Teaching history as a trivia contest and neglecting the stories
Former history teacher J. Marcus Patton is writing a book, “History is Story: Reforming the Way Teach and Learn About Ourselves in the Information Age.”
Here is an essay that he wrote: (You can read more by him at his blog.)
By J. Marcus Patton
This year’s debate over charter schools proved one thing – that Georgians want reform in education. Let’s take advantage of this opportunity.
We certainly need school reform that will prepare students for the challenges of the 21st century. We need cutting-edge technology for students who live in an increasingly technological age. We need research-based, data-driven policy initiatives in improving education. But in the drive to discover new methods to serve our fast-moving era, we should not forget that human nature is relatively constant.
Thousands of years before televisions or computers or smart phones were conceived, human beings gathered around fires to learn from each other. Curious by nature, intelligent, discerning, and innately social creatures, human beings created the perfect means for sharing knowledge. Storytelling was the foundation of our first educational system – the oral tradition – and it still frames the way we learn.
People learn through stories. We may memorize lists of facts and formulas for solving problems, use acronyms, logos, and jingles to jog our memories, but we understand information in the context of a narrative. Stories are how we make sense of the world.
As a history teacher for many years, I had the pleasure of sharing good stories with a generation or so of young learners. But to my great frustration, the data that was gathered on my students’ performance was based not on their ability to make sense of the world through what they had learned in my class. It was on their ability to recognize factoids on a standardized test and guess the answer that some faceless state bureaucrat had deemed to be correct.
Today we are swimming in a sea of information, and knowing how to make sense of it is possibly the most important skill a student can acquire in school. It is far less important that a student know the same things as every other student in the state, and far more important that students learn how to find information, evaluate what they have learned, and be able to articulate a conclusion from their research that is based on reliable evidence.
We have been teaching history students how to win a trivia contest. We need to teach them how to be experts in the use of information. And while information can be used in an infinite variety of ways, the time-tested, universally recognized narrative form provides a natural structure for students to use in demonstrating what they have learned. This is certainly true in the discipline of history. I believe the same principle applies in other fields of study as well.
For too long, we have clung to the idea that there is a set body of knowledge that is essential for a person to acquire in order to be educated. We must recognize that information is a stream, and students in the 21st century will need to know how to ride its waves.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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85 comments Add your comment
Pride and Joy
December 5th, 2012
6:21 am
I wholeheartedly agree with J. Marcu Patton. History is important. It helps us “make sense of the world.” As I say, it helps us understand the world.
History has been reducted to factoids; however, standardized testing is here to stay and until teachers and parents demand ESSAY questions for subjects such as history or essay answers on history tests, we need to memorize factoids for test and teach history stories for life lessons. It is easy to do both.
Let me repeat that — it is EASY to do both.
Stories are fascinating and children to listen to fascinating stories. For example, WHY did Alexander Graham Bell invent the phone?
I NEVER LEARNED that in school. I learned it off of a television when I was an adult. Alexander’s wife was going deaf and he invented the phone so that she could communicate with others.
LOVE IS THE REASON he invented the phone. When you tell the real history story, you’ve just sucked in the audience of attentive listeners.
We also had to memorize all the US State capitols. As a ten year old I created mnemonic devices on my own to memorize them and shared them wtih my classmates who helped make up the rest. I was FUN! Even Beverly Fraud would appreciate this device:
What State capitol has the name of a BASHFUL GIRL?
Cheyenne (shy Ann) Wyoming.
I still remember it a couple decades later.
History can be FASCINATING AND FUN — including learning the factoids.
It simply takes an adult who is intelligent, educated, creative who WANTS to teach it instead of moaning and groaning about standardized tests.
Pride and Joy
December 5th, 2012
6:24 am
and that would be CAPITALS, not CAPITOLS.
AP History Teacher
December 5th, 2012
7:18 am
This guy speaks the truth. Trying to explain Changes and Continuities over time in History is akin to trying to pull teeth out of alligator’s mouth. The problem is that my kids have only been on earth for 15-16 years, only remembering maybe 10-12 of those years, but still cannot see into the future past the three inches from their noses.
I try to teach history as a big soap opera/drama. I have always enjoyed/loved it, but its hard to get the kids to buy into something that they assume to have very little connection to. Also in light of this, STEM items in school are being pushed at an alarming rate. Students can do quadratic equations, balance chemical equations, operate CAD, but the basic ideas of writing and critical thinking are becoming a lost art. Students/Parents have said my homework/classwork comes after chemistry, math, and environmental science. Yes these are my AP Kids.
I can only imagine the blow back if a school decided to “charter” and become a HELA (History, English, Language, Arts) School. We have STEM focused only schools (such as the one in Gwinnet), but at those schools one could assume HELAs are kicked to the curb because thats what they are not there for. Its like taking English 101 at GT. My colleagues said it was a joke.
I have always said we need to rethink the way our schools are structured and remove this 19th Century European Centrist Model of learning that confines kids to a classroom. Kids interested in STEM, go to an STEM School. Kids interested in HELA and the future occupations associated with that, go there starting in their 11-12th grade year. 9-10 is core curriculum style and you take a test similar to an ASVAB to determine your interests. Parents, students, and counselors make the decision from there.
Sorry for the ranting, we had a discussion on this in class the other day and it was too good to pass up.
Cindy Lutenbacher
December 5th, 2012
8:03 am
Amen, Marcus! You speak to one of the most pressing issues of standardized testing–the fact that it primarily tests disparate factoids and not true skill, knowledge, critical thinking, or understanding.
All reputable research points to your conclusions. Thank you for a terrific essay.
Jerry Eads
December 5th, 2012
8:07 am
Another exemplar of my old saw – we’ve been reducing P-12 public education to memorizing factoids and formulas (by requring nothing else but such with low-bid “minimum competency” tests) for nigh on 40 years. And then we blame teachers for not giving us productive citizens. And can’t understand why so many kids – bored to tears by our forcing them to do nothing but memorize factoids and formulas – leave school without graduating.
Worthless destructive testing isn’t the only monster under the bed, to be sure, but it’s a pretty big one. I’ll hope out loud again that the Common Core movement will help change this particular travesty and help kids and teachers once again enjoy learning.
William Casey
December 5th, 2012
9:25 am
@AP History Teacher: I’d love to teach at your HELA school! My favorite compliment I ever received from a student was, “Coach Casey, I really enjoyed your class. You made history seem like a giant adventure story.”
mystery poster
December 5th, 2012
10:20 am
History IS a giant adventure, but is rarely taught that way.
Reading about Thomas Jefferson never got me excited.
I got excited I read about women who chained themselves to the white house fence to gain suffrage, Factory workers who risked everything to form unions to protect their health and safety on the job, people like me but much braver and stronger.
Snarkysnake
December 5th, 2012
10:29 am
Mr. Patton is right. I only wish that he could be around to teach the history of how enabling parents through school choice options improved schools in Georgia despite the mossback opposition that wanted to keep the status quo.( I assume that since he is retired that time is not on our side here).His approach is sound,his logic is credible. When the history of our time is written I would love to have him teach it.
mystery poster
December 5th, 2012
10:34 am
PS: I know that some of you may come on here and tell me what a fascinating character Thomas Jefferson was, and you may be right.
mystery poster
December 5th, 2012
10:37 am
On a semi-related note, Joel Stein’s column in Time magazine this week talked about the Common Core standards in writing and reading. The focus is going to change from fiction to non-fiction, a change which Mr. Stein was not very pleased about.
I tried to link the article, but without subscription information only the first paragraph appears.
Throckmorton P. Gildersleeve
December 5th, 2012
10:53 am
I want to add a hearty AMEN! to AP History Teacher’s comment. History is a panoramic tapestry and should be taught as such. Students can make connections much easier than they can memorize disjointed facts which are quickly forgotten.
Janet
December 5th, 2012
11:07 am
Of course there could be more history STORIES taught in school as opposed to memorizing facts, but doesn’t some of this responsibility fall back to the parents as well? I try to take the opportunity to explain history to my 5 and 7 year olds every chance I get. I took them to see the Titanic exhibit at Atlantic Station and they LOVED it. While registering for pre-k this summer, the local church where my son attends, had a small grave yard next to it. It contained a few headstones dating back to the civil war. I took that opportunity to discuss the civil war, slavery, racism, Abraham Lincoln. They were FASCINATED. I took them to the High Museum to see the Mummy exhibit and combined this and the other outings with trips to the library for some books on the topic. My point is schools get the blame for everything wrong, but the truth is Parents should be equally responsible for teaching the stories of our history. And now that Google exists… there truly is no excuse.
SBinF
December 5th, 2012
11:20 am
Great points made….I’m a history teacher, and my students are sometimes shocked when they quiz me and I don’t know the exact date of some battle, or the day when some historic figure was born or died. I explain to them that all of that stuff can be looked up in a book fairly easily (or online, now). A proper understanding of history requires that you see the arc of history. It’s not about names and dates, but knowing the cause and effect relationship between events in the world’s past.
living in an outdated ed system
December 5th, 2012
11:25 am
I applaud this teacher’s letter. It’s important to note that digital technology affords us an amazing technology to teach history in absolutely amazing ways. What if you could go into history lab, like science lab? This video shows how you can supplement history teaching in innovative ways using technology, and teach “historical empathy” more effectively, and not through memorizing information without context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mirxkzkxuf4
And while we’re at it, lets ensure that our administrators don’t continue to whittle down World History until it’s nearly removed from the K-12 curriculum! US History is only a microcosm in the history of our civilization, and children must be taught that our form of government was built on centuries of best practices.
Another comment
December 5th, 2012
11:26 am
My daughter took dual enrollment at GPC this year. As I was helping her review for her Poli Science Final Monday night, got to what is the Federal Reserve. She answered it correctly. Then I added my own follow up. I asked who is the current chair of the Federal Reserve? She says I don’t know are you kidding me. I said no, it is Ben Bernake.
paulo977
December 5th, 2012
11:47 am
” have been teaching history students how to win a trivia contest. We need to teach them how to be experts in the use of information”
____________________________________________________
AGREE ….Standardized testing and the pressure put on teachers to make sure the kids bubble in correct answers have led to an absence of ENGAGEMENT in learning …… Teachers are complaining that they have no time to really encourage discovery learning through , for example, creative drama , art , creative writing etc.
Unfortunately teachers are taking the fall for a totally ‘Uneducated’ leadership in education at this moment in time!!!
paulo977
December 5th, 2012
11:56 am
Jerry Eads …”Common Core movement will help change this particular travesty and help kids and teachers once again enjoy learning
_______________________________________________
From what I gather, the Common Core being implemented in the Dekalb County school s , has made testing and grading even more rigorous .!!!!
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
12:39 pm
It’s difficult to teach anything when you’re being micromanaged and harassed by administrators. If I may stand on a box for a minute, for historical context I think it is significant to reference a sort of multi-axis of events, politics, literature, art, and philosophy from an era. One might include geographic dimension as well. The cause and effect of events may not be popular from the U. S. political perspective as it seems there is a requirement to teach events from a pro U. S. propaganda perspective. I have seen much internet commentary concerning that the U. S. teaching leaves out that basically the Russians defeated the Germans in the WW2 ground war. The Russians paid a heavy price and brutally basically destroyed the German forces from their side of things and the U. S. was secondary to the ending of the war as far as Germany. This is not taught to U. S. students or public and the events are taught out of context to what occurred.
paulo & all, I am thankful for “Common Core” in that the state is no longer writing their own standards with the bizarre required go-alongs that make teachers do thing. The state has made teachers write “Essential Questions” on their classroom boards (valuable space) along with the “standards.” This is terrible stuff. It is top down harassment. A junior teacher might go along with it, but for an experienced teacher it is highly intrusive, not only providing guidelines but also prescribing ad-hoc focus to the guidelines as if the teacher is some kind of idiot or something. The result of then is that the county or school administration will play-judge the teacher if there are following the prescribed “essential question” so that there is a cascading effect that allows the control people something to do. It is is like some nitwit from the state literally has their hand on your marker and is making you write their sayings on the classroom wipeboard. Doing this daily as a condition of teaching is pedestrian and excessive. Thank goodness the Common Core is taking the place of the former “Georgia Standards” that seemed like a jobs program the very few that made indenture for the many.
Jessica
December 5th, 2012
12:49 pm
I agree. Sometimes it’s necessary to learn dates and facts, but even this ‘boring’ part of learning can be more meaningful if we have already told them the stories. History class should be designed to encourage our kids’ interest in the subject, not destroy their curiosity.
Fiction books, from picture books to novels, can be a great way to introduce kids to times and places in history. My daughter recently finished a series about a little girl living in Colonial times. The books piqued her interest, so she has since sought out a few books nonfiction books at the library about that time period. Now, I think she knows more about Colonial life than I ever learned in school!
Mountain Man
December 5th, 2012
1:34 pm
“Factory workers who risked everything to form unions to protect their health and safety on the job,”
They should also learn about about unions in the car manufacturing industry – where a high school dropout made $80,000 per year to put a screw in a hole. Then if no screws were available, he/she sat around because getting a broom and sweeping up “was not his/her job”. Plus job security that said if they didn’t need him/her to work anymore, they had to pay them 95% of their wages to sit in a room and watch TV. Then came in the Japanese who could make a much better quality car in Japan, then ship it over to America, and STILL sell it cheaper than an American car made down the road.
Maybe then students would understand part of the reason we don’t do manufacturing in the US anymore.
Mountain Man
December 5th, 2012
1:35 pm
Or is that Economics, not History?
Dr. Proud Black Man
December 5th, 2012
1:55 pm
Both hillbilly, both.
Newt is nuts
December 5th, 2012
2:27 pm
Maureen, another fascinating blog to read. I’m not sure you, or your readers, have the solution but let me add my thoughts that might put a damper on the conversation.
I served as a business representative on a state commission formed in the 1980s to consider instituting a merit pay system. I learned then that the majority of social studies positions in Georgia rural systems were given to coaches because that was something they could handle with little preparation and oversight.
And when it came time to appoint principals, success in the athletic arena was the single most important factor.
Perhaps that is not the case in the metro Atlanta systems, although I suspect that the HELA curriculums still take a back seat to not only STEM courses, but also athletic and social programs.
And, by the way, the merit pay proposal never got off the ground, mainly because of opposition by the teacher unions.
Not much has changed in 30 years, eh?
Just A Teacher
December 5th, 2012
2:31 pm
The technique is good and the only way history ever made sense to me. I wonder, however, about the history curriculum when I ask students about the left wing anti war movement of the 1960’s and they tell me they never heard of any such thing. Kent State isn’t mentioned in history books but Tianeman (sp?) Square is. The difference between the two is that the American government ordered the killings at Kent State and the Chinese government ordered the protestors at Tianeman Square to be taken out. These same history books treat slavery and the attempted extermination of native Americans as necessary evils in the development of our country. They praise the achievements of the robber barons such as Carnegie and Rockefeller without mentioning the struggle of American labor to eliminate child labor and indentured servitude. In the future, I’m sure children will be taught how Wall Street saved America by allowing the government to give them hundreds of billions of American tax dollars in interest free loans.
Mountain Man
December 5th, 2012
3:27 pm
“Both hillbilly, both”
I take that as a compliment.
skipper
December 5th, 2012
3:30 pm
Good article……..bad enough they have changed the dynamics of history, made it “politically-correct” etc. as well as nothing more than factoid letter punching. I am speaking from experience as I AM a history major. What is going on is a far-cry from how it should be……..
Newt is nuts
December 5th, 2012
3:37 pm
Just A Teacher’s obvious liberal bias simply cannot go unchallenged. Precisely what “American government” ordered the killing at Kent State? Can I presume you teach at the university level where opinions disguised as “facts” are protected by tenure?
You make good points but, as often the case with progressives, they overstate their argument. Sad.
oldtimer
December 5th, 2012
3:54 pm
I, too regret the demise of history is public classrooms. As a retired history teacher, I fear we will be repeating many mistakes we could have learned from.
indigo
December 5th, 2012
3:58 pm
History is one of the most important subjets students take in high school and college. Unfortunately, many teachers don’t know how to teach it and wind up boring their students to tears. The most important lesson history teaches is UNDERSTANDING how and why things got to be the way they are and instructing us in the matters and events that keep repeating themselves throughout the ages.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
3:59 pm
Mountain Man, I request that you obtain and read a copy of Japan in the Passing Lane: An Insider’s Account of Life in a Japanese Auto Factory by Satoshi Kamata.
3schoolkids
December 5th, 2012
4:03 pm
I agree but don’t think it will get better with Common Core. Judging from comments from family members who teach in 2 states, there are not enough resources in place yet. Up North in true Union States, teachers can’t stay after school for professional development and team workshops so it doesn’t get done. Down here, the problem isn’t necessarily time but districts either not providing enough direction or being too strict in resource use.
I like to use the Magic Treehouse series with my son. We’ll read a book and then expand on the topic and maybe even bring family history into it. Children with autism have difficulty answering the 5 W’s -who, what, when, where and why. What we focus on instead of written assessment is being able to describe the 5 W’s with words accurately. It is amazing the facts a child will remember without being pressured and asked to provide the information in a particular way. We’ll do a summary of what he learns (he talks while I type), then correct his “rough draft” and print it.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
4:04 pm
Newt is Nuts, Kent State isn’t mentioned in history books but Tiananmen Square is.
This is a pretty basic observation. How did you make the jump to lefty / liberal scapegoating?
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
4:12 pm
Ohio State; “The President’s Commission on Campus Unrest avoided probing the question of why the shootings happened.” Sounds like “American government” to me.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
December 5th, 2012
4:17 pm
History? Why has Social Studies triumphed over History AND Geography at the elementary- and middle school-levels? Whatever happened to History as the Story of Man? Whatever happened to Geography as a means of gaining perspective on that story? One of my History professors asserted that one would not understand the history of a nation without understanding its geography. My experiences have supported that assertion.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
4:18 pm
I guess they can’t teach “American Government” because nobody ever owns up to anything. Superintendent Davis has this technique figured out and someone him even lauded him as an example of character for not saying anything about what he did. Some days you really have to wonder what are the limits to the mind of a sheep. The sky is blue? The grass is damp. A philosopher once said most humans eat and create waste and that is about the extent of their activity. They’ve got you so brainwashed in the U. S., many people exhibit Stockholm Syndrome, feeling affection for one who has made power over you. It’s a pretty good trick when they can tell people something nonsensical and then the people will personally defend it. There is a story about two campus cause groups in different parts of the world unknown to each other. They were both using identical signs / placards provided by George Soros.
Truth in Moderation
December 5th, 2012
4:22 pm
History lessons are alive and well amongst the home school community. We start in K-5 and work our way through chronologically, repeating the cycle every 4 years at a deeper level. When my children were 8, 11, and 12, they had already covered Ancient History and read the Iliad and the Odyssey as well as studied Latin and Mythology. We were able to take them on a cruise of the Eastern Mediterranean so they could see the ruins of these ancient civilizations first hand. Buy your kids THE STORY OF THE WORLD, by Susan Wise Bauer, on CD and listen to it in the car. You will learn right along with them.
Mike
December 5th, 2012
4:40 pm
They say that those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it.
Sorry, we’re all going to repeat it whether we learn it or not.
A few people love to engage in the actual thinking process and wish to go deep. Most would rather swim in the shallow end because it’s easier, warmer, and less threatening. That’s just human nature.
I can tell you what people have NOT learned from history: How to recognize when they are being fooled with a catchy phrase. The current flavor is “Fiscal Cliff.” Ben Bernake coins the phrase, everyone freaks out, and they get convinced by the media that there’s some disaster up ahead.
Had he simply called it the deficit reducer (which is what it is) or the debt ladder (as in, climbing out of debt) then people would have a completely different attitude about it.
A catchy phrase trumps reason every time. Y2K, Too Big to Fail, We fight them over there so we don’t have to over here, death panels, fiscal cliff.
Every generation seems to have a majority who constantly attack intellectualism, as if thinking is a bad thing.
Oh well.
SBinF
December 5th, 2012
5:03 pm
“Unfortunately, many teachers don’t know how to teach it and wind up boring their students to tears.”
Good heavens, Indigo. I can only hope you’re dedicating your life in the trenches to help educate youngsters with a comment like that.
Prof
December 5th, 2012
5:24 pm
@ Newt is Nuts. (Agreed). Well, the National Guard shot the Kent State students as they were protesting the Vietnam War. Seems pretty close to government forces to me.
Newt is nuts
December 5th, 2012
5:36 pm
If I understand Truth in Moderation, part of the solution for public schools is to have parents take their kids on cruises to the eastern Mediterranean. Yep, that’t the answer. Home schooling for single moms and cruises in the summer. No problem.
M.E.
December 5th, 2012
5:39 pm
I want his book.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
6:11 pm
Truth in Moderation, You need to keep your kids from jumping the rope and running around on the ancient mosaic tiles. That stuff is really durable. They dig up and clear an area and it looks like it was built in the last century, from the U. S. time perspective. I was in Lyon one time and I noted that according to a small brass plaque on the front of the building, it was built a thousand years ago. Looked like the other buildings next to it, modern windows and doors, but the walls were quite thick. Lyon used to be the capital before Paris. They Lyonnaise know it, too.
Saw an old guy take a fall on the ice there, bump his head. It was kind of a sad thing to see. Place gets cold in winter, close to the Alps, with the huge Rhone River coming out of the mountains and blasting through town.
I keep trying to get my yard to look like that buy it just doesn’t work. I can’t figure out what is missing. Maybe I need to go to the Lowe’s or Home Depot. http://farm1.staticflickr.com/37/108869095_101f7b5f9f_o.jpg
indigo
December 5th, 2012
6:11 pm
SBinF – 5:03
I was commenting on personal experiences in high achool and college.
I don’t have the talents to be a teacher. If I see a car that has been wrecked that does not mean I must devote my life to being a body repair man.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
6:24 pm
Oh, look. The Nederlanders are honoring an American poet and have put their poem on the side of a building. http://farm1.staticflickr.com/23/88164197_8fe8e3bb9d_o.jpg Which came first, art of universal health care? For them, the port of Rotterdam came first and through this they built wealth. Maybe the chronology is: art, port, bicycles, health care, public art. I guarantee a city mayor there could tell you. They’re proud of their wealth. Oh, they do banking, too. That’s right. I forgot. I’ve even got the shirt I bought from a guy whose wife worked at the bank and got some extra promotional goods. http://www.abnamro.com/en/index.html PS Don’t wear this kind of shirt to your government school teaching job. It freaks people out.
Private Citizen
December 5th, 2012
7:10 pm
Mountain Man, Here’s some of those industrious Japanese: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rIguM71LQI
Wow, I can hardly believe this movie is online. Great and entertaining fiction story movie, “Great Teacher Onizuka” (1999). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEVTtDFA77c This is a great movie, a “must see.”
William Casey
December 5th, 2012
8:16 pm
One of the reasons history is either not taught well or is boring is that many of the teachers simply don’t know it well enough. HS history teachers need degrees in history. This was true to a small degree in my time (1975-2006.) Increasingly so now. Another reason is that standardized testing and “curriculum reform” are squeezing the life out of the subject.
Truth in Moderation
December 5th, 2012
8:35 pm
@Private Citizen
You are right about the durable ancient buildings. We spent a few hours wandering the magnificent Hagia Sophia in Istanbul,Turkey. It was hard to believe it had been used as a Church (Orthodox patriarchal basilica), and later a mosque, since the time of Emperor Justinian (532 AD). In Egypt there were no ropes; the kids climbed the bottom two levels of stone on the Great Pyramid. Sadly, an elderly passenger on our ship was touring the ruins around the Sphinx and had a heart attack. He fell and hit his head and later died. We were standing in line to see the ruins when they carried him out, his elderly wife following in shock.
Matt P
December 5th, 2012
8:49 pm
Great essay – thank you for publishing. If you add one more bit, you’ve pretty much rounded out my current criticism of the system. And that is, the teaching of United States history always starts at roughly 1492, gallops toward the Civil War, and then mucks through to about 1950 before the school year is over. Kids go to history class, and that class doesn’t tell them anything about the world around them today.
I love all history – I want kids to learn about Gheghis Khan, Athens vs. Persia, Gettysburg, Bismarck, and everything in between. But since we teach American history, and Georgian history, we need to connect that history to the present. More importantly, we need to teach kids how to do the reverse – how to connect the present to the past. What can we learn about the current issues we face by studying history? That’s the unique perspective of history. And we don’t even try to use it, we’re so wedded to standardized tests that prize knowing things like “Who founded Savannah?” or “What was the name of the early 20th century book that led the creation of the FDA”? I’d really rather have history classes teach things like, what do people DO in Savannah? How’d it get to be that way? & what motivated the populists and progressives of the early 20th century? How did they agitate for change? What obstacles did they face? In what ways are they similar or different to the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movement today?
Hillbilly D
December 5th, 2012
10:01 pm
I’m guessing somebody on here has never set foot inside an automobile manufacturing plant. They obviously have no concept of how they operate.
Private Citizen
December 6th, 2012
1:56 am
James Oglethorpe and Upton Sinclair.
Private Citizen
December 6th, 2012
1:59 am
Whup. I would have failed the test. Answer #2 The Jungle. Might also mention it is the inspiration for Fast Food Nation that details the invention of fast-food restaurants and how it turned into large scale manufactured foods dominating much of the agribusiness and food supply.
Private Citizen
December 6th, 2012
2:05 am
Somebody teaching U. S. history might mention that most of the counties are named after persons who were member of the Masonic order. I figured this out when I bought a big huge old Mason book at a yard sale and it listed county “founders” who were members. Maybe one of you history teachers can explain to me how Benjamin was so independent and cool and stuff and yet he was a Mason. Did he have to memorise and recite the wicki-weechi-watchi and do the sacred lodge routines like Fred Flintstone? The last Mason guy I knew who took that stuff seriously was an iron worker who was all hyped about it and enlightened. He was so enlightened that he ran around cheating on his wife and treated his home like the doormat in front of the door.
Private Citizen
December 6th, 2012
2:08 am
typo correction: Benjamin Franklin, founder of first street lamps and fire department in Philadelphia. When Franklin got old, the politicians were scared of him in the United States, so he went and lived in Paris. He lived with a woman who wore a shawl and had a little dog. When the dog peed on the floor, the woman took off the shawl and wiped it up and then put the shawl back on. Franklin – an earthy fellow.
AnonMom
December 6th, 2012
9:38 am
I majored in history — I so loved it – I loved learning the stories about people living over the course of time… some themes never change — even the corrupt ones I rant about that relate to the current state of our school system (they go back to Antiquity) — I don’t think you can truly appreciate things about today and fear where we are headed unless you truly appreciate where we’ve been. You can’t do that without an understanding of the stories about the past — particularly Man’s unkindness to Mankind over the Centuries and the root causes of it all… there are consistent drivers of success and evil and the world that seem to repeat themselves.
Newt is nuts
December 6th, 2012
11:40 am
I have a question for you, Maureen. Do you have an obligation to tell folks like Truth in Moderation (the Mediterranean cruise lady) that others like Private Citizen are mocking her?
Prof
December 6th, 2012
12:51 pm
@ Newt is nuts. Truth in Moderation has posted here frequently for quite a while, has detailed the glories of her home-schooling program for her super-gifted child many times, and should be quite familiar with being mocked.
Private Citizen
December 6th, 2012
1:49 pm
Newt is Nuts, I am not mocking Truth in Moderation. In the USA you’re supposed to be able to do your own thing. More power to him/her. One might ask what is their family’s concept of production / contribution once the travel is done? Maybe that is what you’re asking, “What’s in it for me?” which is a legitimate question. Some places, it is expected and honored to travel-about to gain perspective prior to career. This is why there are low-cost hostels and such. It is not for vacation, it is for perspective. That way, as a fully developed adult you are somewhat invulnerable to propaganda and are capable to be culturally proficient.
On a different note, you might also read / listen to the Prologue of the novel Moby Dick, by the American author Herman Melville. He describes when he gets impatient with society and is ready to knock someone’s head off, it is time to go to sea. It is an exciting and excellent work. I recommend it to you. Melville had a hard life, the literary establishment ignored him. Meanwhile, his contemporary Hawthorne had the good life, social pleasantry, and state dinners. Not Melville. Check it out. I downloaded the file and listen to it in the car while distance driving, a superbly pleasureful experience. PS It’s not easy to read that stuff so well as is done in the recording. The reader’s performance is done well, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mixWoSidFGc
Here’s the LibriVox source page: http://librivox.org/moby-dick-by-herman-melville/
Truth in Moderation
December 6th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Prof
What’s that black sticky stuff in your hair?
LOL!
Truth in Moderation
December 6th, 2012
9:09 pm
@Private Citizen
I was listening to your recommended recording of Melville’s “Prologue,” when I noticed a fatal flaw; a Leviathan is NOT a whale. Perhaps he failed to read Job 41 in its entirety. I originally posted this with the Bible quote, but God’s Word is now awaiting moderation. I’m sure you can find the KJ verse on your own.
Prof
December 6th, 2012
9:50 pm
From the Oxford Online Dictionary: “Definition of leviathan. noun.
(in biblical use) a sea monster, identified in different passages with the whale and the crocodile (e.g. Job 41, Ps. 74:14), and with the Devil (after Isa. 27:1).
a very large aquatic creature, especially a whale: the great leviathans of the deep.”
Michael J. Burke
December 6th, 2012
10:03 pm
Mr. Patton’s essay on public education knocks it out of the park and leads me to ask, when can we expect to crack into his book?
Maureen Downey
December 6th, 2012
10:07 pm
@Michael, He is working on his book. Will ask when he expects to complete it.
In the meantime, he has a blog.
Maureen
Private Citizen
December 7th, 2012
1:14 am
hey-yah TiM, ever try and visualise being in the belly of a great fish? Did he have a chair and a candle and a table? I am guess this poem may be derivative of the story of Jonah. Or maybe not. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174348
I tried to teach this poem one time, but to be honest, the kids were completely uninterested, anything but captivated. Oh, well. Back to contemporary song lyrics. They’ll “attack” that stuff and circle nouns and verbs..
Private Citizen
December 7th, 2012
1:30 am
Yes, they probably lost it at the word “moil.” Game over.
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
5:21 pm
Good try Poof.
Was the Oxford Online Dictionary around during Melville’s time?
In the “Prologue”, Melville directly referenced Job 41.
Yes, this sounds JUST LIKE A DESCRIPTION OF A WHALE:
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose?
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp ponted things upon the mire.
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
5:29 pm
PC’s comments = blue screen of death.
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
5:38 pm
“belly of a great fish”
A whale is a mammal, not a fish.
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
5:46 pm
“ever try and visualise being in the belly of a great fish?”
Well, actually, CNN caught the great fish dropping Jonah off at the shore…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdm8Ht5uYc
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
6:08 pm
What swallowed Jonah?
Sea World educators identify the prime suspects:
“Thanks to Stephen Spielberg, director of Jaws, this species is
known throughout the world, even in regions remote from the sea. Suspect
number four is the great white shark.
“Elephant seals is one of the favorite meals of the great white shark,”
Parham said. “And some elephant seals are bigger than Shamu.”
Robinson told of seeing a photograph “of a great white shark opening its
mouth, and it had within its gullet a whole blue shark. You could see the
head of a six-foot blue shark, so it could easily swallow a man.”
Parham added that “in the cold water, with the metabolism of a shark, a
man’s body could last three days without deterioration…”
http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/usa/california/san_diego/general_stories/sd9-13-02jonah.html
Truth in Moderation
December 7th, 2012
9:14 pm
“I am guess this poem may be derivative of the story of Jonah.”
Not Jonah, but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Daniel chapter 3.
http://www.swordofthespirit.net/bulwark/october2011p7.htm
Truth in Moderation
December 8th, 2012
2:17 pm
Why don’t public schools teach the history of the public school system?
Perhaps they have something to hide, yes?
“The Dark Intentions of Public Schooling”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFlvkwXCQco
“As a current member of the public school system, I must sadly say that I have seen that which this video describes in full effect. I have seen nothing to suggest even the intent of teaching rational thought; worse yet, my school system is considered among the best in the country. Given what I’ve seen and know, I can only say that I have great fear for the future of this nation and her people.”
Public Schools: The Humanist Conspiracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMMJ18eJBTI
“What the church has been for medieval man, the public school must become for democratic and rational man. God would be replaced by the concept of the public good.” -Horace Mann
“The public schools must become exclusively humanist and we must remove the religious superstitions from the students” – John Dewy, signer and co-author of the Humanist Manifesto, 1933, “The Father of Progressive Education” and honorary NEA President
“Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well – by creating the international child of the future.”
–Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard
Pride and Joy
December 8th, 2012
5:10 pm
This is very true “I’ve taught sentence diagramming and it was, like, out of 12 English teachers in the building, me and one other teacher were the only ones doing it.”
The fact that Eli Whitney invented the cotton engine is of no consequence; yet, we were all taught that he invented it. We might have even been taught how it worked but that is not important either.
What IS important is the role it played in slavery and the civil war.
The cotton gin made cotton more profitable because it decreased the need to manually remove the seeds from the cotton fiber, which made growing cotton more profitable; however, planting and harvesting the cotton required slaves. So the more profitable the cotton was to sell, the more slaves Americans needed to plant and harvest it.
The cotton gin may have very well been the reason America bought slaves in as great of numbers as they did and may have been the reason America allowed slavery well into the later years when most civilized countries made it illegal.
The sad part is, teachers don’t teach the history of the cotton gin, only the factois. I don’t blame standardized testing for it. Those factoids were taught as factoids long before standardized testing. I learned “Eli Whitney” in the third grade; yet never knew of the importance of the gin until I was an adult reading for pleasure.
Pride and Joy
December 8th, 2012
5:14 pm
Whoops. I had a copy and paste error. My pulled quote should have read “A proper understanding of history requires that you see the arc of history. It’s not about names and dates, but knowing the cause and effect relationship between events in the world’s past.”
Prof
December 8th, 2012
9:03 pm
@ Truth in Moderation, December 7th, 5:21 pm.
Words have different meanings at different times; and dictionaries record various meanings of words. “Leviathan” meant one thing to the author of “Job,” which was composed about 5th century BC, and something else to Melville, who wrote in the mid-1800s AD.
Your quotation illustrates that, as the Oxford Dictionary states, in Job 41 it meant either a whale or a crocodile. These creatures were apocalyptic creatures of destruction in ancient Babylonian mythology; and it is likely that the author of “Job” was influenced by this since the Hebrews were part of the Babylonian Empire from 600-400 BC. The “behemoth,” mentioned in Job 40, was another Babylonian creature of the apocalypse, now thought to be the hippopotamus.
By the time that Melville was writing, about 1300 years later, “leviathan” had taken on the primary meaning of whale, as the Oxford Dictionary notes.
One meaning doesn’t rule out the other. What’s your problem?
Truth in Moderation
December 8th, 2012
11:43 pm
Your statement is proof you are a poof and NOT a Prof. The passage in the KJ Bible hasn’t changed since the good King had it translated, Melville read it, and I have posted it. Whales don’t have scales or a nose, nor do they blow smoke out of their nostrils and flames out of their mouth.
When is the last time you saw a hippopotamus with a tale like the Cedars of Lebanon?
Here is a good summary of why your conclusions are wrong:
“Finally, we will very briefly examine the suitability of the proposed animals in the light of the whole passage.
The elephant is outstanding for its trunk, its great size (especially its feet), its enormous appetite and its ears. None of these unique features are mentioned in our passage, but they ought to have been, if Behemoth was the elephant. Also, the elephant retreats to the depths of the forest during the hot part of the day.21 This does not seem to fit with Job 40:21, which suggests that Behemoth spends his time in marshy areas.
The hippopotamus is noted for its weight, its large and strong mouth, with its deadly tusks, its thick skin, its pink sweat and its ability to walk on the bed of a river for long periods. It spends most of the day in the water, as its skin dries out very quickly in the sun.22 Again, none of these unique features are mentioned in our passage! Similarly, the hippopotamus stays in the deeper water, and this does not seem to fit with Job 40:22, where we are told that Behemoth stays under the trees on the bank.
The main features of the dinosaurs are unknown, apart from the size of their bones, which indicates that some of them were much larger than any known land animal alive today. Consequently, because of our ignorance here, there is nothing in the passage to eliminate this possibility!
It is not surprising that before fossils of large extinct animals were found in great numbers, older conservative commentators only tried to identify Behemoth with some of the largest known living animals (even though none of these animals are suitable). The possibility of very large extinct animals did not really occur to them!
The whole passage in Job 40 concerning Behemoth certainly suggests a large animal, and no known living animal fits the passage adequately (for various reasons, including the detailed habitat presented).
The most natural interpretation of the key clause Job 40:17a is that the tail of Behemoth is compared to a cedar for its great size, and there is nothing in the context which contradicts this possibility, even though the exact sense of the verb is extremely difficult to determine.
Consequently, the most reasonable interpretation (which also takes the whole passage into account) is that Behemoth was a large animal, now extinct, which had a large tail. Thus some type of extinct dinosaur should still be considered a perfectly reasonable possibility according to our present state of knowledge.”
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/tj/v15/n2/behemoth
Truth in Moderation
December 8th, 2012
11:47 pm
Also, If a whale’s scales (which he doesn’t have) render him invincible to sharp pointed objects (spears, harpoons), why do we have “save the whale” campaigns?
Truth in Moderation
December 9th, 2012
12:17 am
” “Leviathan” meant one thing to the author of “Job,” which was composed about 5th century BC, and something else to Melville, who wrote in the mid-1800s AD.”
Job defines a Leviathan by describing him in vivid detail. He obviously does not describe a whale. If Melville bothered to read the descriptive passage in the KJ Bible (which I have posted), he would have realized that. Instead, he relied on someone other than Job to tell him what a Leviathan is. That “scholar” based their guess only on animals they knew of in their own lifetime. They were ignorant of animals now extinct.Thus, because of poor scholarship, this error has been perpetrated even to this day by other hapless “Profs.”
Prof
December 9th, 2012
11:27 am
@ Truth in Moderation. You need to remember history too. Again, the Book of Job of the Hebrew Scriptures was composed in ancient Israel circa 500 BC, and the King James Version of the Book of Job was translated in England from Latin in 1604-1611 AD.
Whether Job’s “leviathan” is a whale or a crocodile (which doesn’t have flames going out of its mouth and sparks of fire, either), the point clearly is that God has created all the fearsome creatures of destruction. The Hebrew word, translated into Late Latin as “libhyethen,” had come to mean a fearsome sea monster or a whale by the time that King James had the Hebrew Bible translated from Latin into English (1604-1611). That’s why in the 1650s the famous English philosopher Thomas Hobbes titled his book “The Leviathan,” using the word to mean a huge strong central government. And that’s why Melville used the word to mean “whale” in his novel about the great white whale, Moby Dick.
The books of the Hebrew Bible (called the Old Testament by later Christians, although certainly not by Hebrews at the time!) were written originally in Hebrew, and then translated 1500-1000 years later into Late Latin of the 3-7th century AD, which were the still later basis for the King James translation in 1604-1611. (His translators were translating from Latin into English, NOT from Hebrew into English.)
You might find it worthwhile to study Scriptural History since the subject seems to interest you.
Truth in Moderation
December 9th, 2012
4:53 pm
@Prof
Nice cut and past job, but it is irrelevant. The only information relevant to this discussion are the KJ Bible passages I have already quoted. The passage from Job was specifically quoted in the “Prologues- Etymology and Extracts” written by Melville. Taken in context, the quote ” Leviathan maketh a path to shine after him; One would think the deep to be hoary. –Job” was used as an example of a reference to a whale. This is quoted from the KJ Bible which is still in use today. The FULL description in that passage does not describe a whale. Game over.
Truth in Moderation
December 9th, 2012
6:50 pm
oops!
“cut and paste”
Prof
December 9th, 2012
6:58 pm
I know this stuff, believe it or not. Not everyone cuts and pastes. Your statement is simply wrong. And you REALLY need to learn something about Scriptural scholarship and history….especially if, as you say, you are the only source of education for your son.
Truth in Moderation
December 9th, 2012
9:04 pm
“I know this stuff”
Know what? All one has to do is read the KJ version THE AUTHOR REFERENCED. A kindergartner knows a whale doesn’t have a nose or scales, nor do they blow smoke out of their nostrils and flames out of their mouth. You can’t refute it, so you continue blathering nonsense….just like a PROUD Prof.
Yes, Job hit the nail on the head:
“34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.”
Prof
December 9th, 2012
9:23 pm
The KJ version is not the final authority, but a translation of a translation. Its translators in 1600 AD had one definition of “leviathan” that was not the same as that of the ancient Hebrews who originally composed “Job” in 500 BC.
If you take the Scriptures as seriously as you claim, then you really should take the trouble to learn their history. It sure goes back a lot further than the version created by King James’ committee of English scholars who knew Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Latin.
But now, good-night.
Truth in Moderation
December 9th, 2012
10:30 pm
With all your blathering about UNRELATED claims, you have not documented one of them. You are no theologian. Your assertions are worthless. Again, your points are pointless. I am dealing with the TEXT and the SPECIFIC QUOTE used by the author, Melville. MELVILLE, by using the specific King James quote regarding a “Leviathan,” indicated TO THE READER, that he considered it to be a description of a WHALE. By examining the SAME KING JAMES TEXT, IN ITS ENTIRETY, one must conclude that the author of the Book of Job was NOT describing a whale. THE FACT THAT THE KJV WAS TRANSLATED FROM THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS IS IRRELEVANT. The author chose to use the KJV AND ACCEPTED IT AT FACE VALUE. He used the quote as a literary device to show Ahab’s obsession with the WHALE. Are you really this dense?
DeKalb Teacher of Social Studies
December 19th, 2012
6:07 am
I agree with Mr Patton. I teach far more economics and governmental structures than I do the “cool stuff” that the kids love. This is not my choice; it is the state standards. They don’t even include culture of a society or country as a viable part of learning. This is what the kids would be most interesting in—how people live and how they are alike and different from us. I do teach “trivia” because I am required to or lose my job.