Should constitution be amended to allow Dunwoody, Brookhaven, Sandy Springs to create own school districts?
Could we someday have the city of Dunwoody or city of Brookhaven school district? Or city schools of Sandy Springs or Milton?
A resolution in the House would allow voters to decide whether to undo the constitutional prohibition on creating any new school districts in Georgia. .
House Resolution 486 adds this qualifier to the state constitution:
No independent school system shall hereafter be established; provided, however, that any municipality created on or after January 1, 2005, and any municipality which is contiguous to a municipality created on or after January 1, 2005, irrespective of whether such municipalities may be in different counties, may establish individually or collectively by local law an independent school system.
The resolution proposes that this question be put before voters:
Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended so as to authorize any municipality created on or after January 1, 2005, and any municipality which is contiguous to a municipality created on or after January 1, 2005, irrespective of whether such municipalities may be in different counties, to establish individually or collectively by local law an independent school system
I am unsure why 2005 is the starting point, although it does enable both Sandy Springs and Milton to create school districts as they formed after January of 2005.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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129 comments Add your comment
Private Citizen
February 27th, 2013
7:16 am
Sho ’nuff.
catlady
February 27th, 2013
8:18 am
I’m in favor of ANY town being allowed to pull out of the school system and have their own. Locally-determined school systems seem to do pretty. Well. Look at Buford and Decatur. Their people VALUE the education and SUPPORT the education of their kids. Since we are all about “choice” nowadays, cannot think of why this should not be enacted.
Clarence
February 27th, 2013
8:45 am
The counties own the buildings… i suppose they will just give them to the City for free? And doesn’t everyone always talk about “cutting the fat?” More board members and another central office to feed! There’s progress! I like the idea of a limit. Force some rural systems to consolidate if you want new city systems.
Johns Creek
February 27th, 2013
9:07 am
I do have to say that Johns Creek City Schools has a nice ring to it. A system who’s High Schools are Chattahoochee, Johns Creek, and Northview could very well compete with some of the finest systems in the country.
Brit
February 27th, 2013
9:10 am
I would like to see one of these people calling to be cut off from the rest of the county ( excellent analogy Chamblee Dad) spend some time on a cost analysis rather than kvetching on blogs. Do you have any idea what it costs to run a small school system. There is a readon City of Decatur has the hughest taxes in GA. They will all need seperate supers, seperate admin,seperate boards. And as Clarence says,buildings in Funwoody are the property of the county. If a city wants a building it will have to buy or lease it from the rest of the county. I have never seen any of the parents so desperate to declare their fiefdom even address this. Pay someone qualified to look into it. Work out the cost and the resulting tax increase. Poll city residents to see if they will accept those increases ( I can assure you those with no kids will not). Then, if you somehow get enough support, take those figures to the state BOE. Pointing out how terrible Dekalb County is on here and on DSW ( apart from St Nancy Jester, of course) just makes you look ineffectual.
Brit
February 27th, 2013
9:12 am
Apologies for typos. New phone, short on time.
Pardon My Blog
February 27th, 2013
9:22 am
I want people in the Lakeside area to ask themselves how much more do they want to be taxed? and will this really solve the issues we have? I have noticed this group is playing on the anger that the residents have about the whole school system mess but several years ago members of this group helped contribute to this mess. We don’t want to be forced to move because we are taxed out of the area.
I would like the Representatives to consider Charter Clusters with oversight by the State and not the DeKalb School Board. If this were given to the Lakeside district, would there be as much interest then? I tend to think not especially if this group gave out honest numbers on exact taxes and what that increase would provide.
concernedmom30329
February 27th, 2013
9:36 am
I would pay Decatur type taxes for Decatur type schools and results. However, Decatur City Schools has only 3664 students. A city of Sandy Spring school system, for example, would have 1000s more students, a quick estimate shows that Riverwood and North Springs high schools have about 3300 students total. Add the middle and elementary and it as at least double the size of Decatur if not more.
Radical idea, that a small school system can do more with less. No need to pay board members, if a community doesn’t want to. You can also pay them less than DCSS members make now. Most city councils make less than the DCSS board.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
10:00 am
I’ll throw this out there – Bu2 touched on this from the counter point, bu not the pro-city crowd, at least not fully head on.
The way this thing is written – 2005 on & adjacent – does come off as sneaky. And further, it leaves out all the other cities. I’ve heard more than a few times: “we want local control, those to the south can have it too, with the new smaller district.” But it’s not equal. If Stone Mountain wanted local control with a city system they can’t have it. Maybe they don’t want it it, but they have no choice. Net result: Dunwoody & new cities could have true geographically local control the rest don’t/can’t.
And that goes for almost all the county seats & other cities throughout the state. That comes off, at least to me, as we should get local control because we deserve it – our system is really bad. So bad we should amend the State Constitution. But after this select few no one else can have it. Is that motivated by selfish motivation &/or perhaps simple strategy to get it through the statehouse? If motivated by a true desire for “local control for all” shouldn’t all that language be removed.
And as NW GA Teacher says they might like it up there too, mentions Dalton city. That brings me to add this: I went thru Dalton City Schools 1970-1982, I had the advantage of a much better school system than the county kids (NW & SE Whitfield), it was a true example of the have & have nots. What if we had a unified system, would all have benefited, would it have pulled them up, us down or both? These days, as the growth spread into county it has gotten much better, but it took a tax base to do it.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2013
10:30 am
“I went thru Dalton City Schools 1970-1982, I had the advantage of a much better school system than the county kids (NW & SE Whitfield), it was a true example of the have & have nots. What if we had a unified system, would all have benefited, would it have pulled them up, us down or both?”
Chamblee Dad – I attended Dalton City Schools, also. They were the better schools. My parents made it a point to move into the city to go to them. I think if you look at systems, when you unify a system, you always pull the good down to the level of the worst, not the other way around. The worst are the worst because of their practices, such as not dealing with discipline and attendance. When you unify the system, you don’t get any better at not doing this.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2013
10:33 am
“We don’t want to be forced to move because we are taxed out of the area.”
A lot of people (in Dunwoody, perhaps) don’t want to have to move because they have a crappy County school system and their school is about to lose its accreditation.
Brit
February 27th, 2013
10:44 am
Well Mountain Man, like I said ‘a lot of people’ is not a quantifiable amount. Until you poll every resident on whether they want a big hike to pay for schools ( unproven schools, there is no evidence to support that a locally controlled school would be any better) then all you are doing is supporting the minority – pissed parents of school age children who use public schools.
Concerned mom, you would pay Decatur taxes because you have school age kids. Those without kids probably would vote against paying a lot more. Plus you would still have to pay some Dekalb County taxes as well, just like Decatur city residents do. Talking about how much it costs to run a brand new school system is pie in the sky. Where is the capital investment coming from? So apparently now you don’t need a board at all. I would like to see how that works. Who would oversee the superintendent? Don’t tell me, Dekalb School Watch?
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2013
11:33 am
“Until you poll every resident on whether they want a big hike to pay for schools ”
That is what the ballot box is for. The amendment just gives cities the option. You can vote in whomever you wish.
This option probably never would have emerged except for the BOE’s fighting to keep their positions even when they are doing a failing job. I just like having more choice other than being trapped by the county.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
11:35 am
@ mountain man nice to talk to a fellow Catamount.
Seems we agree on the facts of Dalton City vs. Whitfield County, at least back then, it wasn’t equal. Then you answer my question by saying a unified system would pull the city down. But remember when we integated around 1976, built new high school, combined Dalton with Fort Hill, the school that was literally “across the tracks” = people who owed/ran the carpet mills, doctors & lawyers thrown in, to the west; the people who worked in the carpet mills to the east. The worry was it could bring us down, didn’t happen. It was still a very good school, well at least by Georgia standards. Ther were no private schools, a system for all. Wealth/tax based was shared, benefited all.
Maybe we lived the rare exception, but I think DCSS was much better at one time, plenty of old-timers say so & lament the fall. But what if you do the reverse, pull out a disproportionate portion of the tax base? What happens to the “have nots” left? Are they like Whitfield County?
Are we telling them – sorry, that’s a “you” problem?
Bill & Ed's Excellent Adventure
February 27th, 2013
11:43 am
Really, what’s the point of discussing whether we should/should not do this? Won’t Millar/Jacobs just wave the magic cityhood wand over this and make it reality, regardless of the long term effects it may have on the entirety of DCSS?
What’s more, it’s a huge contradiction that folks who trumpet the cause of “a quality education for every Dekalb student with equal funding, etc.” are the same folks who are first in line to form their own city district, despite the harm it would have on those underfunded students/schools they’re supposedly here to advocate for.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2013
11:49 am
“Are we telling them – sorry, that’s a “you” problem?”
They had their chance to make it work as a unified system – and they blew it. So the people left have two choices – pull out if the new amendment passes – or start looking for a house in a different county. That is what would have happened if the unified system in Dalton had been dragged down. Dalton WAS an exception.
Mountain Man
February 27th, 2013
11:51 am
“a quality education for every Dekalb student with equal funding, etc.”
Funding has absolutely nothing to do with quality education. Look at the difference between Cobb county and APS – APS spends MUCH more per student – whith a lot WORSE results.
Bill & Ed's Excellent Adventure
February 27th, 2013
12:02 pm
Meanwhile, Dunwoody currently has some of the best schools in Dekalb.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
12:18 pm
@mountain man agreed that it’s not just the $$ it’s how you spend it. And more than that, if it even gets to the schools, alot of squandered $$ in DCSS. But alot could be accomplished with the budget we have, even with dwindling tax revenuews. To me, that means get the system going back in the right direct, the right people making the right decisions, this thing could work alot better, as it did before.
Pipe dream? Maybe, evidenced by the voting decisions of many? certainly. But there has been some churn, just not enough & not the right ones, at least as perceived by many. Biggest churn has been at super. & none of it good. Could a legit enough board be seated to hire a qualified super. who is the right fit? That remains the biggest question to me.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
12:20 pm
revenues
archie
February 27th, 2013
12:45 pm
Back in the days of the semi-legendary DeKalb suprintendent Jim Cherry, I had to spend twelve years listening to the DeKalb School System brag about themselves. Ye gods, how the mighty have fallen in recent years! If Dunwoody wants to split off and form their own school system, well and good but that is going to take money and where are they going to get the buildings for three schools unless they assume DCPS is going to just “hand them over?”
Leo
February 27th, 2013
1:00 pm
This doesn’t have to be about “has and has not” from a funding perspective. Collect the money singularly and then divide it up based on population. Each kid gets the same amount of money for education regardless of where the go to school. Some systems, I suspect, would make better use of this money than others. I recently attended an information session about a new public charter school. They’ll have a lot less money but appear to be funded well enough to ensure small class sizes plus all of the “specials” that people covet at their home schools. If they can do it at one school, it makes logical sense that a larger school system could do it too, but for whatever reason, we are seeing that our larger systems “can’t” do it.
Returning DCSS Parent
February 27th, 2013
1:07 pm
@mountain man, same rhetoric regarding South DeKalb. It is clear you have not visted our community as it consists of more than the 3 high schools mentioned. Arabia Mountain High School is the FIRST green ribbon high school in the state of GA and is located in Lithonia. Every student in the school is required to wear uniforms and take accelerated classes. Students must be chosen by lottery in order to attend and must have a solid B average. Students that cannot keep up are offered remedial help. Ultimately, the requirements to remain at the school are high and as a parent of a 9th grader, I love it. So, please spare me your biased opinions about what goes on in my community as clearly, you are still uniformed and have no desire to learn the truth about South DeKalb citizens.
If Dunwoody and Sandy Springs want their own districts, they should be able to do it without my tax dollars. All these little fifedoms popping up and want to take the commercial tax base with them leaving unicorporated DeKalb to foot the bills for everyone else. When Dunwoody was granted cityhood, I was not allowed to vote even though they decided Perimeter Mall and surrounding areas should be included as part of their city. ALL of DeKalb made Perimeter Mall what it is today, not the 32K citizens living in Dunwoody. The politicians at the Gold Dome made it easy for Dunwoody to become a city and take a large portion of the county’s tax base. So create your school district but know that your city, is still part of DeKalb, whether you like it or not. Be careful what you ask for…, it may not turn out as you had hoped.
markoo
February 27th, 2013
1:14 pm
I say yes, though I am in an area of DeKalb that will suffer because it will never be incorporated and never leave DeKalb county schools.
d
February 27th, 2013
1:33 pm
Just one thing about the accreditation concerns – I think the individual high schools should seek out their own accreditation. That eliminates the problem with the district accrediation, and why do elementary and middle schools need it anyway?
As far as the amendment, I think the 2005 date will kill the amendment. Remember this would have to go to a state-wide vote, and to the best of my knowledge, we’ve had a handful of cities created in Fulton, one in DeKalb and one in Gwinnett. There are 156 other counties out there.
TM
February 27th, 2013
1:52 pm
Given the circumstances, at first blush it seems appropriate, perhaps ideal for Dunwoody and other new cities to be able to create their own school districts. Clearly these parents have the right and obligation to their children and taxpayers to provide the best schools/education that their resources (financial and political) can muster. But, if it is done in a vacuum, it may prove to be short sighted.
The DCSS problems are systemic, not just in terms of its current leadership, but also in terms of the transition from suburban to a more urban setting – density, significant changes in area demographics due to a myriad of factors, and the overall condition of U.S. public education. DCSS is facing these challenges with a culture and set of resources (including leadership) that are not aligned with the circumstances. The transition required is challenging – painful, and filled with uncertainty and much collateral damage. But for the learn term, it should be thought through with a broad set of considerations – growth, productive neighboring communities, and geographic competencies for competitiveness.
One approach to the problem is to circle the wagons, create an island, or build fences – pick a metaphor. The problem with this approach is, that it may intensify the insecurities of both, those inside and outside of the new cities, undermines the collective wisdom required to solve the problems, and in the long run make it more expensive than alternative approaches to grow, compete, and have strong neighbors.
I think in would be far more productive for rational minds and major stakeholders (major landowners, business owners, professional negotiators, political leaders, etc) from the major quadrants of the county to establish a collective and comprehensive, transition agenda that helps to crystallize the priorities and leadership types required for the success of the entire county. It may mean more and smaller school disricts within the county, or it may mean more robust efforts only to collaborate to address DeKalb school and government ills.
The bi-partisan, cross culture support demonstrated on the DCSS BoE suspension give me hope and evidence for alternative options for success.
skipper
February 27th, 2013
1:59 pm
Call it race….call it whatever. Elephant in the room: folks in this system for whatever reason will elect a board THAT IS NOT CAPABLE of running a school system. Then, everybody has to suffer. There were inequalities/injustices for a long time so….how do folks solve them? By putting self-serving buffoons on the board, then playing the race card when they are called out for being the nuts they are. Why holler about education when most just want “us” in charge with no pre-requisite of success or true education. Who the heck would move in and send a kit to one of the inner city clusters!
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
2:06 pm
@ returning “If Dunwoody and Sandy Springs want their own districts, they should be able to do it without my tax dollars.” That’s exactly what they want to do. They don’t need your tax dollars.
“All these little fifedoms popping up and want to take the commercial tax base with them leaving unicorporated DeKalb to foot the bills for everyone else.” Given today’s current economic climate, that’s the reality. According to many here – “that’s a you problem.”
Lastly – You sound like a proud resident of the Lithonia area. Good for you, local pride can carry you far. I’m not sure if you would ever want your own Lithonia city school system. But since the actual city is only about 2K, and the surrounding community about 15K, better annex them in. But wait, the way this is written, still won’t work, the whole 2005 deal. Why is that? Easier to get by statehouse & voters (still not convinced it helps, creative? yes, effective? too early to call), or is it because only the new cities deserve/can be trusted to run a school system?
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
2:11 pm
@d I agree that change in accreditation should be one of the primary efforts right now.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
2:29 pm
@ TM Dead on! Thanks for articulating much of what’s been bouncing around in my head & those of us who are not prepared to abandon ship. Problem is they write us off as naive & dilusional. Nobody says it won’t be easy, I’ll even concede it might not be that possible, but I think it’s worth trying. Metrowide – improved education, it benefits us all. DeKalb schools falls apart, it won’t happen in vacuum, it impacts the entire area. Just like bad economy – even if not in your neighborhood.
It might be that much harder if those who want to leave won’t come to the table you describe as alternative 2.
skipper
February 27th, 2013
2:34 pm
Chamblee Dad,
Can’t wish the warts off a hog, fella’!
Eugene Walker Must Go
February 27th, 2013
3:43 pm
This is a great example of cart before the horse. What is needed is more school districts, probably 10 or 11 with 9-10K students per district. Some communities don’t have the option to become municipalities as they don’t have large enough business districts to generate revenue. Obviously, a school district of 99,000 students is not manageable. More school districts YES, more municipalities OPTIONAL.
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
3:43 pm
“I grew up in Atlanta and am back in Atlanta”
WHY IS THAT? IT’S CHEAPER? FAMILY LIVES HERE (because it’s cheaper)? You could actually find a job?
, but lived in Abington PA, township outside of Philadelphia. Abington has its own schools, property taxes are higher, but the schools were good. –
Yes, NO POOR PEOPLE in your district. If you were POOR, what would your public school experience be like?
I noticed that “Sandy Hook” type communities are popular up North.
After YEARS of Southern whites continually being bashed for RACISM (including bussing students AND teachers) because they might try to stick together in a community or use private schools, I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THIS NOBLE NORTHERN HYPOCRISY!!!!!!!!!! YOU WERE BEHIND IT!
New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania are some of the most CORRUPT STATES in the U.S. (besides California). Because of that, THE NOBLE NORTHERNERS can no longer afford the high price tag of the “superior public schools” because their corrupt FORMER benefactors, THE WALL STREET GANG, has turned the tables on them AND RUN THEM OUT OF TOWN! (Try renting a one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan).
So where do they go? Why South, of course. Land of LOW TAXES and CHEAP HOUSING, THANKS TO THE WALL STREET GANG.(Goldman Sachs junk mortgages, anyone?). I hate to bust your bubble, but your Wall Street overlords do NOT fund Georgia. So what do the brilliant 21st century carpet baggers do? They blow into town and act like the RACIST REDNECKS they spent years defaming. Oh, but they made sure to get control of the “press” so the truth WOULD NOT GET OUT! Who cares about the Constitution, WHEN YOU CAN BRIBE to get your way.
Even Southern racists had more integrity than YOU. At least they started private schools and PAID THEIR OWN WAY, leaving the school tax money to go a bit further for those in need. AND YOU? NO WAY! You want to SEGREGATE YOURSELVES and GOBBLE UP MORE THAN YOUR FAIR SHARE OF THE TAX DOLLARS. Sandy Hook ll.
But of course, YOU DESERVE IT. You are so much smarter! JUST ASK NOBLE NORTHERNER (Skull and Bones) JOHN KERRY! He paid a visit to the fabled land of “Kyrzakhstan” to christen his new (political payoff) job as Secretary of State. Don’t know about you, but HEINZ Ketchup is FORBIDDEN in my house. Some Southerners STILL HAVE STANDARDS.
But don’t worry NOBLE NORTHERNERS, Southerners don’t like to stereotype like you do. We see each of you as individuals.
Remember, Obama promises NEW BRAINS FOR ALL in 2023. THAT WILL FINALLY MAKE US ALL EQUAL!
Ned
February 27th, 2013
3:45 pm
Should constitution be amended to allow Dunwoody, Brookhaven, Sandy Springs to create own school districts?
No. Or at least not unless Stone Mountain, Chamblee, Doraville, Clarkston, Pine Lake, Lithonia, Tucker . . . are also allowed to do the same.
Seriously, what is the point of limiting this to just newer, more affluent communities?
Edugator
February 27th, 2013
4:21 pm
Wow- Truth in Moderation. Talk about false advertising. Thanks Chamblee Dad for injecting sanity into the blogosphere, and to those other posters who point out the absurdity of these proposals to create school systems just for the affluent.
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
4:42 pm
“Talk about false advertising.”
Thank you for correcting my opinion, Noble Northerner!
Shrek
February 27th, 2013
4:48 pm
YES! And the republicans under the gold dome better ram some conservative laws down the dems throats while we have a huge majority in house, senate & Gov.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
4:52 pm
@ Archie “Back in the days of the semi-legendary DeKalb suprintendent Jim Cherry, I had to spend twelve years listening to the DeKalb School System brag about themselves. Ye gods, how the mighty have fallen in recent years!”
What happened to DCSS in your mind? Other old-timers (and not so old) out there, please share – what do you personally think. I’m sincerely interested.
I’ve heard well-thought out analysis as set forth by TM – a county-wide transition, not just on the educational level, but in many aspects. It does ring true.
But when it comes to those focused on the schools primarily, rather than TM’s super big picture, I’ve heard from others, & in my mind witnessed/discovered the more I was compelled to dig, this:
A culture of entitlement was built at the central office until it was bulging at the seams. Way to many unneeded positions being filled by more & more coming in to the point they felt they need a new building to hold them all. Building an inertia, a growing mass of illegit friends & family hires, flaunting of conflicts of interests, pet projects & special programs that never worked, implementation of IT system that never worked, corruption in the construction process that ended in criminal charges, less & less $$ getting to the schools from Title 1 & countless other sources, an insane legal bill, horrible accounting, a culture of secrecy, intimidation & fear, and an impressive process to distract the people from much of this (blue ribbon committees & public input meetings galore). I know I’m missing alot more, but still a mouthful.
Who did this? The Supers. going back to Lewis at least, a huge cadre at the CO & plenty of pushing & meddling from a board that often participated instead of trying to reign it in.
Old-timers & observers/school advocates, am I close?
Begs question, can THAT be fixed, with a new board hiring a new super. cleaning house from top to bottom? Seems like many have been asking for that for years, I know I have. Many have reached the opinion it’s too late. Is it?
@skipper “Can’t wish the warts off a hog, fella’!” Can a get a new & better pig? Or do I need to slaughter the pig & bring home a litter of piglets?
Pardon My Blog
February 27th, 2013
4:56 pm
@Truth – Did you forget to take your meds again?!
Returning DCSS Parent
February 27th, 2013
5:17 pm
@Chamblee Dad, I live in unicorporated DeKalb which includes parts of Lithonia but not the city of Lithonia. Huge difference in schools and tax base. I get your point.
mountain man
February 27th, 2013
5:31 pm
“Or do I need to slaughter the pig & bring home a litter of piglets? – ”
Yes – and that is what the Governor is trying to do.
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
5:59 pm
@Chamblee Dad
Of course you like living in what was once known in the ’70’s as “Chambodia”. Guess who built your community and competitive schools? Yes, those poor Cambodian Asian refugees that Nixon let in after the Vietnam War disaster. Your semsibilities probably wouldn’t have favored the rather poor ESL community of the ’70’s. But the Asians were hard working and thankful to come to America. They have greatly contributed to the area. One of my son’s best friend grew up there.
Adam Smith
February 27th, 2013
5:59 pm
As for the Dunwoody thing, you need to understand that the county imposes tremendous obstacles to improving the learning environment. It’s not always about the problems at the central office. There are some poor teachers at DHS. Parents complain about them semester after semester, year after year, but they have friends in high places and are impossible to remove. There are poor administrators who lack a basic grasp of the English language and who hound and harass the best teachers at the high school (best teachers in the sense they have been recognized as teachers of the year and enjoy overwhelming support from students and parents). These people poison the atmosphere of the school, lower morale for everybody and drive talented teachers to other systems and schools. The parents are POWERLESS to improve this situation. The incompetent ones are protected from on high. This is one major reason for the movement to create a new district – to gain a measure of control over the schoolhouse(s).
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
6:04 pm
“Did you forget to take your meds again?!”
Could you please explain your OT comment? I don’t get it. I am sure a brilliant Noble Northerner like you can explain it to me. Thanks!
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
6:33 pm
NO!
These upscale communities should do what Southerners have always done….start private schools or home school.
Here’s why: these communities are the cash cows of their districts. The “poor” in their district DO depend on their excess. The problem is educrat parasites have crept into the “public” school system and are siphoning off money that should benefit the poor. The result is more money is demanded to run the school in the name of the”poor” and property taxes go up, while the quality of the public schools go down. All in the name of the “poor”. If the wealthy quit being greedy and trying to “get back” what you paid in taxes, IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE CHEAPER, AND THE”POOR” WOULD HAVE BETTER SCHOOLS. The rich would have the clout to throw out educrat FREELOADERS, because their own children would not be held hostage by the public schools. The rich get their superior education that they have paid for, and the poor get something better than they could have provided themselves. If enough of the rich pull out, the parasite bloat will be forced to decrease. and there will be better schools FOR LESS! If public schools aren’t viewed AS CHARITIES, then what purpose do they serve? We should get rid of them now, because THEY ARE COSTING US OUR CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS and in exchange, we are getting an inferior product.
Private Citizen
February 27th, 2013
6:36 pm
administrators who… hound and harass the best teachers at the high school… These people poison the atmosphere of the school, lower morale for everybody and drive talented teachers to other systems and schools.
That’s my experience in real life and they have some kind of hundred year nest in the central office. Literally, folk who just go around and harass people and get paid for it. This same group or mode or whatever harass principals, too, and violate chain of command just as some school board members have been identified to do. These roving greater-admin just go around and inject themselves wherever they like. I’ve seen one occupy a principal’s office and act like they’re principal and cause the real principal, a good and capable person, to almost have a nervous breakdown. The subject was that the occupier was trying to malign teacher work reviews. The same person made teacher work reviews, messed them up, and then issued a second set of work reviews, which must be illegal. Really really wide open abuse of people, from these people who have put in their years, get executive pay, and then “hang around” a school district.
I truly wish there was a way to address it. Only a couple of weeks ago, a guy told me his teacher wife is being harassed in the work place. It just goes on and on.
Edugator
February 27th, 2013
6:48 pm
Chamblee Dad, please submit your name to be appointed to the Board by Gov. Deal. Your summation of DeKalb history is spot on. Might as well go back to the sainted Jim Cherry, who designed a system of tiny (and expensive) neighborhood schools and hung on to segregation until compelled by the courts to end it, thereby subjecting DeKalb to decades of stifling court supervision.
Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
6:51 pm
@mountain man At this point I think the Governor is trying to give us a new pig – whole hog style, probably still have warts. But for now, I’ll take it. At least see how it works out.
My litter of little piggies is a group of separate city school systems in DeKalb, perhaps rendering the old pig into bacon & ham. But piggies grow up into pigs & all pigs oink.
I think this is where truth is supposed to tell me I don’t need a pig at all, get another farm animal altogether, what would be good for homeschooling? Rooster maybe? They do alot of crowing. Sorry truth, couldn’t resist that one.
Truth in Moderation
February 27th, 2013
7:02 pm
@Chamblee Dad
If you want to continue to “ionk” like a PIG, be my guest. LOL!
dekalbite@Chamblee Dad
February 27th, 2013
7:04 pm
“What happened to DCSS in your mind? Other old-timers (and not so old) out there, please share – what do you personally think. I’m sincerely interested.”
Halford decided to use the “business model” in the mid 1990s so DeKalb was set up into small regions, (I don’t remember the number – I believe it was 16 regions ).
Each region was supposed to be it’s own “business center” with its own executive superintendent (a regional superintendent by a different name). The success of the schools in that region was to rest on the shoulders of that regional superintendent. This is a sound business model the BOE was told.
A bureaucratic nightmare ensued. Each regional superintendent hired his/her own fulltime content coordinators (what power!). Each of the 16 “teams” had a social studies, math, language arts, and science coordinator, an assistant superintendent, and a few others.
Within a year, Dekalb had close to 100 very highly administrators on the “teams”.
The coordinators were drawn from classroom teachers and given much higher pay than even an Lead Teacher positions (no APS at that time – Lead Teachers who were paid a stipend of around $2,000 a year more than a teacher). Many were very good teachers.
Meanwhile, everything at the teacher and classroom level went on as before. Most teachers were not aware of these changes as all this went on above their heads and didn’t impact the classroom as far as they could see. Mainly the teams met and planned and met and planned. There was a very substantial impact on the budget but property values were going up so the taxes did too.
The business model didn’t work as planned. Regional superintendents kept changing (every year) so no one was ever in place long enough to take responsibility for his/her area. Also, the area boundaries began to change. Some areas were collapsed into other areas and others were eliminated. Political infighting ensued among the regional superintendents as to who would be left standing and who had the power. A “clash of the Titans” began in the Central Office. Who has the power continues today.
The “team” members began to be shuffled between teams or put into Central Office positions created for them so they wouldn’t have to go back into the classrooms (huge decrease in pay if they did that). The “team” members were very nervous during this time, fearful that they would lose their admin positions and their pay increases.
But in the end everything worked out for the team members – Central Office positions were created for them as the “team” concept was slowly phased out. Most of the original team members are gone due to the Brown and Lewis buyouts. The regional superintendents who made the highest bucks were absorbed back into the system, and jobs were created with titles commensurate with their pay when they were regional superintendents.
That “team” business center concept of the mid 90s was the beginning of rise of the Central office administrators. The Central Office came to be filled with numerous highly paid instructional supervisors and coordinators. Power centers and alliances were established. Those “team” positions morphed into different positions to match the alliances and power centers we have today.
Many people in the Central Office today may not realize they owe their jobs to the legacy of the “team” concept started by Halford.
Before the “team” concept of the mid 90s, Dekalb functioned with very few coordinators.
For example, the Language Arts coordinator Ginny Mickish handled all of Language Arts as well as ESOL so teachers knew exactly who to go to – and by the way, Ginny didn’t mind if any teacher came directly to her with any concerns or problems. Her door was always open.
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The idea of regional superintendents was tried 15 years ago. The results Dekalb saw:
1. They were not really independent
2. They promoted some terrible infighting and “turf” wars
2. They gave rise to a horrific bureaucracy that we are still trying to tame today
3. The regional boundaries and superintendents were shifted so frequently no one was ultimately responsible for anything