Should Dunwoody have its own schools? Should cities be allowed to break from county systems?
Should communities be permitted to revolt against their county school systems and create their own school districts?
Legally, it would likely require a change to the state Constitution, which now forbids any new independent school systems. (I added the text of the state Constitution to a comment that I made below. Some of you are questioning the existence of city school systems such as Decatur and Dalton, but those systems predate the constitutional prohibition.)
But we may see a push for such a change in the wake of DeKalb’s problems with SACS.
Mike Davis, the mayor of Dunwoody, just wants out.
Davis said he believes nearly all Dunwoody residents want to separate from the DeKalb school system, and it’s something his city council is openly discussing. They are likely to ask state lawmakers in January for a measure — probably involving an amendment to the state constitution — that would let cities without school systems create their own.
“I think the system is too big, too corrupt,” Davis said of DeKalb. “Are we disappointed? Yes. Are we disgusted? Yes.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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170 comments Add your comment
jarvis
December 19th, 2012
8:59 am
@Edugator, the 80’s were a long time ago.
Tancred
December 19th, 2012
9:03 am
How can a metro area have such an entrenched culture of incompetence on so many levels? Clayton, Fulton, Dekalb, City of Atlanta; all so dysfunctional and corrupt, it almost defies belief. And on the same day that the AJC has articles about Dekalb schools loosing their accreditation and Fulton “Science Academy” having their charter revoked, they place a fluff piece in the editorial section that claims Atlanta is some kind of technology “ecosystem,” whatever that means. If it is an ecosystem, it is one that supports a small population of privileged college grads while public schools are polluted with entitled bHow can a metro area have such an entrenched culture of incompetence on so many levels? Clayton, Fulton, Dekalb, City of Atlanta; all so dysfunctional and corrupt, it almost defies belief. And on the same day that the AJC has articles about Dekalb schools loosing their accreditation and Fulton “Science Academy” having their charter revoked, they place a fluff piece in the editorial section that claims Atlanta is some kind of technology “ecosystem,” whatever that means. If it is an ecosystem, it is one that supports a small population of privileged college grads while public schools are polluted with entitled bureaucrats that care little for anything but their next paycheck and a secure pension. And the new supply of entitled workers lines up with their diploma mill credentials and the whole thing starts all over again. Why would a graduate from Georgia Tech or Emory want to stay in this area? Why wouldn’t Dunwoody want it’s own schools?
Susie Squaw
December 19th, 2012
9:04 am
In schools inthe south…more diversity = more problems in school, worse leadership
skipper
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
How can the population be so stupid as to elect incompetant people time and time again and then rant and rave about how things are going. To the dummies (yes, dummies) who voted in these buffoons, you are getting what you asked for; what in the world would make you think anything different? And you think folks who actually care about a real education should sent their kids into this cluster? This is why when people look at this nasty system years from now they will say: I thought it could not get worse, but it did!”
samantha
December 19th, 2012
9:11 am
Cities should not be allowed to break from counties without EVERYONE that reside in that county voting on it. NOT the people that reside in that particular area. Dunwoody should not have it’s own school system. The only way they should be allowed to have their own school system is if they did not use ANY Government money to do so. Other than that, NO.
bootney farnsworth
December 19th, 2012
9:11 am
back in the early 70s, DCSS was the gold standard for how to run a system and educate kids. people moved from all over the state to have their kids in DCSS..
40 + years later, DCSS is a complete joke.
samantha
December 19th, 2012
9:19 am
skipper you are such a racist trailor trash idiot! You really need to go back to school, complete elementary school and GET EDUCATED! You sound like the FOOL you are. Get off the couch in your trailor and GO BACK TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. You bufoon!
Betsy Parks
December 19th, 2012
9:20 am
I’ve started the petition “Governor Nathan Deal and Georgia State Board of Education: Review SACS findings, if accurate REPLACE the Dekalb County School Board. ” and need your help to get it off the ground.
Will you take 30 seconds to sign it right now?
Please share with your friends!
http://www.change.org/petitions/governor-nathan-deal-and-georgia-state-board-of-education-review-sacs-findings-if-accurate-replace-the-dekalb-county-school-board
DagnyT
December 19th, 2012
9:24 am
Yes, I’ve told friends moving into the area to avoid Dunwoody because DeKalb is on its way to losing accreditation. They would be taking a huge risk buying anywhere in DeKalb right now. Dunwoody is a nice area and they would like to live there. A city school system would improve property values there and attract young families communities desire.
DagnyT
December 19th, 2012
9:27 am
Maureen- I asked this question of you a few months ago too. Birmingham did something similar when forced busing came along. Now the suburban districts are tops in the state and the parents have a lot of input in how things go. They also have nationally ranked athletic teams, band and orchestra programs. I don’t see a downside to Dunwoody having its own system, other than it might cost more in taxes. It would be cheaper than having to send your kids to private schools because DeKalb was no longer accredited.
Blue dog
December 19th, 2012
9:29 am
Local control of public schools is the problem. All schools should be ran under the same administration, under “statewide” authority.
The entire public school system needs to be paid out of the “General State Treasury”, not with local property taxes. You change these two things and you eliminate disparity between local school systems and you also save a ton of money on non teacher salaries.
Think about the “other” state government…the state employees. Their personnel dept for the entire state is located in Atlanta (with a few sub offices located within departments).
There is no reason to have 150+ systems each having elected school boards and superintendents.
But, changes like these will never happen for two reasons…Parents think their kids will do better if they have control on the local level and The local euducrats will never promote a change that eliminates their jobs.
Decaturite
December 19th, 2012
9:33 am
FYI that the Superintendent of City Schools of Decatur earns WAY over $150,000! So our smaller school districts are not as frugal as those up North. I think all Superintendent positions should be lower paid–then we’d get leaders who are motivated by service, not by money, power, and politics.
Scott
December 19th, 2012
9:43 am
A Dunwoody school board would have its act together. The board failures are the reason that DeKalb County Shools are on probation. Personally, I don’t get why this SACS has been given so much power. Their reasons don’t ever cite anything having to do with quality of education. If the state is going to allow this private organization to cause so much damage to the citizenry, the state should give us the power to reorganize so that we aren’t paying the price for the actions of officials we don’t even have the power to elect. I am a parent of two elementary school children in Dunwoody. I have been happy enough with the schools, but I’d rather have a separate school system than have the schools lose accredidation because of corruption in other communities.
Beverly Fraud
December 19th, 2012
9:43 am
Clayton, Fulton, Dekalb, City of Atlanta; all so dysfunctional and corrupt, it almost defies belief.
Again and again we see The Four Horsemen of the Incompetence
Will anything short of educational Armageddon destroy the monolith?
Ashley
December 19th, 2012
9:43 am
Dunwoody should team up with Peachtree Corners and Duluth to form a new school system.
Change
December 19th, 2012
9:46 am
People always want to pull away from the situation instead of helping to come up with a solution…vote for somebody else next time, better yet run for the position yourself. Need we run continue to run from the problem?!?
bu2
December 19th, 2012
9:49 am
There’s very little downside to Dunwoody for having its own system. They not only have the high value homes, but also Perimeter Mall. Its the rest of the system and the state that would suffer for their benefit.
Education is ultimately a state responsibility, not local. That’s why the city/county issue is different. Counties aren’t supposed to be cities and that’s why metro Atlanta governments are such a mess. You have counties and cities suing each other when they represent many of the same people. Its beyond absurd.
But with schools, the state needs to make sure each district has a reasonable source of funding. Breaking off the wealthier sections of districts is bad for the rest. And noone is talking about breaking up Cobb or Gwinnett, which are larger than the grossly mismanaged APS, Dekalb and Clayton districts.
You also have to consider the domino effect. Should the constitution be changed, you would almost certainly see Brookhaven, Chamblee and a new city of Central Dekalb (which is being discussed) form their own systems. Only the poorest areas would be left in Dekalb.
bbb1467
December 19th, 2012
9:49 am
Dunwoody already has its own schools: Marist, Pius, Pace, Westminster, etc. If you can afford a house in Dunwoody, you can afford these. You just have to choose to buy a non-luxury car and keep it for five+ years instead of the new Lexus lease every one-two years, shop at Belk instead of Neiman Marcus, not have wine and coctails with meals at fancy restaurants, don’t spend $40 a week at Starbucks, don’t have every family member with an iPhone, etc. Most of the lip-service given to wanting “diversity” is just a way to rationalize spending the money on yourself (house, car, clothes, vacations, electronics) instead of your kids’ education.
CJae of EAV
December 19th, 2012
9:52 am
If there is truly a significant degree of galvenized community support behind the idea of a “Dunwoody School District”, why not simply use the existing charter school laws and convert those targeted schools to charter goverance using provisions in the existing laws. This would allow the “community” to direct the academic programs of these particular schools and their fiscal budgets without creating another alternate central office structure to suck up needless resources that should be going to the students.
No need for a state constitutional change if you go this route and the Dunwoody community truely will have the opportunity to put its money where its mouth is. All these efforts to splintering off simply creates mini thiefdom’s to replace the monolithic one that already exists.
G
December 19th, 2012
9:55 am
i guess if they can’t secede from the Union, they need to secede from something to get their rocks off!
bu2
December 19th, 2012
9:55 am
@Scott
This report condemned all the school board members. Its having attitudes similar to yours that enable people in other districts to blame it on other people’s board members. Everyone thinks, “Our guy is good. The problem is other people’s representatives.” Jester asks questions which is good, but she also doesn’t work well with the others and doesn’t seem to understand she is supposed to. That doesn’t mean she isn’t partly driven to that behavior by being excluded, but she does contribute to the problem. All 9 contribute. Some clearly more than others, some like Jester less, but they are all responsible.
Beverly Fraud
December 19th, 2012
9:55 am
“People always want to pull away from the situation instead of helping to come up with a solution…vote for somebody else next time, better yet run for the position yourself. Need we run continue to run from the problem?!?”
People want to pull away from institutional corruption and educational chaos?
Oh the horror!
seminole
December 19th, 2012
9:57 am
I live in Dekalb in an area with poor schools (thank goodness for private school choices) and I realize losing the schools in Dunwoody would hurt DCSS; however, I fully support the residents of Dunwoody creating their own school system. If they have the money and resources, why not leave a broken, dysfunctional, criminal system?
If I could sell my house and get out of unincorporated Dekalb, I’d gladly move to City of Decatur or City of Dunwoody to have access to better schools. I currently have no good choices when voting for school board members and I refuse to run myself, as I can’t stomach the nasty politics of some of the current board members.
I say Good Luck to Dunwoody!!
Inman Parker
December 19th, 2012
9:57 am
We seem to forget from time to time that government in our society is “of, by and for” the people. Taxpayer funded schools are a very large part of government, and when they cease to serve the public the public has the complete right to scrap the whole thing and start over. Including the Constitution. Now, the current DeKalb County School System, once the pride of all DeKalb Citizens, is a disgrace. Do the people have the right to start a new system. You’d better believe it, and state legislators better listen and pay attention. We can change them also.
DunMoody
December 19th, 2012
10:08 am
@bbb1467: gosh, if only your sweeping generalization about the deep pockets of Dunwoody residents were true. Sorry, but the majority of families in Dunwoody CANNOT afford those private school options. So we work very, very hard to make our public schools work, in spite of DeKalb’s dysfunctional oversight.
@edugator: The main reason DHS is still on the block schedule is the lack of funding for sufficient textbooks for students on any other scheduling model and the desire not to burden teachers any further than they already are by giving them 5 or 6 classes a day of up to 40 students per period. Again, a sweeping generalization that does not fit the reality.
George
December 19th, 2012
10:09 am
Well I think Dunwoody should have their own schools also,They should pay for the New High school ,Middle School,and elementary inn cash this summer and take them over say 100 million dollars.I agree and do your thing I can not wait nothing opens certain people eyes until something tragic happens and then you want the world to stop.Do it i say because you have more problems than you think you have right now i can not wait let me get my popcorn.
banderson
December 19th, 2012
10:16 am
No. Dunwoody can’t even decide how to redesign a quarter mile long road or build a path through a dog park. Dunwoody has some educated and pro-eductation residents, but they would be overwhelmed by the anti-education Tea Party group that sticks its nose in every facet of city business. In short, Dunwoody government is disfunctional and adding the responsibility of a school system would compound its problems exponentially.
skipper
December 19th, 2012
10:20 am
Samantha,
It is obvious by your rant and rave that you are satisfied with the present system, and you think it is fine. You are the buffoon. It does not, and never will, make one racist because that person or those persons do not want to participate in what even a vegetable like you MUST SEE is an incompetant system. Let folks form their own school…..and what solution do you have besides name calling? You must mean that dissatisfaction with the board members (which dog-gone near everyone on this blog has pointed out) is without merit.
George
December 19th, 2012
10:21 am
By the way Their are a lot of people living in South Dekalb that will make 75% of the people in Dunwoody wages look like a welfare case including my self people please don’t believe the hype
Private Citizen
December 19th, 2012
10:21 am
Absolutely. Question: If you made a new Dunwoody school system, obviously they would be legally tied to all of the weird mandates and testings and conflicted curriculum. This is the heart of the matter, the automatic required co-opting. And guess what, all of those “tests” are profiling children psychology and kept in database. The surveillance state is oh too real. Some lady from Pennsylvania took her state to court and found out about all of this stuff, difficult to access to, much resistance from her state and the federal. Much of it comes out of the Carnegie foundation. Point is: new school system? Sounds great. Co-opted into indenture following the norm, nothing independent about that at all.
Yesterday met a local professional has a 3rd grade daughter, said the math textbook is unreadable. Child’s teacher is showing burnout and says she had a method that worked well for teaching multiplication, but this year is required to do it according to the book and it is unworkable. Conclusion: the dissonance and dumbing down is real and down with strategy through forcing conflicted logic / brain scrambling for both teachers and kids.
A real “independent” Dunwoody school system would want to make attention to the “force requirements” that come with the title.
bbb1467
December 19th, 2012
10:24 am
DunMoody: Go over to Dunwoody high school and look at the cars in the parking lot…many of them are pretty new, Lots of higher end models form more expensive manufacturers. Look at the carpool lines at Austin and Vanderlyn with the Mercedes, Landrovers, etc. Think hard about it, and be honest with yourself. If it was REALLY your highest priority, you could afford an extra few hundred dollars a month to send your kid to a private school, but you CHOSE to live like you live, send your kid to a school that may soon be unacrredited, and then complain that the education is substandard. I chose to drive a twelve year old generic non-luxury foreign car, live in an old house for 25 years, not eat out at Buckhead/Midtown restaurants, and send my kid to private school.
Aquagirl
December 19th, 2012
10:26 am
If you want a small school system don’t move to a big county or city. The people in these little fiefdoms either need or want the surrounding densely populated area but don’t want to be bothered by the other folks who provide their standard of living. This is pretty much wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
If you don’t need/want a densely populated area you’re free to move to a small town where you don’t have to cope with big city problems. Problem solved.
Right these little cities are trying to escape problems by running away. No matter how fast you run those problems will always catch up to you, that’s a basic fact of life.
Maureen Downey
December 19th, 2012
10:27 am
@George, That would be the main stumbling block — the school campuses within Dunwoody were underwritten by the county and there would have to be some compensation. (Obviously, the share paid by Dunwoody property owners would somehow have to be figured and factored into the equation.)
Folks in Dunwoody who are not interested in the schools might balk at paying a hefty price to either buy or lease the facilities from DeKalb.
Maureen
Hamilton
December 19th, 2012
10:29 am
Dunwoody should pursue the Charter Cluster option. The Dunwoody cluster is already home to three successful conversion charter schools in Chesnut Charter School, Kingsley Charter School and Peachtree Charter Middle School. Those schools excel in raising student achievement with a very diverse student population. At the very least, Dunwoody parents should clamor for Dunwoody High to become a charter school. The shackles need to come off of the high school. Parents save their money by letting their students go to the elementary schools and PCMS then spring for the Marist/St. Pius/Wesleyan/Woodward/Holy Innocents, etc. education. Dunwoody Charter High School is needed. Going fully conversion charter in the cluster is the next best thing to the VERY EXPENSIVE prospect of an independent Dunwoody district.
Charter clusters do not require a constitutional amendment either. Dunwoody has its own core of experienced educational volunteers that could pull this off.
I hope Mike, Tom and Fran are listening. Baby steps, gentlemen.
Dunwoody Mom
December 19th, 2012
10:31 am
@Hamilton…conversion charters are still part of the DeKalb School System.
CTPAT
December 19th, 2012
10:45 am
Many of the school districts in the metro-area, Dekalb included, are too large and too diverse to be served by one model. If the district isn’t willing to self-split governance (and they can still share money based on the #s of students so that poorer areas get the same $$s), then any city should have the right and ability to consider starting their own system. That being said, we have a very complex educational and governmental history in the South and I would fully expect someone to file a lawsuit claiming that allowing the new cities to create their own school systems is some form of segregation. Any “new” system would be best to ensure that they meet certain diversity thresholds. For Dunwoody, although it has some limited parts that are racially and/or socially-economically diverse, if they pursue this goal, they may be better off trying to partner with other nearby municipalities, Chamblee, Brookhaven, Doraville, etc. who have greater diversity to ensure that they can show that they are serving a diverse community so that racism claims cannot be substantiated by the objectors.
Timmy
December 19th, 2012
10:54 am
Obviously, the DeKalb County BOE is broken. The race card will of course be played in an attempt to stop the City of Dunwoody; however, why should the citizen of Dunwoody be trapped by the corrupt DeKalb County BOE. Why not let them set up their own school system. I don’t think it could be worse than the system they are currently stuck with.
Hamilton
December 19th, 2012
11:01 am
@Dunwoody Mom,
I’m not stupid. I’m very aware that conversion charters are still part of DCSS. I have two children that have been in Dunwoody schools. One went to Catholic school then an independent private school until 8th grade. Then he went to DHS. There was a huge difference in quality of education. When he started at DHS, so did 200 NCLB transfers. Absolute anarchy ensued. School building exceeding capacity, scrambling for more faculty, textbooks and trailers.
The other child went to Chesnut Charter. Very good experience, nurturing and encouraged him and his classmates to excel. Sure, the superintendent caused a few problems during that time with administration, but the school and its council weathered that and the school got good academic results. You know that. My child had to endure the Dunwoody Elementary experiment and there was a huge difference in the quality of the educational experience. DES was new and it wasn’t a conversion charter. Now my child attends Peachtree Charter MS and by and large that is a well run school that gets results. Sure, there’s problems that we have documented pretty well in our local blogs. We overcome the issues that DCSS administration creates.
That all changes when my child starts at Dunwoody High next year. As much as you may be distressed with DCSS bureaucracy, going with the conversion charter makes sense because it can be done, the BOE has approved and renewed our local charters and while there are headaches with dealing with DCSS.. you know deep down that an independent Dunwoody School District is a tough sell and a long way off.
I stress doing what’s achievable. Dunwoody schools can achieve despite all of the failures of the Central brain trust. I know that you have been really active in our educational community and I appreciate it, so lets channel our energy into getting the charter high school and while we’re at it, improving Hightower Elementary. They’re part of our cluster community too and they have their own special challenges.
Mary Ann
December 19th, 2012
11:01 am
bb1467– my parents did the same thing as you for several years, and I was subjected to constant abuse from the wealthier students around me for being dropped off in that older car, for not wearing the latest designer labels, and being perceived as “poor” relative to these children of millionaries. When my parents were forced to switch me and my siblings to public school, they were anguished and worried, but it was the best possible thing that could have happened to me. Going to a good public school was like night and day; suddenly school was about learning and friendship and accomplishment instead of status and cutthroat competition. You might want to sit down with your kids and ask them if they are being treated as well as you hope they are by their wealthier counterparts.
Susan
December 19th, 2012
11:13 am
@bbb1467 – FWIW, the homes around Lakeside and Druid Hills are far more expensive than Dunwoody. Watch as Lakeside tries to form a city of “Oak Grove”? and Druid Hills annexes into Decatur. Nobody wants to be under the thumb of this corrupt, inept school system. There is no way to “correct” things when you are consistently outvoted by 5-4. Nancy Jester is outvoted on nearly every issue – that’s essentially taxation without representation.
Further, on the issue of ‘buying’ the buildings — certainly there is equity there that Dunwoody taxpayers already paid. Here’s an analogy: You go to Pizza Hut with 6 friends to share a pizza. You pay 1/6 of the price of the pizza for your slice. Then you decide to take your slice to go – but the others insist that you have to pay again in order to do so. It makes no sense. The citizens have already paid the price – and if the truth be told, the citizens of Dunwoody have probably subsidized some of the other schools around the county. Maybe if the funds were properly audited, the Dunwoody School System would start out with a credit balance!
catlady
December 19th, 2012
11:16 am
With the approval of the new state Charter Schools Commission, how does this square with the Geogia constitution on instituting new systems? If that approval overrules the earlier version of the state constitution, perhaps it also makes legal the ability of cities or other groups to have their own system? Perhaps, due to that vote, Dunwoody can go ahead.
Ed from Chamblee
December 19th, 2012
11:33 am
I love lunch room ladies, whatever creates more of them, I’m for.
FUBU
December 19th, 2012
11:41 am
Nobody wants to talk about the 900 lbs black elephant in the room! Voting has been hijacked by creating a “more diverse” voting district. Now we are left with a majority of “diverse” minorities running the schools, cities, counties, states, and federal governments.
Whites will continue to create their own utopia and they can afford it, too. Minorities will be welcomed as long as they are on the same economic and social levels.
People of economic means are tired of paying for others incompetence, regardless of their race, religion, or creed.
Money for Nothing, Chicks not Free
December 19th, 2012
11:46 am
Samantha, How’s life in south Dekalb?
DunMoody
December 19th, 2012
11:53 am
bbb1467 : Go over to DHS and see how many kids get on the buses. The nicer cars in the parking lot are the exception, not the rule. And I’m at DHS nearly every day, volunteering to support our school. Are you a drive-by observer or are you working to help our community have the best possible public education available? (I don’t need to defend my expenditures self-righteously, but that old car you’re driving is an intelligent choice many parents make who live in Dunwoody. Including our family.)
Eric Oliver
December 19th, 2012
11:55 am
Dunwoody is having problems managing a trail through a park … not comfortable with something really important like our children’s educations being in the hands of current leadership…. Too many CAVE (citizens against virtually everything) People in Dunwoody…..probably not a good idea
Rush
December 19th, 2012
11:55 am
All bow down to water girl as she has received her talking points from Bookman and has now enlightened us all. What a deep and through thought….just move to a smaller city. Brilliant!!
DunMoody
December 19th, 2012
11:58 am
@Hamilton … the achilles heel of conversion charters is that the principals and staff are still employees of the system. How vigorously can they defend charter-based opt-outs and initiatives if they’re threatened by loss of job or relocation? How can they fund the initiatives if the county says “no” and they are hamstrung on grant applications? A charter conversion is not a panacea.
Pride and Joy
December 19th, 2012
12:26 pm
Splitting DOES NOT create more problems than it solves. Look at Decatur city schools. They are exactly that — a small city district apart from Dekalb county and they are thriving.
We absolutely need to break off into small school districts and focus on the children in our own community instead of trying to appease the people who vastly different values and goals.
Money from the community should stay in the community. I am so angry that my federal, state and even local tax dollars are squandered on people who really don’t give a darn about educaiton.
Pride and Joy
December 19th, 2012
12:30 pm
Samantha, your comment is typical of the entitled class. YOu don’t live in Dunwoody and you don’t pay Dunwoody taxes but you feel entitled to tell Dunwoody what to do.
Counties aren’t sacred, Samantha. Just because you live in Dekalb county DOES NOT mean you have a right to push Dunwoody citizens and parents around. You DON’T OWN the people in Dunwoody and you didn’t earn the money they pay ih taxes soooo…mind your own business and BUTT OUT of their business.