Student grades: Are schools using grades to prod parents to comply with rules, deadlines?
Sally Harrell is the parent of two children. As a three-term member of Georgia House of Representatives, she served on the House Education Committee. The DeKalb resident has also served as a co-president of the Emory-LaVista Parent Council.
Harrell sent me an interesting piece on a topic that we have touched on in the past: Grading students on non class-related actions.
In her note, Harrell wrote, “For a few years now I have suspected that teachers knowingly use grades to obtain parental compliance. Graded homework is an example. But never has it been made so obvious to me than through the Georgia Cyber Academy’s grade category, called ‘advisement.’ Worth 5 percent of the student grade in academic subjects, it includes such things as reading parent handbooks, participating in parent/teacher conferences, agreeing to teach your child about Body Mass Index and registration with GA College 411. My burning question is: ‘Is it ethical to use student grades to obtain parental compliance?’”
She tackles that question in this guest column:
By Sally Harrell
For the last four years I’ve graded many papers. I didn’t assign letter grades; I merely marked answers wrong, or wrote comments in the margins when I thought something wasn’t quite right. But I’m not a teacher. I’m a former social worker who decided to teach my kids at home.
It didn’t take me long to realize that the value of checking papers lay in discussing the errors immediately with my children so that they could learn from their mistakes. There was simply no need for letter grades.
Then I remembered something that had troubled me during my children’s three year attendance at a traditional “brick and mortar” public school. They sometimes brought home a piece of paper that contained a test score, but the actual test was not attached. I didn’t get to see which problems my children missed, nor did my children ever see what they did wrong. I was horrified when I realized what a huge opportunity had been missed.
While the missed opportunity was disappointing, I still held out hope that grades indicate mastery. But what if a grade did not indicate mastery? Would it still be a grade?
Enter the state’s largest public, virtual, state-wide, charter school, the Georgia Cyber Academy. Yes, that’s quite a few adjectives. Take them one at a time and you’ll figure out what I’m talking about. I teach my kids at home using curriculum provided by the state, which contracts with a private company to run a state-wide “school” that enrolls approximately 12,000 students. I am provided a remote teacher who teaches some optional on-line classes, assigns grades, and holds phone conferences with me once a quarter.
Last year, along with my children’s report cards, I received the following explanation: “The letter grades shown are not intended to be an indication of your student’s knowledge level or mastery in any given subject area.”
So if grades are not about mastery, just what are they?
The school’s answer was, “They are intended to reflect your student’s progress in the on-line school, submitted writing assignments, blue ribbons earned in Study Island, and completion of Study Island monthly custom assessments.”
In other words, my child’s “A” was merely a reflection of whether or not he did the work. Grades were now detached from learning and mastery. So what’s left in a grade?
A lot.
Georgia Cyber Academy is the brainchild of the private, for-profit and publicly traded company K12, Inc. As with any publicly traded company, the bottom line is profit. During the last few years K12, Inc. has greatly expanded its market in public education by obtaining contracts with state and local governments to initiate virtual charter schools. Georgia has been one of K12’s most successful states in terms of the number of students enrolled.
In order to protect its state contract, Georgia Cyber Academy must put some effort into compliance. But often, in order for the school to be compliant, the school must ask parents to be compliant. Most important, parents must commit to ensuring that their children take the end-of-the-year state test (CRCT). But then there’s a long list of other tasks, some more necessary than others: conferences, signing off on handbooks, watching on-line orientations, signing disciplinary agreements, teaching students about Body Mass Index (state law), completing career assessments (state law), etc.
Parents must be compliant so that Georgia Cyber Academy can be compliant, so that K12 Inc.’s contract is protected, so that K12 looks good on the New York Stock Exchange.
This circles me back to grades. At Georgia Cyber Academy, five percent of the child’s grade is based on whether or not I, as the parent, complete the list of tasks above. It’s called “advisement,” and it amounts to one-half of a letter grade in academic subjects.
So, if I miss a conference, my child’s grade is marked down in math, reading, grammar, social studies and science. So what’s in a grade? Not mastery of learning, but government contract compliance and the New York Stock Exchange!
Whether your child attends a traditional, public “brick and mortar” school, a public charter school, or even a private school, it is in your best interest to ask what comprises your child’s grade. Although the example of the Georgia Cyber Academy is extreme, I would not be at all surprised to find such tactics being used in other educational institutions.
Grades have become commerce that translates into college entrance, scholarships and, yes, even stock values in the world of for-profit education. And many teachers and administrators have figured out that parents will do anything for a grade.
–from Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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86 comments Add your comment
Peter Smagorinsky
December 12th, 2012
5:29 am
In the schools I taught in in Illinois (1976-1990), we could only grade students on academic work, and would get overruled by the administration if our grading practices extended to anything else.
SGA Teacher
December 12th, 2012
5:47 am
Note the important point she makes: “private, for-profit and publicly traded company K1″
Translation: We can do whatever we want as far as grades go; you can deal with it or find another school.
Won’t be too long before this happens in Charter Schools, where parents will be *required* to do certain things in order to keep their child in charter schools.
And those who will complain most vociferously, will be the same ones who voted FOR charter schools.
Long live democracy and capitalism!
Pride and Joy
December 12th, 2012
5:56 am
I completely understand both sides of this argument. Teachers in brick and mortar schools want parental involvement but have no control over the parent. In those cases, the teacher can only ask. It is certainly not the child’s fault if his or her parent does not attend. However, the brick and mortar traitional school is not threatened if the parent does not attend.
If the cyber academy does not receive parental involvement it is not allowed to exist, therefore, the only option they have to enforce compliance is to affect a child’s grade, which still isnt’ fair.
I have found that parent-techer conferences are meaningless in Atlanta Public Schools. The teachers were late to the conference and they simply presented my childrens’ papers to me and asked questions that were an invasion of my private life. It was not a conference. It was simply a lecture. Ironically, my children are high-performers and well-behaved. I am intelligent, confident and educated. I can only imagine how intimidated some of the parents might have felt when talking to these teachers. It feels like teachers think of us as the enemy to be shot instead of the partners we truly want to be.
Back to the subject –
Parent-teacher conferences MUST BE meaningful for the parents. They must be a two-way conversation instead of a finger-pointing lecture.
The teachers need to be flexible with the times because most parents work. They need to be flexible and perform the conference over the phone if necessary or scan and fax the material to the parent over the Internet to an email account.
Punishing children for something the parent and teachers cannot or will not do is out of the question, of course, or parental involvement needs to be a separate grade for the cyber academy — give the parents a grade for parental involvement AND GIVE the teacher a grade for the conference too measuring things like flexibility, timeliness and quality of the conference.
If we are going to grade the adults we have to grade ALL the adults — including the teacher.
Pride and Joy
December 12th, 2012
6:02 am
SGA your prediction that charter schools will not have to follow the law is silly.
Charter schools using taxpayer money have to follow the same laws as traditional public schools.
Your scare tactics are tiresome and pointless. The charter amendment passed by a huge margin. Charters are here to stay and are growing. I just got an email for a new charter school in Atlanta near Clairmont and Briarcliff road, one that plans to teach children in two different languages, English, and another the parent chooses.
Claiming that charter schools will grade students on parent involvement is just a flat out lie and will certainly not affect people like me from wanting charter schools.
dc
December 12th, 2012
6:31 am
Let’s see…..you chose to enroll your child in this school. And now you are complaining about their requirements. Not really hard, MOVE. That’s the beauty of charters (ideally), you can choose to move to the school that best works for you and your child.
Now…..please quit writing as if this school is doing something wrong. You knew the rules (or at least had access to them), and chose to go there.
Dalton Whitfield
December 12th, 2012
6:42 am
@SGA Teacher
You are absolutely correct.
catlady
December 12th, 2012
6:47 am
Sally: H3ll, we can’t even hold STUDENTS accountable for what they have or haven’t done! Didn’t do homework? No problem. Made a 20 on a test? No problem. Refused to do anything in class? No problem.
Also, Sally, you ARE your child’s teacher. First and foremost.
And, finally, WHY did you sign your child up for a school that you don’t agree with? I mean, it’s not like you are ZONED there! Step up. Take responsibility for your actions!
Jack ®
December 12th, 2012
6:57 am
Body Mass Index. Somehow I managed to complete my studies without ever hearing about BMI. And I’ve never hired anyone with BMI being a consideration. I suppose I’m gonna have to change my job application forms and add a new line about BMI and delete the line that requires the applicant to be able to read and write.
Wilbur
December 12th, 2012
7:07 am
Petty vicious Public School advocates don’t seem to have an ounce of common sense or compassion.
AP History Teacher
December 12th, 2012
7:28 am
If parents dont want to teach their kids to behave, then I guess its left up to the teacher. Sad is that many kids have said, “You are more of a dad to me than my own parents.”
I dont normally connect parental compliance with my grade book, but you discover pretty quickly that kids are a smaller version of their parents. I usually try to reward responsibility, but those moments are rare.
I agree with catlady…fail a test…oh you can retake that test 2 additional times if preferred. Not turn in homework from August? Oh, you can turn that in at the end of the semester.
Sally just needs to buck up and accept the fact she CHOSE to send her kid there and if she cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Sally Harell- was/is she a Democrat during her time under the dome? I thought they hated charter schools. I wouldn’t expect anything but whining and hypocrisy from a politician.
Progressive Humanist
December 12th, 2012
7:32 am
In the assessment courses I teach I stress to students (undergraduates and graduates) that their k-12 instruction and assessment should focus solely on academics. In my courses, though, I do grade on professionalism/participation because part of what we are responsible for in certifying teachers is assessing that they are professional enough to be responsible for 150 children/adolescents/young adults on a daily basis.
mystery poster
December 12th, 2012
7:39 am
Ditto here, we are not allowed to assign grades for anything not content related.
Interesting irony here, Sally chooses to home school her kids, then complains when she has learn the content herself and grade their assignments.
mystery poster
December 12th, 2012
7:39 am
*oops.. when she has TO learn…
Truth in Moderation
December 12th, 2012
7:49 am
“Sally chooses to home school her kids”
Please note that “home school” is a legally defined term used in this state’s home school law. K-12 is a PUBLIC school, NOT a “home school.” True home schoolers have been complaining about this deliberate confusion of terms.
Astropig
December 12th, 2012
7:59 am
Please help me here. I’m lost.
It seems that the people that are trashing this approach are the same public school advocates that blame every bad thing that happens in public schools on the very people that these charters are trying to change the behavior of: Parents.
Traditional public school defenders (charter haters) never get more than a couple of sentences into a critique of the school system or their students without bashing the parents for lack of involvement or general apathy and here we have an approach to that problem that addresses that. And they don’t like this solution because…They can’t use it. It seems that this approach introduces another stakeholder into the process of education that has some skin in the game and thus will be more likely to protect their investment of time and energy. Hard to see how this won’t help make the whole process better.
It seems to this writer that the subtext of the criticism is that this is being done by private companies which are outside the education establishment grip.That’s the real reason that public school teachers and administrators don’t like it.And parents that don’t like this stricture are of course free to stick their kids back in the traditional public school in their zip code. That’s the way the system is supposed to work.Looks like it is working from where I sit.
Elaine
December 12th, 2012
8:01 am
I teach in Cobb. We were always told (and in such a way that I assumed it was district policy) that we cannot give official grades for “parental compliance” things like parent signatures. This was because students shouldn’t be penalized for things out of their direct control, particularly when so many kids don’t see their parents often due to multiple jobs or other commitments.
Old Guy
December 12th, 2012
8:11 am
I teach in a very progressive middle school in Hall County. We have moved for 3 years closer to standards based classrooms. This is the best academic school I have ever been associated with. But the biggest problem we face is grading. Grades and the way they are administered are totally outdated and have virtually no place in a modern classroom. If a student turns in poorly done or incomplete work I return it with instructions on how to make it correct. It’s about the learning not getting it right the first try. If a student is lax on doing daily work and homework but makes A’s on the assessmnets should I give him or her a lower grade? I am amazed at what some people still grade. But remember, we give grades the way we always have because parents want to see a grade and colleges and universities still use grades to rank and admit students.
No Dog in the Fight
December 12th, 2012
8:16 am
Wow….this is like a sci-fi movie. The failure of the home, the public school, and the lack of any morals in society is bearing some D*A*M*N bitter fruit. I know it sounds simplistic, but really people. With no home training, the village is trying to raise the child……..and failing miserably.
AP History Teacher
December 12th, 2012
8:20 am
So I cannot take points off a kid’s grade if he is distracting another presentation? Doesnt seem logical. They are hindering the student from presenting. They should be penalized. To be a great presenter, you have to be a better listener.
Theres a way around:
No Parent Signatures on Academic Contracts, Cant accept missing work…
Academic Contracts return pretty fast
@Astropig: No Charter Hating here. Don’t really care since I don’t have any kids and that’s their decision. Just tell some of your charter friends to stop bashing public school teachers who are doing good. Please go visit some of the schools in metro to see absentee parenting. Hence, this is why many teacher I teach with dont have, nor ever want kids.
Fred ™
December 12th, 2012
8:25 am
It is sad how many ADULTS here, even at least one TEACHER lack the reading comprehension skills to understand what Sally was saying.
dc says “you chose to enroll your child in this school. And now you are complaining about their requirements.”
No dc, she is COMMENTING on the fact that the letter grade has nothing to do with the child’s understanding ie MASTERY of the subject, yet will drop because of the Parents action. The child can miss every answer on a test and it doesn’t matter. Seems strange to me as well, but then I’m actually reading the words the woman wrote without a preconceived political agenda.
I think she has a legitimate CONCERN (note I said concern, not complaint). You folks with your political agenda’s need to learn to read. You need to read WITHOUT a preconceived notion of what the author is trying to say. And lastly, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.
I’m happy with my daughter’s schools for the most part.
Another view
December 12th, 2012
8:32 am
Peter, the law is still the same in Illinois, at least where my wife teaches High School.
Maureen Downey
December 12th, 2012
8:40 am
#To all, We had a discussion on this blog a while back on schools giving a slight grade boost for kids who participated in fundraisers. I do think that this issue goes back to the fundamental question of what a grade means or should mean. My system has adopted IB grading, which, while far more complicated than seeing an A or B on the report card, seems to avoid these pitfalls.
Maureen
jarvis
December 12th, 2012
8:56 am
Fred, a concern = worry. A complaint is the vocalization or presentation of said concern.
Pick up a dictionary before your “complain” about others’ reading comprehension.
To the point at hand, a child’s grade should not be tied to anything his/her parents do or don’t do. At the same time, if you don’t like what your charter school is doing, you can always leave it.
FlaTony
December 12th, 2012
9:12 am
First, the citizens of the state of Georgia recently voted their approval to treat children as commodities to be traded in exchange for good grades and test scores. The supporters of the Amendment One vote were strongly backed by the for-profit education industry. It’s a shame that our state has chosen this path.
Second, if parents did the things the writer references there would be no need to even have this discussion. A portion of teachers’ grades has always been and will always be based on compliance. There is no way to root out the issue of compliance from their grades and I wonder if we should even fret over it. After all, one of the important lessons kids have to learn in life is about personal responsibility. On-time work, following instructions properly, working together with others when required, completing homework, and, yes, returning signed papers can be counted as compliance items.
Third, there are many examples in life of consequences for failure to comply with rules, regulations and procedures. Kids should begin to learn from a young age that this is an aspect of life that is very real. Making sure that kids learn to be responsible should be one of the number one goals of parents. With that in mind, I question why a parent would want to excuse their child’s non-compliance with required items.
Please, let’s acknowledge that children need to learn to handle responsibilities and teachers should be allowed to use grades as one means to communicate with students and families on that quality of personal responsibility.
Carlos
December 12th, 2012
9:16 am
If as a parent, you don’t like the GA Cyber program, then don’t sign up your child for it
The school administrators are in a position to compare achievement at schools where parents are forced into high involvement and those where they have waived their rules. I’d like to see those comparisons, then analyze the socio-economic status of the students in the subject schools.
It’s certainly possible that the GA Cyber practice increases student performance, in particular, among those students having lower socio-economic status whose parent’s behavior has been changed by the practice. It’s also possible that it hasn’t.
Truth in Moderation
December 12th, 2012
9:26 am
“If a student turns in poorly done or incomplete work I return it with instructions on how to make it correct. It’s about the learning not getting it right the first try.”
You are absolutely correct. This is a huge advantage of home schooling. Home educators can quickly tell if their child is “getting it,” and can give timely feedback on any confusion the student may have. The parent can always emphasize the LEARNING and not the grade. Also, in the home setting there are numerous opportunities to practically apply what the student is learning, from writing thank you notes for gifts, to learning how to follow a recipe and use fraction measurements. An older sibling can read aloud to a younger one.
dc
December 12th, 2012
9:34 am
you tell em, Fred. Clearly she wasn’t complaining….huh? I’m sure the comment that goes “Not mastery of learning, but government contract compliance and the New York Stock Exchange!” isn’t a complaint at all. Whatever.
Reality_Check
December 12th, 2012
9:37 am
I heard many general statements during the election season that charters are exempt from some rules that apply to public schools. I never saw any details. Does anyone have a link or information concerning these details?
Michele
December 12th, 2012
9:40 am
Grades based upon parent compliance are unethical regardless of the motivation. Should a student be accepted at a university based upon grades raised by a responsible mommy? NO!
Grades = Commerce
December 12th, 2012
9:53 am
Exactly right.
And this has nothing to do with the difference between traditional public schools and charter schools – the exact same thing happens in the traditional public schools, with a child’s math grade (not even his conduct or “compliance” or “responsibility” grade) affected by whether the parent complies by timely returning forms.
I’m not against assessing kids for attributes such as responsibility, and if public school teachers are too overworked to do more more helpful, more detailed critique, then perhaps a simple letter grade each quarter will have to do. But the grade should be labeled as such:
Mastery of Math Concepts: 100%
Math Homework Compliance: 60%
Conduct in Math Class: F
Doing otherwise dilutes the value of all of the grades, and blurs what needs to be done to improve the child’s performance. To give the same child a C in math dramatically overstates his need to learn math and dramatically understates his need to learn to behave better.
Grading him based on his parents’ performance is even more nonsensical and wrong. But yes, it does happen, and it’s not just a charter school thing. Not at all.
In fact, I can go you one better: As Maureen says, the APS schools participating in Boosterthon openly allow teachers to excuse kids from homework in exchange for their parents donating money to the fundraiser. If professors openly raised students’ grades at a public or private university in exchange for financial donations to the university, can you imagine the outcry? It’s a crime for a teacher to accept cash in exchange for helping children get better scores on the CRCT, but it’s perfectly fine for the school to accept cash in exchange for giving a student an automatic “pass” on homework? Is the homework important for mastery of material, or not? If yes, how can you justify excusing a child from doing it (or excuse giving him an automatic 100% on it) because his parents donate money to a school? If no, how can you justify giving the homework in the first place (and how can you avoid the accusation that it’s extortion to allow only families to donate money to get out of doing unnecessary busy work)?
AlreadySheared
December 12th, 2012
9:55 am
“Is it ethical to use student grades to obtain parental compliance?”
No.
However, “Graded homework is an example” – no, it’s not. Homework IS academic.
BehindEnemyLines
December 12th, 2012
10:18 am
Bonus points for showing up at PTA meetings and non-athletic extracurricular activities (that you weren’t part of) were around 30+ years ago in my very public school. This isn’t exactly new ground.
no name used
December 12th, 2012
10:24 am
It may not be allowed in Cobb County, but Bartow county sure allows parental non compliance to affect a kids grade. My nephew was given the paperwork to turn back into the school-somehow it never made it. As a result, in his English class, he has 3 zeros-1 for each of the unreturned papers. These had to do with the parents reading the handbook, a contact list (which they had from the year before), and a internet agreement. I’m not saying my nephew should not have turned the stuff in (he should and was blessed out horribly for it by the 3 adults most prevalent in his life), but these are clearly not academics. They do affect the grades. It takes 6 100’s to make up for 3 zeros.
jarvis
December 12th, 2012
10:41 am
@FLATony, the writer was talking about parent compliance. There is no responsibility in tying a person’s level of achievment to the conformity of their parent.
3schoolkids
December 12th, 2012
10:52 am
I find this sentence especially troubling:
Last year, along with my children’s report cards, I received the following explanation: “The letter grades shown are not intended to be an indication of your student’s knowledge level or mastery in any given subject area.”
The K12 curriculum is based on a “mastery” model. You can only move on to the next lesson when you have scored an 80 or above on assessments. You can only move on to the next grade level when you have successfully passed all assessments for each unit and grade level in each subject. I’m wondering why any parent would bother with a school that has a disclaimer with it’s report cards.
The statement is necessary as K12 is a for-profit, publicly traded company in which they may be held legally responsible for “misinformation” provided in their annual report. Lose money on K12 stock because Georgia K12 students can’t pass the EOCT’s or aren’t graduating? Not our fault, we provided a disclaimer with our report cards.
To all the posters who don’t already understand this, Georgia Cyber Academy is NOT homeschooling. It is a state paid, at home PUBLIC online charter school that utilizes (pays for) the K12 curriculum. Anyone thinking about enrolling needs to check out the K12 curriculum and decide if it is what they want for their child/children as there is no deviation from their curriculum. If you are not comfortable with parent response influencing grades, don’t enroll.
Also, like many district authorized and state authorized charter schools, the health of their charter is directly impacted by parental feedback (to the point of requiring certain percentages of parents approving of or liking their experience at the school based on surveys). This is why these schools are tying student grades to parental participation. They also use this parental participation to explain away student failures. Georgia Cyber Academy defended itself fiercely against complaints from the state regarding their abysmal track record with special needs students, by pointing out they didn’t have many complaints from parents (parents who may not have realized they needed to outline ANY deficiencies or complaints in each and every survey).
If your child’s grade depended on feedback on a parent survey would that influence the tone of your response?
Batgirl
December 12th, 2012
11:02 am
It looks to me like Ms. Harrell wants to home school, sort of, but doesn’t want to pay for the curriculum materials herself, so she gets them for free from the cyber academy, including, I believe, a free computer for each child. Now she does not want to follow the academy’s rules.
Frankly, if the things she says about the school are true, I don’t know why anyone in their right mind would not run screaming from it. It seems that she has some hard choices to make and doesn’t like any of her options. Oh, well!
bootney farnsworth
December 12th, 2012
11:45 am
so much here, not sure where to begin….
-it seems Sally has rediscovered the wheel. participation/parental perks are nearly as old as education itself. back in the dark ages when I was in school, you got bonus points for buying x many tickets to the donkey ball game, section leader in band if your parents were useful, subtle/not so subtle pressure to forgive miscues if the family was involved in school politics…
-the other side being if you/your family were considered opposition, you can’t breath out of rhythm.
I was (probably no surprise to many) considered a gadfly, constantly challenging rules and procedures. When trying to bully my parents didn’t work, I found myself setting records for detention.
-as was mentioned above, extra credit was given to students of parents who attended PTA, organized fund raisers, ect.
-its in your best interest to know what comprises your kids grades. no kidding.
-while wrong, its a pity that parents must be bribed with grade points to show interest in their kid’s education.
-so does she like grades or not. seems to be on both sides of the issue.
-if she was horrified to not have the test to review, did she ask to see it? I had no problem contacting teachers when my kids grades didn’t make sense
Democrat Man
December 12th, 2012
11:50 am
How else is the Cyber Academy suppose to gain compliance? It sounds reasonable to me. If you don’t like it…you can always go to the local public school.
Maude
December 12th, 2012
12:11 pm
If parents were doing their jobs this would not be in place. The fact schools have been forced to include the parent’s duty with grades shows the world that people in the United States do not value eduction.
Math Teacher
December 12th, 2012
12:17 pm
@Pride And Joy – you wrote – “The teachers need to be flexible with the times because most parents work.”
What exactly are you suggesting? We work too; and our hours are 7:00am – 3:00pm. We don’t get paid any overtime for being at school after those hours. If a parent works until 5:30pm, am I expected to wait until he or she can come? Or, even better – am I expected to sit there and wait for them NOT to show up? I think that the parent should make arrangements to meet the teachers’ availability, and not the other way around. Would you tell your doctor that you work, so, he or she would have to accomodate your schedule?
Chris
December 12th, 2012
12:19 pm
Behavior also can be taken into account in grading, whether consciously or sub-consciously by the teacher. If you have a student who has been disruptive all year and they’ve passed all assessments and are on the borderline of a grade, what do you think the teacher is going to go with. My wife teaches in Gwinnett and they’ve basically been told to not give a kid a 69. Find a way to make it a 68 or pass them with a 70.
As far as this article goes, the biggest parental compliance that needs to happen is parents supporting teachers who are trying to cater to the needs of an entire classroom. So many teachers call or email home and either get no response or given the standard response, “Yeah, un-huh,” from parents and nothing changes. There are a lot of selfish kids in the classroom who look for attention, taking away from the ability of others to learn.
Inman Parker
December 12th, 2012
12:25 pm
There has been a tendency lately for government on all levels to regulate private behavior through a reward/punishment system. Witness the high taxes on tobacco. We shouldn’t be surprised then when schools attempt to regulate (or persuade) parental behavior by such measures as you describe. What works for tobacco will work in the same way to get you to read that handbook! Don’t worry about Big Brother approaching. He has already been invited inside and is seated next to you.
Bootney...
December 12th, 2012
12:42 pm
” if you/your family were considered opposition, you can’t breath out of rhythm.”
Kim Jong Un would be so proud of you!
burntgrassroot
December 12th, 2012
1:19 pm
Once I saw a sign at a restaurant that said, “If you enjoy our food and service, tell a friend. If not, tell us.” Concerns/complaints can be constructive criticism for the improvement of any organization, and should be first directed to that organization. And, there’s a bourgeois penchant for deprecating things that have value, to make one and one’s choices appear more valuable. I could be wrong, but I inferred from Mrs. Harrell’s essay that she preferred the Georgia Cyber Academy for her children, and by lamenting the consequences of that choice subtly deprecates others’ inability to home school by that means. It seems that any educational system and process has areas that could change for the better. The challenge is identifying, acknowledging and working to improve those areas for the benefit of all stakeholders, primarily the students.
CCM
December 12th, 2012
2:07 pm
My child was being given a “0″ for homework when I failed to sign the agenda. The school started sending home a paper to be signed nightly for a week before each test. I am not signing each night that my child studied (I will as soon as the teacher sends me a paper that they sign daily about each topic covered in class). AND child better not get a zero in homework. It is rediculous and wrong to hold my child accountable to my actions.
CCM
December 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
@ Elaine….Cobb is where the PUBLIC school I am talking about is located.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
2:18 pm
letter grades shown are not intended to be an indication of your student’s knowledge level or mastery in any given subject area ha!
and in other news, in structural engineering, “flexibility” = “weakness” and here’s proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YQ0_CG9kp0#t=32m28s
Math Teacher
December 12th, 2012
2:22 pm
@CCM – what you’re asking for is ridiculous (not “rediculous”) and unfeasible. I don’t know how many children you have, but, I’m sure the teacher has WAY more students that he/she is responsible for. So, to expect the teacher to send you, and every other parent a written statement as to what your child learned on a daily basis is just plain stupid. You should be grateful that your child’s teacher cares enough about the students to request that the parents do their part at home. I agree that the students shouldn’t be held accountable for (not “to”) their parents’ actions, but, where is your accountability as a parent?
bootney farnsworth
December 12th, 2012
2:50 pm
somebody needs to work on their reading comprehension.
Pat Farley
December 12th, 2012
2:52 pm
“So, if I miss a conference, my child’s grade is marked down in math, reading, grammar, social studies and science. So what’s in a grade? Not mastery of learning, but government contract compliance and the New York Stock Exchange!”
No you are just a very bad parent.
“In order to protect its state contract, Georgia Cyber Academy must put some effort into compliance. But often, in order for the school to be compliant, the school must ask parents to be compliant. Most important, parents must commit to ensuring that their children take the end-of-the-year state test (CRCT). But then there’s a long list of other tasks, some more necessary than others: conferences, signing off on handbooks, watching on-line orientations, signing disciplinary agreements, teaching students about Body Mass Index (state law), completing career assessments (state law), etc.”
Of course they must be in compliance. The laws were written and interpreted to give the greatest amount of students the best education possible within our system. They should be applauded for requiring parents to at least act like good parents.
bootney farnsworth
December 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
@ burnt
students are the least of anyone’s strategic concerns in education
banshee29
December 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
Debate until the sun goes down. For profit institutions responsible for educating children is a bad,bad, bad idea. Parents catch wind of children getting the grades they need, then more start enrolling. And K12 starts earning more royalties…Bad idea.
Listen, all of you that have nothing but negative things to say about public schools and your teachers that are ruining your children, come visit my classroom. I will show you what a teacher who has had salary reductions for the last 4 years, furlough days, and a worsening apathetic parent base try to destroy my morale does on a daily basis and why my students will be leading this world one day soon. I invite you now, come visit. Perhaps your faith in humanity might be restored when you see what I and some of my colleauges deal with every day, and continue to excell.
HS Teacher
December 12th, 2012
3:24 pm
Finland has great teachers because their pay is equal to that of Finnish lawyers and doctors.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
3:25 pm
When I was a kid my parents never ever ever went to schoolhouse for academic conferences and neither did anyone else. It was not done. Anywhere. People, including parents and teachers, had better things to with their time. Evening time was considered personal time. Home telephones belong to the family. The only reason for a phone call was if somebody needed stitches. Students – Fight for your right to fail!
Parent Teacher
December 12th, 2012
3:26 pm
@CCM
Are you kidding me? Parents should monitor their child’s learning DAILY. This means sit at the table assist, not do, in completing homework, signing daily agendas, asking questions about their day, reading with you child, etc… All this should be completed daily without other distractions like phones, computers, television, games, etc…
This is the problem with education, no one will take responsibility for themselves or their children and expect the teacher to do everything. It takes a village to raise a child, it can’t be done by teachers alone.
CCM
December 12th, 2012
3:27 pm
@ Math Teacher I believe you mis-read what I said. I do not expect a teacher to send a note home…but they should not expect me to sign nightly that my child studied (she by the way has an A in that class).
CCM
December 12th, 2012
3:28 pm
@ Parent Teacher….I never said I should not monitor the studying. But to have to sign nightly that I did MY job? BITE MY BUTT! Not happening.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
banshee29, I’d love to visit your classroom. Sounds great and more power to you and good luck. I probably wouldn’t want to leave. The kids would be askin’ “Whose that new assistant teacher?! Weird! Wow! But you get to deal with the meetings, not me. Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. It’s each person with the ten ton load, meetings and all. Good luck! good luck! Good luck!
CCM
December 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
I will start signing nightly when the teacher signs she did her job….as I said the kid has an A in that particular class and a 3.75 over all…I think they should worry about the student who is FAILING.
xxx
December 12th, 2012
3:39 pm
At most of the better private schools, particiaption is part of being allowed to enroll. No parental involvement, no offer to return. No need to involve grades, simply replace the student. The folks onthe waiting list will jump at the chance.
williebkind
December 12th, 2012
3:42 pm
So if I am a liberal I get an A but if I am libertarian I get a B and if by grace of God I am conservative then I get a C? I want my tax money back.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
3:43 pm
Times have changed. I used to ride my bicycle home drunk from high school, concentrating on not running into parked cars, before I went and worked in a sandwich shop until 2AM on Fridays and Saturdays, where one of the fellow sandwich makers would literally jump over the counter and beat on somebody from the bars-closing crowd if they made trouble, the coin juke box going loud and proud the whole time. I still took a year of pre-calculus when I was 16 and it was the exact same material in the first two quarters of college calculus the following year right after I turned 17, as if it was a review. Nobody ever called the home for anything and I’m glad.
A guy from California told me one time that when his wife was a teen, she got a job travelling with an outlaw band and danced in a cage on the side of the stage during shows.
williebkind
December 12th, 2012
3:44 pm
“At most of the better private schools, particiaption is part of being allowed to enroll.”
I sure would have liked it if my Dad made enough money to allow my Mom to devote as much time to my education as a high school teacher. I’d be educated.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
4:06 pm
One of my friends I did my math homework with in the afternoons, a year older than me, in high school he was already married and had his own apartment in a public housing project. He told an interesting story of when he picked up his bride-to-be against the wishes of her father and how the father stood on the front porch with daggers in his eyes as they drove off. This was a third one of us, the only one who had a stable traditional household. One night I fell asleep in my car driving home from work and I hit a foot high cement curb on the a divider in the middle of a road and it put a crease and a hole in the oil pan of the car. So I went out to my friend’s house and we went to an auto parts store and bought a map-gas torch, disconnected the motor from the mounts, jacked it up and removed the oil pan and welded the hole closed with the map-gas torch and put it back together and were done. This was not because we liked cars. This was done because there was a problem to fix. The other two guys went into business together and are both multi-millionaires, although one of them is gone now due to some weird pre-programmed health ailment that showed up and just took him out. The one complaint he had in life was that Sun computing had power over him with their software certifications if he wanted to run their brand server software and basically it was a pain in the neck to deal with them. That would not be the case today, as software has evolved past trademark control schemes. It would be nice if the schools figured that out and stopped using public money to write checks for licensing. He also wrote software for BMW and when he was a kid, before he got married, he said rats (vermin) ran around his grandmother’s wheelchair. He who came from poverty. We had no time for “regulation” and were too busy building stuff. -Nobody bothered us about anything ever. Today they call that “arrogant.”
AlreadySheared
December 12th, 2012
4:08 pm
@HS Teacher:
“Finland has great teachers because their pay is equal to that of Finnish lawyers and doctors.”
You, sir or madam, are confusing cause and effect. My understanding is that Finland recruits the creme de la creme for teaching and thus must pay more.
If we started paying teachers like “lawyers and doctors” tomorrow, it would take a loooong time for the best and brightest (currently doing other stuff that pays more) to supplant our current cohort of educators.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
4:34 pm
Finland had public health care long before they mucked about with deciding to improve their education.
“In 1929, a special committee was established to evaluate the status of health care in Finland. Due to the lack of service providers outside cities, it was suggested that municipalities establish local hospitals for their citizens. The decision to establish publicly funded hospitals can be considered the base of the current model of modern health care in Finland.”
“(Finland) began in the 1970s by completely transforming the preparation and selection of future teachers. That was a very important fundamental reform because it enabled them to have a much higher level of professionalism among teachers. Every teacher got a masters degree, and every teacher got the very same high quality level of preparation… So what has happened since is that teaching has become the most highly esteemed profession. Not the highest paid, but the most highly esteemed. Only one out of every 10 people who apply to become teachers will ultimately make it to the classroom. The consequence has been that Finland’s performance on international assessments, called PISA, have consistently outranked every other western country”
________________
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
PS For the Finnish teacher training model to work in the U.S., you would have to restructure the curriculum in the education schools and put intellectuals and core-subject academic as teaching professors in place of the seemingly endless bunch of educrats and their “player” and propaganda based dept. heads and deans. They would stop everything in it’s tracks, as they are accustomed to lots of methd classes and short on content – why, there is hardly any in the Land of Oz smoke and mirrors. If you teach math or chemistry, good luck finding any mathematicians or chemists in U. S. teacher training programs.
Any way, can you figure it out? Which came first in the Finnish system, public health or education reform?
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
4:38 pm
It must also be said that Finnish teachers work as professionals with almost no supervision and with no interference from politicians. With a worldly almost anger, the Finnish principal said, “There is no politician who tells me what to do.”
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
4:40 pm
It also says something about the pay and status of doctors and lawyers in Finland. They’re not some super-caste.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
5:30 pm
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/12/amsterdam_to_ban_smoking_pot_in_school/
That’s the place where they have dedicated roadways for b.i.c.y.c.l.e.s and no one ever gets a big medical bill in the mail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOR6zm_Yziw
Sandy Springs Parent
December 12th, 2012
7:58 pm
I tried the K-12 school for exactly 1 day, 3 years ago. It was evident in one day to me that it was one big hoax. It was free text books and a computer for homeschoolers. Over 250 elementary students per teacher. The parent/coach was really the teacher, allowing huge profits for K-12 in Va. You paid extra for any Language classes or other extra classes. Imagine no Spanish classes in K-8, what a gap in your childs education if you did not pay the extra few hundred dollars. You also had to pay extra for fine arts classes. You also had to pay extra to enroll your children in Gym classes, lessons somewhere.
It is easy to see what would happen when you got all those previous home schoolers whose children did as they pleased. Hung around Mom while she was volunteering for the store front ministry church. Lets not forget Mom just had to graduate from high school in Ga. in high school to home school. With K-12, this allowed all the drop outs and GED reciepients of GA 40% to put their children in K-12, aka Home schooling
Sandy Springs Parent
December 12th, 2012
8:23 pm
@CCM I completely agree with you, I am also not going to monitor and sign an agenda each night. My child does not bring it home and hides it. These teachers and schools have no idea what it is to deal with a child coming off of ADD medicine in the evening. It is called all hell breaks loose. No teacher and administrator I can not give them another dose. Just stop giving them a bunch of make-up work because your class is slowed down by a bunch of dummies. As I told you out right seperate the kids out right by academic ability ( and not Target or Tag with its made up cut off beyond the test number)
Naturally smart kids don’t need much homework.They just don’t. I know from experience, even in college. If I got a good professor, I could listen and take notes and I got it. It is still there 30 years later. If the teacher/professor wasn’t any good, then I had to go and read the book and teach it to my self. I as a parent have taught my kids and drilled my kids on the multiplication tables, cursive writing, I taught them to read, using Dick and Jane. We read on the way to every beach trip. No electronics allowed on vacation, that is the time to read good olde fashioned books.
Private Citizen is correct, our parents did not go over to the school house. We did not bring home stuff for them to sign. We simply did not have all this make work homework. We went to schools with discipline. We did not go to schools where there was layer upon layer of non educator make work jobs. Let the teachers teach. I had Howie Griener who was pasionate about US History and the coming megalopolis of BoWash. He was entertaining. I remember what he taught 36 years ago. My daughter can’t remember what she was taught for the test last year.
Private Citizen
December 12th, 2012
10:11 pm
My daughter can’t remember what she was taught… last year.
Wow. That stings. I remember the time my 10th English teacher did a guided meditation on us and practically hypnotised us. It was great. Completely relaxing. A good and memorable thing. Same person directed a play production of the Hunchback of Notre Dame. It was pretty much live and let live and nobody was in our business. Never saw an administrator in the classroom once. It just didn’t happened.
OTOH
December 12th, 2012
10:14 pm
Parental compliance has been a part of students’ grades in GCPS for years just as it is at GCA. In Gwinnett,returning signed forms is homework. No signed form equals a zero for that assignment. The charter school or for-profit status has nothing to do with it.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
December 13th, 2012
6:36 am
@Sandy Springs “These teachers and schools have no idea what it is to deal with a child coming off of ADD medicine in the evening. ”
Actually, we know quite a bit about it, because we have students whose parents forget to give them the medication on some days, or who have sold it to neighbors and friends and do not have it to give to children. We also have the six students in our classrooms who SHOULD be medicated, but who are not, so they just create “all hell breaking loose” daily while we try to teach.
Private Citizen
December 13th, 2012
9:06 am
Reverse-grading in the movie “Harrison Bergeron” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmEOI5zwFMM#t=1m50s
Math Teacher
December 13th, 2012
11:43 am
@Sandy Springs – Although I don’t have a child with ADD at home, I probably know as much as you do about dealing with that! I deal with “all hell breaking loose” all day, everyday, but, I’m expected to do my job regardless. So, if you are asked to sign a document – please don’t think that it’s a valid excuse that your child has ADD. Would you accept that excuse from a teacher? I think not.
“Oh, I couldn’t teach today because Johnny, Dexter, Troy and David were all coming off of their medication.”
What's Best for Kids???
December 13th, 2012
1:02 pm
I’m still digesting the fact that the grades are no indication of mastery.
If I were to translate this, I would say that the school just wants to keep everyone happy, happy,
happy, and As do that for parents and students.
Who cares if Johnny can’t read? He has an A!
Ridiculous.
I see it in public school; Johnny is too busy, too tired, too ADD to do the work, but at the end of the semester, he absolutely must have an A because he won’t get into university. So he gets the A and viola, five years later, he’s living in his parents basement, as he failed out of university.
We are absolutely handicapping our children by giving them grades that they don’t earn.
HS Teacher
December 13th, 2012
1:58 pm
@Private Citizen, Thank you for that movie clip (Harrison Bergeron), hilarious but scary seeing the parallels to our society today. Reminds me of Idiocracy.
HS Teacher
December 13th, 2012
2:02 pm
Also, thanks for the info. about Finland. I wasn’t aware of many things you mentioned.
Former GCA teacher
December 13th, 2012
9:55 pm
When you sign up for Georgia Cyber Academy, one of the agreements in participating in the on-line program includes conferencing multiple times through out the year. The idea is a team approach, student, parent and Homeroom teacher, working toward learning goals. The grade is documentation of the participation or lack of participation in the conference portion of that agreement. The school needs a form of communicating conference participation and this grading system is the way GCA have chosen to reflect it.
Content grades are another issue.
Private Citizen
December 14th, 2012
12:32 am
HS Teacher, the first time I saw the movie “Idiocracy” I thought it was so/so. It does kind of bog down in the middle when they are looking for the “time machine.” I saw it later, though, and it seemed completely brilliant. There’s a pretty serious message in the movie. The delivery is so confronting, too real. But it is real, that’s the thing. They’ve done quite a job satirizing aspects of out society and are quite clear about the cause and effect. Also, the casting for the movie is superb. Everybody on the production side put a lot into it. Redux of movie: replacing all water on Earth with monopolised corporate owned Gatorade trade-named “Brawndo” and using the slogan “Brawndo Makes You Stronger.” yah
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
8:21 am
Math teacher, your attitude is common. You expect we working parents to leave work to accomodate you before 3 p.m. — yet many teachers on this blog complain that they work far longer than 3 p.m. They claim they work 10 to 12 hours a day grading papers and planning lessons and so on. So it cannnot be both ways. Either you actually only work fron 7 to 3 and you will not accomodate a working parent or if you really do work those long hours that you frequently claim you do, then staying until 6 or 6:30 shouldn’t make a difference to you.
We working parents cannot just leave work for a teacher’s confernece — we’d be fired. We don’t have cushy government jobs with three months off of work and 7 to 3 working hours.
On top of that, the teacher’s conferences I’ve been to — ALL of them — are worthless. The teachers shows me my childrens’ work, which she could have easily sent home in a folder and mailed with her comments or scanned and emailed home.
There is no “conference” to these “conferences.” The teacher lecture to us as if we were some thirteen year old child who got knocked up and had a kid and didn’t know what to do.
Here we are college-educated, caring parents who show up on time and the teacher cannot be bothered to show up to her own conference on time.
Make your conference REALLY a conference. A conference is a TWO-SIDED conversation, not a lecture from an ignorant person with an education degree who doesn’t know how to make her subjects and verbs agree.
Teacher: “DO YOUR CHILD have consequences at home?”
We parents “Yes, he/she DOES have consequences at home.”
The most important question is HOW did the teacher get an education degree when she cannot speak English correctly?
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
8:23 am
Yes my keyboard is sticky “The teachers shows me” should be “show me” and the teacher lecture should be the teacher lectures…
Such a pity that the teacher doesn’t understand it because that is what she is PAID to teach and has an “education” degree to teach.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
8:34 am
If my child’s grade is lowered by what I as a parent do not do , then my child’s teacher salary should be lowered by what she doesn’t do.
If my cihld’s teacher does not respond to my email, lower her salary. If my child’s teacher does not show up to a conference on time, lower her salary.
Fair is fair.
If I ever step foot into a public school again, you will be certain I will be using my cell phone’s recorder feature to ensure I get it all on tape and on record. When Ms. teacher wants to breeze in ten minutes late to a conference time she insists upon, that little recording will be going into her file too.
Pride and Joy
December 14th, 2012
9:15 pm
Let’s look at what REALLY happens.
Good parents don’t need to sign anything or have their child’s grade in jeopardy in order to be motivated to support their child’s education.
For good parents everywhere, including me, having a teacher ask for my signature as evidence that I did something is insulting and annoying and it prevents a good working relationship from forming between me and my childrens’ teachers.
Let’s take the bad parents, the ones who don’t care. They don’t care enough to send their kids to school – do you think they will be motivated to do anything if their child’s grade suffers? That would be no.
So what you have in effect is a policy that punishes the innocent child for what the parent isn’t doing and those cihldren already have low grades. So we are heaping more pain on the kids that are already at risk and in pain.
How smart is that?
Not very, huh?
Now let’s look at something else.
Is it possible to sign one’s name on something that is supposed to indicate “yes, I did X” when actually I didn’t? Why of course. It’s called lying. Bad parents do that all the time.
So again, if teachers require a parent to sign their name as “proof” that X was performed, well, bad parents will lie and good parents will be offended.
You see, looks like this parental-involvement plan isn’t working because no one really thought through it.
What is really needed here is an INCENTIVE instead of a disencentive.
We often hear teachers say that parents only show up when free food is served, well, duh, serve up some free sausage and biscuits and coffee as an incentive. It’s cheap and I am certain the PTA would pony up the money or if there is no PTA use some of that federal Title 1 money to do it.
Do WHAT WORKS.
Don’t do what doesn’t work.
Lowering grades for non-parental involvement will only hurt those who are already behind the eight ball. You’ll hurt the poor kids with lousy parents. Those kids need all the help they can get. They don’t need a school to punish them for something they have no control over. If we are going to punish them for having bad parents, go ahead and lower their grade for being poor and black too. That would be just as fair, right?
The IRONY here is so strong we could cut it with a knife.
Teachers are CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING they are judged on things they have no control over (test scores) and say they shouldn’t be judged on a student’s test scores. Yet, the same crowd of teachers wants to do the same thing to other innocent people, little kids. Teachers want to punish the kids for the actions of adults the kids have no control over.
So sad.
So pathetic.
Private Citizen
December 15th, 2012
8:52 am
having a teacher ask for my signature as evidence that I did something is insulting and annoying and it prevents a good working relationship from forming between me and my childrens’ teachers.
PJ, teachers are under so much review and scrutiny, they are expected by managers to produce proof of what they do. same goes with having kids sign to document they received report card from teacher. you make a good point. it is like everyone is treated as an object of suspicion. it is not trust-based.