not have the same “arrangement?”

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Original Prof, Actually, the novel Germinal is pretty darn central to any conversation about the haves and the have-nots, if anyone actually cares to be literate and have a point of reference. As in, it is maybe the most important single work on the subject in 100 years? I did not post it out of irrelevance to the topic.

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Excerpt from my 12:20 p.m. post:

“Part of political tactic is to divide and conquer.That tactic, evidently, has been working as can be read in the comments on this thread, in which some workers of private firms are against teachers receiving benefits, such as healthcare, which are paid by the government. Actually, those private sector workers should be working with public sector workers to insure that workers in both the private and public sectors have healthcare benefits secured for themselves, especially in their older years.

Do we really want a nation in which we have no Social Security in our old age, or no Medicare in our old age? Do we really want a nation which has become totally privatized in which the middle and working classes will be forced into working for wealthy CEOs for less and less income as the years go by, with fewer and fewer benefits? That type of political framework is called a plutocracy, not a democracy.”
===============================================

Bill Moyers: “Left unanswered, where does this vast inequality take America?”
One of the journalists who answers Moyers’ question is Chrystia Freeland, author of the recently published book, “Plutocrats: The Rise of the New Global Super-Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else.”

View Freeland’s response in video below, entitled, “Full Show: Plutocracy Rising.”

Link: http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-plutocracy-rising/

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@ Private Citizen.

I think that Zola’s novel “Germinal” is not so relevant to the discussion here as Aesop’s “Fables,” specifically the dog in the manger: he could not eat the straw in the manger himself, but he did his best to keep the other animals from eating it.

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Thank you for your 9:24 p.m. post, Original Prof.

I would only add that this attempt to take away medical insurance from retired teachers is happening not only in Georgia’s legislature, but also in Republican-dominated state legislatures throughout the nation. It is a highly orchestrated effort, imo, and it is only one part of the Republican ideological movement which has been pushing, for decades, to dismantle governmental benefits and programs that have served middle and working class families well. Government programs have helped upward mobility of the classes, in years past, in our nation. Today, upward mobility for the classes is almost at a standstill.

“In the 1970s the rishest Americans possessed about 9 percent of the nation’s total wealth. By the mid-2000s, that number had jumped to almost 25 percent. One particularly staggering statistic Freeland offers is that in 2005, the income of two men, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, nearly equaled the wealth of the entire bottom 40 percent of the U.S. population (some 120 million people). Meanwhile, CEO slaries have skyrocketed while average workers’ pay has barely budged. In the 1970s, CEOs made about twenty-five times the salary of their average employee. Today, the ratio is 230:1. This despite the fact that American workers are more productive than they have been in decades. . . .The wealthy have succeeded in skewing the rules in their favor. ‘America’s super-elite,’ Freeland asserts, ‘has been particularly effective at using the tools of a political democracy to protect its minority privilege.’ ”

From: “How the Rich Hurt the Rest of Us” (A review of “Plutocrats: The Rise of the New Global Super-Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else” by Chrystia Freeland) by Jake Whitney, “The Progressive,” March, 2013, p. 44

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@Google/NEA – You constantly harp on about unions but I have to wonder why you never address the fact that the states which are unionized almost always are the ones that are most successful when it comes to educating our students while the states that are right to work usually lag at the bottom of heap. Why do you think that is? Why portray unions as the big bogeyman? Looks like you are trying to create the straw man here while, at the same time, sounding like an obsessive maniac.

I have to wonder if you were around in the late 1800’s – early 1900’s would you have decried the unions for their work to end child labor (how dare the unions stop little Johnny from working in the mill-it builds character); help in the fight to gain the vote for woman (what? they want to have a say in running the country they live in-they should stay in the kitchen and not worry their tiny, little heads with such manly stuff); help to secure a working week for the workforce with weekends off (I can’t believe that people can be so lazy and want to have time off with their families. How dare they steal this valuable time from the kind and generous man who agreed to employ them). I could go on but I think you get the gist.

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My argument for those who see teachers as ‘takers’ undeserving of health care benefits is this. I have never earned a ‘bonus’ for performing my job well. Stock options or profit sharing are not available to me when my ‘company’ (school system) does well. Over the 33 years that I’ve been teaching I’ve seen the employer contributions to healthcare drop significantly and I’ve absorbed more and more of the cost. I earn now what many in the private sector earn in their first 5 years on the job. Don’t talk to me about paying my fair share like everyone else unless you’re willing to pay me a wage that’s comparable to what ‘everyone else’ is earning.

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Mary Elizabeth, the problem with Moyers is that he does the soft voice NPR drone. I’ve seen him speak in person, too. Excellent journalism, but his call to action is about like sending you to the sleep store for a new pillow !!! Anyone more direct would not get any bandwidth from the major medias.

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That was in ‘08, which would put it right… at… about… 400k for today…
http://www.atlantaunfiltered.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/advance-education-inc-2009.pdf

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@ Mary Elizabeth

“Brevity is the soul of wit” William Shakespeare

for the love the God, enough already. please take your nonsensical utopian socialist ramblings to the daily kos, move one , or even hannity.

its taking more and more time to scroll past them to get to cogent comments. and at my age, its time I don’t have to waste.

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@ blabney feignsworth

Reality check: After Puerile Citizen, you are the worst offender when it comes to cranking out non-cogent ramblings the rest of us scroll past.

You both should get a life. Preferably far from an Internet connection.

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What’s emminating from the governor and the state legislature is wealth envy/retirement envy of teachers and state employees.

These politicians didn’t want to be teachers because it didn’t pay enough and they thought they were going to make a killing in politics and the business world.

A low paying teachers job was not for them. They were all going to become independently wealthy!

And, somehow, that wealth didn’t happen, so they’re taking their frustrations out on teachers and other state employees by getting at their retirements and health benefits.

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bootney farnsworth, 7:56 a.m.

What you must understand is that I do not write simply for you. In fact, it is precisely in the heart of the Conservative South – which often is not exposed to the progressive thoughts which I post – where my thoughts most need to be communicated. Obviously, you do not share my vision. However, know that your insults do not concern me. They reflect more upon the quality of your mind than they do upon mine.

“It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.” ― William Shakespeare

I plan to continue attempting to alter the destiny of this state and this nation for the better, through my voice. As for my perceptions of you, I’ll quote another line from Shakespeare, from “Hamlet,” “The (man) doth protest too much, methinks.”

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@ OP

you’re right -I stand corrected. I’m in the same boat.

I just don’t trust the state one iota not to raid us at some point, or at least try to.

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Let me highlight one sentence from Original Prof’s 1:18 p.m. post:

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“$1.1 billion has been cut from the SHBP funding during FY 2008, FY 2009 and 10 months of FY 1010.”
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That number ($1.1 billion dollars) is a staggering amount of money to be cut from the funds of the SHBP for just under three years of time. That was during the same period of time that retired teachers (and other retired state employees) were switched – without having a voice in the process even though they paid the premiums for their medical care – from traditional Medicare, in which the SHBP paid the other 20% cost for claims that traditional Medicare does not cover, to Medicare Advantage, a nationally Republican-touted plan.

A few months after this change occurred when I had called the SHBP to inquire about it, a representative of the SHBP told me that there might come a time in the future in which it would be more advantageous for state retirees to leave the SHBP, return to traditional Medicare, and find their own supplemental carrier for the 20% cost for claims not covered by traditional Medicare.

It seems to me that removing state retirees from the SHBP has been the intention of the leaders in the Republican government of this state, and the leaders of the SHBP, since Georgia has returned to electing Republican governors. Shame on Georgia’s SHBP for deserting your long-standing previous promise to retired state employees – because of your commitment to an extreme Libertarian ideology that benefits the very wealthy and powerful of this state and nation at the expense of the hard-working, and even dedicated, public servants, in their old age, no less.

Young teachers, I think it is time for you to begin the process of securing a real teacher’s union in the state of Georgia. It is, also, time to re-elect a Democratic governor and Democratic legislators who will demonstrate that they support public education in this state, and that they respect and support Georgia’s public school teachers.

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@ Pride and Joy. I agree with you that “healthcare is enormously expensive,” especially when you’re elderly and retired. That’s why public school teachers and their schools were willing to make monthly payments into their HBSP for decades to be sure that they would be covered. THEIR OWN MONEY. It is not whining to complain greatly when the state takes away that money, uses it for their own purposes, and then the retired teachers don’t have what they were paying when they need it.

THEY paid for their retirement healthcare in advance. So stop whining about “paying $650 a month,” when you didn’t have to pay in advance for it.

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PS Original Prof, my idea of a health care plan is like when the doctor was summoned to see Emily Dickinson and she came to the upstairs bannister, looked down at the doctor, and then turned away, refusing to grant him an audience.

I don’t even like going to the doctor. It is such an insulting rip-off no matter who is paying for it. If I ever get so sick that it matters, just bury me. Although in my family the tradition is cremation. Sir, I am aware of the conditions in this country, and I live in those conditions.

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You can buy a good bicycle for $650., although you don’t need twelve of them in a year.

I recommend eating a lot of carrots. There is a difference in quality of carrots, if you care to notice. The good ones have much vitality, available at only one high end “market” store where I live. I bend over as much as possible; you can’t buy limberness. School teaching can kill you, standing all day and never bending over. I moved a thousand bricks last week, completely enjoyable, six or seven at a time. Lots of bending, picking them up and setting them down.

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I’ve been curious to understand what happened to SHBP’s reserves in 2009 that led to its 2012 bankruptcy. My sources here are the AJC, Atlanta Progressive News, and Creative Loafing. SHBP is more than 50 years old, begun in 1962. As with the state’s policemen and firemen, its public teachers have always been promised that although their salaries would be modest, their retirement pensions and healthcare would be guaranteed.

As explained above, the state government’s OPEB responsibilities for years have required that state and local agencies put aside money to cover SHBP’s retirement healthcare benefits. But from 2008-2010, the state only set aside 4% of its healthcare retirement benefits liability. In 2008 and 2009 as the recession spread, the governor and Legislature approved reductions in the amount that state agencies and the Board of Education were required to contribute into the fund.

In 2009 the state had a $2 billion shortfall in tax revenues. The General Assembly made $1 billion in budget cuts; and in March the AJC reported that the state’s budget plans would probably deplete the reserve fund for the SHBP by June of 2010. Perdue dipped into the state’s own reserve funds: he took $50 million in 2009 and $408 million in 2010. He also took most of the millions that SHBP had in its reserves. ALL of these reserve funds were put into the state’s general fund, including what the teachers had been putting aside in SHBP for all those years.

And once the state had found this source of money in the SHBP reserves, they just kept on taking it. They didn’t fund the SHBP either.

And that is how Georgia broke its long-held word of honor that it had given to at least five decades of public school teachers when they were employed.

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Thank you for the inspiring reporting and beautiful photos! I have a question: how do the
mothers arrange their clothing to breastfeed so discreetly? I ask because here in the UK
some immigrant mothers find it hard to wear their traditional clothes and also feed the
baby – especially if they wear the shalwar kameez. I’m amazed because they must have been
designed for breastfeeding – but it seems the latest fashions are for a tight fitting,
long tunic. The shawl part of the sari looks very practical – but what do they wear
underneath and what options are there? Many thanks for any light you can shine on this!

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