Here are the legal arguments for why govenor can’t oust DeKalb school board. Are you swayed?
I attended the three-hour federal court hearing Friday in which the attorney for the DeKalb school board challenged the constitutionality of the state law that Gov. Deal used to suspend six school board members this week.
DeKalb County schools were placed on probation by the accreditation agency SACS in December. In response to that probation and because of cited problems with how the school board operates, Gov. Nathan Deal moved to suspend six of the nine members, as the State Board of Education had recommended after a grueling 14-hour hearing on Feb. 21. He relied on a law that went into effect in the spring of 2011.
The DeKalb board filed suit to block the removals, arguing that the law is illegal and full of inconsistencies. Former DA Bob Wilson contended that the law was contradictory, flawed and unfair to those snagged by it. “You have a sense people are flying by the seat of their pants to figure this out,” said Wilson.
The question is whether those flaws are lethal or whether an appeals process built into the law mitigates some of them.
The law is already under siege by six suspended Sumter County school board members, who retain their seats while their court case awaits a hearing.
U.S. District Court Judge Richard Story — impressive in his comments about how seriously he takes this case and how he spent eight hours the night before reading documents submitted by Wilson — is attempting to move decisively so DeKalb schools are not stuck in limbo. But Story said he wants to be thorough.
Story said he will decide this case on the legal merits of the law rather than on the accusations against the DeKalb school board by its accrediting agency, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.
“I don’t expect this to be a terribly exciting hearing. My responsibility is to determine whether the constitution of the United States or the state of Georgia is being violated,” he said. “I understand the impact my decision can have on a multitude of children. Let me assure you that I am going to give this the time it needs.”
The hearing was a battle of Decatur legal titans as both Wilson and the attorney representing the state, assistant attorney general Stefan Ritter, live within blocks of each other.
Wilson argued that the board members were treated as a group under the law and there was no clear sense of what they had done wrong, no access to the unnamed sources quoted in the SACs report and no identified standards under which the State Board of Education judged them as wanting.
Ritter countered that the law offers due process to the six suspended board members becasue there is an appeals process under which they can ask the governor for their jobs back. He also argued that there has been no irreparable harm to the six, who, under the law, continue to be paid.
The audience for the hearing was mostly press and attorneys, including three lawyers from DeKalb’s general counsel and two from the state Department of Education. But there was one blast from the past, former DeKalb CEO Vernon Jones, who sat behind me.
I heard Jones debate the lawsuit with two DeKalb mothers sitting next to him. He told the women that the law “overturned the will of the people.”
The only testimony came from Bonnie Holliday, who now heads the Charter Schools Commission but testified in her prior capacity as the head of the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement.
She gave a basic primer on accreditation and why it is important, explaining that a loss of accreditation undermines the ability of high school students to get into colleges and earn scholarships.
(My view: It doesn’t make sense for college admissions and scholarships to be casualties of an accreditation loss since accreditation status in Georgia has little to do with a system’s academic performance. It focuses solely on how smoothly and effectively the school board operates.)
Wilson noted that SACS didn’t even consider academics when it reviewed DeKalb’s status. He cited the standards in the SACS report.
“None of those standards addresses academic achievement,” Wilson told Holliday. In fact, Wilson, one of two investigators appointed by Gov. Perdue to lead the statewide probe of CRCT cheating, pointed out that DeKalb saw greater gains last year on the CRCT than the state average and showed improvement in 24 of 30 areas.
That may be, said Holliday, but her own quick review of DeKalb’s data showed neither significant improvements nor decline in scores over the last five years.
Here is a summation of the problems that Wilson and his associate Stephen G. Quinn cited in the law. Please note that these are not my contentions. This is a summary of the attorney presentations:
Under the constitution, it’s the citizens who live in a county who have the right to choose who is going to represent them on the school board. Local control is a paramount principle in k-12 education.
Board members have constitutional status. The state constitution guarantees an elected local school board. There are three ways a school board member can be removed under the constitution.
1. Recall for malfeasance, which is an ethical or legal violation. 2. A felony indictment for a malfeasance related to their office. 3. Conviction of any felony.
While the constitution allows the state to provide for additional qualifications for office, it does not allow for additional causes to remove school board members. And those qualifications are usually practical matters of residency, citizenship, age and education.
The legislative branch, the General Assembly, cannot hand a power, removing the school board, over to the executive branch, the governor.
The six members suspended were elected by margins of 51 to 74 percent by DeKalb voters.
It is a privilege of citizenship to be able to vote, run for office and hold office. Taking any of those privileges away requires due process, which was denied to the DeKalb board.
By using SACS probation as a trigger under which the governor can then oust a school board, the state has given a private, unregulated and unelected agency great power. “There is no oversight except their own,” said Wilson. “They make the rules of their game. I am not sure anywhere else in the law — federal or state — so much power is delegated to an unregulated private agency outside government.”
The state Board of Education, in its 14 hour hearing on whether to recommend suspension, had no clear standards by which to decide whether the DeKalb board had, in fact, done something wrong. Each state board member applied her or his own standards. And they debated for only a few minutes before they voted. Only four board members spoke about why they wanted to suspend and each offered a different rationale.
“The hearing officer never gave any instructions on the standard that had to be met,” said Wilson. “What are the rules? Nobody told me.”
The burden was supposed to be on the state to show why the six members ought to be suspended, but Wilson said, “With all due respect to the state, it’s hogwash.”
One of the inconsistencies in the law that Wilson cited is one we’ve discussed here: The law calls for the removal of all board members, which the state stressed at a hearing in January. The governor must remove all the DeKalb board members or none, stressed the state attorney at the January state board meeting.
Yet, the state opened the Feb, 21 hearing by announcing that the three newly elected members were off the hook. In its rebuttal to Wilson, Ritter did not get into the sudden reversal on that point, only saying it was “a gift to their side” that the three newly elected members were not losing their seats.
“All this is saying is that something is getting lost in the process and it’s due process,” said Wilson.
Wilson also hammered the lack of details in the SACS report, noting that allegations against the board came from unnamed sources and that SACS does not keep the notes from its review team interviews. “We did not get a chance to confront witnesses,” said Wilson.
Anticipating the state’s rejoinder that DeKalb board members had 14 hours before the state board to make their case, Wilson said, “Just because you were there for a long time doesn’t mean it was done right.”
Wilson also blasted SACS for the misinformation in its report, including the contention that DeKalb could not account for $12 million in textbooks and that many schools lacked Internet. DeKalb, he said, “has been beat up pretty badly on wrong facts from SACS.”
He criticized the head of SACS, Mark Elgart, for denying that the SACS review relied on hearsay. “He’s too smart to say that, but he did,” said Wilson. He noted that he got Elgart to admit during the Feb. 21 hearing that SACS had no records, tapes or videos of the interviews of witnesses who made allegations against the board, thus denying Wilson the opportunity to question the statements.
“He has no records. There is no way we could do it,” said Wilson.
And he questioned the “en masse” approach of the law, which he charges paints the entire board with the same brush. He noted that the state board didn’t even ask three of the six members about any wrongdoing.
But Ritter countered that it was appropriate to treat the board as a group in assessing their governance record because “the actions of the board reach all.”
Through the appeals process, Ritter said, “They will have another day in court. They got a process and they are going to get more if they want it.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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155 comments Add your comment
Dr. John Trotter
March 2nd, 2013
10:42 pm
Thanks again for the many kind words. Col. Jack, I left you off unintentionally earlier. Thanks. Thanks too to catlady (note that I didn’t capitalize the “c” because you don’t! Ha!), Fred in DeKalb, Shek, and Paulo977. Paulo, I am now going to go watch the video. Thanks again, guys!
Truth in Moderation
March 2nd, 2013
10:45 pm
“The question becomes what is an adequate education?”
A good point. One of the reasons the Compulsory Education Law is itself, unconstitutional.
“the state defined an an inadequate education for students as one where the school system that oversees and directly responsible for that education must satisfy certain criteria. That criteria is defined by the state to be accreditation by SACS.”
NOT TRUE. The law uses the term “accreditation.”
These questions must be answered: What is the LEGAL DEFINITION of “accreditation” as used in the law. How many “accrediting” agencies were sent RFP’s and what was the winning bid? Were any anti-trust laws violated in this process?
Also, there are underlying Constitutional principles which cannot be violated. The Governor, the executive branch, does not have Constitutional authority in this matter. The new law is in obvious violation of the Constitution and should be struck down.
IF NORTH DEKALB CAN’T CHANGE THE SCHOOL BOARD LAWFULLY, THEN HOME SCHOOL OR USE A PRIVATE SCHOOL. Don’t trample on MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. This is NOT about the children, but about MONEY. YOU do the HARD work of helping ALL of your county have good schools.
Why not MOVE to South DeKalb and run for school board office THERE? Put your kids in THOSE schools and volunteer to bring THOSE schools up? Don’t like these ideas? Your CONSTITUTIONAL CHOICES are home school, private school, status quo, or MOVE. OVERTHROWING THE CONSTITUTION ISN’T ONE OF THEM!
Dr. John Trotter
March 2nd, 2013
10:50 pm
I think that I was multi-tasking when I provided the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer link. I provided a link to my father’s obituary, not the article that the newspaper did on him the day after he died. By the way, the minister wore an Auburn tie, although he is a Dog fan, to the funeral, in honor of my father. Ha! I too am a Bulldog, but grew up a Tiger. Here is the link…
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2013/02/26/2399228/dennie-trotter-beloved-educator.html
Dekalbite
March 2nd, 2013
11:06 pm
““None of those standards addresses academic achievement,” Wilson told Holliday. In fact, Wilson, one of two investigators appointed by Gov. Perdue to lead the statewide probe of CRCT cheating, pointed out that DeKalb saw greater gains last year on the CRCT than the state average and showed improvement in 24 of 30 areas.”
I guess you can make stuff up all you want, but here are the CRCT scores in DeKalb compared to other school systems in metro Atlanta. These figures came directly from the AJC courtesy of the Georgia Deparrtmentof Education. As a matter of fact, these numbers came from the AJC spreadsheets on each school system – simply a matter of copy and paste. Decide if Wilson was telling the truth based on the actual numbers:
http://dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/shocking/
sneak peak into education
March 2nd, 2013
11:10 pm
Hi Maureen,
I was hoping to get your attention about something I recently read about education in Georgia. We, along with at least 6 other states, have agreed to let big business owned by Gates and Murdoch get access to private data on our school children that is normally protected by FERPA laws. I am extremely concerned that we are selling our souls to the devils by giving them such a privilege. And for what gain? So that they can get access to information that will allow them to turn our kids into prime marketing realty to businesses who want to sell them (and/or parents) goods and services based on their test scores etc…. How is this even legal? Please to an expose and let the rest of the parents in Georgia know that their children are being exploited for the gain on big business. I want to know can I opt out and, if so, how do I do it?
Truth in Moderation
March 2nd, 2013
11:13 pm
My condolences, Dr. Trotter.
“Dan Trotter said he thought his father might like to best be remembered “as a man of integrity.”"
What a wonderful tribute to your father! “A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold. Rich and poor have this in common: The LORD is the Maker of them all.” Prov 22:1-2
Maureen Downey
March 2nd, 2013
11:26 pm
@DeKalb, Wilson was using statewide numbers so you need to plot DeKalb’s scores against the state average, not metro Atlanta. And he is talking about gains.
Maureen
Dr. John Trotter
March 3rd, 2013
12:00 am
Thanks, Truth in Moderation. I truly appreciate your words of encouragement. I think that I have held up so reasonably well is because of the many prayers of others. The presence of my sons, my family, and many friends helped immensely.
Dr. John Trotter
March 3rd, 2013
12:01 am
I hope that you guys will forgive me for indulging once more to talk about my father. But, he truly was the best “school man” whom I have ever known. Kind, strong, gracious, loving, humble, consistent, caring, but also wielded the “board of education” firmly. Ha! One of my close friends, as I mentioned earlier, said that “Mr. Trotter took liberty on my rear end,” but Bubba Boone said that my father straightened him out. Bubba, by the way, went on to be a star athlete (quarterback of the football team) and the homerun slugger of the baseball team which won the State, beating the old Briarcliff of DeKalb in the Championship series. Bubba was typical of many kids. On Facebook, people were giving my father great tributes and talking about how they loved and respected him and regaling about the paddlings that he administered on them. When he got very old, many 70 year old men would come up to him in restaurants and ask if he remembered them (he hardly forgot any), he would jokingly ask them to turn around and let him see their rear end! Then, he would say that he remembered them! Ha!
This was how it was when schools were well run and you had tight discipline in the schools. One lady on Facebook lovingly stated that Mr. Trotter probably paddled every male student in the school (an exaggeration). But, the kids walked the line. We all needed that strong discipline and appreciated it. I remember seeing a man well over 70 come up to Daddy in Burger King and asking, “Mr. Trotter, do you remember when you tore my behind up when I came to school without socks on one day?” He was laughing and was, quite frankly, proud that he was able to regale in a story of being disciplined/paddled and brought back in line. Today, we call the cops when the kids get out of line. Or, for lighter stuff, we send them home. Now don’t get me wrong: For big stuff, kids have to be sent home. And, if the student is endangering other students or engaging in havoc, then the Police sometimes have to be called in. So much of the penny-ante stuff could be dealt with by administering “the board of education” to the back side. It was done for hundreds of years, but now our educrats have gotten so sophisticated that they are “educated idiots” (to quote my father again). Sometimes he would say that someone was so “open-minded that all of his brains fell out.” He told the minister to tell the people not to pay any attention to the shell (his dead body) because the nut has already gone! He loved a good joke!
A few minutes ago, I looked at the Legacy website where people have left very touching condolences and memories of my father. I noted that Harold (Spec) Richardson left a tribute, saying that my father was one of the greatest guys he has ever known. They were good friends in high school. “Spec” (as everyone called him) was really too little to play football, but he was the Manager of the sports teams at Jordan Vocational High School. Spec was so good at doing the schedules for the coaches and managing the tickets sales for the game that when he graduated from Jordan, the Columbus Cardinals minor league team offered him a job. This little kid from Jordan (and one of father best friends) eventually became one of the biggest men in Major League Baseball. He became the General Manager of the Houston Astros and later of the San Francisco Giants. By the way, I don’t think that Spec Richardson ever had time to go to college. He was too busy being successful. College is not for everyone, even if you are smart as a whip like Mr. Richardson.
What does all of this have to do with DeKalb County Schools? Perhaps nothing…and perhaps a lot. How do we straighten out the DeKalb County Schools? How would Daniel D. Trotter straighten out the DeKalb County Schools? The first thing that he would do is establish discipline and order…and send forth the trumpet sound to students and parents alike that he was going to support the DeKalb County teachers. Now he expected you to do your job, and if you didn’t, you wouldn’t last too long where my father was a principal. But as he often said, all of the bells and whistles about the curriculum don’t matter “worth a hill of beans” (to use his phrase) if you don’t have discipline in place. The kids have to know that they are not in charge. This is what is wrong with our public (and note that I make a distinction between public and private) schools today; the students think (and often are) in charge. That doesn’t work. When the order collapses, then all h*ll breaks loose. This is the state of the DeKalb School System today.
Is the answer to do away with democracy in DeKalb? No, this won’t help any, and this is not the American way. This is wrong. What is right is trying to find someone (and it probably won’t be one of those gypsy superintendents) who can and is willing to get the schools back in order. He or she doesn’t have to walk down the halls with a baseball bat, but he or she has to set the tone that the kids are not in charge and that the teachers will be supported and respected. My father was a “teacher advocate” if I have ever seen one. His teachers adored him. I was rummaging through some of his old boxes a year or two ago and ran across some letters that my father’s teachers had written to him when they heard that he was retiring. They were the sweetest sentiments and thanks for his unfailing support for them through the years. Now when many principals announce their plans to retire, the teachers secretly give high fives. This is the difference in having good and effective schools and schools which are teetering on disaster at any moment.
Thanks for letting me walk down memory lane.
http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/ledger-enquirer/guestbook.aspx?n=daniel-trotter&pid=163338833
Dr. John Trotter
March 3rd, 2013
12:02 am
Typo above: I think that [the reason] I have held up so well…
Chamblee Dad
March 3rd, 2013
12:11 am
This reminds me of something I often heard in Constitutional Law classes in law school: “HARD CASES MAKE BAD LAW.” If there was ever an example of this rule, this is it. That is, IF this law is used at this time, in its current form, under these facts, to remove this board.
Just because in your mind the only right/ethical/moral/acceptable outcome is for this board to be removed, doesn’t mean it should happen this way, using this law.
I agree with most here that this board & its actions, taken collectively after the past several years, culminating in the current situation, this board in its current form, this board is the poster child of a dysfunctional board, in both actions & results. Taken as a whole.
But I don’t see how any elected official can be legally removed from office without any specific allegations of individual wrongdoing that would rise to the level of being removed from any other elected office, speaking primarily of Jester, Speaks & I guess Edler too (can’t say I think much of her, but I’m not aware of anything that suggests that she, by her own actions, should be removed).
On top of that the work of SACS is questionable on many levels. Not only is its criteria & process dubious at best, if there was ever a board that you should be able to build an airtight case against, it’s this one. Their unethical/incompetent behaviour has been chronicled in excruciating detail for years. What they produced certainly wouldn’t fly in criminal court. “The glove doesn’t fit” as it’s been said.
So the problem in cases like this is you get 2 possible results:
1 – the correct Consitutional one, in this case finding the law cannot be used by the Governor to remove this board. Perhaps it can be amended to pass Constitutional muster for future use, or perhaps a better case can be built against all board members. BUT this outcome is very unsatisfactory to many. As in criminal cases where a clearly guilty person is allowed to go free due to a “technicality.” The Constitution isn’t a technicality.
2 – trying to avoid such a problematic or “wrong by most appearances” result, a judge makes a ruling based on convoluted and twisted restatement of the facts to produce what is the “right” decision. The board is removed, but using a legal mechanism that will ultimately be ruled unconsitutional & perhaps overturned on appeal.
Based on what I’ve read & learned – I think we are getting #1. Legally, I think we should. If so, then what? Another question entirely.
Truth in Moderation
March 3rd, 2013
12:17 am
@Maureen, you said:
“As for the counties you mentioned, Gwinnett has the opposite situation — a school board that goes along with the school chief on everything he wants. That works with the right school chief. It could be a different story with the wrong one.”
You failed to recount the unique way Gwinnett got its current school chief. The CITIZENS did the hard work. They didn’t like the planned OBE takeover of their schools, and in fighting it tooth and nail, that super was forced to resign. The same citizens got new school board members elected who would keep OBE out. They didn’t stop there. When the new Board fell prey to the gypsy head hunters in finding a replacement super, THE CITIZENS did THEIR due diligence AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, and found out that the new out-of-state super had a shady past. The detailed expose was given to the (competing) newspapers, and under public pressure, he too was let go. They finally hired a native son with a well known track record. He is still there, and Gwinnett hasn’t had quite the drama DeKalb and others have had. THERE IS A REASON THEY GET ALONG!
Dr. John Trotter
March 3rd, 2013
12:20 am
Chamblee Dad, I agree with your very cogent analysis. I think that some people have been thinking that I have been defending the actions of the DeKalb Board of Education. I haven’t. Anyone can read the MACE website or my personal blog and see that I have been perhaps its worst critic. But, I have said all along that I am first a Constitutionalist.
Chamblee Dad
March 3rd, 2013
12:22 am
@Dr. John Trotter “The first thing that he would do is establish discipline and order…and send forth the trumpet sound to students and parents alike that he was going to support the DeKalb County teachers.” discipline . . . order . . . support teachers . . . Sweet words indeed. The more and quicker the better.
dekalbite@Maureen
March 3rd, 2013
1:05 am
I saw that in his statement, but that is the point. DeKalb is a metro Atlanta school system. Why would Wilson not compare our students’ gains against the gains of the other metro systems? When it comes to property values and choosing where to live in metro Atlanta, no one with school age children says they want to live in DeKalb because the scores are higher than some of the rural school systems in south Georgia. They compare the achievement scores (more often that rates of achievement) of the metro school systems.
If they cannot afford private school, most likely parents choose where to live in the metro area based on the school system achievement (and rates of achievement) which are (and always have been even before NCLB) important for parents seeking a residence in Atlanta. Many parents will make that longer commute from Gwinnett or Cherokee to ensure their child is in a good school system.
To be fair, DeKalb students in the affluent areas have some of the highest scores in the state. It is the students in the low income schools (Title 1) that have the lowest rate of achievement and also the Students with Disabilities. A student in a Title 1 school in DeKalb or a DeKalb student with a Disability has a better chance of making adequate yearly progress in other metro systems like Gwinnett or Rockdale for example than in DeKalb based on the percentage of Title 1 schools that achieve adequate yearly progress in these three systems.
Wilson is being quite disingenuous in his remarks regarding DeKalb student achievement. Yes. There were gains in all metro area school systems (and all over the state) including some gains in DeKalb, but compared to all of the other metro systems and in particular the achievement level of our Title 1 schools to other metro area school system Title 1 school systems, our rate of gains was less. It’s as if our students were walking while other metro systems have students who are jogging or running.
TM
March 3rd, 2013
1:37 am
“Story said he will decide this case on the legal merits of the law rather than on the accusations against the DeKalb school board by its accrediting agency, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.”
So….as Wilson (jd earlier and Chamblee Dad) argue…the “merits of the law” appear to fail to support removal from office on too many levels. – constitutionally, due process, and testimony that was relied upon amounting to hearsay. It seems to come back to a political decision a deal ( no pun intended) to resolve the matter, because the court decision has no required affect on the accreditation process. Presumably, the accreditation process cannot be resolved without a ( credible) board. A protracted legal battle and suspended board would then seem to make the state and governor at least partially culpable for a loss in accreditation.
My hope is that at a partial deal would allow not damage the students in DCSS, by distraction or reputation.: 1) allow a credible board to have a reasonable shot at removing the probation status and avoid a loss in accreditation, 2) allow the law to be fully tested by both parties WITHOUT DCSS remaining entangled, 3) State BoE standards and oversight for SACS, and 4) if the state loses, reinstatement of DCSS BoE ( from suspension).
African proverb: “When elephants play, the grass is damaged.”. Let’s not let the battle of the titans, result in more damage to our students.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
1:49 am
People need to listen to Dr. Trotter. I’m a Republcan, anti-teaching-union guy. Sr. Trotter has good messages.
Where do we differ? I don’t think collective salaries-and-benefits is in order. I think individual teachers proving their worth is in order. Now, who are their salary-and-beneits judges? Ahh, that is THE QUESTION.
The unionists charge that private-rulers are hatcheters, the corporatists charge that unionists are feather-bedders. Pardon, me, but as far as I see it, this is a class-hate fight. In the long run the lower classes win by taking down the upper classes. The result is mostly poverty and population diminution, who cares?
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
2:00 am
Maureen doesn’t want to lose a daughter, much less both. There may not be a choice. I have three kids. We may lose two, hopefully no, and hopefully not any. lf all, I didn’t ensure my bloodline’s survival. My hat’s off to white trailer trash, and black ghetto trash, and Mexican invaders, for making survivors.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
2:13 am
For my doctorate, they made me sleep 3 hours a night. Often less. Medical training was a torture chamber. Like when you have to arrive at 7 AM on Sunday, you take emergencies at 3 AM on Monday, and you don’t get off til 6 PM on Monday, you get 12 hours off, then you do it again, and you have to do it for week-after-week, that’s torture. Not Dachau torture, but it is hard, if you have a mind that needs sleep to think well.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
2:34 am
Maureen is doing service. Her blgg doesn’t block comments of people whose opinions differ from hers.
I wento to “Success For All” website. Reported gains, better than non Success for All schools, are not that good. Finland, with so-called World Leading PISA scores, not that good. Minnesota, with flagship UMTC SIX-YEAR graduation level, not that good. Pretty crappy, actually. Why not 80% after 4 years? Bad pre-college high schools.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
3:09 am
Oops. UMTC 70% for six-year graduation.
I’m different. “Okay we’re sending you to an Ivy school. You have to graduate in four years. That is where we are cutting you off.” We lied, because we subsidized graduate degrees, but still 4 years to earn B.A/ A.B’s was enough. Six years, not necessary with home education. But six years with public education thru high school, attending a flagship a public university, with only 2 out of 3 entrants graduating what kind of “education” are you delivering. At your originally “normal schools” the graduation rates are far lower.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
3:26 am
I loved home-schooling my kids. I went to Berkeley, UCSD and Harvard. Of course I liked all of them. I loved the challenges. I was invited to join the faculties, but I turned them down.
“I like you, but I want to go on my own path.” That is the interesting thing going on your own path.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
3:34 am
Can anybody crack open a gene? Can anybody crack open a giant clam, and give a Southwest Pacific Island tribe a feast? Not really. But I got to do both of these things, and the latter was, for me, more interestin than the former.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
3:45 am
I remember a time, in Baja. These dolphins came around our tiny inflatable, and did dance routines. You can’t make this stuff up. The show they did. I had gone to Seaworld; not even close. I mean it was like Seaworld, but they were doing it on their own, five feet in front of our faces.
home-tutoring parent
March 3rd, 2013
4:44 am
I love Obama because he is anti-fossil fuels. Okay, he went to Florida on AF I. while his wife and daughters flew to Aspen on AF I. He is still an anti-carbon champion. ?He is saying only a few people can burn carbon freely, but most of us must reduce our carbon “footprint”. Al Gore insists on the same thing. He save a lott of energy by flying around on a Cessna Citation, using a lot less carbon fuel than presidential families riding all over the place on 747’s.
‘You have to ride buses and bikes. We don’t because we are leaders.”
PLEASE2
March 3rd, 2013
6:14 am
Unfortuantely, the Constitution has been ignored and the nation, yet again, views Georgia as an un- educated, country-hick state. The story has been analyzed in the N.Y. Times and even the Huffington Post with our Governor’s photo. Why doesn’t he just stay in his own lane, read the Constitution, learn the correct protocols and try to level our Georgia counties budgets so our citizens WILL NOT have an furloughs–especially our teachers!!!
Disgusted in Dekalb
March 3rd, 2013
6:33 am
SACS did not come out of nowhere. Dekalb County agreed to the accreditation process. Now they don’t like the outcome.
I think the Dekalb School Board members should have to pay their own legal fees. Wonder how far this would go if they were using their own money.
The governor and the legislature were elected by the people also. We put those incompetents in office too. You could say the governor is carrying out the will of the people in this instance as well.
I find this whole soap opera despicable. None of these people involved from the school board to the governor to the media give a crap about the kids. They try to say the right things but their actions say otherwise. All they’re interested in is the power and the money while our kids flounder in overcrowded classrooms in decaying buildings with textbooks that are falling apart.
The sad thing is as a parent in Dekalb, there is basically nothing we can do.
SouthernGent
March 3rd, 2013
7:17 am
Hmmm, Maureen, you seem to only talk about the arguments against the law, but fail to report the arguments in favor of the law. Wow, how fair is that reporting? Lets see, the State Constitution endows the power and in large part funds the product so I seriously doubt that the court will find the State without power to regulate it. Of course, unlike you, I actually attended law school rather than staying at a Holiday Inn Express before writing this column.
Beverly Fraud
March 3rd, 2013
8:21 am
@Dr. Trotter,
I’ve taken a sabbatical from commenting on the blog for this month.
Not that I’ll be missed-at all LOL but let it be on the record, lest the SACS sycophants, Herb Garrett apologists,
those suffering from Stockholm Syndromedefenders of the status quo and their oppositesthose who want to turn the government teat into their private gluttonythe privatization advocates think I’ve beat a quick and hasty retreat (Apologies to Dr. Henson on the latter, but for every Dr. Henson there exists the possibility of someone teaching the history of cavemen on pterodactyls drawing aerial view maps of Babylon.)Much as I love the opportunity this blog provides to move the debate forward, (now that Maureen is no longer in denial about Beverly Hall and discipline not being a “pressing issue” LOL) my better half gave me a “tough, fair and legitimate question that INDEED caused a quick and hasty retreat*
Are you getting paid, or is Maureen getting paid?
So in leaving let me add my own condolences to your father passing. I’ve read the tributes and the obit. I wonder how many teachers would not have fled teaching if they had an administrator who so understood “You can’t have good learning conditions until you have good teaching conditions”?
What does it say about a man, that he is remembered decades later as a seminal influence on one’s life, like so many have said about your father? It says it all does it not?
Didn’t your father have a piece called Ten Tenants of a Good Administrator, or something like that?
You should post it here on Get Schooled for all to see. (Maureen, you could make it a blog post; maybe it would call attention to what competent administration really is.)
Pity the Broad Academy doesn’t feature that as a central core of their training, rather than
recruiting people of decidedly questionable character, and supporting them in academic genocide for their own personal gainfailed “reforms”.I didn’t know your father was on the board of directors of MACE. Isn’t it ironic, that if your average administrator was like your father, there wouldn’t even be a need for organizations like MACE?
(Of course we’d still need GAE and PAGE; someone needs to sponsor Spelling Bees, and offer weak and tepid responses to the General Assembly, after all)
Yours is quite the family indeed. Long history of fighting for justice (if the
liberal apologists for bad behavior“school to prison pipeline” crowd saw how your ancestor made the ultimate sacrifice for prisoner rights, they might get off their moral high horse pretty quick. Ha!)Again, my condolences to you and your family.
*Of course Beverly Fraud’s numerous and vociferous detractors have figured it out: Better half asked a tough, fair and legitimate question? As if! An obvious ruse to hide the real story.
Mom has said if I’m to maintain my living space in her basement, the Internet has to be turned off for a month. (Who knew double wide trailers had a basement?)
Jack ®
March 3rd, 2013
8:45 am
This whole DeKalb mess is the result of super egos: It’s damn the children and full speed ahead for my career as a BOARD MEMBER. The voters in DeKalb county are culpable also and they will resist to the bitter end that they are part of the problem; or not part of the problem, but the whole problem.
indigo
March 3rd, 2013
8:47 am
The only legal arguement I am interested in is why should my tax money pay these ousted Board members legal bills.
Dr. John Trotter
March 3rd, 2013
8:48 am
Beverly Fraud, You are very thoughtful and kind…and funny as heck. Thanks for coming off your self-imposed sabbatical from Maureen’s blog. We have missed you! Maureen, thanks for being so indulging me…and for this great blog! When I am not super busy, I try to visit it at least once a day. It’s a little bit addicting!
WilieJo
March 3rd, 2013
8:51 am
The ousted members of school board are arguing that they have a “property right” in their offices. I find that outrageous. The people of the state and Dekalb County ought to rise up and condemn such incredible arrogance. How dare these buffoons claim ownership in the jobs they performed so poorly.
Now some both on the board and in the country want to turn this into a race issue. Voter rights is just code word for invoking race as the driving issue. Of course the claim is as ridiculous as the idea that a board member owns his seat. But the willingness to use race has been a powerful political tool for a long time, especially in the black community. People who are wise and reasonable would see the intervention of the state as a godsend protecting their children and the schools.
If the racists in the county get their way in the courts, the rest of the state will let them have it. They will turn their backs on DeKalb and let the schools be what they are going to be. Dunwoody and Brookwood will get their own systems. Charter schools and homeschooling will siphon away the kids whose parents care. Voter support for school taxes will wane and the racists in south Dekalb will have won.
Good job.
mountain man
March 3rd, 2013
9:08 am
“Wilson was using statewide numbers so you need to plot DeKalb’s scores against the state average, not metro Atlanta. And he is talking about gains.”
In order for Wilson to be completely truthful, and not use lawyerese, he should say ” Dekalb has now improved so that is is just slightly better than Clayton County, but well below any other metro school system, including APS. THAT would be the TRUTH. He doesn’t say that becasue he wants to paint the SACS report as bad. The truth is that governance directly affects performance. If you pass a budget that increases class size, furloughs teachers, and shifts all the money to administration, who do nothing, then your academics are going to get worse. That is what the SACS report says.
Farm
March 3rd, 2013
9:10 am
Art. 8, Sec. 5, Par. 2 of the state constitution provides that members of school boards “shall be elected as provided by law”. I don’t see any way that can be parsed to allow the Governor to appoint a school board member. Even if he can remove them, in mass or otherwise, all that can happen is the creation of a vacancy and a special election. I assume this was addressed at the hearing. After 27 years as a lawyer, I can’t conceive of “elected” being construed to mean “appointed”. We have a long history in this state of removing elected official, and unless the constitution specifically provides otherwise (which it does in some cases like executive officers), the result is a vacancy and an election.
mountain man
March 3rd, 2013
9:12 am
If they win this lawsuit, I hope the State starts taking every action they can – starting by removing state funding from the school system (if the state has no control over them, why should they pay for them). And I hope SACS terminates their accreditation at the end of the year. Let them have the leaders they want and deserve. Become Clayton County north.
But let the State also pass amenedments to allow cities and sections of counties to remove themselves from failing systems. I think if this lawsuit is successful, there will be just as many people ready to vote for that amendment as there were fro the charter school amendment. Thank goodness that passed! Or else the north Dekalb parents would be even MORE trapped!
mountain man
March 3rd, 2013
9:15 am
“I don’t see any way that can be parsed to allow the Governor to appoint a school board member. Even if he can remove them, in mass or otherwise, all that can happen is the creation of a vacancy and a special election. ”
You are reading it too narrowly. Therre are several parts of the Constitution that refer to the Governor appointing elected officials in certain circumstances- why not in this case, as the law provides. Show me where in the Constitution it FORBIDS the Governor from appointing school board members.
Dunwoody Mom
March 3rd, 2013
9:47 am
The state DOE official testified to this at the hearing and said DeKalb was one of 10 to 15 districts in this predicament and that they all had to submit corrective plans, which DeKalb is doing
What Elgart said is that DeKalb is the only school district on probation due to Governance Issues.
Also, I’ve read the portion of the response to SACS that Ramona Tyson. It’s high on generalities and there are little to no “meat” behind the actions listed.
Justice Seeker
March 3rd, 2013
9:48 am
This is a truly horrible situation in that you have an incredibly self indulgent and incompetent board that was freely elected by the people. The question here is do we ignore the Constitution to save the people from themselves? The problem with that is that we turn over massive power to unelected bureaucrats such as those appointees in the Department of Education and self appointed fief owners like Mark Elgart. I am of the notion that if the voters want to crap where they sleep, let them (reference the election of the phoenix Victor Hill in Clayton County). As bad as these board members’ actions appear, do we really want to give imperial powers to anyone? As for the argument that the school boards “take money from the state and feds (RTTT),” where do you think this money comes from? It comes from the very same people that elected the school board. Okay, in the case of the federal government, the Fed just prints it, but that is a different argument.
I have first-hand experience with incompetent and abusive governor appointees. Okay, the labels “incompetent” and “abusive” are my opinion. If you want to see total lack of adherence to the rule of law and bureaucrats pushing a political agenda, get some experience with the Georgia Professional Standard Commission. They have the power to ignore facts and indelibly stain educators to advance their own political agenda. Dr. Trotter, if you think Elgart is bad, you should have got some up close experience with Kathleen Mathers, former Director of GOSA. Of course, she and her cohort, Gary Walker (formerly Deputy Executive Secretary at Georgia Professional Standards Commission) have a lot of time to talk as they are both no longer in their jobs. They got great cover stories, “spending time with the family” and such. Thankfully they are gone and can no longer put innocent educators through thumb screws to prove they are not racists in going after Atlanta Public Schools’ bad actors.
Dunwoody Mom
March 3rd, 2013
9:48 am
Sorry, that should be “that Ramona Tyson has authored to this point: It’s high on generalities and there is little to no “meat” behind the action items.
Richard Braswell
March 3rd, 2013
10:14 am
Dr. Trotter, I read the article under “Too Many Pimps, Sluts, & Bitches Running Our Public Schools!”, I agree with your assessment. I graduated from Baker High in 1966. I attended Arnold Jr. and had many friends at Daniel Jr. and Jordan High. Mr Trotter was a legend in his time. I respected him. I am sorry for your loss.
teachermom
March 3rd, 2013
10:23 am
@Maureen 3:57pm
“Why is there so much more focus on the school board than on the district performance? As I reported earlier, this is an increasing concern with some legislators.
I have yet to see any real research that school boards are critical factors — either helping or hindering — academics. I am sure school boards play a role, but I wonder about the extent of that role. ”
In the case of Dekalb County, the School Board is tying the hands of the district and the school house through the micromanaging of funds, staff, and resources. Which brings us FULL CIRCLE to SACS. How can the school house operate effectively when they are denied money to do the job??? How did this happen? In a nutshell (and obviously) the board has mismanaged funding in a huge way, held closed meetings, lost 12million, and hired a super who was in over her head after leaking info on the better candidates.
This super implemented a program that doesn’t work (SFA), and either supports or initiates a plan to balance the budget on the backs of the school house. All the while hiring high paid people who are her people or those of the sitting board members.
I am in a school house and cannot go into too much detail but will tell you that my own special needs students are suffering from the lack of administrative staff to support my program. It is all a hot mess and NO ONE seems to care about the school house so I would not be surprised if our performance is down. But don’t try blaming the victim…
Lets focus on the government and other agencies who should be investigating this. Laws have been broken. In the end we are left with only SACS to do anything and, frankly, they waited way too long. They only got involved when the outcry became too much to ignore. And the press too. I think everyone is scared of the politics and rightly so. Look what is happening now…
Shame on all of the adults who looked the other way and allowed this to happen. It is the job of those watchdogs and the press to report on this. It is very sad to me that this is a constitutional issue, not protecting the children’s right to an education, but to protect those who have failed them. And shame on the NAACP who care more about politics than the children in their own communities. Sad.
Pardon My Blog
March 3rd, 2013
10:24 am
There are a several things that bother me the most about this whole situation:
1. Use of taxpayer money for a lawsuit brought on by a group seeking personal gain.
2. This law has been in place now for 2 or 3 years and the screaming is just now starting?
3. These Board members have been on the Board for several years now knowing that accreditation was a real concern but instead did NOTHING to try to correct the issues but added to them.
4. They have been asked to step down for the good of the county, the state but most importantly for the very students they claim they are “working” for, yet refuse because they feel they are “entitled”.
It is sad to say but had the Governor been Roy Barnes, there probably would have been no lawsuit, discussion, etc. because they would tow the party line. I think this is more a vendetta to discredit Deal more than anything.
With regards to Vernon Jones, you can thank a good part of the sad state of affairs this county is in due to him.
drew (former teacher)
March 3rd, 2013
11:04 am
Dr. Trotter….condolences on your loss. I enjoyed reading about your father’s life and influence. Sounds like he’s done “good work”, and his work is not done yet.
We worked together briefly in Clayco several years ago, and while I grated a little at the sense of “drama” you tend to bring to the fight, I’m satisfied that your heart is in the right place.
Word of caution though…better back off on the “power of the paddle” stories sprinkled in your reminisces. While those of my generation know of what you speak, I also know Maureen doesn’t appreciate the glorification of “beating” children.
Pride and Joy
March 3rd, 2013
11:19 am
No, I am not swayed.
The biggest deal isn’t how we remove the turds (the BOE) out of the punchbowl (the Dekalb system). The biggest deal is getting the turds out immediately. I don’t care if one uses a net or a fishing pole.
Thurmond and the ENTIRE board need to be removed and Dekalb divided into North and South districts.
dekalbite@mountain man
March 3rd, 2013
11:27 am
“…” Dekalb has now improved so that is is just slightly better than Clayton County…”
Except DeKalb lags Clayton in Reading and Math among Economically Disadvantaged students. Remember that DCSS has a number of very high performing schools in affluent schools that bumps up those averages while Clayton has 100% of their schools as Economically Disadvantaged Title 1 schools:
http://dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/shocking/
It is little comfort to parents to have DeKalb compared to rural school systems in Georgia when they live in the metro area. It is even more egregious since DeKalb millage rate is among the highest rates in the state – 24.75 while the state law says it can’t go above 25.
Fred in DeKalb
March 3rd, 2013
11:51 am
**This super implemented a program that doesn’t work (SFA), and either supports or initiates a plan to balance the budget on the backs of the school house. **
While I’m not sure if one year is enough time to evaluate and determine the effectiveness of SFA, it should be noted that Atkinson initially presented a budget that would have minimal impact on the classroom. It did include a 2 mill increase thus the basis for very public discussions of various line items in the budget. This is what delayed the adoption of the budget. It should be noted that the previous CFO was reassigned by the time the budget process began. It is reasonable to assume why that happened.
**In the case of Dekalb County, the School Board is tying the hands of the district and the school house through the micromanaging of funds, staff, and resources.**
If you read JSW (Jester School Watch), several believe that Jester is the whistle blower and responsible for uncovering the budget shortfalls. Is it possible the other Board members knew also and chose to work to addressing it rather than public posting the shortfalls in a blog? I believe as time goes on, more will realize that Elgart has strong reservations about Jester and her ability to work with the group while not micromanaging the staff.
Dunwoody Mom
March 3rd, 2013
11:56 am
it should be noted that Atkinson initially presented a budget that would have minimal impact on the classroom
“Fred”, I would like to ask you to quit drinking the Kool-Aid. Atkinson requested even higher classroom sizes than the BOE ended up approving.
dekalbite@Fred in DeKalb
March 3rd, 2013
12:18 pm
“While I’m not sure if one year is enough time to evaluate and determine the effectiveness of SFA…”
Atkinson did not get teacher “buy in” or support on the implementation of SFA – something the company says is critical to the success of the program (see their website).
Atkinson did not establish quantifiably measurable objectives tied to student achievement with benchmarks published for taxpayers to see if this program was successful.
DeKalb spent upwards of $100,000,000 in the last 7 or 8 years on “America’s Choice”, another scripted learning program (Counting the $6,000,000 to $8,000,000 a year spent on the program and the additional $10,000,000 spent on non teaching Coaches and Coordinators to support the program).
A $100,000,000 expenditure that has no quantifiably measurable objectives in terms of student achievement and no benchmarks to assess the objectives is a gross misuse of educational dollars.
What do we have to show for the $100,000,000 we spent on America’s Choice – not one quantifiably measurable piece of data and $10,000,000 worth of non teaching Coaches and Coordinators we apparently are stuck with.
The Board should not have approved a program that has no quantifiably measurable objects and benchmarks established to ensure those objectives are being met. Atkinson should not have proposed a program without those in place. DeKalb’s administration (superintendents and Board of Education) keeps making the same financially imprudent decisions over and over.
Fred in DeKalb
March 3rd, 2013
12:35 pm
Dunwoody Mom. regretfully many have a short memory. Atkinson inherited a budget shortfall of over 80 million dollars. In her budget, she suggested increasing class sizes by 2 students. This would have save $14 million dollars. If you know another way to cut almost 20% of that shortfall without impacting the classroom, I’m sure the school district would appreciate your suggestions.