Parent trigger and charters: As we offer more school choice, what happens to children left behind?
Shanna Miles is an educator and a parent working in the metro Atlanta area. An avid literacy advocate, she lobbies to ensure that every child has access to a free and public library in a community.
She wrote this piece for the Monday print AJC education op-ed page.
By Shanna Miles
In the 1840s, Irish Catholic parents lobbied for local control of schools so that their children wouldn’t be indoctrinated by a Protestant curriculum.
In 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower had to call in the National Guard to lead nine African-American children past a picket line of angry white parents who were outraged that their school was to be integrated.
Fast-forward a half-century or so, and the war between government and parents still rages with the passage of Amendment 1 and the introduction of the “Parent Trigger” charter bill. Now winding its way through the Legislature, House Bill 123 would allow parents and teachers to force a local school board to consider their petition to change their traditional public school into a charter school.
On the surface, the question seems to be, who should have control of the schools — parents or the government? But on closer inspection, another much deeper question arises: Whose responsibility is it to educate a child — society’s or the parent’s?
Business needs an educated workforce to ensure efficiency and profit. Governments need working citizens to pay taxes. Parents need their children to be educated so that they can feed, clothe and shelter themselves. It seems that everyone is on the same page, but there is a problem.
Free will.
We forget that education is compulsory by law. Even children who are not willing to learn — because their basic needs are not being met, they don’t like the curriculum, or they just don’t want to sit still for hours on end — are forced to be in school. And these students are corralled into classrooms, placed next to eager children, and set before a teacher who is charged with being not only educator, but a warden.
What was once a classroom has now become a prison.
Schools, limited by federal and state funding, are becoming increasingly ill-equipped to serve students who need mental health services, stable housing or intense remediation — all of which are not, and some argue cannot be, provided by the schools. Is it any wonder that parents and teachers want out of this situation?
So a solution is proposed, a panacea for those weary of the policy debates and federal mandates and endless arguments on the school board and Senate floors: the charter school, the ultimate opt-out.
With it, parents and teachers can create “safe havens” where only those students whose parents are willing to volunteer, submit to additional testing and adhere to a longer school day, and who are able to provide their own transportation, uniforms, textbooks, lunch, whatever, are able to attend. In essence, a charter school is a place where all parents, if not students, think exactly alike.
But what of the school with the students who are left behind?
It becomes a sanitarium, and the educational landscape devolves into a state of plague, where the most vulnerable students are quarantined into even more poorly funded “sick houses” as those with options huddle behind the iron gates of entrance requirements and parent covenants.
Are we forgetting that the kids left behind will grow up? Then what?
Do we build larger prisons? Upgrade our neighborhood security gates to include an armed guard?
We all want education; the “public” part is what most of us don’t like. But we don’t live on an island, and we can’t sail away from difficult people and difficult issues. As adults, we don’t get to opt out.
As HB 123 works its way through the legislative process, all of us need to decide whether we’re going to lobby as responsible members of a collective society, or cower like citizens under siege.
–from Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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113 comments Add your comment
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
4:30 am
Wow! I mean, this is flabbergasting.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
4:55 am
“With it, parents and teachers can create “safe havens”…”
How horrible; parent and teachers, after being failed and failed again by the public school bureaucracy, want to be in schools where the children are actually safe! The nerve of these people.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
5:02 am
Are we forgetting that the kids left behind will grow up? Then what?
Do we build larger prisons? Upgrade our neighborhood security gates to include an armed guard?
Umm Sarah; did you ever consider the possibility of restoring discipline in those schools? So they might learn the rule of law, learn to socialize in acceptable ways in school, before they have to learn it in prison?
Or would you rather continue to hold well meaning parents and their well behaved children hostage to a dysfunctional educational monolith that time and time again has displayed a lack of integrity towards children?
Seriously?
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
5:07 am
“As HB 123 works its way through the legislative process, all of us need to decide whether we’re going to lobby as responsible members of a collective society, or cower like citizens under siege.”
Umm Sarah, when you are under siege by the likes of Eugene Walker, by the likes Crawford Lewis, Arne Duncan, RTTT and other such assaults, the responsible thing is to act like your under siege and protect yourself accordingly.
It’s just too bad that those offering the refuge (Amendment 1, HB 123) are acting more like Somali pirates than true protectors.
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
5:12 am
I was a criminal in my youth. This guy, Randy, got me into shoplifting. I got caught. Not by the store employees, they were obtuse. By my mom, who realized I couldn’t possibly afford the “lot” I had in my room. So, we went to the stores, I confessed to store managers, and used my work-earnings to make restitution. I didn’t rat on Randy, but we parted ways.
Was school “prison” for us? In retrospect, probably. In 7th grade I was in “gifted” classes, but I signed up for metal shop. The teacher told me I needed to be in 8th grade shop, and so my entire schedule was re-done, and I was put into “dummies” classes. Wow!
My oldest son was judged to be “okay, not very good” in math, his younger brother was deemed “math incompetent”. I took them home for a different kind of teaching. You can’t get an 800 SAT II Level IIC unless you are mathematically pretty competent.
Andy
February 19th, 2013
5:40 am
The public school system in GA for the most part is an embarrassment and the school boards and teacher’s unions are as much to blame as the parent’s.
Hopefully this charter school bill solves some problems for many children.
Peter Smagorinsky
February 19th, 2013
5:53 am
There are no teacher unions in Georgia. PAGE is not a bargaining unit or one that protects jobs. It plays no role in school governance. Please, pay attention before repeating this ridiculous falsehood.
SGATeacher
February 19th, 2013
5:55 am
Sadly, this is actually the case, but of course, no one wants to admit what to do about those other children.
What about the special needs kids, kids who come from broken homes and the reluctant to learn?
Before you throw out discipline, consider this: most of those children who are disciplined at school is MINOR compared to the brutality of the discipline at home. I have heard tales of belts across the face, for instance, so discipline is out. (And btw, the teacher gets in trouble if they send too many students to the office for discipline, and the school gets in trouble if they have too many disciplinary actions against students – so that point is moot)
A charter school will not help the students who need it the most. The students coming from two parent, professional families with lots of parental support will be successful anywhere, a charter school for them is an excuse to get their children away from “Undesireables” similar to the Irish at the turn of the century and the integration in the 1960’s. Quick: Why do you think so many rural S. Georgia counties have successful private schools? Answer: Integration.
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
5:57 am
I taugt a kid, his teacher judged him to be below class average. With intensive teaching he scored a 27 ACT math. In 7th grade.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
6:29 am
(And btw, the teacher gets in trouble if they send too many students to the office for discipline, and the school gets in trouble if they have too many disciplinary actions against students – so that point is moot)
Though you are completely right, it is exactly the point. This dynamic of “blaming the teacher” who sends out of control children to the office, this dysfunction needs to be dismantled. It can’t be done from within; the bureaucracy has steadfastly refused to address it. The only way to address it is to starve the beast; starve the bureaucracy by giving more choices.
Right now, it appears the only choice to give the money to is to the educational equivalent of Somali pirates, but at least it does provide a chance to starve the beast
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
6:35 am
“a charter school for them is an excuse to get their children away from “Undesireables” similar to the Irish at the turn of the century and the integration in the 1960’s”
What about the African-American families that are clamoring for school choice SGAteacher? Are they trying to move their children away from “the blacks,” or are they trying to remove their children away from a dysfunctional system that continually under serves them because “these children will be fine anyway.”?
Just the Facts
February 19th, 2013
6:46 am
What happens to children left behind?
=============================
It could be argued that currently there are entire schools in the APS being left behind. You have a community of children not prepared for this world.
dc
February 19th, 2013
7:15 am
Yeah, let’s ensure that we don’t provide a way to save the kids who actually want to learn, because that might damage the ones who don’t give a darn….oh, that makes sense…in the crazy world of education land maybe.
How about if we get as many as possible into an environment where they can succeed. Oh, but that wouldn’t be “fair” to the “ones left behind”, so let’s make sure to force ALL kids to stay in their current failing environments, where they can fall behind, join a gang (or be beat on by one), and go to prison.
Are you seriously printing this stuff?
jarvis
February 19th, 2013
7:47 am
I quit reading at “panacea”. The uppity Academia tone had become too much.
Status Quo
February 19th, 2013
7:47 am
I hope the defenders of the status quo realize that people have just loss faith in traditional public schools. The evidence of failure in the current system across america is evident. It is time for significant change and that means allowing school choice…..let the best schools win!
Public education should be for the kids who are left behind. Public assistance is intended for those in challenging circumstances. Every else should choose the education institution that best fits the needs of their family.
Georgia
February 19th, 2013
8:05 am
I stopped reading when I realized that Shanna Miles was leaking the plot to the sequel to “the hunger games”. I’m so sick of people telling the plot to movies and ruining it for everyone else. Gads I hate that.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
8:12 am
“There are no teacher unions in Georgia. PAGE is not a bargaining unit or one that protects jobs. It plays no role in school governance. Please, pay attention before repeating this ridiculous falsehood.”
Which is another reason why teachers post anonymously. Consider that recent Supreme Court rulings have made it possible to construe that a teacher posting about education policy on a blog can be fired for breach of contract. Consider that whistle-blower protection law in Georgia specifically excluded teachers Are the people advocating that teachers post their name just as vociferous in advocating that teachers have adequate protection for doing so?
Because we know PAGE isn’t.
Again, we know there are privateers at work, looking to exploit; but they still serve to starve the beast that has become our educational bureaucracy.
In this case a Somail pirate is an improvement on a North Korean dictator.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
8:17 am
@Georgia Waaay too funny, LOL
Jameson
February 19th, 2013
8:20 am
As adults, we don’t get to opt out.
Parents opt out everyday.
From “Yes We Can” to “Yes They Can.”
Being a good parent costs nothing.
MM
February 19th, 2013
8:22 am
Another step in re-segregating our schools. Why isn’t an equal education a civil right? If King were still alive this would be a major focus (including work that is available and pays.) We are not a good people but, instead, a small people skilled at rationalizing our selfish evil.
Elizabeth
February 19th, 2013
8:23 am
They will be less prepared because the schools will have less money and larger classes, not to mention that many of the experienced teachers will leave and go to the “choice” schools. Eventually there will be 2 classes of schools and 2 classes of people– the educated and the child care educated. That is what George W. Bush wanted and what the Tea Party wants. And it can and will happen unless this nonense is stopped. People already have school choice– pay for private school or home school your children. But do not take money from others who need quality education .
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
8:37 am
If this is the same Shanna Miles who works for APS, you do realize you are working at a school that reported zero violent incidents in the same time period that the Atlanta Police Department logs report going to the school over fifty times in response to criminal activity?
Shill for the system if you want, but don’t blame those who are completely fed up with a system that time and time again has shown a total lack of integrity and want a better choice for their children.
And to even hint that they are somehow morally wrong for this? Morally wrong for not supporting APS?
Seriously Shanna?
Apologies if it’s a different Shanna Miles.
sneak peak into education
February 19th, 2013
8:37 am
For those who think this is a stellar idea, please consider that this is legislation written by your friends, ALEC, whose policies are geared specifically to put education into the hands of private, for-profit companies. They do not care about your children; they care about making money. They will not put your children’s educational needs at the forefront of their decisions but, instead, will be lead by the all mighty dollar sign. Every study shows that charter schools do not provide better educational results in 83% of cases and in many cases, are worse than their traditional counterparts. There are countless cases of charter schools committing fraud and bilking millions of dollars from the public coffers. And please remember, they can be setup with little of no oversight (just look at the steps our legislature took to hide the details of the scholarship plan) and aren’t always held to the same level of accountability as traditional public schools. BUYER BEWARE…
http://dianeravitch.net/2013/02/05/whats-new-at-alec/
williebkind
February 19th, 2013
8:37 am
Because our k1 -k12 is so bad employers recruit college graduates just so they can have someone who can read, write, and do basic math. To their surprise, some of these college graduates can not do that. Make education voluntary and steer those with poor academics toward the military and technical trades. Not everyone should be a doctor or low down lying lawyer.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
8:43 am
“We are not a good people but, instead, a small people skilled at rationalizing our selfish evil.”
ReallyMM? An African American parent who wants to send their child to a charter school because the culture at the public school allows wanton disrespect to be the norm, and they prefer their child be educated with time honored values, and somehow, someway they are “segregationists” who are not good people, but people who “rationalizing” their evil?
Really MM? Really?
I mean really, when you apply facts and logic to some of these posts, you see just how ridiculous they sound…
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
8:50 am
For those who think this is a stellar idea, please consider that this is legislation written by your friends, ALEC, whose policies are geared specifically to put education into the hands of private, for-profit companies.
Yes @sneak we know; we know they are the equivalent of Somali pirates; we also know we are dealing with an educational machine that rivals the “enlightenment” of the North Korean government.
We accept the Somali pirates in the hopes that they will help starve the beast, and being smaller in number, they may be easier to dismantle than the government monolith has been.
A Faustian bargain for sure…
homeschooler
February 19th, 2013
8:51 am
Elizabeth, that’s not fair. Yes, as a home schooler who works nights I have been able to find ways to educate my children without them ever stepping foot in a public school. My oldest is in a small private school and my husband and I are blessed to be able to afford it. Yes, we gave up many other things to do this so, on one hand I agree with you.
However, the people who keep getting screwed in this country are the ones who are working hard every day and they still can’t afford the other options. I’m so tired of hearing about the lower classes because they are not the ones suffering. They are being taken care of. It’s the two parents making 40 thousand combined who can’t qualify for any benefits, can’t qualify for free lunch, day care assistance etc.. They could never afford private school. It’s the single mom making 30 thousand who gets a little bit of child support and is trying to pay rent, groceries etc… on 1,500 dollars a month. How is she supposed to home school? She can’t even afford to put gas in her car. She can’t pay private tuition. The working/middle class is getting the short end of the stick every time. These people are forced to send their kids to failing schools. When they have a charter option they are so excited. They just want their children to succeed. My only real experience with Charter Schools is the Smyrna Charter. I have met numerous kids from that school. Every child I’ve met is African American with parents who are hard working. Most of the time they are intact families or single moms who have high expectations of their children in terms of education. Most are living in apartments or small rental houses. They could NEVER afford private school. They are trying to get away from “undesirables”. They want to be away from the foul language and sexual acts on the school bus. They want to be away from the bullying in the bathrooms. They want their kids to be away from the out of control kids in the classrooms who keep their child from learning.
You people act like the upper middle class people are the ones trying to get into the Charter Schools but I just don’t see it that way. They HAVE other options. The ones who don’t are just trying to do what is best for their kids.
I know a lot of teachers who love working with underprivileged kids. The kids who would be left in the schools if there ever came to be enough Charter options that all the other kids were taken out. These teachers would relish the opportunity to develop programs specifically for these kids. Kids who need a little more “home” learning. Teaching them life skills as well as academics. I envision that the “left behind” kids would be able to thrive because the focus could be on them and they wouldn’t be looked at as the bad kids who are ruining things. Just a thought.
gsmith
February 19th, 2013
8:54 am
this is why you need different schools for different kids!! put the high achievers and our smartest kids in certain schools and have schools for the average kids and then have trade schools for kids that do not have an interest in a traditional education. lets dont bring down our best and brightest to trying to educate everyone at the same level and same speed. please please spare me the story about certain kids that where labeled this and did that …….. those kids are the exceptions NOT THE NORM and we cant bring down our best and brightest because a few kids could overachieve if you put them in a more accelerated learning environment ….. our concern should be our best and brightest not the kids that dont want to learn with parents that could care less about school other than free day care for their kids.
dc
February 19th, 2013
9:00 am
@gsmith, very good point….and the move to school choice also offers other options for parents…in particular, the parents of young boys who are currently being forced to sit at desks for hours on end…as if they are little girls, not rambunctious, wonderfully energetic boys. There is a huge opportunity for someone to open a school aimed at kids who can’t sit all day…but need to learn via an active, hands on approach.
We’d save a fortune on ADHD medication alone, not to mention helping these boys take advantage of the incredible energy they have, vs sending the message to them that they are awful people who need to be disciplined and medicated.
Lisa B.
February 19th, 2013
9:12 am
Perhaps some of the “undesirable” students would straighten up so they, too, could be accepted in “better” schools. I think only a small percentage of students truly cannot control their behavior, while a vast majority of “problem” students act out just for fun. I certainly understand the frustration with public schools. However, I am afraid of the unintended consequences created with this bill. Segregation will certainly occur, as students from poor, dysfunctional families are housed in facilities that could easily become “pipelines to prison.”
Sheryl Reese
February 19th, 2013
9:27 am
Sheesh Beverly Fraud (Fraud….Really?) Take a pill for goodness sake, get a job or run for office, but one comment should suffice. Better yet, get your own blog!
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
9:29 am
To be honest, I’m going to have to agree with what Beverly and homeschooler have already said: I, too, am tired of hearing about those who apparently have not. There will ALWAYS be two classes of people in a free society: those who do what they are supposed to do and those who don’t. Freedom to thrive, succeed, and surpass also comes with the freedom to fail, suffer, and fall further behind. This is not a rationalization or a justification; it is a simply fact of reality. If we choose to continue ignoring reality and letting people suckle from the government, then little will change. In fact, it will get worse.
We should not be shocked that an opportunity for people to take education into their own hands comes with an outcry that this isn’t “fair” to some subset of the population. But freedom isn’t about “fairness.” It is about just the opposite. It is about taking your life into your own hands and making the best of it, using your own hard work, and motivated by nothing else save your own will to succeed.
A reminder: I am part of a two-teacher household, so I am anything but wealthy. I was raised in a two-teacher household, so I grew up anything but wealthy (actually I am far better off than my parents were). In short, I am not advocating personal responsibility from a position of extreme wealth or privilege. I’m advocating personal responsibility from a position of personal responsibility. Imagine that.
hssped
February 19th, 2013
9:33 am
@ gsmith
Yes!! Great idea and I believe we used to do it. It is called tracking and it was deemed racist by those in charge. It works…no doubt. If you went to school in the 1960s-1970s you were probably tracked. Everyone got what they needed and almost all were successful. However, someone, somewhere decided that it was keeping certain populations down. So….no more. One size fits all.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
9:37 am
Sheesh Beverly Fraud (Fraud….Really?) Take a pill for goodness sake, get a job or run for office, but one comment should suffice. Better yet, get your own blog!
@Sheryl there is this function on most computers that allows you to scroll past the posts you find distasteful. I encourage you to employ it at will.
Astropig
February 19th, 2013
9:38 am
I’m much more encourage by reading the responses and commentary to this article than I would have been…Oh, 10 years ago.
People have at long last woken up.The old educrat/teacher union- axis playbook of blaming the parent/blaming the taxpayer has been shot to heck.People are rebelling (in a civil manner,of course) and the results are like watching beautiful flowers bloom.Charters,parent trigger, they are all of a type-new thinking to refresh the learning process in Georgia and bring it up to date.The education cartel wouldn’t clean its own house,so now they’ll clean it anyway…Under less pleasant circumstances.
I often wondered (in my 30’s and 40’s) if I would live to see the days that we live in.I hoped to wake up to the joy that I felt last November when the charter amendment passed.Now I can look forward to a few more of those days before I hang ‘em up.
Thank you, Georgia!
beteachin
February 19th, 2013
9:50 am
I’m just going to keep showing up every single day and doing my best for the students who show up too. If the “good” ones leave, I guess the ones who really need me will get more attention. Maybe that’s the point. As far as my own child goes, I’m just glad I can supplement at home. The Least Restrictive Environment for many kids has made the entire public school pretty darn restrictive for the rest of us. We are doing amazing things with the structure & the students we’ve been given.
Lisa B.
February 19th, 2013
9:53 am
Vendetta, I agree with your post. Homeschooler also makes a valid point; the upper middle class always has more options than those with less money. Many families cannot afford to live in the areas with better schools, etc. Charters will certainly answer the prayers of many. I know the poor will always be with us, but over the years, I’ve seen some of the most unlikely students leave poverty behind because of opportunites provided by public education. I am afraid for those students. I am afraid they will be trapped in terrible schools that have been abandoned by the successful students. I do not know the answer. I do know that many schools are in terrible shape, and something must be done. I am fortunate to work in a rural community with few of the problems found in urban schools.
10:10 am
February 19th, 2013
9:57 am
How depressing it must be, struggling day after day as this column does—to keep parents from having choices for their children.
d
February 19th, 2013
9:59 am
Do we even listen to what businesses say that they want for their workers? Take Kia, for example. They have said that they don’t need college prep students to go down to West Point to build Kias. They need people who can read, do basic math (don’t worry about Math IV), and be competitent in certain soft skills – come to work on time, put your pants on properly, look someone in the eye when you are having a conversation with them, respect, etc. I shudder to think about the students going out into the world saying they are going to be doctors, architects, whatever who can’t seem to form a proper sentence, do simple arithmatic without a calculator, or who took 3 times to finally pass Biology with a 70. We tell kids they can do anything they want, and while that is true, we fail to tell them that they can do anything they want if they are willing to work hard for it. I’ve had students tell me it is not my job to guide them in areas other than the content of my subject. I’ve had students tell me that they “are their own man” and to get out of their face. If these students don’t want to be at school, why are they there? I teach students who have passed the age of compulsary education. Nothing is keeping them there other than their choice.
catlady
February 19th, 2013
10:01 am
It seems that many of the posters express the common thinking: Just let those kids rot because they deserve it! The problem with that is, somewhere along the line you and I and our children are going to interface with those kids, perhaps holding a gun.
I WOULD like to see us develop schools whose focus is first and foremost rehabilitation. That is, schools that focus on the 3 Rs but also on the “soft” skills that make a person fit into our world. If a child comes to school with no goals (or none that will help his succeed in life) these types of schools will be given permission NOT to offer AP Physics, but will focus on activities to develop responsibility, proper grammar, proper dress, proper behavior. And we (and the courts) will give these schools permission to use more coercive means to bring about those changes and developments. These schools would begin at a very early age, and continue through high school. IF a student developed those skills after 4-5 years, they could petition to be allowed back in “regular” school. Perhaps parents would also be prodded to take come classes, or be bereft of some of the benefits they might currently enjoy.
We need to do something different. Right now we are not well serving either group of students–those who are motivated but have to sit in classes that are dumbed down or continually disrupted, and those who are not inculculated with “middle class” skills, attitudes, and beliefs. And until we do something different, our public lives are going to continue to degenerate.
Old timer
February 19th, 2013
10:02 am
Beverly and homeschoolers hit the nail on the head. Parents who care, putting their kids in a school, with children who care….we have to do something. Schools are failing our best and brightest. Something must change.
Clutch Cargo
February 19th, 2013
10:03 am
@10:10
“How depressing it must be, struggling day after day as this column does—to keep parents from having choices for their children.”
Amen, Testify ! (So good that I had to repost it!)
Rational Thinker
February 19th, 2013
10:12 am
In my opinion, there is a growing clamor and push to transform all GA public schools into charter schools under the guise of labeling them as “non-performing”. I am not saying that there are no public schools that are bad or non/low performing; They are. However rather than trying to adopt a defeatist mentality and opt out, why not try to fix them?? If the State of GA puts this much effort in figuring out WHY these schools are “non-performing”, surely the situation can be reversed right?? How difficult is it to look at the high performing public schools plus what makes them tick and make some concerted efforts in modeling other low/non performing public schools after them??
Not all public schools are bad: The ones that are can be reformed, but it seems to me that this rabid push to “throw the baby out with the bath water” by smearing all the public schools with the same brush.
Not everyone can live in swanky neighborhoods with awesome public schools. The reality of life is that there are people who for one economic/social/personal reason or the other, live in neighborhoods that they can afford. Rather than just saying that “oh well, tough luck” that you are stuck in a neighborhood with a bad school, I believe that the State of GA should look for ways to address the root of their low performance and mandate them to adopt ways to improve their current standing, rather than selfishly changing them into charter schools.
We do not live in utopia. There are realities in this world/society we live in and we cannot just get to cherry pick how we get to live lives BECAUSE while we choose to ignore them now, there will be repercussions down the road for every selfish action that we take now.
If I cannot afford it, I cannot just buy a new car just because my current one isn’t working. I have to diligently find ways to fix it first and ONLY when I have exhausted ll my options should I then look at the possibility of buying another one.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
10:13 am
It seems that many of the posters express the common thinking: Just let those kids rot because they deserve it!
@catlady, I think it is fair to say there are those who are thinking let the system rot, because it deserves to rot, in the hopes that, even though Somali pirates abound, something better will come from the decomposing rot.
Lisa B.
February 19th, 2013
10:19 am
Catlady’s suggestion could work if it was implemented correctly. It WON’T work if the project is not properly staffed and fully funded. Catlady made a good point that the “problem kids” don’t go away. They grow up and live in our communities. In the past, there have been success stories about alternative programs that worked. Of course, the programs didn’t work long because either the funding was cut, or the program got loaded up with the least qualified teachers and administrators. I understand that parents want educational choices for their children. Looking at the big picture though, we need to make sure we don’t simply warehouse the :undesirable” students and release them onto the streets without skills to support themselves.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
10:21 am
@catlady, look at the bill concerning retirees you referenced the other day; people put their entire professional lives into the system and the system is still willing to pull the rug out at the end, while richly rewarding the Halls, Augustines, and Atkinsons of the world.
Does this system not deserve to rot?
Don't Tread
February 19th, 2013
10:22 am
As usual, the focus is on the troublemakers in school (broken homes, blah blah blah) instead of the kids who want to learn. How about caring about those kids who want to be productive members of society, and giving them the chance to succeed in school?!
School policy cannot and will not fix a broken moral compass.
retired teacher
February 19th, 2013
10:26 am
Not all children who are left behind are bad kids from poor families who don’t know any better. Many of them are slow learners who are passed through the system via social promotion. Teachers are told to “differentiate” their lessons in order to remediate them. Teachers really can only do so much and those kids just keep getting farther and farther behind until they hit high school and where they eventually drop out.
As Catlady says, there needs to be a serious overhaul of the way schools work. It needs to start in elementary school so that kids who are behind will have a ghost of a chance to catch up. The problem is that parents wont allow it and administrators either can’t or won’t do it. If you created a team of teachers, they really could figure out a way to do it, but politicians won’t listen to those who do know how to get this done.
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
10:27 am
Lisa B and catlady,
I completely understand your points of view, but I think a certain truth needs to be examined in terms of the children you’re afraid of us turning our backs on. It is regrettable that so many children in this country and born to parents who are inept, incapable, or just plain stupid. Children deserve better. But unless we want to start dictating who can and cannot have children–and we certainly don’t want to go down that road–then we must accept that there will be children growing up in deplorable conditions. Furthermore, class and social status have far less to do with the failure of parents and their children than one might think. It is a phenomenon related to CULTURE. I teach at an upper-middle class school, an award-winning one no less, and the statistical failure rate based on basic demographic information would be shocking to you. These kids are not wanting for anything. They have food, shelter, nicer clothes than me, and are often dropped off by parents driving luxury automobiles. Yet they are on free and reduced lunch programs, care not a whit about education, and constantly disrupt the learning environment for the other students.
No, it is not a poverty war we are waging. And I do not feel too bad about those who care about education removing themselves from such a situation…at a middle class school. I can only imagine how those at a lesser school feel.
I don’t want to see any kid “rot” because we don’t care about him or her. But before I’ll care about someone, he or she must first care about themselves.
DeKalb Inside Out
February 19th, 2013
10:33 am
A+ and failing students each deserve a chance to learn.
Ivy Prep and KIPP have successful charters in failing areas. Seems like the Parent Trigger could do the same thing for existing failing schools.
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
10:45 am
What we need is a “board trigger” whereby for example, if 50% + 1 of the people vote for Eugene Walker’s opponent in an election, he wouldn’t be allowed to return to the board and continue to wreck havoc…
Umm…nevermind…
Rational Thinker
February 19th, 2013
10:46 am
@DeKalb Inside Out- While Ivy Prep and KIPP are awesome success stories, what happens to the children who drop out from all Public-turned-charter-schools? I am not advocating that we fold our arms and do nothing, NO.
I am just saying that we collectively look for a way to change the system as a whole, rather than this piece meal approach because soon all that you will have is a segregated system-
Also, follow the money- The state of GA seems to be ground zero of the charter school movement. There are other states that have little or no charter schools, but seem to be miles ahead in terms of the quality of their educational system when compared to Georgia. Why??
Lisa B.
February 19th, 2013
10:47 am
I agree, Vendetta, that student apathy and bad behavior exist in all socio-economic groups. Perhaps offering more choices will impact apathy and bad behavior because students will want to go to the “better” school with their peers. Maybe that will put some accountability back on the students. Rather than street address, their attitude and behavior will determine where they go to school. It could be interesting.
Sandy Springs Parent
February 19th, 2013
10:57 am
Here is what ticks me off to no end. I was sitting in the lobby to the Ridgeview Charter Middle School. While sitting in the lobby the other day, a black women walks in and says that she is new to the area. She asks the secretary about the policy on transfering into the school if you do not live in the zone for the school. The secretary informs her that the governance board voted that for the next year only 20 students from outside the zone would be accepted via lottery, but siblings of existing students had priority. ( AKA no new families). The same thing was voted on at Riverwood.
I told the secretary, what is wrong with these people, don’t you check out the neighborhood school first before you move into the area. But know, They move down by Westlake and South Fulton, live in a $75,000 house, that is bigger and newer than a $400,000 house) the absolute lowest price for a 50 year old unrenovated house) in the Ridgeview/Riverwood District. Or they Pay $500 rent down there in liue of $2,100 rent and then they want to drop their kids off on their way to the job at one of the Hospitals or Medical Offices on Pill Hill. They do not participate in fundraising. They lie on the Free lunch applications, because these jobs pay more than the $22K for Free Lunch. They don’t volunteer. Their Children come ready to fight. If you want to spend your money on your car, your clothes, your weave, then send your children to the school that comes with it.
My child doesn’t need to be bullied by your child who lacks home training. Your child that you named, with a name that will sentance it to prison rather than a CEO position.
Schools should be under local control, by the cities or towns they are located in, to prevent this line jumping. You want to live in South Fulton then send your kids to South Fulton Schools. Don’t Send them to Sandy Springs or Dunwoody, where they don’t want to act White and learn. Where there goal is to bully and distrupt the learning process. We pay $7,000 and up in Property taxes up here on old houses that are falling apart. You have Emma and Bill that keep your taxes under $1,000 go to the West Lake Feeder Schools. Become and active parent and take care of them.
mountain man
February 19th, 2013
10:58 am
The problem with the current schools is that they will NOT address the basic problems within their schools: discipline (thank you, Beverly Fraud), attendance, control of where spending goes (see Dekalb county). If you want parents to quit claoring for more options to get their children out of bad conditions, then CHANGE the bad conditions. I don’t WANT to have to leave the “undesireables” to rot, but when schools won’t DO anything to change the situation, that is all that is left to parents. Parents can’t enforce discipline on other students. Parentss can’t assign troublemakers to alternative classrooms or schools. Only ADMINISTRATORS can do that.
You can thank our weak adinistrators for all of the charter and school choice alternatives being proposed.
mountain man
February 19th, 2013
11:02 am
We NEED a segregated system. Segregated into those who WANT to learn and those that DON’T.
DeKalb Inside Out
February 19th, 2013
11:07 am
Rational Thinker
“Change the system as a whole.”That is rational thinking. Change doesn’t go over very well. Change is perceived as the destruction of traditional public schools. The people in position to make changes are the same people that make a lot of money from the status quo. Change is an uphill battle. –DIO
Inman Parker
February 19th, 2013
11:08 am
The fundamental rsponsibility for education lies with the PARENT! Systems all over this state have forgotten that; a lot of lazy parents have likewise forgotten that. Why are public school employees so afraid of choice? Figure it our for yourself. Why would anyone “choose” a DeKalb County school for their child?
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
11:09 am
Lisa,
True, true. Choice would open up more opportunities for all students, but I fear that to truly offer choice some tracking would be involved–and should be. Then we get cries of “not fair” when someone’s future doctor ends up on track to be an auto mechanic (not that there’s anything wrong with that at all). I’m afraid that as long as parents and students have the freedom to fail they will continue to do so. We might be able to do something to somewhat curb the number and make it less severe, but on a normal statistical grade scale it would (and should!) still represent around 10-20% of the total population.
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
11:11 am
“where they don’t want to act White and learn. ”
Well, it seems clear that Sandy Springs Parent is a racist.
Google "NEA" and "union"
February 19th, 2013
11:19 am
It’s once again necessary to remind readers that there ARE teachers’ unions in Georgia.
Each member of the Georgia Association of Educators pays an extra $168 yearly to belong to the National Education Association—a union (says so right here on their website) which funnels cash into the fight against meaningful education reform in all 50 states.
Workplace militancy isn’t the only defining characteristic of a labor union.
cris
February 19th, 2013
11:26 am
the problem with tracking? It’s all fine and dandy until YOUR kid gets put in a track that you don’t agree with….that plain and simple…we’ve become so politically correct that we’ve destroyed our entire educational system because systems don’t want to deal with litiginous parents who can’t see the forest for the trees….
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
11:32 am
Wow. Some of the posts on here make my stomach turn. To think that some of these people may be some of the adults my son or daughter may encounter when at school is disturbing.
I am a VERY active and participating parent who works full time, goes to school full time and STILL volunteers at my kids’ schools. However, I am also the parent of a special needs child who is in the middle of the IEP process. It has taken me over a year and a half just to get him to this point within the local charter school. I chose this school due to its low student to teacher ratio and because I knew my son had an issue I just didn’t know what it was. I felt as though he would have a better chance to learn by attending this school being that they didn’t have to follow the strict curriculum and that if he learns “out of the box” then he could be taught that way. Conversely, I am beginning to realize that when my daughter was going through a similar process with the local public school, teachers and administrators there too an interest in her instead of brushing her off as just a problem child with parents who didn’t care and who just needed to lay down some corporal punish to their child.
I have begun to get extremely frustrated and disappointed in the local charter and I wasn’t sure why. I mean come on, as involved as we are as parents I thought they would be a little more accommodating. Unfortunately, I can see by most of the posts here from those that advocate for the charters that you all automatically think that any child who is having issues is because their parents are indigent, lazy, moochers, or unconcerned, or the big one, just want babysitters for their kids.
I am starting to see that maybe the problem DOES lie with the parents, but of the parents who choose to judge every child AND their parent before getting to know them.
EVERY child deserves the opportunity to learn and unfortunately for some kids, not EVERY child learns the same way.
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
11:35 am
*showed an interest not “too an interest”
mountain man
February 19th, 2013
11:36 am
“EVERY child deserves the opportunity to learn ”
EXACTLY! And we give every child the OPPORTUNITY to learn. Some don’t or won’t coe to school and some that come to school refuse to learn. They squander that opportunity! That choice is on ths student and more on the PARENT.
d
February 19th, 2013
11:38 am
I was extremely disorganized when I was in 8th grade and although I did my homework – getting it in to the teachers wasn’t always a successful endeavor. When it came time for my 8th grade teachers to recommend placement for me in 9th grade, two of them recommended “academic” level courses while the others saw what I was really capable of and placed me in “honors” courses. I remember being so bored in the academic courses that I asked my mother to request that I be moved to honors English for my sophomore year. She told me (as did the administration) that there was no going back. I had to make sure that I was doing what I needed to in the honors English course. I still had to work on my organization, but I had a much more successful sophomore year because I wasn’t struggling against the boredom.
The point of my story is not that we need students moving into more difficult courses, but rather focus on getting the students more involved in their educational choices. I had an opportunity to attend the National Career Academy Coalition conference in Nashville in November. My cousin teaches in a school up there that was part of one of the tours – unfortunately one that I did not get to attend – but Nashville seems to have a model that is really working. The career academies have the academic teachers working with various career tech teachers to design courses that are aligned with student interests. The results seem to be working. If students are in classes that are aligned with what they are interested in and want to do, they can learn English, History, Chemistry, etc. in ways that help them become engaged in their learning. If we can overcome the boredom, then we should see an increase in the success of our students, and, in turn, our schools.
mountain man
February 19th, 2013
11:39 am
“the problem with tracking?”
Don’t track students into “college” and “vocational” unless they and their parents agree. The tracking that is needed now is into “discipline problems”, “behind grade level”, and excelling students.
mom of 3
February 19th, 2013
11:41 am
Schools cannot do the job of parents!!!!! There is no solution that does not include the parents! Even if a child goes to a perfect school with amazing teachers, the child will more than likely not succeed if they go home to a parent(s) that do not encourage and work with the child at home. Nothing will change until the focus turns to the parents. NOTHING!
marm
February 19th, 2013
12:01 pm
It’s easy to bash the article without taking the time to absorb what it says. What do you do with those children that the Charter schools don’t accept? What do you do with those children who are smart, but live in dysfunctional families that cross all racial and economic lines? Will the Charters take those students that some parents deem “outside the norm”? By the way, where will the special needs students go? From my experience, your typical private school keeps away from students who don’t sit still (unless the parents are very generous), so how accepting will Charters be of those boys and girls?
10:10 am
February 19th, 2013
12:15 pm
@ Sandy Springs parent (10:57 am)
White liberals will no doubt find it convenient to discredit even black middle-class Sandy Springs parents voicing the concerns you list.
I’m sure those parents likewise number more than just a few.
And one day racial politics will redirect toward solving common problems—rather than excusing poor personal decisions or feeding egos.
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
12:17 pm
The onus of responsibility for raising a child should be on the parent. Raising a child includes teaching them fundamentals–ABCs, numbers, counting, some simple sight words, etc.
If you disagree with this statement, you are part of the problem.
Fled
February 19th, 2013
12:20 pm
@Beverly, you are correct about the Faustian bargain–but you should remember the price to be paid.
You will be happy to learn that when students fail and enter the prison pipeline, there is another set of corporate interests willing and ready to profit from their human misery:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/profiting_from_human_misery_20130217/
Education in Georgia isn’t my fight any more so it is probably (long past) time for me to go. I always hoped that the teachers in Georgia would get fed up enough to force the issue, but, as you know, most people don’t have it in them to get up and get where the getting is good.
There are choices for teachers, plenty of them and many of them good, but circumstances and the law of inertia seem to keep y’all on the plantation. The education system in Georgia is broken, maybe beyond repair, but there are good people who are soldiering on every day and trying to teach the students. I gave up a long time ago, so they are better people than I.
Whatever way you go, it’s going to be a long, hard struggle. Bon chance.
Bernie
February 19th, 2013
12:24 pm
The Kids left behind are the ones who will see on the 6pm & 11pm news reporting all the crimes they have committed. They will also be the ones who breaking into our homes and assaulting all those who cross their paths for one reason or another. These Kids are now part of the now growing permanent Crimminal underclass of citizens, where committing crime will be their lifelong career.
Unfortunately, the very same kids that were not left behind will become their many victims as well.
Therefore, we would be wise to find a solution to this problem and fast. Running away and ignoring it does not make the problem go away. Moving away from the Urban areas is not the solution either for you too will be found there as well. Either at home or on your way to the store or some social event your chances of coming face to face with these individuals increases every year. Be Afraid…be very afraid!
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
12:24 pm
@mountainman ~ you missed my point ENTIRELY. If a child shows the desire to learn, but has some underlying issue as to why they cannot learn doesn’t mean they don’t WANT to. You cannot tell a 1st grader with a learning disability that hasn’t been yet addressed that it’s up to him to learn what the teacher is teaching because this is his only opportunity!!
The problem is the superior attitude of certain parents who also pass that thinking on to their children with the “they need to be in classrooms with those who WANT to learn and away from the undesirables”.
As a parent who is at their wits end with trying to get help, I say, I don’t go to the car mechanic already knowing what’s wrong with my car and tell him to fix it. I don’t go to the doctor and tell him what’s wrong so he can fix it. I go to professionals because that is what they are for, that is what they specialize in, and that includes teachers! I don’t know what to teach my son other than the basics. I don’t know what curriculum they follow nor where they should be at certain stages. I do reinforce what he is taught in the classroom, but teaching is not something I was “gifted” with! Stop putting all the kids (and their parents) who are not gifted or top of the class in one bucket!!
V for Vendetta
February 19th, 2013
12:36 pm
oneofeach4me,
The problem is that nearly all teachers are not trained psychologists, so there is very little chance that a classroom teacher could easily identify an underlying learning disability without some assistance. The public schools are woefully under equipped in this regard. A “teaching professional” does not equate to a “psychological professional.” To see such a professional, it usually costs money. Complaining about services you get for free from people who are not trained to deal with what you are talking about seems to be barking up the wrong tree.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:37 pm
tough reality time:
no matter what happens, there will be kids who fall through the cracks. if you’re looking to save every single solitary child, you end up saving nothing at all.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:40 pm
another tough reality time:
if the “choice” many here claim they don’t have and deserve (incorrect, and deserve? not a chance. you earn your way, not get it awarded to you)….
when it doesn’t work exactly how they want it to, they’ll find a new way to blame anyone but themselves.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:42 pm
@ elizabeth
got a challenge for you. try to go a week without some pointless, incorrect, and out of context reference to Bush and the Tea Party.
give it a try.
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
12:44 pm
@V ~ I am fully aware of that. I didn’t say I want the teacher to tell me how to deal with a psychological disability. I also don’t recall me complaining. However, teachers CAN see when a child is applying themselves but are having trouble learning or retaining the lessons. However, that is of no importance because I myself advocated to get that procedure started over a year and a half ago. And just so you know, I took him to get a private eval FIRST. However, the way the system works, he has to go through the process and be evaluated by a school board psychologist as well. Again, you assumed I was complaining about FREE services. Figures.
I have no problem paying for psychological services for my son, the same way I pay for his uniforms, books, lunches, shoes, and endless fundraising. My point was to counter the “it’s the parent’s duty” in regards to teaching. I teach him the basics, just as I understand I need to change the oil in my car, take my vitamins, drink water, etc.
When I said “As a parent who is at their wits end with trying to get help” I didn’t mean I expect these services to be free. Just some knowledge, or a point in the right direction, or some recommendations, and a little compassion is ALL the help I was referring to.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:44 pm
what is both sad and arrogant is the assertion kids who get left behind are destined for a life of crime and failure.
totally ignores character, drive, and desire.
old teach
February 19th, 2013
12:47 pm
As a public school teacher, I feel the public school model is the best device to to carry out the American mantra of educating every child. And I feel that ability tracking and guidance counselors’ steering the students through their choices represent methods that allow the students to master appropriately-difficult, relevant courses to prepare them for postsecondary careers/education. But schools have lately been saddled with lack of discipline enforcement, lack of grouping (except for students’ educating their peers by design), and incidents of parents’ overruling school course placement (to make it easier to qualify for HOPE). Throw in NCLB, the devastating recession-causing financial cutbacks, teacher-bashing, and epic failures of a few high-visibility systems. Now we have a recipe for change–any kind of change. Enter the charter schools amendment and parent trigger. Personally, I believe that, if the Legislature devoted as much effort to improving the traditional public schools in Georgia as it has devoted to introducing and diverting funding to charter schools (along with purposely vague tax funded scholarships with absolutely no oversight), the traditional systems would be dramatically improved.
Although proponents for both sides of the charter school issue say it’s for the children, I say to follow the money. And although, on the surface, the amendment sounds good, I fear what we are creating is “separate-but-equal” schools.
d
February 19th, 2013
12:50 pm
@google – meaningful doesn’t necessairly mean sane, useful, or good.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:51 pm
@ oneofeach
at the risk of offending most everybody here, your son -nor people like him- is not served be being mainstreamed. mainstreaming is possibly the worst thing to hit public education in the last 60 years.
special needs kids deserve and should be in classes and schools which specialize in creating a safe and nurturing environment.
mainstreaming wastes time, teaching effectiveness, fiscal resources, and worse of all damages most special needs kids far more than they ever help.
the best possible use of charters would be to create schools aimed at serving these kids to the best of their natural abilities.
DeKalb Inside Out
February 19th, 2013
12:53 pm
Amendment 1 and Parent Trigger laws are not “panacea” but tools in the tool belt. We have vouchers for some IEPs as well as schools like Destiny Academy. Along those lines, please employ tools that help children even if one particular tool doesn’t help 100% of the students?
What's Best for Kids?
February 19th, 2013
12:56 pm
@Sandy Springs Parent:
I double dog dare you to say that using your own name.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
12:56 pm
@ Sandy Springs
probably the stupidest thing on earth is exactly what you claim to have done
fussed at the secretary.
he/she has no control over policy, but damn sure can make sure you spend the rest of your life in the waiting room and that you kid is at the bottom of whatever pile which crosses her desk.
don’t act like a carpetbagging yankee. unless you want to be treated like one.
dahreese
February 19th, 2013
12:57 pm
Status Quo says above, “I hope the defenders of the status quo realize that people have just loss faith in traditional public schools.” [Ahem!, the word should "lost].
Some of the defenders of the status quo are teachers whose children attend public schools.
Could we not think that if anyone wanted better education for their children, it would show up by having a majority of teachers enrolling their own children in charter and private schools?
But that doesn’t seem to be happening, so perhaps the general gullible public ought to be asking, why?
Do classroom teachers who keep their children in public schools know something that the general public does not?
That said, the critics of public education, most of whom have never taught, are various and have various reasons for their criticisms.
Some, who apparently have nothing better to do all day, just like to spout and see their criticisms on this screen. Beverly Fraud is an outstanding example.
The fact is that failing politicians need a scape goat for their decades of failure to properly fund public education, and the classroom teacher is it.
Should we not wonder also, that if public education monies were spent to promote public education and its accomplishments(as corporate money has been spent to denigrate it in order to gain control of taxpayer eduational monies) the taxpayer would be furious?
Forget the White House, forget Congress, the Pentagon, Homeland Security, the FBI, the CIA and Wall Street; the backbone of this country is public education.
You don’t have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
1:00 pm
@ Sandy Springs
can’t help but wonder if your issues are that your baby dumpling won’t be as special, or if the color of the skin of the new parent unhinged you.
hint: even in the “best” districts, most of the upper class white people don’t donate time or money either.
Looking for the truth
February 19th, 2013
1:16 pm
This law is, seemingly, created for parents who care about their child’s education. (By “care”, I mean they show up for parent conferences and are available to discuss their childs progress by phone or e-mail – if not in person.) Charter schools may seem like a panacea for some students, but for all their talk about having one, there will always be parents out there who think involvement in their child’s education is something to avoid. After all, schools and administrators are paid to do their jobs, right?
This bill sounds like resegregation to me – between parents who choose to be involved and parents who choose not to be involved. Doesn’t that hurt the child?
atlmom
February 19th, 2013
1:18 pm
I do find it incredibly interesting that Obama came to GA to show the world what a great program GA has for Prek.
The PreK program is the epitome of school choice. A parent finds a slot – signs the kid up – and the state pays for it.
That is ALL about school choice (which, by the way, the Obamas have). So, if it’s great for PreK – why not k-12?
Seriously? Because, well, we all know the feds are the ones who have screwed up K-12 schooling, let’s just let them screw up PreK too!
Jack ®
February 19th, 2013
1:21 pm
Miles got it right: more prisons. Big prisons. There is a segment of our population that will never be able to live in a civilized society.
atlmom
February 19th, 2013
1:24 pm
bootney: the govt has spent decades teaching people that they should just drop their kids off at the school – and the govt will do the rest. the reality is that we are all educating our children, all the time…it’s just what you are actually teaching them…
But people are perfectly happy to abdicate their responsibilities…we see that all the time…
catlady
February 19th, 2013
1:25 pm
V–It would be laughable to think that these kids won’t grow up to over-populate our schools with even more uninvolved students (their children) and their issues. We really need to put it to a halt. Step in and forcefully change the way these students are taught and, even more important, WHAT they are taught (basic skills for achievement). And I don’t really think we should do it for these kids, but rather for ourselves and our children.
Beverly, I don’t think it is the system is rotten; it is the “leadership” the system has to labor under that is rotten. And it is increasingly common in this world, it is manipulated so that the “leaders” benefit, and to h3ll with everyone else!
oneofeach4me
February 19th, 2013
1:28 pm
@bootney farnsworth ~ in regards to mainstreaming… I couldn’t agree with you more.
living in an outdated ed system
February 19th, 2013
1:28 pm
Please help me understand the intent of these “letters” that people get posted on this blog. I must confess that it seems the intent of this letter is to simply illustrate the mindset of folks who see change as a threat, and not as an opportunity. It feels like the point of view of someone still living in the days of the mass-standardization approach to public education.
Why is it that people believe that public school choice and parent triggers spell the end of public education and that kids will be “left behind?” While I will not state unequivocally that I am pleased with the current wording of HB123 (I feel it should only relate to failing schools and that a local school board should not be allowed to override a petition), school choice is supposed to be about sparking innovation and helping foster change in a system that has shown time and time again it is not able to change without competition or enabling legislation. Charter Schools are only one example of innovation – we need to give EVERY child a quality education, and for many children in our state, their SOLE public school option is a failing school. If schools embrace technology, they could be operated at a cost that is SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the way they operate today. And that doesn’t mean teachers lose jobs. However, we need to implement a fair and balanced system that measures effective teachers and rewards strong teachers while transitioning out teachers who are hurting, not helping students.
I can write a book in response to this letter, but the bottom line is that we need to give our children quality public school options, and if a public charter school or blended learning program can innovate while being held to a higher accountability standard (which it is, although our system has shown a reluctance to close failing schools, whether charter or traditional), then we must continue down that path. Eventually, the traditional public schools with innovate, or we will be stuck with a large scale equivalent of the US Postal Service.
bootney farnsworth
February 19th, 2013
1:29 pm
the backbone of this nation is NOT public education.
what an ignorant statement
atlmom
February 19th, 2013
1:35 pm
oneofeach4me: i totally hear you! The schools don’t know what to do, getting help via a psychologist is almost impossible, etc etc, unless your kid has an easily diagnosable condition.
Try getting help from any of those places that are supposed to be helping you – if your kid just isn’t doing well, or whatever (and by well, I mean – um, 99%ile for all tests he has ever took, completely bored in the classroom – but not getting what he needs, so, since he is crafty, he is disruptive).
Beverly Fraud
February 19th, 2013
2:10 pm
Some, who apparently have nothing better to do all day, just like to spout and see their criticisms on this screen. Beverly Fraud is an outstanding example.
@dahreese I will have you know that spending the majority of time in my mother’s basement does not preclude me from making valuable contributions to society.
And yes, some doublewide trailers do have a basement, thank you very much!
John
February 19th, 2013
2:31 pm
The greatest problem is this: your child vs. society at large. Students whose parents are willing and edcuated on the process advocate and get them into charter schools. Students whose parents are failing them, don’t. It seems like the right thing to do, get your child out. But what people fail to see is the impact on society as a whole. Advocate for your child at the school they are zoned and society and that school all benefit. Run for the hills and get out, well, plan on paying the price later with crime and more prison beds.
John
February 19th, 2013
2:35 pm
Andy: you blamed the teacher unions in Georgia. There are no teacher unions in Georgia, Georgia is a right to work state. There are “so called unions” that only give representation to teachers but no bargaining aspect. The lack of teacher unions in Georgia is part of the problem. People don’t go into teaching due to the lack of unions, bargaining and representation. Did you know that for the last 5 years city teachers have continued to decrease their pay? They have been frozen in salary, paid more in insurance and have been furloughed. Can you say the same for other educated professions that they are working more for less money? No, it is a shame.So your blame on unions that don’t exist is wrong.
John
February 19th, 2013
2:40 pm
Sandy Springs Parent: Way to Call it like it is, you couldn’t be more right on!! And I’m Black!!
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
3:31 pm
I thank the Lord for Maureen. Her columns attract really smart, thoughtful posters. Except for me.
Here is what I’m looking at: children need to be in schools. What?!
Children don’t necessarily need to be in schools. What?!
My most memorable experiences include taking two boys to 9000+ feet in the California Sierras, Colorado Rockies, and Nevada Great Basin National Park. Also trout fishing in Montana, going way north to British Columbia, and south to Baja. Of course, we skiied through the trees in deep “pow” and caught mahis and ahis.
The coolest thing is my kids like coming home. We’re not “alienated”. My kids love visiting their grandparents, who are totally weird people. I mean absolutely strange.
My oldest son is in the army, my middle is teaching hs physics in Asia, my youngest just failed his PhD-track exams, had a good time teaching summer school last summer.
My wife is fighting a malpractice suit, even though she’s the doctor you want to have taking care of your baby.
Thurston Howell IV
February 19th, 2013
3:34 pm
@John
” There are no teacher unions in Georgia, Georgia is a right to work state. There are “so called unions” that only give representation to teachers but no bargaining aspect.”
Yet…On payday this month,teachers from Trenton to Folkston will turn over part of their hard won earnings to NEA , a union by their own admission. So why would these seemingly rational people,who are just a paycheck ahead of a sheriffs sale, give their money to an organization that can do so little for them?
You people are being played.
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
4:03 pm
Ms. Downey is publishing awesome blogs. You posters are thoughtful. Every one of you.
I’m going to throw a monkey-wrench into this. Do we really need public schools, or any schools?
We start with 5-6-7 year olds. They have to be taught by people other than their parents. Who came up with this idea, and why did they come up with this idea?
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
4:21 pm
I have this DIL. She wants to do a circumnavigation. Her parents have a Beneteau 45. She’s negotiating with her parents to let her take their boat around the world, or fail.
homeschooler
February 19th, 2013
4:23 pm
Good thought Home-tutoring parent. I’ve often said we could save a ton of money by doing away with Public Kindergarten (which is funny because now we’re talking about mass education of 4 yr olds). Seriously though, brick and mortar schools from age 6-16 would be my proposal. Before that, moms, dads, day care centers or maybe community organized learning centers or churches could teach kids basic ABC’s. Most kids are ready to learn by age 6 and I’ve seen many, many home schooled children who have had no formal education before age six quickly pick up reading, writing and basic math. We had a very good educational system when everybody started school in 1st grade. I went to kindergarten but was only slightly more prepared for 1st grade than those who didn’t.
17 and 18 yr olds could have the following options. Get a GED and go to work, enter an technical program to prepare for a trade or take on-line classes to get a high school diploma and hopefully go on to college.
When you home school you realize how ridiculous it is that our educational system works the way it does. Academically and developmentally there is no reason for kids to be in school before age 6 and in todays world of technology there is no reason for 17 and 18 yr olds to be housed in a building for 8 hrs a day.
Take away the component of “parents have to work and kids need to be supervised” and we could save a ton of money.
Home-tutoring parent
February 19th, 2013
4:38 pm
This girl took my son to Brooklyn. He hooked up with a boat builder.
Then tThey moved to the Med, bought a “fixer upper” small sailboat, and fixed it up.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
February 19th, 2013
5:30 pm
Homeschooler and Home-tutoring parent,
Both of you had the option of staying home and educating your children. Be grateful for that, but don’t assume that everyone has the financial ability, educational background or patience to do so.
I am beginning to see a push by some individuals in the political area who wish to use “homeschooling” as yet another tactic to remove options from women and force them back into the home and out of the workforce. I dislike seeing the homeschooling movement used as a political football by anyone – and that goes for those who villify homeschoolers as well. If a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom, and has the ability to do so, more power to her. My own mom was a stay at home mom, and I will forever be grateful she was there for me in my early years. However, not all women want to make that choice, and they should not be pressured into feeling it is their duty to do so.
FlaTony
February 19th, 2013
5:53 pm
This move is a cop-out by our state leaders to address the true problems. They are literally walking away from the children of our state and their learning needs. They are refusing to provide adequate resources for schools to do their jobs, and they continue to move legislation that is detrimenttal to ourr public schools. The vast majority of our schools are doing a good job. Yet, we are all penalized by the politicians.
GrD
February 19th, 2013
10:07 pm
These “parent trigger” parents think they know about education. I wish they would put all this passion into PARENTING! Always talking about their gifted child/ren, who do not want to do the classwork. Most parents are in denial, thinking the child is a “genius”! They all think their children are geniuses, but come to school exhausted, distracted, and are there for the teacher to “entertain” them because they are “bored.” These parents cannot and will not accept the fact that their child is not a genius, and take all their waking hour trying to discredit the teacher, school, and school system.
AlreadySheared
February 20th, 2013
9:40 am
So, following through on the author’s plague/sanatorium model, she seems to think it’s better to keep the healthy in close quarters with the sick. Why? Who does this?
An old, out-of-use idiom is ‘one bad apple spoils the barrel’. Ms. Miles is much more concerned about reducing the average numbers of bad apples in a classroom than she is with the disruptions that the good apples have to suffer through.
John
February 20th, 2013
10:26 am
Thurston Howel IV
No teacher in Geogia HAS to pay dues to a union, it is voluntary and by most accounts no one does, those people you know in Trenton et al are fools for doing it. AGAIN Georgia is a right to work state and no one has to belong to a union. These “teacher” unions are false and do nothing but give you a lawyer for inital action but no representaiton after one meeting. The people you know are foolish for CHOOSING to belong to one. They should save their money for a real lawyer if one is needed.
Ole Guy
February 20th, 2013
2:24 pm
I know nobody want’s to hear nor read this and will, once again, scoff indignation at the very thought…SHUDDER…ZOUNDS Batman…
“What will we do for the children who find themselves…”left behind”?” is the big question which keeps folks up at night a-frettin’ an a-sweatin’. YOU KICK EM IN THE SIX, THAT’S WHAT YOU DO. We keep emiting dogma and pontification over the need for academic rigor, then we turn around and say…”Oh, the poor children who (through absolutely no fault of their own) are left behind”…GET A FREQUIN LIFE!
As I have so-often pointed out, EVERYONE…the schools, the parents; teachers, the Easter Bunny, Santa; even the good humor man selling ice cream bars…all need to stop pissing around with these kids. These are the very same kids who, as adults, will demand “special-case handling” throughout their miserable lives (recall an earlier blog where the college kid brings his disatisfaction, over a grade, to the court’s attention. As I poingnantly brought out in that blog, these kids…regardless of their status as college grads, etc, will most-suredly grow up to be nothing but losers in life’s dirty little game of “take it on the chin, get up, and get back in”.
You can continue to spew concern over the bumpy roads over which these kids must traverse, or you can teach them to mimick that bunny commercial where the bunny “keeps on tickin’ and takes a lickin’. Like those gd college kids who protest what they feel are injustices in the grading process, they learn that their choices are limited to two: 1) roll over and capitulate to the “tough times” or 2) get up, wipe the “blood” off, and get on with it.
These kids who “find themselves left behind” will…with the help of teachers who dare to demand just a little more than the kid thinks he is capable of…ultimately prevail. By constantly fretting over their “discomforts”, all we do is set them up for ultimate failure.
Have a good day, Prof!