Georgia earns a C for how well it selects and prepares its teaching force. Colleges are not selective enough.
The National Council on Teacher Quality gave Georgia an overall grade of C in its teacher preparation policies, docking the state points for the lack of selectivity in admissions to teacher prep programs and for ridding classrooms of under performing teachers.
Still, Georgia outperforms the rest of the nation. The average grade nationwide was a D plus.
Here is a link to the full 2012 Georgia report.
The report recommends:
Georgia should require programs to use an assessment that demonstrates that candidates are academically competitive with all peers, regardless of their intended profession. Requiring a common test normed to the general college population would allow for the selection of applicants in the top half of their class while also facilitating program comparison.
Requiring only a 2.5 GPA sets a very low bar for the academic performance of the state’s prospective teachers. Georgia should consider using a higher GPA requirement for program admission in combination with a test of academic proficiency. A sliding scale of GPA and test scores would allow flexibility for candidates in demonstrating academic ability.
In addition to ensuring that programs require a measure of academic performance for admission, Georgia might also want to consider requiring content testing prior to program admission as opposed to at the point of program completion. Program candidates are likely to have completed coursework that covers related test content in the prerequisite classes required for program admission. Thus, it would be sensible to have candidates take content tests while this knowledge is fresh rather than wait two years to fulfill the requirement, and candidates lacking sufficient expertise would be able to remedy deficits prior to entering formal preparation
In addressing the readiness of states to teach the new Common Core Standards, the report warns: Unfortunately, Georgia’s policies fail to ensure that elementary teacher candidates will have the subject-area knowledge necessary to teach to these standards.
The council also noted that 86 percent of undergraduate teacher preparation programs in Georgia are not selective enough because they don’t require that candidates come from the top half of the college-going population.
Here is the official statement from the council:
The National Council on Teacher Quality today released its sixth annual State Teacher Policy Yearbook, with a special focus on the state laws, rules and regulations that shape teacher preparation. This 2012 edition of the Yearbook provides Georgia with a tailored analysis, Improving Teacher Preparation in Georgia, which identifies the teacher preparation policy areas most in need of critical attention, as well as “low-hanging fruit,” policies that can be addressed by Georgia in relatively short order.
The state received a grade of “C” for its teacher preparation policies in 2012, with no improvement since 2011. The average grade across all 50 states and the District of Columbia is a “D+”.
NCTQ President Kate Walsh said, “With so much attention on the issue of teacher effectiveness, the relative lack of attention to how candidates for teaching are prepared for the job in the first place is puzzling. The Yearbook provides a road map for policymakers on how to get teacher effectiveness right from the start – by setting higher expectations for what teachers need to know and are able to do before they are licensed to become teachers. Our teachers deserve the very best preparation so that they can step into the classroom and help our students prepare to be the most successful in the world.”
Some of Georgia’s teacher preparation policies most in need of critical attention include:
•Raising admission requirements to ensure that teacher preparation programs admit candidates with strong academic records.
•Ensuring that elementary teachers know their subject matter and have the knowledge and skills to be effective reading teachers so that new teachers are ready to teach to the Common Core State Standards.
•Closing loopholes that allow some secondary science teachers to teach subjects in which they may lack sufficient content knowledge.
•Eliminating generic K-12 special education licenses that lower the bar for special education teachers and make it virtually impossible for the state to ensure that these teachers know their subject matter and are prepared to teach grade-level content.
•Requiring that teacher candidates receive a high-quality summative student teaching experience and are assigned to cooperating teachers who have demonstrated evidence of effectiveness as measured by student learning.
•Establishing minimum performance standards for teacher preparation programs. Although Georgia is one of only eight states that requires the use of student achievement data, minimum standards are necessary to hold programs accountable for the performance of their graduates.
The report also identifies ways that the Georgia Teacher Academy for Preparation and Pedagogy, the state’s alternate route into the teaching profession, could be improved.
This year’s Yearbook comes in advance of NCTQ’s forthcoming (Spring 2013) Teacher Prep Review of the higher education-based teacher preparation programs in the nation. A key area of focus in both reports is admission standards, and the 2012 Yearbook includes a sneak peek of data from the Review, which finds that 86 percent of undergraduate teacher preparation programs in Georgia are insufficiently selective, failing to ensure that candidates come from the top half of the college-going population.
Walsh continued: “The 2012 Yearbook will serve as an important companion to NCTQ’s forthcoming Teacher Prep Review, which will identify programs that are doing the best job of preparing tomorrow’s educators, those that need to improve and those that need restructuring. The Yearbook’s recommendations can help state policymakers build a strong policy framework for effective teacher preparation so that our teachers get what they deserve: training that provides them with the tools they need to lead a classroom the day they graduate.”
–from Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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114 comments Add your comment
Jake
January 23rd, 2013
10:23 am
This is the core of the problem: colleges are in the business of making money, the economy is bad and people use the bachelors degree to get into a fast track certification program at both public and private colleges and universities. If one meets the minimal requirement to get into the college, certification is assured no matter how poor of a student teacher one is. It is a crime truely, colleges are putting out students that are poor teachers. I have supervised numerous interns, many whom I was tough on and didn’t reccomend to pass. They passed. It should be like med school and on a curve. The problem isn’t solely with the colleges. The standards in college are weak. Students feel since they paid they deserve A’s, then if they don’t professors get poor evaluations, then professors start dispensing inflated grades to get better student evaluations. This doesn’t happen in Europe. This is a direct result of turing colleges and universities into capital corporations that are at the demands of the “customers” they serve. In the public schools this is the new catch phrase, “customer service.” It’s dangerous. These are students not customers at a resturant. If we cow tow to student evaluations in fear of losing jobs then society fails all. The demands on students in higher ed are equal to that of my mothers 1950’s HS education. It is so dumbed down today.
10:10 am
January 23rd, 2013
10:57 am
Besides providing parents with more schooling choices for kids, perhaps legislators need to concentrate on making turnover of ineffective/chronically dissatisfied K-12 staffers more rapid … so that the ten or more qualified applicants for each open teaching position have an opportunity to show what they can do.
RCB
January 23rd, 2013
11:05 am
A 2.5 GPA at some of Georgia’s colleges would be a 1.0 at others. There needs to be a knowledge-based exam for all teachers BEFORE they graduate. Same exam at all colleges.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
11:08 am
Unfortunately, Georgia’s policies fail to ensure that elementary teacher candidates will have the subject-area knowledge necessary to teach to these standards.
I’m sure Invisible Serf would fine that quite ironic.
I agree teaching preparation is inadequate. Where are the copious amounts of hallucinogenic drugs along with daily showings of the remake of Apocalypse Now starring Big Bird in the role of Colonel Kurtz?
That might prepare you for the horror of what’s about to ensue.
The horror…
sneak peak into education
January 23rd, 2013
11:09 am
I agree totally. I went to teaching college here as a non-traditional student and was shocked at the lack of knowledge that my classmates had about the world we live in. I also emigrated from across the pond and knew more about Georgia/USA history, politics, geography, etc… than many of born and raised Georgian classmates. I think we should look at the Finish model for choosing and training future teachers; it’s outstanding and produces great results. Of course, with any program that looks to attract the top achievers, teaching is going to have to pay more and provide better working conditions. I don’t believe that providing an entrance exam or bar-type exam at the end will do anything to raise the standards. I think that if you can pass the coursework and the GACE/Praxis that should be sufficient. Adding another bar exam will only create another layer of bureaucracy that can charge exorbitant fees for study courses, test prep, and exams.
the good doctor
January 23rd, 2013
11:16 am
What grade does the NCTQ gives our State legislatures for the way they compensate teachers? If I am highly qualified, nationally board certified, and my students grades reflect that they are learning (without any cheating or unlawful aiding of course), how will I be compensated?
Hal Bierce
January 23rd, 2013
11:24 am
The problem is pay. Those higher performing students will not enter these programs if the promise at the end is being overworked and under paid.
Mountain Man
January 23rd, 2013
11:29 am
I think that APS should check ALL of their teachers and only extend contracts to those who maintained a 3.5 GPA average in a nationally ranked college. I don’t know who will teach the children then, though.
Just A Teacher
January 23rd, 2013
11:31 am
@ the good doctor “How will I be compensated?”
Inadequately.
Prof
January 23rd, 2013
11:43 am
I think you will need to change more than the entrance standards for teacher preparation programs in colleges; you also will need to change the internal standards of the courses within the Education colleges. To judge anecdotally from the Education students I’ve had over the years in my non-Education graduate courses, they seem to be used to getting A’s for minimal effort and loudly unhappy when they don’t.
Grob Hahn
January 23rd, 2013
11:47 am
So we send our children into schools hoping to get a 4.0 education from a 2.5 teacher? What could go wrong? Why don’t we commission a “study” on this clearly strange and unexplained phenomenon. It can go right beside the one on why Beverly Hall hasn’t been indicted and retains her ill-gotten “awards”.
Grobbbbbbbbbbb
Jake
January 23rd, 2013
11:49 am
Oh Mountain Man….really but what is a nationally ranked university????
Centrist
January 23rd, 2013
11:52 am
The highlights of the report seem hit the nail on the head. I guess the thinking is being graded with a C is good enough, especially since it is better than most states.
Although Ms. Downey posts this above as part of the report, it isn’t mentioned again: “ridding classrooms of under performing teachers”. Big problem, but tenure and cronyism usually trumps a solution of either demanding improvement or replacement.
Centrist
January 23rd, 2013
11:57 am
The highlights of the report seem hit the nail on the head. The thinking must be that being graded with a C is good enough, especially since it is better than most states.
Although Ms. Downey posts this above as part of the report, it isn’t mentioned again: “ridding classrooms of under performing teachers”. Big problem, but tenure and cronyism usually trumps a solution of either demanding improvement or replacement.
Centrist
January 23rd, 2013
12:00 pm
Sorry for the double post – got an “Internal server error” message on the first one.
Teacher Experienced
January 23rd, 2013
12:10 pm
Same thing as always. Teachers are sorry. Funny how in over 19 years I have known well over 1000 teachers in two of the worst schools around and have only seen at the most 15 teachers that were not great and spent tons of their own personal hours without pay to make sure the students had the best education possible. Every industry has its poor performers. How many poor workers do you think you can find at Ford Motor, UPS, Post Office, etc. etc. I would bet the teachers have the lowest percentage of poor workers than any industry. By the way teachers are also some of the finest folk in the world. Lay Off while you still have a some good ones left.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
12:15 pm
Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.
I'll bet
January 23rd, 2013
12:26 pm
I’ll bet you that some of the loudest voices on here talking about teachers are some of the worse workers where they are. As stated in a previous post, there are lousy workers in all professions. I known some people who were straight A students who turned out to do horribly in a work environment. Heck I’ve met business majors that could barely write. Many of the posters on here probably weren’t academic standouts themselves, but always have something to say. If genius was required for every job, most of us wouldn’t be working.
indigo
January 23rd, 2013
12:36 pm
You can graduate from college with a C average and become a teacher.
Requiring this higher standard for teachers in Georgia, and elsewhere, would soon brings cries of “racism” from the black community.
I don’t think colleges have the same rate of social experimenting that our highschools have.
Maureen Downey
January 23rd, 2013
12:42 pm
@Beverly, The principal evaluation looks pretty comprehensive to me:
From my live blog out of the media seminar two weeks ago:
Maureen Downey
January 23rd, 2013
12:44 pm
@Beverly: State is looking at administrators: From my live blog from media seminar on segment presented by DOE official:
reality check
January 23rd, 2013
12:46 pm
You get what you pay for. Even worse, teacher work conditions have become terrible.
I can’t figure out why anybody would go into teaching. The pay is poor and the hours have gotten to be unbearable as school administrators – aka government bureaucrats – inundate teachers with crushing amounts of paperwork.
There are also people criticizing teacher performance at every turn, as evidenced by the report precipitating this article as only one example.
Why not be a RN? The pay is better and will get even more so because there is more demand than supply. Work conditions and advancement are better, it is a respected profession helping people with less bureaucracy, and the admission requirements and education required are roughly equivalent.
Prof
January 23rd, 2013
12:46 pm
@ Beverly Fraud, January 23rd, 12:15 pm: “Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.”
Oh, but we are having such a discussion. Those wishing to become administrators still are taking courses from the College of Education, simply those in a different department: Educational Policy Studies, which offers the necessary Ph.D.s in “Educational Leadership.”
Pluto
January 23rd, 2013
12:52 pm
So teachers=bad and overseers=good? One of the BIG problems I encounter is there are too many CHIEFS throwing chunks of jello against the wall trying to get it to stick. Then they come back again and agian.
Educator of Truth
January 23rd, 2013
12:56 pm
Let me guess, the evaluators of teacher prep programs think potential educators need to jump through even more hoops and for what reason? I have learned over my tenure that much of the policies and methodologies learned in those programs do nothing to change the forecast of student and parental accountability, and it’s far from a sunny day on those fronts. Most people who have an opinion about teachers or education haven’t volunteered one hour in any school or experienced this new generation of parents who constantly make excuses for their children or don’t address their behavioral / academic issues at all. So in my opinion, this grade is as meaningless as the grades we give out on a daily basis. The grade is not a direct indication of how to rectify skill deficiencies, its just a representation to satisfy a political protocol.
Mountain Man
January 23rd, 2013
12:59 pm
“Why are we not the least bit willing to have a discussion about poor administrators? After all a poor administrator can affect an entire school, not just a classroom.”
AMEN, Beverly Fraud!
Any ADMINISTRATOR who has more than 3 days average absenteeism in his/her school should be FIRED immediately. After all, we know that teachers and administrators have COMPLETE CONTROL over what the students and parents do!
Mountain Man
January 23rd, 2013
1:09 pm
“Oh, but we are having such a discussion. Those wishing to become administrators still are taking courses from the College of Education, simply those in a different department: Educational Policy Studies, which offers the necessary Ph.D.s in “Educational Leadership.””
And, Prof, does that guarantee that administrators handle discipline effectively? Absenteeism? Social promotion? Inordinate spending on SPED students?
LaKeisha Jackson
January 23rd, 2013
1:10 pm
Among the other problems cited, you can add the fact that education departments/programs are limited in their ability to be “selective” because other factors…especially diversity…weigh very heavily.
bootney farnsworth
January 23rd, 2013
1:18 pm
frankly, I’m amazed the score is as high as it is.
I see three major issues at play
-HOPE/grade inflation/social promotion. more and more kids in college who are not ready to be there.
-a profession eaten alive by rampant corruption. see APS, DCSS, Clayton, Albany, ect
-abuse of educators. furloughs, layoffs, hostile work environments, cronyism, scapgoating
what’s even more amazing is the amount of dedicated, qualified people who try to enter the position.
Rick L in ATL
January 23rd, 2013
1:20 pm
From the fearless columnist Walter Williams:
“Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major.
Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT.
Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors.
Schools of education should be shut down.”
(There is some disagreement over whether education majors or business majors are the worst college students, but there’s no disputing they’re both lining the bottom of the barrel).
bootney farnsworth
January 23rd, 2013
1:20 pm
considering the social engineering we’re forced to endure, it amazes me we can hire anyone at all
Rick L in ATL
January 23rd, 2013
1:25 pm
@ Beverly–many admins have indeed also leveraged their weak degrees into high-paying APS jobs. An APS Ph.D we had extensive dealings with could neither write nor spell, had a work ethic as flaccid as his handshake, and working with him convinced me that colleges will give a Ph.D. to any fool willing to write enough tuition checks. But yes, you’re right–incompetent admins are an order of magnitude more harmful than weak-degreed teachers.
Prof
January 23rd, 2013
1:31 pm
@ Mountain Man, 1:09 pm. Of course not. That is my point! Ph.D.s in Educational Leadership still come from Colleges of Education, that are the subject of this Report.
I would point out though that two of the problems you note are mandated by law, so the administrators can’t do anything about them, no matter how excellent they are. Social promotion is allowed by Georgia law; and spending on SPED students is necessitated by IDEA, which in turn is mandated by federal ADA-law.
Understanding Atlanta
January 23rd, 2013
1:31 pm
It’s not a Georgia problem. It’s a problem with education programs in the country’s colleges and universities. The requirements to become a teacher seem lax. As a Physics major I had a few classes with Mathematics Education majors and if I ever saw one of them teaching at my child’s class I would have to request a new teacher. They didn’t have good critical thinking skills, lacked elementary mathematics skills, and were actually the lowest performing students in the class.
How can we increase the caliber of student that goes into education – better compensation, support for new teachers and flexibility in how to teach certain subjects in engaging ways. Improving the profession also includes holding teachers responsible for what they can control.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
1:43 pm
@Maureen, then that sounds like it as least has the potential to be a step in the right direction.
“Every staff member, including cafeteria, custodians, completes a climate survey on the principal.”
Question is, do these surveys have any real weight to them. And do they protect those evaluating. Does the “anonymous” survey for example asks questions (What year do you teach, how many years have you taught, etc.) that in reality do not promote a free environment to rate?
“Race to the Top is not driving the work. The work is driving Race to the Top. These are initiatives we wanted to do. We didn’t have the money to do them. Race to the Top gave us the money.”
And who will continue to pay for these things once the grant runs out? Ahh….
bootney farnsworth
January 23rd, 2013
1:52 pm
God save us from the social initiaitive of the week.
Mountain Man
January 23rd, 2013
2:38 pm
“Social promotion is allowed by Georgia law; and spending on SPED students is necessitated by IDEA, which in turn is mandated by federal ADA-law.”
Is social promotion ALLOWED of MANDATED by the State. Either way, it is stupid. The State law SHOULD be than NO child shall be promoted to the next grade without adequate mastery of the current year’s subject matter.
If the Federal Govenment requires exorbitant spending on SPED students, then they should provide Federal funds to achieve that – otherwise it is an “unfunded mandte”. WAY too many of those things. The Georgia Constitution only requires the State to provide an “adequate” education. For a SPED student with a mental age of 6, that would not be much. We don’t need court cases that stipulate that the local school system have to pay $20,000 a year to send a student to the “princess” academy in a different state.
Mountain Man
January 23rd, 2013
2:43 pm
“I would point out though that two of the problems you note are mandated by law, so the administrators can’t do anything about them, no matter how excellent they are.”
I was facetious about #3, also. No administrator (and certainly no teacher) can MAKE a student come to school (or MAKE a parent send the student). That is up to the PARENT and the STUDENT. Just fail the student and jail the parent.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
3:08 pm
At the university where I teach, students must have a 3.0 during their freshman and sophomore years to be accepted to the college of education. The students coming here have among the highest GPAs and SAT scores of any public school in the state. The content course work is certainly not as advanced as, say, math instruction at Georgia Tech, but they’re going to be teaching k-12 so they need to have a grasp of the more basic levels they’ll be dealing with- algebra, trig, etc. Beginning their junior year, students are in a k-12 public school for at least 20 hours a week while they take 4-5 additional courses. During their senior year they are student-teaching nearly full time (about 35 hours a week), while also taking 3-4 courses, reading textbooks, and turning in assignments. Their counterparts in the history, English departments, etc. are sitting in class 8-12 hours a week, taking quizzes, and writing papers… that’s it. While a degree in education is often seen as lacking in rigor, the students in the college of ed at this college have to put in a lot more work than those who earn other degrees in order to earn theirs and gain certification. Rigor can be defined in different ways.
Matt321
January 23rd, 2013
3:44 pm
If you want higher quality teachers, there’s an easy solution that won’t require using a bunch of imprecise measurements such as grades or tests – just pay Georgia teachers more money. There are only so many openings a year. Once the pay is high enough to attract good candidates, the local school boards will be able to pick the cream of the crop, evaluating each candidate on a whole person basis. Let other states hire the bottom half of teachers, while the top half fight to get a position teaching in Georgia.
NTLB
January 23rd, 2013
3:48 pm
So what else is new? The poor quality in teacher preparation in Georgia has been the root of the evils in GA’s public school education.
NTLB
January 23rd, 2013
3:50 pm
Also, just because you earn a good grade in college, does not mean you can TEACH well.
Starik
January 23rd, 2013
3:52 pm
So, PH…what college is this?
http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm
January 23rd, 2013
3:54 pm
A sounder teacher selection process might likewise thin the ranks of malcontents. This would no doubt be a great relief to functioning educators — as well as readers weary of the constant carping which goes on in Maureen’s AJC playpen.
mark
January 23rd, 2013
3:59 pm
One more year and I will be vested. Go find a physics, chemistry, earth science, nutrition, child development teacher. I am done! Off to greener pastures, that have more green $.
Just Sayin
January 23rd, 2013
4:02 pm
Amen to that @ NTLB excellent grades don’t make you a good anything. My sister is a head nurse at the hospital she works at and can testify to the fact that some of the worst nurses she has ever had to train or work with were the ones that were the straight ” A,” Magna Cum Laude graduates. Book smarts does not equal real world experience. Some of you are so high horsey ( I know it isn’t a word) about teachers and education, but you forget that some form of teacher or instructor is why you have the education you have now. Oh and don’t give me that self-educated crap cause I ain’t buying it. The truth of it is that most of you self-righteous, know it alls needed an education to get where you are and now you want look down your nose at the profession. I bet some of you are the worse offencders in the when it comes to your own child or childrens education. You’re too busy leaving snarky remarks online.
Just Sayin
January 23rd, 2013
4:04 pm
I meant ” worse offenders when it comes to your own child or children’s education.” Sorry for the crazy figures.
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
4:21 pm
Our schools are wracked by differing objectives.
Most of you don’t know that most of our (named by city or part of the state) public universities that produce most of our K-12 teachers were originally called “normal schools” whose matriculants were 13-14 year old “grammar school” graduates.
These normal schools cum teachers’ colleges cum state universities rarely have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter. The teaching corps invented another honors fraternity (mostly sorority) , Phi Delta Kappa. PDK is not even close to being equivalent to PBK.
If you have kids, you might think about finding out if their teachers attended PBK-chapter universities, and if they did, what GPAs they earnestatd. For all institutions, a 2.5 GPA means you are sadly confused, a 3.0-3.5 GPA means you are somewhat confused, a 3.8+ GPA means you mastered the material. But a 3.8 GPA at Augusta isn’t the same as a 3.8 at UGA, and a 3.8 GPA STEM degree at UGA isn’t the same as a a 3.8 GPA STEM degree at GT.
Who do you want to teach your kids? Who do you want to teach other people’s kids, in a “knowledge-based economy”? B-/B//B+ GPA regional state university grads aren’t going to help your kids, or their classmates, reach their full potential.
I have stated many times in different forums, a 2.5 GPA is sufficient to graduate and take a degree, but it is not sufficient to teach.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
4:45 pm
@ 4:21
The way universities started out 100-150 years ago? Irrelevant.
Phi Beta Kappa vs Phi Kappa Delta? Couldn’t be more irrelevant.
The rest- gross generalizations
GPAs are more a measure of long term effort than they are of knowledge and skills. Courses that test objective knowledge will almost always yield lower grades and therefore cause lower GPAs. But success on objective assessments and factual knowledge often do not necessarily translate into successful skills, particularly in occupations that require a high degree of personal interaction. Performance assessments tend to be better measures for those types of jobs. But courses with a high degree of performance assessments, which can be very subjective, often yield higher grades and are therefore seen as less rigorous. So simply clumping all course work together and using GPA as the ultimate measure isn’t a wise way to assess a graduate or their preparation for a certain occupation.
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
5:02 pm
We learned some “take-home lessons” from home education. Morning learning was great, after lunch, not so much. So we did other things. Saturday morning study was effective. Studying 46 weeks per year was effective.
We learned that there were many fantastic summer-school programs, such as Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, Washington U St Louis, U California, et al. “Give it a try Honey, if you don’t like it we’ll fly you home.” Our kids had a blast. “Take-home lesson”, my kids don’t need me anymore, they’ve discovered a bigger world.
My BIL and SIL’s son is really bright. Conventionally schooled, his top college choices are U Montana and Az State. Sad.
I have a dear friend who went to Cornell and Hopkins. Her boy is probably going to Cal Poly. Maybe UCSD, but Cal-Berkeley is out of the question. I explained to her the problem problem: give up your job, trade in the Mercedes for a Camry, get a smaller house, you don’t need 4 bedrooms and 4.5 baths for three people. You are brilliant, your son Vincent is brilliant, but his Cal State U alumnae teachers are not.
You can’t have really smart kids being taught by not-that-bright teachers and expect great results.
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
5:24 pm
Progressive Humanist,
You say the past is irrelevant. I’m not conceding to your argument. Past is prologue to future. It makes a great difference to today’s children’s lives whether their teachers earned A/A- GPAs at UGA/GT, versus B+/B/B- GPAs at Augusta State. I didn’t set the 2.5 GPA minimum. Your complaint should be registered with people who did. If you earned a 2.5-3.3 GPA at Augusta, or UGA or GT, you graduated seriously confused.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
5:25 pm
You’re not going to find many Harvard educated elementary school teachers, or secondary teachers for that matter. It’s nice if you can afford to fly your child to Chicago or Cambridge for the summer for supplemental instruction, but the vast majority of parents can’t, and it’s not germane to the conversation.
It’s a shallow argument to suggest that because someone had a 3.9 GPA at Georgia Tech they would make a better k-12 teacher than someone who went to a regional school and had a lower GPA. There’s little evidence to suggest that people with degrees from elite schools or who have the mythical “real world experience” actually do more things in the classroom that increase learning than do education majors from run of the mill state universities. Anecdotes won’t do.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
5:29 pm
“A sounder teacher selection process might likewise thin the ranks of malcontents.”
Like those “malcontents” that tried to testify about systemic cheating in DeKalb County, only to have State Sen. Ronald Ramsey illegally shut down a grievance hearing?
Like those “malcontents” who testified about cheating during the governors investigation, only to have their contracts suddenly non-renewed?
Yep, it’s not like those malcontents ever have anything of value to say, because we all know that public school systems hold themselves to the highest ethical standards don’t we?
Why would we ever want malcontents to speak out, when we know there is nothing inherently wrong with education.
Pompano
January 23rd, 2013
5:35 pm
“I would bet the teachers have the lowest percentage of poor workers than any industry.”
And comments like these by Teacher Experienced demonstrate the hubris of the Public School System Employees. They churn out a failing product year-after-year but somehow think that they are the best-of-the-best – yet fight tooth-and-nail against any efforts at reasonable evaluations or the threat of competition.
The standard mantra of the Public School System crowd: “We’re doing a great job – just take our word for it (and give us more money)”
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
5:36 pm
Home-tutoring,
The bar is 3.0 where I teach, as I mentioned earlier.
Do you have any empirical evidence for your claim that Georgia Tech graduates (or those from similar institutions) are superior k-12 teachers to those from lesser state colleges?
So everyone who graduated from any institution with a GPA of 3.3 was “seriously confused”? I know a few graduates from UGA and GT who would beg to differ. You sure do make some gross generalizations, and gross generalizations are where gross inaccuracies often lie.
Ole Guy
January 23rd, 2013
5:39 pm
Selection? Is there a selection process? Did the entire system receive a major overhaul since my departure? Anyone who breaths, stands, and…oh yea, has the tuition, can become a teacher. Lets bring back a little professional pride to the corps…something which has been conspicuously absent for a long long time.
Starik
January 23rd, 2013
5:47 pm
Please. Where is this terrific education school? Miskatonic? Faber?
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
5:50 pm
“You sure do make some gross generalizations, and gross generalizations are where gross inaccuracies often lie.”
Home tutor, at the risk of making my own gross generalization, I’d say, based on your comment, that with really high GPAs from good universities are exponentially more likely to make gross generalizations than students with low GPAs from lower tier schools.
If I were going to make a gross generalization; I will say however I’m not the least bit confused having graduated 6th grade from the Jethro Bodine School of Grammer and Brain Surjery.
With honors no less.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
5:57 pm
“yet fight tooth-and-nail against any efforts at reasonable evaluations or the threat of competition.”
There is some legitimacy to that point of view Pompano, but please explain, how a system that would allow a teacher to be downgraded for quietly approaching a distracted 8 year old, and reminding him to get back to work is “reasonable”?
Yes, Pompano, you read that right: A teacher can quietly remind an 8 year old to get back on task, the student can cheerfully get back on task, and the teacher can be downgraded with this new evaluation instrument!
And you want to know why teachers are leery of this “reasonable” evaluation?
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
5:57 pm
Progressive Humanist,
Statistics apply to masses. Anecdotes apply to individual humans. In every teaching situation, you are dealing with individual humans.
I have a black DIL. She made croissants for the first time in her life. Not that good.
On second round, I told her to try more dough-rising time. I warmed up a warming drawer for her, but she instead put the croissants in front of the fireplace. She half-listened to me, half got rebellious. Her second-round croissants were “to die for” fluffy. Second time. That’s learning.
Real learning isn’t statistically measurable, it’s off the charts.
Beverly Fraud
January 23rd, 2013
6:08 pm
“Statistics apply to masses. Anecdotes apply to individual humans. In every teaching situation, you are dealing with individual humans.”
@Home, I think that’s the point is progressive humanists is trying to make. Yes, if you looked at 1000 teachers who taught in similar situations, the 500 with a 2.0 from Podunk U probably aren’t as effective as the 500 with a 3.5 from an Ivy League school.
On the other hand Kathy Augustine was Harvard credentialed and thought the public would buy “We see no need to investigate; we expect outliers every year.”
Funny how all these high flying graduates in the “bidness” community saw this as a perfectly plausible explanation, but the graduates from the Jethro Bodine School of Grammer and Brain Surjery saw right through it. (Of course when you get a dual degree, 6th grade no less, in grammer and brain sujery, you’re going to get a rigorous dose of rigor)
Of course to be fair to Augustine, maybe she meant out and out liars every year.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
6:10 pm
Wow. You certainly have a wealth of misconceptions. Your Ivy League 4.0 and Phi Beta Kappa membership certainly didn’t inhibit that.
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
6:22 pm
PH
I suspect that you never earned a 3.9. I started college at 2.7 and worked my way up.
earning all As is a very different experience than getting Bs and Cs. Studying all semester, rather than cramming, is different. Arriving at finals, nervous, but feeling confident, is different from arriving to finals unprepared, and struggling to get through them, “I know this one, I don’t know that one..”
You never got to the straight-A level. Your schools’ fault or yours?
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
6:29 pm
So you think someone with a PhD from a RU/VH school didn’t get many straight A’s? Another interesting hypothesis you have there. They just keep coming.
mark
January 23rd, 2013
6:39 pm
Those Straight A students from GA tech are lining up at the door to teach? Are we serious? Those are harvard grads. Can’t you tell from the way they tie those sweaters around their necks. You think some one is going to spend 100K for an education and get bullied on web sites and in the news. Told off by parents and students. You people are nuts. Race to Retirement or is it, get the ____ out of Georgia!! see ya.
Home-tutoring parent
January 23rd, 2013
7:00 pm
PH,
I understand you. You entered college very smart, but lazy. I was there too, Hon. But I switched to working hard. You didn’t. That’s why you are saying that people who got 3.0 GPAs are qualified to teach other people’s children.
Riiiight. And you’ve been at the forefront of pushing for 240-day school years, right? Because research shows that kids can learn in June, July and August, as effectively as they can in October, January and March, right?
SBinF
January 23rd, 2013
7:00 pm
Undergrad GPA isn’t necessarily an indicator of knowledge or retention.
I finished undergrad with LESS than a 2.5. I barely even graduated, was far more interested in partying. Fast-forward a few years, I grew up, worked a couple of jobs. I pleaded with a graduate program to give me a chance (my GRE scores were in the 90th percentile). They allowed me in on a probationary period. I made a 4.0 my first semester Now I’m preparing to finish my M.S. with above a 3.5. I think the ills of our education system are far too complex to reduce down to one variable (in this case, college GPA).
KIM
January 23rd, 2013
7:06 pm
Thank you, Maureen, for the time you are taking to be well informed on these eval. instruments.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
7:14 pm
HTP- Huh… So earning a PhD in psychology at an RU/VH while teaching full time at a high school doesn’t require hard work? Interesting thought process you have going there. I’m sure you are convinced that you worked very hard to acquire the education to spout off-topic anecdotes and vapid generalizations. I congratulate you.
Pride and Joy
January 23rd, 2013
7:23 pm
There is so much truth in this article. My child’s teacher cannot speak common, everyday English correctly. She never uses past tense and her grammar is atrocious. “The principal have inform me…” “Do your child need a pencil?” Every single sentence, both written and spoken, is wrong and feels like nails on a chalkboard. The worst problem is my child still speaks as she does. My child sat in her classroom six hours a day and listened to her speak and she/he still has bad English habits she/her LEARNED from his/her TEACHER.
How do teachers like this one ever graduate from high school?
Georgia Coach
January 23rd, 2013
7:27 pm
There is no correlation between GPA and teaching ability.
AP Teacher
January 23rd, 2013
7:44 pm
Want to increase selectivity?
eliminate: IBoughtmydegreeonline.com universities.
Addressing the inequality of universities: there are professors everywhere who dont care about you and are only interested in research. Start there then force universities to become selective. Also, professors need to learn how to deliver material.
UGA history courses were awful IMHO (just like high school. Professor didnt care as well as the kids.) No disrespect intended towards the UGA people here. I know world civ isnt that interesting to some, but the lack of professionalism on both sides of the desk were evident.
My history classes at my small “stupid little regional university” according to some elitists here were professional, refreshing, and the professors went out of their way to make sure I knew my content.
That “stupid regional university” was GCSU.
William Casey
January 23rd, 2013
7:57 pm
@Georgia Coach: While I agree with your sentiment that GPA isn’t everything, your statement is absolutely wrong. There is a correlation. It’s just not as strong as one might think.
@Mark: “Those Straight A students from GA tech are lining up at the door to teach? Are we serious? Those are harvard grads. Can’t you tell from the way they tie those sweaters around their necks. You think some one is going to spend 100K for an education and get bullied on web sites and in the news. Told off by parents and students. You people are nuts.”
Thanks for saying what I was thinking. Raise standards in School of Education programs all you want. WHAT is going to draw top notch minds into these programs?
Google "NEA" and "union"
January 23rd, 2013
7:58 pm
For a job that entails only 9 months of work per year, while providing 12 months of taxpayer-subsidized healthcare and retirement benefits … K-12 teaching seems to generate more than its share of bellyaching.
And oddly enough, there’s an oversupply of qualified applicants available. What’s missing appears to be the virtues of free markets!
M.G.
January 23rd, 2013
7:58 pm
I have been an elementary school teacher for twelve years and I have been teaching in Georgia for seven. I graduated from honors from my university in NY State. I am so sick of reading about the poor quality of teachers here in Georgia and every other state. I work to the point of exhaustion every single day I am teaching. I take work home with me in the evenings, I do work on the weekends, and I spend much of the “planning time” I have at school discussing how to raise student achievement.I have not gotten a raise in over 5 years, but I spend my own money to enrich my classroom, and I continue to complete to more and more paperwork, attend more meetings, and spend more time working to make sure that all my students are successful. All of my colleagues do. If you really want to get to the bottom of why students in the US are being outperformed by many other countries you would look at the elephant in the room…THE PARENTS. What about holding parents accountable for how their children perform in school? The majority of the students I work with that perform well in school can thank the people that the go home to. The parents that check their bookbags, ask them how their day was, help them with their homework, and read to them at night. The ones that care about how they behave in school, answer their phone when the teacher calls, and write a letter back to the teacher when there is a concern. They come to the parent teacher conferences, and they ask the teacher how they can help their child at home. They make no excuses. The students that often perform the lowest are the ones that go home to people that are too busy or too preoccupied with the rest of their lives to show their child that they care about their academic success and want them to be successful at school. There is a pattern. They miss the parent teacher conferences, they don’t answer their phones, they don’t respond to letters you write home, they don’t help their children with homework or read to them at night, and they don’t try to help their child when you tell them their child is failing your class..even when it is Kindergarten! Stop blaming teachers for the poor results in Georgia. we are tired of being scapegoats.
old teach
January 23rd, 2013
8:03 pm
Yes, one of the ideas proposed above is to raise teacher pay to attract the best candidates. But the model presently used by Georgia is the “Beatings will continue until morale improves” model.
Prof
January 23rd, 2013
8:13 pm
@ Progressive Humanist. Cheers and Bravo, as usual.
Prof
January 23rd, 2013
8:33 pm
And, Home Tutoring Parent, what exactly is the source of your superiority that allows you to judge Progressive Humanist, et. al., as you do, aside from the Ph.D. from UGA in English Literature that you mentioned a few blog-threads back? Are you now a tenure-track or tenured professor at one of the state research universities? Are you perhaps on the state BOE? In fact, have you ever taught at all, K-12 or otherwise? Home-schooling the captive audience of your son does not count.
Teacher-Bashing
January 23rd, 2013
8:41 pm
Another article blaming teachers and colleges for the sorry state of affairs in education. Schools are a reflection of our society which I am sorry to say is going down the toilet. There are and will always be weak teachers just like in any profession, and I am not saying that is right or fair. Also you can’t compare our schools to countries like Norway that don’t deal with the same social problems we have in this country. I could go on and on with more reasons this article is so slanted. Race to the Top or any other program is not going to be an over night fix. @ Maureen D., you have no clue to what goes on in the regular classroom. Until Parents and Students are made to be more responsible for their children’s education, No Program will improve our national education program or Georgia’s for that matter. All Race to the Top has done in Ga. is put more strain on teachers with more paperwork which does not prepare them to be better educators. In addition, any time the federal gov. gets involved, they just make the situation worse. I wouldn’t adivise anyone to become a teacher. I’m a teacher and have been assaulted 2 times by students. If the economy wasn’t so bad and didn’t have the years invested in teaching, I would quit in a minute.
Teacher-Bashing
January 23rd, 2013
8:41 pm
Another article blaming teachers and colleges for the sorry state of affairs in education. Schools are a reflection of our society which I am sorry to say is going down the toilet. There are and will always be weak teachers just like in any profession, and I am not saying that is right or fair. Also you can’t compare our schools to countries like Norway that don’t deal with the same social problems we have in this country. I could go on and on with more reasons this article is so slanted. Race to the Top or any other program is not going to be an over night fix. @ Maureen D., you have no clue to what goes on in the regular classroom. Until Parents and Students are made to be more responsible for their children’s education, No Program will improve our national education program or Georgia’s for that matter. All Race to the Top has done in Ga. is put more strain on teachers with more paperwork which does not prepare them to be better educators. In addition, any time the federal gov. gets involved, they just make the situation worse. I wouldn’t adivise anyone to become a teacher. I’m a teacher and have been assaulted 2 times by students. If the economy wasn’t so bad and didn’t have the years invested in teaching, I would quit in a minute.
Tech Prof
January 23rd, 2013
8:50 pm
Will the new model for higher education funding in Georgia result in more selective admissions — only accepting students who can finish the degree? Or, will the new model results in lowered admission standards hoping that more getting into programs will result in more graduates and, therefore, more $$ for the college/university?
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
8:52 pm
Prof-
Thanks. I do enjoy bantering with the crazies.
I’ve never thought to ask my child’s elementary school teacher what her college GPA was. I’m just concerned with whether she’s a good teacher or not, and I’m not convinced that GPA is the most important indicator. I would be concerned if she had an online degree, but she went to the brick and mortar school where I currently teach so that’s fine with me as long as I see the right things in the classroom. (I’m not one to give a teacher grief unless there’s strong reason to think she’s doing something detrimental.)
Those of us who have studied the subject know that intelligent, resilient kids can thrive under the most inauspicious circumstances. Every year there are kids from poverty stricken environments who are accepted to Yale, Princeton, and Harvard. The idea that students won’t be successful unless they have a teacher from an Ivy League school with a 4.0 GPA is ludicrous, but I guess everyone who spent 12 years in a classroom is an expert in education these days.
State universities churn out good teachers every semester, and all universities can churn out some bad ones. I agree that standards for entrance into most CoE’s should be tightened, but there aren’t big bucks or a plethora of jobs in the field right now so I’m not sure how you then attract the cream of the crop. But, no, an elementary teacher does not need a degree from MIT to effectively teach addition and subtraction. They need to know all the basics, have some knowledge of best practices, know something about human development, and have the temperament and personal skills for the job. GPA and pedigree are much further down the list at that level.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:13 pm
Prof-
Thanks. I do enjoy bantering with the lunatic fringe.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:13 pm
I’ve never thought to ask my child’s elementary school teacher what her college GPA was. I’m simply concerned with whether she’s a quality teacher or not, and I’m not convinced that GPA is the most important indicator. I would be concerned if she had an online degree, but she went to the brick & mortar school where I currently teach, so that’s perfectly fine with me as long as I see the right things in the classroom. (I’m not one to give a teacher grief unless there’s strong reason to think she’s doing something detrimental.)
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:14 pm
Those of us who have studied the subject know that intelligent, resilient kids can thrive under the most inauspicious circumstances. Every year there are students from poverty stricken environments who get accepted to Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc. The idea that students can’t be successful unless they have a teacher from an Ivy League school who was a member of Phi Beta Kappa with a 4.0 GPA is ludicrous, but I guess everyone is an expert in education these days, especially those who have never done or seen empirical research in their lives.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:17 pm
Those of us who have studied the subject know that intelligent, resilient kids can thrive under the most inauspicious circumstances. Every year there are students from poverty stricken environments who get accepted to Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc. The idea that students can’t be successful unless they have a teacher from an Ivy League school who was a member of Phi Beta Kappa with a 3.9 GPA is ridiculous, but I guess everyone is an expert in education these days, especially those who have never done or seen empirical research in their lives.
State universities churn out quality teachers every semester, and all universities can churn out some poor ones. I agree that standards for entrance into most CoE’s should be tightened, but there aren’t big bucks or a ton of jobs in the field right now so I’m not sure how you then attract the cream of the crop. But, no, an elementary teacher does not need a degree from MIT or Purdue to effectively teach addition and subtraction. They need to know all the basics, have some knowledge of best practices, know something about human development, and have the temperament and personal skills for the job. GPA and pedigree are further down the list at that level.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:19 pm
State universities churn out quality teachers every semester, and all universities can churn out some poor ones. I agree that standards for entrance into most CoE’s should be tightened, but there aren’t big bucks or a ton of jobs in the field right now so I’m not sure how you then attract the cream of the crop. But, no, an elementary teacher does not need a degree from MIT or Purdue to effectively teach addition and subtraction. They need to know all the basics, have some knowledge of best practices, know something about human development, and have the temperament and personal skills for the job. GPA and pedigree are further down the list at that level.
Progressive Humanist
January 23rd, 2013
9:21 pm
Those of us who have studied the subject know that intelligent, resilient kids can thrive under the direst circumstances. Every year there are students from poverty stricken environments who get accepted to Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc. The idea that students can’t be successful unless they have a teacher from an Ivy League school who was a member of Phi Beta Kappa with a 3.9 GPA is ridiculous, but I guess everyone is an expert in education these days, especially those who have never done or seen empirical research in their lives.
KIM
January 23rd, 2013
10:15 pm
I have to agree with AP Teacher. You can’t swing a cat without its tail hitting an Ed. D or Ph. D. in education at this time. And I would love to see the stats on how many are from the online degree places. In educational round table discussions, those weakest participants are those Drs. who graduated from those institutions. The traditional school M. Eds. or M. As. or Ed. S. graduates put them to shame in each setting. Many can’t speak nor write nor contribute to scholarly study or work. It is so disheartening.. Time to start calling it what it is: the roll out of pieces of worthless paper.
AlreadySheared
January 23rd, 2013
10:44 pm
Echoing William Casey above…
All this talk of raising tandards for entering teachers is pushing on a string. I.e., in a profession where the 5 year attrition rate is 50%, the quality of entrants is not going to rise until working conditions and salaries do.
N. GA Teacher
January 23rd, 2013
10:44 pm
The debate here is over the WRONG QUESTION! It is not who the college admits to education programs in their sophomore or junior years or postgrad programs but WHO THEY ALLOW OUT!!!!! The best teachers are those with a good balance and variety of education and skills. Yes, teachers, especially at the high school level, need to be well-versed in subject matter. But not nearly as much as college profs. All teacher grads should be well-written and well-spoken (use proper English, correct pronunciation, correct grammar, have good presentation and poise, etc.). Grads should have many hours of interaction with a diversity of children ethnically and socioeconomically, for this is the reality of public schools. Grads should have a good work ethic, reserved temperaments, be good organizers, and be very cooperative with colleagues. Grads should also be savvy to school politics and other grim realities, so their idealism is tempered with realistic expectations. By the way, there is a ton of work and time put into obtaining an education degree, and a number of “pass points” unlike other college majors. First, education colleges must “accept” majors based on some criteria, like SAT scores, course grades, interviews, etc. History or English or biology don’t filter them after admittance to the university! Second, education majors must complete sophomore/junior observation hours and selected courses. Many choose to change majors after they see the gritty realities of public schools when they discover that not everyone is from Mayberry. Those who make it to the senior year must undergo a grueling student teaching experience and obtain passing evaluations from the mentor teacher, the university student teacher professor, as well as the profs whose courses they are taking concurrently. Again, many students suffer reality checks and drop out at this point. Finally, upon graduation, the students still are NOT really employable until they achieve state certification, usually accomplished by passing several tests over educational law, history, classroom management, teaching methods and yes, subject matter. By this point only the most tough and dedicated are left. Now, being a 30-year teacher who has worked with graduates of many colleges, I will admit that some programs produce clearly superior graduates, notably the large public universities. I would imagine that places like Duke and Vanderbilt also produce excellent grads, but I have yet to work with them. So yes, the Deans and Professors at some education colleges MUST try to improve the quality of graduates.
AlreadySheared
January 23rd, 2013
10:48 pm
And to whoever was throwing around GPAs above – I don’t know what’s going on now, but back in the day at Ga Tech they didn’t pass out A’s like candy. The average GPA for graduating seniors the year I got out was 2.6. Honors 3.0, high honors 3.2, highest honors 3.4. C’s were earned back then, they weren’t a default grade.
catlady
January 24th, 2013
7:00 am
Pluto: Those are not chunks of jello. LOL
As to the central question: It was not so 40 years ago. You had to have a certain GPA (back when not everyone was above average) and pass tests in spoken and written English.
Even as recently as 1990, FSU picked from the top applicants. GPA was usually above 3.2, and experience was expected (such as substitute teaching).
In order to get a graduate degree in 1973 in education, you had to have 5 or 7 years of experience in the classroom, as well as be fluent in a foreign language (administered by the language department)! Imagine how few of our current administrators would satisfy those requirements!
Mary Sue
January 24th, 2013
7:20 am
Teacher education classes need to be revamped to be more demanding. I received my bachelor’s degree in English and went back and did two years of post-bac to get certified to teach middle school. The education courses were a joke. I had a 4.0 for my two years of education courses with very little effort on my part. Require middle school and high school teachers to get a degree in the subject they wish to teach, and then they can minor in education to get the pedagogy classes and practical experience necessary to teach.
lyncoln
January 24th, 2013
7:23 am
Looking at the overall report I don’t think this ‘grade’ means much. The average state got a D+. No state got an A. States that are considered to have wonderful public schools have the same ‘problems’ as Georgia. Not selective enough for teaching programs, etc. Heck, according to the overall study Georgia is above average!
I give this report as much weight as I give some of the other ‘grades’ that have come out in the past few weeks — not much.
USG Professional
January 24th, 2013
7:27 am
If you think it’s bad now, just wait. Once college funding is tied to graduation and retention rates, your dog will be able to graduate from a public college in Georgia.
Wilbur
January 24th, 2013
7:31 am
Students I know in schools of nursing were vastly more prepared academically than education majors. I shudder to think what the education majors look like at second and third tier schools. Of course we produce great teachers and have every year for generations. it’s just not a system that seems designed to do so.
The certification test to become a nurse is the real deal. No whining from RN’s about being tested, being evaluated or expectations of performance.
SBinF
January 24th, 2013
8:18 am
“For a job that entails only 9 months of work per year, while providing 12 months of taxpayer-subsidized healthcare and retirement benefits … K-12 teaching seems to generate more than its share of bellyaching.”
Oh good God. You really should inform yourself before posting. Teachers are paid only for the time they work. The salary is spread across the entire year. There was a time when this wasn’t so, and teachers would be paid during the school year, not the summer.
If it’s such a cushy job, why aren’t you doing it? Certainly students could really benefit by learning from someone with your keen intellect.
Rob
January 24th, 2013
8:46 am
Oh look. More bureaucratic measures towards the standardization of education. I guess colleges will be told to go on the business model next.
I read recently that the state of Georgia is going to start funding colleges based on the number of students that graduate rather than success. Happy day.
NTLB
January 24th, 2013
8:48 am
@lyncoln, NYC selects its teachers after an extensive interview, and they have to teach a lesson to the selection committee;, Massachusetts has one of the toughest teaching state license exams to pass; I personally know of a teacher that moved to teach in Georgia because she couldn’t pass the teaching certification test for Texas..and she has a M.A.! ..I beg to differ that teacher qualifications are the same across the board.
FlaTony
January 24th, 2013
9:16 am
I am posting my remarks on this subject without having read all the details. I apologize in advance for redunancies that may occur.
I have served on teacher education committees in our universities and was appalled at some of the procedures, practices and policies surrounding teacher education programs in our state. The most egregious of these was the mention of university students needing a “fallback” major should they not be successful in other majors. That said it all in a nutshell.
Selective processes such as higher scores on SAT or ACT were pushed aside because these scores might “unfairly exclude” students from a program.
The numbers and hours of courses for education students frequently outnumbered the courses required for a major in the field. This was especially true for teacher candidates that would teach secondary level courses.
Beefing up entrance requirements for teacher education programs should be required of the university system. It is imperative that we get rid of the thinking processes that allow teaching to be considered as a “fallback” career. And we should actively recruit those college students with high academic ability to go into teaching. Of course, this would also mean that politicians will have to stop villifying teachers, offer higher pay and benefits, eliminate excessive standardized testing, and provide sustainable pathways for school improvement.
reality check
January 24th, 2013
9:38 am
Admission requirements are not the answer. There are a lot of extremely successful people in all professions in this country who had modest admission credentials and plenty who had all the credentials in the world who are not that successful. There is almost no correlation between where someone goes to school, GPA, and lifetime earnings.
The glaring thing about the teaching profession is that each state has its own certification test. When I took the CPA exam I took the same test every other aspiring CPA in this country took and passing scores were not determined by the state.
Great Teachers: Effingham County’s Mark Weese teaches the wonders of science | Get Schooled
January 24th, 2013
10:05 am
[...] in the Department of Language and Literacy Education at the University of Georgia: “After the post about how awful the teaching force is (based on a report by an outfit dedicated to making schools look bad), I hope there’s room for [...]
AlreadySheared
January 24th, 2013
10:12 am
@reality check,
I believe (with no supporting evidence) that Georgia gives the GACE exams instead of using Praxis so that they can set their own passing scores while eliminating the possibility of their testing criteria being compared with other states’.
Prof
January 24th, 2013
11:31 am
@ FlaTony, Jan. 24, 9:16 am: “I have served on teacher education committees in our universities and was appalled at some of the procedures, practices and policies surrounding teacher education programs in our state.”
By “our state” do you mean Florida or Georgia?.
Once Again
January 24th, 2013
12:34 pm
Many folks including the great African American economist Walter Williams have looked at the data and it clearly shows that education majors are at or near the bottom in nearly every measure of academic achievement. That includes GPS, SAT scores, GRE scores, etc. Colleges of education are a monopoly, regulated and controlled by state teaching cartels, and highly insular. There is no innovation, no deviation from the current (failed) direction, and ultimately self-perpetuating. Basically that is a description of the current government school system as well, so this should come as no surprise.
GA may get a C, and the national average may be a D, but one has to wonder, given how top-down controlled this entire establishment is, just how good could an A actually be? Again, its not as though any of these institutions operate within the framework of a truly free market, where consumer satisfaction, voluntary payments, and consumer financial support has the power to alter directions and put failures out of business. On the contrary, these numerous, repeated, and well-documented failures always result in the same calls for MORE MONEY.
As if that is the problem….
Get your kids out of the system and save their futures.
Progressive Humanist
January 24th, 2013
1:03 pm
The above analysis is an over-generalization. When I looked at GRE test scores by content area a few years ago, it showed that elementary teachers and administrators did score very low, alongside business majors, but that secondary-level teachers actually scored relatively high, similar to engineers (although engineers tended to score high on the quant and average on verbal, while secondary teachers did the opposite).
Apparently secondary teachers, who do need a higher level of content knowledge, tend to have it. As long as elementary teachers have mastered the elementary levels in all subjects, it doesn’t matter if their GRE scores are off the charts or not. It is, however, concerning that administrators score so low, and that does say something about the bureaucracy.
But those who have a “sky is falling” mentality about our education system are simply fear mongers. The data is more nuanced than that. We have a higher percentage of literate citizens now than the nation has ever had. That’s a sign of success. You may also want to look at the report out of Stanford that Maureen posted last week that suggests our mid and upper income students do well compared to those of other countries, while our students from low socioeconomic backgrounds have been making gains at the same time those from other countries have been falling further behind.
Progressive Humanist
January 24th, 2013
1:17 pm
And in all the talk about GPAs and standards, there is something that gets overlooked- the fact that a great deal teaching success or lack of is determined by personal interactions, which are not measured by GPA or test scores.
In my time observing and supervising student-teachers, I have noticed an interesting disconnect. Often, I’ll encounter a student who is really on the ball. Their content knowledge, grades, quality of assignments, organization, attention to detail, etc. are all very strong. They write detailed lesson plans covering everything they should. These students inevitably have high GPAs. I would think “This student will be very strong in the classroom,” and then I observe a lesson that is ineffective from beginning to end. Their students are bored, disengaged, and cause disruptions that the student-teacher can’t manage.
In contrast, I have had students who are very weak on paper. They’re disorganized, detail is lacking, their assignments are of low quality, their lesson plans do not look well thought out. These students tend to have lower GPAs. But then I observe them in action and they consistently churn out fabulous lessons. Their students are engaged and take an active role in academic work.
These types of situations may be the exception rather than the rule, but they are not uncommon. I am often surprised that a student-teacher’s performance in the classroom many times does not coincide with their performance on paper. It’s a mistake to think we can narrow down teacher quality to one variable such as GPA, or even more shallowly, whether they went to a tier one school or not.
beteachin
January 24th, 2013
1:26 pm
1. I am amazed at the low intellect of some of my fellow teachers and administrators. It’s downright embarrassing.
2. I’m sure this is true in other fields besides education, but it just doesn’t seem right when we’re guiding the next generation to mediocrity and government dependence.
3. Some of the teachers need to go, but administrators can’t get rid of them.
4. Administrators often want to get rid of the wrong people. (If we don’t “get on board,” maybe it’s because we don’t want to go where their ships are sailing!)
5. I have devoted my adult life to a very broken system, but the children in this sinking ship are worth it.
6. Our children deserve adults who can fix the problem.
7. The home life of our children is far more broken than the school system.
8. Teachers are taking the blame for the ills of our entire nation.
9. The goal is to meet every child where he is and move him forward–NOT to artificially place each child in the same end spot at the end of the day.
10. God help us.
FlaTony
January 24th, 2013
6:26 pm
@Prof – Sorry for the lack of clarity. Originally from Florida, most of my career has been in Georgia. The panels of which I spoke have been for University System of Georgia schools.
lyncoln
January 25th, 2013
12:40 pm
@NTLB
I can’t argue with your statements. But your examples are directed to the hiring process or licensing process within a state, not the preparation programs within the state.
Neither of those things are considered as part of this report. This report just states that GA is above average at the policies used to produce teachers. The top 4 (with B- scores) are Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, and Indiana.
I don’t disagree with you that the hiring and licensing practices vary from state to state. Other states may have weaker teacher preparation systems (in terms of allowing candidates into the schools), but they use stricter hiring and license requirements to weed out weaker teachers from ever entering the classroom.
In general if the problem is that we are hiring ‘weak’ teachers, you can either make it more difficult to receive training as a teacher (higher rquired GPA to declare as an education major) OR you can make it more difficult to be licensed and hired to be a teacher (difficult licensing exams, teaching a sample lesson to a panel of teachers, etc.)
I think that past problems of having too few available teachers have caused states to relax the requirements for both preparation programs and hiring programs to increase the pool of potential teachers to fill empty positions. Also, the many ‘alternate paths’ that have been implemented are there to provide a larger pool of teacher applicants.
If stricter requirements are added to entry into preparation systems or hiring processes the number of available teachers will decrease and states will have to find other methods of filling empty teaching positions (like increasing salaries or hiring teachers from overseas). Since budgets for schools are decreasing at the moment, it isn’t viable to increase salaries. And political backlash might make it difficult for hiring teachers from other countries.
It’s why I give the results of the report a shrug. I like what they want to do, but I don’t see how implementing the recommendations will help our current situation where schools struggle to find enough qualified applicants to fill open positions.
Dr. Monica Henson
January 25th, 2013
10:35 pm
Progressive Humanist posted, “t’s a mistake to think we can narrow down teacher quality to one variable such as GPA, or even more shallowly, whether they went to a tier one school or not.”
Absolutely true. When I hire a high school teacher, I want to see that they had high marks in the content area (as opposed to an overall high GPA), but there are a lot of intangibles that can’t be measured by college grades.
As an administrator, I’ve encountered teachers who could plan a lesson to the nines, organize paperwork, and talk a fantastic game, yet their students hated the class, were bored & disengaged, and did not demonstrate strong outcomes.
I’ve supervised other teachers whose written lessons were somewhat slapdash (although well thought-out when you compared the chicken scratch to what happened in the execution in the classroom), forgot to take attendance because they were so absorbed in the instructional activities, and were late submitting grades, but students adored them and there was always a waiting list to get into their classes, which produced great achievement outcomes.
seen it all
January 28th, 2013
1:37 pm
Being a student who attend a “selective teacher education program” back in the early 2000’s, I can tell you this– the program selected applicants who looked “good”. No seriously. They picked young white girls who looked like they would fit into the average public school teaching corps. The selection process was not about academics or ability, but rather if they thought you could look and act like the average public school teacher. And the biggest factor was your potential employability after graduation. If you didn’t get a job right away after graduation (in many cases, securing a job before you officially graduated), the teacher ed department looked bad in the eyes of the college. That was the biggie.
On a side note, it’s a similar phenomenon with graduate programs. The percentage of students who are admitted into grad programs must receive diplomas “on time.” Colleges and universities are actually rated on this. The “for profit” universities are particularly bad at this because they charge so much money, you must get a diploma or it’s bad for business. And since you NEVER, EVER see or meet any of your peers in your courses, you don’t really know what kind of work they are doing or the quality of these students. It’s all about the money– both public, private, and “for profit.”
Who We “Let” Become Teachers | EduSanity
January 29th, 2013
12:00 pm
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