Democrats want to tweak HOPE Scholarship again. Give full HOPE to top 3 percent of class
The Democrats in the Senate are getting busy on education issues.
One of their chief targets is the Zell Miller Scholarship, the top tier HOPE award that goes to high school graduates who perform well in both GPA and SAT. Democrats want to expand the scholarship to students who graduate in the top 3 percent, regardless of their SAT score.
Zell Miller scholars must graduate high school as the valedictorian or salutatorian, or with at least a 3.7 grade-point average and a 1200 on the SAT’s math and reading sections. While in college they must maintain a 3.3 GPA. HOPE scholars must maintain a 3.0. So far, 11,600 Zell Miller scholars receive payments through the program.
Most high school grads in the state don’t meet that higher bar but qualify for HOPE Lite if they have a 3.0 grade point average. HOPE Lite is based on available lottery funds and thus subject to fluctuations. The governor created two tiers of HOPE awards in 2011 to cut down on the scholarship program’s escalating costs.
In its first year, Zell Miller Scholarships went largely to suburban Atlanta students, according to an AJC investigation. That has been a point of contention for rural areas of the state where students face great economic challenges in affording college. Those rural students post similar GPAs to their suburban counterparts, but trail them in SAT performance, which knocks them out of the running for a Zell Miller scholarship.
The AJC found:
● Schools in the five most populous metro Atlanta counties — Cobb, DeKalb, Fayette, Fulton and Gwinnett — graduated almost half of the students eligible for the Zell Miller award. The proportion tipped beyond when a smaller metro county, Forsyth, was added, even though those six counties account for just one-third of the state’s high school seniors.
● Metro Atlanta students from seven ZIP codes, including those for Alpharetta, Marietta and Lawrenceville, received a total of $8 million in Zell Miller Scholarships. That’s about 15 percent of the money in the program awarded by mid-January. The average award for ZIP codes was $75,566, with some receiving far less.
● All of the 15 high schools graduating the most Zell Miller scholars are within about 45 miles of Atlanta.
Democrats will have a struggle in the Republican-run Statehouse making any changes to the Zell Miller program but here is their statement on some of their goals this session:
Sens. Steve Henson, D-Tucker, Lester Jackson, D-Savannah, Jason Carter, D-Decatur, Freddie Powell Sims, D-Albany, Vincent Fort, D-Atlanta, introduced vital higher education legislation aimed at increasing access to the HOPE Scholarship and other higher education options across the state in order to help boost Georgia’s economy.
Senate Democratic leader Henson appointed Sens. Carter and Sims as co-chairs to a special Senate Task Force on Education. The task force will gather information on K-12 and higher education, with a special emphasis on the challenges faced by rural Georgians.
“Under the current administration, we simply have less actual educating going on, from beginning to end. In K-12, we have fewer school days and larger class sizes. In higher education, we have seen a massive reduction in the number of students in technical colleges, and for the first time in recent memory, we saw a drop in the number of students going to our colleges and universities,” said Carter.
“And these issues are hitting rural Georgia the hardest. Georgia’s current leadership has ignored South Georgia for long enough. It’s time to find some real solutions,” he said.
Sens. Carter and Sims will pursue those solutions while on a rural Georgia listening tour. They, along with other senators, House members and education officials, will seek input from school boards, local elected officials, parents, and students regarding the challenges facing their schools and families.
Sen. Sims introduced a bill that would improve access to the Zell Miller Scholarship for students from across the state. It calls for merit to be judged based upon performance in school, rather than performance on the SAT.
Sen. Jackson introduced two resolutions intended to grow and diversify the HOPE scholarship program.
One resolution calls for expansion of the Zell Miller scholarship, a product of the 2011 attempt to reform HOPE, by extending full tuition eligibility to the top three percent of all graduating public school students in Georgia. Jackson said this measure would not only ensure the award reaches more students, but would also make the program more cost-effective.
“The purpose of the HOPE Scholarship program is to make college affordable to all deserving Georgia students, but past reform coupled with devastating cuts to higher education funding have steered the program off this course. Only by obtaining information on the current health HOPE can we more forward with full restoration,” Jackson said.
As currently implemented, the Zell Miller Scholarship eligibility requirements allow for a grossly inequitable distribution of funds. Only 10,016 of the 26,000 eligible students were recipients last year with suburban counties having significantly more Zell Miller Scholars than their rural counterparts, most of whom attend the states most expensive institutions at a time when tuition cost are skyrocketing.
{I asked for clarity on why 26,000 students met Zell Miller eligibility but only 10,016 were getting the scholarship. That meant 16,000 Georgia high school grads chose not to attend Georgia colleges despite a full tuition ride. According to the spokeswoman for the Senate Democrats, “That 26,000 represents the total number of students around the state eligible for the program. The 10,016 who took the scholarship is a compilation; the reasons for the disparity comes from a range of issues, including: some students moving out of state, attending schools out of state, etc. Because the HOPE requirements are now so high — between SAT and GPA — many students who qualify for HOPE may also qualify for other institutions (maybe even some Ivy League schools, in the case of Zell Miller.) While this number is shocking, the number most shocking is the disparity between north Fulton suburbs and rural student recipients.”}
Jackson’s second resolution urges the Georgia Student Finance Commission, a state agency the oversees lottery disbursement funds for HOPE, make available pertinent demographic data needed to initiate comprehensive reform of the program to ensure its future sustainability.
According to Jackson, GSFC current refusal to release information on the scholarship program will only put it in further jeopardy.
–from Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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76 comments Add your comment
Mountain Man
February 6th, 2013
4:20 pm
Just another way to try to make HOPE a need-based rather than a merit-based scholarship. So the student from East Cobb, with a 2200 SAT score doesn’t get full HOPE, but the student from East Bumpkinsville, with a SAT score of 1800, gets full HOPE.
I Teach Writing
February 6th, 2013
4:22 pm
I’ve previously said that I favor an overhaul of the HOPE system to integrate a need-based component in addition to the current HOPE academic requirements.
But I’ve also said that I like the way the Miller Scholars program is set up because it rewards truly high-achieving students regardless of family income, so there’s no way I would support this proposal. Retool HOPE completely? Sure. But keep the Zell Miller in place to reward the best of the best.
I might even suggest, based on the percentage of Miller awardees who are declining the scholarship, that it would be a good idea to tweak the requirements one notch higher and offer awardees a stipend toward room and board. All full-tuition rides are created equal, in terms of cost to the student, so they’d need an extra incentive to pick, say, UGA over of top-tier academic school out of state. If we want to keep the very best young Georgians in Georgia, let’s not compromise on that part of the plan.
Mom of 3
February 6th, 2013
4:23 pm
“All of the 15 high schools graduating the most Zell Miller scholars are within about 45 miles of Atlanta.”- This constitutes a very large part of the population of Georgia. The rural areas may cover a lot of miles, but they do not have the density of people the metro Atlanta has. I would love to see these comparisons along side the population comparisons.
I Teach Writing
February 6th, 2013
4:23 pm
*over top-tier schools (not sure where the “of” came from)
Mr. Georgia
February 6th, 2013
4:29 pm
When are our politicians going to get a clue? Georgia students who are high academic achievers and come from middle class families don’t need scholarships or more aid to incentivise them to attend college! This is ignorant! Scholarship funds need to be allocated to low-income and first generation college students. By supporting this segment of students the return on the investment is much and quite remarkable! It contributes to the revitilization of the economy because we have a more educated workforce and can assist in breaking the cycle of poverty. The money that is saved from the reduction in inmates incarcerated could easily assist int he effort and make Georgia a more desirable place to live, invest in and grow a business. WAKE UP!!!
Robert
February 6th, 2013
4:39 pm
So, Democrats don’t believe in equal standards for everyone? Instead, they want subsidies for low-income communities, rather than rewards for those who earn the scholarship.
Just Sayin.....
February 6th, 2013
4:42 pm
” Those rural students post similar GPAs to their suburban counterparts, but trail them in SAT performance, which knocks them out of the running for a Zell Miller scholarship.”
Can you say, “Grade Inflation?”
The SAT performance is what is going to normalize the otherwise arbitrary grades give out by different teachers. I graduated in the top 10 in my class. Neither the valedictorian or salutatorian took a course load as hard as mine, nor did they score as well on the SAT. Fair? No.
There is something wrong when a valedictorian or salutatorian score 200 pts less on the SAT than the 4th, 5th or 6th place guy. There is something wrong when the top performers of a rural school score significantly less on the SAT than their counterparts in the suburban schools. And that “something wrong” has to do with the level of courses taken, and grade inflation.
HOPE should NOT be “needs based”. The high performing truly needy students have ample grants and scholarships available to them. The high performing middle class do not.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
4:57 pm
here we go again….
the democrats are not gonna stop until its just another social program.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
5:00 pm
@ mr georgia
do you have any idea how much it costs to send a child to college?
any at all?
for most middle class people who you think don’t need it, it can cost more than they take home in a year.
‘course, the rest of you post is straight out of moveon.com, with little base in real world realities. so….
Anonymous
February 6th, 2013
5:01 pm
While those supporting this change “mean well,” it ignores the whole idea of rigor of high school classes. A child taking basic level courses can have a higher GPA than a child taking more rigorous or gifted or AP courses, but who should we really reward with scholarships?
Our high school does not rank students for precisely that reason.
I think the more interesting thing is that more than half of those eligible for Zell Miller scholarships chose not to take them.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
5:03 pm
I can promise you at some districts the top 3% are still gonna be well under the GPA.
Centrist
February 6th, 2013
5:05 pm
Why waste time on a dead end issue?
The Governor, legislature, and the majority of the electorate are satisfied with the Hope Scholarship. Liberals trying to revert to a means testing entitlement from being merit based are not going to have their way this decade.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
5:05 pm
@ Anonymous,
you’re much kinder than I am. this is a blatant attempt at class warfare. funny thing is, the ones pushing it aren’t hurting for money themselves.
I’ve yet to encounter a Carter who didn’t have one eye on my wallet and the other on who they want to give it to.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
5:07 pm
its time to put and end to this false HOPE. that’s the fastest way to bring the cost of college in Georgia
hssped
February 6th, 2013
5:10 pm
Don’t do it. Bad idea.
Atlanta Mom
February 6th, 2013
5:33 pm
So, if my child attends a rural school where physics and calculus are not even offered, you believe he should score as high on the SAT as the child who has been in AP classes since sophomore year? Really?
Mary Elizabeth
February 6th, 2013
5:37 pm
In my 16 years in supervising that the Nelson Reading Test was administered to all incoming 9th grade students in my suburban high school, of approximately 1,800 African-American students, I found that curriculum teachers were invariably surprised to learn of the range of reading scores of their students. Approximately 500 students were tested yearly in 9th grade. The range of test scores for those students, yearly, was from 4th grade reading level (in vocabulary and comprehension) to grade level 16 (senior in college level). Approximately half of the 500 students were reading on 6th grade level, or below, in 9th grade, annually. Teachers were not aware of the extent of the range of reading variances among their students until they received this precise data for each of their students. They were able to more effectively address the wide range of differences among their students once they had this knowledge. I encouraged each teacher to record the grade level equivalent in reading comprehension scores (Ex.: 5.2 or 13.4) beside each student’s name on their class rosters in their grade books, so that they could see, at a glance, where each student was functioning in reading, at that point in time. I believe that that knowledge, of precise reading functioning, would help many more teachers to adjust their instruction in order effectively to help many more students within their curriculum areas, especially if teachers were to be trained in reading-in-the-content-area techniques.
In that most high schools do not give annual Nelson Reading Tests to all of their students, administering a yearly standardized test, in which reading (and mathematics) grade level equivalents, or percentile levels, are determined and recorded for each student, could serve the same insightful instructional purpose as did the administration of the Nelson Reading Tests, in my experiences, if those standardized test results are properly utilized for instructional purposes.
I agree, however, that testing should not overwhelm the school’s agenda, nor redirect curriculum to make it more mundane, nor place undue stress on students or teachers. I, also, believe that testing should be done for diagnostic purposes and not for punitive purposes that would effect a teacher’s job security.
Kris
February 6th, 2013
5:42 pm
I could be wrong, They need to remember that the 1800 sat scores parents are the ones that buys the lottery scam tickets.
Georgia 50th in political ethics
Georgia 48th + in education.
Atlanta Mom
February 6th, 2013
5:52 pm
” Liberals trying to revert to a means testing entitlement from being merit based’
How about liberals trying to revert the HOPE to the original intent of the program?
The lottery passed with a 100,000 vote margin, 2 million votes cast.
It’s quite possible, had the program been proposed as it is currently being operated, it would have never passed.
Pardon My Blog
February 6th, 2013
5:56 pm
There are plenty of need based “scholarships” especially for minority students but not so much for a white male. We are a middle class family who, without HOPE (that my son worked hard to get the grades), would not be able to afford to send him to college irregardless of his high GPA, scores, etc. Keep the HOPE merit based and encourage the kids to work hard to achieve their goals! Forget these left wing Dems who want everyone dependent on them for a hand out, they are just enslaving you to the whims of the Government!
agent
February 6th, 2013
6:17 pm
Mr. Georgia,
To put it nicely, you are a freakin moron. Really? Middle class kids don’t need any scholarships or financial aid. This is unbelievable. I guess you really can’t fix stupid. This is the only country in the world where “poor” people are given every incentive in the world to stay poor.
yuzeyurbrane
February 6th, 2013
6:19 pm
How about quality affordable college education for all who meet required admissions standards? No need for a tuition scholarship if you eliminate tuition.
Wilbur
February 6th, 2013
6:19 pm
So a student with poor SAT scores but a grade inflated GPA who comes from a wealthy family in small town Georgia would get preferential treatment to middle class kid who came from the “wrong” suburban county. The democrats are just blowing smoke to fire up their base with the injustice of the moment.
They can’t stand the idea of a true merit based anything. Democrats depend on an angry electorate, wronged by life for their political life.
Beck
February 6th, 2013
6:22 pm
Pardon – Irregardless isn’t a word. Stop the name calling and check out the dictionary.
Maureen Downey
February 6th, 2013
6:32 pm
@Wilbur, My thinking on this issue was altered after I read the book “Crossing the Finishing Line” and interviewed the author. Here is part the story I wrote about it:
NewsReader
February 6th, 2013
6:47 pm
I don’t get that somehow, because a child happens to live with parents who give a damn about their education should be penalized for that fact when a choice is made as to who gets a scholarship and who doesn’t. One child isn’t more or less deserving of a scholarship than any other except for merit and merit alone. You can never get class warfare to end as long as you continue to benefit one at the expense of the other. As to the person who wants to know when our politicians are going to get a clue? They’re not. They’re going to do whatever they have to do to get re-elected and maintain the power that comes with that position.
Mary Elizabeth
February 6th, 2013
6:49 pm
My 5:37 pm post, above, was actually meant for the previous thread, “. . .Two views of the growing anti-testing campaign among teachers. . .” – where I have now posted it. My apologies.
Truth in Moderation
February 6th, 2013
7:05 pm
The Democrats will do ANYTHING to make you forget about the growing Dominican Republic/ Senator Menendez/Dr. Melgen SCANDAL!
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
7:09 pm
i think everyone should pay the same tuition, and also that the state should not (emphasis) be in the gaming business.
catlady
February 6th, 2013
7:12 pm
Is anyone in the legislature going to do something about the Lottery Corporation thumbing its nose at the legislature, its authorizers? Such as, continuing to give bonuses (just calling it something else) and still not giving the full percentage to the HOPE?
THOSE are the most pressing questions.
catlady
February 6th, 2013
7:14 pm
I hold that the legislature should remove the authorization from the current Georgia Lottery Corporation, and put out requests for bids from other entities!
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
7:18 pm
Yet fewer than 60 percent of college freshmen graduate in four years, a tremendous waste of money and productivity.
Where does the state or anyone else have any business telling people what time frame they should attend / complete a college degree in? A lot of people need to take a break, stop and recharge for reasons of sanity, re-connecting to the real world, or simply earning money to make ends meet. Or who knows, maybe they want to travel and gain perspective? Where did this doctrine of “continuous college until completion” come from, much this doctrine is cost / loss, etc. I don’t buy into it and I think it is nanny-state manipulation where adults are treated as something other than adults. Colleges set the time frames on how long students can take a break and return to their degree programs and that is the college’s business and based on some reasonable norms (5-8-10 years?) not some loss/efficiency scenario. Why are people being treated as objects in this manner, as if they do not have lives, needs, and their own rightful ability to make decisions? This is especially pertinent considering the cost of tuition, etc. for those who do not wish to be debt slaves. Is the point of this to line up the subject-people to be objects of debt? This can not be ignored in the country with a trillion dollars in education debt where practically every other country charges a registration fee, not tuition. The USA is the only country with the three-pronged fork for tuition cost.
indigo
February 6th, 2013
7:21 pm
Many high school diplomas today are not worth the paper the’re printed on.
So, let’s keep the SAT requirements. Otherwise, you’ll have “graduates” getting scholarships who, like so many of the HS football signees today, can’t even speak a grammatically correct sentence.
KIM
February 6th, 2013
7:21 pm
Difficult to calculate this. The top 3% in one school does not compare to the top 3% in another. Also, one program of study is not equal to another. No way to do this.
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
7:22 pm
The state should NOT be in the gaming business. If people want gaming, then bring in / license private business. The state should NOT be in any business that belongs in the business sector / caste. No state citizen should by affiliation of their citizenship automatically be party to a gaming business.
DB
February 6th, 2013
7:32 pm
I think the fact that Georgia SAT scores are consistently scraping the bottom — the average SAT score in Georgia in 2012 was a miserable 1452 — what was that, 48th in the country — is more of an indictment on Georgia education in total than it is of rural vs. suburban. Yeah, yeah, I know, in some states, only competitive college bound students take the test, blah, blah, blah. The fact remains — people seldom take the SAT unless they had some idea that they might want to go to college — it’s a lot of money to shell out for a test that usually demands at least some preparation in terms of review, etc. I think the help with room and board would help students look seriously at flagship colleges instead of local, less selective schools — many students have the choice made for them to stay at home and go to the local state school because of the expenses involved with room and board going away to school. A shared dorm room at UGA is around $6,000 per year — add food to that. So, do you take your HOPE and stay at home and commute to Augusta? Or do you splurge and spend the extra $6-9K a year to live in a dorm?
TheGoldenRam
February 6th, 2013
8:20 pm
@Maureen,
That’s an interesting comment. I’m going to have to read that book. Those findings directly parallel what we see at Florida A & M University here in Tallahassee. That school is a poster child for institutional incompetence at the university level. They were also just put on probation by SACS. Ironically, many observers of that action feel the same as those watching it play out in Dekalb. The accreditation boogey-man is brought in to address all kinds of institutional failings, with the glaring exception of academic achievement.
FAMU has a 4-year graduation rate of 12%! They were called out at a Board of Regents meeting last summer for “pretty much just admitting anyone into the school”. Over 50% of incoming students are ‘profile’ admissions. That means they waived the already low admission criteria for these students. The ‘profile’ admission average for other Florida universities? Less than 0.5%. FAMU students that do graduate, leave with more student debt than students attending any other state university.
It’s downright criminal. This is dark side of “do-gooder” policy making. I’ve tutored many of these kids over the years. Quite a few of them are from your neck of the woods. And many of them are NOT prepared for college. Not even remedial college courses. They struggle and they languish and they drop out. No degree, yet they are now tens of thousands of dollars in debt.
The ‘everyone should go to college” theme so popular in today’s school systems is so misguided. Tinkering with academic standards & eligibility requirements to further facilitate that unreasonable goal is going to cause more harm.
Btw, a 1200 math/reading score doesn’t seem to be an unreasonably high bar for a full-ride scholarship. A score of 1200 equated to an 80th percentile ranking in 2012. Add another 600 points for the writing portion of the test and you’re still at the low end of admission criteria for good state colleges.
Jerry Eads
February 6th, 2013
8:29 pm
The statistician likes this. Qualifying the top 3% from any high school at least wouuld enable kids from the inner city and rural schools a shot at what Zell wanted in the first place, which was to help poor as well as rich kids prepare for something else besides farm and mill labor. We KNOW that SAT scores predict little more than how much mommy and daddy make.
There are those who are beholden to having the low-income folks who are suckered into buying lottery tickets pay for rich kids’ tuition so mommy and daddy can also buy the kid’s European car toy. Seems to me it’d be nice to let the less well-off help their own kids too.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
8:32 pm
it’ll never happen, but I still favor making the first two years at a two year school mandatory for all HOPE recipients. keeps costs down and lets us weed out who belongs and who doesn’t more cheaply.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
8:38 pm
@ Jerry
bitter much? wow. class warfare on display.
no one is forced to play the lottery. nobody. the lottery in many ways is a stupidity tax. anybody plunking more than the occasional dollar into it deserves to lose their money.
if the “less well off” are really interested in helping their own kids, save your stinkin’ money, make sure your kids study, and teach them the value of hard work in class and out.
oh yeah. don’t have more kids than you can afford.
all that the “less well off” can do without spending a dime which might go anywhere other than their pockets.
bootney farnsworth
February 6th, 2013
8:43 pm
@ jerry
one of my kids will need a car soon. can you tell me where the poor slobs are who are dumping out hundreds at a time in the lottery? I’m just gonna go and have them give me their money directly.
cut out the middle man
Ashley
February 6th, 2013
9:24 pm
It’s called scholarship, of course it should be based on academics and achievement. 3.0 is barely a “B”, raising that to a 3.5 gpa makes more sense with all the grade inflation that occurs. Of course rigorous courses and good SAT/ACT scores should be required, that way remedial subjects in college shouldn’t be needed. We are suppose to be sending the best and brightest to our universities and not the barely literate or mediocre students who probably won’t graduated in 4 years, lets make sure we send the students who apply themselves and not the ones who just want to coast along. It should be about the challenge and not the ease.
Mahopinion
February 6th, 2013
9:33 pm
Is a shame hat the rigor of the curriculum isn’t taken into account. Someone with 3.0 in AP classes is more likely to graduate college tan someone with 4.0 in underwater basket weaving.
Mahopinion
February 6th, 2013
9:33 pm
Oops -that, not hat.
Gail
February 6th, 2013
9:34 pm
Could it also be that 26,000 was the number of students who had the 3.7 GPA & SAT or
ACT score when graduating high school so they were technically eligible for the Zell Miller Scholarship until college grades were checked? Maybe many did not have the 3.3 college GPA. The classes of 2012, 2013 and 2014 had already started college when the HOPE changes were made.
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
9:43 pm
The people I know who exploit the “hope” monies are from intellectually sophisticated middle class homes. That’s what grinds me about it, it is supplementing the prosperity of those who already have a leg up. It also removes these and their families from giving any concern to those who pay tuition and actual traditional costs. Imma talking real life. The “hope” recipients I know are incredibly arrogant toward the greater good and reality for those who struggle. I am not generalising about all “hope” recipients, however this is what I have personally seen.
Georgia is sooOOOOooo full of this, different public schools with different funding schemes based on local property values, and then the upper tier families that can exploit “hope” monies. I am so totally against this type of carrot and stick funding. Can not anyone see that this type funding discriminates against those from the lower tier who seek to better themselves through college education?
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
9:55 pm
Not to mention the situation this creates for teachers when politically connected “concerned parents” have a shark-plan for their baby(ies) to save thousands in family money and are determined that their grades are crispy and starched. This is wholly in opposition to a serious teacher being able to teach their children with political interference and spending their valuable teacher-time to be called out to make sure the politically connected are taken care of, and in a manner that might as well push the other students to the side, since power is removed from the teacher and these kids of the power elite are made to suffer the force of their parent’s interference and suffer the underlying embarrassment and humiliation from their parents being well into teacher’s business on their behalf. Ever had a kid completely break down and cry because of power parent is in their business? I have. These kids have no island and get run into the ground with formula activities. And it is really all in the service of greed and formula. And HOPE sets up this paradigm. It is unwholesome from three different sides: 1) gambling money that is fundamentally predatory. 2) serves the already sophisticated successful families. 3) makes for an unfair financial playing field for regular autonomous students 4) creates a situation where the capable do not have to pay their way and are therefore removed from the share/care/relate that is civilisation / relevance / society, the very values of what a college education should represent. 5) creates a stimulus / reward system for certain parents to interfere with teachers and overtly use interference and political power to the exclusion of other students. 6) Co-opts citizens to be party to a chance / gaming / gambling enterprise without their consent.
Make that six ways to hell. I don’t know who thought it up or why anyone thinks it is legitimate or clever. And let’s not forget the polluting influence upon the mission of government.
Private Citizen
February 6th, 2013
9:59 pm
bootney, does the term “ill gotten gain” mean anything to you? what about “two wrongs don’t make a right?”
Moderation
February 6th, 2013
10:18 pm
Maybe the HOPE Scholarship should devote a portion of the lottery money
to encourage more people to save funds in a 529 account.by allocating a
small portion to the account much like UPromise. The state should subsidize
the cost of college attendance, but ultimately it is the responsibility of the
parent(s)/guardian(s) and the student. A student who has excellent grades
and SAT scores should be able to get financial help to achieve his, or her
academic and career goals, but that student should also be understanding
of other students seeking funding for their educational goals. Neither student
is entitled to receive funding based on merit,or need-It is given out of the
benevolence of policy makers,tax payers, and voters. Attitudes toward
the Hope Scholarship are important, and more people need to show gratitude
that the scholarship exist instead of expressing an entitlement for something
that they think they are owed .
Roxy
February 6th, 2013
10:32 pm
I’d like to see the research as to how many “rural/urban” HOPE recipients keep HOPE and graduate from college as opposed to how many from those 45 high schools concentrated the metro Atlanta area graduate from college regardless of keeping the scholarship or not. It’s not supposed to be a gift–it’s a privilege and if it matters to your family–they will help you keep going no matter where you live in the state. It’s not up to anyone to pave the way just because Jason Carter and the Democrats thinks you are too poor to be responsible for your own future. Live your life and raise your kids as if you CARE.
South Georgia Retiree
February 6th, 2013
11:17 pm
I’m also taken aback by the number of graduates who qualified but didn’t take the Zell Miller Scholarship. Hard to believe almost 16,000 of 26,000 qualifiers didn’t take a full tuition scholarship offer last year. It would be interesting to see some real details on why these scholars didn’t take the money; how many went to college out-of-state and where, how many didn’t go to college, how many went to college in Georgia anyway, and which school systems these students graduated from. These numbers make me scratch my head. I assure you that if you offered 26,000 full tuition scholarships to South Georgia graduates, almost none would be turned down.
Teacher Reader
February 6th, 2013
11:27 pm
The class warfare here is astonishing. First a parent’s salary should not be taken into account for a child to be able to pay for college. If a child is an adult at 18, than they should be treated like one, and have to make it on their own through college. Not sure who started the idea that parents should pay for college for some, and other parents get off, but it’s a bunch of BS.
Second, if a student works hard and meets the Zell Miller requirements than they should keep the scholarship.
Third, if rural students want to take classes that aren’t offered in their school, they could dual enroll in college to take them.
Fourth, if rural kids (or any kid for that matter) want to do better on SATs, turn the tv off, stop playing video games and pick up more books to read, increase your vocabulary and math skills.
I am tired of class warfare. I know single moms who refuse to take job promotions, so that their kids qualify for more aide, bitch and moan about having to pay $150 a month on a $20,000 a year private school. Being married and of middle class income, we are saving money for our child’s education and working hard to ensure that he won’t be saddled with too many student loans because his dad and I have worked hard to not end up in the small dead end town in which we grew up. My son should not be penalized for our hard work, waiting until we could afford to have a child, and success. Life is about choices, and because one makes good choices and does well, their children shouldn’t be penalized. The same goes for a parent who makes poor choices, we shouldn’t look down on them.
I am tired of people in America having class wars. Growing up with parents who barely were making it, I was taught that if I worked hard and put my mind to it, I could be successful. Now that I have accomplished more than my parents, it seems that I am too successful and everyone wants apart of my hard work, choices, and determination.
Another comment
February 6th, 2013
11:50 pm
The problem with basing it on the percent of students in the graduating class is that this number can change almost daily. My daughter’s class started out at over 880 students. Now it is at 565 according to a reference letter a Math teacher wrote her for UGA. She is currently 65th. She received a 26 on the ACT which is the eligiblity score for the Zell Miller Hope. Her GPA is 3.92, when calculated for Hope comes out at something like 3.67 -3.9/ She took several IB and AP classed that she scored A’s in. In the Hope Calculation, you loose your extra point if you get a real A, you only gain back a .5 if you get a B. She has been doing Dual Enrollment, since that is really the way to go at GPC this year. She should have 15 credit hours completed a semester. I will have only paid $500 out of pocket and another $500 for books a real deal. Her classes count for both High School and College Credit. Now here is another one of the big inequities, Cobb county gives zero bonus points unless the college course exceeds any offerings they have. So basicaly you get no bonus points for Dual Enrollment in Cobb, but in Cherokee you get bonus points for every dual enrollment class.
Their has to be grading consistancy through out the state. Their is not. It is far from it. Then you talk about private school, where you pay for A’s.
A reader
February 7th, 2013
12:56 am
Maybe I am missing something, but my read of this article states that democrats want to change the eligibility of the Zell Miller Scholarship but the republicans do not. In fact it seems that the democrats who want to change this are from urban areas (ATL, Decatur, Macon, Savannah). I do believe that most of rural GA is represented by republicans.
So what gives?? This is touted as being good for rural students but is championed by urban representatives and opposed by rural representatives. Seriously, am I missing something??
And the fact that less than 1/2 of students eligible for receiving the the Zell Miller scholarship actually take it does not surprise me. If your child was offered a scholarship to “any school in GA” and an elite ivy league school, which would you choose? Those kids with the high SAT scores will get offers of academic scholarships from MANY schools. Why settle for UGA (known for being the number 1 party school!) when you could have an elite school?
thinkabout
February 7th, 2013
1:42 am
I hear all of the criticisms and objections, and recognize there is some validity to some.
But take a moment to consider this: My grandfather, who was the son of a poor North Georgia farmer, was able to go to school through the generosity and vision of Martha Berry. He worked hard for his education (they had to work the fields, help plan and build dams, work in the printing office, etc.). He went on to a successful middle class life, and put two sons through college (one at UGA, a pharmacist, and the other at Tech, an engineer – my dad).
My dad was able to provide me with a solid relatively privileged upbringing, and I ended up with a master’s degree and a pretty darn good standard of living.
But would I be where I am now without the opportunity first provided to my grandfather by Martha Berry for bright, but less fortunate rural students? Almost certainly not.
Martha Berry was a friend of Henry Ford, who supported her school, and my grandfather had occasion once to see him on campus. What she and Mr. Ford believed in is what seems to have escaped many of us today: it can only benefit society going forward that dedicated students, regardless of their heritage and therefore access to “top notch” early schooling, be offered the opportunity for higher education if they’re willing to work for it.
Private Citizen
February 7th, 2013
5:26 am
In a functional society, college is not a privilege. “Privilege” concepts are territorial, actually an example of low thinking, territoriality like an animal, whereas abstract reasoning is an example of higher order thinking suitable to a human.
Private Citizen
February 7th, 2013
5:29 am
Separate question: For purpose of financial independence, at what age are adults considered to be financially autonomous for reasons of college financial aid?
I had a friend who could not go to college because he married early and the financial aid process required tax returns from both his parents and from his wife’s parents, who did not like him.
Lee
February 7th, 2013
6:06 am
Oh good grief, enough already. Just make the HOPE Scholarship a Reimbursement Program where the student pays for his class, gets his grade, and THEN gets a reimbursement if he passes the class. Eliminate all the GPA/SAT/ACT gyrations that the student now has to maneuver through.
If you pass the class, you get reimbursed.
If you don’t pass the class, you paid out of your own pocket.
Doesn’t matter if you are rich, poor, black, white, scholar, or a dullard.
———————————–
“Jackson’s second resolution urges the Georgia Student Finance Commission, a state agency the oversees lottery disbursement funds for HOPE, make available pertinent demographic data needed to initiate comprehensive reform of the program to ensure its future sustainability.”
You need a law for that? Good grief. What a waste of time. Ever hear of open records?
What Jackson wants is a nice, tidy data packet that proves whites are getting the scholarship more than blacks. His next proposal will be some convoluted requirement that directs more HOPE money to unqualified “poor and minority” students who simply don’t possess the grades for college.
….and we’ll be right back to where we were a few years ago with HOPE going broke…
colleen
February 7th, 2013
6:16 am
I live in East Cobb because I drive an 18 year old car, don’t have cable and give up exvery luxury possible to make sure my son is in a good school district. As a single mom, I work at an office job 12+ hours a day to make sure I can keep learning and improving and just to keep a job. I do a great deal of it in off hours on my laptop after my son is asleep, so I can spend his waking hours with him. I sacrifice to be in this area because my son’s education is more important than good grades at a worse school. I am considered a “privilidged East Cobber”.
So how is it my son who studies until midnight many nights, studies on weekends, takes ap classes for a 4.27 GPA, and is 16th in his class at a high ranking school shouldn’t receive the Zell Miller? AAfter all, if you are saying it is an unfair advantage because of his residency, then he shouldn’t. He wants to go to GA Tech, so he strives to make it happen. His friends are in similar situations. It is expected at his school. He sudies for ap exams and studies for the SAT. Why is this considered giving the suburbs the advantage?
He has a cousin who simply isn’t into his studies, takes easier classes and is at a school that accepts work my son’s school would give a D for submitting. His schol did not challenge him. He had a 3.8 GPA. He had to take some remedial courses in college. How is it the same?
Maybe we need to question the curriculum of the schools if the students can’t perform as their counterparts. How about toughening the curriculum everywhere so the education received is comparable and then try to make it an apples to apples. Until then, leave the scholarship alone. They earned it.
MiltonMan
February 7th, 2013
6:25 am
“One resolution calls for expansion of the Zell Miller scholarship, a product of the 2011 attempt to reform HOPE, by extending full tuition eligibility to the top three percent of all graduating public school students in Georgia. Jackson said this measure would not only ensure the award reaches more students, but would also make the program more cost-effective.”
Good God leave it to the clueles Democrats in this state. The top 3% of Milton High School, Cambridge, Centennial, Roswell >>>>> the 3% of most, if not all, schools in this state. This is why I will never vote for a Georgia Democrat ever again.
“While this number is shocking, the number most shocking is the disparity between north Fulton suburbs and rural student recipients.”
You are an idiot Lester Jackson. The schools in North Fulton are top notch & the parents in this area expect nothing less. Why don’t you crawl out of land fill & come visit these school to actually see how they operate. Continue to try to penalize the students within North Fulton schools democrats & we will continue to make sure that your party becomes even more irrelevant in this state.
catlady
February 7th, 2013
7:00 am
Private Citizen, your friend was misinformed. If you are married, you are considered an adult no matter your age, and parental info is not required. Same if you have a child you support; whether you are an adult or not, it is your data that is considered.
Private Citizen
February 7th, 2013
7:18 am
catlady, It was a while back. I have no doubt his report was accurate. This was in Wisconsin. They’re pretty snooty up there in their UW system.
Let me ask a similar question. Today, is there a standard age that an unmarried student is considered financially autonomous from their parents for purposes of college financial aid?
Concerned Parent
February 7th, 2013
7:18 am
Changing the standards is a crock. Just because a student doesn’t come from the suburbs doesn’t mean they can’t meet the standards for Zell Miller. My child is graduating from a small town, rural school with a 4.2 GPA in mostly AP classes and the required GPA. SO, being from a non suburban school doesn’t hurt students if they are motivated to succeed. Changing the standard will just encourage more grade inflation, which is what got HOPE in trouble to begin with. It will also send the message that mediocrity is ok because the government is going to take care of you anyway.
The comment that middle class students don’t need financial assistance is just about the dumbest statement a I have ever heard a liberal make.
Even with the Zell Miller, the out of pocket costs for Tech and Georgia is 12-15K per year. The universities charge 1k-2k per semester in fees each semester to get extra money to make up money cut from the legislature. One is called a”university fee.”
I am a single parent (not by choice) making $45k per year. Technically, I am in the middle class, but there is no way I could afford to send my child to either of these schools without HOPE. If the student wants to get an engineering degree or become a veterinarian colleges are not an option.
I do agree with the earlier comment that we should look at full ride scholarships to keep the best students in Georgia. if not at least cover the outrageous fees that schools are using to get their money one way or the other. If top quality ouf of state school offers to cover tuition AND student fees, the student is going to go where the cost is cheaper.
Concerned Parent
February 7th, 2013
7:19 am
Oops…
last sentence is supposed to say community colleges are not an option.
RnW1015
February 7th, 2013
7:20 am
IMHO, I think education was so much better before the Federal Gov’t. took over. We’ve gone nowhere but downhill since Jimmy Carter instituted the Department of Education.
I Teach Writing
February 7th, 2013
9:01 am
@South GA Retiree — While some kids would have to turn down the Zell Miller because of residency changes or other administrative issues, I suspect that the bulk of those who decline it do so because it’s not the only full ride they’ve been offered. All in-state students who receive UGA’s Foundation Fellowship or Ramsey Scholarship, for instance, would be eligible for the Miller but would decline, as Foundation & Ramsey both provide benefits beyond tuition.
Many probably take full-ride offers out of state. A few may even turn down a full ride to an in-state school in favor of an almost full ride at a better-fit school out of state.
Pardon My Blog
February 7th, 2013
9:36 am
@Beck – In the last twenty-five years, irregardless has become a common entry in dictionaries and usage reference books, although commonly marked as substandard or dialect. It appears in a wide range of dictionaries including Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged (1961, repr. 2002),[4] The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology (1988), The American Heritage Dictionary (Second College Edition, 1991),[5] Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary (2001), and Webster’s New World College Dictionary (Fourth Edition, 2004).[6] The definition in most dictionaries is simply listed as regardless (along with the note nonstandard, or similar). Merriam–Webster even states “Use regardless instead.”
Name calling? The Dems, especially this bunch, are far left and want nothing more than to spread the wealth, whether deserved or not. My son applied himself in school (Public School at that) and now he can take advantage of one of the few avenues available to him due to the fact he is a white male!
Panthergirl
February 7th, 2013
10:33 am
The level of vitriol in this blog is amazing. I don’t believe you can equate SAT scores to effort and make the statement that kids with scores of 1200 have worked harder and “earned” the scholarship. My 11th son, for example, is lazy as sin; however, he is ranked in the top 3% of his Forsyth county high school. He is taking 5 APs this year and currently has A’s in 4 of them and an 87 in the 5th. I expect him to score 1350 + on the SAT. He doesn’t work hard. Generally, he spends an hour or less per night on his school work. He’s blessed with a high level of natural intelligence. How does that mean that he has “earned the scholarship.” I guarantee you that there are students in rural Georgia that work much harder than my son and won’t come close to his SAT score. My son talks about his friend who has already scored a 1400 + (m and cr) on the SAT. This friend is taking 7 APs and has A’s in all 7 of them. It amuses my son because he says that this kid is one of the laziest people he knows. The kid is just brilliant. Again, how does he, who was just born brilliant, deserve a scholarship over other kids who may have worked twice as hard in school?
Yes, I do believe that in some poor rural high schools, with no honors or AP classes, it is almost impossible for students to attain a 1200 + SAT score. I know students at our high school with high GPAs and multiple AP classes who can’t pull out 1200s without paid tutoring from their parents. Heck, I know a girl with a strong GPA and multiple AP classes who received 24 hours of one on one tutoring with a tutor from the Princeton Review and couldn’t pull out an 1100 on the SAT. Are we going to punish the kids from rural Georgia because their parents don’t have $4,000 to pay for SAT tutoring?
The SAT, by the way, only measures how well you do at taking the SAT. It is not a measurement of either intelligence or academic achievement.
AlreadySheared
February 7th, 2013
11:13 am
@Panthergirl:
“11th” son – 11? 11 Sons? Holy cats that’s a lot of sons!
“Brilliant” “Deserve Scholarship”? Yes, pretty much that’s originally what ’scholar’ships were for – brilliant scholars. If your son and his lazy friend are coasting at a high level of achievement now, then absolutely scholarships to lift them to a level where they will be challenged are in order.
Their peers who work harder and score lower? Depending on what they study, it may be that said peers will ‘hit a wall’ when they encounter a certian degree of academic rigor that sheer drive and effort cannot overcome.
Scott
February 7th, 2013
2:44 pm
Although I think the 3% rule would push some rural students to try harder in school, I still think the SAT is the best predictor of college preparedness we have available. I don’t trust high school GPA on its own. It is too easy to take the “easy” teachers and classes that senior year. But you can’t fool the SAT, everyone takes an equivalent test. And don’t we need to encourage GA students to do better on the SAT to climb out of the bottom slot nationwide? Also seeing studies that the SAT is correlated at 67% as a predictor of college success when comparing apples to apples. See http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/blogs/nurture-shock/2009/09/18/in-defense-of-the-sat.html.
Gov. Deal responds to concerns about HOPE Grant and lowers GPA requirement to 2.0 | Get Schooled
February 7th, 2013
3:22 pm
[...] the question is: Will Deal respond to complaints about how few rural students are getting the Zell Miller Scholarship, which is the highest paying tier of HOPE and limited to high school graduates with high GPAs and [...]
Jerry Eads
February 7th, 2013
5:38 pm
Hey Bootney – indeed it is. BUT: so you wanna kick their kids in the groin because their parents buy lottery tickets? Shame on you.
Reality is we can’t afford to leave the rural and inner city kids with no choice but non-existent farm and textile jobs because we like to reward rich kids on the basis of what amounts to no more than tests of how much mommy and daddy make. Highest correlation between SAT and for that matter state minimum competency test pass rates is income. If you want to get a bit more sophisticated and play with multiple regression statistician’s toys, income eats up 30-70% of the variance, depending on what income and test data. To make it REAL clear: tests tell you more about what opportunities a kid had, rather than how good a scholar they are.
beteachin
February 7th, 2013
8:41 pm
Note to parents: Students CANNOT earn a 4.2 or whatever you think they have earned on a 4.0 scale. I am not a mathematics educator, but even I know that one cannot earn more than 4 points on a 4.0 scale. Your child has been bribed to take AP courses and given “extra credit” to reward the effort. Those extra points are not calculated for HOPE or for their college applications because they don’t really exist. I support the AP program and think that more children should accept the challenge of taking these classes! Schools add points solely to choose the the val and sal in the class. I’m not saying this is a bad thing; I’m just saying that your child doesn’t really have a 4.2. The sad part is, most of the children caught up in this number game don’t understand it either.
Home-tutoring parent
February 7th, 2013
9:18 pm
)This isn’t hard to figure out. Kids get an A IN AP, that generates a 5. To be “rigorous” it requires a 5 AP score.
On Sell Millerr’s 1200 SAT (1800 new test), it just means your kid is ready to take on minimal-real college-level coursework. Which is better than not-read,needing our universities ti teach high-school-remediation courses..
noBS
February 8th, 2013
12:02 am
2/7/13 11:45 PM — I just saw on the late news that Gov. Deal plans to LOWER the standards for the HOPE to just a 2.0 GPA (from the current 3.0).
The HOPE acronym supposedly stands for “Helping Outstanding Pupils Educationally” — please note the word “Outstanding”! A 2.0 GPA is a low “C” average — certainly not “Outstanding”, by any stretch.
Years ago, my daughter was able to take advantage of the HOPE, and kept her GPA over 3.0 for several years — until one bad semester dropped it below that level — so she lost the scholarship. Even though she carried a 3.0 or better every semester thereafter, she never quite re-qualified, so she had to take student loans in order to complete her last couple years.
I’m certain that she — and many others like her who lost the scholarship because of a single bad quarter or semester — would strenuously object to lowering the standards after the fact. I feel certain that the state does not plan to retroactively reimburse any students who failed to qualify or who lost the scholarship, because they barely missed (or dropped below) the old 3.0 standard, but whose GPAs were always well above the proposed new standard. Lowering the standard at this point is blatently unfair to all those students who, because of the old, higher standard, were denied the HOPE in the past. Rather than lowering the standard, if a surplus of funds currently exists, it should be set aside as a hedge against a future shortfall.
Prof
February 8th, 2013
11:19 am
There seems to be some misunderstanding about Gov. Deal’s proposal: he suggests a 2.0 grade average for admission into USG’s technical schools ONLY for HOPE scholarships.