Should teachers be armed? Should parents be allowed to carry guns into schools?

We need to keep and bear arms, this violence is ridiculous. Our school educators working in a no gun zone makes them sitting ducks and homicidal maniacs are cowards. They go where there will be vulnerability and mass executions, but we know that now. Gun laws at this point is a joke, these people do not go to legally obtain guns and ammunition and criminals rarely have legal guns, it’s insane at this point not to conceal and carry..

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The union makes the case for the need for this law. These massacres happen in places where noone is allowed to have a gun. So when the psycho opens up, noone has the means to stop him.

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Good Afternoon,

First of all I am a teacher. Second of all, I am not an NRA member, and I don’t own a pistol. Now that that is clear, I would like to point out a couple of things.
-Each of the arguments against arming teacher can be categorized in three ways: what if’s, we don’t trust teachers, and I can’t bear the thought.
What if”s: what if a teacher goes nuts? Answer: what’s to keep one from going nuts and bringing a gun now? What if a kid gained access to that gun? Again, what’s to keep one from bringing a gun currently? Haven’t numerous prior posts emphasized locked storage container (biometric), that not all teachers would have guns, and that rigorous training would be required? The point that Israel does this and things have gone swimmingly must be restated. Someone earlier made a separate point about bullet accuracy and the likelihood of “friendly fire” incidents. Yes, that may happen, it is probable. Weigh that against what we know, what we can guarantee when a gunman faces no opposition….I will take the risk of unintentionally killing a small number of students over the absolute certitude of a massacre when no contest can be given. Is that horrible–yea. Is it the unfortunate reality–yea, and we need to meet the challenge like realists, not idealists. These what if’s are nonsensical, desperate attempts to point out highly unlikely scenarios.

We don’t trust teachers: In some ways, a valid point. Not all teachers would want or could handle the responsibility. Some teachers are irresponsible. Please tell me of another organization or institution that doesn’t have some such individuals. Because abuses are so well documented in the media and because everything involving children elicits a visceral response, the crimes of a few cause the many to be painted with the same brush. Remember again as others have already stated, that by means of stringent psychiatric evaluation and time tested vetting process, only those teachers who could handle the responsibility would be given it. Oh, and the idea that cops and teachers are so different—certainly some are, but certainly some are not. How many of you have had a strict teacher or coach? Cops and teachers both want to help others, some cops would make great teachers and some teachers would make great cops. Many criminal justice educators previously worked in law enforcement. The idea that professional people who are willing to lay down their lives for YOUR kids are incapable of becoming adequately trained in firearm usage is ludacris and insulting. Of course insulting teachers has become a good sport but I digress…..

The final category that I’ve seen posted and heard is the “I can’t bear the thought” category. These responses are generally the shortest and the most emotionally based, hence, the least-rational. By the way, I applaud all of you, on both sides, who have engaged in this conversation in a rational, practical, fact-based manner. To the matter at hand– those of you who’s responses fall into this category need to wake up to reality. Is this conversation unsavory, yes, do we want guns around our kids, no, and so forth. Here’s the thing, the world is not a safe place whether you like it or not and right now your kids are sitting ducks. They are completely defenseless….there is nothing to stop a similar massacre from happening in your town. The cops you say? My father is a retired officer and I have the utmost respect for thier profession. Unfortunatly and we have seen yet again, the cops don’t get their until the damage has been done. How long does it take a SWAT team to gear up and deploy? Ten minutes? Fifteen? How many rounds can be shot in that time?

I understand the position you folks are taking and why. Schools are supposed to be safe places that don’t need to be locked up and guarded. We want to think the world is safe for our kids and we tell them it will all be ok, but we all really know better don’t we. The problem is that you are more concerned about conforming the world to your perception of how you’d like it to be than how it really is and the subsequent consequences for dealing with it as such. The consequences were stated above–your kids are defenseless. It is time to grow up and take appropriate, reasonable action to better ensure the safety of students.

One concluding thought that was mentioned earlier that I think needs restatement. Who do these nuts target? Easy targets that can’t defend themselves. They avoid targets that can offer resistance. What happens when they are met with resistance? They die.

We can debate banning guns, negligence on mental health, and cultural decay until we are blue in the face. The fact is that none of those issue is likely to change any time soon. Until then how many more of these atrocities will be committed? If we are really serious about improving school safety lets deal with what we can control, and we can control how vulnerable our schools are. Scoffing and shaking our heads at the idea of armed staff members is acquiescing to the status quo and we’ve seen how well that’s been going. It is time to deal with the world as it is, no matter how distasteful we find it. There is a solution that we haven’t tried. If it doesn’t work, we can always go back to the way it was before, but to dismiss a reasonable course of action without giving it a try is putting, in my estimation, our own feelings in front of the safety of the kids and that is inexcusable. We owe it to our children to at least try; what’s the worst that can happen….I hardly believe that anyone could seriously think that it could be any worse than the current state of affairs.

Best Regards,

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@cindy,

one of the qoutes from the teachers at the scene was we have to wait for the “good guys”; we are the good guys and we are already at school

plz, do not insult the courage of an educator; I believe that has already been shown by the sacrifice of those who attempted to protect the children; every person is capable of great things, Flight 93 is where we started fighting back; think back to what happens now on airplanes, if there is an incident the ppl rise up and stop it now; we outnumber the bad guys, we just need the tools to protect.

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Where in hell are you folks coming from?? Some time ago, I wrote advocating a teacher’s right…no, make that RESPONSIBILITY…to inflict the “board of education/the paddle upon the sixes of those who cannot/will not get with the program. This methodology has been in existence for centuries, certainly in the dark ages of the 60s. Overwhelming responses reflected indignation at the very thought, but now, following the wrenching events at Newtown, many of you seem to damn-near favor establishing defensive perimeters around schools across the land.

My first inclination is to wonder why an apparently well-adjusted parent would have kept firearms within easy access of family members of apparent mental difficulty…much less foster the use of these weapons in the belief that the kid’s self esteem would benefit.

During this extremely difficult time for the residents of Newtown, and for the entire Country, one must wonder if it may be too early; too soon after the tragedy, to cast questions of propriety upon this dead mother. However, it can never be too early to re-examine just how we intend to deal with kids (just this once, I’ll call em children) with behavioral/social maladjustments.

Perhaps I’m just stuck in the “ole fashioned 1st gear” of humanity’s race; perhaps my insistance on “the old ways” is entirely out of touch with the realities of contemporary times. But, dammit, wouldn’t it be a lot more effective if kids grew up knowing, first hand, what the concept of consequences meant? If this kid were truly of severe mental incapacitation, why would such an individual be (to coin an educational term) mainstreamed into “normal” society.

These are questions which, after the tears have dried, we must grapple, whether we like it or not…whether we even wish to.

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@Ole Guy

Well said.

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to “our write to fix it…”
No, you don’t have a right to put a gun in my child’s school.
No, you don’t.
If you want a shoot em up bang ganging school, go out a build yourself a private school out in the middle of nowhere.
You keep your guns outta my life and my child’s school!

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As a parent and teacher, I want the kids to be safe. For the time I see them, they’re mine, and I expect the teachers of my two boys to feel the same way. That said, I don’t see how any of us carrying a loaded weapon is anything but trouble looking for a place to happen. I teach in a mostly rural, high poverty school, and it would worry me constantly to have a loaded weapon within reach of teenagers. They’re too emotional, too unpredictable, and I’m not nearly big enough to fight one of them physically should one try to get to that weapon. I also don’t want parents, who are as unpredictable as the kids carrying them on campus either.

It’s easy to think someone with a gun could have stopped this guy. Maybe, but look at the arsenal he came in with and the fact that he was shooting a high powered, semi-automatic rifle. What gun, in any but the most well-trained, calm hands could have gotten off a shot to stop him without potentially hitting an unintended victim? The best defense is vigilance. Someone should be watching the cameras at all times; someone should always be ready to call 911; classroom doors should be closed and locked. Mine has been for years, and anyone who needs to come in either knocks or has a master key. What stops the monsters is the presence of law enforcement. This kid killed himself once he heard the sirens coming. The kids in Columbine did the same once they knew the police were there. That stops them, guns on campus don’t. I don’t see how me having a gun in my classroom would help. By the time I could retrieve it, point and shoot, the monster would have killed many.

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As one who carries a concealed firearm on a daily basis I am heartbroken over the massacre in Newtown. My heart goes out to the families of the children and adults killed there. To those of you who don’t shoot, please suspend your automatic rejection and consider what I have to say. Guns are inanimate objects. They do not fire of their own accord. On the logic of banning guns because nut cases kill people with them we should also ban automobiles because drunk drivers kill people with them. Just ask MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) about that sort of carnage!

I carry my weapon at all times and places where it is legal to carry. If I had been in that school I would have been unarmed in accordance with the law. That’s the law where I live too. I would have been as helpless as those teachers in preventing violence. In order to get a CCW permit one has to pass an in-depth background check, take a class, and qualify (30 round shooting test). CCW permittee’s are certified good guys (and gals).

I carry my weapon holstered. That’s the only responsible way to carry a handgun. It can’t fall into anyone else’s control because it’s physically attached to my body. It goes where I go. It can’t accidentally be left behind. No one but my wife and family know that I’m armed. You can’t tell by looking at me that I’m armed.

There is evil in this world, and sorry to say, it’s not Satan… that’s a cop-out. Most people are decent law-abiding folks. There are some though that are just plain evil. You can’t reason with them. They don’t obey laws so passing laws means nothing. Only honest people obey laws.

Is there risk in arming teachers. Yes. Just being alive is risky. Is the risk worthwhile? I say yes because the alternative is that no responsible adult has the tool needed to defend the children otherwise! That’s all a gun is. It’s a tool. In and of itself it is neither good nor evil. The good or evil is in the heart and will of the one who wields it.

Personally, at age 56, I find the first person shooter games repugnant. Read Col Dave Grossman’s books. He’s on a crusade to ban those games because they desensitize our children to violence.

I’m also opposed to violent movies for the same reason. We’ve had guns in this country since it was founded. Only recently have we had these sorts of shootings. Banning guns will not change anything. You have to ask what has changed? What has changed is the desensitization to violence. It’s the same with sexual content. The stuff on TV could not have been on the air when I was growing up. It would have been considered pornographic. George Carlin had a comedy routine about the 7 deadly words you couldn’t say on TV. Well guess what? There might (I say might) be one or two left that you can’t say on TV now. What does that tell you?

Passing laws will only keep honest people honest, and will have the negative effect of disarming decent law abiding folks. Criminals will know this. Read the book More Guns, Less Crime. It’s a statistical analysis of crime statistics over about a decade.

If anyone wants to not be armed, I support them in their decision. They’re doing what’s right for them. Please do not presume to decide what’s right for me. I’m a sheepdog. I’m a protector. Never shall I be the wolf (with apologies to wolves who have many admirable characteristics). Google for Col Grossmans essay “On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs” for more about that.

I would ask that folks take a step back and take the emotion on both sides of the argument out of the equation. Lets have a rational discussion like adults without calling names because the other guy has a different set of beliefs. All of us want the same thing. We want our children and families to be safe. The question is how best to do that.

Police are referred to as first responders. That’s a fallacy. They are never the first responder. The first responder is you Mr and Mrs Citizen. As the saying goes, when seconds count the police are minutes away. What do you do in the meantime? Those of us who have CCW permits have decided that we are personally responsible for our safety and that of our families. The police can’t protect us because they don’t live with us, go to work with us, etc. They do a great job almost all of the time, don’t get me wrong. They are just unable to be anything but reactive.

The reason I carry my firearm even when at home is simple. A gun is useless unless you have it when you need it. A couple years ago one of my doctors that I see regularly for chiropractic was working in his garage when 2 thugs started knocking down his front door. Fortunately for him he had access to his shotgun from where he was and met them at the door as they broke it down. He didn’t need to fire a shot. They took one look at the business end of that shotgun and turned and ran. You will never, ever, hear a story like that in the news. It happens thousands of times per day, every day in this country. Had he not had access to his shotgun, that story could have turned out very differently!!!

Before you make up your mind, ask a friend who shoots to take you out to the range. If you don’t know anyone, go to the range and tell them you’d like to rent a gun and learn to shoot. They’ll give you the safety drill and show you how. Even if you never want to touch a gun again, you’ll at least know what it is you’re talking about.

I’m 56 years of age. I’m in decent health but I’m not getting any younger. How well do you think I’d fare unarmed against a 20 something thug who is almost certainly better at physical violence than I am?

I am prepared to greet all that I meet as a fellow child of God. I hate no one and have malice towards none. I accept responsibility for my own safety and that of my family. For me it’s really just that simple. I don’t love guns, although I do enjoy the shooting sports. Guns are simply the most appropriate tool for the responsibility I have.

May God bless you and keep you.

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Great discussion. Read every comment over the last hour. The reality is this folks–we really don’t “know” for sure what would happen if firearms were introduced on a widespread level across school campuses.

We don’t.

The naysayers are all gloom and doom, and the pro-gunners think everyone would turn into a hero. Both have opinions and “facts” to cite and project. But we don’t really know.

Here’s where I sit: Under current laws, firearms have been banned for quite some time in most forms at most schools. We have had a taste of the results of that and we are upset by it. Innocent children, teachers, and school administrators are being shot.

Why not try the reverse for the next decade? Instead of sitting around and talking about how the world is flat, and how terrible it would be for anybody to try to sail over the horizon, let’s actually try it. The truth is that it won’t ruin us. It might not decrease school shootings as dramatically as some people think, and there might be negative consequences along the way, but it’s not going to start world war 3 either.

There is nothing unreasonable about trying new methods and then evaluating (naysayers keep your mouths shut for a second). Although the execution details still need to be worked out (who has the guns, where they’re stored, etc), I’m all for firearms being introduced to campuses. God bless America.

oh and one other thing–if you know about teachers and administrators throwing things and saying they wish their students were dead, then why don’t you quit blogging about it and voice up to have these people removed? These people should never be entrusted with our children–guns or no. Frankly I would rather my kids have an even-keeled teacher with a firearm, than an unarmed teacher that wishes her students were dead.

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@ our write

As an educator and as one who has long defended teachers, I’m having a hard time seeing where you see evidence of my insulting the courage of teachers.

I’m concerned that having more guns in schools–even when owned by teachers or parents with training–will inevitably result in greater bloodbaths. As my first post noted, most bullets from the guns of trained police officers go astray.

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no where in my post do i say parnets should be on campus armed (i can not even start to say how bad an idea that is). second, when you make a flip comment about teachers sticking their heads out doorways to take pot shots at a shooter and its like the OK corral and all will wind up dead; hmmm, you need a history lesson on how many died at the OK corral and for recent history teachers did die.

If you dont have a problem with police having guns in school what is the difference when a teacher is a true deputy; on top of that I have mentioned also that it could be less than lethal ammo for them. you can’t think its just a shootout; with training you learn about things like indirect fire and direct fire to draw a combatats attention from his targets

really what I am proposing is having more trained peace/police officers at school; which I think we can all agree would be a good thing;

the next detail is storage of weapons or conceal carry; I do not know the answer to that question either; I know its not going to be on someones hip; I mean really give me more credit than that, no where do I want some guy thinking he is tough by walking around students armed; what we need is a discussion school safety and security. I think this is one option. AL has trained their students to react; throw things, run, do not becoming a sitting target. if you just want to give bullet proof police sheilds and a helment I”ll take it. Lets do something than hoping for the best and “waiting”

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the idea that armed teachers will increase danger is like saying armed police increase danger..
I will simplify: good guys vs bad guys, why not allow the good guys to defend children? If a sick madman wants to kill our children then allow the good-guys (teachers) to defend their students.

Clearly we have seen what happens when a madman enters a school. That school principal in Connecticut had to throw herself at the lunatic, he smashed a window to get into the building, clearly that poor woman would have fired at him if she was a licensed conceal-carry citizen..

States have lined up permitting licensed conceal-carry because the screening process ensures the “Good-Guys” that passed all the tests have helped to reduce violent crime without firing a shot. CONCEAL is the magic word here, stop the knee-jerk reaction with imaginary scenes of teachers with exposed machine guns.. Just one secretly armed teacher could have prevented the carnage.

My wife is a teacher and she knows how to stop a killer from harming her students but current school policy prevents teachers from carrying even a tiny can of pepper spray.

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MB, I’m pretty sure that legislation means in their vehicle, not on their person. They cannot carry a weapon on their person into a school building.

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Wrong. Teachers in Israel do NOT carry guns. This is false.

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I have copied the relevant code sections below to support MB’s statement about license holders already being legal to carry into schools under limited circumstances. The first part of (c)(7) specifically relates to carrying a weapon while carrying or picking up a student at a school building. Nothing is mentioned about “only in a vehicle” or “not in a building” or any such thing. The second part of (c)(7) covers the weapon in a parked vehicle or driving through a school zone.

(c)(8) covers weapons in vehicles while bringing/picking up a student.

O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127.1
(b) (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (c) of this Code section, it shall be unlawful for any person to carry to or to possess or have under such person’s control while within a school safety zone or at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school any weapon or explosive compound, other than fireworks the possession of which is regulated by Chapter 10 of Title 25.

(c) The provisions of this Code section shall not apply to:

(7) A person who is licensed in accordance with Code Section 16-11-129 or issued a permit pursuant to Code Section 43-38-10, when such person carries or picks up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school or a person who is licensed in accordance with Code Section 16-11-129 or issued a permit pursuant to Code Section 43-38-10 when he or she has any weapon legally kept within a vehicle when such vehicle is parked at such school property or is in transit through a designated school zone;

(8) A weapon possessed by a license holder which is under the possessor’s control in a motor vehicle or which is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle which is being used by an adult over 21 years of age to bring to or pick up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school, or when such vehicle is used to transport someone to an activity being conducted on school property which has been authorized by a duly authorized official of the school; provided, however, that this exception shall not apply to a student attending such school;

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Gary, I suspect you may be among the “perpetually protected”. Those who have never experienced the adrenalin rush (DEFINITELY NOT THE GOOD KIND OF RUSH), the sweat of fear and anxiety will probably never understand the hard reality that one simply cannot be expected to “flip the switch” in an instant; to go from mild mannered teacher of kids to the mentality of a killer (whether in the interest of self defense, or for evil intent, one, upon taking up that weapon, must be ready to take a life as well as to lay one’s life down).

From a practical point of view, do you honestly feel that a teacher could be effective while on high alert, ready to grab that weapon in the desk drawer right next to the papers which need grading?

I hope you don’t mean this, but your view on weapons use is an insult to those whose jobs require vigilance and the sure knowledge that one, at any moment, may have to take life or, just as easily, lose one’s life; quite frankly, this viewpoint just pisses me off.

I was a professional Soldier for many many years, however, I would NEVER consider the “wisdom” of “packing heat”, within the (untrained) civilian community any more than I would allow the guy who just flew me back to ATL to command the airplane on a part-time/as required basis. That guy had better be FULLY trained, current, and have his head FULLY in the game. Anything less is simply asking for trouble far far beyond that which one is attempting to mitigate.

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[...] owners who receive additional hours of training to carry their weapons in formerly gun-free areas. We discussed the bill on the blog as it generated strong opposition from school boards and teachers’ groups, including the [...]

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@Jason “I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming…” you say “You would be weeded out during that training because you clearly lack basic common sense. ””

Jason, that was not my comment. I was quoting what Daniel Brock said about ME.

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[...] schools. In fact, the American Federation of Teachers — with its 1.5 million members — also sent a letter to Snyder opposing the bill, saying, “We should be doing everything we can to reduce the possibility of any gunfire in [...]

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In September of this year Connecticut teacher Jeffrey Giuliano mistakenly shot and killed his own son. Is this one of the guys people want protecting our kids?

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there’s a town in georgia that requires its citizens to own guns, and there is virtually no crime. if the criminal knows people are armed it’s a deterrent. if someone breaks into your home it’s better to have a gun to protect yourself than to invite the criminal to join in and sing koombaya

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