Analysis: Charter schools kick out far more problem students, but what is the alternative?
Many educators on this blog complain that charter schools enjoy a critical edge over their non-charter counterparts: They have far more freedom to kick out problem students.
The Washington Post decided to test that claim and found that the District of Columbia’s public charter schools expel students at a far higher rate than the city’s traditional public schools. Those problem kids often return to the traditional public school down the street, which has far greater pressure to keep all students.
I am not sure what the answer is here — should charter schools face more hurdles before they expel students or should traditional public schools face fewer? Should we hold public schools to a higher bar for the expulsion of younger students? And where should be put those students once they are expelled? Are alternative programs effective?
The Post investigation is lengthy, and I would recommend that you read the entire piece before commenting here.
D.C. charter schools expelled 676 students in the past three years, while the city’s traditional public schools expelled 24, according to a Washington Post review of school data. During the 2011-12 school year, when charters enrolled 41 percent of the city’s students, they removed 227 children for discipline violations and had an expulsion rate of 72 per 10,000 students; the District school system removed three and had an expulsion rate of less than 1 per 10,000 students.
The discrepancy underscores the freedom that charters — publicly funded schools that operate independently of the traditional school system — have from school system policies. That autonomy defines the charter movement and gives its schools considerable latitude to decide what student behavior they will — and won’t — tolerate.
Parents and activists say some charters expel excessively and with little oversight, shedding disruptive students who then end up enrolling mid-year in the traditional school system, which is legally bound to take them.
The D.C. school system can compel students to transfer from one school to another. But unlike charters, the school system cannot truly expel anyone because of its mandate to serve all students. “Expelled” students are sent to an alternative middle school or high school for one year. The school system does not expel elementary students, officials said.
Many charter schools — 60 out of 97 campuses — did not expel students in 2011-12. That same school year, seven expelled at least 10 students.
YouthBuild, a school that targets high school dropouts and students older than 16, expelled 30 that year, nearly one-third of its enrollment. Friendship’s Collegiate Academy expelled 56 students, or 5 percent of its student body.
Charter advocates deny that the schools are trying to push out challenging students. They point out that D.C. charters enroll a higher proportion of poor children than the traditional public schools and that poor children often come to class with greater needs than their middle-class peers. Charters are open to all students across the city, with admission by lottery if there is more demand than space available.
“My goal is zero” expulsions, said Shawn Hardnett, an administrator for Friendship Public Charter School, which last year expelled 70 students across its six campuses, which are located in some of the city’s neediest neighborhoods. “At the same time, I have to be reasonable and wise about the fact that there are kids who are coming to our schools with behaviors that are very simply unacceptable and unsafe,” Hardnett said.
The District’s Office of the State Superintendent of Education in August proposed rules that would govern discipline policies at all public schools, including charters. They called for minimizing suspension and expulsion of children 13 and younger and outlined due process rights for students. Charter leaders mounted a vigorous opposition, saying the federal law that established D.C. charters frees them from such local mandates.
Adele Fabrikant, deputy chief in the school system’s office of youth engagement, said it sometimes appears as if the system serves as a safety net for students who can’t make it elsewhere. “In some ways, it feels like we will always have to have a set of district schools, regardless of how successful charters are, because charters will always expel their students,” Fabrikant said. “There will have to be some network of schools that will serve those students.”
Fabrikant also commented on why the school system does not expel children from elementary schools. “Research has shown that that kind of disciplinary response for children who are that young is actually ineffective,” Fabrikant said. “It doesn’t work to teach students to learn the valuable lessons that they can learn.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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133 comments Add your comment
reality check
January 6th, 2013
7:51 pm
The U.S. is unique in its “one size fits all approach to education. Most of the rest of the civilized world treats children with better abilities differently than those who are not as gifted. They get put into tracks where they are better able to learn without being helde back by those who can’t or won’t cut it. That is the major reason the U.S. has fallen behind the rest of the civilized world in testing.
In Switzerland, for example, the top 15% are put into pre management/professional programs and others are put into programs that are more vocational oriented. In some countries it is even more extreme where the top 1% are given more support.
In this country gifted learners receive a smaller portion of the resources than any other segment and behavior problems get more than anybody. Segmentation into more ability appropriate programs would be a good first step and as far as I am concerned spend more on the ones who will be productive.
bootney farnsworth
January 6th, 2013
8:03 pm
and how do you pre-determine who is gonna be successful?
gender?
race?
religion?
I prefer our system of giving everybody an equal shot, and letting them do what they can with it.
Atlanta Heights Charter School
January 6th, 2013
8:05 pm
I have not seen this to be true. I taught at Atlanta Heights Charter school, who is currently applying to get their charter renewed, and they RARELY kicked out kids… Each kid is a price tag. Even as a male teacher, I had a young man, 4th grade, literally swing at me and try to hit me. The school didn’t even suspend him, but he was in my room the next day. Rarely do they kick kids out, no matter HOW bad they are… and we had APS kids who were kicked out of their schools… it was really bad.
bootney farnsworth
January 6th, 2013
8:08 pm
lets see here…segmentation…..OK
-blacks get sent to sports academies
-jews into finance and entertainment
-asians into the sciences
-latinos into landscaping and construction
I guess whites can go into fast food management
see how stupid that is?
mountain man
January 6th, 2013
8:11 pm
“So, mtn. man, let’s have a charter that specifically caters to the poorly behaved. Let’s keep the “good” kids in regular school, and send the troublemakers to a special school where their needs (preparation for life, or preparation for incarceration) can be met. Small classes, strict discipline, extensive counseling, evaluation, medication if needed, parental education”
That is supposed to be already happening – ecept they aren’t charter schools, they are called “alternative ” schools. The district is supposed to provide these and send the discipline problems there. They just need to DO IT!
mountain man
January 6th, 2013
8:16 pm
“mountain man,
If charter schools don’t have to educate all comers, why should they be funded at the same levels as traditional public schools? I guess you’re good with two levels of public schools.”
For your information, STATE charters are funded at much less than “traditional” schools, since the local school keeps all LOCAL taxes (those taxes don’t follow the student to the charter).
We would NOT NEED two levels of schools if “traditional” schools would effectively address its problems. But since they have not (they have gotten worse over the past 40 years), then, yes, I am all for having a separate system for the parents who CARE.
RAMZAD
January 6th, 2013
8:24 pm
The problem is not suspensions per se. It is the student’s perception of suspension and the consequent reality after suspension. It would not matter to me is I got suspended and then get to go back to another school that is supposed to teach me the same things.
What would make a difference is that the replacement for suspension be a hard core boot-camp pseudo prison kind of alternative school, where social behaviorists and law enforcement specialists become the new normal. You learn math under the yoke of knowing that if you cant behave your next stop is a jail cell.
Atlanta mom
January 6th, 2013
9:27 pm
No mountain man , the vast majority of charter schools are fully funded. Only the schools that can only get charter status from the state ( and that’s new this coming year) will not be “fully funded”. They will only be funded at twice the normal state funding.
old school doc
January 6th, 2013
9:40 pm
Catlady is my hero!
If GA schools really want to be innovative, why not address the social-behavioral issues of (sadly) many of our students and…
open alternative “academies” with intensive interventions. Start at the elementary age, always with the goal of re -introducing the child to the “traditional” school once they shape up.
Grob Hahn
January 6th, 2013
9:47 pm
Charter schools are educational experiments. They are not designed to solve discipline issues. Sure that is stacking the deck, but every district needs to have at least 1 school where education can be kept controlled.
Until the obvious problem is answered, charter schools provide valuable relief from the obvious problem until the regular schools are ready to admit it.
Grobbbbbbbbbbb
JD
January 6th, 2013
10:17 pm
In many of the posts above, parents have been blamed for their children’s bad behavior, lack of academic knowledge at the kindergarten/elementary school level, etc. Some of the posts indicate a belief that the children could be turned into civilized, responsible, educated citizens if they were not raised in circumstances that foster failure and violence. What if traditional public schools had safe, stable, well-run dormitories available for such students?
Let’s not debate the cost of providing dormitories right now, nor the legal obstacles involved in dealing with the children’s parents. I just want to know whether people believe that a dormitory option would turn a lot of kids’ lives around and make it likelier that they will rise above their families’ problems.
Personal responsibility
January 6th, 2013
10:30 pm
Just why should anyone be entitled to an education regardless of their behavior or their interest in learning? The minute we created a government run system that entitled everyone to an “education” regardless of their means, their interest, the involvement of their parents, etc. we doomed our society and these schools to failure.
Parents don’t care because they don’t have to. PERIOD. You only get personal responsibility when you demand it. Put the responsibility for education back in the hands and pocketbooks of the parents where it belongs and get everyone else in society off the hook for having to pick up for the responsibilities of others. End government education once and for all and stop penalizing the next generation with these horrible prisons.
janet
January 6th, 2013
10:36 pm
Catlady is dead on and Active in Cherokee is also correct. If expelled from a charter school, those students should **NOT** be sent to a traditional public. They should be automatically sent to the alternative school.
I, personally, am fine with the “pipeline to prison” scenario…. (errr I mean alternative schools). Is it ideal…NO. But there is no other solution that doesn’t involve hurting the kids who want to learn. It all comes down to parenting. It’s not the school that is preparing them for prison, it’s the PARENTS.
I do think that serious discipline needs to be brought back into the schools (even spanking GASP). Better discipline will bring inline the kids who are not necessarily “problem kids” just a little too ornery. I think we should let the kids who want to learn, learn. Those who don’t… dump them in alternative schools. I don’t see anything wrong with it. Someone pointed out that it will likely be mostly minority and come under fire. But so be it. If those parents want their kids to get an education, then they need to step up and BE PARENTS and instill some discipline and basic human civility in their offspring. Period.
There is always going to be a segment of our population that is poor and uneducated. I’m okay with that. I know that sounds harsh, but if we accept that fact, and move on, and educate the ones who wanted to be educated, we will be far better off as a society. If we’re lucky, some of the “problem kids” will grow up and realize the error of their ways and pursue educational opportunities as adults. But we have to stop trying to FORCE education on people who simply do not want it or see value in it. Not because it hurts them, but because it’s hurts the other 20 kids who desprately want to be educated and employable. WHY IS IT OKAY TO FAIL THOSE KIDS? But we’re bending over backwards trying to educate people who do not want an education. I don’t get it at all.
Bottom line… We have to pull our heads out of our politically correct butts and realize that not every child born will get a proper education. This could be for a myriad of reasons, but mostly because their own parents refuse to do their job as parents. We should change our whole focus to educating the ones who want to be educated.
Dr. Monica Henson
January 6th, 2013
10:51 pm
Coming to the discussion a little late, but here’s some perspective from someone who has worked in both the charter & the district worlds. Both types of schools are public schools and therefore required by law to provide due process to students before removing them. It is not true that a charter school can legally remove a student because the student or parent didn’t “follow the charter,” such as completing parent volunteer hour “requirements.” Such an expulsion, if brought before an administrative law judge, wouldn’t pass the due process requirement. I’m not saying that no charter school does it–I’m pointing out that if they do, they are doing it illegally. I’m not aware of any Georgia court cases of families suing charter schools for illegally expelling their children.
Neither is it true that “the law allows” charters more freedom in expelling students. Due process is due process, regardless of whether the expelling organization is chartered or district. Every state requires that school districts (and independent charters are also their own school districts, by law) create and publish a code of conduct, outlining the circumstances under which a student may be expelled. For example, in Georgia, the law (O.G.C.A. § 20-2-735) requires that all local boards of education adopt a student code of conduct including standards of student behavior and disciplinary action for students who violate the code of conduct. “Local boards of education” includes independent charter school boards. Each of those charter boards’ codes must be approved by the charter authorizer, and ultimately by the State Board of Education. This is the same in every state that has charter schools. If a charter school has a stricter policy on expulsion than a district school, it is because the district’s BOE has established a stricter policy, not because state law gives charter schools special dispensation in expelling students.
For instance, School District A might establish a zero-tolerance policy on fighting and expel students who violate this code. School District B does not have a zero-tolerance policy on fighting. This is not because the law is forcing SD A to establish such a policy. What the law states, in terms of due process, is that if SD A establishes such a policy, then SD A is required to spell it out clearly in writing in advance, and hold a hearing, with evidence presented, upon violation of it before SD A can enforce it and remove a student from its rolls.
It is also not true that the public school district is required by law to take expelled charter students, at least at the secondary level. No public school (district or charter) is required to enroll any student who has been previously expelled by another public school (district or charter). It is completely at the discretion of the local BOE or charter school board to decide whether to accept an enrollment application by a student who was expelled elsewhere. I am not 100% sure that this is the case at the elementary level because I have never dealt in any state with an elementary school expulsion.
Bob Rock
January 6th, 2013
11:18 pm
@ Atlanta mom – I know you said the “vast majority” are fully funded. Isn’t that dependent on the system that grants and oversees the charter? Fulton County does not fully fund their charters – they do not provide any monies for the actual school facility and grounds. I’m curious what percentage of charter schools throughout the US are fully funded?
Bob Rock
January 6th, 2013
11:24 pm
I’m not sure this has been covered already but isn’t it possible that charter schools might have a higher percentage of “problem students”? They may get enrolled do to the fact that parents may be thinking a charter school might help their child more so than a traditional school?
Public HS Teacher
January 7th, 2013
12:20 am
@mountain man and others…..
So let me understand – charter schools can “kick out” kids if they do something wrong. But, public schools cannot.
I guess you also plan to measure charter schools the same as public schools?
How can you measure this? When one ‘type’ of school can easily get rid of student(s) and another cannot – the playing field is simply not even!
Is your thought to turn public schools into some type of “second level” of education? A place where the undesirables end up? If so, then just plainly state this!
Otherwise, the charter schools will obviously be able to ‘kick out’ students that may not even perform academically as well (they are not up to our charter standard). So of course any standardized test scores will be skewed in any sort of comparison.
Am I the only one that sees this?
Public HS Teacher
January 7th, 2013
12:25 am
The State of Georgia – and its idiot republican conservative ideology – has ruined education for many generations to come. This will clearly show up in the annual testing overall for ALL of Georgia students.
I would be 100% of my paycheck that when this happens, there will be some sort of stupid excuse to explain away this trend. The truth is that this ‘charter school’ experiment has failed. But of course, no one will ever admit it.
In the meantime, I am moving to a sane State far away from Georgia. I am taking my teaching skills (3rd highest EOCT scores in the State, an AP score average of 4.0, etc.) with me. I feel very sad for Georgia’s youth – this mess is not their fault and yet they will feel the pain.
The chater school companys will laugh all of the the way to the bank with YOUR State tax money while your children suffer.
Pity.
Private Citizen
January 7th, 2013
12:46 am
janet, you speak the language of plantation. There is always going to be a segment of our population that is poor and uneducated. I’m okay with that. I know that sounds harsh, but if we accept that fact, and move on, and educate the ones who wanted to be educated, we will be far better off as a society.
I guess your “we” does not include the people you use as an object to elevate yourself. The poor who are kept poor will not be better off. I wonder, will you “allow” them a biscuit? Perhaps a slice of cake?
19-year-old Socialist takes seat on Red Bank Regional’s Board of Education http://blog.nj.com/monmouth_impact/print.html?entry=/2013/01/19-year-old_socialist_takes_seat_on_red_bank_regionals_board_of_education.html
Johnny
January 7th, 2013
2:40 am
Okay, so I am retired from teaching and administration, and here comes not a bias but truths. I save the CHARTER SCHOOL point for last.
-I saw MOST problem kids (fights, arguments, low grades) by a big majority came from one parent homes OR a ‘where did Dad go?’ home.
-Problem kids in learning skills were problem kids in deportment.
-Most kids who were big problems in first year of middle school will be big problems in high school and will not graduate.
-The best program for minority kids is a good intermural and intramural athletic program, and for non-athletes adequate e/c activities-band, etc.
-Segregation of boys and girls in schools works.
-Uniforms work wonders.
-Now, will charter schools WORK? Sorry-should require screening.
patrick crabtree
January 7th, 2013
5:47 am
Chater schools are popular simply because they can “kick” students out. They have more discipline in them, but that is not a reason to support them. One, there is NO way to inforce a parental contract. The constitution guarantees FREE public education and signing a contract is tantamount to “costing” of parents and is no longer free. Charters just have not been challenged in court. This has lost before. It is a matter of time. Two, children have rights. Three, teachers and school officials do not even though according to the constitution we are ‘loco en parentis.’
mountain man
January 7th, 2013
6:35 am
“So let me understand – charter schools can “kick out” kids if they do something wrong. But, public schools cannot.”
no, apparently you do not understand. Traditional schools (both are public) have the same ability to kick out kids if they do something wrong. They just choose not to. Charters apparently are choosing to kick out kids more. I imply that they are more serious about discipline, since they understand that a lack of discipline seriously undermines the performance of the school.
If only traditional public schools understood that (or do they understand and just have no cojones?).
mountain man
January 7th, 2013
6:40 am
ATL Mom – yes the majority of the BOE-approved charters are fully funded, but what percentage of those are “conversion” charters, in other words, just traditional schools wearing the name of charter only. If the traditional school wasn’t enforcing discipline, what makes you think it will after it becomes a conversion charter? I am talking about REAL charter schools – these are the ones that the BOEs would not approve because they realized that they had a good chance of exposing what was wrong with traditional schools.
Beverly Fraud
January 7th, 2013
7:00 am
@Patrick why won’t your organization, and GAE as a whole, uses your voice to call the GSSA to account for continuing to honor Beverly Hall?
You know first hand Patrick, of careers that were destroyed and the collateral damage done to children as a result of what happened in APS. Why isn’t AAE and GAE outraged that this is still being honored by GSSA?
NFparent
January 7th, 2013
8:51 am
Charter schools hand pick students by passing over kids with learning/physical disabilities and any other characteristic presenting a challenge. This story just tells me they aren’t even effective at implementing their most prevalent, intended and disgusting feature.
reality check
January 7th, 2013
8:57 am
Bootney, IQ testing has been around a long time and it works. That is why they still do it, and the schools do use the information. The issue is that in this country there is a much larger amount spent on students of lesser intellectual ability than those who are gifted. And troublemakers are given too many chances to the detriment of those who are trying to make something of themselves.
Your racist comments are inappropriate.
LD
January 7th, 2013
11:00 am
Even WITH involved parents CHOOSING the charter school, the charter school having more flexibilities in discipline codes and ability to remove students, students in charter schools consistently under-perform their traditional school peers! Learning is taking place in the public schools – and I’d argue at a faster pace and higher level than when we were enrolled (for example, how many AP classes 1) did you high school offer, 2) how many did you take, and 3) what grade could you first TAKE an AP class?). Are there problem children in our society? Yes. Is shuffling a child between schools without first determining the root cause of the child’s issues going to help anyone? No.
HS Public Teacher
January 7th, 2013
11:21 am
@mountain man –
You are wrong.
Public schools cannot really ‘kick out’ any student. There is a little thing called federal and state law that requires that we give ALL students an education. The law does not say “unless the kid is a troublemaker.”
So, when a charter school ‘kicks out’ a kid, that kid goes to the public school by law.
Where does the kid go if a public school ‘kicks out’ a kid? Well, in large school systems, there may be an Alternative School that the kid can attend. However, this type of approach cost big money and smaller school systems cannot afford it.
Otherwise, the public school is left holding the bag trying to provide a ‘free and adequate’ education to this troublemaker.
Maybe you would like to champion changing the law?
janet
January 7th, 2013
12:11 pm
@private citizen — call it what you want — it is reality. I promise you, I am not “anti-poor” and do not elevate myself on the backs of anyone. But I am pro self movtivation. I grew up in the Applachian belt and am the daughter of a coal miner. My grandparents never made it out of middle school. Neither one of my parents graduated from high school. I faired better, and got to attend college, I but struggled to compete. I expect with each passing generation that life should improve. I pray my children are more educated and do better financially than my husband (who did not attend college) and I were able to do. I believe, regardless of your age, race, sex, sexual orientation, or religion… if you WANT to learn (or have the proverbial slice of cake), you should be given the opportunity… and of course be willing to work for it. If not, quick wasting space in the classrooms. Sorry if that doesn’t sync with your socialist ideals.
archie
January 7th, 2013
12:37 pm
@Bootney: Don’t forget the awful (shudder!) possibility that the school might be designated a “persistently dangerous school” and students would be allowed to transfer out of there. Thats another motivation for administrators to “sweep it under the rug.”
Dr. Monica Henson
January 7th, 2013
10:23 pm
NFparent posted, “Charter schools hand pick students by passing over kids with learning/physical disabilities and any other characteristic presenting a challenge. This story just tells me they aren’t even effective at implementing their most prevalent, intended and disgusting feature.”
My charter school has more than 70% low-income students, more than 60% minority students, and closing in on 20% special education students. All of these demographics are substantially higher than the state average for high schools. We aggressively recruit dropouts to come back and finish their diplomas–those kids carry almost double the risk that they’ll drop out again.
Your description of charter schools comes nowhere close to describing my school’s reality.
Dr. Monica Henson
January 7th, 2013
10:34 pm
HS Public Teacher, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.
1. “Public schools cannot really ‘kick out’ any student. There is a little thing called federal and state law that requires that we give ALL students an education. The law does not say ‘unless the kid is a troublemaker.’”
Actually, YES, that is exactly what the law says. Expulsion is the permanent removal of a student from the public school district, with the provision that no other public school district will be required to enroll that student. Because this is such a dire consequence, due process must be provided to ensure that these cases are few and far between. All students are entitled to a free & appropriate public education, but they can forfeit their entitlement if they persist in egregious violation of the district’s code of conduct.
2. “So, when a charter school ‘kicks out’ a kid, that kid goes to the public school by law.”
The law provides that no public school (whether district or charter) is required to enroll a student who has previously been expelled from another public school (district or charter) within that same state. If a student voluntarily withdraws from a charter school, then the local district where the student lives is obligated by law to enroll him or her. BIG difference.
3. “Where does the kid go if a public school ‘kicks out’ a kid?”
The kid can attempt to enroll in another public school district, in a charter school in a private school, or be homeschooled. If old enough, the student can take the GED test or go to work. In reality, many of them drift, begin committing crimes to earn money, get pregnant, and otherwise become drains on society.
4. “Well, in large school systems, there may be an Alternative School that the kid can attend.”
Wrong again. An expelled student cannot attend the alternative school in the system s/he got kicked out of. Alternative school is usually a punitive placement for students who repeatedly violate the code of conduct of the regular school they were in, but who haven’t been expelled yet. It’s a way station, if you will, on the road to expulsion, or back to the regular school if the student’s behavior improves at the alternative school.
4. “However, this type of approach cost big money and smaller school systems cannot afford it.”
Many small systems band together in consortiums and bus kids to a centrally located alternative school program.
Ole Guy
January 8th, 2013
4:42 pm
Many of my past comments, regarding the issue of control over student behavior, have been met with apparent indignation bordering on scorn. Problems of this nature have been met with calls for…more education…BS…that’s capital BEE, capital EES.
It is no mystery that today’s youth, much unlike youth of earlier generations, knows absolutely no fear; no earthly concept of consequence for ones’ actions and behavior. With far too much time and resources spent…wasted on issues of self esteem and psuedo feel-good objectives, a generation has grown into a society “ruled”, if you will, by total anarchy…a complete and utter disregard for anything resembling social decorum. Evidence the rise of juvenile crime being brought forth in the adult court systems, not to mention the younger ages at which many of these “anti-social behaviors” are commited. Note, to, that these kids are kids for a very short period of time; the adult community has probably seen a rise in crime, the natures of which far surpass what which may have been in existence a mere decade or so ago.
The ONLY way to instill a sense of fear…that’s FEAR…within youth is by way of DEFINITE; GUARANTEED pain, both physical and psychological. For far too long, you people have been treating kids as though they were porcelean gods, ready to shatter at the slighest hint of rough handling. Consequently, we are seeing a gen of greately diminished viability. Evidence the rise in ineligibilities for military service (let’s face it, folks. As much as I have devoted my life to National Defense, I know…as well as anyone who’s served at all, that standards…mental, physical, and, unfortunately, moral…requirements for entry into the military are simply not that demanding, yet so many youth simply cannot meet those minimum requirements…EVEN THOUGH, unlike those who were drafted during the 60’s, these kids WANT to join, if only to secure a job).
Alternative, you ask…yes indeed! Bring back the paddle; NO MORE self esteem crap; NO MORE give-away grades (during my short tenure in the classroom, I saw far too much of this _ hit). Let’s start getting tough on these kids; stop talking about tough love and other psuedo-psycho approaches to behavior control. GDit, stop being afraid of these kids…