Decision day for DeKalb: State board considers fate of school board Thursday

My wife was a Dekalb county teacher in the early 90’s. This stuff was going on then. The Governor needs to shake up that corrupt organization and put the children’s needs first.

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concerning the stupid emphasis on speaking in one voice:

horsepoop. the right, the need to be able to offer a dissenting opinion is vital to the health of any organization. SACS just wants all the noise to go away so no one looks behind the curtain at the mighty and powerful SACS

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Get rid of them all!

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note to Fran Millar

how about fixing your own damn house before inflicting yourself on the rest of the state?
based on the SACS report, you appear to be more of the problem than a solution.

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@ dunwoody mom

1-great job in illustrating why we don’t trust parents
2-you are not our employers any more than you are the Falcons. get over yourself.

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“Serving on a school board requires that elected officials sometimes put aside the desires of their constituents, the people who live on their street and belong to their church, for the betterment of the system as a whole”

@Maureen I hope that isn’t a veiled criticism of New Birth, and its leader Bishop Eddie Sandusky.

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Ooops…that should read Bishop Eddie Long. No idea where the name Sandusky came from.

Sincere apologies.

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@bootney, those two words together in print do look rather foolish don’t they?

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@ Beverly

freudian slip?

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I am pleased that we have enacted certain legislation to allow the Governor to intervene on failing schools. I would like to see this taken to the local level, where local mayors also have this power. This is part of a larger issue around school accountability and when intervention can happen. I would also include parent trigger legislation in this discussion. Unfortunately, the current soundbites from Lindsey indicate a miscalculation on the intent of such legislation. It is NOT supposed to be about the automatic explosion in charter schools. Read the CA legislation and you will see that it is about schools that are failing and that parents could petition for various OPTIONS, one which is a conversion to a charter school.

Should make for another spirited debate in the Capitol.

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“unified voice” only works well in small systems with no ‘variety’ — in a system like Dekalb — with issues across the board and students withe 180 degree ‘diversity’ on everything — from economics to ability to language, goals, family situations, etc. — “unified voice” is an insane goal — it it crazy – the board needs to be able to flush through all of the issues and agree on policies that make sense for the funds in place that benefit all of the 100,000 children with all of these vast variety of needs — the goal doesn’t fit the situation — this is insane! Further, there is nothing in what SACS does that requires or reviews forensic audits, budgets, tax returns (not required by the state or the feds even though the budgets are in the millions with tax payer money) — that looks to see that the budget is used as proposed for the actual benefit of the kids and as promised to the taxpayer… There is nothing to look and see that the salaries being paid are “consistent” with salaries paid in other “similarly situated districts; that “policies” are consistent (e.g. for “charitable” donations to various organizations or payroll deductions or for releasing open records requests….) with that that are done in similarly situated district in state or out of state or that what is being done with the money actually benefits the children — yet, taxpayers have been spending billions of dollars a year on the school system and re-elect pretty uneducated board members to continue with the charade. No one pays careful attention to the total picture and the state doesn’t come in to scrutinize what really happens with accreditation — which a system like DCSS has been paying over six figures for year after year for decades (to be accredited and for advice to maintain said accreditation). What’s there for the kids?

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@Bootney, I am smiling. Perhaps we are making progress at forging common ground That is a GOOD thing!

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@ beverly

regardless if its a trigger clause as you suggest, or a official advocate as I suggest, the obvious thing is a desperate, crying need for an independent checks and balances system for Georgia government

if Nathan and red meat Fran will put one in place …..but that would require putting the state ahead of a political hobbyhorse

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“That said, I question the SACS stance, also reiterated in its reports on other districts, that school boards should speak with a united voice on most issues. Board members have a right to question and a right to disagree.”

There is a time and place for everything. Yes, board members have a right and a duty to question and disagree. They then have the right to vote yea or nay according to their wishes and the wishes of their constituants. AFTER the vote is taken, they THEN should support the decision of the board.

I think that is what gets a lot of individual board members in trouble, they dissented and were on the short end of the vote. They then harbor resentment and try to undermine the decision at every opportunity.

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And one of the new board members and his “community” are responsible for Eugene Walker be elected to the BOE. So, no, this new BOE is the same as the old board.

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bootney, your 10:42 is EXACTLY correct! Just send in your money, folks!

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bootney farnsworth
January 13th, 2013
10:42 am

You are absolutely correct in your assertion dissenting voices must be heard but I have a differing read on how to interpret the “one voice” comment from SACS. I believe what they are saying is that any dissenting arguments should be worked out by the board in session, ALL voices should be heard during board meetings, but board members should not be using the media to advance their agenda. Once a board member speaks out to the media, they should be representing the board consensus. If the board cannot reach consensus, that unfortunately underscores the problems that seem to be prevalent in some of our counties.

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Can we please stop pretending that, just because DCSS in FUBAR SACS is a white knight in shining armor that has only the best interests of students in mind?

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The SACS report only looked at the BOE. Does SACS also examine administrations?

There are millions of dollars that can not be accounted for and the BOE does NOT spend money.

The issues with Dekalb County Schools are multifaceted. The BOE is dysfunctional and needs to be replaced. The administration is also dysfunctional and needs to be replaced. Dr. Atkinson and all of the people she brought into the system need to leave it ASAP. Also needing to leave is Ramona Tyson and any high level people left from the Crawford Lewis cabal. Central palace salaries need to be severely cut to reflect the current financial realities.

DCSD needs to implement an accrual accounting system with an on-line check registrar so everyone can see where the money is being spent. Administrators need to start following policy regarding purchases.

With all the money saved all the school house employees should be given a raise. They are the ones who work with our children.

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Beverly Fraud
January 13th, 2013
1:57 pm

To your first question, not a clue, I wasn’t there.

To your second question, yes, really.

A properly functioning board meets in public session while the media reports on the goings on. Dissension is aired in the public board session (only exception being when employment is being discussed), the public is then informed of the meeting by the media and has an opportunity to weigh in. Maybe that is pie-in-the-sky but it is the gold standard. What you speak of in reference to Jean Dodd was NOT a matter of board concensus. The very fact that Jean Dodd did NOT agree with the way the board was handling/accepting what was happening proves concensus had not been reached. Dodd was stuck between a rock & a hard place with how to handle it, a perfect example of a dysfunctional board which is NOT what I am describing. If we read between the lines, SACS is outlining how a board should function in its dealings with the media. If only the principals will heed it. Do I think SACS is the end-all authority? No.
But do I believe they are trying to point out the problems so grossly apparent in highly dysfunctional boards? I think so.

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indigo
January 13th, 2013
3:14 pm

Hear, hear.

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I don’t think this is the board that DeKalb wants at all. I think it’s the board that SOME of DeKalb wants. I am tired of churning through board members where we care and still being stuck with a majority of idiots in the other areas. I am furious that me, my children, and my tax dollars are held hostage by a system that is too large, too corrupt, and there is nothing I can do about it except turn over my one board member.

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Georgia overall may vote Republican, but Dekalb has been run by Democrats for 40 years. Good luck with changing that, unless you’re going to split the county in two. A full 64% of my property tax is for education, and look what we get. The admins don’t need more money, they need ethics and integrity. Some of them could use a refresher course on the English language, too.

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Sorry for the format of the previous post.

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An almost $1B budget and 98K students warrants SOME expertise. Shame on the Administration, SACS, the State Dept of Ed and this ridiculous school board for allowing us to get in this mess. First, this entire board needs to go. PERIOD. Jester’s lobbying to save her own hide is not disguising her greater ambitions. Walker would like to hide behind state auditors because one of his dear friends lost his CFO job for being completely inept. Cunningham and Wood are elected because they do care about the kids, but have no earthly clue what to do about helping them out. Now, we have a member of CLew’s old guard, Melvin Johnson, who is directly connected to New Birth. After the governor suspends the Board, he needs to clean house at the Palace and gut the Central Office. Our administrative costs are ridiculous and unfounded. Atkinson shuffled the deck chairs after the audit and just moved people around. Administrators became principals without salary decreases?? That is not saving money in case anyone was wondering. We need to get to a place where the schools are run with a commitment, a budget and with leadership. Seeing that Atkinson has been on the job for a little over a year and has already had to hire legal counsel to represent her shows we have more of the same and that she needs to go.

Yes, Dr. Walker, DeKalb Parents are the adversaries because this county has smart, self-made and well-educated residents who know crap when they see it and really resent paying for it. We are done watching you and your cohorts drive the poorest schools into deeper ditches and ruining the communities and taking away the educational rights of children.

All I can say is “GAME ON” – there are parents, community members and business owners who are tired of watching a group of 9 corrupt and self-serving individuals hold the county hostage because they can. Time for all of you to leave and we know that none of you have enough class to do the right thing and leave on your own.

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@ LOGIC

Do you think school board members should be
elected, or appointed across the state?

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Board members come and go and nothing has changed. Superintendents and their administrations have come and gone and nothing has changed. We can’t keep doing the same things and expect different results.

I’m hearing more and more about Nancy Jester’s Portfolio District solution. This appears to be gaining momentum.

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Private Citizen – “in the late 60’s thru the mid 70’s, DeKalb was the gold standard in Georgia”

And then, the full effects of ultra liberal social experiments began to kick in.

The net results of this are shown by DeKalb going from the penthouse to the outhouse.

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@ indigio

actually, the change in DeKalb was mostly due to the sea change in Atlanta politics brought on by the election of the Godfather, Maynard Jackson.

when Maynard got elected, several things happened almost at once. local systems hopped on the new bandwagon by promoting blacks into positions they had never held before. most were qualified, some were not. either way, it annoyed/scared the middle management level whites who lived in central DeKalb they bolted to Gwinnett. this left a vacuum which was filled politically and numerically with blacks migrating to the new Atlanta and all it promised.

sadly for every good hard working professional which came in, a lowlife opportunist came in with them.

several dominoes later….

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note for clarification:

white people didn’t have to leave DeKalb. they chose to. justified or not, white flight put DeKalb’s fall into motion

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This is sad. Without a doubt, many qualified individuals were passed over. I left the system without a deserved promotion in which I was well qualified after 9 years as an Assistant Principal. There were many promoted over me, who soon proved to be unqualified and later were either fired or resigned in same. Many, as myself, decided enough was enough and decided to resign or go to other systems. THE BOARD NEED TO QUESTION AS WHERE ARE THE FUNDS FOR THE STUDENT’S BOOKS. THERE SEEMS TO BE A STINKING AIR OVER 25 MILLION DOLLARS FOR BOOKS THAT OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT BEEN PURCHASED.

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@Attentive, if what you assert is true, would this perhaps be the reason Arne Duncan came to APS twice to politically prop up Beverly Hall after the AJC blew the lid off the cheating scandal?

The odd thing is, this push to change education in this manner would go completely against conservative philosophy; you’d think it would get more play in those conservative circles.

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“Jester’s lobbying to save her own hide is not disguising her greater ambitions.”

From what I’ve seen, seems Jester wants to shine some sunlight on the mold that is DCSS. Willing to admit I’m wrong however, LOGIC.

Please enlighten.

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Moderation
January 13th, 2013
4:03 pm

Your uneasiness in locally elected boards being uprooted/circumvented by the state bothers me as well. It reeks of the punitive/paternal view of how to run things we seem to have in this state. On the other side of the coin is the situation Dekalb currently finds itself in, a totally dysfunctional board facing accusations of impropriety, etc., that needs a higher power to step in to help right the ship. I like your idea of an auditor to which the elected school board would be answerable. That way, the locally elected officials would continue in their duly elected role but under close monitoring & guidance of an expert. Yeah, that will happen in GA.

But, I’m an optimist. One of my many faults…

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Pete Moss
January 13th, 2013
4:24 pm

I, for one, do NOT blame/suspect the rank & file of DCSS’s woes. Knowing some DCSS teachers professionally, I’m sure the kids are getting the best these teachers can offer under the circumstances. My own experience, when I went through a series of superintendent changes and resulting administration changes in Rockdale County back in the early ’90’s, is that the teacher corp plugs on in spite of the upper level turmoil, doing the best they can with what they’ve got. I suspect the same is true in DCSS. BUT, I do know of quite a few experienced teachers in various sub-specialties that have fled DCSS for Gwinnett and other counties when they had the opportunity in the past few years. When good people start to flee, it is almost too late to do something that is not drastic.

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Public HS Teacher
January 13th, 2013
7:41 pm

No argument here. I’ve seen unions in action up north when I taught there and they are not the bogeymen the uneducated believe them to be. I have personally witnessed poor teachers counselled out of the profession and marginal teachers get the support they needed to improve. I know, I was one of those marginal teachers. Collective bargaining is not the sole responsibility of a union, the responsibilities ignored by the union-bashers include maintaining the integrity & standards of the profession. You do not become a member of the IBEW if you do not successfully complete their apprenticeship program. You get kicked out if you consistently do shoddy work.

But it is easier for some to listen to the lies of those with a vested interest in suppressing unions.

Getting a union-hater to research what I have outlined above to verify it is an exercise in futility, I know.

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Auditor
I love the idea of an auditor. SACS insisted Dekalb establish and maintain a clear and direct line of authority between the Internal Auditor and the DCSD Board. I remember the DCSD board consistently asking the administration for this auditor. The administration refused to give the board an auditor.

SACS, in response, reneged on their requirement of the board having an auditor thereby screwing the public and the board saying The Director of Audit and Compliance will report
up through the Superintendent.

WTF SACS? Thanks for nothing!

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The Portfolio District
Like Nancy Jester or not, this interesting. There is school choice, autonomous schools and money follows the child. Does anybody have any experience with this model?

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Scott Holcomb has a good synopsis of the history of SACS warnings to DeKalb. This has been going on for quite some time now.

Background:
On December 17, 2012, the DeKalb County School District was put on probation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS). This was a consequence of the findings in a report prepared by a Special Review Team. A copy of the report, which is worth reading, can be found by clicking here.

The length of the probationary period is one year, during which the governance of the district must improve across the areas cited. Otherwise the district will lose accreditation.

Read the rest here:
http://www.votescottholcomb.com/news/view_news.php?id=115

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I am in favor of removing the entire board because I do not think the majority of them have the skill or capability to actually do the job. Regardless of how much oversight or direction they are given, I do not think they can do it. No matter how good the instructions, I could not perform heart surgery. I don’t think this group can do it, and I think the only reason they would want to succeed is to be able to pat themselves on the back and bask in the glory. They are not doing it for the kids. I think any replacement would be better than what we have, and then let that new group try out the portfolio strategy. Walker, Cunningham, Copelin-Wood, and Edler (not sure about the newbies) do not have the skills to turn this school system around. Period.

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Where is the administration’s responsibility in this?

Board Of Education – Responsibilities
The Board of Education is the official policy making body for the DeKalb County School District. They don’t have the ability to jack squat except set policy and approve reports/budgets/expenses, etc…

Question
What policy is this board or some replacement board going to enact that is going to turn this system around?

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I’m sure my taxes will be going up as a result – wonder how much? Anyone know what changed for Clayton county property taxes as a result of their debacle?

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Two things are true.
First, DeKalb has the board it deserves and wanted.

The schools should lose their accreditation if the board can’t get its act together.

Even if the dumbo’s in Dekalb want their schools led by petty tyrants, incapable of real leadership, SACS has a responsibility to hold the schools to a reasonable standard. DeKalb is a disaster and worse is coming if folks don’t wake up and start making changes.

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Hopefully they will be gone soon. The group that oversaw the downfall of what used to be the best system in the state is not the group to fix the problem. Please sign this petition…

http://www.change.org/petitions/georgia-governor-nathan-deal-replace-the-dekalb-county-school-board-2?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=url_share&utm_campaign=url_share_before_sign

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This board of bozos needs to go! No question, no hesitation, just send them packing.

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Atkinson has been taking some small positive steps. But she just seems over her heard. Budgets and school facility plans both came in at the last second. Her prior school district in Ohio nearly got taken over by the state because of financial problems.

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We have to get back on track to talk about how to get students and teachers what they need. The Board and the Administration ARE the obstacles. Look at legal fees, lack of proper project oversight (SPLOST III & IV) and lack of PAID resources not in the classrooms (read textbooks, paper, soap, etc.)

Point 1 – SACS is the governing body and accreditation agency, whether we like it or not. I agree with many of the comments posted, but there is no disputing the accuracy of their findings. Unfortunately, it is a day late and a dollar short. There is no need to “defend” SACS report because it is factual and “damning” as these elected individuals did not fulfill their obligations as they were sworn to do. PERIOD. I am sure that many of us think we have better ideas than our principal, CEO, etc. but it is not our job to do their job – it is our job to do the job that we were hired to do. Knowing that even the most “esteemed” representative who has a strong blog behind her every word and breath has personally gotten involved in the firing of a principal, secret meetings that she led to circumvent other board members and the representation of their districts to rig the system during redistricting post 2010 census is a good reason for the SACS attacks on her part. Also keep in mind that not only parents went to SACS – employees, administrators and board members went to SACS with facts and evidence. No one is without reproach in this situation. SOLUTION: Have the Governor ask SACS to deliver a Situational Analysis as to how this was allowed to happen on their watch and take steps to close the loopholes and gaps that allowed this to go on for so long.

Point 2 – The prolonged financial issues point to the fact that the state auditors do not do real audits and reconcile the books. Why are there not financial standards for each system in the state? How can we change accounting practices based upon the Superintendent? In a system of unqualified elected individuals, there need to be better checks and balances to protect taxpayer dollars. Instead, we have a tremendous amount of waste. We all need to address this with the state to get more dollars to the schools and not in administrators’ pockets. Our teachers suffer because people don’t and can’t do the job they were hired to do. SOLUTION: Identify where the audits are lacking and make the auditors do their job.

Point 3 – A DCSD Board cannot do its job if the administration is inept. The Board should have an easy job and meet just to approve valid budgets and policies recommended by the administration. They would represent his or her district and ensure that there is logical balance in how things are run. We have a case of “Garbage in, Garbage out.” SOLUTION: Suspend the entire Board, bring in educational policy experts from each district, reconcile the KPMG report to the actuals and clean house in the Central Office. The Board cannot do this, but a mandate from the Governor can force some change to break the “Friends and Family” disease and the employment pipeline that has been built for the inept in DeKalb. Each school needs to be able to provide for the needs of its students. Let me be perfectly clear – each school and student body has different needs. Funds need to be allocated to the schools and we need to build up our principals to be efficient and innovative leaders who connect with the parents and the students. EVERY DeKalb child deserves a decent school that will give him or her a foundation to succeed. EBooks will not give our children that, but teachers will.

I am sad that it has taken this long. I know too many wonderful teachers who have left DeKalb and now we are in desperate need of qualified teachers. We have borne the burden of the corruption and ineptitude on the backs of our teachers who have not had a raise in over 5 years, have been subjected to reviews by students who haven’t even gotten textbooks(!) and we still aren’t talking about the children and those critical teachers who spend the entire day with them.

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Other than Nancy Jester, can anybody defend this Board of Education? THEY are the ones that hired Lewis, Tyson and Atkinson (Jester, Speaks, McChesney voting no). THEY are the ones that time and time again fail to require the Super(s) to come up with a budget that didn’t not affect the education of the children of DeKalb. THEY are the ones who have just failed, failed, failed. We don’t need a SACS report to know how these board members, new members as well, have constantly meddled where they should not have. We have all heard stories of threats to parents, principals and teachers – it is still occuring. Seriously, I understand the issue with SACS, but to attempt to put this all on SACS is not realistic.

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The solution is simple. If the school board memeber wrote an email advocating the hiring of a relative, get them out. If the school board member berated an administrator to the point of bringing them to tears, get them out. If it can be proven that a board member overstepped their bounds, get them out. HOwever, make sure Deal doesn’t utilize this opportunity to promote some nepotism or cronyism of his own. He has a history of doing just that.

Also, relative to the actual performance of the staff, I think DeKalb should have an objective of turning over 10% of the teachers and administrators every year. There are a lot of ineffective teachers and administrators in the schools, but I get the impression that if they just keep quiet and don’t make waves, they are in no danger of losing their jobs. A 10% turnover each year would allow the system to get the ineffective teachers and administrators out of the system.

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The right to vote certainly does not mean the intelligence to do so. Some folks “holler “about better education and management and vote in the same incompetent buffoons. Yes, race is involved, and do not fool yourself or others by saying otherwise. This does NOT mean that any race is not qualified to be elected. It IS saying that whether black, white, or green you should vote in competant people. Negative stereotypes have been GRANDLY re-enforced by some of this stupidity. If the state or SOMEBODY does not take over, it will never be fixed. NEVER-EVER! (And sadly, many of the voters who ACT like their concern is education and nothing else know it!) Who the heck is moving to most (not all, but most) of the school district and sacrificing their kids? The only folks in the system are those with no choice, and they KEEP PUTTING THESE FOLKS IN, and blaming others for the terrible failure!

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Does any board member (except Jester who has raised the issue that administratiave salaries are actually higher now than last year YTD) review those monthly HR reports and compare them month to month? If so, you will realize that the nonsense about decreasing the Central Office was and is nonsense. Has any board member asked Atkinson why? No.

The BOE was due to answer the GADOE as to how they intend to correct the budget deficit, which I believe is around $20 million. Has this report been delivered to the GADOE? This district is $20 million in the hole and yet, this board continues to approve expenditures for MORE legal fees, etc., That alone should merit suspension.

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So sorry about typos and grammar issues. When I type when angry, my brain moves faster than my fingers.

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ConcernedMom
I agree. Walker 5 hired Dr Atkinson. She started making decisions they didn’t like, so now they are trying to get her out. Questions 1) Name one thing the board hasn’t let Dr Atkinson do. 2) What is the administration’s responsibility in this mess?

Ernest
I think the culture of the BOE advocating for citizens (for better or for worse) is born out of the administration not listening to the public. The BOE rep is the only place people can go sometimes.

Dunwoody Mom
I would like to defend the BOE to some extent. The BOE is between a rock and a hard place. The job of the BOE is to set policy. We would like the BOE to ask questions and get to the bottom of things. SACS has made it perfectly clear that asking too many questions is a bad thing and threatens accreditation. Where is the administration’s responsibility for coming up with those crappy budgets? The threats to parents, principals and teachers are coming from the administration.

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Dunwoody Mom, you’ve also got to ask why are Board members doing many of the things that they do. My recollection is that Dr. Atkinson presented a balanced budget however Board members did not approve it. As a result, they went through a very public process of reviewing line items and approving at that level. This opened the budgeting process up for the community to advocate for various programs/services. In my opinion, detailed analysis involving the community is not the role of a Board member. I don’t know of any other school district that goes through a budget approval process like DeKalb.

I will also say that Dr. Atkinson, like Dr. Brown, inherited a mess. As she has begun to unravel what she is finding and make the tough decision, she is being undermined by the community and Board members in doing so. We are constantly seeing a ‘rob Peter to pay Paul’ type of scenario with the budget. At some point in time, you have to bite the bullet and make the tough decision however she isn’t being allowed to.

A long time saying in DeKalb is ‘The squeaky wheel gets the grease’. There is a LOT of squeaking going on.

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@Ernest, that budget may have been “balanced”, but it was devastating to our children’s classrooms. No budget should be offered up that was as devastating to the education of this district as that budget was. The BOE should have rejected and told Atkinson to go back and produce a budget that didn’t affect class sizes, teacher salaries, teacher benefits, etc.,

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Richard Braswell, I can make grapes grow on corn stalks and I like doing it – a lot. Unfortunately, this activity is not supported in official required role playing culture. From what I can tell, Georgia either plays “dumb / nobody home” or else they intend for kids to not be educated. Many for-real educators run into a complete brick wall and bulldozer coming at them from the political caste, aka “school management.” It is notable that state heads allow distant initiatives from Gates / Duncan to place and enforce a system of incoherence and “complexities and shadings” to everything. And that way the state head can collect their paycheck and role play “helpless” and “seeking.” But let me tell you, some of know what we are doing and know how to do it. And from what I have seen, it is these who say “I’ve had enough of this sh- – , I’m out of here.” And it is not the kids or the work they know how to do that is giving them trouble. Grapes / corn stalks? No problem. There’s also people who can competently rebuild electronic racing transmissions. Believe it or not, there are some people who know which end is up.

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One problem is that the entire state education management culture is anti “know what we are doing and know how to do it.”

They have all been lobotomised by the outside money and Gates / Duncan brain washing. Their idea of top level management is to be on standby waiting to be told what to do.

Hey Dunwoody Mom, http://www.topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/internet-high-five.jpg

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Ernest, it’s really easy imo, you cut that Central Office until they are rattling around in that huge facility. We can cut para’s and put 40 kids in our class, but do we really need a “Field Trip Clerk” or more “administrative” personnel in the Central Office. I review the job postings on the PATS system daily and am alarmed and disgusted by the number and type of non-teaching positions listed.

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Race is overplayed as an issue creating the board incompetence. Rarely do we have whites and blacks running against each other and an someone unfit of the district’s majority race winning. Unfit people have beaten people of the same race (for example Ms. Copelin-Woods).

And yet, Bowen, Walker, Speaks and Jester were all highly qualified, intelligent individuals. And 2 were on each side of the board split on most issues.

The issues are the priorities. Bowen and Walker have emphasized the employment aspect of adults over the children. They seem to have viewed the administrative employees as who they were supposed to represent.

The other problem in Dekalb is tribalism as someone phrased in a little different way above. For example, some North Dekalb groups pursue their own interests while accusing other groups of pursuing their own interests at the expense of the district as a whole. There are “tribes” like that all over the county with differing interests and distrust of the other groups, each feeling they are being discriminated against (and only the heavily immigrant population along Buford Highway has much of a case). Their representatives often represent the distrust and the need to protect their “tribe.” Now race does contribute to that distrust, but the distrust transcends race.

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We have been pointing out for going on five years now the sheer hypocrisy of Mark Elgart’s and SACS’s actions. SACS’s so-called “standards” are a way to keep elected school boards in line and a way to protect superintendents and the politically-connected (uh, perhaps certain school board attorneys? Hmm.). SACS is simply used as a tool to keep the politically-connected in some kind of control once they have lost the control at the ballot box. See Clayton County and DeKalb County.

The Atlanta Public Schools (APS) was different because the politically-connected (uh, King & Spalding, Price Waterhouse, et al., perhaps) were still apparently getting what they wanted. So, a blind eye (literally a “blind eye”) was given to the shenanigans of the Beverly Hall Administration. And, these same “connected” people and institutions apparently took an active role trying to cover up these shenanigans and to prop up the already-disgraced Beverly Hall Administration. I believe ole Markie Mark Elgart also took an active role in trying to keep Hall’s house standing…before it came crumbling down.

What Mark Elgart and SACS did in Clayton County was unconscionable. This was all started because the two apparent favorites of SACS (Chairperson Ericka Davis and Vice Chairperson Rod Johnson) were seeing their unethical actions exposed and their powers slipping between their fingers. Hence, these two apparently thought that they could just use their friend Mark Elgart and SACS to scare Norreese Haynes into submission. Mr. Haynes was bringing about most of the heat on these two by his courageous expose of such matters as the now-infamous “land deal” in Clayton County, a deal that was pushed through without the signature of the superintendent. Richard Belcher on WSB TV 2 did a two-night report alone, interviewing Mr. Haynes at length. On one day alone, the four main local network news stations in Altanta as well as the national FOXS News called Mr. Haynes for interviews, but trying to be a “team player” on the school board, he turned down their requests for interviews.

After this and other matters which Mr. Haynes exposed, Rod Johnson filed a formal complaint which consisted of mush. Mr. Haynes responded forthright with a 12 or 13 page complaint of detailed information with about 20 or more exhibits to SACS, demonstrating with great persuasion the unethical actions of Ms. Davis and Mr. Johnson who were apparently pointing the finger at him and others. What did Mark Elgart do with this detailed complaint provided to him and SACS (and sent, I believe as well, to attorney Glenn Brock, who seems to work hand-in-hand with Mark Elgart)? Well, Mr. Elgart just observed the “pass over.” He just passed right over it.

Instead, Mr. Elgart and SACS came out with a “report” that was, as Norreese Haynes labeled it the very day that it came out on February 15, 2008 in his own press release that was carried in the AJC and attached as a PDF, “a sham and a farce.” I read the so-called “report.” It was pitifully written and of virtually no substance. In fact, it was full of factual errors as well. SACS didn’t want to know the truth about what was going on in Clayton County. Initially one of the Central Office administrators in Clayton County called me and asked if I would be willing to interview with the SACS “investigation” committee. I assured him that I would love to interview with the committee. On the day of my scheduled interview, I was called by this same gentleman to inform me that SACS had changed its mind about interviewing me. Mr. Haynes stated to me that when he went before this same committee and reached in his brief case to pull out documents which would buttress the claims which he had made, the chairman of the committee hastened to let him know that he and the committee were not interested.

The Clayton County situation was an open-and-shut case from the very beginning. The “investigation” stuff was a joke. Same thing for DeKalb. What happened in DeKalb is that board members were getting way too independent and couldn’t be called in by a friendly phone call by the politically-connected. Glenn Brock’s offer of his services for a “search” for a new superintendent was rebuffed. Then the school board went out and inexplicably hired a lightweight superintendent from some small town in Ohio. Obviously, some members of the DeKalb School Board knew the connection between political power and money. Political Science 101. Pretty basic. But, sometimes the politically-connected are so arrogant while feasting at swanky places like the Piedmont Driving Club and discussing the billions of dollars associated with public school systems that they seem to forget that the elected members of school boards who may just dine at This Is It! Restaurant also see the money involved. And, guess what, they have the legitimate levers of power, viz., elections at the ballot box. But, ah, those feasting on seared salmon, scallops, and asparagus at the Piedmont Driving Club have SACS.

Yes, this is where SACS comes in. It is a private organization with absolutely no oversight from the State. No accountability whatsoever and scads of conflict-of-interests. Its money comes from the public coffers, from the same source which it “evaluates.” Mark Elgart and SACS have smarmy relationship with the States’s superintendents. They love SACS. SACS acts in a distinct way as their “union.” I have said many times that SACS should more accurately stand for Still Advocating for Cronies and Superintendents (SACS).

Oh, yes, let’s return to Clayton County. The next month after the so-called SACS “report,” I presume that Ms. Davis and Mr. Johnson saw that Mr. Haynes was not one bit intimidated by Mark Elgart and SACS. So, Ms. Davis contacted Eldrin Bell to do an “investigation” about where Mr. Haynes was living. Mind you that this is none of Mr. Bell’s business (by the way, he was slaughtered in this last election by Jeff Turner), but he got the Clayton County Police Department to “investigate” where Mr. Haynes lived. They did a pretty horrible job because they went to his former residence in Morrow and apparently knew nothing about him moving to Conley in a house still in the district. I knew about it and had visited Mr. Haynes at his Conley home. Mr. Haynes had even officially changed his address with the school system and the Registrar’s Office in Clayton County. But, when you are not really looking for the truth, you won’t find it. Despite the Georgia Secretary of State’s Office conducting an extensive investigation of Mr. Haynes’s residence and issuing not one but two different reports stating that it could not find evidence that Mr. Haynes lived outside his voting district, this same foolhardy Ericka Davis led the push in the March 2008 school board meeting to kick Norreese Haynes off the Clayton County School Board. Not all board members voted to kick Mr. Haynes off the school board, but all the remaining eight school board members either stepped down under duress and apparent shame, beginning with Chairperson Ericka Davis, or were removed by the Governor.

The State Law clearly states that an elected official of Georgia cannot be removed without first obtaining “judicial determination.” Mr. Haynes’s lawyer, Preston Haliburton, clearly and eloquently pointed this out in Judge Deborah Benefield’s courtroom, but Judge Benefield apparently did not have the stomach or nerves to hear the case and, quite frankly, would have gone all the way to Hong Kong back to try to find an excuse not to hear the case. She demurred. A real act of judicial cowardice. She was indeed a profile in cowardice.

What did Mark Elgart and SACS do? Ericka Davis, not in conjunction with other school board members but acting alone (which violates SACS’s precious standards), called on the County Commission Chairman, Eldrin Bell, to “investigate” Norreese Haynes’s residence. The office charged with this type of investigation is the Georgia Secretary of State. What about when the Clayton County Board of Education illegally voting Mr. Haynes off the school board? What did Mark Elgart and SACS do about this illegal move? Nothing. The same thing that Mark Eldart and SACS did with the Cobb County Board of Education even admitted to holding 57 illegal school board meetings. Heck, I remember when Mark Elgart and “advisor” Glenn Brock and two State Board Members met illegally behind closed doors with the Clayton County Board of Education. That was a real irony. I presume that it is O. K. to violate the State’s Open Meetings Law if you are connected. Hmm.

I write all of this in some details to simply demonstrate that Mark Elgart and SACS are hypocrites. Several years ago when Crawford Lewis and Beverly Hall were riding high, I came up with my list for The Three Biggest Educational Hypocrites in Georgia. I later abridged this list to include Edmond Heatley of Clayton County. So, my list consisted of Hall, Lewis, Heatley, and Mark Elgart. The first three stepped down or were pushed aside rather disgracefully. I am hoping that the public will finally see the light of the great hypocrisy of SACS and its leader, Mark Elgart. I have offered to debate in a very public forum Mr. Elgart concerning the arbitrary and capricious application of SACS’s so-called “standards.” I have made this offer several times for almost five years. He has not even responded. I will debate him in Jekyll Island (he may be more comfortable at The Jekyll Island Club) or the Piedmont Driving Club (perhaps in the Alston Room), at the 29th Street Gym in Columbus, Georgia, in the Comer Auditorium in Bibb City, Georgia, at the Dairy Lane Barbeque in Sandersville, Georgia, at the Busy Bee Restaurant on Martin Luther King Drive in Atlanta, at Butch’s Chicken House Restaurant in Jonesboro, at the Big Chicken in Marietta (here Glenn Brock won’t have to travel far), or at Paschal’s on Northside Drive. Heck, I would even travel up to Mt. Alpharetta where Zeus Elgart lives. I don’t think that Mark Elgart wants to defend his actions in public. I would have more respect for him if he submitted his actions to a rigorous debate, with a thorough and sifting examination of these so-called “standards.”

Folks, the emperor is naked. SACS is a joke. It is a control mechanism. I prefer to allow the voters to control their politicians at the ballot box. This is how a democracy works. Anything else smacks of a pitiable Gnostic oligarchy. © GTSO, January 14, 2013.

http://www.theteachersadvocate.com

http://www.georgiateachersspeakout.com

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Dunwoody Mom
Short of independent school districts, how do you feel about Nancy Jester’s Portfolio District?

I’m saying that SACS and the State DOE has enabled administrations to do a horrible job. BOE’s are 4th in line for responsibility for what’s going on.

Ernest
I’m with you to some extent. I’ve heard many examples of board members WAY overstepping their bounds.

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Logic said but critical decisions are not meant for the blogs – I praise Ms Jester for being the only one to tell us what is going on!! I’m tired of all these deals going on behind closed doors. Let’s get it out into the public. SACS and the administration won’t listen to her, but I will. Public pressure is the only force that will change things. SACS and School administrations benefit from the status quo.

Who brought these issues to light via her newsletter and blogs? Who is trying to change things via the Portfolio District? Who is risking their job and personal hide by not shutting up? Who is one of the only honest reps to sit on that board in the last 10 years?

Ms Jester lost your vote? Have you lost your mind?

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Somehow (someone spiked my coffee with LSD?) I can picture Orson Welles doing a Citizen Kane like movie on the DCSS school system, accept in this version, instead of Charles Foster Kane saying “Rosebud,” a nameless DeKalb County citizen, representing “everyman” is see muttering “FUBAR”

Of course this being DCSS the movie would come in $25 million over budget…

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Maureen: Are my comments still “awaiting moderation”? Darn. Is the standard fare for me these days? My comments always have to wait to be “moderated”? Ha!

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Here is the deal, folks. This system is a cluster….period. Also, this point is non-debatable. It is a cluster. Something has to be done. and anybody can see this. And lastly, the present hierarchy ia NOT the way to go. There is no cure for this mess under present leadership (my sincere apologies for the blatant misuse of that word.) Leave the present system in place and 10-20 years from now, the unthinkable (though expected) thing will happen: it will get worse.

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I’m not sure if the state taking over Dekalb schools would help Dekalb, but I am pretty certain it would help quite a few other systems who might have the FOG put into them!

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Maureen, why not do a “point-counter point” editorial on the role of SACS with Markie Mark on one side and Dr. Trotter on the other?

Seems the readers responded in a positive manner, when the AJC was finally willing to go after the truth about Beverly Hall; I would imagine it would be the same for SACS, considering their influence.

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To all the contributors to this blog who exclaim and exhault the virtues of local control when the subject matter revolved around the recent charter school admendment, where are is your hue and cry about the dismantling of the virtues of local control while we’re falling over ourselves trying to place the fate of this school system in the hands of an unelected State School board and an unelected private third party accreditation service.

My basic point, if you’re truly for local control then I guess you must suffer the slings and arrows of your elected officials until you can vote them out of office or have good Gov Deal fire them and appoint his own cronies to meet the unanmious voting standard SACS thinks is befitting of a quality local board.

This situation as well as in Clayton County is a complete mess. The operational structure and goverance of public education in GA needs some overall on multiple fronts.

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@Dekalb Inside Out et al — After reading Nancy Jester’s blog posting concerning “The Portfolio District strategy” is interesting how remarkably simular it sounds in practice to the concept of Charter School governance.

I’m just saying, its amazing the traction around an idea when you change the term used to refer to it.

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skipper, no one is denying that in its current state, the school district is a cluster….. My belief is you need to research and understand how it got to be that way. Otherwise changing the Board without changing the ‘behind the scenes influencers’ in merely like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Like Dr. Trotter is suggesting, I also believe there are some ‘money people’ behind some of this though I can’t prove it.

Like Dunwoody Mom, I have Juniors that could be impacted by the district possibly losing accreditation. I’m motivated to work and see this does not happen.

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I think APS is a perfect example of why Deal should not appoint a board. The business community supported Hall and her schemes to the end. And a board appointed from recommendations by the Dekalb County state reps would be even worse than what we have now. Further, if Deal reappointed some (even if there were a logical basis, like those elected in the last two years), it might make matyrs of the others and help their reelection.

For now, keep their feet to the fire, but leave them in place. If they don’t make progress, Deal can re-consider. We have 5 relatively new board members and 2 who barely won their last election, one at-large whose district probably goes away. The other two (Cunningham and Walker) are likely to be in the same district next time when we go down to 7 board members as they live very close. Everyone is up for reelection in 2 years.

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@ DeKalb in/out

IMO, honest to God, I think the DCSS system is broken beyond repair. while I acknowledge there has been some turnover, turnover to what? to who? whose agenda?

there needs to be a major priority change in how the voters cast their votes, and why. otherwise, same poo, different people.

and frankly, I don’t see it happening

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getting on my own soapbox here

for some perspective after reading Dr Trotters stuff.
GPC went millions in debt, was guilty of gross mismanagement and cronyism leading to 100s being laid off or not renewed, and had a president relieved of his responsibilities during the academic year.

and all SACS did was a mild letter. you really think SACS will give a rats butt about DCSS?

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Always follow the money! No doubt some big ego’s and personality conflicts, and fighting over fiefdoms’s also plays a role as well. County education budgets are massive. We are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars often being managed by people without even a rudimentary knowledge of finance, accounting, or budgets. How can you not expect tens of millions of wasteful spending or budget shortfalls. I realize DeKalb’s issues are far more complex than simple budget matters, but certainly that plays a key role since the money is not being properly allocated to get the most educational bang for the buck.

The BOE and superintendents in DeKalb and all around the country are more of a hinderance than a help. They need to hire good principals that are held accountable and give them far more autonomy to run their schools. Head teachers also need more flexibility to run their classes and departments. Until we come closer to this model where the educrats and BOE just get out of the way and let schools do their jobs nothing will change.

Private schools manage to do a far better job without hundreds if not thousands of non-teaching admin staff and a BOE micro-managing every decision. I realize this is because they also can be very selective on what students they choose to admit, but at the same time much can be learned from this model. Public schools can never have the same level of autonomy as private schools due to state and federal mandates and miles of other red tape they must follow, but surely a happy medium could be achieved.

At the end of the day, you have a lot of people that have absolutely no direct or even indirect impact on the education of the children trying to justify their positions and worth. You could probably reorganize the district along the lines of the portfolio model and fire over half of the non-teaching admin type jobs and get far better results. Let teacher’s teach!

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concernedmom30329, you comments are also another reason why I believe citizens have ‘given’ too much perceived power to Board members. My understanding is that the primary role of the Board chari is to serve as the spokesperson for the collective Board and preside over meetings. They are democratically elected by other Board members not citizens. This means their vote is equal with the other Board members. There is also a policy that spells out the duties of a Board chair. It is Policy BBA and can be found at:

https://eboard.eboardsolutions.com/epolicy/policy.aspx?PC=BBA&Sch=4054&S=4054&RevNo=1.12&C=B&Z=P

I’ll admit to having concerns regarding how Nancy Jester is communicating her views regarding SACs and the Board. While I agree there will be disagreements between 9 people on the direction of the school district, how you handle those disagreements reflects on the perceptions the public forms about your interactions. Again this goes back to making tough decisions. Some have brought up that Nancy did not vote to hire Dr. Atkinson. Does that mean she should not work with her because of that? To be clear, I an not accusing Nancy of not being a team player but some seem to suggest that because Nancy did not vote for Dr. Atkinson, she is justified in appealing to her constituents on how she would handle things. I personally see this as a slippery slope.

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It is a crying shame that so many of you write from only your Georgia Public School system experience. Top States in Eductation are that way for one major reason, they have true local control. They are constisted primarily of one high school ( max. Two high school large) school districts, with their feeder schools. The 5 or so Principals report directly to Supterintendent as does the head of the buses, Maintenance, The cafeteria’s, the HR, The Finance, etc… There are virtually no middle management positions. These school systems share specialized schools such as Votech with another small school district. Busing costs go way down, since you aren’t bussing kids across an entire county. In fact you can cut down on the number of bus runs, you can have Middle and High School Students bused at the same times on the same runs. In stead of running 3 r

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DeKalb Inside Out, can you be more specific regarding a policy you believe Dr. Atkinson is not following? Please bear in mind that I see policies as guidelines with some ‘wiggle room”. By that I mean if a policy indicates a deliverable has to be provided by a certain day and a superintendent believes they cannot provide it, they request an extension from the Board. Assuming the request comes with supporting documentation, most Boards would grant they extension. There should be a documentation trail associated with this.

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bu2 hit the nail on the head:

“The issues are the priorities. Bowen and Walker have emphasized the employment aspect of adults over the children. They seem to have viewed the administrative employees as who they were supposed to represent.”

No one with any power (this excludes Nancy Jester) is advocating for taxpayers, parents, teachers, or students.

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DeKalb Inside Out, thanks for providing! Without question, this seems like a clear case of not following policy. Given Board members were told the internal systems would be challenged to provide this information despite some of it being provided to the state, I’d want to know Dr. Atkinson’s position. There obviously is conflict between what was said and what is being provided.

I still go back to my statement earlier, is it appropriate for a boss to throw their employee under a blog bus? You can rightly say that they Board was thrown under a bus by SACs (and ultimately Dr. Atkinson) from the report write-up but two wrongs don’t make a right.

In last weeks’ AJC, there was a story about the coroner in Savannah and allegations he misappropriated over $140,000. The story indicated that he quietly hoped to address the finding of an audit by paying the money back and had begun doing so. My only point in bringing this up is that I’ve witnessed giving a person a chance to rectify something they’ve done wrong quietly thus saving possible public embarrassment. The coroner resigned when this became public.

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I actually argue that having a board of short-term appointed people might be the best thing to happen to DeKalb yet. They know they will most likely be short-term with the election in 2015, they are not beholden to voters for their jobs, and they are under a massive spotlight.

While it is POSSIBLE there will be political appointments, it is a GUARANTEE that our current board will never, ever, ever, ever come together and do the right thing. What innovative, forward-thinking, productive ideas have come out of anyone but Nancy Jester? Even if you don’t like NJ, you have to at least concede that she is the only one trying to think out of the box and providing taxpayers with information to go out and research.

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I like the fact that we would have a temporary, fix-it board with no obligations to the voters and under the understanding that they are most likely temporary.

@bu2, what 5 new players? If you think about them in terms of the typical 7-2, 6-3 vote, nothing has changed. Walker, Cunningham, Edler, Copelin-Woods, and Johnson are going to vote together. Orson will most likely flip-flop depending on the issue. McMahan will stick with Jester. So, really, nothing has changed. The most active, involved areas keep churning through board members, and the other areas, for reasons unknown, keep putting back in the same players. Nothing has or will change with the same group. Our kids do not have time for us to keep waiting for the next election.

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I agree very strongly with The Deal that two years is an interminably long time when you are waiting/hoping for improvement from this board. Every year teacher morale gets lower and more homeowners dispair and leave the county. SACS put the board on advisement TWO YEARS ago and judging by their most recent pronouncement, NOTHING HAS IMPROVED. Yet SACS gives them another year to get their act together. Does anyone really think that Eugene “we’ve done nothing egregious” Walker or anyone else selected by this board is going to produce better governance for Dekalb Schools?

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I think Orson and McMahan will be vastly more effective than Womack and McChesney, who with respect to board matters, came across rather curmudgeonly. I think they will have better communications with the other 8 than Jester. Johnson remains to be seen. Elder isn’t set in her ways. There are 5 new personalities, 2 that have been there 2 years, 3 that have been there 2 weeks. Walker and Cunningham usually seem to be on the same page, but Woods has her own interests. Bowen, who usually aligned with Walker & Cunningham, is gone. Womack, who was apparently responsbile for some of the interfering in school affairs comments is gone. Orson and McMahan have backgrounds that should make them more financially aware than the board, on average, has been. Elder and Jester have financial backgrounds.

So maybe they all get along better. When you are butting heads, there’s no persuasion going on. They should have more financial sense. So maybe they discuss the important issues instead of peripheral ones and communicate with each other instead of the press or blogs.

In any event, I trust the voters, even though there have been some questionable choices, more than TPTB here in Georgia.

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I missed something during the meeting, did they vote on the Chair and co-chair?

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Copied and pasted from the DeKalb County School Watch blog:
Again, contact members of the State Board of Education (click here). If you would like to provide a statement for the State Board to consider, you can email it to either Justin Pauly at jpauly@gadoe.org or Brenda Turner at brturner@doe.k12.ga.us.

If you would like to email the entire state board, here are their addresses as a group for you to copy and paste:

lzechmann@gmail.com, eragsdale2@doe.k12.ga.us, hrice@doe.k12.ga.us, disrael@doe.k12.ga.us, kmason@doe.k12.ga.us, bahampton@doe.k12.ga.us, mroyal@doe.k12.ga.us, wbarrs@doe.k12.ga.us, lwinter@doe.k12.ga.us, bburdette@doe.k12.ga.us, glewis@doe.k12.ga.us, arice@doe.k12.ga.us, mmurray@doe.k12.ga.us, state.superintendent@doe.k12.ga.us

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Why is Ms. Tyson still working for the system. Has she not done enough damage, along with the very person who recommended her for that job…… Turk reported to her. Tyson had to know budgets were not being followed. 49 million over budget for two years of Central Office mismanagement, that is no rounding error. We must cleanse the Palace of the past, the damage is almost to the point it can not be fixed. Has anything really changed since Atkinson came on board….

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@the Deal
Do you have a quote? I thought no names were mentioned in the report.

It said some of the new members (without mentioning names) were visiting the schools in their districts. I actually consider that a positive if it involved listening and learning as opposed to telling.

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Some of the things SACS complained about were asking for reports that took time to put together. That’s not real bad. Especially when they are important reports for making decisions (and as I recall they seemed to be pretty basic requests that its incomprehensible the system couldn’t generate-HR reports, significant purchases-and I’m guessing Nancy Jester was probably one of those requesting) All it takes is one complaint. A lot of it reads like an administration that didn’t want any oversight and so is “telling” on the board. That’s VERY disturbing in a district that just had the Lewis scandals and can’t produce budgets or follow them.

As for things about Orson on the DSW2 website, everything gets exaggerated and distorted. Maybe there’s something across the line there, but if it comes interpretations of e-mails at DSW2, I’m very skeptical.

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Atkinson is a problem — we can all agree on that. If she is removed, do you think the current board will do a better job of hiring someone?

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A board could be forced to hire a specific Superintendent and/or forced to adopt the Portfolio District like they did at APS. DCSD could have a new Superintendent by the end of January.

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SACS is featured in The Wall Street Journal
The Rise of the Accreditor as Big Man on Campus

Accreditors are supposed to protect students and taxpayers by ensuring that federal aid flows only to schools with “educational quality.” But accreditors increasingly interfere in institutional decision-making and use their bully authority to tie the hands of colleges and universities.

For decades, these accreditors have effectively guarded the status quo, focusing on process and resources rather than on educational excellence.

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@DIO

That was a part of the SACS report that I didn’t agree with. SACS seemed to take offense that the board was bothering the administration to report on these expenses that were just under the limit requiring board approval. If the administration “can’t” produce this, that would make me very suspicious that they were making questionable purchases. Unless they are on a paper and pencil system, any competent accountant could produce a list containing most of the larger items very quickly. And its hard to imagine a modern system that couldn’t produce the data requested, only requiring some manual formatting.

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I.m a african american. It’s sad to say i perfer all white or another culture race. To take over the board for dekalb county and also all schools in dekalb, they get these positions and act a fool. i thought i would never say this but it would be better.:(( I perfer to work with white people or a alien races beside my own at work or school. Its sad to say i stay in stone mtn. NO need to say more.

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