A crime that shocks the senses: Shooting children and staff to death in their school
Updated Saturday with DeKalb Schools statement:
The shootings in Newtown have deeply shaken people everywhere. I continue to see numerous Facebook postings expressing shock, grief and anger, and it is the first thing people mention wherever I go in Decatur today. Many people cry as they talk about the mass murder of 20 children and six adults at the school.
In addition, my local school system sent out an advisory today about to talk to children here about the deaths of children, teachers and administrators at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
We are a nation in crisis today over this. And a nation unsure of what to do next.
Back to the original posting from yesterday:
There are simply no words. A gunman opens fire in a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school and kills 26 people, many children in first grade.
Twenty children are among the dead at Sandy Hook Elementary, a school of 700 in Newtown, a small town in Connecticut, about 65 miles from New York City. The gunmen, who committed suicide after his rampage, is 20-year-olds. Adam Lanza died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, but not before killing his mother Nancy Lanza at home and then driving to the school in her car, according to news report. (The details of this horrific story are changing by the hour as more information is released.)
Earlier reports were that Nancy Lanza was a teacher at the school but that is now in question. She is not on the faculty list at the school.
Lanza’s violent rampage through the school this morning left 20 young children and six adults dead there. All told, he shot and killed 27 people before turning the gun on himself.
My husband’s sister lives in this picturesque town and teaches at the middle school. I have not talked to her but my husband has exchanged messages with her. I cannot imagine the grief and horror as families learn that their beloved child is among the victims of this psycho.
Among the responses:
DeKalb County Schools:
In light of the tragedy in Connecticut, the DeKalb County School District has asked all school administrators and staff to review their safe school and emergency plans. School resource officers and campus supervisors will continue to be highly visible at their assigned schools to provide maximum security for staff and students. We will continue to communicate with the different police departments in the district to provide support as needed. The safety of students, staff and visitors is our top priority in the DeKalb County School District, and we are dedicated to ensuring that our public schools remain the safest places for our most precious resources -our children
President Obama:
This afternoon, I spoke with Governor Malloy and FBI Director Mueller. I offered Governor Malloy my condolences on behalf of the nation, and made it clear he will have every single resource that he needs to investigate this heinous crime, care for the victims, counsel their families.
We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years. And each time I learn the news I react not as a President, but as anybody else would — as a parent. And that was especially true today. I know there’s not a parent in America who doesn’t feel the same overwhelming grief that I do.
The majority of those who died today were children — beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them — birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own. Among the fallen were also teachers — men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfill their dreams.
So our hearts are broken today — for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these little children, and for the families of the adults who were lost. Our hearts are broken for the parents of the survivors as well, for as blessed as they are to have their children home tonight, they know that their children’s innocence has been torn away from them too early, and there are no words that will ease their pain.
As a country, we have been through this too many times. Whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago — these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.
This evening, Michelle and I will do what I know every parent in America will do, which is hug our children a little tighter and we’ll tell them that we love them, and we’ll remind each other how deeply we love one another. But there are families in Connecticut who cannot do that tonight. And they need all of us right now. In the hard days to come, that community needs us to be at our best as Americans. And I will do everything in my power as President to help.
Because while nothing can fill the space of a lost child or loved one, all of us can extend a hand to those in need — to remind them that we are there for them, that we are praying for them, that the love they felt for those they lost endures not just in their memories but also in ours. May God bless the memory of the victims and, in the words of Scripture, heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds.
John Barge, Georgia state school superintendent:
We at the Georgia Department of Education grieve with the victims and families of the senseless tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. Generally speaking, schools are safe places for students, but these kinds of incidents remind us to always keep school safety at the forefront. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Sandy Hook Elementary School community.
Marian Wright Edelman, president of the Children’s Defense Fund:
What is it going to take to stop the craziness of gun violence in this country when every three hours a child or teen is killed by a gun? What is it going to take to make the politicians stand up and put sensible gun laws in place so we don’t have to mourn the horror of more senseless deaths of young children murdered at an elementary school? Once again we are faced with unspeakable horror, and once again we are reminded that there is no safe harbor for our children. How young do the victims have to be and how many children need to die before we stop the proliferation of guns in our nation?
We can’t just talk about it and then do nothing until the next shooting when we will profess shock again. This latest terrible tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School is no fluke. It is a result of the senseless, immoral neglect of all of us as a nation to fail to protect children instead of guns and to speak out against the pervasive culture of violence. It is up to us to stop these preventable tragedies.
U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan:
School shootings are always incomprehensible and horrific tragedies. But words fail to describe today’s heartbreaking and savage attack at Sandy Hook Elementary School. As the father of two children in elementary school, I can barely imagine the anguish and losses suffered today by the Newtown community. Our hearts and prayers go out to every parent, child, teacher, staff member, and administrator at Sandy Hook and the surrounding community. And our thanks go out to every teacher, staff member, and first responder who cared for, comforted, and protected children from harm, often at risk to themselves. We will do everything in our power to assist and support the healing and recovery of Newtown.
American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten:
The entire AFT community is shaken to its core by this massacre of young children and the educators and school employees who care for and nurture them. Twenty children and six adults were shot and killed today in one of the worst school shootings in history. We grieve for them all, and our prayers are with the Sandy Hook Elementary School community and all of Newtown, as well as the AFT nurses caring for victims at Danbury Hospital, following this heinous act. I just got off the phone with Newtown Federation of Teachers President Tom Kuroski, and pledged to do everything we can to provide support and comfort to the students, teachers, administrators, their families and everyone in this community grappling with this trauma.
Our thanks go out to all of the first responders for their efforts to ensure the safety of all the students and staff. In this horrible moment, there were also extraordinary acts of courage by school staff to lock down the school and protect children.
We’ll never be able to prevent every senseless act of violence, but our children, educators and school employees go to school believing it is a safe sanctuary. We’ve been through this too many times. Everything we can do, we must do, including a renewed focus on gun control and preventing gun violence.
To all of those statements, I can only offer an amen.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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139 comments Add your comment
teaching taxpayer
December 14th, 2012
3:26 pm
I am copying George Takei’s eloquent response to this crime: This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.
Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children.
true sorrow
December 14th, 2012
3:30 pm
A coward is the only words I can use to describe for someone to go into a school and shoot children. I have written several letters to our state officials back to Sonny up to the present day to allow certain teachers training to respond to such an assault. I know some would say a teacher is not prepared but at least allow them the tools to be able to slow down or stop a shooter. We have many vets today in classrooms and I know how they would respond and it would not be to run away.
Beverly Fraud
December 14th, 2012
3:53 pm
There is also a story out of China where a man stabbed 22 school children. As Maureen said, there are simply no words.
seen it all
December 14th, 2012
3:58 pm
What can we say? All I can say is that I am heartbroken and have sympathy for the families and community involved. Let us pray that this senseless violence ceases.
As for the issue of school security– school security had nothing to do with this tragedy. This was the result the actions of an unstable individual. It could have happened anywhere. Inside the school or outside. Turning our schools into fortesses is ultimately self defeating. Taking on a siege mentality is, in the end self-destructive for us all. It makes us distrusting of humanity, distrustful of our fellow man. You begin to see potential threats in every person. It moves people apart and not together. It is the coming together, not moving away from each other, that will be our salvation.
joe
December 14th, 2012
4:12 pm
Kind of ironic that the only thing that would have prevented this tragedy is someone at the school (security guard, principal, teacher, janitor, etc) carrying a concealed gun and putting a round into this sick kid. This world is going to Hades in a handbasket.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
4:29 pm
Some schools already have metal detectors. They are usually high schools. I think Jackson High School has one.
My child’s former school does not even have a fence around it. Anyone could grab a kid off of the playground unnoticed. There are trailers and other buildings to hide under and behind. It is definitely not safe there.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
4:34 pm
School security had everything to do with this tragedy. The murderer was allowed in because he was familiar. He was the teacher’s son.
Teachers are in the news today as well for raping children. We too often fear the enemy we don’t know. Often, it is the enemy we do know that we need to be more afraid of.
Children are especially vulnerable because they don’t know how to defend themselves. I’ll bet it occurred to none of the children to dive behind a bookcase or chair or open the window to climb out. They shouldn’t have to, they’re too young.
But we do need to build a strong, tall fence around all schools, have metal detectors and have an entryway with only one way to go — through the metal detector and the office before one goes to the classrooms with the kids.
Of course it is not too early to talk about safety at schools.
We need to act today.
Columbine was years ago. We still haven’t made our schools safe from gunmen and kidnappers and in GA, we’re not safe from poison gas either.
Michele
December 14th, 2012
4:46 pm
It should not be the shock related to the deaths of innocent children and teachers, it should be the shock of where American society is headed. Violence is everyday thought in far too many of our youth. They are desensitized to any violence, often seeing it as entertaining and exciting. Paintball, laser tag, video games all go into the equation. Respect for others is on a tremendously steep downward spiral. Where all this ends is a question that needs to be addressed by every educator, every parent, every government official, and every citizen. Our government representatives are mostly a joke. They are out for themselves only. Others don’t really count. If people counted, we would not be in the current fiscal cliff problem. It would have been resolved a year ago. Oh, how silly of me. I forgot about the time and millions of dollars spent running for president and slamming all the other candidates. How civil! Americans need to immediately wake up and begin to care about one another, whether you are a mere citizen or the president. What is it going to take to get everyone on board? Another totally senseless tragedy?
long time educator
December 14th, 2012
5:00 pm
Another AJC article references “rumblings about gun control in the wake of the school shooting”. I am not against talking about gun control, particularly automatic weapons, but another thread running through all of these acts of violence is MENTAL ILLNESS. We need to look at how we do or do not identify and treat mentally ill and potentially violent individuals. Guns do not kill; violent, psychotic people do. If we take up all the guns, they will turn to knives, axes, etc. Parents and family members usually know if they have a troubled individual in their family.
Centrist
December 14th, 2012
5:02 pm
Joe who posted at 4:12 has this right. Disarming those who are charged with “protecting” their charges allows and encourages the depraved to prey upon innocent. The principal in that school might be a live hero had he come out of his office trained and armed. Instead he is a brave, defenseless victim.
Michele who posted at 4:46 does not understand the history of our violent country in an even more violent world. We are not on a downward violence spiral in America, but there is a LOT of room for improvement.
oldtimer
December 14th, 2012
5:19 pm
this event is just stunning. We will need to discuss MENTAL ILLNESS. There is not enough awareness about this.
What's Best for Kids?
December 14th, 2012
5:24 pm
The principal, who lost her life, will be remembered. The teachers, who protected these sweet babies, will also be remembered…as heroes. The children will be remembered as angels in a moment of hatred.
I will be snuggling with my little lambs and thanking the universe for their safety. I can’t imagine a more horrifying, a more helpless feeling, than what these parents had when they went to pick up their children.
mountain man
December 14th, 2012
5:25 pm
“We will need to discuss MENTAL ILLNESS. There is not enough awareness about this”
I agree with this. Because of a bias against “warehousing”, we now turn these people loose to be homeless, or to cause senseless crime. Better to be warehoused.
old teach
December 14th, 2012
5:25 pm
@seen it all: great post. Additionally, many schools do have a resource officer-trained in the use of weapons.
mountain man
December 14th, 2012
5:27 pm
I can speak from personal experience and that of some friends: the authorities will do NOTHING to help you when you seek help for a child with mental issues. You can call them and say that you are scared of your own child, that you are afraid for your life, and they say ” it is your problem, deal with it!”
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
5:28 pm
long time educator, agree. to be honest, too, as far as tone of things, it was the fed that sent all the paramilitary gear to every little police dept. in the land and told them to protect the homeland from terrorists. U. S. has been through a lot of stuff, since beginning around 1990. Agree with you this more to do with mental illness treatment than gun control. The Swiss has rifle in every household, it is part of their defense policy. Back to 1990, some guy returned from Gulf War 1 and had agent orange sickness and the fed refused to recognise it or do anything for him. He couldn’t work. He got his contracting former job, which he had been good at, and ended up making a parking lot crooked, they couldn’t use him. his brain wasn’t working right. His wife left him and then he got put in jail for not paying child support. He was a good natured person, said “Can you believe this?” Point is, yes, I think this stuff adds up. And the 9/11 clean-up people denied recognition, care, compensation. It’s been strange times. Here’s a picture of a hospital bill someone posted today for 4 days in the hospital due to an accident http://i.imgur.com/zZoFP.jpg
William Casey
December 14th, 2012
5:30 pm
As several have mentioned, this is about MENTAL ILLNESS. National policy on mental illness changed in the 1980’s. Mass shootings have increased. Coincidence? I think not.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
5:33 pm
The Connecticut governor said that assault weapons and owning bullet proof vest are already illegal in Connecticut, they have existent strong gun laws there, etc. This is unthinkable tragedy. I’m thinkin’ mental health issue. Where are the mental health services? The guy in Colorado sent out indicators seeking help. Very little response. Even gave a professional a book with his troubled plans in it, no response.
William Casey
December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm
Mountain Man is right about authorities not being much help. This policy went national in the ’80’s.
An Accidential Professor
December 14th, 2012
5:36 pm
I completely agree with the above poster. The tragedy is that we as a society do nothing to protect innocent people from the mentally ill.
RIP to all the victims.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
5:48 pm
I noted during the recent active “war” period, there were very violent shows on tv prime time evening 8pm in the guise of entertainment. I do not watch television but somewhere briefly saw “24″ action show and there was point blank shooting people being modeled on the tv, as if to normlise? the violence being used real life in war, etc.? that kind of tv programming does not happen by accident and there was a lot of it, this righteous use of power stuff. same time highly produced weird nationalist lyric songs going 24/7 on “country” radio stations, these sort of “emotion anthems.” Bush era was rough. Cheney shooting the lawyer and the lawyer apologising to Cheney for being in the way. I’m not trying to callous, is not my point. Country / people have been through a lot, not really processed. War media illegal to broadcast. Coffins of soldiers, illegal to broadcast, not distributed, not shown. Finally someone showed one, very produced, controlled, airplane bay, very official. No war footage allowed, learned that lesson from Vietnam. None of that. Distance video, like fireworks spectacle. Information managed, controlled. Then wikileaks happened.
catlady
December 14th, 2012
5:56 pm
Didn’t take long till a blogger says that had the principal, janitor, etc been packing, it might have been prevented.
I have had kids–4th and 5h graders–that I am fearful about. Some of these kids are on serious psychotropic drugs. Some are not. What they all have in common is a deep anger and little “parental” (grandparent, aunt) supervision, and a long time of violent videos and games. Around here, I think many of them have weapons that they can reach. I have one that I work with that engenders fear in me this year–9 years old. Something has to be done–I wouldn’t want my grandchildren in this boy’s class.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
6:01 pm
Newsfeed says “Tearful Obama calls for action after shooting.” So he is going to set up mental health treatment network? Get the mentally ill off the street, out of the prison, out of the home? Was this an untreated mentally ill person living at home who made madness on caregiver? Too early to know. Why the second person, paramilitary fantasy / clothing. What is that about? What is the cause and effect? What is the cause question is sole way to be productive with tragedy. Some countries have bus crashes due to poor roads, no dividers on highway. U. S. has high rate of gun tragedy. In China they call it a “rage crime” when this happens.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
6:03 pm
long tme educator, if, as you say, we take away the guns then the mentally ill will use axes and knives…
Yes! that would be much better. Knives and axes cannot shoot off 100 rounds in a minute.
This murderer, if he only had an axe and a knife, would never been able to kill 27 people. Most, if not all, of those kids would be alive today if we didn’t allow guns in our society.
Guns kill people and people kill people and people with guns kill the most of all.
Centrist
December 14th, 2012
6:05 pm
catlady posted “Didn’t take long till a blogger says that had the principal, janitor, etc been packing, it might have been prevented.”
And another liberal loses credibility by making things up to make a point claiming people want to train and arm janitors, etc.
indigo
December 14th, 2012
6:15 pm
Let’s see which politicians, Democrats and Republicans, decide to ban assualt rifles, for starters.
I’m betting that Republicans, to protect the profits of their Big Business masters, will fight any attempts at this gun ban or any other actions that might threaten gun industry profits.
Don’t they have any concsience, you ask?
You get three guesses on that one.
The first two don’t count.
independent36
December 14th, 2012
6:41 pm
Republicans support allowing any gun for anyone. And no funding for mental health. What’s next? Gun carry for elementary students?
incredulous
December 14th, 2012
6:49 pm
This one in particular, and many recent tragedies, began 25 years ago with the dissolution of mental health treatment in the United States.
http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html#thomas.html?&_suid=135552881592802956038416481702
Homeschool Mom
December 14th, 2012
7:11 pm
I’m a homeschooler and a concealed carry permit holder! I won’t go down without a fight!
Former Georgian
December 14th, 2012
7:44 pm
The discussion about guns is the wrong discussion. These were purchased legally by someone who presumably had no history of mental illness. The real discussion needs to be about a way to diagnose these people and lock them up. This kind of thing didn’t happened when there were mental hospitals for these people.
Starik
December 14th, 2012
7:45 pm
If we can have a sex offender registry why not a registry for schizophrenics?
woodrow
December 14th, 2012
7:45 pm
This article is inaccurate.
Cynic
December 14th, 2012
7:47 pm
Everyone knows that schools are “gun free zones.” The risk of getting shot by someone while you are committing such a crime there is nearly zero. A gun show on the other hand is quite the opposite. There is absolutely NO question among virtually any member of the public that a violent act or attempted act at a gun show will result in immediate and lethal action by attendees, vendors, etc. There has NEVER been a mass shooting at a gun show, despite the presence of literally thousands of guns (and likely more than a few people with mental issues).
It is not about someone with a concealed weapon stepping up and killing the perpetrator. The affect of concealed carry laws and the prevalence of concealed carry weapons reaches all the way back to the planning stages of the perpetrator. If he/she knows that he will face no opposition then that is a factor in their choice of target/location. If he knows he MAY face lethal response, that will be a factor. Yes, we are talking about someone with a serious mental disorder, but ultimately he had a motive and a goal. If that goal could not be easily achieved because of likely opposition, another location might have been selected. There were adult targets this individual had issue with. Had they all been somewhere with a high likelihood of guns present, he might have chosen somewhere else besides a school to carry out his plans. Might his mother and other adults be dead? Yes. Would so many kids be dead? Certainly not likely.
Nearly all incidents of mass shooting have happened at locations where the likelihood of firearms being present was extremely low. These are just facts.
Maureen Downey
December 14th, 2012
8:02 pm
@woodrow, See updates. As I noted in this blog, this story is changing as new details are released.
Maureen
Violence abounds
December 14th, 2012
8:03 pm
We talk about violence and its prevalence in our society, but let us not forget that at the root of all government action is violence. Government does not create money, it must take it from others before it has any to spend. This involves violence (theft). Government does not allow individuals to live their lives as they see fit so long as they do no harm to others. Quite the contrary. Our government encarcerates more people than any other on the planet and most for ingesting chemicals the government does not approve of. Once again, violence against individuals because of government’s opposition to free choice. Our government currently has troops stationed in over 170 countries on earth in over 1200 bases. They take money by force from citizens in this country to give to tyrrants in other countries so they can oppress their own people (among other things). They fly drone aircraft over sovereign nations and shoot missles at people without due process, kill them, and consider anyone over the age of 15 and male a viable target if they are in the area. Our president maintains a “kill” list and has even ordered the assassination of 2 american citizens without due process (one a 16 year old). These drones kill hundreds of innocent men, women, and children in the process (even if our lapdog media don’t bother to cover this on the evening news). Our government is currently waging a financial and economic embargo against the people of Iran because it does not like their government. At least 50% of the people in this country do not like our president and over 80% do not like our congress. We hold elections every 2 years, cannot seem to fix our problems with goverment, yet we condemn 45 million Iranians to starvation and death because they will not get rid of their government. In the 90’s our sanctions led to the deaths of 1.5 million Iraqis including 500,000 children. Madeline Albright, our secretary of state said on 60 minutes that she felt these deaths were “worth it” to achieve regime change in Iraq (as if that is up to us to decide).
So when we speak of violence, we do not need to look to the TV, video games, the internet, or our inner cities. Violence begins at the very core of our society – our government. Government by some definitions is the group of people who reserve the right of legalized violence in a given geographic area. Are they really anything but? The moral behavior we expect and demand of our fellow citizens becomes irrelevant when we discuss government and the things it does (sometimes on our behalf – theft).
Just what kind of violence to YOU endorce with your vote and your political beliefs? Our children aren’t missing the messages we are sending about right and wrong.
OldTimer
December 14th, 2012
8:28 pm
This is not acceptable. A society cannot tolerate it’s kindergartners being slaughtered. It’s time for action.
Jessica
December 14th, 2012
8:44 pm
Homeschool mom, I’m right there with you. What happened today is heartbreaking, and it reminded me that one of the many reasons we are homeschooling our kids is safety. I know we can’t protect them from everything, but that’s no excuse not to try, especially when they are little.
I would love to see public schools become safe and effective learning environments, but I doubt that will happen any time soon. I think it’s high time for concerned citizens, churches, and parents to stop wasting their efforts on trying to fix public education, and instead help as many kids (and good teachers) as possible get out of defenseless, faithless, hopeless government schools.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
8:50 pm
Violence abounds, good essay.
______________
That Breivik guy killed 69 people, mostly teenagers, in Norway in 2011, in a country with lots of services. He planned it out and did it on an island during a retreat so that the victims were defenseless. At trial, Breivik claimed he was sane, however he was “diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder.” (by the way, according to lore, personality disorders are treatable but not curable). One difference in Norway and the U.S. is that the U.S. has repeated events of this type. In Norway, “Breivik’s usage of shooter video games has sparked debate about further censorship in violent video games”
This kind of hard to read in the current context of things, but here it is. “When Breivik was four, two reports were filed expressing concern about his mental health, concluding that Anders ought to be removed from parental care” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
George
December 14th, 2012
8:52 pm
It is way past time to stop the continuing escalation of violence in movies and video games. Our young people have become hardened to the blood, and violence by constant exposure to it. It seems the solution to most problems in video games is mass killing.
Henry Keith Noble
December 14th, 2012
8:56 pm
There is no way to say the hurt can be understood it cant
it is with great sorrow that i write this statement.
we as a people let the Government take GOD OUT OF OUR SCHOOLS well without GOD there is only evil ……….. i am not going to push GOD ,JESUS or the HOLY SPRITE ON YOU but it is for sure there is evil in this country so i pray mercy oh LORD mercy and this is it.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
9:03 pm
Mental illness caused it?
Yes, and denial is not just a river in Egypt.
A mentally ill man in China busted into an elementary school recently, weilding a knife and WOUNDED 22 children.
WOUNDED is the key word here, not murdered.
Those children lived.
One can survive being cut with a knife. One rarely survives a bullet.
We cannot prevent mental illness; we can only treat it.
We CAN PREVENT gun violence by outlawing them.
Of course, people around here love their guns as much as they love their football.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
9:04 pm
According the information, Breivik’s mother had borderline personality disorder ( which means being a severe / psychotic bully ) and he experienced severe psychological abuse at a very young age, which is why the early report recommended that he be removed from the home – for his own good. At trial “Breivik displayed inappropriate and blunted affect and a severe lack of empathy.”
eddie willers
December 14th, 2012
9:07 pm
OldTimer: This is not acceptable. A society cannot tolerate it’s kindergartners being slaughtered. It’s time for action.I’m an oldtimer myself (61) and remember Charles Whitman, Columbine and Virginia Tech. But this is the first time (that I am aware of) where kindergartners were targeted. Short of JFK and 9/11, this is the most awful crime in my lifetime. All that being said, though, a once in a lifetime crime that in all likelihood will never be repeated, it is not the baseline in which to set policy. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, “Hard cases make bad law”.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
9:17 pm
PS Personality disorders tend to be created by something real intense happening to a person when they are little, hence that they are not curable and have become a part of the person, so to speak. They are basically a defense mechanism that the brain invents. For the very young this then becomes a part of their make-up sort of how a tree grows around a fence and encapsulates it.
The news reports on the tragedy today are now saying that the person was “believed to suffer from a personality disorder”
Personality disorders are complex stuff, come in differing forms. The professional methods and diagnoses lore changes over time. Not too long ago, very little was said about borderline personality disorder in particular. It is only in the last decade or so that people have starting writing books specific to it. One of the problems with it is that hardly anyone knew what was. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/personality-disorders/DS00562
Call It Like It Is
December 14th, 2012
9:23 pm
Now is the time for mourning, not knee jerk reaction. Society can come up with any law it chooses, a sick mind will still figure out to do harm. Good sane people follow laws, criminals and the sick do not. We have had guns throughout our history as a country. Many many men brought weapons back from WWII, we didnt have these mass killings, why do we have them now? That is the question
catlady
December 14th, 2012
9:24 pm
Centrist, check joe’s post earlier
Dave
December 14th, 2012
9:27 pm
Of course there are words. This, and the one before and the one before and so on are heinous crimes committed by mentally and morally incompetent people that we would rather let run loose than implement even minimal gun control laws. Oh the terrible nature of what they did. That was fine say back at Columbine. Now not so much. We bear a bit of responsibility at this point.
true sorrow
December 14th, 2012
9:42 pm
@pride and joy
I understand emotions run high but step back for moment; gun control much like “drug control” has limits. If a person can purchase any drug they want 24 hours a day then getting a gun would be just as easy for a person that does not care about the law to begin with. If we outlaw all guns; then they would just create a gun cartel.
Gun free zones are where every mass shooting has occured, WHY? because the shooter is a coward and only wants to go after “soft” targets.
Give the person at the school tools to do something: research how the shooter at Pearl MS was stopped,
This is what one insane person can do; what if a group of terrorist enter a school; and yes, it has happened in other countries; there must be some form of response team at the school. less than lethal means to slow or misdirect the “bad” guys away from our children
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
9:52 pm
eddie willers, this made me think of the UT clock tower tragedy / Whitman (1966?). I had a professor who recounted how he was in the building when it happened, he was working on his master’s thesis and made to go outside, pressed against the building, seeing the whole thing on the ground happen in front of him. Whitman had a scope and killed a guy in a barbershop sitting in the chair getting his hair cut. they said there was nothing that he could not hit. Anyway, when I became of the Whitman tragedy, I thought to myself, “this is extraordinary, there must be a cause.” Then I read that when they did an autopsy of Whitman, there was a tumor pressing against his brain, but that the official report at the time refused to attribute cause. Yep. It’s all online now, right out front re: Charles Whitman and his brain tumor “highly aggressive and invariably fatal brain tumor) in the hypothalamus” and likely effect on behavior / emotion. But this was in 1966. A freak thing in its terribleness, but it supports cause / effect.
The two guys at Columbine were upset because the building administration punished them for various things and treated them as outsider, but the same administration gave the student athletes a free pass and did not punish them for various antics, behaviors. The administration was double-dealing on campus with the students (according the lore)(how would I know).
This thing that happened today, there is no way to relate to it at present, at least for me. Kind of like an EMS worker, when doing triage, the feeling part shows up later. Every condolence and respect to the parents and town. I am truly saddened, as we each must be for their profound misfortune. To even type words or comment seems inappropriate. There are various explanations from the world’s religions for when things happen that should not happen and there is no other explanation.
Dave
December 14th, 2012
9:53 pm
true sorrow, I’d suggest that schools are the arena for shootings because that is where the shooter started going around the bend, not because they are “soft targets.” If it were otherwise this sort of thing wouldn’t happen elsewhere. Response teams? Good God. It would be an economic stimulus. Folks with guns in every school, theater, fast food restaurant and at major intersections. There’s a better way. Eliminate or at least minimize guns in the hands of crazy people.
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
December 14th, 2012
10:02 pm
One GUN allows many people to be killed, but 2 Guns allow many people to survive.
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
December 14th, 2012
10:04 pm
We took the BIBLE out of school. You know Bibles are given out in JAIL but can’t be in our schools. Maybe if Bibles were in our schools then we wouldn’t need so many Bibles in our jails.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
10:15 pm
I attended a Moslem funeral in Britain one time. A child had been run over by a police car, killed, and it was the policeman’s fault. The father’s stance was submission to the will of God. There was no blame to the police from the family. It was a very formal funeral, police were there as well. In the Moslem tradition, the child’s body was wrapped in clothe and there was no coffin. The funeral was outdoors at a cemetery grave site, very proper, very British. A ceremony was made and the child’s corpus was lowered into the grave. The only difference was the absence of coffin, wrapped white clothe instead (non materialistic). The father was a professional. It was a pretty high-end funeral, pardon me. It was really a beautiful experience to attend and to this day I am stunned? by the father’s devotion and faith, which was completely silent and also respectful to the officer who had the misfortune of committing the error to such effect for this family.
Old South
December 14th, 2012
10:17 pm
a once in a lifetime crime that in all likelihood will never be repeated, it is not the baseline in which to set policy
No, in fact there have been other elementary school targets. There are so damn many mass shootings you can’t keep up. Carlsbad CA elementary was hit by one of these guys not long ago.
The bottom line is America as a nation is the most advanced, rotting, nation ever to exist.
ellen
December 14th, 2012
10:20 pm
Why does anyone NEED automatic weapons, assault style guns? I’m OK for people having guns, but why have one that can kill masses of people? Is it really necessary in private hands? What say you NRAers?
Why not sell rocket launchers, tanks and bombs to private citizens? Where do we draw the line?
Babe
December 14th, 2012
10:21 pm
How do mentally people access guns? Why do we let this happen?
David Granger
December 14th, 2012
10:30 pm
How ironic that…when those brave teachers shepherded their students in the corner (so they wouldn’t be readily seen) and tried to calm and comfort them…when they all held hands and prayed, they were violating school system policy.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
10:34 pm
Dave, “response team” is a term used in the school house. It means certain people are trained in dealing with unusual situations. Generally, it means a “response” to a student who has gone off the rails, includes training in how to do restraint, etc. appropriately, care for the student, etc. Maybe it includes medical response training as would be appropriate to health situations, coordinating building staff who already have this medical training, that sort of thing. -Some story on the news, I think in Texas, kid falls out on the floor, someone rushes and get a defibrillator, saves the student’s life, that sort of thing.
bootney farnsworth
December 14th, 2012
10:46 pm
to all of you who are using this tragedy, today, to shill your stupid assed political points
GROW THE HELL UP. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?
there are grieving families trying to figure out how they will have the strength to go on tomorrow, and you trolls are playing political ping pong? in a whole lot of ways you are sicker than the animal who did this. in theory, you are supposed to know better. obviously not.
there is a time and place for the discussion you vultures want to have. but its not today.
Kevin
December 14th, 2012
11:02 pm
Dave, specifically, what gun control laws would you propose?
Because CT already has some pretty strict laws.
It’s easy to say therevsould be more laws. It’s harder to say what you would actually do.
Too bad that doesn’t stop morons like you from thinking before you post.
Forrest Gump
December 14th, 2012
11:40 pm
Our society can partially be blamed for this. This coward had no conscience. You don’t develop a conscience if you live a life with no consequences. We live in a society where parents don’t won’t their kids disciplined. We preach that we must be positive all the time and that kids must succeed in everything they do. Guess what that isn’t possible and then when a kid is faced with failure he can’t handle it.
Life is not alway fair and easy. Then when we raise kids making them believe it is and they find out it isn’t they can’t handle it. I hope the ACLU and the liberals that have pretty musch taken the ten commandments out of everything are happy. You may have played a big role in what happened today. The old school way is a hell of alot better than the new school way, no pun intended. We didn’t have idiots like this out there then.
O'Hanion
December 15th, 2012
12:08 am
It is with great sadness that our country hears of the tragedy that befalls our nation. Where we are all inclined to get on our political soap box regarding the pros & cons of the 2nd Amendment ,I think it is more important to come together as a nation and pray for the victims of this senseless slaughter.Satan is walking amongst and testing our faith. Shall we not bend to anger and blame but trust in Jesus our savior. Let satan the jaded angel not win by weakening our faith but wipe out evil with love , hope and faith. Remember what is written “Peace on earth and goodwill toward men”
Middle school teacher
December 15th, 2012
12:54 am
This is so heartbreaking and I cannot fathom the loss these parents are feeling. As a teacher, I have to admit that I have some concerns about several of my students. There are a few who we know are capable of “losing it” at any moment. I don’t think about my safety very often, but this tragedy is forcing me to reflect on the safety of my students and myself. I have to wonder if our administrators will be more diligent in addressing the actions of the students who are clearly dangerous and not just give them a warning and send them back to class? I know I am thankful every day for our resource officer. She is very visible around our campus…and yes, she has guns that are also visible.
Ask the Lord Back
December 15th, 2012
2:17 am
Hosea 4:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
Kujohn
December 15th, 2012
2:22 am
I don’t understand why is this a big story
This is a small price to pay for our right to bear arms the 2nd amendment
What’s the big deal its the new normal
Please don’t say prayers for the victims
Please support the NRA
GOD BLESS AMERICA
BANG BANG
true sorrow
December 15th, 2012
4:58 am
@dave
CT has done that; very strict gun control, but from what I understand the shooter took legal firearms from his mother; so not even placing a more strigent age policy on firearms would not have worked; there was a fire station near the school it was “around the bend” why didnt he go in there?
The sorrow I feel for the families and the anguish I have for the shooter has lead me to voice my concerns that something must be done, because we all know it will happen again even if there is gun control; the next time it may be bombs like in the Bath school incident or homemade carnage similar to the Cologne school massacre
Can school security be improved, YES. there has to be a better plan than to huddle in a corner
Andy
December 15th, 2012
6:17 am
Parents who bring a mentally ill child into this world are responsible for that child’s well-being for the rest of his life. Guns and security are not the issue here. Bad parents are. His father had not seen him since June? Unbelievable!
Tanner G
December 15th, 2012
6:23 am
Shame on our legislators for their pork barrel spending – driving our nation into bankruptcy – while failing to protect the youngest and most defenseless among us! Shame on our legislators and community leaders for prohibiting prayer in schools and pandering so pathetically to special interests with no sense of courage whatsoever. Shame on us as a society – as we fail on a daily basis to draw a line in the sand clearly defining right from wrong. A simple metal detector with a school resource officer assigned to it could have prevented all of this, plain and simple. But, as our federal government spends it way into an abyss from which we cannot return – tens of millions being spent to get elected into a high political office, and as we have witnessed prior mass killings in schools – we do nothing to prevent future incidents other than passing zero tolerance rules for students that have gotten a few 10 year olds busted for bringing pocket knives and BB guns to school. It is disgusting and it reflects our lack of moral integrity as a society. What’s more – it takes a mass homicide of small school children to finally get the Connecticut Governor to call for us to pray for those families. NOW it’s okay to pray! Unbelievable! We need only look into the mirror as a nation of people to see who is ultimately responsible for this – and we must admit that to ourselves prior to enacting new ways to prevent these tragedies.
Tanner G
December 15th, 2012
6:40 am
bootney-
Our political beliefs, views, and values reflect who we are as a society. Like it or not, it is politics that creates the governing framework for our communities across our country. So, when you say we are pigs for taking this moment to express our “politics” – in essence, you are saying that we shouldn’t express our beliefs, views, and values. You are the reason we have this gargantuan mess in front of us. My friend, if we cannot express ourselves during such a tragic moment as this – when is the time? We need to face reality and make some changes soon to slow the occurrence of these events way down. I know I have asked our Lord (I will admit here that I am a Christian) to be with those who have experienced a loss here. I think it is okay in the same forum for people to express their frustration with the fact that only vote buying lip service has been offered as a solution for this up to this point. Our judges and lawyers are worth protecting with metal detectors, but our school children are not? That’s preposterous!
Fun Size
December 15th, 2012
7:08 am
This story made me cry and still does as I wake this morning. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. The fact that so many are young children makes it even more heart breaking. I hope that God will comfort those directly impacted and watch over the rest of us.
Let others here discuss the cause and effect, laws, etc, In one interview I heard yesterday, a person was asked “How can God let this happen?” and the answer made me think :For many many years now, the USA has been focused on keeping God out of our schools. He did not load that gun or drive to the school to shoot innocent children (and adults). But I pray to Him for understanding and to protect us from our selves.
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
7:27 am
Kevin, you say CT already has some strict gun laws…but CT is a tiny state. Anyone can drive over the border to the next state and buy a gun. And look at the guns that were purchased by the shooter’s own mother — huge firepower.
The simple truth is GUNS KILL PEOPLE FASTER than other weapons.
A crazed man in China went and did the same thing only guns are illegal in China. So the crazed man used only a knife.
Well, guess what?
22 children were WOUNDED, not killed. NO ONE DIED.
That answers your gun control question and theories right there.
How many of the parents of the 20 murdered little children would trade the lives of their own children for a different law banning guns?
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
7:35 am
True Sorrow, you are flat out wrong.
Other countries that ban guns do not have the mass murders that we do.
China is the case in point. A crazed man went into an elementary school with a knife because guns were illegal. He stabbed 22 children and THEY ALL LIVED!
All wounded, not dead.
There is your proof. No theoriese to speculate upon.
When a crazed man is armed only with a knife, the outcomes are much, much better.
I’ll bet any one of those parents in CT would trade a gun law to again have their child living and breathing today.
DLink
December 15th, 2012
7:49 am
Loner, shunned? Went to the school and was an honors student, past tense. Uber wealthy neighborhood. Facebook. Goth. Killed his mother first.
Once had a friend who could have turned out like that. Wrote down lyrics for the band suicidal tendencies and got put on a suicide watch for it: military. I helped him make fun of the over-reaction and make lite of it. Sometimes, you just need a friend to stand by you in the rough spots to help you survive them, and Facebook isn’t the place to stand. The nurse in England? Facebook, twitter, social media, smart phones….
Support your friends in their time of need, try not to be hard on others – you don’t know their life circumstances; and don’t do it for Christmas. Do it all the time.
Good will to all, because, this sounds like a kid that could have used some.
Mary Sue
December 15th, 2012
7:56 am
Early reports of the shooter’s mother being a teacher at the school are false. She was not. There are some reports that she may have volunteered there or substitute taught, but none have been confirmed. The fact is, we will probably never know why this individual did what he did.
Jack ®
December 15th, 2012
8:15 am
The entertainment industry would go broke if they couldn’t sell violence and sex to our children. Instead of gun control, put an end to the garbage presented as entertainment that so impresses young minds.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
8:26 am
I’m going to say something that some people will not like, but my interest is in what is going on, that this might be a case of bitter autism -> turned delusional. Which if this is the case, means there needs to be treatment / resources / and removing stigma from mental illness, so people can get help like any other ailment. Except in the US “treatment for help for any ailment” has turned in a game of jingo with big power. Anyway, someone online said the person was autistic. If this is the case, reminds of a student I had who was autistic – bitter version. I was not scared of the student, but I could see the concern as the student was “scary.” Anyway, one teacher in the team declared the student was capable of doing some great violence, said as much as an active concern. Now, this tragedy in Connecticut, person is 20 years old. In other words, now does not have the social / professional network of the school environment to support them. Living at home rich suburb, mom and community are clueless as to the struggle and discomfort the severe autistic is dealing with, mom and community do not relate, provide no support of any kind to 20 year old autistic. This is like in the movie Rebel Without a Cause (1955), the parents are well-to-do and provide zero relating to their kids, every time the young adult kid asks for help, the parents shut them down or give them a bridge party (card game) type answer. Severe stress, untreated condition = going into condition of delusion = acting out. It sort of like an untreated cut on the hand or foot turns into blood poisoning, striations (red lines) appear up the swollen connected limp. Untreated, can lead to amputation or death from a simple cut or abrasion. Any physician knows this basic mechanism.
crankee-yankee
December 15th, 2012
8:43 am
Everyone needs to grieve and then just take a breath. As noted earlier by another poster, bad law comes from rapid responses (I’m paraphrasing). The cut-back in public mental health services in the last century is part of it and needs to be looked at, gun control only works if you can identify those who would wield them against the innocent, good luck with that. However, semi- and automatic weapon’s place is on the battlefield, not in the streets, that is a starting point for discussion.
Unfortunately, I have no confidence in the current crop of lawmakers (local nor national) to address the issues this tragedy invokes in a measured and reasonable debate. It will rapidly degenerate into political talking points, one-liners, name-calling and twisted factoids. Mark my words.
independent thinker
December 15th, 2012
9:08 am
Inane discussion about root causes of our daily parade of gun violence. We live in an NRA controlled state which has a history of wholesale gun sales to criminals and we wonder why there were 31,347 gun deaths in the US in 2009 versus 35 in England?
For you enlightened and horrified educators let me ask this:
1. Why does a Kindergarten teacher with a disturbed 20 year old living at home need two assault type weapons and a pistol to defend herself and should the principal have screened her for the possible event that unfolded?
2. As a teacher what have you done to discourage kids and parents from giving their little darlings violent video games??
3. As a high school teacher what have you done to ensure the odd kids who are not popular and appear dysfunctional get proper counseling and treatment?
4. What you done to ensure there is proper security at your school to keep anyone who is disturbed out of the schoo l(particularly close relatives of staff) and to have police readily on call?
God Bless the Teacher!
December 15th, 2012
9:19 am
God bless the children…
elementary teahcer
December 15th, 2012
9:26 am
Assessing security at schools is certainly wise in the wake of an event like this, but the fact is, the shooter will probably turn out to be someone who was known to the staff and would have been buzzed in anyway. The sad fact is, it could just have easily been a parent or brother to a student in the school. No matter how secure the school is, family members will be allowed in, and sometimes family members do horrible things! Many of the people in the next few weeks who will blame the school are the same ones who huff at teachers who ask them to return to the office to get a sticker before walking our halls, not that that would have made a difference in this case. How do you balance school safety while keeping it a warm and welcoming place? There is no answer to this kind of senseless violence! Well, perhaps there is at the larger societal level. I weep for those babies, teachers, staff and families!
Ga Tech Rules
December 15th, 2012
10:10 am
The weapons used were reportedly registered to the mother. Why a household with a known mentally unstable member would have even on firearm present is beyond me. If your household has an unstable member, please remove all firearms, don’t just lock them up. Remember, social isolation contributes to abnormal thoughts, if your child spends days alone playing video games, they are at risk. Get the child out doors to play with other children. It takes 20 years to grow monsters like the most recent mass murderer, so we need to change our child rearing habits now.
Just A Teacher
December 15th, 2012
10:21 am
I am sickened by the Atlanta Journal Constitution for reporting that the gunman was a teacher’s son. It is still posted as the headline of an article. If she was a teacher, why isn’t she listed on the faculty list. I will never trust the AJC again. They make up the “facts” and publish them. Shame on you, Maureen Downey and the AJC, for publishing this lie!
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
10:46 am
AJC going to do an article on “school security?” More “security” marketing, huh?
Maureen Downey
December 15th, 2012
11:05 am
@Just, As I noted, the details in this story are changing hourly. Yesterday, it was being reported that the mother taught at the school. Now, it is being reported that she did not. I have changed my blog to reflect the most current information, but I can assure you that the information on this crime will continue to change as the chaos subsides and the facts are considered in the cold light of day. All media reported that she worked at the school as that was apparently told to them by a source.
Maureen
(At 11:12 Saturday: I just read the local paper in Newtown and one of its stories still called the mom a teacher. So, the misinformation is not just a factor of distance; there apparently is real confusion around the mother’s connection to the school. It appears to be true that the guns belonged to the mother, raising the question that others have raised: With a son whose mental problems were apparently known — based on the older brother’s comments — why have so many guns? )
Just A Teacher
December 15th, 2012
11:29 am
@Ms. Downey . . . There really should be a printed retraction by the editorial department. As with most crimes like this, there will never be a satisfactory understanding of what happened. The faculty and staff acted professionally and heroically according to all reports. This is a very sad and mortifying event, and I mourn for all involved. God bless the Sandyhook Elementary community and my fellow educators everywhere.
Mikey D.
December 15th, 2012
11:31 am
How about a word of recognition for the heroism of the teachers who sprang into action and kept their students as safe and calm as reasonably possible? If they had lost their wits and allowed the situation to devolve even further into chaos, imagine how much worse it could have been…
God bless the families and the community, and keep and hold the little ones who were lost. Such a senseless tragedy.
Just A Teacher
December 15th, 2012
11:38 am
Thank you, Mikey!
Maureen Downey
December 15th, 2012
11:39 am
Mikey, I am certain that many stories of heroism will be told. We can talk about some of them once we know more about what happened. I have already read of some amazing responses by teachers, although, as the misinformation about the shooter’s mother suggests, we are not clear yet on what happened.
At this point, my thoughts are with everyone in that school building. They have faced the unthinkable. I am not sure what we can say to the families who lost children, mothers, aunts, friends, spouses, brothers, sisters. Their sorrow seems unbearable.
Maureen
Maureen Downey
December 15th, 2012
11:43 am
@To all, As new information emerges, it becomes even harder to make sense of why this young man did this:
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
11:58 am
bitter autism went off the rails, 20 years old, away from former school environment, not related to and likely not receiving treatment. no one recognised the condition. absent father, distanced brother. I’ve had at least two friends drift off in a similar manner, no one relating to or keeping an eye on them when crisis develops or is developing over several months, find the news later, “Why didn’t I keep in touch with them?” etc.
Go Blue
December 15th, 2012
12:16 pm
Yes, we will pray for the Conn. town and school, but all kinds of arguments must cease starting with the federal government.
When negativity get hold, it permeats everthing and everyone.
Maureen Downey
December 15th, 2012
12:17 pm
@To all, One of the stories emerging is of a 27-year-old teacher who hid her first graders in the closet and cabinets and told Lanza that they were all in the gym. He then shot and killed her. Also, there are stories about the principal confronting the gunman and dying as a result.
I expect we will hear more and more of such heroics.
Maureen
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
12:29 pm
I don’t want heroics. I don’t want teachers to have to die to save the students. Heroes couldn’t prevent 26 people from being murdered.
We need gun control today. Now.
The news reports that the gunman killed everyone WITHIN MINUTES…certainly it is only possible to kill that many people within minutes with guns. Knives aren’t as lethal.
We don’t need teachers to sacrifice their own lives and leave their own children orphans. We need to make it impossible for a lunatic to get a gun and kill.
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
12:34 pm
Private Citizen, you’re wrong. The father wasnt absent. The parents divorced when the gunman was 17 years old. This was an affluent, intact, educated family. This wasn’t the typical single mother bringing up boys without Daddy as is so prevalent here in Georgia.
The truth is, this heinous crime could easily have been prevented by outlawing all guns.
The 20 year old was an intelligent kid. He wasn’t obviously mentally ill.
Easy access to guns is what killed those innocent 20 children.
WITHIN MINUTES they were all dead. Just minutes. Knives aren’t as efficient at murdering as are guns.
Dave
December 15th, 2012
12:42 pm
Kevin, last night at 11:02 p.m. “Too bad that doesn’t stop morons like you from thinking before you post.”
I don’t lay out a plan for gun control and I’m a moron?
I have actually thought about gun control a lot. How’s this for starters. Treat guns like we treat cars and driver’s licenses. Mandatory safety classes and meaningful testing prior to getting a license which screens some of the crazies, I know you won’t get them all. Registration each year and only if a meaningful check shows you aren’t now a felon, do you get to keep the gun(s). Don’t come in to register? Bench warrant. Some sort of insurance program or product liability law funded by registration fees and manufacturer taxes that pays the social cost of firearms and perhaps keeps them out of the hands of the young people that seem to be attracted to the idea of going out in a blaze of glory. Perfect ideas that will solve all of the problems that guns bring to us, of course not, but a start.
Your turn Kevin, lets actually talk, or I get to call you a moron.
Prof
December 15th, 2012
1:06 pm
@ Bootney Farnsworth, Dec. 14, 10:46 pm. My gut-reaction to this blog was exactly yours. Too sickened to write much here.
Jerry Eads
December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm
I can’t even listen to the news, for all I can think of is how I would feel if my now 30-year old kid would have been one of those, and how I might have had to go through life without him – AND having lost him this way. I give my heart to the parents of those kids now gone. They are the ones who will go on with holes in their hearts forever.
I have a permit. I am very – very – well trained. I carry. And I think the NRA is irresponsible. It is inconceivable to me that that organization espouses the positions it does.
I do not know where we start. It MUST include better societal control of weapons far beyond what the NRA and others have suppressed it to, yet it must also include, as Tavis noted on Jay’s show last night, attention to mental health issues in this country – which we do indeed try to ignore. Like the terrorists we try to guard against, the killer had no qualms whatsoever about taking innocent life. A terrorist in our own midst.
Perhaps this will finally force the conversation we need to have here. But I don’t expect much help from Republican elected officials – they’re as terrified of the NRA as they are of Norquist.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
1:12 pm
Go Blue, there is no negativity in giving attention to the condition of things. Quite the opposite.
Pride and Joy, Certainly we will become more informed re: cause. I think you make a good point about the nature of automatic weapons. Someone commented somewhere that they belong on the battlefield, not in the public. Same reason people can’t own bazookas and such, armaments. You say the person was bright, not mentally ill, and came from good family. Makes me wonder if you have know many people. One of those people, Anders in Norway, or Charles Whitman, had IQ of 170 when they were a child. Anyway, more will be known about cause. I wonder why, in your imagination you see “rosy life / hard shell exterior.” I contend rich kids often have more difficult environment sometimes than poor people with available family. But this is just banter.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
1:22 pm
Jerry Eads, good post. when an ill person goes delusional, there’s just a cartoon in the head, like the “Batman movie” theater tragedy in Colorado. Guy acts out movie like a comic book. Probably made a lot of sense to him. He even sought help, gave a notebook to a professional, no meaningful response. Reading online about ill people, personality disorder, etc. traumatic divorce doesn’t exactly help them out. Who knows what conditions are / were for this person. News say the local authority has developed / found cause, is in process of making written statement to public.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
1:26 pm
In the depression era, movies showed person jumps out of window with umbrella, floats to ground. Some people jumped out of window with umbrella and fell straight down and broke legs. I think this really happened. Happens today, rarely, when adolescents copy the wrestling on tv and “body slam” their peer. It happened in a classroom at a school I was at, kid grabbed another kid, turned him upside down to do “pile driver” head first toward floor. Pardon if this is a little graphic, but that is what happened. Maybe adolescents should be formally taught / told not to replicate tv theatrical wrestling. Some of them don’t know.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
1:38 pm
it might be a real good thing to get all of this “Glock” and “9mm” stuff out of culture and real life. I went and bought a saw from a guy on Craigslist. I get the address. It’s in an apartment complex. Dude answers the door all cracked-out or whatever, eyes real bloodshot, lips dried out, no shirt, and with a big huge pistol stuck in the front pocket of his baggy jeans and no lights on in the apartment. Craziest scary thing I’ve ever seen. I didn’t expect it. Said he liked to “protect himself.” Dude was “livin’ on the edge.” I was glad to get out of there and it really shook me up and not in a good way. He explained himself saying he got a work injury and could no longer work. Who knows if it was an addict story of if there was truth in it. Dude looked like he needed to be institutionalised and put back together. He wasn’t that old, either, not more than 25. He had completely gone off the rails, was not going to be “getting a job” anytime soon.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
1:45 pm
I should have called 911 on the guy, except they would have put him in prison, not provided help.
Lee
December 15th, 2012
2:36 pm
Whenever there is an incident such as this, the Pavlovian response is “abolish guns” and more restrictive laws.
If Adam Lanza had driven his mother’s car through a playground full of students, would we be calling for the abolition of automobiles and more “drivers ed”? I think not. Timothy McVeigh used common fertilizer and fuel to murder 168 people – including children in the daycare. I can still go to the feed store and buy tons of it – do it every spring.
Who knows what was going on in this young man’s mind in the months and weeks before this horrific crime. Most rational folks will never understand. It’s simply beyond our comprehension.
BTW, the misinformation put out by the news media in the first few hours was astounding. But that’s a topic for another day.
Proud Educator
December 15th, 2012
2:38 pm
None of us have the answers to what happened. All we can do is love our children, pray for the families of the victims, and be more supportive of each other. I didn’t want to respond to some of the posts, but I was afraid that there was going to be more of the dump on public education syndrome. It’s unfortunate that so many blame all of society’s ills on public education: schools aren’t safe, what the teachers need to do, etc. This should just be a time for remembrance and prayer, not finger pointing.
Maureen Downey
December 15th, 2012
2:57 pm
@To all, The AJC has a story online now about the challenges in reporting this story: Among the points:
— For hours on Friday, the shooter was identified as Ryan Lanza, with his age alternatively reported as 24 or 20. The confusion seemed partly explainable when it was determined that 20-year-old Adam Lanza, the shooter who had then killed himself, was carrying identification belonging to his 24-year-old brother.
This case of mistaken identity was painfully reminiscent of the Atlanta Olympics bombing case in 1996, when authorities fingered an innocent man, and the news media ran with it, destroying his life. Such damage was averted in Ryan Lanza’s case largely by his public protestations on social media, repeatedly declaring “It wasn’t me.”
— Initial reports differed as to whether Lanza’s mother, Nancy, was shot at the school, where she was said to be a teacher, or at the home she shared with Adam Lanza. By Friday afternoon, it was determined that she had been shot at their home.
Then doubts arose about whether Nancy Lanza had any link to Sandy Hook Elementary. At least one parent said she was a substitute teacher, but by early Saturday, an official said investigators had been unable to establish any connection with the school.
That seemed to make the massacre even more confusing. Early on, the attack was said to have taken place in her own classroom and was interpreted by more than one on-air analyst as possibly a way for Adam Lanza to strike back at children with whom he felt rivalry for his mother’s affection.
— Lanza’s weapons were listed as two pistols (a Glock and a Sig Sauer) as well as a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, but whether that rifle was used in the school or left in the trunk of Lanza’s car remained unclear.
— There were numerous versions of what Lanza was wearing, including camouflage attire and black paramilitary garb.
Grob Hahn
December 15th, 2012
3:17 pm
I’m sure putting the staff ahead of the children was just a Freudian slip eh Maureen?
Grobbbbbbbbbbbb
Mandella1099
December 15th, 2012
3:38 pm
If anyone wants absolute proof that the posters on DeKalb School Watch II have gone off into the deep end, just head over there now. Their current posts are connecting the shooting and death of 20 children to their desire to see the teacher-pupil ratio reduced in DeKalb – sick, sick, SICK
Mandella1099
December 15th, 2012
3:43 pm
This is what DeKalb Schools Watch II takes from the death of children:
“Our hearts go out to the victims of this terrible event in Connecticut. Certainly our security staff is on alert, however, there is never a complete guarantee of safety. The school in CT had really good security. There is really nothing more the people of that community could have done to prevent this. The teachers and staff who protected their students and shielded their eyes from the carnage are brave, caring souls and did their jobs with courage and focus – just as we’re sure our teachers and staff would do. That said, one thing we could do is ensure that the ratio of adults to students is kept to a certain standard in every building in our county so that in the event of any kind of tragedy, the adults in charge do not have too many students to protect at one time.”
Mandella1099
December 15th, 2012
3:46 pm
And from a follow-up blogger/supporter (absolutely no editing here after the colon):
“one thing we could do is ensure that the ratio of adults to students is kept to a certain standard in every building in our county so that in the event of any kind of tragedy, the adults in charge do not have too many students to protect at one time.”
This. Bravo.
mountain man
December 15th, 2012
3:49 pm
“I should have called 911 on the guy, except they would have put him in prison, not provided help.”
So you left him out there on the street, not knowing if he was going to go blow away a bunch of kindergarteners?
Old South
December 15th, 2012
4:20 pm
So, Las Vegas had a shooting in one of its Hotels. A hospital was the scene of several shots.. All after this event.
Folks, this is our new normal. And it’s not new, it’s been going on for years. Washington DC is full of mad-men who simply do not care about your life. They’ll say that they do, but this is all political. Obama may have been sad, but he’s a fool if he is surprised. We’ve already had elementary schools be the site of active shooters and we will again.
This is normal in the United States.
Old South
December 15th, 2012
4:30 pm
Why would any one be surprised at this? How can you not expect one of the millions of deranged citizens to eventually hit a school? Other elementary schools have already been hit, so why all shock?
We’ve accepted this as normal in America. Monday could very well bring another.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
4:33 pm
Mountain Man, I did not witness this person do anything illegal, and they were in calm/ good spirits, but it was weird. Unlike you, I do not project things onto people. The situation was alarming but danger was not the key thing. It was something else. I think the person needed help. I am guessing he may have been fencing (selling) stolen stuff. I didn’t want to bust him and then me pay for the incarceration, too. I think we have enough of that already. It was a weird scene, though. Who knows, maybe he was a “trader” and all the junk he had was legitimate. Point is it was a nice apartment complex, so being armed for battle seemed a little strange. I also did not want to give the police the satisfaction of practicing their swat team maneuvers because I don’t want them tuned up and doing it to me because they have the wrong address. No thank you. The present gun culture is not just limited to individuals.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
4:48 pm
I saw one of his neighbors and asked direction to the apartment. The neighbor did not seem too alarmed and lived within eyesight, close by. But it was a weird scene. “Gun Culture” and these current guns do not even have much personality. They’re square and boxy. Guy looked like he needed to be put in the car and taken to the hospital. Doesn’t work that way here, though. Let me ask you something, maybe rhetorically, if your neightbor is all whacked out, can you put them in the car and take them to the hospital? If they fall of a ladder you can. If their eyes look like red
Draino and their lips are cracked, I don’t think the hospital wants to see them. Oh, my friend tells me today that a local guy he knows just died in his bed at 39 years old. Somebody went to check on him, saw him through a window, he was in bed not moving and his face was blue, so the person kicked in the door. Messin’ with that stuff. It’s not like there’s a treatment center with the door propped open.
Violence abounds
December 15th, 2012
4:58 pm
Watch this video. Watch to see what the news says this shooter was taking. Get your kids off the psychoactive drugs. Get yourself off the psychoactive drugs.
http://youtu.be/UhO0Pul_FcE
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
5:19 pm
Mandella, your fantasy solution is silly. Bullets don’t distinguish between adults and children. A bullet will rip through an adult body as quickly as that of a child’s. We’re all flesh and blood.
You seem to be going way out of your way to avoid the obvious solution – do away with guns.
The gunman didn’t even need his own gun. The guns belonged to his mom, a normal, sane woman. The shooter stole them from her and murdered her too.
The fantasy that if only gun owners were educated and careful, no murders would happen is silly.
We cannot prevent mental illness; we can only treat it.
As long as we allow guns, we allow and encourage murder.
No one should be shocked at this news. It happens all the time. Children are murdered everyday by guns. 30,000 people in the US die every year from guns. THIRTY THOUSAND PEOPLE DIE IN THE US EVERY YEAR FROM GUNS!
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
5:38 pm
That’s a good point. Was the person taking an SSRI, i.e Prozac?
News 2 Me
December 15th, 2012
5:59 pm
Our country refuses to control Illegal Aliens from invading this country, what makes you think we can control Guns any better than we already do? Illegal aliens smuggle drugs and guns into this country on a habitual basis. We need to banish those that don’t belong here before we can expect our own American psychos to stop destroying our country.
God Bless the victims, their families and the Newtown, CT community!
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
6:03 pm
BBC is running a story of what happened. It is really horrible.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
6:21 pm
New 2 Me, You have it backwards. They take firearms sold in the U.S. and take them into Mexico to arm the drug cartels.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
6:44 pm
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html
true sorrow
December 15th, 2012
8:09 pm
@Dave
I am an ultra conservative and I was having the same thoughts about placing age limits on weapons; the founding fathers made age limits for certain things perhaps it is an idea that we can extend; saftey classes no problem; magazine capacity, lets actually have an open discussion about those.
If some want to compare the US to China plz you go ahead and move there; I know trolls try to stir things up; but the second amendment was put in the constitution for a reason it was to protect against tyranny.
Pride and Joy
December 15th, 2012
11:02 pm
true sorrow, if you don’t like my China example, look for real, civilized countries like Great Britain and Canada. They have gun control laws and very very few murders with guns.
Violence abounds
December 15th, 2012
11:29 pm
Two generations ago kids in rural areas walked to school with their .22 caliber rifles, put them in their lockers, and walked home again with them. Along the way, they stopped to shoot at cans, rocks, bottles, etc. and IT WAS NO BIG DEAL. This is not about age limits or anything of the kind. Kids had the right examples set at home by parents who cared. They had the right examples set in society by people who treated each other with far more respect (for their privacy, their rights, the fruits of their labor, their freedom).
Here’s a thought. Since laws can fix all problems (most here seem to think that), let’s pass a law against murder. Let’s pass a law against using a gun to kill someone. Let’s pass a law against bringing a gun to a school. Let’s pass a law against killing your mother and stealing her guns and then taking them to a school and killing 20 kids and 6 adults. Awesome, problem solved!
Criminals don’t obey laws.
Guns don’t kill people…people on anti-depressants and other prescription psychoactive pharmaceuticals kill people. Please do yourself a favor and watch this video:
http://youtu.be/UhO0Pul_FcE
Then keep watching the news and see if any news media outlet even talks about what this kid was taking. I will bet that it will be covered up as quickly as the drugs the kids in Columbine were taking.
Private Citizen
December 16th, 2012
7:19 am
Ice Cream truck delivery driver in Atlanta told me that when he was a high school student in Colorado, they (students) carried their rifles walking down the hall inside the school. Sounds like Swtizerland where every home is required to have a rifle. I wonder, the Swiss probably have regulation over other weapons besides rifle.
Porter
December 16th, 2012
7:25 am
Newtown: Let there be a New Town all over America, let not the sacrifice of these babes, these precious children go for naught. Let there be a revival for prayer and for a renewed relationship with the Savior. His blood and His sacrifice is the only true power against evil. Seek Him everyone this Christmas season, especially the lost and the hurting. May the spirit of truth prevail, Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. +++
Cobb History Teacher
December 16th, 2012
8:20 am
@ true sorrow
My thoughts exactly. I actually had a conversation very recently with my AA and Principal about this. Having a military back ground (I’m a guardsman) we learn a lot about security and targets of opportunity. Schools are soft targets not only for psychopaths but also for terrorist. It may be time the government ans the school systems begin to thin about how to combat this potential. As abhorrent as it may seem to suggest arming teachers. The idea of a group of teachers who are trained to react and have access to a weapon locked in their room might not be a bad idea. The idea of confiscating all this in country like ours is a fantasy as we have too many “preppers” and people who will not give them up not to mention too many machinists who could replicate missing parts and or manufacture whole new firearms.
Pride and Joy
December 16th, 2012
8:31 am
This quote “The idea of a group of teachers who are trained to react and have access to a weapon locked in their room might not be a bad idea.”
comes straight out of the head of a nut job.
You DARE to advocate arming teachers in order to fight violence?
You are certifiably crazy.
anon
December 16th, 2012
11:18 am
Pride and Joy,
My spouse and I are right there with you. We’re devastated. This could have happened to one of our little boys. It’s horrible, and it could happen so easily here. We have more than our share of lunatics and guns in Georgia, and there will always be a certain percentage of the population with personality disorders (including sociopaths). A lot of these people are high-functioning and able to conceal their conditions until they commit their heinous crimes (or we figure out that they’re the serial killers we’ve been hunting for years).
We need common-sense gun control. And we need something like the Australian law, where they paid people to bring guns that were already on the streets. We’ve been talking a lot about how much safer we would feel sending our kids to school in Australia, Canada, the UK, or just about any other western democracy. Why are we so insane about guns in this country? And why does anyone need a semi-automoatic weapon for hunting? It doesn’t seem very sporting. In fact, nothing beyond a cross-bow seems very sporting when you’re hunting animals that can’t fight back (i.e., just about every animal you find in the wilds of the US). I would also like to see criminal and civil liability imposed on gun owners who allow their guns to get into the hands of those who commit crimes. That kind of negligence warrants jail time. I hope the victims’ families sue the perpetrator’s estate. The mother enabled these crimes by having the guns in her home. She bears a fair amount of responsibility for her son’s crimes, and her estate should be held responsible. And if it turns out that any of the father’s guns were used, he should be held responsible, too.
Serious and effective gun control laws will become more feasible in the coming years, thanks to changing demographics in the electorate and expected changes in the composition of the Supreme Court. Both Justices Scalia and Kennedy are nearly 80, and Justice Scalia does not appear to take great care of himself, so a retirement could happen in the next four years. DC v Heller was wrongly decided. It would be great to see it reversed, and we would only need one retirement from the conservative wing to see that happen.
true sorrow
December 16th, 2012
11:20 am
@history teacher
I have done some research and it seems that plan is very plausible; license teachers as aux. deputies (they would have to have peace officier training) and then you have numerous police at the school; the SRO would coordinate at the school level.
long time educator
December 16th, 2012
1:23 pm
Her is a link to a blog a mother of a troubled child wrote. It is troubling and frightening.
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html
Andy M.
December 16th, 2012
1:25 pm
@pride and joy- “Knives are not as efficient as guns.” “Knife wounds are survivable.” How do you explain 9/11? 19 terrorists killed almost 3k people using nothing more than knives and box-cutters to kill the pilots, crew and assume control of the aircraft. Seems pretty efficient to me if your plan is sound and carried thru as laid out. Lets talk about how many lives have been saved in the last 48hrs by a gun or the mere presence of a gun. Oh….we can’t, that doesn’t fit the media’s or your template that “guns are bad”, so that won’t get any airtime or space. Lets talk about the guns used, the very same weapons that our police use, so maybe the cops shouldn’t have them either if they are so bad an un-neccesary. Cops are the good guys you say? Granted , the vast, over-whelming majority are, but did it occur to you how many cops we have in this state who carry a weapon who would not be able to get a carry permit due to a blemish on their record, such as a domestic abuse conviction or other felony? Yet we allow them carte blance to carry a gun anywhere, even around our kids. Scott Peterson comes to mind. You say you don’t want heroics or teachers having to engage a mad lunatic. Well, I’m sorry, the world is not as you would have it. Here’s a story I want you to read and tell me that a gun in the hands of an educator didn’t save lives http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/1997-mi-school-principal-captures-mass-murderer-with-his-45-colt/ Lets talk about your idea that folks don’t need semi-auto rifles or handguns for hunting for defense. I personally think that a 60 or 70 year old man doesn’t need a Corvette or Mustang GT but I seem them driving them all of the time. What could they possibly need with that much horsepower? It’s called personal freedom. They can buy whatever car they want and I should be able to own whatever firearm I choose just as you have the right to disdain them.
Andy M.
December 16th, 2012
1:35 pm
OMG, we must outlaw hammers now. Maybe if he had only been attacked with a knife, he would have lived, eh P & J?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/16/florida-man-accused-killing-neighbor-with-hammer/?test=latestnews
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
December 16th, 2012
3:28 pm
An ignorant people will not long remain free.
Look at this highly credible report of the now “unrecognized” two shooters who were in police custody after attempting to flee their “Operation Gladio” slaughter of innocents as the same Rockefeller-Bush/Rothschild faction we know built Big Oil on murder and arson, funded Hitler, killed JFK and MLK, gave us Waco, OKCity, 9/11 and the “Batman Massacre,” strikes again…for LIBOR coverup and to maintain their Fed Scam JFK gave his life to end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_fI0hm1dqY&feature=share
Pride and Joy
December 16th, 2012
6:03 pm
For every 100 people in the US, there are 88.5 guns.
Just think about that and let it sink in for a while.
We are already armed to the teeth. Giving more guns to more people is just stupid.
The gunman didn’t own any guns. He stole them. He took his assault rifle and blew his way through the front door of the school. Even if the principal and teachers were also packing heat and had a loaded pistol in their closet, the assault rifle could blow through the walls killing everyone before a teacher could get her gun out of the locked cabinet.
Then how are you going to protect the kids as they walk out of the school to the bus? A sniper with an assault rifle could pick them off there or when the bus pulled away. Assault rifles tear through the metal on a bus.
Arming teachers won’t prevent a single death.
More people die from their own guns than they kill intruders.
Most deaths from private citizens with guns are caused by accidents at home: children find the gun and kill themselves or a sibling, parents get in an argument and kill one another and so on.
GUNS KILL PEOPLE.
That’s what they were meant to do and they do it very efficiently.
Other countries with gun control don’t have nearly as many gun deaths.
All gun toting individuals are merely compensating for the power they feel they don’t have in their lives. They’re “making up” for feelings of inadequacy.
Short P$nis? Get a gun.
Poor and disenfranchised? Get a gun.
mountain man
December 16th, 2012
6:10 pm
“If Adam Lanza had driven his mother’s car through a playground full of students, would we be calling for the abolition of automobiles and more “drivers ed”? I think not. Timothy McVeigh used common fertilizer and fuel to murder 168 people – including children in the daycare. I can still go to the feed store and buy tons of it – do it every spring.”
If Adam Lanza had driven his mother’s car into the playground of students, I believe the death toll would have been MUCH less. Cars are not designed to efficiently kill people; they are designed for transportation.
And Timothy McVeigh did NOT blow up the federal building with just fertilizer and fuel – there was a lot more involved to get it to detonate. Just try to make a fertilizer – fuel bomb (and the Feds will be on you like white on rice, faster than you can think). How are you going to detonate it? I know about this stuff. There are REGULATIONS concerning explosives, and a LOT of enforcement. Guns that fire a hundred rounds a minute and magazines that hold thirty rounds each and can be changed in seconds – very little regulation. We have no idea how many of those guns are out there or who owns them – maybe the crazy who thinks YOUR six-year-old offended them.
mountain man
December 16th, 2012
6:12 pm
And also, Lee, we have a lot of REGULATION about who can drive a car, also. Registration, driver’s license, age limits. More than we have for assault rifles.
Pride and Joy
December 16th, 2012
6:57 pm
To Maureen,
Regarding waste, fraud and abuse, the principal of Mary Lin elementary showed everyone the proposed plans for the renovation/addition at Mary Lin Elementary school. It includes a private bathroom for the principal.
I think it is ridiculous to provide a principal of a school with his own private bathroom. Bathrooms are in short supply at the school and teh design could be easily changed to provide an outside opening so that others can use the bathroom.
Would love to see a blurb on this Get Schooled blog about it.Here are the proposed plans
http://www.atlanta.k12.ga.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/1540/MLES_A100_Plan_Main_OVERLAY.pdf
true sorrow
December 17th, 2012
5:51 am
we are way behind on these subjects; found out a school district already allows armed teachers
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2009/aug/06/packed-for-school/