Georgia earns a C for how well it selects and prepares its teaching force. Colleges are not selective enough.

downeyart0321(3) (Medium)The National Council on Teacher Quality gave Georgia an overall grade of C in its teacher preparation policies, docking the state points for the lack of selectivity in admissions to teacher prep programs and for ridding classrooms of under performing teachers.

Still, Georgia outperforms the rest of the nation. The average grade nationwide was a D plus.

Here is a link to the full 2012 Georgia report.

The report recommends:

Georgia should require programs to use an assessment that demonstrates that candidates are academically competitive with all peers, regardless of their intended profession. Requiring a common test normed to the general college population would allow for the selection of applicants in the top half of their class while also facilitating program comparison.

Requiring only a 2.5 GPA sets a very low bar for the academic performance of the state’s prospective teachers. Georgia should consider using a higher GPA requirement for program admission in combination with a test of academic proficiency. A sliding scale of GPA and test scores would allow flexibility for candidates in demonstrating academic ability.

In addition to ensuring that programs require a measure of academic performance for admission, Georgia might also want to consider requiring content testing prior to program admission as opposed to at the point of program completion. Program candidates are likely to have completed coursework that covers related test content in the prerequisite classes required for program admission. Thus, it would be sensible to have candidates take content tests while this knowledge is fresh rather than wait two years to fulfill the requirement, and candidates lacking sufficient expertise would be able to remedy deficits prior to entering formal preparation

In addressing the readiness of states to teach the new Common Core Standards, the report warns: Unfortunately, Georgia’s policies fail to ensure that elementary teacher candidates will have the subject-area knowledge necessary to teach to these standards.

The council also noted that 86 percent of undergraduate teacher preparation programs in Georgia are not selective enough because they don’t require that candidates come from the top half of the college-going population.

Here is the official statement from the council:

The National Council on Teacher Quality today released its sixth annual State Teacher Policy Yearbook, with a special focus on the state laws, rules and regulations that shape teacher preparation. This 2012 edition of the Yearbook provides Georgia with a tailored analysis, Improving Teacher Preparation in Georgia, which identifies the teacher preparation policy areas most in need of critical attention, as well as “low-hanging fruit,” policies that can be addressed by Georgia in relatively short order.

The state received a grade of “C” for its teacher preparation policies in 2012, with no improvement since 2011. The average grade across all 50 states and the District of Columbia is a “D+”.

NCTQ President Kate Walsh said, “With so much attention on the issue of teacher effectiveness, the relative lack of attention to how candidates for teaching are prepared for the job in the first place is puzzling. The Yearbook provides a road map for policymakers on how to get teacher effectiveness right from the start – by setting higher expectations for what teachers need to know and are able to do before they are licensed to become teachers. Our teachers deserve the very best preparation so that they can step into the classroom and help our students prepare to be the most successful in the world.”

Some of Georgia’s teacher preparation policies most in need of critical attention include:

•Raising admission requirements to ensure that teacher preparation programs admit candidates with strong academic records.

•Ensuring that elementary teachers know their subject matter and have the knowledge and skills to be effective reading teachers so that new teachers are ready to teach to the Common Core State Standards.

•Closing loopholes that allow some secondary science teachers to teach subjects in which they may lack sufficient content knowledge.

•Eliminating generic K-12 special education licenses that lower the bar for special education teachers and make it virtually impossible for the state to ensure that these teachers know their subject matter and are prepared to teach grade-level content.

•Requiring that teacher candidates receive a high-quality summative student teaching experience and are assigned to cooperating teachers who have demonstrated evidence of effectiveness as measured by student learning.

•Establishing minimum performance standards for teacher preparation programs. Although Georgia is one of only eight states that requires the use of student achievement data, minimum standards are necessary to hold programs accountable for the performance of their graduates.

The report also identifies ways that the Georgia Teacher Academy for Preparation and Pedagogy, the state’s alternate route into the teaching profession, could be improved.

This year’s Yearbook comes in advance of NCTQ’s forthcoming (Spring 2013) Teacher Prep Review of the higher education-based teacher preparation programs in the nation. A key area of focus in both reports is admission standards, and the 2012 Yearbook includes a sneak peek of data from the Review, which finds that 86 percent of undergraduate teacher preparation programs in Georgia are insufficiently selective, failing to ensure that candidates come from the top half of the college-going population.

Walsh continued: “The 2012 Yearbook will serve as an important companion to NCTQ’s forthcoming Teacher Prep Review, which will identify programs that are doing the best job of preparing tomorrow’s educators, those that need to improve and those that need restructuring. The Yearbook’s recommendations can help state policymakers build a strong policy framework for effective teacher preparation so that our teachers get what they deserve: training that provides them with the tools they need to lead a classroom the day they graduate.”

–from Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog

114 comments Add your comment

Jake

January 23rd, 2013
10:23 am

This is the core of the problem: colleges are in the business of making money, the economy is bad and people use the bachelors degree to get into a fast track certification program at both public and private colleges and universities. If one meets the minimal requirement to get into the college, certification is assured no matter how poor of a student teacher one is. It is a crime truely, colleges are putting out students that are poor teachers. I have supervised numerous interns, many whom I was tough on and didn’t reccomend to pass. They passed. It should be like med school and on a curve. The problem isn’t solely with the colleges. The standards in college are weak. Students feel since they paid they deserve A’s, then if they don’t professors get poor evaluations, then professors start dispensing inflated grades to get better student evaluations. This doesn’t happen in Europe. This is a direct result of turing colleges and universities into capital corporations that are at the demands of the “customers” they serve. In the public schools this is the new catch phrase, “customer service.” It’s dangerous. These are students not customers at a resturant. If we cow tow to student evaluations in fear of losing jobs then society fails all. The demands on students in higher ed are equal to that of my mothers 1950’s HS education. It is so dumbed down today.

10:10 am

January 23rd, 2013
10:57 am

Besides providing parents with more schooling choices for kids, perhaps legislators need to concentrate on making turnover of ineffective/chronically dissatisfied K-12 staffers more rapid … so that the ten or more qualified applicants for each open teaching position have an opportunity to show what they can do.

RCB

January 23rd, 2013
11:05 am

A 2.5 GPA at some of Georgia’s colleges would be a 1.0 at others. There needs to be a knowledge-based exam for all teachers BEFORE they graduate. Same exam at all colleges.

Beverly Fraud

January 23rd, 2013
11:08 am

Unfortunately, Georgia’s policies fail to ensure that elementary teacher candidates will have the subject-area knowledge necessary to teach to these standards.

I’m sure Invisible Serf would fine that quite ironic.

I agree teaching preparation is inadequate. Where are the copious amounts of hallucinogenic drugs along with daily showings of the remake of Apocalypse Now starring Big Bird in the role of Colonel Kurtz?

That might prepare you for the horror of what’s about to ensue.

The horror…

sneak peak into education

January 23rd, 2013
11:09 am

I agree totally. I went to teaching college here as a non-traditional student and was shocked at the lack of knowledge that my classmates had about the world we live in. I also emigrated from across the pond and knew more about Georgia/USA history, politics, geography, etc… than many of born and raised Georgian classmates. I think we should look at the Finish model for choosing and training future teachers; it’s outstanding and produces great results. Of course, with any program that looks to attract the top achievers, teaching is going to have to pay more and provide better working conditions. I don’t believe that providing an entrance exam or bar-type exam at the end will do anything to raise the standards. I think that if you can pass the coursework and the GACE/Praxis that should be sufficient. Adding another bar exam will only create another layer of bureaucracy that can charge exorbitant fees for study courses, test prep, and exams.

the good doctor

January 23rd, 2013
11:16 am

What grade does the NCTQ gives our State legislatures for the way they compensate teachers? If I am highly qualified, nationally board certified, and my students grades reflect that they are learning (without any cheating or unlawful aiding of course), how will I be compensated?

Hal Bierce

January 23rd, 2013
11:24 am

The problem is pay. Those higher performing students will not enter these programs if the promise at the end is being overworked and under paid.

Mountain Man

January 23rd, 2013
11:29 am

I think that APS should check ALL of their teachers and only extend contracts to those who maintained a 3.5 GPA average in a nationally ranked college. I don’t know who will teach the children then, though.

Just A Teacher

January 23rd, 2013
11:31 am

@ the good doctor “How will I be compensated?”

Inadequately.

Prof

January 23rd, 2013
11:43 am

I think you will need to change more than the entrance standards for teacher preparation programs in colleges; you also will need to change the internal standards of the courses within the Education colleges. To judge anecdotally from the Education students I’ve had over the years in my non-Education graduate courses, they seem to be used to getting A’s for minimal effort and loudly unhappy when they don’t.

Grob Hahn

January 23rd, 2013
11:47 am

So we send our children into schools hoping to get a 4.0 education from a 2.5 teacher? What could go wrong? Why don’t we commission a “study” on this clearly strange and unexplained phenomenon. It can go right beside the one on why Beverly Hall hasn’t been indicted and retains her ill-gotten “awards”.
Grobbbbbbbbbbb

Jake

January 23rd, 2013
11:49 am

Oh Mountain Man….really but what is a nationally ranked university????

Centrist

January 23rd, 2013
11:52 am

The highlights of the report seem hit the nail on the head. I guess the thinking is being graded with a C is good enough, especially since it is better than most states.

Although Ms. Downey posts this above as part of the report, it isn’t mentioned again: “ridding classrooms of under performing teachers”. Big problem, but tenure and cronyism usually trumps a solution of either demanding improvement or replacement.

Centrist

January 23rd, 2013
11:57 am

The highlights of the report seem hit the nail on the head. The thinking must be that being graded with a C is good enough, especially since it is better than most states.

Although Ms. Downey posts this above as part of the report, it isn’t mentioned again: “ridding classrooms of under performing teachers”. Big problem, but tenure and cronyism usually trumps a solution of either demanding improvement or replacement.

Centrist

January 23rd, 2013
12:00 pm

Sorry for the double post – got an “Internal server error” message on the first one.

Teacher Experienced

January 23rd, 2013
12:10 pm

Same thing as always. Teachers are sorry. Funny how in over 19 years I have known well over 1000 teachers in two of the worst schools around and have only seen at the most 15 teachers that were not great and spent tons of their own personal hours without pay to make sure the students had the best education possible. Every industry has its poor performers. How many poor workers do you think you can find at Ford Motor, UPS, Post Office, etc. etc. I would bet the teachers have the lowest percentage of poor workers than any industry. By the way teachers are also some of the finest folk in the world. Lay Off while you still have a some good ones left.

Beverly Fraud

January 23rd, 2013
12:15 pm

Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.

I'll bet

January 23rd, 2013
12:26 pm

I’ll bet you that some of the loudest voices on here talking about teachers are some of the worse workers where they are. As stated in a previous post, there are lousy workers in all professions. I known some people who were straight A students who turned out to do horribly in a work environment. Heck I’ve met business majors that could barely write. Many of the posters on here probably weren’t academic standouts themselves, but always have something to say. If genius was required for every job, most of us wouldn’t be working.

indigo

January 23rd, 2013
12:36 pm

You can graduate from college with a C average and become a teacher.

Requiring this higher standard for teachers in Georgia, and elsewhere, would soon brings cries of “racism” from the black community.

I don’t think colleges have the same rate of social experimenting that our highschools have.

Maureen Downey

January 23rd, 2013
12:42 pm

@Beverly, The principal evaluation looks pretty comprehensive to me:
From my live blog out of the media seminar two weeks ago:

Now Andrews is talking about the companion evaluation system to measure leader effectiveness.

This is for building-level leadership. Principals will be rated on eight standards. They must meet all eight of those standards. They also have to develop two unique goals tied to their own school improvement plan. Every staff member, including cafeteria, custodians, completes a climate survey on the principal. Principal will choose which groups will rate assistant principal. Principal evaluations will look at student attendance. Also, look at how effective principals are in retaining effective teachers.

“We know that teachers leave leaders first. So, we want to see how effective principals are in retaining those effective teahcers.”

Also, state will look at student performance piece for principals. Looking at how the achievement gap between bottom 25 percent and rest of student is being closed.

So, now, we have both teacher and leader effectiveness measures.

“Race to the Top is not driving the work. The work is driving Race to the Top. These are initiatives we wanted to do. We didn’t have the money to do them. Race to the Top gave us the money.”

Maureen Downey

January 23rd, 2013
12:44 pm

@Beverly: State is looking at administrators: From my live blog from media seminar on segment presented by DOE official:

Now Andrews is talking about the companion evaluation system to measure leader effectiveness.

This is for building-level leadership. Principals will be rated on eight standards. They must meet all eight of those standards. They also have to develop two unique goals tied to their own school improvement plan. Every staff member, including cafeteria, custodians, completes a climate survey on the principal. Principal will choose which groups will rate assistant principal. Principal evaluations will look at student attendance. Also, look at how effective principals are in retaining effective teachers.

“We know that teachers leave leaders first. So, we want to see how effective principals are in retaining those effective teachers.”

Also, state will look at student performance piece for principals. Looking at how the achievement gap between bottom 25 percent and rest of students in schools is being closed.

So, now, we have both teacher and leader effectiveness measures.

“Race to the Top is not driving the work. The work is driving Race to the Top. These are initiatives we wanted to do. We didn’t have the money to do them. Race to the Top gave us the money.”

reality check

January 23rd, 2013
12:46 pm

You get what you pay for. Even worse, teacher work conditions have become terrible.

I can’t figure out why anybody would go into teaching. The pay is poor and the hours have gotten to be unbearable as school administrators – aka government bureaucrats – inundate teachers with crushing amounts of paperwork.

There are also people criticizing teacher performance at every turn, as evidenced by the report precipitating this article as only one example.

Why not be a RN? The pay is better and will get even more so because there is more demand than supply. Work conditions and advancement are better, it is a respected profession helping people with less bureaucracy, and the admission requirements and education required are roughly equivalent.

Prof

January 23rd, 2013
12:46 pm

@ Beverly Fraud, January 23rd, 12:15 pm: “Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.”

Oh, but we are having such a discussion. Those wishing to become administrators still are taking courses from the College of Education, simply those in a different department: Educational Policy Studies, which offers the necessary Ph.D.s in “Educational Leadership.”

Pluto

January 23rd, 2013
12:52 pm

So teachers=bad and overseers=good? One of the BIG problems I encounter is there are too many CHIEFS throwing chunks of jello against the wall trying to get it to stick. Then they come back again and agian.

Educator of Truth

January 23rd, 2013
12:56 pm

Let me guess, the evaluators of teacher prep programs think potential educators need to jump through even more hoops and for what reason? I have learned over my tenure that much of the policies and methodologies learned in those programs do nothing to change the forecast of student and parental accountability, and it’s far from a sunny day on those fronts. Most people who have an opinion about teachers or education haven’t volunteered one hour in any school or experienced this new generation of parents who constantly make excuses for their children or don’t address their behavioral / academic issues at all. So in my opinion, this grade is as meaningless as the grades we give out on a daily basis. The grade is not a direct indication of how to rectify skill deficiencies, its just a representation to satisfy a political protocol.

Mountain Man

January 23rd, 2013
12:59 pm

“Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.”

AMEN, Beverly Fraud!

Any ADMINISTRATOR who has more than 3 days average absenteeism in his/her school should be FIRED immediately. After all, we know that teachers and administrators have COMPLETE CONTROL over what the students and parents do!

Mountain Man

January 23rd, 2013
1:09 pm

“Oh, but we are having such a discussion. Those wishing to become administrators still are taking courses from the College of Education, simply those in a different department: Educational Policy Studies, which offers the necessary Ph.D.s in “Educational Leadership.””

And, Prof, does that guarantee that administrators handle discipline effectively? Absenteeism? Social promotion? Inordinate spending on SPED students?

LaKeisha Jackson

January 23rd, 2013
1:10 pm

Among the other problems cited, you can add the fact that education departments/programs are limited in their ability to be “selective” because other factors…especially diversity…weigh very heavily.

bootney farnsworth

January 23rd, 2013
1:18 pm

frankly, I’m amazed the score is as high as it is.

I see three major issues at play

-HOPE/grade inflation/social promotion. more and more kids in college who are not ready to be there.
-a profession eaten alive by rampant corruption. see APS, DCSS, Clayton, Albany, ect
-abuse of educators. furloughs, layoffs, hostile work environments, cronyism, scapgoating

what’s even more amazing is the amount of dedicated, qualified people who try to enter the position.

Rick L in ATL

January 23rd, 2013
1:20 pm

From the fearless columnist Walter Williams:

“Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major.

Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT.

Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors.

Schools of education should be shut down.”

(There is some disagreement over whether education majors or business majors are the worst college students, but there’s no disputing they’re both lining the bottom of the barrel).

bootney farnsworth

January 23rd, 2013
1:20 pm

considering the social engineering we’re forced to endure, it amazes me we can hire anyone at all

Rick L in ATL

January 23rd, 2013
1:25 pm

@ Beverly–many admins have indeed also leveraged their weak degrees into high-paying APS jobs. An APS Ph.D we had extensive dealings with could neither write nor spell, had a work ethic as flaccid as his handshake, and working with him convinced me that colleges will give a Ph.D. to any fool willing to write enough tuition checks. But yes, you’re right–incompetent admins are an order of magnitude more harmful than weak-degreed teachers.

Prof

January 23rd, 2013
1:31 pm

@ Mountain Man, 1:09 pm. Of course not. That is my point! Ph.D.s in Educational Leadership still come from Colleges of Education, that are the subject of this Report.

I would point out though that two of the problems you note are mandated by law, so the administrators can’t do anything about them, no matter how excellent they are. Social promotion is allowed by Georgia law; and spending on SPED students is necessitated by IDEA, which in turn is mandated by federal ADA-law.

Understanding Atlanta

January 23rd, 2013
1:31 pm

It’s not a Georgia problem. It’s a problem with education programs in the country’s colleges and universities. The requirements to become a teacher seem lax. As a Physics major I had a few classes with Mathematics Education majors and if I ever saw one of them teaching at my child’s class I would have to request a new teacher. They didn’t have good critical thinking skills, lacked elementary mathematics skills, and were actually the lowest performing students in the class.

How can we increase the caliber of student that goes into education – better compensation, support for new teachers and flexibility in how to teach certain subjects in engaging ways. Improving the profession also includes holding teachers responsible for what they can control.

Beverly Fraud

January 23rd, 2013
1:43 pm

@Maureen, then that sounds like it as least has the potential to be a step in the right direction.

“Every staff member, including cafeteria, custodians, completes a climate survey on the principal.”

Question is, do these surveys have any real weight to them. And do they protect those evaluating. Does the “anonymous” survey for example asks questions (What year do you teach, how many years have you taught, etc.) that in reality do not promote a free environment to rate?

“Race to the Top is not driving the work. The work is driving Race to the Top. These are initiatives we wanted to do. We didn’t have the money to do them. Race to the Top gave us the money.”

And who will continue to pay for these things once the grant runs out? Ahh….

bootney farnsworth

January 23rd, 2013
1:52 pm

God save us from the social initiaitive of the week.

Mountain Man

January 23rd, 2013
2:38 pm

“Social promotion is allowed by Georgia law; and spending on SPED students is necessitated by IDEA, which in turn is mandated by federal ADA-law.”

Is social promotion ALLOWED of MANDATED by the State. Either way, it is stupid. The State law SHOULD be than NO child shall be promoted to the next grade without adequate mastery of the current year’s subject matter.

If the Federal Govenment requires exorbitant spending on SPED students, then they should provide Federal funds to achieve that – otherwise it is an “unfunded mandte”. WAY too many of those things. The Georgia Constitution only requires the State to provide an “adequate” education. For a SPED student with a mental age of 6, that would not be much. We don’t need court cases that stipulate that the local school system have to pay $20,000 a year to send a student to the “princess” academy in a different state.

Mountain Man

January 23rd, 2013
2:43 pm

“I would point out though that two of the problems you note are mandated by law, so the administrators can’t do anything about them, no matter how excellent they are.”

I was facetious about #3, also. No administrator (and certainly no teacher) can MAKE a student come to school (or MAKE a parent send the student). That is up to the PARENT and the STUDENT. Just fail the student and jail the parent.

Progressive Humanist

January 23rd, 2013
3:08 pm

At the university where I teach, students must have a 3.0 during their freshman and sophomore years to be accepted to the college of education. The students coming here have among the highest GPAs and SAT scores of any public school in the state. The content course work is certainly not as advanced as, say, math instruction at Georgia Tech, but they’re going to be teaching k-12 so they need to have a grasp of the more basic levels they’ll be dealing with- algebra, trig, etc. Beginning their junior year, students are in a k-12 public school for at least 20 hours a week while they take 4-5 additional courses. During their senior year they are student-teaching nearly full time (about 35 hours a week), while also taking 3-4 courses, reading textbooks, and turning in assignments. Their counterparts in the history, English departments, etc. are sitting in class 8-12 hours a week, taking quizzes, and writing papers… that’s it. While a degree in education is often seen as lacking in rigor, the students in the college of ed at this college have to put in a lot more work than those who earn other degrees in order to earn theirs and gain certification. Rigor can be defined in different ways.

Matt321

January 23rd, 2013
3:44 pm

If you want higher quality teachers, there’s an easy solution that won’t require using a bunch of imprecise measurements such as grades or tests – just pay Georgia teachers more money. There are only so many openings a year. Once the pay is high enough to attract good candidates, the local school boards will be able to pick the cream of the crop, evaluating each candidate on a whole person basis. Let other states hire the bottom half of teachers, while the top half fight to get a position teaching in Georgia.

NTLB

January 23rd, 2013
3:48 pm

So what else is new? The poor quality in teacher preparation in Georgia has been the root of the evils in GA’s public school education.

NTLB

January 23rd, 2013
3:50 pm

Also, just because you earn a good grade in college, does not mean you can TEACH well.

Starik

January 23rd, 2013
3:52 pm

So, PH…what college is this?

http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm

January 23rd, 2013
3:54 pm

A sounder teacher selection process might likewise thin the ranks of malcontents. This would no doubt be a great relief to functioning educators — as well as readers weary of the constant carping which goes on in Maureen’s AJC playpen.

mark

January 23rd, 2013
3:59 pm

One more year and I will be vested. Go find a physics, chemistry, earth science, nutrition, child development teacher. I am done! Off to greener pastures, that have more green $.

Just Sayin

January 23rd, 2013
4:02 pm

Amen to that @ NTLB excellent grades don’t make you a good anything. My sister is a head nurse at the hospital she works at and can testify to the fact that some of the worst nurses she has ever had to train or work with were the ones that were the straight ” A,” Magna Cum Laude graduates. Book smarts does not equal real world experience. Some of you are so high horsey ( I know it isn’t a word) about teachers and education, but you forget that some form of teacher or instructor is why you have the education you have now. Oh and don’t give me that self-educated crap cause I ain’t buying it. The truth of it is that most of you self-righteous, know it alls needed an education to get where you are and now you want look down your nose at the profession. I bet some of you are the worse offencders in the when it comes to your own child or childrens education. You’re too busy leaving snarky remarks online.

Just Sayin

January 23rd, 2013
4:04 pm

I meant ” worse offenders when it comes to your own child or children’s education.” Sorry for the crazy figures.

Home-tutoring parent

January 23rd, 2013
4:21 pm

Our schools are wracked by differing objectives.

Most of you don’t know that most of our (named by city or part of the state) public universities that produce most of our K-12 teachers were originally called “normal schools” whose matriculants were 13-14 year old “grammar school” graduates.

These normal schools cum teachers’ colleges cum state universities rarely have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter. The teaching corps invented another honors fraternity (mostly sorority) , Phi Delta Kappa. PDK is not even close to being equivalent to PBK.

If you have kids, you might think about finding out if their teachers attended PBK-chapter universities, and if they did, what GPAs they earnestatd. For all institutions, a 2.5 GPA means you are sadly confused, a 3.0-3.5 GPA means you are somewhat confused, a 3.8+ GPA means you mastered the material. But a 3.8 GPA at Augusta isn’t the same as a 3.8 at UGA, and a 3.8 GPA STEM degree at UGA isn’t the same as a a 3.8 GPA STEM degree at GT.

Who do you want to teach your kids? Who do you want to teach other people’s kids, in a “knowledge-based economy”? B-/B//B+ GPA regional state university grads aren’t going to help your kids, or their classmates, reach their full potential.

I have stated many times in different forums, a 2.5 GPA is sufficient to graduate and take a degree, but it is not sufficient to teach.

Progressive Humanist

January 23rd, 2013
4:45 pm

@ 4:21

The way universities started out 100-150 years ago? Irrelevant.

Phi Beta Kappa vs Phi Kappa Delta? Couldn’t be more irrelevant.

The rest- gross generalizations

GPAs are more a measure of long term effort than they are of knowledge and skills. Courses that test objective knowledge will almost always yield lower grades and therefore cause lower GPAs. But success on objective assessments and factual knowledge often do not necessarily translate into successful skills, particularly in occupations that require a high degree of personal interaction. Performance assessments tend to be better measures for those types of jobs. But courses with a high degree of performance assessments, which can be very subjective, often yield higher grades and are therefore seen as less rigorous. So simply clumping all course work together and using GPA as the ultimate measure isn’t a wise way to assess a graduate or their preparation for a certain occupation.

Home-tutoring parent

January 23rd, 2013
5:02 pm

We learned some “take-home lessons” from home education. Morning learning was great, after lunch, not so much. So we did other things. Saturday morning study was effective. Studying 46 weeks per year was effective.

We learned that there were many fantastic summer-school programs, such as Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, Washington U St Louis, U California, et al. “Give it a try Honey, if you don’t like it we’ll fly you home.” Our kids had a blast. “Take-home lesson”, my kids don’t need me anymore, they’ve discovered a bigger world.

My BIL and SIL’s son is really bright. Conventionally schooled, his top college choices are U Montana and Az State. Sad.

I have a dear friend who went to Cornell and Hopkins. Her boy is probably going to Cal Poly. Maybe UCSD, but Cal-Berkeley is out of the question. I explained to her the problem problem: give up your job, trade in the Mercedes for a Camry, get a smaller house, you don’t need 4 bedrooms and 4.5 baths for three people. You are brilliant, your son Vincent is brilliant, but his Cal State U alumnae teachers are not.

You can’t have really smart kids being taught by not-that-bright teachers and expect great results.