Analysis: Charter schools kick out far more problem students, but what is the alternative?
Many educators on this blog complain that charter schools enjoy a critical edge over their non-charter counterparts: They have far more freedom to kick out problem students.
The Washington Post decided to test that claim and found that the District of Columbia’s public charter schools expel students at a far higher rate than the city’s traditional public schools. Those problem kids often return to the traditional public school down the street, which has far greater pressure to keep all students.
I am not sure what the answer is here — should charter schools face more hurdles before they expel students or should traditional public schools face fewer? Should we hold public schools to a higher bar for the expulsion of younger students? And where should be put those students once they are expelled? Are alternative programs effective?
The Post investigation is lengthy, and I would recommend that you read the entire piece before commenting here.
D.C. charter schools expelled 676 students in the past three years, while the city’s traditional public schools expelled 24, according to a Washington Post review of school data. During the 2011-12 school year, when charters enrolled 41 percent of the city’s students, they removed 227 children for discipline violations and had an expulsion rate of 72 per 10,000 students; the District school system removed three and had an expulsion rate of less than 1 per 10,000 students.
The discrepancy underscores the freedom that charters — publicly funded schools that operate independently of the traditional school system — have from school system policies. That autonomy defines the charter movement and gives its schools considerable latitude to decide what student behavior they will — and won’t — tolerate.
Parents and activists say some charters expel excessively and with little oversight, shedding disruptive students who then end up enrolling mid-year in the traditional school system, which is legally bound to take them.
The D.C. school system can compel students to transfer from one school to another. But unlike charters, the school system cannot truly expel anyone because of its mandate to serve all students. “Expelled” students are sent to an alternative middle school or high school for one year. The school system does not expel elementary students, officials said.
Many charter schools — 60 out of 97 campuses — did not expel students in 2011-12. That same school year, seven expelled at least 10 students.
YouthBuild, a school that targets high school dropouts and students older than 16, expelled 30 that year, nearly one-third of its enrollment. Friendship’s Collegiate Academy expelled 56 students, or 5 percent of its student body.
Charter advocates deny that the schools are trying to push out challenging students. They point out that D.C. charters enroll a higher proportion of poor children than the traditional public schools and that poor children often come to class with greater needs than their middle-class peers. Charters are open to all students across the city, with admission by lottery if there is more demand than space available.
“My goal is zero” expulsions, said Shawn Hardnett, an administrator for Friendship Public Charter School, which last year expelled 70 students across its six campuses, which are located in some of the city’s neediest neighborhoods. “At the same time, I have to be reasonable and wise about the fact that there are kids who are coming to our schools with behaviors that are very simply unacceptable and unsafe,” Hardnett said.
The District’s Office of the State Superintendent of Education in August proposed rules that would govern discipline policies at all public schools, including charters. They called for minimizing suspension and expulsion of children 13 and younger and outlined due process rights for students. Charter leaders mounted a vigorous opposition, saying the federal law that established D.C. charters frees them from such local mandates.
Adele Fabrikant, deputy chief in the school system’s office of youth engagement, said it sometimes appears as if the system serves as a safety net for students who can’t make it elsewhere. “In some ways, it feels like we will always have to have a set of district schools, regardless of how successful charters are, because charters will always expel their students,” Fabrikant said. “There will have to be some network of schools that will serve those students.”
Fabrikant also commented on why the school system does not expel children from elementary schools. “Research has shown that that kind of disciplinary response for children who are that young is actually ineffective,” Fabrikant said. “It doesn’t work to teach students to learn the valuable lessons that they can learn.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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133 comments Add your comment
teacherwantingachange
January 6th, 2013
2:31 pm
Unlike Pride and Joy, I don’t think the disparity in referrals has to do with race or culture. But I have wondered if the number of students is a factor. The majority of Dekalb’s and APS’s students are African American, so wouldn’t the majority of suspended students also be African American?
This high school teacher believes most students want to learn and can behave but that public school systems like Dekalb have no ability or no interest in helping students realize their potentials. Look at the “successful” high schools in Dekalb (if success is measured by the EOCT, AP, and SAT scores the superintendent touts) and you’ll find a type of charter school within the schools. There are the classes where students generally come to class on time, are seated, have materials, engage in class discussions, read some amount of the assigned readings, complete homework when necessary, and complete assignments in class.
Then there are the classes-huge ones this year with as many as 36 or 40 teenagers-with large numbers of students who have a history of low standardized test scores, failed classes, absences, tardies, etc… These young adults know they are behind, and they recognize the lack of any serious consequences, so how would they know to do anything differently?
One of the many audits Dekalb publishes on its website discusses the need for programs that help struggling students, but from what I can tell Dekalb has adopted the business practice so common in the US: outsourcing. Instead of dealing with problems in the school buildling, Dekalb’s leaders seem to think the parents are the only ones who should be enforcing policies and rules. Barring physical harm or breaking the law by stealing, it seems the only response to students’ transgressions is “call the parent” (even if the parents are unreachable, lack necessary English skills, or acknowledge their inablity to control their child).
bootney farnsworth
January 6th, 2013
2:32 pm
again, I absolutely endorse kicking distruptive kids out of school. absolutely.
why is junior hoodlum more important to the system than the 20 kids who might actually want to learn something?
mgdawg
January 6th, 2013
2:36 pm
I think everyone agrees it all goes back to the parents, but the parents aren’t punished at all. Finding a way to punish the parents is probably the answer. If you’re kids misses ten days of school in one semester, the parents are ticketed. Your child gets suspended multiple times, you get a ticket again. You don’t pay the tickets, your kid can’t come to school and you are ticketed every ten days that they aren’t in school. Eventually, the parents would start to hold the kids to a higher standard.
KB
January 6th, 2013
2:41 pm
Students in GA who change school don’t individually take their funding with them to the next school since schools receive funding based on FTE, not individual student movement throughout the school year. Teacher allotment, which accounts for the bulk of a school’s budget, is determined by student enrollment on the 10th day of school. Therefore, when a public school receives a high volume of transfer students after the 10 day count they must serve those students without any increase in state funding and vice versa.
As for suspension/expulsion rates, public schools are held to a much higher standard when students exhibit behaviors that interfere with their learning or the learning of others. Public school students have learned that to be suspended, much less expelled, literally requires an Act of Congress. Therefore, behavior that would not have been tolerated in a classroom setting even 10 years ago is commonplace in schools today. Students have learned that they can sleep through their classes, fail tests, refuse to complete assignments, disrupt the educational process for everyone around them and their teachers will be held responsible for their failure.
Charter schools often function like private schools where students with severe discipline problems are weeded out only to return to public schools who must accept every child unless the child has been convicted of a designated felony.
Until society demands true equality with regard to equal responsibility for educational outcomes that is required of parents, students and teachers nothing will change, no matter which school receives funding.
bootney farnsworth
January 6th, 2013
2:45 pm
@ mgdawg
here’s the problem with your idea. while on the whole it has merit, occasionally some kids (speaking from experience) come from good homes and just run wild anyways. my parents didn’t tolerate my misadventures, but I did them anyways. I had a rough relationship with my parents and acting out in school was my way of getting at them.
it was common knowledge my parents did everything short of chaining me to the wall (I’m sure they considered it). before installing a parental punishment system, be sure to build in a way to exempt parents who are trying but just have a rotten kid.
roughrider
January 6th, 2013
3:07 pm
Students that disrupt classrooms should be expelled. There is no mention in the Constitution of an education, especially if you don’t want one.
Lee
January 6th, 2013
3:32 pm
“Charter schools kick out far more problem students, so what is the problem?”
There Maureen, if fixed the title for you.
The bottom line is that we shouldn’t allow one or two students to disrupt the education of the other 20-25 students in the class. If you read these blogs often, or better yet, talk to some teachers at your neighborhood school, you will hear stories of FIRST graders hitting, spitting, and cussing other students AND the teacher. Since the politically correct have manipulated the laws so that it takes an act of Congress to paddle their butts, there must be some way to get these future felons away from the general student population.
Back in the day, they called them “Reform Schools”.
Alternative schools, heck, call them “Schools for Exceptional Students”. There, that should placate the PC bozos who worry more about a juvenile delinquent’s “self esteem” than actual education.
Charter schools have their foot on the scale
January 6th, 2013
3:38 pm
Not only do charter schools kick out problem students at a faster rate than public schools, they also interview potential students in order to recruit the top academic performers while keeping out special education students, students with a history of discipline problems and chronic absenteeism.
NTLB
January 6th, 2013
3:44 pm
I don’t allow any child to disrupt the instructional time of my other 25-30 students in class. If they do, I complete referrals on them until they (administration, the parents, and the student) get tired of it. It takes some energy, but it works. It’s either me or them, and it is usually me that wins. Document, document, document.
public school principal
January 6th, 2013
3:48 pm
I spend most of my time dealing with 5% of the student population who continually misbehave and disrupt teaching and learning for the other students. I wish I could devote more time to the students who are interested in school and positive behavior. The 5% are not interested in the educational opportunity before them. The charter school closest to my school does kick out students who misbehave. They come to my school to enroll. I am sure tomorrow we will greet a few of these students who last semester were in the charter school
atlmom
January 6th, 2013
3:52 pm
bootney: of course, they knew that my kid was not going to protest much, and that I as a parent would be far easier to deal with than the parents of the other kid.
It is amazing to me the number of parents – in just the last year – that have taken their kids out of APS, out of ‘the best school in the system.’ Which means the next step is that parents who are looking for good schools aren’t going to be moving into those neighborhoods, for the schools – they might move in and send the kid to private school…but won’t be moving for the schools.
Sad.
FR
January 6th, 2013
4:04 pm
Two Points: Is anyone aware that the Supreme Court decision, Goss v. Lopez, determined that a child’s education is a property right protected by the Constitution and cannot be taken away without due process?
What happens to the children kicked out? Does anyone know of a problematic person others cast off, only to have him/ her make a complete change through the help of a caring person?
Private Citizen
January 6th, 2013
4:40 pm
bootney, I differ with you in this one case. I think schools do not deal with bullies because in the system-design they have nowhere to put them. I recall one student, just a crazy situation. Complete refusal to participate each and every day, three years out of grade level, and instead of class work, active disruption to other students, like a full time job. I should have just given this student the keys to the classroom and walked out. The school system had no “alternative environment” for the student to go to. Violent/criminal kids go to a jail type environment, otherwise there is little in between. One place chart schools can make some uptake is not in “performance” schools, but it alternative environments. That seems to be where they’re going with it. But it is really lame that teacher has to have these kind of kids placemarker placed / parked in a regular ed. classroom. And then these lame jerks running the show blame the teacher for some seriously deranged rebel kid with some kind of rebellion disorder. It’ll make a teacher quit, not because the work is difficult, but because the management is so derelict and hypocritical.
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
4:44 pm
For those people who think a lottery to attend a charter school puts that school on even footing with the traditional neighborhood schools, I have two questions.
How many homeless families do you think apply to a charter school in March for the following August?
How many parents of children, who don’t care about their child’s education fill out an application to and are willing to transport their child to a charter school?
Active in Cherokee
January 6th, 2013
4:49 pm
My views on the discipline issues are simple – if a student is expelled from the charter school, they should be forced to attend whatever school/place the student would attend if they were expelled from a ‘traditional’ public school. In many counties that would be an alternative school type setting, though I am aware not all systems have that. To expel a student from a charter school and put them back in the ‘traditional’ school shows a hierarchy that should not exist if all public schools are created equal (yes, I’m including charters as public schools as most of them are).
Private Citizen
January 6th, 2013
4:51 pm
NTLB True story. I have seen in a high school, while visiting an assistant principal I was on friendly terms with, seen a stack of not-yet-processed “referrals” as you call them (me, as well) that was 2′ tall, maybe more. this AP didn’t cover the whole school, either, maybe a third of it. At the same school, things like “rape in the stairwell” happen, and fights are began during the day and finished at night on sidewalks or under street lights.
In a not so “heavy” school I have seen where “referrals” mean one thing: management goes after the teacher. The administrators have “leadership” meetings and decide what to do with the teachers who write the most referrals. They literally keep a record of how many referrals each teacher writes, like the lap-time racing car list on car tv show “Top Gear.” Strange system where the teachers get punished and the kids get coddled.
Private Citizen
January 6th, 2013
4:52 pm
Active in Cherokee, I nominate you for state superintendent of schools.
Active in Cherokee
January 6th, 2013
4:54 pm
On a slightly separate issue, here’s a quote that stuck out to me: “They point out that D.C. charters enroll a higher proportion of poor children than the traditional public schools and that poor children often come to class with greater needs than their middle-class peers”
In my humble opinion, that is the role of the charter school and to me actually shows they are running the charter schools in DC somewhat in the manner as the original charter school initiative intended. However, in the counties where most of the war was waged in Georgia (Gwinnett, Cherokee, Fulton) the ‘pro-charter’ voice seemed to be upper-middle class parents in already successful schools wanting special privileges for their children and not wanting to pay for private school. On this blog for the last couple of years this is why I have been against the ‘state charter movement’ in Georgia, I think many citizens here in GA have the original intent of the charter school movement backwards.
Active in Cherokee
January 6th, 2013
4:57 pm
@private – I respectfully decline
cris
January 6th, 2013
5:08 pm
“For those people who think a lottery to attend a charter school puts that school on even footing with the traditional neighborhood schools, I have two questions.
How many homeless families do you think apply to a charter school in March for the following August?
How many parents of children, who don’t care about their child’s education fill out an application to and are willing to transport their child to a charter school?”
Thank you Atl Mom for explaining it so clearly…
Now here’s a radical idea – why don’t we start a charter for students who are expelled by the traditional public schools? Obviously something is not working for them…why uproot, relocate, transport the children who are successful in traditional public schools? Then you might see some improvement across the board – make the parents of the students who can’t hack it take them to their charter, have mandatory meetings, etc.
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
5:15 pm
For those interested:
DC public school free and reduced lunch: 52%
DC charter school low income: 72%
I assume the definitions of low income and free and reduced lunches are the same.
http://dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Who+We+Are/Facts+and+Statistics
http://www.dcpubliccharter.com/Parents-and-Community/DC-Charter-School-Factsheet.aspx
Tired
January 6th, 2013
5:19 pm
Doesn’t it all come down to resources? Parents working multiple jobs don’t have time to teach their kids ABC’s. Teachers handling huge classloads don’t have the time to work with the kids who need more; school systems can’t supplement the teacher with a social worker.
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
5:19 pm
cris,
You know the original idea behind charter schools was exactly what you are proposing? The idea was to create a place for students who did not learn in the traditional setting.
Active in Cherokee
January 6th, 2013
5:23 pm
@Atlanta Mom – SO many people miss that fact/original intention. Like many things in GA, we have it backwards here.
catlady
January 6th, 2013
5:31 pm
Concerned Dekalb Mom: I wonder how prevalent the “started the year in traditional school, then switched to charter” scenario is? Ms. Downey, can you find out? I am quite sure there is some, but I doubt it comes close to the charter to traditional switch part the year through.
Craig
January 6th, 2013
5:39 pm
The idea that our society MUST (by law) educate every child, without regard to their behavior and/or negative impact on the school environment, is a logical outgrowth of modern “progressive” thinking (as FR reminds us, the courts are infected with it). That is, equality is defined by outcomes, as opposed to opportunity. For today’s social engineers, it is not enough for government to appropriate large (and ever-increasing) sums of money to provide opportunity for every child to gain an education, regardless of faculties or economic standing. Their way of thinking denies/deprives people of the consequences of their action, be it directed to success or failure. In fact, their practice is to erode any distinctions that would otherwise arise from differing outcomes. Everyone’s a winner; consequently, no one is. In the end, the idea of retaining disruptive influences, as opposed to removing them, naturally follows from a desire to produce equal outcomes. Because, if we can’t assure that absolutely every single individual will take advantage of the opportunity to receive a quality education, then no one will have the assurance of receiving one.
Some have rightly pointed out that it is parents who must be held responsible for their children’s behavior. Good luck with that proposition. Those in charge don’t even expect parents to feed their own children. In fact, they want to give your kids birth-control without your consent. Ask the parents to be responsible for student behavior? That solution lies outside the realm of thinking for modern educrats and others perpetuating the administrative state, who have almost completely divorced themselves from the idea of “family” as the bedrock of a well-ordered society. These folks (and I’m talking about decision makers, not your average teacher) don’t think of parents as an ally; in fact, parents are seen as a nuisance, if not a hindrance to their agendas.
Finally, this subject is usually the one that breaks my camel’s back as far as teacher unions go. I always hear how unions (of any sort) are needed to ensure that work environments are maintained to a high standard. If that were true, the problem we are discussing could be solved in very short order. Mess with teacher benefits (retirement, in particular) and you might need to break out the water cannons at your state capitol. And all of these fights (about pay, benefits, tenure, etc) are said to be about “the welfare of our kids and ensuring a quality education.” Hmmm. I’m just waiting to see the day when teacher’s band together and, dare I say it, strike, refusing to return to work until administrators guarantee a safe, orderly, and respectful classroom environment. That, in fact, would be the mother of all meaningful education reforms.
Public HS Teacher
January 6th, 2013
5:45 pm
Charter schools kick out far more troublesome students – no shock here. Guess where they go? That’s right – back to their local public schools.
This seems to be one of the “grand plan items” for those pushing for charter schools. A method to segregate the student population.
But is this fair? And, does it really stop with the ‘troublesome’ studentts? What if a charter schools kicks out all African-American students? Is this okay, too? Evidently….
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
5:46 pm
For those interested:
DC public school free and reduced lunch: 52%
DC charter school low income: 72%
I assume the definitions of low income and free and reduced lunches are the same.
I submitted this information at 5:15 with appropriate cites, but the comment is being held in moderation.
Public HS Teacher
January 6th, 2013
5:50 pm
@Craig – Love your idea of a teacher strike. However, in the State of Georgia it would be illegal. In fact, if teachers strike they would be arrested.
This is our Georgia Law. It is intended to treat teachers like nothing more than cogs in a machine. If the “powers” don’t oil us, then so what? We still must make the machine work.
In Georgia, teachers have ZERO power and ZERO authority. We are treated little better than slaves – and I am not exagerating. The only teachers treated with any respect are those related to the power(s) such as their cousin, their nephew, etc., or those having an affair with them.
This is the sorry state of education in Georiga. And yes, it does impact the students and their future. But, no one seems to care enough to change anything. What needs to change is the Georgia law. The State needs to legalize real teacher unions with collective bargining power. Until that happens, it will either be status quo or get worse.
What's Best for Kids?
January 6th, 2013
5:51 pm
A charter school does not have to accept students after the beginning of the school year, either. So they get the funds for the first semester, even if they expell the child after the ten day count.
I believe that school choice is another option. If the children or parents don’t like the rules or the school culture, they can move elsewhere.
Craig
January 6th, 2013
5:54 pm
Public HS Teacher, what does race have to do with it? I seem to recall that it’s not okay to judge someone by the color of their skin. However, to judge someone by the content of their character… that sounds like a grand proposition, indeed.
mountain man
January 6th, 2013
5:54 pm
“What if a charter schools kicks out all African-American students? Is this okay, too?”
It is if they are the troublemakers. We are not talking Black and White here, we are talking about discipline problems and non-discipline problems.
It seems like the charter school opponents want charter schools to follow the same failed policies of “traditional” schools – don’t kick out discipline problems, socially promote failing students, mingle special education students with regular students – all because then they can say “see, charters are no better than regular schools.
The reason we support charters is that THEY seem to actually WANT to enforce discipline, rather than just give lip service and send the troublemakers back into classrooms to disrupt some more.
catlady
January 6th, 2013
5:56 pm
Atlanta Mom: Let’s not forget the families headed by a functionally illiterate parent. In Georgia that is quite significant. Add to that the drug- and alcohol-addled, and throw in those parents who do not know anything except what Jerry Springer puts on. THESE parents are NOT likely to be finding out, and signing up for a charter school, much less being able/willing to provide transportation every day. The sorting that goes on in many of these schools BEFORE the parent even thinks about applying is quite significant as well.
I like my idea better and better: You (charter school) send us an expelled student, and we (tradtional public school) will send you one of our choice!
mountain man
January 6th, 2013
5:56 pm
“Love your idea of a teacher strike. However, in the State of Georgia it would be illegal. ”
There is another idea: quit. If enough teachers left the system, then MAYBE the system would change. Or Maybe they they would just import teachers from India. Would parents stand for that?
Craig
January 6th, 2013
6:07 pm
The burden of the “strike” argument does not rest on Georgia alone. This is a nationwide problem and there are places where teachers do have strike power, but have failed to exercise that power in addressing this issue. Chicago provides a very recent example. And besides, how is that the legions of workers represented by these unions can not sway their reprentatives to wield influence towards solving such a critical and, seemingly, universal dilemma?
win-win
January 6th, 2013
6:21 pm
Let’s get the Gates Foundation to work with the government to put idle military bases to use as boot camp/boarding schools for the troubled students. This will put them a better environment to live and learn. Away from destructive friends and family. Last chance, no more government assistance for drop-outs or their families.
AnnieAD
January 6th, 2013
6:28 pm
I explored the comment above in regard to funding. If a Charter school in Georgia has the student enrolled by April 1 prior to the school year, and if the child is present at the Charter School for FTE the first Tuesday in October, then the Charter school gets the funding for that child for the entire school year.
Taxpayers should contact their legilslators to demand legislation that states that the charter school will send the funding for the child on explosion to the regular public school who has to “take in” the child.
It would be interesting to see if Charter schools in Georgia wait until after the October FTE to kick out children with disiline issues. I bet they do. AJC, please explore this. Also, how many charter school kick-outs do regular public schools have to accept? On a related note, if Fulton County is a charter system, can they use their flexibility to kick put disruptive students also, or does this just apply to private charters?
mountain man
January 6th, 2013
6:28 pm
“For those people who think a lottery to attend a charter school puts that school on even footing with the traditional neighborhood schools, I have two questions.”
Of course! That is the idea – to self-select, so that the parents and students that CARE can go to a school where they can actually LEARN, rather than be held back in a classroom where the teacher spends all his/her time trying to control the discipline problems. The ones who CARE deserve to get out of the system. Of course, there is an alternative – practice REAL discipline in “traditional” schools, but who is going to do that?
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
6:37 pm
mountain man,
If charter schools don’t have to educate all comers, why should they be funded at the same levels as traditional public schools? I guess you’re good with two levels of public schools.
Also, don’t compare traditional school results with charter schools, when they are not educating the same student body.
AnnieAD
January 6th, 2013
6:38 pm
KB, teacher allotment is determined by the state by a formula that takes the October FTE and March FTE and calculates. There is no calculation or even collection done on the tenth day of school unless it is a local school system decision.
Atlanta Mom
January 6th, 2013
6:38 pm
As for those two levels of public schools, some people would call that private schools funded with public money.
catlady
January 6th, 2013
6:45 pm
So, mtn. man, let’s have a charter that specifically caters to the poorly behaved. Let’s keep the “good” kids in regular school, and send the troublemakers to a special school where their needs (preparation for life, or preparation for incarceration) can be met. Small classes, strict discipline, extensive counseling, evaluation, medication if needed, parental education–sounds like a winner for all! And if they can’t cut it there, time for the YDC program.
We have a psycho ed center in the next county that frequently has success with very distrubed kids. Not always, but they have saved quite a few. Of course, it is difficult to get a child placed there, but it tells me that we DO have an alternative besides allowing the kid to disrupt the education of classmates for 6-7 years before “alternative school placement” kicks in.
Rush
January 6th, 2013
6:57 pm
To the question from tired…..If you are not interested in your child’s education/well being then don’t have offspring. Problem solved.
The teacher
January 6th, 2013
7:07 pm
Pride and Joy you need to check out this link, https://www.georgiastandards.org/Common-Core/Common%20Core%20Frameworks/CCGPS_ELA_Kindergarten_Standards.pdf.
It’s a link for the new Common Core ELA standards for Kindergarten…you say kids shouldn’t have to come prepared; take a look at these standards and still say they don’t need to know their ABC’s, and with the math standards, they need to know their 123’s also. Rigor is the new name of the game, and if we have a prayer of getting our students – at any grade level – to master these standards, they need all they can get before they actually start school. If they haven’t mastered them by the end of the year, they will continue to be behind at each grade level.
You piss and moan when you think they don’t learn enough; you piss and moan when they have too much homework or the work is too hard; you piss and moan when we try to hold your child accountable for their behavior, and you piss and moan when your kid says another kid didn’t get in trouble for whatever they did…make up your mind!!!
Yes charter schools get the public dollars that would have gone to their home public school (and not just dollar for dollar, charter schools are funded at a higher percentage (not sure what the increased % is and don’t want to know because it will fly all over me – again), and no the public school doesn’t get the money back if the kid is “expelled.” Yes, if a kid goes to a charter school in the middle of the year, the public school doesn’t get the money back and vice versa.
And the “count” everyone keeps referring to is the FTE count in Oct. and Feb. which deals with “full time equivalents” and is more for federal dollars than state, and it’s not for every kid.
The bottom line is that taking away from one to give to another will NEVER solve anything just piss off the ones who have it taken from them and continue to further the “entitlement” attitude for those who get it without really earning it…what has the charter school done to “earn” these public dollars – your tax money – ya your kid in public school won’t get it…
And now those of you who voted for the charter school bill can watch every charter school company – and they are for profit companies – come in as well as all those people who will try to start their own charter schools and see the “seed money” sprinkled over these schools to “make them grow” and watch the public schools wilt away – yet still be required by law to provide the education of those who have no other options – we are not allowed to turn these students away…
I could go on and on with the haves and have nots, but if we’d put people in power who actually understood education, its system, and its impact, maybe things could improve without all this divisiveness.
4xtra
January 6th, 2013
7:14 pm
The reason for all this??
SINGLE PARENT HOME
MT
January 6th, 2013
7:27 pm
The primary reason our students are falling behind those in other students is the lack of discipline. If schools were allowed to remove problem students, you’d be amazed at our progress.
Gerald
January 6th, 2013
7:32 pm
Well duh. That is the whole point of charter schools to begin with. To get rid of the kids who can’t be educated because of their disciplinary issues so that the schools can focus on helping the kids that are well behaved get educated. So, this is news why? This is precisely why charter schools are heavily supported by the black community (not to be confused by the civil rights groups that are in bed with the teacher’s unions and who see public schools as a jobs program). Working and middle class blacks working to discipline, educate and raise their kids are tired of throwing away their kids futures because public schools refuse to remove discipline problems. Charter schools are doing what public schools need to but won’t, which is precisely why they are so popular.
Ron F
January 6th, 2013
7:38 pm
Actually 4xtra- you are WRONG. I am a single parent raising my two nephews who I took from a drug-infested two parent home. They are now both in high school, one in AP classes and the other excelling in computers and art. They are healthy, well-adjusted young men who have been raised to value education and the opportunity and responsibility they have in this life. The problem is uncaring parents, whether single or married. Get your facts straight on that issue, please.
As to the subject of the article, I have this response: be careful what you wish for. Quick fixes seldom work, and simply changing to charter schools isn’t going to solve the underlying social issues we have been dealing with in traditional public schools for decades. Charters offer opportunities to expand what we can do, but they are not the panacea. There is no single solution, and current political trends toward privatization of education will, in the end, only cause more problems than they’ll ever solve.
bootney farnsworth
January 6th, 2013
7:45 pm
I was hell on wheels for most of my primary school experience. myself and most of my gang of misfits came from intact middle class homes.
I agree single parent homes are a major issue, but it goes deeper than that.
KB
January 6th, 2013
7:51 pm
GA teacher allotment per school system is determined by the FTE count for the previous year’s March, October and December counts. However, teacher allotment at the school level is usually determined by the 10 day count. This is more of an issue for school systems with a large number of schools but for schools with large populations of disruptive and academically unsuccessful students class size will increase when charter schools expel students. My point is that the money does not “follow” the student when he or she transfers during the school year. Also, by law class size in secondary schools is now up to 34-36 students per class. This means if every class is filled to capacity, in a seven period day a high school teacher’s caseload can exceed 200 students. Unless the majority of those students and their parents take equal responsibility for their success, which many do not, how does anyone think education in GA will ever improve? Disruptive students are a problem but they are not the only problem that needs to be addressed for GA’s schools to increase educational outcomes.