NRA wants armed guards in every school. Will that make schools safer or raise risks?
NOTE: I am moderating all comments to the blog today in response to some of the stuff I was seeing in an earlier post today. Your comment will not appear until I read and approve it.
After its low profile following the Newtown shooting, the NRA today called for armed officers in every school.
“The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day. And does anybody really believe that the next Adam Lanza isn’t planning his attack on a school he’s already identified at this very moment?” said NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre at a news conference interrupted by a protester holding the sign “NRA is killing our kids.”
He continued: “How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame — from a national media machine that rewards them with the wall-to-wall attention and sense of identity that they crave — while provoking others to try to make their mark?”
LaPierre’s comments brought immediate rebuke: “He envisions a world in which the only way to stop a school shooting is to welcome school shootouts,” opined the New York Daily News.
I suspect the NRA response will also have its advocates, including a reader who sent me a one-word response: “Bravo.”
Here is an excerpt from the AP report on today’s NRA news conference:
The group’s top lobbyist, Wayne LaPierre, said at a Washington news conference that “the next Adam Lanza,” the man responsible for last week’s mayhem, is planning an attack on another school.
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.
He blamed video games, movies and music videos for exposing children to a violent culture day in and day out.
“In a race to the bottom, many conglomerates compete with one another to shock, violate, and offend every standard of civilized society, by bringing an even more toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty right into our homes,” LaPierre said.
LaPierre announced that former Rep. Asa Hutchison, R-Ark., will lead an NRA program that will develop a model security plan for schools that relies on armed volunteers.
Since the slayings, President Barack Obama has demanded “real action, right now” against U.S. gun violence and called on the NRA to join the effort. Moving quickly after several congressional gun-rights supporters said they would consider new legislation to control firearms, the president said this week he wants proposals to reduce gun violence that he can take to Congress by January.
Obama has already asked Congress to reinstate an assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 and pass legislation that would stop people from purchasing firearms from private sellers without a background check. Obama also has indicated he wants Congress to pursue the possibility of limiting high-capacity magazines.
Earlier this week, the National Association of School Resource Officers sent out this information
MO CANADY, NASRO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: “A well-trained, armed SRO is one of the best defenses against an active shooter. We provide training to school-based police officers on sound tactics that save lives during a shooting attack.
“While an SRO is essential, school safety requires collaboration between multiple agencies and parties. No single group or person, including an SRO, can effectively improve safety alone. We urge involvement by parents, cafeteria staff, janitorial staff, counselors, nurses and even students, as appropriate.”
FAQs
Are SROs trained to deal with armed assailants?
Yes. NASRO provides specialized training to SROs on how to properly respond to an active shooter in a sound way. And while NASRO designed the training for SROs, the organization offers it to all law enforcement officers. The tactics that NASRO teaches would also be effective with armed assailants in other settings, such as shopping centers, offices, etc.
How many schools have SROs? Do elementary schools have them?
SROs are not that common in elementary schools. NASRO has 5,000 members who are SROs and there are many more SROs across the nation. We estimate that there are approximately 10,000 school-based police officers across the country.
Can parents get involved in school security?
NASRO recommends that every school have a security team that includes school administrators, teachers, cafeteria staff, janitorial staff, counselors, nurses, students and parents. Here are some ways parents can be involved:
•Ask for a town-hall style meeting on security. Such meetings allow interested parties to voice concerns, get questions answered, examine new issues, etc. These meetings should occur on a regular basis, not just in response to recent tragedies.
•Gain an understanding of the security policies at your school. Find out if parents were involved in designing the policy.
•Consider serving as a parent member of the security team to help with policies.
•Get to know your school’s SRO, if the school has one.
•If you don’t have an SRO, work with your school’s administrators on ways to get funding for an SRO.
Will the Connecticut school shooting be a catalyst for change, in the same way school security changed after the campus rampages that occurred between 1993-1999?
NASRO hopes so. School security procedures have limitations. Not every school can implement every option that is available. Schools must be safe havens, not prisons, so each school must find the right balance. But we must protect every school from violence in all of its forms. This includes children who bring weapons to school, violent attacks from outsiders, theft, drugs, bullying, etc.
STATS
There were 33 school-associated violent deaths during the 2009-2010 school year. In 2010, among students ages 12 to18, there were approximately 828,000 nonfatal victimizations at schools, including 359,000 victims of violence.
In 2009-2010, 74 percent of public schools recorded one or more violent incidents.
CDC study:
In 2009, 5.6 percent of children nationwide carried a weapon onto school property on at least one day in the 30 days prior to the survey.
Nationwide, 17.5 percent of students had carried a weapon (e.g., a gun, knife, or club) on at least one day during the 30 days before the survey.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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143 comments Add your comment
Edugator
December 21st, 2012
1:18 pm
We have an SRO in middle school. Nice guy, but I’d rather have another reading teacher instead.
Maude
December 21st, 2012
1:38 pm
Yes, every school should have an armed policeman on campus!! Without that all elementary schools are open targets.
Dr. Proud Black Man
December 21st, 2012
1:45 pm
Agree 100% We guard valuable institutions and what’s more valuable than our children. Of course the repubs will never agree to the necessary taxes to ensure the guards are properly trained and staffed. And to the call for “let’s get volunteers” crowd…Zimmerman.
Concerned Parent
December 21st, 2012
1:46 pm
Just curious about one thing. The person who shot those poor kids was wearing a bullet-proof vest, correct? Are these school resource officers trained to perform what would have to be a successful head shot, while the person presumably would be shooting at them with whatever weapon he brought into the school? Many people say that most trained police officers can’t accomplish this kind of shot.
Until there’s actually a PLAN of action, these statements from the NRA can’t be taken seriously.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
1:52 pm
an idea long overdue. I wish it didn’t seem necessary, but that cow has left the barn. deal with reality.
will it make the kids safer – probably not. will it make things worse – probably not. but in today’s society, better to have than not.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
1:56 pm
@ concerned
and many people would be wrong. however, the obvious answer is to make sure they are carefully trained and screened.
there are many young people who muster out of the military every year who have the sort of real life
training to make strategic decisions at a seconds notice and can make the kind of shot
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
2:01 pm
and said officer should also be trained out the wazoo on any number of non lethal techniques to subdue nutjobs. and be equip with non lethal weapons like tasers, hard rubber batons, and such.
mifted
December 21st, 2012
2:09 pm
Who pays for this? I must ask. I realize this may be insensitive but school shootings are really rare. We are inable to fund our schools as is.
STHU&STHD
December 21st, 2012
2:10 pm
Police officers are just as venerable to mental illness, depressions, suicide etc. as any other human. There are a lot of stories out there of cops that went bad.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
2:12 pm
and I’d not have them undercover. I want them visible for all the world to see.
and a posted notice stating there is armed law enforcement on site.
indigo
December 21st, 2012
2:12 pm
Well, since there is no way guns are going to go away in America, I have no problem with at least two police officers at every school.
In fact, if it were up to me, I’d withdraw every one of our soldiers in Afghanistan and have them guarding our schools.
Any deranged shooter going to a school and facing two combat experienced and armed Marines would either give up quickly or be blown away.
And, no, I don’t like us coming to the point where we might need soldiers guarding our schools.
But, it’s better than another shooting with twenty or more dead children.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
2:13 pm
so moderate already
indigo
December 21st, 2012
2:14 pm
Parent
Even with a bullet-proof vest, a volly of shots will temporarly disable the wearer.
Rick L in ATL
December 21st, 2012
2:17 pm
We’ve let the media turn this into a gun-control debate before we even finished the school-safety debate. As creepy a figure as Wayne LaPierre is, he’s absolutely right about one thing: when you advertise an area as being a gun-free zone, saying to any armed madman: here’s where you can come to inflict maximum mayhem.
We would never have gone back into the skies after 9/11 if we hadn’t been assured an air marshall with a gun was going to be on each plane to protect us. We could no longer afford for airplanes to be “gun free zones.”
What LaPierre is proposing is an air marshall program for schools. Would you take this action–and pay this price– to avoid seeing another Newtown? I would.
In our lifetimes, we’ll never bring the country to one stance on gun ownership. So why are we wasting so much oxygen on an unsolvable problem? Protect schools now, and let the fringes scream at each other over gun control later.
ABC
December 21st, 2012
2:18 pm
Yes of course what we need is MORE guns in places where small children learn, play, and work. Because it’s not like they are curious about guns or anything. Because it’s not like there couldn’t be an accident or anything. Because it’s not like the current broke school systems couldn’t afford anything but the most moronic nincompoop to patrol school hallways.
Archie
December 21st, 2012
2:19 pm
All people carrying guns in schools should be duly-deputized peace officers with full authority, even if they also happen to be teachers and/or administrators.
Ga Patriot
December 21st, 2012
2:23 pm
There are many veterans returning who have weapons training and skills and no jobs. If he/she were stationed in the parking lot, with surveillance cameras at all the other locked entrances with the surveillance videos available in the car. The security officer can call the police for any suspicious persons approaching the school, for instance, someone with an assault rifle and bullet proof vest.
If a potential terrorist were shot in the leg(s), he would be considerably slowed down before he could get to the children. Idiot.
valerie
December 21st, 2012
2:24 pm
In this day and time, yes all schools including colleges/universities need police officers on campus. Praying all students are safe each day
Centrist
December 21st, 2012
2:28 pm
How about either and armed guard, or a trained, armed volunteer (non-teacher) staff member?
The idea is to deter violent people from striking a defenseless venue.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
2:28 pm
Well of course the NRA wants more people to have more guns.
More guns equal more money for the NRA.
And that’s all that this is about, money and power.
Is this about safety for kids?
Not a chance.
kate
December 21st, 2012
2:32 pm
This assumes that the lone safety officer/cop would be at the exact spot where a gunman enters. In large/spread out schools such as Sandy Hook, that is unlikely to happen. So I don’t see the logic in the NRA’s “plan” at all.
yuzeyurbrane
December 21st, 2012
2:35 pm
SRO’s seem to be part of the solution but not the whole solution. There is no valid reason for automatic weapons to be in the hands of anyone except law enforcement and the military.
mac d
December 21st, 2012
2:36 pm
NRA wants armed guards in every school.
Oh, you mean in white schools? OK. Got it. Predominantly black schools in inner cities will be business as usual.
Alex Richards
December 21st, 2012
2:38 pm
I usually deplore the positions of the NRA. But they are right on the position of a School Resource Officer at every school.
No one can legislate evil or crazy away. I’m all for more sensible gun control laws but lets not kid ourselves, that alone will not stop school violence. We need to protect the children of this nation. Government and industry sprang to action after 9/11 with air marshals. And they did it FAST. In our society, are business travelers and vacationers more important than our children? Come on.
Please no one tell me it’s a money issue. That’s disgusting in the wake of this newest tragedy. After a quick review, it would appear that there approximately 100,000 public schools in America. A budget for a well trained SRO at each of those schools would total about 5 billion per year. According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, there are about 240 million working Americans. With those numbers, that’s about $21 per year per working American. That’s $1.75 per week to stop most all of this senseless violence against children at schools. For the staunch conservatives that can’t tax anyone, then just shut up and find the money in this budget or find another gig.
There is no absolute and complete fail-safe solution to this issue. But with tigher school security logistics and a trained, armed Resource Officer at each school, no one of right mind can say that schools would not be safer. They would.
We need a leadership voice that knows that this is not a political issue to debate, posture and argue about. Pursue better gun control, develop better vehicles and avenues for awareness and services for mental health issues.
But in the meantime, GOD ALMIGHTY take ACTION! Move to fund and provide School Resource Officers to every school in America. Move like we did when air marshals were almost immediately implemented. There’s no excuse. I’m a proud American, and I’ve never been cynical about our nation. But God help us and our children if we don’t get up off the deck on this issue and ACT NOW. Shame on this nation if we don’t.
gun sense
December 21st, 2012
2:39 pm
@concerned parent
plz dont be so nieve; a head shot really? and no security would not need to carry an assault weapon either. let me explain it very slowly:
If there was an active shooter on campus/workplace/etc… simply returning fire will distract said shooter and if the shooter is hit even with body armor on it could slow or possibly make the shooter flee. If it slows the shooter down or misdirects the shooter away from children that is a good thing until the “good guys” get there.
Texas and other states have had armed “guardians” since 2007 with zero incidents to report
The NRA does have a plan of action: they have stated they will train anyone that wishes it; they have stated that they know it can not be a “one size fits all”; and that each district will need to decide the steps to follow:
its seems some here are missing “gun sense” or is it “they just can’t handle the truth”
for further note: plz go to the NRA website and actually read their plan of action; if there are parts you like/dislike bring that to the attention of your local school board; are lockdowns effective, classroom ACT training, or running from the building be a new plan?
Pardon My Blog
December 21st, 2012
2:39 pm
Maureen, I thought you were monitoring the comments. @Dr. Proud Black Man’s comment is certainly racist and baiting. With regards to armed guards, there is not going to be one right answer unfortunately. I think we should also look at the privacy laws and see if they are protecting the wrong people. Had the professionals at Virginia Tech known more about Cho’s troubled past, perhaps there would not have been that tragedy.
Red Herring!
December 21st, 2012
2:42 pm
How classy (and predictable) of the NRA to use a national tragedy to encourage and enforce the sales of even more guns. I don’t want to live in a militarized society. What we need is less guns, not more. No one needs an assault rifle. They need to go. I know it won’t be easy, but that is the answer.
The school I recently worked at had two SRO’s. They would have been / would be useless if a psychopath broke into the school wearing a bullet proof vest and carrying a semi-automatic assault rifle.
What about all the other massacres that have occurred in theaters, malls, college campuses, post offices, temples, churches, parking lots, public forums… Bringing guns into schools is not the answer; banning assault weapons is. The NRA is diverting attention from the matter at hand. This is not about WHERE, it’s about WHAT.
Terry Tucker
December 21st, 2012
2:49 pm
Growing up we had a police officer on campus Jr High and High School. Eventaully, the Superindendent removed them becuse of cost issues and the Officer actually arrested criminals in the school (bad press)
The NRA essentially called for something that isn’t going to be funded in public schools. Would private schools also be required by law to have police officers?
There also has to be distinction between an armed guard and a trained police officer. They are not the same.
Also in the statement the NRA blamed the media and voilent games and movies (but not guns). Canada has the same movies and games we do but do not have the violence.
Big T
December 21st, 2012
2:49 pm
To Concerned Parent, the deterrent comes from the knowledge that a trained, and armed, SRO is present in the school. That’s all the PLAN we need.
George
December 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
Over Kill
Married with (School) Children
December 21st, 2012
2:53 pm
The NRA also announced that they are “appointing former Arkansas Rep. Asa Hutchinson to lead an effort to develop a cutting-edge model school security plan and a program to train volunteers who would be dispatched to campuses around the country.”
Armed volunteers dispatched to campuses… yeah, that will end well.
LoganvilleGuy
December 21st, 2012
2:57 pm
@Concerned Parent –
All police officers are trained in “failure” drills. This is a head shot after shots to center mass don’t stop an assailant. However, any headshot is EXTREMELY difficult to make unless close. It is especially tough as you have pointed out when you are being shot at.
However, this is where it becomes important to equip officers with patrol rifles. We’ve seen time and time again that suspects are using body armor during violent crimes. If an officer is equipped with a patrol rifle, the body armor won’t matter. Additionally, patrol rifles are more accurate at substantially longer distances than handguns.
scrappy
December 21st, 2012
2:58 pm
Absolutely ridiculous, useless, and will totally not help the problem.
All the ‘lunatic’ with a gun as to do now is surprise the armed guard, kill him first, and then move on to killing dozens of kids just as they have before. So we will still have guns in the hands of people with mental problems, with clips that hold hundreds of bullets, and will still have innocent kids killed.
The NRA is just trying to give people a false sense of hope and/or security that supports their ideaology.
Kujohn
December 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
Did Lapierre take credit for the shooting in Newtown I didn’t hear his speech
catlady
December 21st, 2012
3:02 pm
I also believe we shouldn’t put schools so close together. I’ve been warning about that for 10 years. In my small system, a gunman could take out an elementary school, middle school, and high school in one area, and a primary and elementary school in another. The death toll could encompass virtually every kid in the county from those sites.
Rick L in ATL
December 21st, 2012
3:03 pm
“So why is the idea of a gun good when it’s used to protect our President or our country or our police, but bad when it’s used to protect our children in their schools?
They’re our kids. They’re our responsibility. And it’s not just our duty to protect them – it’s our right to protect them.” –From LaPierre’s prepared remarks (http://wapo.st/UNyelX)
I think everyone should read the full text of LaPierre’s statement. Before today, I thought of him as an extremist fringe winger. But he has done something important today: he has articulated the problem in front of us, the WHOLE problem, and proposed the only solution that will actually work. Liberals, in the meantime, have done nothing but scream about the need to return to a partial assault weapons ban that had 600 exemptions; a piece of legislative Swiss cheese.
Liberals think that because Obama won by 3%, they’re suddenly on the right side of everything from tax hikes to gun control. But LaPierre just took their lunch money and hung them up on on their school lockers. Ouch.
Bill & Ed's Excellent Adventure
December 21st, 2012
3:04 pm
You should NOT be able to buy an assault rifle with a high-capacity magazine and ammo at Walmart. NRA is just trying to distract from the issue at hand – a groundswell of support for more comprehensive gun control.
David
December 21st, 2012
3:06 pm
Not sure why I am writting this since Dear Maureen is personally approving all posts and 3 out of 4 that made it agree with her gun control view. However facts are facts, gun control laws and laws that limit access to guns do not make people safer, they take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens but not out of the hands of people who want to do harm. There is no such thing as a good gun, there is no such thing as a bad gun, there are bad people who use guns and they are a danger, there are good people who use guns and they are a threat to nobody other than bad people. I think having an armed officer in schools would be a good thing. Average deaths in violent attacks when you have to wait for police to arrive is just over 18. Average deaths in violent attacks when you have someone there who is armed when it starts is less than 3.
The Deal
December 21st, 2012
3:08 pm
Columbine had an armed SRO on that day. That really helped them.
Coastdog
December 21st, 2012
3:11 pm
He had a black tactical vest used to carry equipment. He did not have on an armored vest.
old man
December 21st, 2012
3:17 pm
I am 56, and I have never shot a gun. Could any of you with experience answer this for me, yes or no:
IS IT FUN TO SHOOT A GUN?
If I knew the answer to this, it would help me develop an opinion on gun control
Do What It Takes
December 21st, 2012
3:17 pm
As an educator, I support the concept of having more armed security at our schools. Obviously, what it would look like would have to vary from school to school based on parent input and perceived threat. I just feel that these kids that are entrusted to us are a treasure, and I want them to be protected. Good lord, I walked into Tiffany & Co. last night and there were 4 uniformed guards plus the doorman who were all armed (Literally. No exaggeration). It didn’t cut back on the welcoming environment of the place, but it sure would change a would-be criminal’s mind in a heartbeat. I want the same presence at our schools. If we can guard inanimate minerals in that way without public outcry, why not our kids?
Lurker
December 21st, 2012
3:17 pm
Concerned Parent,
Ballistic Vests do not stop a bullet from hurting. Most people would be severely stunned by the impact of a bullet on a ballistic vest. I would be something like being hit with a hammer. I don’t know how the perpetrator in this incident would have reacted, but I believe that most people would have been on the ground or at least doubled-over if their ballistic vest was hit with a couple of bullets. An officer would not necessarily need to shoot him in the head to stop him.
A well trained person who is prepared to be shot in the vest, would not have much problem with a single officer. However, a person with such training and such determination to commit harm could probably wreak havoc with no vest and no gun.
old man
December 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
I am 56, and I have never shot a gun. Could any of you with experience answer this for me, yes or no:
Is it fun to shoot a gun?
If I knew the answer to this, it would help me develop an opinion on gun control.
Missgrace
December 21st, 2012
3:21 pm
There is zero evidence that this is a good idea or will work.
Section 236
December 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
Seems like a perfect oppurtunity for all the troops coming home.
shelly
December 21st, 2012
3:27 pm
We protect our President with guns, our brinks money trucks,social security offices, banks and so forth. How much more should we protect our future generations while they are learning. What hypocrisy to leave them with no protections. Had ANY teacher in this latest shooting had a gun I’m sure there would have been more survivors.
jasonfightscrime
December 21st, 2012
3:29 pm
I was an SRO until I was promoted out of the program. It was the best job I’ve ever had.
I think there’s a lot to be said for having one on campus. They make the school a harder target because the shooter will have to contend with an armed person on campus who (assuming the radios work in the building which can be a real problem) should be able to summon help and cooridnate a law enforcement response to an intruder far more effetively than someone calling 911.
An SRO on campus can help prevent school shootings by taking action before it even takes place. Many school shooters warn people about it before the shooting take place. One of the hardest thing is to get kids to come forward with those threats. But when they do come forward, and SRO can play a vital role as part of the threat assement team that can try to figure our whether it is a genuine threat or not. It’s much easier for the SRO to reach out into the community to do things like meet with the family at home. In other cases, the SRO may find that the threat is real. In 2005, two Clayton County Police SROs were given the National Association of School Resource Officers SRO of the year award for uncovering a plot by students to use snipers to shoot kids leaving the building when a fire alarm was pulled.
Another advantage to having an officer on campus is the emphasis of the SRO on security. Most educators have little to no training on how to deal with security and their emphasis is on educating kids. The SRO’s main concern is making sure that the school is safe, and he can keep reminding the school of things like the need to keep all but one door on the school locked, the desirabliity of cameras, and the need for safety drills.
It’s not a perfect solution, because an SRO is more than just a guard on campus. One of the most frequent issues that called me away was court. There are other things the officer will have to deal with which will pull him or her away from the school. I had four schools to cover (one high school, one middle school, and two elementary schools). It was not uncommon for me to be called away to another campus whether it was one of mine, to back up another SRO, or handle a case for another SRO who was out sick or in court.
There’s also the expense of the program. In my county, SROs are based at the high schools and visit the other schools in the cluster. That’s probably typical. I think the it would be a lot better to have an SRO at each high school and middle school. That would only double the cost of the program since there’s generally only one middle school per high school. Elementary schools tend to be much smaller, so four or five elemntary schools may feed a high school and middle school cluster. An typical SRO program with 10 high schools might need to increase to 50 to 60 officers to cover every campus. You might need more to cover for sick leave, court, and extra supervision.
The NRA has an interesting position. It would probably be very effective. It would also be costly. Frankly, I would think it would be incredibly dull for the officers assigned to elementary schools.
My Kids Mom
December 21st, 2012
3:38 pm
And our schools have the money to train guards? What would we give up? No extra money is going to come our way.
I feel like the decision to add more guns to protect us from existing guns is deciding that shootings in schools, malls, churches… are inevitable. I don’t think they are. I think they are preventable. I don’t want to take guns away from everyone. But we could limit what types of ammunition are available. No one needs a semi automatic to hunt or to protect their own home. Start there.
It is argued that it is too late to get rid of guns. Well, my grandfather started smoking cigarettes at age 12, and we’ve certainly changed that. We limited who could buy them and where they could be used.
Start putting limits on guns and take this slowly. Let our grandchildren see the change.
amx
December 21st, 2012
3:50 pm
Why not suggest an armed bodyguard for every student? As one poster stated, we protect our president and Brinks trucks with armed men. Of course, that didn’t keep Reagan from getting shot nor stopped any Brinks robberies, but it will sell more guns. I’m sure municipalities that haven’t given their police or teachers raises of any note in several years will be glad to pay for all this new protection. Of course, we could make it a lot harder to get weapons, but that might hurt someone’s feelings or infringe on their right to kill.
Jay
December 21st, 2012
3:51 pm
I assume that the NRA also asked for a tax on gun and ammo sales to help pay for the SRO across the land
Paul
December 21st, 2012
3:52 pm
Generally, the people who have perpetrated mass shootings in school came in with weaponary that was far superior to what an SRO or other employed security. Also, if I heard correctly that it was suggested that “volunteers” with licensed firearms be enlisted to provide additional security we have to remember that George Zimmerman was a volunteer of sorts and we see how well that worked. The experts will tell you that a person who is committed to doing violence on a group of people will be able to accomplish to some degree eactly what it is that they are trying to do. They have the advantage of when and how, and with what. That is hard for a single SRO to stop.
Ivan Cohen
December 21st, 2012
3:56 pm
If teachers are armed and have to use their weapons, liability issues will arise. Armed guards, let a law get passed that all 159 counties with public schools will have a campus patrol.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:00 pm
@ missgrace
there is zero evidence it won’t.
there IS evidence, however, to illustrate what happens without them
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:01 pm
@ jason,
lets hope it will be dull for anyone posted at an elementary school.
Starik
December 21st, 2012
4:01 pm
“School Resource Officer” is a bit euphemistic, isn’t it? LaPierre is a nut, but he’s right in the second part of his suggestion – a nationwide database of the possibly dangerous mentally ill.
indigo
December 21st, 2012
4:04 pm
Dr. Proud Black Man.
I’m curious.
Exactly what is it you’re proud of?
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:04 pm
@ Bill & Ed,
based on what I’m reading, except for the radical fringe, the tide, if anything, is swinging away from nonsensical ban everything to lets deal with reality.
assuming they are legally obtained, it is not your business-or anyone elses- to tell a US citizen what kind of weapons they may or may not own.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:09 pm
@ old man,
yes, shooting a gun is fun. it is also scary as hell and if you’re not careful you can get physically hurt.
now, really – why are you asking?
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:13 pm
the only possible volunteers which would be acceptable would be former/retired military who pass muster with the certification officials.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:18 pm
I’m not interested in SROs.
I’m talking trained military or SWAT people with the power to make arrests.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:25 pm
@ Paul
in all honesty, anyone that determined to cause mayhem is almost certainly gonna be successful.
and if they don’t have a gun, they’ll have something else. genuine fanatics and nutballs will find
a way. Tim McVeigh used fertilizer.
sad truth: if some psycho wants to kill, odds are they will.
but the general hoods, the not so convicted, the morons with little impulse control – these clowns can be stopped.
Paul
December 21st, 2012
4:26 pm
question for @bootney. I wonder who is going to pay for all of this ramped up security.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:33 pm
@ Paul
that is one of the rubs, isn’t it? that was my first thought, too.
my guess- emphasis guess- would be from a tax on guns and ammo. also we can cut back a bit on things like US aid to foreign countries, say 15%.
bootney farnsworth
December 21st, 2012
4:35 pm
a possible example: when I was at GPC, we had an on campus security force. about 1 in 6 carried sidearms. i’m not sure, but I think there was an arsenal of bigger things if needed.
Ros Dalton
December 21st, 2012
4:46 pm
It’s human nature to witness a tragedy and feel the need to do something (anything) to try to prevent it from happening again. That being obvious, events like this are so rare and take on such a variety of forms that they are essentially impossible to prevent. Armed guards might help, or they might just add to the casualty total. Same with arming school employees. There’s no way to predict what might occur the next time a nut tries to shoot up a school.
What will not matter is any type of gun control legislation. There are enough weapons in private hands today to keep our citizenry swimming in guns until the Mayan calendar rolls over again, and no proposed legislation removes them from circulation. Additionally our nation has a porous border with a 3rd world country that has well established routes to move illegal goods in virtually at will.
I personally think that the best chance at preventing this type of school shooting is an increased emphasis on identifying and treating mental health problems in our country-but that’s just my guess, these things really are so random that the next individual to commit such an unimaginable act may well have a perfectly clean mental health history.
So I suggest we mourn. We hug our kids. We show gratitude that these tragedies are so incredibly rare… and we try to drive safely and teach our kids how to prevent heart disease, both of which are about ten thousand times more likely to save their lives than armed guards OR gun control legislation.
gun sense
December 21st, 2012
4:58 pm
still no dialogue about school security just gun control: for and against.
all of us should be in contact with our local school boards about school security; there are armed “guardians” in other states and it has worked. There are other locations that do not want anything on campus and that is their right as the community decides. There is not a one size fits all security protocol. Everyone has their view and you should let it be know in your community.
I think there should be some changes to gun laws, like magazine capacity; enforcing present gun laws; safety classes; or even age ranges for certain guns; bad thing is that last idea would not have helped CT.
Everyone wants their way but I think there can be a conseus of what a community would tolerate and not. I know what I want my community to do and its to never have an defensless teacher lunge at a shooter or find 18 kids with their teacher dead in a closet. Never again and not in my neighborhood.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
5:07 pm
Gun sense, I’ll follow your argument. Please show us the community where armed guards worked. Please show us the community with the armed guards at the school house door who PREVENTED a mass tragedy — and tell us the outcomes of everyone.
Most arguments involving armed guards at school house doors involve armed guards shooting a perp AFTER the perp shoots the kids.
That’s too late.
I want to PREVENT the shooter from shooting, not just shoot the shooter after he’s already killed some kids.
Please enlighten us.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
5:08 pm
Ros Dalton, sane people also commit crimes. So although I agree with you that we need to treat the mentally ill, that doesn’t prevent the murderers who are sane when they do it.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
5:10 pm
Bootney writes “would be former/retired military who pass muster with the certification officials.”
Uh…you did read about the military psychiatrist who opened fire in fort hood killing 11 people, right?
Kris
December 21st, 2012
5:12 pm
More school resource officers might be the answer, paid for by the NRA and additional TAX on all guns and license, and let that pay for the additional security.
Hire former solders that are all ready trained.
red herring
December 21st, 2012
5:16 pm
i have no problem with a security guard/police office at schools. i also have no problem with assault rifle bans and 30 round clip bans. i do have a problem with the left not wanting to take some of the blame due to violent movies/video games, etc.. a kid playing a violent game like that 4 to 6 hours a day will have a tendency not to see the finality in murder. there needs to limits placed on those type movies and games. there also needs to an improvement in how people are assessed for mental health issues– loners/long coats/black clothing all the time/etc should be clues. still we live in the land of the free and in order to keep those freedoms there will be some risks involved. whatever laws are passed on the basis of this event should be comprehensive and include all of my above comments.
gun sense
December 21st, 2012
5:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV8w5L0oKeM
oldtimer
December 21st, 2012
5:35 pm
I do think that a police officer in every school is a great idea. It would be a deterent. Restricting gun sale will not change anything. The criminals will still have what ever they want…they do…
luangtom
December 21st, 2012
5:53 pm
The proposal by the NRA is nothing new for many school districts. Right here in GA, there are already schools that have armed-security, generally POST-certified officers. It works. I suspect many programs are in danger, now that Federal funding has already been cut, as pointed out by the NRA today. Why?Why did the government, in its infinite wisdom choose to defund programs that save lives and keep the savory out of schools and at bay? This is definitely a question needing a firm response with an explanation.
I came down here from a small police department in MN. We had school-liason officers for years. They were added to our force to quell gang and drug-related problems. They worked. They also added to the community, in that these officers followed the calendars of the schools. When not in session, these officers were available to fill-in where needed for vacations, sick-days and extra-duty and events. The officers liked the added funds and the community did not have to hire an extra full-time officer to fill the temporary vacancies. It works. It will work in all school districts, if there is positive management of the program and over-sight.
luangtom
December 21st, 2012
5:56 pm
Read…UNsavory in the schools above…..sorry. My bad.
Jasonfightscrime
December 21st, 2012
5:56 pm
@Bootney
SROs are law enforcement officers with the power of arrest. Some are SWAT officers, but I don’t see the need for it. They do need to be well trained, and should have a rifle available in their car and secured at a location in the school.
For others, most active shooters commit suicide or surrender when they know the police are near. Columbine was an interesting case. The SRO there was in a gun fight with the shooters until he ran out of ammo. There was a lull in law enforcement action because of the current philosophy in law enforcement was to surround locations and call for SWAT. Under the current doctrine, law enforcement will move as rapidly as possible to where the shooter is to.neutralize him. The only role for SWAT with inactive shooter is to mop up after the shooter is dead or captured.
jconservative
December 21st, 2012
6:14 pm
So the proposal is for armed guards in schools. What about the school kids on school buses? Do we put armed officers on every school bus? Armed escorts in separate vehicle? What about at the football and basketball games? What about the cheerleading competitions?
This may be an idea with merit. But LaPierre has not thought this out very well, he has only scratched the surface.
And do Republicans want to spend money as LaPierre called for Congress to do?
indigo
December 21st, 2012
6:28 pm
jconservative – “and do Republicans want to spend money”
If it means raising taxes, especially on the rich, the answer is absolutely NO.
As they see it, parents can always have more kids, but the rich MUST be protected.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
6:30 pm
Big T — you said an armed guard is a deterrent. You’re right — an armed guard is a deterrent for sane robbers and other sane people but mass murderers are not sane and they don’t care if they are killed. They often commit suicide later so NO, an armed guard is NOT a deterrent. They wear a bullet proof vest only to ensure they murder people BEFORE they kill themselves.
AND HERE’s something no one sees:
A killer may take a hostage to PREVENT anyone from shooting back at them — THEN WHATCHA GONNA DO ? What would an armed guard do then?
Well, they wouldn’t shoot back.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
6:55 pm
AMX makes the BEST POINT of any poster yet.
The President of the USA has the best trained, best paid, thorough, ever-present ARMED security force and look what happened….
a sniper took a shot at Reagan and nearly killed Reagan.
Do we really think one or two armed guards at a school with 600 kids will prevent a tragedy?
You do?
You’re in denial.
Pride and Joy
December 21st, 2012
6:59 pm
TO AMX’s perfect point.
Reagan AND THREE MORE were shot and wounded.
Reagan had the best trained armed security in the USA and yet COULD NOT prevent the gunman, a lone gunman, from shooting FOUR people.
And some of you really think a cop or two at each school can protect 600 kids?
You still believe that?
What possible explanation could you have?
GCAE President
December 21st, 2012
7:03 pm
I am a gun owner, licensed, permit holding, and believer in our rights to own guns. It is our responsibility to use and store our weapons to keep everyone safe. As a teacher of 30+ years, I cannot imagine having to have this responsibility, even with training, in my classroom. I do not want the responsibility of “protecting” my class with a weapon, or the responsibility of storing it on my person or in my classroom with the possibility of it being taken/stolen by a student or someone else. I do propose that we continue to encourage all school districts to have their own security/police department, have professional security at all schools full time and provide procedures for all staff to follow in any case of violence and how to deal with situations. Local police should be versed on how to assist school police and there should be procedures in place for all to work together to ensure the safety of the children and staff.
We do not need more gun control, we need more crime control. Make sure the criminals do not and cannot get their hands on weapons. Chip all weapons, with information of the type it is, scan the whereabouts and if they come 100 yards of a school, investigate. The weapon does not walk by itself, does not get used by itself. If a person is not suppose to have a weapon, make sure they can’t get one. If a teen wants to make a statement, control the area that is off limits. We have the brain power and technology. Let’s use it!!!
AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES, STOP BLAMING ASPERGERS AND AUTISM FOR ANY OF THIS! There is no connection. These conditions are seen by a psychiatrist because they are brain chemical balance control that these doctors deal with. Let’s stop the blame game on these conditions. There are other circumstances that caused this young man to act in this way. Let’s find out all the information before we blame anything.
amx
December 21st, 2012
7:25 pm
Before LaPierre’s NRA press conference, they swept the crowd for guns. That’s right. They wanted to make sure their crowd was unarmed. If they really believed that having guns would protect them, then why wouldn’t they just protect themselves with their guns? It’s OK for our children to get shot down for the profits of the gun and ammo manufacturers, but let’s make sure those NRA leaders are protected.
A Teacher in Marietta
December 21st, 2012
7:31 pm
So many questions…not enough answers.
Security person: Who will pay for this? I ponder this on a day teachers are on furlough and at a school where we have no funds left for basics like copy paper.
Fortifying entrances: Would students never go outside for PE, recess or to the outdoor classroom? What about dismissal where 1,500 students leave to buses, cars and bicycles?
I don’t want to be armed nor do I want my kid’s teachers armed either. Cell phones go missing from teachers desks/purses on a regular basis. Think about the consequences should it be a weapon.
The only crime in my neighborhood was a break in to steal their guns. People who own guns are more likely to have them used against them rather than be protected by them. America must end this love affair with guns. We need stricter gun control laws now.
Tap Out
December 21st, 2012
7:40 pm
When it comes to protecting our children, guards in schools will only be a small band-aid. Are we also gonna mandate guards for all day care centers, chuck e cheese, and monkey joes? How about restaurants? We’ve had mass shootings in restaurants too. Should struggling small business owners spring for armed security? We need a national solution which is sensible and economically feasible..
Kris
December 21st, 2012
7:42 pm
amx…Wonder if the NRA leaders wore bullet proof vest’s?
incredulous
December 21st, 2012
7:50 pm
Do we truly want to militarize our schools? I have three children in school, am well trained with weapons, and the last thing I want is a compounded school. That Lapierre could be so thoroughly hypocritical amazes me. The debate still centers on effective mental health treatment and surveillance. If the NRA can pull this off, they’ll succeed in becoming a defacto arms dealer in our schools.
dcb
December 21st, 2012
7:51 pm
Armed guards at every school simply won’t work. Worse, they send the wrong message. There are too many doors and too many other access points at any large building to prevent a mentally unstable person from doing mayhem before one, or even a number of armed good guys could respond. If Lanza could blast his way through a locked glass secured door, he could likewise have blown away any armed guard before the guard would have had time to react. As to the message, what are we saying to our kids if the lesson that police are there to help us is the one we are trying to teach but must includes sidearms as part of the picture? I have the utmost respect for the NRA – but they have really missed the boat on this one. No response from them would have been better than provide armed security at every one of our schools in the country because the only way to stop a bad guy with guns is to have a good guy with guns.
gun sense
December 21st, 2012
7:57 pm
you want enlightenment become a buddist:
“And in order for most of us to sleep peacefully at night we have to be ignorant. Those of us who say peace and peace alone can withhold the violence of the world at bay are ignorant. Those of us who say flowers stop guns are ignorant. Those of us who say war is dead are ignorant.
But there are a few who choose to see the harsh truth, who choose to dirty their hands, and their hands alone, in silence, in order for our hands to not even be aware of what filth is. These beings choose to be as rough as the devils they face so that we can retain our softness.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.”
incredulous
December 21st, 2012
7:57 pm
So, let me get this straight; in order to protect us from guns, we need more guns. Is that right? Historically, this hasn’t worked out too well.
Dondee
December 21st, 2012
8:44 pm
Sounds like a god idea to me…
Woody
December 21st, 2012
9:08 pm
it would be a pretty boring job, kind of hard to keep the kind of edge required to get ahead of a young killer; and I do not think it would attract the kind of Bruce Willis hero that this scheme imagines. The cost per shooting averted would be astronomical, given the needle-in-a-haystack frequency of occurrence of this kind of shooting. Instead,I would rather see some effort made to change the popular culture. I would like to see some gun owners, perhaps some congressmen, publicly give up their guns in response to the tragedy. Its up to the young folks, mostly – they can make this change.
Ole Guy
December 21st, 2012
9:53 pm
Let us stop for just a moment and consider this thing from another angle. Any-and-all steps considered, from arming teachers and principals to “enhanced” SROs…whether we agree or not…all means one thing: relegating the principle of civil rights, to some degree. If one “perceives” a potential threat and one administers deadly force in reaction to this perception, just how are we, a (so-called) civilized society, to react. In the military, as in law enforcement, there are Rules Of Engagement/ROE, which rigidly govern the application of deadly force. Are we going to apply these rules to the educational arena; eventually any-and-all occupations which encompass public contact in any form. Pretty soon, we’ll be headed right back to the old western cowboy flicks where suspected cheating at the card game was justification for a duel at the bar. LISTEN UP, PEOPLE…DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT? As a young adult, I, along with a coupla hundred thousand of my generation, lived and “worked” within that very environment for much of our young lives. This is NO WAY for school kids to grow up; anyone thinking otherwise would do well to rethink the entire issue; perhaps even take a weapon, stand a post and conduct combat operations.
This entire situation…the sad events at Newtown…point out the screaming need to take the issue of mental incapacitation seriously.
During my short sojourn in the classroom, I saw some kids who, under existing law, had to be mainstreamed; placed in the same classroom as “normal” kids. Rather than commit resources to the problem, the powers that be preferred to confront otherwise “normal” kids with problems they chose to virtually ignore.
Lets look at another approach to the SRO “solution”. Just how effective have these folks been? Are SROs allowed to approach the sources of problems in the same manner they would approach these people on the street? I RATHER THINK NOT.
People, you DO NOT want your schools to become armed camps…not if you want your kids to gain a normal education. What happened at Newton is nothing short of atrocious; under the circumstances, nothing could have prevented that tragedy. All you can do, in response to this, is train/teach your kids the importance of situational awareness. These kids will then grow up to be responsible adults who, while conducting the day-to-day business of living, will be able to take the necessary actions to prevent another Newtown…WITHOUT FEAR OF SOMEBODY SECOND GUESSING THEIR DECISIONS.
10:10 am
December 21st, 2012
9:59 pm
How do Israeli teachers go about preventing such tragedies? … http://blnnewsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/7-28-3.jpg
Violence abounds
December 21st, 2012
10:04 pm
The fact that we can’t keep drugs or weapons out of adult prisons should clearly show why we will never be able to keep them out of the children’s prisons. The best solution would be to close these prisons, open up a truly free market in education, strongly encourage homeschooling and the creation of new private options, and solve two problems at once. Thanks to the “gun free schools” act we now have kids who aren’t learning anything acting as sitting ducks for crazed shooters. Time to realize that government run anything is a problem and a magnet for violence and immorality. Time to embrace the free market and individual liberty (including the right to defend oneself).
a no brainer requires a brain
December 21st, 2012
10:30 pm
An armed officer posted at the door of every school in the US is no match for a lunatic armed with an assault weapon and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Will only make the school less safe because it will create a false sense of security and cause staff and students to let their guards down. Changing how we deal with mentally ill adults; a ban on assault weapons; requiring background checks on all weapon purchases and transfer of ownership documentation for second hand purchases is a good start.
The Deal
December 21st, 2012
10:32 pm
Columbine had an SRO. Anyone” Bueller? Bueller?
5.5 billion is going to come from where?
Fed Up
December 21st, 2012
10:43 pm
Lots of banks have armed guards but people still rob them. How many heists have those bastions of security actually thwarted? More guns is an obscene solution.
The Kid
December 21st, 2012
11:14 pm
There’s an old, old saying;’ You reap what you sow’, and I’m old enough to have realized this to be true.The N.R.A. would have us beleive that sowing more guns will avert the continued slaughter of our children. As a people we must make a collective decision as to where we want America to go. These people actually would rather make money than to slow the violence in this country. Blood on your hands N.R.A. The fear these people use to perpetuate the buying of these wapons is shameful. Yes; America is in a state of fear. Fear of each other. Fear of our differences. Fear of change. These factors allow for the exploitation of people who are ignorant to the politics of divide and conquer. This has been done since the inception of this country. America is seen as anything but a Christian nation. Evil rules because good people stand back and do nothing or feel that they don’t have the power to do anything. Collectively tho’ we can move mountains. We can change this country for the better.
Ole Guy
December 21st, 2012
11:53 pm
Let’s also take a view of reality on the SRO:
To begin with, the very presence of these folks…the very NEED for their existence on the high school campus, spells a problem far bigger than the mere presence of the “smiling” SRO. Having a need for an SRO, in my opinion, is tantamount to “solving” the problem of a hole in the tire by operating the air pump faster.
Someone, in a previous blog, identified his/her SRO as (my own words) a bud…I believe the word “smile” was employed in describing this individual. Maybe I’m too Old School to be understood; for my sentiment to be appreciated…those in authority are NOT supposed to be LIKED…they’re supposed to be FEARED AND RESPECTED. Now I am quite certain this very concept is both foreign and completely rejected by a generation (to include both young and perhaps even middle-aged adults) which knows little-to-no self respect; self discipline.
These words are definitely not new; the drum roll continues. But let me tell you something, people…after bearing witness to the horror the Nation saw at Newtown, we better start considering the possibility that, perhaps, the Ole Guy just might be on to something. Call it tough love…call it whatever you want, but we better stop pissing around with these kids; STOP trying to be their buds. IF, in the process of approaching these kids as RESPONSIBLE future adults…NOT perpetual babies…they look upon the adult world in awe and…as buds, well and good. The very FIRST thing these kids need to develop is a healthy sense of FEAR and ultimate RESPECT. Without that fear, everything else is simply fluffy feel good nonsense.
Spartacus
December 22nd, 2012
12:12 am
Norway has strict gun control laws….that didn’t stop that smart lunatic from killing over 50 kids, now did they?
Does an armed guard guarantee that he would have prevented this smart lunatic from killing the kids in Newtown? No, but could have disabled him….don’t know, now do we? Depend on how courageous the guard is, how good a shot he is, etc. But at least he would have had a fighting chance….unlike these defenseless victims.
Fact is, if a smart lunatic wants to kill people, he WILL get the guns somehow, and kill people.
And where is the outrage against all of the glorified violence in Hollywood movies, Xbox, etc? Movies like Pulp Fiction and Django that seem to desensitize violence for our youth??
Spartacus
December 22nd, 2012
12:15 am
It’s also well established that SSRI’s and other psychotropic meds given to young people for various reasons causes a slightly increased risk for suicide…..Is it that much of a stretch that these drugs given to young people might cause them to commit homicide???
bootney farnsworth
December 22nd, 2012
12:17 am
big ups for P&J/Good Mother for finding an exception to use as a dismissive tool.
bootney farnsworth
December 22nd, 2012
12:18 am
everything in life has risk. if you want complete safety, commit suicide. nothing can hurt you when you’re dead.
Kujohn
December 22nd, 2012
12:55 am
Spartacus you are just a lier or an idiot
Japan violent movies. Very violent movies very violent video games
Gun murders per year is 11 gun deaths per year
Gun policy no guns
USA
10,000 gun deaths per year
Gun policy guns for everyone
Do us a favor
Shut Up
Timmy
December 22nd, 2012
1:07 am
It’s such a tricky subject … the conservatives complain that the public education system indoctrinates students to a libleral dogma, but then they want to arm the liberal teachers?
South Georgia
December 22nd, 2012
1:07 am
One of our coaches was a Ranger before becoming a PE teacher. I know 20 parents in Connecticut who would have prayed for a highly trained person like him to have been in their school with a weapon before their children started hitting the floor.
Kujohn
December 22nd, 2012
2:08 am
Good NRA talking points South Georgia 20 children are dead because people like you
Mary Elizabeth
December 22nd, 2012
7:05 am
President Obama stated the following words a the prayer vigil at Sandy Hope Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, December 16, 2012:
———————————————————————–
“This is our first task — caring for our children. It’s our first job. If we don’t get that right, we don’t get anything right. That’s how, as a society, we will be judged.
And by that measure, can we truly say, as a nation, that we are meeting our obligations? Can we honestly say that we’re doing enough to keep our children — all of them — safe from harm? Can we claim, as a nation, that we’re all together there, letting them know that they are loved, and teaching them to love in return? Can we say that we’re truly doing enough to give all the children of this country the chance they deserve to live out their lives in happiness and with purpose?
I’ve been reflecting on this the last few days, and if we’re honest with ourselves, the answer is no. We’re not doing enough. And we will have to change. . . .
We can’t accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we’re powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?
All the world’s religions — so many of them represented here today — start with a simple question: Why are we here? What gives our life meaning? What gives our acts purpose? We know our time on this Earth is fleeting. We know that we will each have our share of pleasure and pain; that even after we chase after some earthly goal, whether it’s wealth or power or fame, or just simple comfort, we will, in some fashion, fall short of what we had hoped.
We know that no matter how good our intentions, we will all stumble sometimes, in some way. We will make mistakes, we will experience hardships. And even when we’re trying to do the right thing, we know that much of our time will be spent groping through the darkness, so often unable to discern God’s heavenly plans.
There’s only one thing we can be sure of, and that is the love that we have — for our children, for our families, for each other. . . .
God has called them all home. For those of us who remain, let us find the strength to carry on, and make our country worthy of their memory.
May God bless and keep those we’ve lost in His heavenly place. May He grace those we still have with His holy comfort. And may He bless and watch over this community, and the United States of America.”
—————————————————————————————-
When President Obama said we must change, I believe he was talking about our fostering a change in our national consciousness as much as fostering a change in how we protect our schools. Below are the words written by one of the greatest agents of change for the better, in America’s history, who was himself the victim of an assassin’s bullet. May God grant us the grace, love, and wisdom, as Americans, to elevate our national consciousness, above all.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.”
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther KIng, Jr.
Pride and Joy
December 22nd, 2012
8:13 am
South Georgia, let’s suppose your trained coach was at that CT school.
Let’s see what would have happened: the shooter would have blown through the locked security door and made his way into the classroom to mow down the kids. Very soon your guy would run to get his weapon, unlock the weapon, load it if he needed to be and then ran to where the shooting was…and then likely would have shot the shooter before the police arrived…
BUT…
the children are still dead, South Georgia.
A gunman always has the element of surprise. Gunmen don’t send engraved invitations with the date, time and dress code for the planned murders.
They catch people like you, your coach, and our childre off guard.
So even though “your guy” might have shot the shooter, he wouldn’t have been there loaded and ready and pointing his gun at the shooter before the shooter arrived because he wouldn’t have known…
See?
An armed gunman can NEVER prevent a tragedy.
Just like ROnald Reagan.
Ronald’s armed and loaded crew were loaded and ready and expecting trouble and they STILL COULD NOT PREVENT THE TRAGEDY!
Even though they were there and armed and ready a lone shotter shot FOUR PEOPLE before he was caught. If we cannot prvent FOUR ARMED AND READY people from being mowed down, including our own President, how can a coach who is busy teaching his class be expected to prevent a tragedy where 600 kids are scattered in many different rooms in likely more than one building with open windows?
You are not facing facts.
You are in denial because you just love your guns more than you care about people.
This is Mrs. Norman Maine
December 22nd, 2012
9:12 am
Wow, so the schools don’t have money for quality teachers, programs, books or school nurses but you can find the money for armed guards. Priorities?
gun sense
December 22nd, 2012
9:17 am
@Pride
lets say an armed guard in at the front office with the one entry way to the school heard the gunfire to get into the school; much like the principal did when she heard the shots and instead of defensless lunge. Before the shooter gets fully into the building the armed guard starts shooting back and you have to remember he is wearing body armor also. The armed gaurd forces the shooter back out the entry-way because he is a 120lb coward looking to kill children. the shooter trips over the door cause he can’t handle the weight he is carrying, lands on his butt, and the armed gaurd gets a shoot off directly to the head and bam its over. Zero kids mudered. The what if game you are trying to play is getting old. In your community, you preach that and I hope the best for you.
BUT, I know my guns will not be taken; because of this little thing called the second amendment; much like the first amendment is used here letting you say what you believe. And its okay, we will both use the constitution that has benefitted all Americans over time.
If you want another what if I can give one: Shooter runs up to bullet proof glass tries to break through and bullet bounces off the glass, off the building and into the shooters head shooters dead
Dr. John Trotter
December 22nd, 2012
9:23 am
The Hollywood producers and financiers make movies and videos with gratuitous violence and then they become so “righteous” in their disbelief that impressionable youth mimic the movies and videos. It is all money-driven. I know it. They know it. You ought to know it. The Hollyweenies get on soap boxes to preach against guns…as their entourage tote several pieces to “protect” them. Hypocrisy to the max.
Yes, arm some of the school personnel and put police officers in each school. I wrote about the other day.
http://www.georgiateachersspeakout.com
Private Citizen
December 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
If you gave every teacher a rifle, they’d probably mass and surround the DOE and say “No more Race to the Top!” But that sort of thing is only in gothic movies. With horses. And catapults.
PJ
December 22nd, 2012
10:36 am
Believe in gun control or not, your choice. But when you are the victim of crime, who is the first person you call? Someone with a gun.
drew (former teacher)
December 22nd, 2012
10:48 am
I’m not a gun owner, and whenever the NRA comes up with some idea my first instinct is that it’s politically motivated. But the posters here who cannot see the benefits of this idea (or some variation as presented by other “thinking” posters here) are blinded by their own politics/ideology.
What in the world has happened to common sense? Seems some people are more interested in winning a debate about gun control than protecting the lives of school children.
janet
December 22nd, 2012
1:53 pm
First of all, I am sad that no one is talking about what I believe is a larger problem than guns… and that is how we care for our mentally ill in this country. It is a BIG problem, why isn’t anyone talking about it.
Second, I have a first grader and do not want to send her to an armed prison camp everyday. To me, THAT would be infringing on our rights more than taking away military assult weapons.
I personally think that people calling for ALL guns to be outlawed are irrational. I believe the OVERWHELMING majority of people do not agree with that at all, myself included. It truly is not fair to blame everything on guns/NRA… and to be honest, I do not hear most people saying “take away all guns”… but that seems to be what gun owners hear. However, there is and should be room for conversation, compromise, and modification of our existing laws and culture.
For a while, it seems we were willing to live with the threat of mass shootings under the guise that they were “random” and “rare”. But the number of mass shooting just this year alone averaged more than 1 per month. THAT is not rare/random. What happened on Friday is NOT acceptable and SOMETHING has to change. I believe the answer is multi-pronged. Changes SHOULD involve not only guns/gun laws, but also our treatment of Mental Health in this country, as well as to our increasing culture of violent and visceral movies and video games. No one thing is to blame and no one thing will solve the problem. There will always be violent crime, true, but that is no reason to have complete and total inaction. Change is not a bad thing. We need to pull people away from the far left/liberal side and pull people away from the far right/conservitve side and compromise on this one. Our lives depend on it.
I told my husband that I feel like this tragedy in Newtown affected me as much as 9/11 did/does. A popular argument seems to be that more people die in car accidents than mass shooting, but yet we don’t outlaw cars. This is true. It is also true that more people die in car accidents than from terrorism (inside the U.S), and yet we were willing to compromise some of our rights and liberties for the overall safety of our population.
What made 9/11 different is that it was an ATTACK on us and on on the ideals that we consider to be good and decent. When large groups of people are killed to make a point, no matter how insane or irrational the point may be… that is an ATTACK. To me, these “not so random and rare” mass shootings (with the killing of little kids being the straw that broke the camel’s back) feels like an attack. It’s an attack on things we consider to be good and decent staples of our society. Movie Theaters, Malls, and Elementary Schools… it doesn’t get much more “American Pie” than that. I believe we can make changes, if we want to without desecrating the absolute rights of any particular group (gun owners or the mentally ill).
Lee
December 22nd, 2012
2:37 pm
NY Gov Cuomo says “confiscation / forced sale to the state” could be an option.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=0
And THAT my friends is why the NRA and other gun advocacy groups are so set against any type of registration scheme by the government. You get a list of weapons and owners and the next step is very easy. Folks like Cuomo see “reasonable” gun control legislation as merely the first step.
————————————-
Information is starting to trickle in about Adam Lanza. How he once gave a class presentation without saying a word. How his mother warned the babysitter to “not turn your back on him”. This kid has been batshit crazy all his life. But yet, thanks to IDEA and other special education laws, the school plopped him down next to the general student population.
Special education. Those are the laws that need looking at.
————————————–
BTW, the NRA is right on this one. Deal with the threat.
Kujohn
December 22nd, 2012
3:09 pm
Yes PJ
You call the police.
The only people that should have guns besides the military
Also please explain why you need a assault rifle that shoots 4 bullets per second
Sure u have a good answer
Kujohn
December 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
All these great American Rambos on line
Wonder if they would be worrying about their liberty an freedom to own an assault rifle
If their child was laying on the school floor covered in his own blood an guts
For over 24 hrs
Bet their are at least 20 parents who wish we had gun control laws ( like every other developed country in the world)
janet
December 22nd, 2012
4:11 pm
I read on a blog earlier today that maybe some aftermath photos of the Newtown victims bullet riddled bodies laying there ripped to shreds in pools of blood should be released to the public so we can truly see what we are talking about when we say the words “Mass Shooting”. Only then could we truly discuss the risk vs rights.
The writer talked about how the release of Emmett Till photos helped mobalize the civil rights movement. The word racism had been used so often that it almost felt numb to hear it, but that photo of the murdered man beaten to a pulp, eye gouged out helped put a true cost to the word racism.
Pride and Joy
December 22nd, 2012
4:39 pm
Gun sense — nice try. Here’s the rest…
Whatcha gonna do when:
A. The kids go to the playground to play outside. Anyone with a scope can pick off kids at a distance without even being seen such as the VA killer with his teenaged sidekic.
B. The kids exit the building to load onto buses.
C. The kids are waiting at the bus stop to load onto or getting off of the buses..plural.
Go ahead.
I’m listening.
Dr. Monica Henson
December 22nd, 2012
6:31 pm
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” This is a very simple statement of fact that should govern the discussion at the national, state, and local decision making levels. By the time the police are notified, they are minutes, often many minutes away. Every brick and mortar school in the United States should have armed guards. And those guards should be highly trained law enforcement personnel and/or military veterans. The stakes are simply too high not to provide armed protection to our most precious resource.
bleeding liberal
December 22nd, 2012
6:46 pm
Why should people have access to an assault weapon? Why should they have an access to unlimited amount of ammunition? Why isn’t the NRA discussing those issues?
gun sense
December 22nd, 2012
7:09 pm
@Kujo
yea, if you want to call me an American Rambo its cool: I was in the military and yea I did go to war. I am an oath keeper; I will defend the constitution. What the topic should be on is school security. For some reason some have turned this into a second amendment debate and its not. The second amendment exist and its not going away. Much like the frist amendment, no one here wants to do away with that one.
Folks there are already armed teachers in our country, deal with it. I am not saying thats what should be in your community but it is working in other parts of the country. I know I will talk to my local school board and recommend an all of the above plan: armed guards, armed teachers, one way school entry, etc… Now I know we are not going to use all of them, but I am comfortable with education professionals and law enforcement working together to provide a safe and secure enviroment with input from the community to see what is acceptable for that area. I am not going to be someone that insults teachers and say they could not defend a school or students.
If you do not like your school security plan; change it or move your child to one that is comfortable for you simple as that. And remember there is always homeschooling.
William Casey
December 23rd, 2012
7:28 am
I was in charge of the school security plan for Chattahoochee High School back in the ’90’s. I’m a great believer in having armed, sworn school Resource Officers with full police powers on every campus. However, I don’t believe that it’s realistic to believe that they would have much effect on the insane, armed-to-the-teeth mass killer UNLESS we are willing to convert our schools into armed fortresses with one way in and out. Even if we did that, what’s to prevent insane killers from targeting day care centers? Not the solution to THIS problem.
Parent Teacher
December 23rd, 2012
11:52 am
I will start by saying I am not in favor of restrictions on “Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines”, or any other fire arms.
There are over 100 million fire arms in the US. Let’s say that all new production/sale of all weapons are banned today, that does nothing for all the legally owned guns currently in our country.
What is an “assault rifle?” According to the pervious ban, the Brady Bill, any fire arm that contained more than two of the following characteristics was labled an assault rifle. 1. Collapsable stock 2. Bayonet lug allowing a bayonet to be attached, 3. Removable flash suppressor, fixed was permited 4. Semi automatic 5. Detachable magazine. If it contained two or less, it was not an assault rifle. I was able to purchase an AR15 during the ban that had a 30 rd detachable magazine, with a fixed flash suppressor, no bayonet, semi automatic and a fixed stock. This weapon was considered not to be an assault rifle by the ban. The ban was pointless political crap. It did nothing to prevent the illegal possesion of any weapon by criminals and did not slow the sale of semi automatic rifles just like the one used in CT.
Let us never forget that all of this is irrelevant when it comes to criminals wanting to obtain weapons of any type. Criminals will get the weapons if they want them period.
I teach in a High School and there are many deadly weapons laying around the school. There were 20+ students stabbed recently in an elementary school in an Asian country. Don’t remeber exactly where but I believe it was on the same day as the CT shootings.
Parent Teacher
December 23rd, 2012
11:55 am
To those who talk about the SRO at the school in Columbine, the policy of SROs at the time was to secure the perimeter and wait for back up. They were not to engage the shooters. Now the process has been changed. The SRO is to move directly to the shooting and engage/neutralize the shooter.
You can’t compare apples and oranges other than to say they are round. Tactics and senarios have changed since the mid 90’s.
Parent Teacher
December 23rd, 2012
12:07 pm
What can be done.
Prevent the illegal sale of weapons
Have some mechanism to prevent people with mental disorders that have the propensity for violence from obtaining weapons.
Provide a well trained SRO for each school. Many schools already have SROs.
Train teachers in appropriate procedures including techniques that could be used to neutralize a shooter without a fire arm. Could pepper spray have been used by the principle when the shooter first entered? What are some other no fire arm techniques?
Provide secure doors on classrooms that can’t be shot through. We did this for planes as soon as possible after 9/11. The former TSA director has publically stated that knives and even fire arms could be allowed by passengers on planes.
Have secure entrances for visitors where they don’t have access to other parts of the school without first entering the office.
These are a few items that have been discussed and all ideas should be on the table. But weapon bans will not be effective. How many shootings took place between 1994 and 2004 during the last ban. Bans are not effective, it only drives legitimate people underground.
Ronin
December 23rd, 2012
9:34 pm
Interesting piece in the article: “We urge involvement by parents, cafeteria staff, janitorial staff, counselors, nurses and even students, as appropriate.”
Do they expect the janitor to throw a mop at the gunman?
Rick at 2:17, you always bring interesting commentary to this blog.
The the NRA rep is correct, the best way to deter a gunman is to have a deterrence.
We have armed police officers on guard at schools and most everyone is fine with that.
The armed volunteers should be subject to the same background check, mental profile and some of the same field training as regular officers.
Four months ago on this blog we were debating the need/value of Charter schools, today we are trying to find the best way to protect those who are most vulnerable.
Dr. Monica Henson
December 23rd, 2012
10:06 pm
Ronin, janitorial, cafeteria, & maintenance staff in a brick and mortar school are as likely as any administrator, and far more likely than a teacher in a classroom, to see an intruder. They are also privy to student conversation and observe a lot of kids throughout the day. They are sometimes even the one adult that a student feels connected to and might confide in. Drug busts and thwarting an attack can come from a student who has overhead something telling a trusted adult. Any school safety plan worth its salt includes all of the staff who come into contact with kids.
Mandella1099
December 23rd, 2012
10:53 pm
@ The Deal: “Columbine had an armed SRO on that day. That really helped them.”
The country also had a ban on assault weapons then – that really helped as well…
Mandella1099
December 23rd, 2012
10:55 pm
@ bleeding liberal: “Why should people have access to an assault weapon? Why should they have an access to unlimited amount of ammunition? Why isn’t the NRA discussing those issues?”
Why shouldn’t they?
Sharon K. Snow
December 24th, 2012
2:46 am
The NRA wants us to pay for armed guards in all our schools, have they seen the deficit? They want us to foot the bill for them, so they can keep selling the kinds of weaponry that average citizens do not need for self defence or to hunt with. Read: “the History of the NRA/ALEC Gun Agenda”, read “What is ALEC?”, watch Bill Moyers documentary on PBS “The United States of ALEC” You will find that the ultimate agenda of ALECs is to change the laws of the USA, one state at a time! The NRA has already sold us the bill of goods, that gun control is against the constitution, when it doesn’t say we have the right to keep rapid fire weapons that can kill tiny children and the people who loved them, enmass!!! They don’t want ANY gun taken away and it is all about $$$ for the CORPORATIONS that make their living off any gun related item, it is about $$$ and not the saftey of any human being, we are expendable!!!! Unfortunately, I don’t think gun control is a possibility, It’s being talked about, as usual, in the heat of the moment, but I’ll bet the powers to be do not know any more as to what to do about it, than I do. There are also, lots of Democrats who want to keep all weapons, but, I live in Montana, where we don’t use rapid fire weapons to hunt with, I hope!!
Sharon K. Snow
December 24th, 2012
3:02 am
After reading all these blogs, I have to wonder, where do we go next, armed guards in our movie theaters, our malls, all over our college campuses, all over the areas where gang shootings are prevelent, where does it stop? I am surprised that we have any tourist traffic in our country, we are such a violent nation!!! It seems at times this country has gone stark raving mad!! Unless I missed it, why didn’t the school in Newtown have an alarm system, (the fire department was right there)banks have silent alarms,and where were the cameras?! Again lets have those armed guards when the NRA says they will foot the bill, it’s their product used in these killings!!!!
David Granger
December 24th, 2012
10:58 am
Maureen, I think we need to do several things to make the schools as safe as possible:
1. The NRA’s recommendation that we have an armed police officer at every school is not unreasonable. It would be expensive, but it would help. There has been NO incident in this country where a school shooter took a gun away from a security guard and used it in a crime. And there have been cases (the Appalachian State Law School shooting; the Pearl, Mississippi shooter; the Utah mall shooting) where an armed person stopped the shooter. In the Newtown shooting, that brave principal ran toward the sound of the gunfire and got close enough to lunge at Adam Lanza before he shot her. Imagine if she had been able to pull a riot-gun type shotgun out of the closet before running to confront Lanza. If she got close enough to lunge at him, she’d have been close enough to fill him with buckshot, and who knows how many childrens’ lives that would have saved? And keep in mind, we use armed security guards at OTHER situations to control violence: at the doors of courthouses, whenever the President makes an appearance, at the gates/doors of sports arenas, at airports, at banks. They don’t manage to stop every shooting, but they sure have stopped SOME.
2. We also need to be more aware of the mentally ill. Trouble is, many parents (and school systems, as well) are more worried about the rights of a few mentally ill students than they are the rest of the student body. The attitude seems to be “these kids aren’t going to have much of a life, so we should at least let them be in the regular classrooms so they’ll feel as normal as they can”…no matter how disruptive they may be, even to the point of being violent.
3. And yes, we need some restrictions on gun laws. We already have some reasonable restrictions…no automatic weapons, for example. And it’s not unreasonable to place limits on how many guns a person can buy in a given period, or to place limits on magazine capacities. Yes, it’s true that it only takes a few seconds to switch out magazines…but a few seconds can be a big difference in some situations.) And the gun-show loophole (which is really more accurately defined as the “private sale” loophope) deserves to be fixed, so that we can make sure criminals don’t get their hands on guns. (Yes, I know that most shootings have been carried out with guns that were legally obtained…but still.)
We need to do a number of different things if we’re going to ensure that our schools be as safe as possible. And just because some people hate the NRA, it doesn’t mean that their recommendation was wrong…it’s not. It just doesn’t go far enough.
Pride and Joy
December 24th, 2012
2:55 pm
Very well said “Any school safety plan worth its salt includes all of the staff who come into contact with kids.”
ECC
December 25th, 2012
11:53 am
I teach at a HS with 2 SRO’s, they are REALLY good and LEVEL-HEAED but they might be assigned
to a different school next year or they might stay put. Who knows… In the meantime, no outer doors are looked, anyone is free to come and go (all there is to stop them is a SIGN that instructs ppl to use the main entrance…Seriously!). Our school has history of gang activity but we all know someone who is in a gang RIGHT NOW. There should be metal detectors, locked ouside-doors, buzzer and cameras to monitor entrance/exit. Staff should be trained in EFFECTIVE EMERGENCY SOP’s besides the stupid firedrills. We need to have communication plans in place (Try using the school wide PA to announce there is a gang fight going on in Hall A (or an armed intruder!) and let me know how it goes!
gun sense
December 25th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Deal an others
I have read the report: http://www.state.co.us/columbine/Columbine_20Report_WEB.pdf ·
all those politicans going on TV are not stating the facts correctly. The SRO was away from campus and recieved a call to return to campus: He never entered the BUILDING while the shooting was taking place. NO, officers entered. The police stayed in the parking lot to “cover” the paramedics.
Because of Columbine they rewrote the rules that police are to enter to engage any active shooters.
I find it very troubling that I watched several news talk shows with talking heads saying quite a different story.
Bend the story the way you want to hell with the facts
Read the report
CJae of EAV
December 26th, 2012
7:39 am
The suggestion by the head of the NRA to outfit every school with an armed guard seems quite self serving and abit short-sighted. The operating expense alone involved with local district staffing to a sufficient level to implement the idea is enough to sink the idea (the short sighted part). But I imagine it would be quite a boon for gun makers who would open up a very profitable new sales channel (the self serving part).
marm
December 26th, 2012
3:19 pm
Everyone has to remember that the guy in Noway and the DC snipers did what they did without going inside. These people didn’t just get up one day and decide to kill as many as possible, so arming everyone inside a school wouldn’t stop them if they are determined. There needs to be a serious conversation, and it doesn’t just mean arming everyone, or creating a database of everyone who is deemed “mentally ill”.
Lynn
December 29th, 2012
11:59 pm
Putting a SRO in every school sounds like a great idea but how many schools have only one to get in? Can we expect an officer to cover all these doors? I agree with everyone that has said we need to educate more and come up with a way to get semi automatic weapons out of the picture as said above no one needs these for hunting or protection.