Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much? Should it matter more?
With the exception of top brass, very few reporters and editors in newsrooms have offices. Our desks are so close that if I stretch too far, I could knock my colleague Kyle Wingfield in the head. (Not that he couldn’t use a friendly thump to the head now and then. You can read his political blog here.)
So both praise and proscription are often overheard by all in newsrooms. I find it more painful to be a bystander to a pillorying than to be a victim.
One of the worst lashings I ever overheard was directed at a reporter who confused “it’s” and “its” in the lead of an important story, a mistake that also slipped by the copy desk. The editor lamented that the piece could have been a contest entry but for that mistake.
His critique must have stayed with me because I can’t get past the misuse of the words to this day.
And that includes a presentation of new standards in my own school system a while back. The audience was handed examples of excellent student work. And the writing and reasoning were impressive. However, what I remember most was that the 8th grade paper featured an opening sentence that contained both “it’s” and “its,” neither used correctly.
Should it matter?
I remain surprised how often student work chosen for display suffers spelling or grammatical errors. At a school open house, I watched a student PowerPoint on international poverty where I stopped counting after the seventh misspelled word.
Here’s my question to teachers and schools: If you are choosing student work to showcase, is it appropriate to ask students to correct any errors?
The teacher showing us the PowerPoint told us how impressed he was with the perceptions and insights of the sixth graders who created it. I was surprised that he didn’t reference the spelling mistakes, perhaps to explain that he was more concerned with the students’ insights. I couldn’t celebrate their original thinking because I was too busy wishing they knew how to spell “separate” and “Eritrea.”
I understand that the top goal is to prod students to write, but exquisite writing can be undermined by spelling errors.
Should only perfect papers/PowerPoints be shared or should parents see the students’ original work without prettification?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much? Should it matter more? - Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Morgen Bailey Daily | Scoop.it
December 3rd, 2012
4:31 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much? Should it matter more?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)testing (Medium) With the exception of top brass, very few reporters and editors in newsrooms have offices. [...]
Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
5:38 am
If you read some of the emails sent by my colleagues, you would understand that many teachers are awful writers. Misspelled words, subject verb disagreements, and basic grammatical errors litter their writing. My guess is that many of these teachers don’t notice the errors themselves.
guest
December 3rd, 2012
6:00 am
What a stupid topic. Why don’t we just get rid of education. Who needs it. Let’s continue to be a stupid nation while the rest of the world continues to pass us by.
guest
December 3rd, 2012
6:02 am
Seriously, Maureen, I’m waiting for “Counting to 10: Does it matter much? Should it matter more?”
mountain man
December 3rd, 2012
6:16 am
“Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much?”
Only if they want to get a job. If I see a resume with an error in it – it goes in the trash!
mountain man
December 3rd, 2012
6:18 am
Do we really need cashiers who can count? After all they have registers. We don’t need any math beyond how to operate the calculator on your I-phone (all kids have these, even the poor kids).
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
December 3rd, 2012
6:29 am
Maureen, I think a big part of the problem with writing and spelling is that so many kids now read whole words or by syllables instead of phonetically. The spelling combos that would be memorized via use over time as shorthand for the sounds they represent never get internalized. Kids rely on spellcheck and do not recognize they have a homonym problem. Spellcheck will not help with the wrong word.
Little recreational quality reading means there is no internal voice using words to create a vivid mental picture. This generation is too addicted to the visual to make it through those adjectives in print or unknown words full of meaning.
Then the software writing programs create crutches. The prompts get something flowing on the page but without the story residing within the writer’s own head.
A big part of what is going on in education now globally has to do with a rejection of the rational, abstract mind. Nothing bolsters the ability to reason abstractly like the ability to read phonetically and fluently and then describe the available mental scenarios in print.
The spelling and poor writing are a symptom of what is a very real effort to create New Kinds of Minds. Minds that Feel rather than Know. You are just noticing the symptoms of the Change in Emphasis while we are still Transitioning.
At Great Personal and National Loss to the Future that will be Available.
ALteach
December 3rd, 2012
6:31 am
Good insight is what a teacher wants on an in-class essay or rough draft. What many teachers are failing to do is to take the time to read drafts, comment on the drafts and then have the students revise at least twice to seriously limit mistakes if not catch them all. If we teach our students to be thorough in writing, I’ll bet they will be more thorough when testing too….
One perspective
December 3rd, 2012
6:36 am
It depends. Was the work produced during a timed writing situation (like a test)? In this case, the student might not have had the time to edit and polish the work. Is it a final draft of a paper or presentation they’ve been working on for some time? Then there should be fewer errors. Should the teacher be the one to line edit every child’s project or paper to perfection? No–because then it’s not the child’s work but the teachers. Many professional writers have the benefit of copy editors, and even they make mistakes (or let mistakes go by) as witnessed in your opening anecdote. And many professional people have become quite successful without ever learning to spell particularly well. Some of my friends in the medical profession write emails that would make a sixth grader cringe. I value well supported ideas, logical reasoning and creativity over perfect spelling in a piece of student writing–the latter anyone (even a computer) can fix, the former is much harder to accomplish.
Martina
December 3rd, 2012
6:37 am
32 years of teaching and counting, and YES, it matters! I count off points if my 4th graders don’t put capital letters and punctuation on sentences – and you wouldn’t believe the number of them (many in the higher reading level bracket) who don’t! As for the its/it’s confusion, it’s actually very simple. I tell my students to insert the words “it is” in the sentence. If it makes sense, use the contraction “it’s”. If the word is followed by a noun, the correct spelling is “its” – a possessive pronoun. Same thing for they’re/their!
Cindy Lutenbacher
December 3rd, 2012
6:40 am
To Teacher: you may be right. On the other hand, e-mails are typically composed in haste and sent just as quickly. And we ALL make mistakes.
Public presentations of student work demand editing–by the students (with teacher help). Teachers can speak privately with parents about their kids and their challenges.
I utterly SLAM students in my first-year (college) comp classes for grammar errors because I want them to be/appear as professional as possible. But the system I’ve created allows them to earn half of the points back OR to avoid errors in the first place by working with me on drafts. However, I only have between 50 and 75 comp students. High school teachers have 150 or more.
One perspective
December 3rd, 2012
6:40 am
Oops–should be “teacher’s” in line six. Slipped by my early morning copy editor.
redweather
December 3rd, 2012
6:46 am
My college freshman comp students make all kinds of errors that end up in the writing they submit for a grade. I now find it necessary to include this sentence in almost every essay critique: Your grade on this essay would be considerably higher had you taken the time to proofread for grammar, spelling, and punctuation.
catlady
December 3rd, 2012
6:51 am
I deal with this with my 2-4th graders. I want to see their work polished before going up; first, however, is the push to get them to write down their ideas! It is almost as if they are scared to write. They talk a mile a minute, and can synthesize verbally, but putting it down is just too much effort. I tell them to spell like it sounds for the getting-it-on-paper part. (I show them an example of my then-5 year old’s story “The Blak Wido Spidr”)
Handwriting is not taught in my system any more, and so we have 10 year olds whose printing is illegible. Forget about cursive writing!
The kids, by and large, are good at finding errors in our daily language review, but cannot see their own lack of capitals, periods, and misspellings.
Jack ®
December 3rd, 2012
7:00 am
It’s obvious that reading, writing and arithmetic were not taught to most bloggers. And forget about sentence structure; it’s a long lost art.
Ivan Cohen
December 3rd, 2012
7:05 am
Writing is bound to be a thing of the past, thanks in part to texting and tweeting.
Mountain Man
December 3rd, 2012
7:11 am
“I tell my students to insert the words “it is” in the sentence. If it makes sense, use the contraction “it’s”. If the word is followed by a noun, the correct spelling is “its” – a possessive pronoun. Same thing for they’re/their!”
Same thing my teachers taught me in the sixties.
Too bad you can’t teach that to some of the bloggers on the AJC.
Mom of 3
December 3rd, 2012
7:14 am
It is very important. We recently switched our kids from public to private school. There is a vast difference in the amount and quality of their writing. I believe the constant focus on standardized tests and the increased class sizes don’t help the situation. Public school teachers don’t have the time to teach students how to correctly edit their work. Our experience was that if it wasn’t on the CRCT then it probably wasn’t going to be taught. (And I think there is a big difference between finding the grammar error in a sentence on a standardized test and actually going through the writing/revising/editing process.
Mountain Man
December 3rd, 2012
7:15 am
“Writing is bound to be a thing of the past, thanks in part to texting and tweeting.”
No, writing will be around forever. It is a problem to read something that is written and have to crack it like a code – what does LOL mean. Blak? Oh, they mean black. If I received something like that from an employee, I would question whether they need to be working for us or not. Even worse, if they send something out like that to a customer! Our words represent ourselves, and if we use bad spelling or grammar, it shows we are either ignorant or lazy.
Grizz
December 3rd, 2012
7:16 am
Catlady put her finger on it:
“They talk a mile a minute, and can synthesize verbally, but putting it down is just too much effort. I tell them to spell like it sounds for the getting-it-on-paper part. (I show them an example of my then-5 year old’s story “The Blak Wido Spidr”)”
For the elementary grades, that may be ok, but as the grade level goes up, so should the expectation of correct spelling, punctuation and grammar. The best way I know of to assist in that effort is outside reading, fiction or non-fiction yet with all of today’s noisey distractions for children, I fear that just quietly curling up with a good book is becoming a relic of the past. Sad.
ljhays
December 3rd, 2012
7:16 am
Unless there’s a return to rigor in how we teach grammar and writing, we’ll continue to produce students whose skills in both are abysmal. As those students become adults, they will perpetuate these deficiencies in their own children; we can only hope that those adults don’t decide to become educators. While teachers may believe that students’ writing contains impressive “insights and impressions” in spite of grammatical flaws, the writing lacks clarity and precision; readers like Ms. Downey who know better will be distracted from the message because they can’t trust the words and structures being used to deliver it. Reading, writing, and ‘rithmetic used to be the foundation of our educational system; that foundation is crumbling rapidly.
Really?
December 3rd, 2012
7:17 am
I’m a college professor in the sciences. Writing is important and resumes or CVs should be perfect. Really, so should emails… it’s easy enough to do and most email and word programs have grammar and spelling checks (although not so useful for technical writing, but not bad either).
From a professional Associate Press writer two days ago about the tragic death of the KC football player who killed his wife, then himself, the latter in front of his coach…
“Not mentioned was Jovan Belcher, the Chiefs linebacker who killed his girlfriend and then himself a day earlier, across the parking lot from the stadium.”
If Bill Draper of the Associated Press, who wrote this, read this carefully, he would see that it is composed in such a way that it sounds like he killed himself a day before he killed his girlfriend!
The devil is in the detail and students at all levels, as well as non-student or student adults, should write and spell properly. Not dealt with in the article here Maureen is whether a student can compose a piece that makes a logical argument for the point at hand. I teach PhD students and whether they are from South Georgia or South Korea, they cannot write coherently, cannot spell and do not know basic grammar. Many of their mistakes also are seen in newspapers such as the AJC (e.g., beginning a sentence with ‘And’…. really?). Granted, language including the English language evolves and many believe it is fine to begin sentences with ‘And’ or with adverbs and prepositions etc, but the rules are there not to be stuffy, but to decrease confusion by the reader.
Mary Grabar
December 3rd, 2012
7:26 am
Who cares about such petty bourgeois things, when students learn about really important things, like “international poverty”? Next thing you know, you’ll be asking them to learn about the Constitution and to think in a logical, linear manner–all hallmarks of the imperialist Bushitler education policies.
South Georgia Retiree
December 3rd, 2012
7:31 am
Good student work with errors (presented without the author’s name in a public setting) should be a topic for parents to learn about the school’s writing program. Praise and constructive criticism together can improve the writing process and impress upon students and parents the need to proofread one more time before submitting work.
We all make errors if we write enough, but if teachers consistently let papers slip by without correcting errors, they need training to continue in their job of teaching writing. Not everyone cares whether writing is without mistakes, but schools should care and strive to produce student writing that is free of error. Writers who produce excellent work are those who have learned the hard way through a painful process of correction.
Mountain Man
December 3rd, 2012
7:46 am
Case in point – from another blog:
Besides, the standard bearer of the SEC! SEC! (dogs) doesn’t even have to strap em on the beat the B1G, right dogs?
Can someone please rewrite this sentence so that it makes sense?
Bob
December 3rd, 2012
7:48 am
Is this an extension of the debate of whether to teach cursive ?
Maureen Downey
December 3rd, 2012
7:53 am
@Bob, Cursive was discussed on Momania a few weeks ago, but I would be happy to discuss here. We have not done so for a while.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/09/20/cursive-cursed-texting-and-e-mail-trump-handwritten-notes/
Maureen
Maureen Downey
December 3rd, 2012
7:57 am
@Jack, I have to note that this blogging tool does not allow posters to go back and edit so errors are impossible to correct once a post is published.
Maureen
Whirled Peas
December 3rd, 2012
8:18 am
It is Maureen Downey who needs a thump on the head, not Kyle Wingfield.
When one gets to the business world and has to send e-mails and doesn’t know the difference between their, there and they’re, he is likely to have a limited career path. We make judgements about people that we otherwise don’t know well, and spelling is one of the things we judge.
mother of 2
December 3rd, 2012
8:23 am
I think that spelling and grammar are very important, and students should be required to correct any errors before work is presented. I’ve also noticed that writing instruction is very different at private schools where teachers have far fewer student papers to correct. My privately educated child writes very well and pays attention to spelling and grammar far more than my publicly educated child.
Elizabeth
December 3rd, 2012
8:37 am
They matter because written communication is still crucial in this country. Standardization of spelling and conventions is what keeps our language from becoming unreadable. If everyone just writes and spells and uses punctuation any way they want to, soon no one will be able to read or understand what is written. Everyone needs to be able to communicate in writing– not just emails but formally, using standard written English. Everyone needs to be be able to express ideas clearly and in an organized fashion. And it matters in all communication. If you get in the habit of writing correctly, then you will do it all the time. Ignoring conventions in emails is like ignoring the fact that two plus two equls four in informal math computations. And even if a computerized register can do the calculations for you, you need to know the correct numbers yourself. Computers make computations faster but they are not a substitute for your brain and the knowledge you should have inside your own head.
M.E.
December 3rd, 2012
8:38 am
It’s the details that are getting past our kids, and what are not being emphasized by the teachers. Cursive, appropriate spelling, and simple math are difficult for my brilliant AP kids, one of whom is now working on a doctorate. I was a regional spelling champ and I constantly asked at home, “Shouldn’t you spell that correctly?” “Nah, the teachers don’t care,” was the reply. I believe it is it because there is little time available to be spent on the details. The homework for gifted kids is heavier than for the regular programming, the classes are large, and everyone needs to get home to a music lesson, sports practice, or to play on the computer or other technological device. My kids can speak about ideas and use very large words in context, but, no, they can’t spell or write them down without grammatical errors or even multiply 42 x 3 in their heads.
the prof
December 3rd, 2012
8:43 am
Doesn’t the early grades (K-2) curriculum teach them to attempt to spell phonetically rather than emphasizing spelling?
bootney farnsworth
December 3rd, 2012
8:57 am
“Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much?”
please tell me this is some kind of stupid trick question
Jaynie
December 3rd, 2012
8:59 am
I have been disturbed by the lack of correction my grandchildren have received on school papers they’ve done. They have gotten 100’s on papers that have atrocious handwriting, spelling and grammatical errors. When I’ve asked about this, my grandchildren tell me their teachers don’t “count off” for spelling or grammar errors. I cannot imagine why not. If I sent out papers with grammar or spelling errors on them, I would not have a job for very long. Handwriting, spelling and grammar are very important in obtaining and keeping a job. Teaching children grammar and spelling is critical.
Once Again
December 3rd, 2012
9:00 am
If it matters to a parent, it should matter to the school. That is why top-down government run education should be completely ended. Only the marketplace, full of freely competing businesses, should address education (along with home schooling). Only in the face of chronic failure of the government system would this question even come up. Parents have a responsibility to insure that their children get properly educated – this includes spelling, grammar, etc. Parents need to step up and demand that the failed system be ended so they can take their money back and re-assume responsiblity for their children.
D
December 3rd, 2012
9:06 am
My daughter’s elementary school does a wonderful job with writing style and grammar, but I have noticed less emphasis on spelling accuracy. I’m sure there is some rationale behind this. May as well show them how to use spellcheck on Powerpoint.
Digger
December 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
Please, please, don’t pose a math question. All the present and past educators on this blog will argue until eternity.
Maureen Downey
December 3rd, 2012
9:11 am
@bootney, The question here is whether it ought to matter in public performances — should schools only show student work that has been wiped clean of all errors? Or, at the very least, should teachers, when presenting student work that contains errors, explain why they didn’t have kids clean up their spelling or grammar for mass public consumption?
Maureen
AtlSteve
December 3rd, 2012
9:39 am
I remember having spelling classes from the 2nd grage through the 8th grade. When writing papers (for all English courses) we were graded on spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure through the 12th grade.
Art
December 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
Does it really matter? When the State of Georgia comes out as the 48 in schooling the students out of 50 does it really matter? Governor Deal cut the HOPE program to where a student with just under the 3.0 can not get any help to go to college so they give up.
Then you have a state which allows a student to drop out of high school at the age of 16 does that matter. How can mom and dad or maybe just mom allow their children to drop out.
Everyone has ideas and the State of Georgia claims that they are looking hard to see what they can do to bring up those grades. Yet, what I read in our little newspaper the State of Georgia are missing or refusing to ask the “teachers”. Those are the people who they should be listing to, ask those teachers who teach grade school what needs to be done or changed.
I remember my two children coming home with a ton of home work, sometimes they would stay up as late as 11 pm. I would ask myself then what are they doing all day long.
The school system is a mess and if the State of Georgia keeps dragging it’s feet so will the children and the State of Gerogia will fall behing more.
What happens when the teacher's comments contain spelling errors?
December 3rd, 2012
9:52 am
“‘I tell my students to insert the words “it is” in the sentence. If it makes sense, use the contraction “it’s”. If the word is followed by a noun, the correct spelling is “its” – a possessive pronoun. Same thing for they’re/their!’
Same thing my teachers taught me in the sixties.”
Same thing my teachers taught me in the seventies.
I suspect that many teachers today *can’t* correct spelling and grammatical errors, because they themselves don’t know the material. Sad.
AlreadySheared
December 3rd, 2012
9:56 am
No need to round up the calvary on this – spellcheck can fix everything.
Dennis
December 3rd, 2012
9:58 am
Spelling absolutely matters.
In the past few days I have read in editorials ‘principle’ which should have been “principal”; and ‘profit’ which should have been “prophet.”
I call that “poor public performance.”
One expects better from journalism.
AlreadySheared
December 3rd, 2012
9:59 am
Squirrel haven’s hunters rarin’ to shoot
Damage to wiring, pecan trees vexes east Ga. town
By JOHN KESSLER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 10/24/04
WASHINGTON, Ga. — Die, Nutkin, die.
This east Georgia town hasn’t yet brought out the calvary on its runaway squirrel population. But it has opened season on these pesky creatures, which chew through wiring, clean out entire pecan harvests and rarely manage to cross Washington’s charming, tree-lined streets before meeting their fate.
Batgirl
December 3rd, 2012
10:03 am
If a student’s work is to be presented as exemplary, then it should definitely be corrected before it is posted. At the very least, in elementary and middle school, proper nouns and the first words of sentences should be capitalized, there should be end punctuation, and all words should be spelled correctly.
Bad spelling drives me nuts. There are plenty of tools available to help with spelling.
Grammar, however, is a little more subjective. I know that I struggle with commas. I either use too many or not enough. From reading the posts here, I see that others struggle with subject/verb agreement and incorrect use of reflexive pronouns among other problems.
AlreadySheared
December 3rd, 2012
10:11 am
I think that as long as there is parady between student grade level and expectoration, it is ok.
oldtimer
December 3rd, 2012
10:12 am
It should have been corrected before being presented.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
10:29 am
When I saw the title, I thought it was about handwriting and I was going to say “Handwriting will be the domain of upper tier private schools.” I have had a portion of students with dysfunctional handwriting, as if they received very little direction grades 1-5, or nobody was home on the adult side during the years when the students rightfully were supposed to learn penmanship. I have had so many students with seemingly self-taught survival level penmanship skills. Students who question the use of margins or do what I call “bubble writing” where the lower case letters occupy the entire line space floor to ceiling and much of the letter formation is based on circles. I say apply attention to what is going on in the elementary schools and are students getting their sequential foundation there.
Another comment
December 3rd, 2012
10:35 am
I started in Catholic School, Geade 1 at age 5 with a mid Dec Birthday, in 1966. I had zero previous schooling, although I learned to read the newspaper by my self at 3. We were read to ever night by our high school dropout mother while my father was at his second shift job. We had 40 kids in my first grade class, Ironically taught in New York State by Sister Marietta. The other Maureen in my class, was dying of lykemia. She was 14 days younger than me, and the reason that I had been accepted so young. She had only wanted to go to school before she died. Which did happen the next summer, she is ironically buried 2 rows in front of both sets of my grand parents in the local cemetery.
I don’t recall Sr. Marietta or the lay teachers I had the next two years, followed by nuns again for three more years having any problem with 40 student class rooms. I do remember my second grade teacher pulling out a paddle for one of the boys. Boys being sent to the principal Sister Marion for pink construction paper ties. The biggest scandal at the school was when two or three of the wealthiest boys who attended the school decided to streal the tape recorders from the library in the 6th grade. The Priests would not let the parents buy their way out of this for their son’s. Instead they made the boys paint the exterior of the two story rectory during the summer. With the threat that if it happened agin the boys would next paint the convent. Every parent of couse made sure to drive their children by to see what Gould happen for misbehavior. Very Tom Sawyer like.
High 30 student to 40 students in the Catholic School I went to growing up was do able because, their was first complete control of discipline. Fear of the Nuns, Priests and Lay teachers. Then you never wanted your parents to be called.
The second thing is we did not have homework. We were expected to read at home and practice our cursive writing. I don’t recall ever having homework at this school until the 6th grade. Of course their was only mimiographs back then and not copiers. So none of the endless wasteful copy sheets sent home.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
10:35 am
I was looking at local computer listing for tutoring and someone had posted a tutoring add and in the body of the text they had two misspelled words including misspelling the the word “tutor.” The text was written pretty well. The misspelling was either artful or someone was in an awfully big hurry. Also saw at least two adds of people offering to do online course work for pay. Emphasis “online” rate $35./hour for “tutoring” = real politik “I will do your work for you and you will get credit for the class.” Looks like these for-profit online schools are pretty open for computer log-in and no questioning or confirming who is doing the chores. I recently did this with an adult student, we sat there and I did all of the problems and asked the student to do some of them. The student was learning and it was better than nothing and them failing the class. But I didn’t charge $35.’/hr to do this. Yes, the computer online learning interface is wide open for exploit.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
10:36 am
adds = ads = advertisements
Jarod Apperson
December 3rd, 2012
10:42 am
If the question is about which papers should be shown in public, I think teachers should be free to choose which work they want to highlight. If they think an example shows great insight if not polished, I don’t see why they shouldn’t show the work. It seems though that they would at least comment on the number of spelling and grammar errors.
When it comes to actual education, I think a focus on spelling and grammar are important. The process teaches us some level of self control and attention to detail. Most people don’t naturally like to edit their work, just like most don’t naturally like to check their answers to a completed test. We have to teach ourselves to edit even though it doesn’t come naturally. It is also a relevant skill for some jobs. In my office, reports are reviewed/edited by at least 3 people before they are issued. As a supervisor, few things are more annoying than an employee who doesn’t review his/her work before handing it to me.
Maureen Downey
December 3rd, 2012
10:43 am
@Already, Doubt you have to go back to 2004 for a cavalry/Calvary misuse. I see them all the time.
Maureen
Jarod Apperson
December 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
If the question is whether its ok to edit student work before presenting it, I would say no unless that’s disclosed.
Janet
December 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
Don’t always judge a book by it’s cover. This issue is a struggle for me as we are in the process of diagnosing my 1st grader with dyslexia. She is very advanced in math and reading comprehension (5th grade level), but really struggles with phonetic reading and spelling, and with her writing in general. Phonics, punctuation, and word spacing seem to make no sense to her. When she writes her ABCs, they are perfect. When she tries to create words using those same letters in a story, it’s barely legible.
She is in public school in South Forsyth county and reading on grade level. They are recommending her for the gifted classes, but worry her handwriting will hold her back. As most of you probably already know, dyslexia is not recognized in public school. As her parent, my goal is to nurture her growing brain and knowledge base with programs like Horizons, which I’m sure she is ready for, and try to get accomodations for the bad handwriting. I think it would be a damn shame for crush the potential learning possibilites for my kid or any kid like this because of poor handwriting. So in my view, handwriting/spelling is important… but higher level thinking or “insight” is more important.
In my work, I have come across some highly intelligent people, genuises in fact, that couldn’t write See Spot Run without making a spelling error. One of them once told me, after recognizing that he had me a really silly spelling error… “and that’s why God made copy editors”.
RCB
December 3rd, 2012
10:55 am
Any work displayed for public view should be exemplary. Why should students be rewarded for sloppy work? These are very basic, simple spelling/grammar problems we’re talking about here. Not a thesis. Somewhere along the line some of these students should have received lower grades than they probably did, lest it hurt their feelings. Spelling DOES matter in the real working world. Reading is one exercise that reinforces proper spelling and grammar.
SPARKY
December 3rd, 2012
11:15 am
This is needed for work?
I’d say 20% of white-collar workers know the difference between e.g. and i.e.
And how many here could quickly conjugate lie and lay without looking it up?
LeeH1
December 3rd, 2012
11:24 am
The agricultural business will always need field workers, and it doesn’t matter if they can read or write or count. The fast food industry will also need burger flippers who don’t need to read or write or to count.
The upper crust and elites of all societies will need people to take orders from them and to fetch for them and to clean for them. The people taking orders and fetching and cleaning won’t need to read or write or to count.
Society will always need people who can’t do certain things. That’s why we need people who can’t or won’t read or write or do math. If your young child can’t or won’t read or write or do math, then it may be comforting to you to already know what they will be doing in life as a grown-up.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:33 am
Maureen, The question here is whether it ought to matter in public performances — should schools only show student work that has been wiped clean of all errors? Or, at the very least, should teachers, when presenting student work that contains errors, explain why they didn’t have kids clean up their spelling or grammar for mass public consumption?
This is politicizing correctness. I’ve posted student work and then had review people come by and find error and go “Ohhhhhh.” Maybe I posted the work because the student made a breakthrough or the idea is strong or the presentation is artful. I am not going to forge / edit the student’s work and there is no time to make perfect with the students. The point it is a display of the student’s work. It is like a camera picture. It is not ab object to entertain those who occupy themselves with the authority ritual.
erin
December 3rd, 2012
11:34 am
Spelling, grammar and punctuation DO count and teachers SHOULD be strictly grading both … within reason, of course, and depending on the grade level.
As for teachers not knowing the material themselves? I once had a teacher in sixth grade (this was in 1986) who was trying to teach us a bit about Mexican culture and was writing the word “ole” on the board. Except she spelled it “olay.” Seriously. Olay.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:36 am
Maureen, The question here is whether it ought to matter in public performances — should schools only show student work that has been wiped clean of all errors? Or, at the very least, should teachers, when presenting student work that contains errors, explain why they didn’t have kids clean up their spelling or grammar for mass public consumption?
This is politicizing correctness. I’ve posted student work and then had review people come by and find error and go “Ohhhhhh.” Maybe I posted the work because the student made a breakthrough or the idea is strong or the presentation is artful. I am not going to forge / edit the student’s work and there is no time to make perfect with the students. The point it is a display of the student’s work. It is like a camera picture. It is not an object to entertain those who occupy themselves with the authority ritual.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:39 am
Again and again, maybe two different concepts, “student work in the school house” and “mass public consumption” = electronic media or published printing?
PS had a principal that would send informal emails, like “cool” shorthand to friends. I sure wasn’t going to tell them how to make their email. I guess if you got one of those, you were on the “inside.”
Rich30084
December 3rd, 2012
11:51 am
As Professor Higgins noted ( My Fair Lady), The way one speaks denotes their class. The same can be said of writing…
AngryRedMarsWoman
December 3rd, 2012
11:53 am
“Do we really need cashiers who can count?” Big pet peeve of mine. Say the total is $15.35 and I hand the cashier a $20 bill. Cashier taps in “$20″ and out pops the register, so the cashier can look at the screen and then stick four singles in my hand with the receipt and put sixty-five cents on top. Back in the stone ages of the 1980s when I worked in a grocery store the registers told us the correct change, but we were still taught to count it back to the customer – coins first “and $0.65 makes $16″ and then the bills “$17, $18, $19 and $20″. Is that so hard? Want to really mess them up? When the total is $15.55, hand the cashier $21.05….she will look at you like you are crazy until she types in the numbers and sees the change amount and maybe realizes that you were trying for the $5 and quarters. Mental math keeps your mind sharp.
RJ
December 3rd, 2012
12:14 pm
Although I teach a non-core class, I’ve been told in several meetings to just make kids write. Spelling is not as important as them putting their ideas on paper. Wow! Spelling and handwriting as a thing of the past.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Interesting that this subject comes up. In rural areas like mine, most of the local papers print letters to Santa Claus and instructions on “how to cook a turkey” at Thanksgiving, written by elementary school students. These are usually first and second graders but sometimes they may print some from third graders or even fourth graders. These letters run the gamut from the serious to the comical when it comes to content (most seem to think it takes 5-10 minutes to cook a turkey), which is to be expected at that grade level. What always sticks out is with rare exceptions, the spelling is atrocious. These are simple writings, with few if any “big words” and just simple declarative sentences. It makes me think more time needs to be spent on the basics and less on the bells and whistles.
Do we really need cashiers who can count?
I have a sibling who used to work in retail. Said the younger co-workers were always flabbergasted to see her count change back to somebody. It was a totally foreign concept to them.
indigo
December 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Oh, I don’t know. In my last job, the bosses’ son, a college graduate, would routinely send e-mails filled with spelling and grammar errors that tenth graders in my 50’s high school would not have made. Somehow, he managed to keep his cushy job and spent most of the day yaking on the phone or playing golf.
Me
December 3rd, 2012
12:34 pm
It matters. Sadly, grammar and spelling are not really seen as important until students get in around the fourth or fifth grade. Of course the damage is done and then it is too late. Parents play a big part in this. They don’t let elementary school do what it is suppose to do which is build the foundations for future education. Instead they want it as the feel good years full of play centers and social interactions. Ask a teacher that actually takes off points for spelling and grammar rules, and he or she will tell you that many parent will lose it if their child’s grade is effected by something as minor as spelling one third of the words wrong. LOL! It’s crazy.
I have always believed that the major problems with education (other than parents)is the elementary schools. People keep trying to fix things from the roof (upper level grades) when it is the foundation (elementary) that is broken. Students no longer have a strong foundation so their educational houses are weak.
no name
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
My latest pet peeve is seeing an apostrophe before the “s” in a word that is plural. Right now I’m dying to send a note to my school’s athletic director who just sent an e-mail to everyone, asking us to congratulate our “Athlete’s of the Month”. And, the word is spelled “athlete’s” every time it is used in the body of the e-mail. Really?
3schoolkids
December 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
I think some schools would rather see the mistakes made by students as a way to ensure the student is doing his/her own work. However, in this instance those mistakes should definitely be corrected (even if just for the student’s eyes) and explained to the student.
Don't Tread
December 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
We graduate people from college (not just 4 year degrees, but MBAs) who can’t spell words correctly or use the correct word in a sentence “Education” these days is a joke.
We need to return to the days when you weren’t promoted to the next grade if you didn’t learn the material. Enough of the social promotion and grade inflation already. If your feelings get hurt, so what!
SBinF
December 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
Are you joking? If we required the kids to learn how to spell, we’d be holding them accountable, and you can’t have that. Expect standards of the students and you get any number of excuses from their parents and therapists as to why it’s impossible to comply with a simple expectation.
Parents that expect excellence from their children will get it. Those who don’t will get kids that can’t read, spell, add, or subtract.
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
AlreadySheared,
I agree with raising expectorations. We should all do more of it! I was quite good at it when i was a student. I’m not so sure about the paradays, though. With 7 days in a week, it doesn’t break the weak up evenly.
Bill T
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
@ ‘Another Comment’ 10:35am-Was that Holy Cross elementary school on 43rd st in NYC? If so, I had Sister ‘Marianna’ is first grade in 1956. Learned a lot there even though there were 50+ kids in the class.
indigo
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
bootney
Don’t you worry now, little sport.
Rich kid homeschoolers like you can cheat your way thru and then go to work for your rich daddies.
Halftrack
December 3rd, 2012
2:01 pm
We have too many technical devices today. People can not think rationally or logically today. These devices should be banned before entering 7th grade. The word processor, calculator, or other devices are no better than the brain in the head that uses them. There are not many people that understand how to handle exceptions to a rule or recognize non-routine circumstances to a situation. We are becoming like mice in a laboratory experiment.
catmom
December 3rd, 2012
2:07 pm
Maureen, I can’t believe you even have to ask. Does it matter? YES.
Writing isn’t exquisite if it contains spelling and grammatical errors.
Inman Park Boy
December 3rd, 2012
2:18 pm
Just reading these entries is enough to make one ill. By the way, Power Point has spell check.
catmom
December 3rd, 2012
2:22 pm
@Mountain Man: Years ago one of my teachers told me about the “it is” test to figure out whether to use “it’s” or “its.” I’ve never had a problem with it since.
Colonel Jack
December 3rd, 2012
2:41 pm
The proper use of “it’s” and “its” (and there/they’re/their) matters a great deal. Several years ago, our system was being “advised” by one of those $150,000-a-year, couldn’t-cut-it-in-the-classroom “advisors” who told us – elementary, middle, and high school teachers – that students were perfectly fine using what she called “inventive spelling” as long as we understood what they were trying to say. When another teacher pointed out that the students probably had no idea of what they were trying to say, everyone in the room laughed, except the “advisor.” She set her mouth in a firm line and repeated that inventive spelling was perfectly fine with her. And our superintendent agreed.
I can’t speak for what any of my colleagues did, but when I gave my students essay questions on a test, I took points off for poor grammar, improper punctuation, and especially inventive spelling. After being called on the carpet for it twice, I informed my principal that I had no intention of accepting what would be unacceptable in the world we were (supposedly) preparing the children for, and she was free to punish me as she saw fit. I don’t know what happened after that, but even though I continued to reject inventive spelling, the subject was never brought up with me again.
Within two years, the “advisor” was gone, having raped our system of close to a million dollars on her program that she guaranteed would increase test scores, and in fact brought them down.
This was my experience. Your mileage may vary.
sayitaintso
December 3rd, 2012
2:57 pm
My family has been told that spelling is not as pervasive in some county systems but is still an important measure in others. My daughter’s school still emphasizes spelling and punctuation despite some of the horrid examples in a few home “flyers.” Spell checks will get you so far but often change the right “word” into the right spelled “wood.”
Richard
December 3rd, 2012
3:04 pm
This question of “should spelling matter” represents the inability of our entire society to look past the 3 inches in front of our faces and see the bigger picture.
Does it matter if a 5th grader can’t spell on a paper presented to parents? No, not in the slightest.
Does it matter if an employee sends an email to a client littered with spelling and grammatical errors? Oh yes.
At what point do we draw the line between when it matters, and when it doesn’t?
I had a teacher in high school who assigned a term paper. He gave a warning at the time it was assigned which I still remember: “I’m an expert in her Majesty’s English. If I catch one spelling or gramatical error, you fail. I won’t bother reading the rest.” When asked why he was taking that harsh a stance, he said that if we didn’t care enough to edit our work, why should he waste his time with it? I suggest teachers do the same.
By the way, there are two kinds of material schools need to teach: material that develops a student’s ability to think, and material that helps prevent the student from looking and sounding like an idiot.
Atlanta Mom
December 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm
I believe if I wanted to display a student’s work, I would tell the student that was my plan, and ask him/her to correct any errors. Of course, it’s one thing if the student ‘s work has an error, but I truly hate it when the teacher has a spelling error on the white board. I believe an English teacher should be required to review all white boards prior to an open house.
Beverly Fraud
December 3rd, 2012
3:24 pm
Two bee or knot too be, that is the kwestion.
Ray
December 3rd, 2012
3:30 pm
If a child reads a lot, then they will likely be good at writing, spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. Kids need to read!
It is my experience that adults who can’t write well, or make a lot of spelling or grammatical errors, usually don’t think very clearly, or at least don’t think things through very well. In other words, fuzzy writing usually equates to fuzzy thinking. Learning how to write, spell, punctuate, and use good grammar matters.
Beverly Fraud
December 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
But what if a student says, “I’m just channeling my inner e e cummings”?
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
3:54 pm
Boy, did Maureen hit you guy’s hot button!
Mountain Man,
We’re the same generation. I wouldn’t promote anyone who didn’t know the difference between there, their, or they’re either, but my boss did. It’s not about competency; it’s about loyalty. If you’ve “got your boss’s back,” it doesn’t matter if you’re dis-functionally illiterate; you’re going to get promoted.
As a teacher, I don’t tolerate misspellings… well yeah, I do. My old English teacher would give an “F” for a single misspelled word OR a missed punctuation mark. I merely deduct 10 points for each one. My students think I am the the antichrist, even though I give them a chance to correct their mistakes, and before someone remarks about how the the spellchecker (too late!) will catch the mistakes, you might want to do a Google search for “Ode to a Spellchecker.”
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
3:56 pm
oops! grammar checker went to sleep …you guyS’ hot button
williebkind
December 3rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Because of questions like these come up, there should be plenty of charter schools.
Claudia Stucke
December 3rd, 2012
4:48 pm
Grammar and spelling mistakes distract readers and muddle meaning. I’ve heard speculation that most students don’t really pay attention to grammar rules until they begin learning an additional language, but by then they may have already reinforced some bad communication habits. Before I began teaching high school English, I was an editor for about twenty years. My clients knew that they would not be taken seriously unless their writing was clear and their usage correct. (Case in point: A university professor had me edit his work after a colleague had published a paper in which he referred to a politician’s “pubic [he meant public, of course] record.” My client said that he never again trusted Spellcheck and sent all his work to me first before submitting it to peer-reviewed journals.)
When I handed out copies of exemplars of student work, I also included a rubric that explained that content and ideas counted for 40 percent of the student’s grade; and organization, voice/tone, and mechanics (spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.) counted 20 percent each. Usually by the time a student had revised a paper to receive an A, the paper contained very few mechanical errors; and those errors were noted in the margin. Sometimes parents would argue about corrections, but I usually set those concerns aside if given the opportunity to meet with parents one-on-one. (Grammar Checker is often inaccurate.)
I wonder if teachers are sometimes hesitant to mark every error for fear of discouraging students (or upsetting parents). In grad school we were taught NOT to mark “every single spelling or grammatical error.” So what’s acceptable? When I edited textbooks, the publisher told the editorial staff not to use red pen or pencil, “because the professors who wrote the books will feel as if they’re being graded.” That suggests to me that corrections were seen as punitive rather than instructive.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
5:21 pm
“because the professors who wrote the books will feel as if they’re being graded.”
A lot of irony in that.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:05 pm
Yes, of course it matters. There is a big difference between “their” and “there” and “your” and “you’re”. The problem is the teachers. My children’s teachers cannot write nor speak common, everyday, English. Two of three APS teachers have appalling grammar. They cannot use past tense and their subjecs and verbs disagree. They often use a plural verby with a singular subject. “Do (sic) he need to use the bathroom?” instead of “DOES he need to use the bathroom?”
All best works should be showcased but with (sic) inserted where problems exist. The trouble is, many APS teachers couldn’t pass an elementary school grammar or writing test and many teachers are uneducated. I am still trying to “un-teach” the horrible grammar my children’s teacher taught them by example.
The worst part is — what is learned first is what sticks. My children went to school to learn and instead they were taught to speak as an ignorant fool.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:13 pm
Leehi1 — I understand your point with a caveat. When those children go to work at McDonalds flipping burgers, you and I have to pay for their health care and every other social program used to support those who don’t have a real education.
If people don’t get an education it doesn’t affect only them — it affects all of we tax paying middle class citizens too.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:14 pm
Sticky keyboard —
subjects not subjecs
verbs not verby
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
8:24 pm
I do not recall the exact grade level, but I recall when as a kid-student, when I misspelled a word, the assigned remedy was to write the word ten times in a vertical column. It was a good and simple method.
Dekalbite
December 3rd, 2012
9:04 pm
Student writing should not be constricted by spelling or grammar in the first draft. The emphasis should be on content. However, there should always be a second and third and fourth and as many drafts as necessary to arrive at the perfect paper. And most student writing should be for public consumption even if it is only shown to classmates. Having students write a really good story or informational article emails a lot of work. If they labor over one really good story or article that they have written and ensure it is perfect, they will learn more about the rules of grammar than you can imagine.
It does studens a disservice to allow any of their work for public consumption to be displayed with spelling and grammar errors. Writing with spelling and grammar errors is difficult to read. That is why we have spelling and grammar rules. No matter how interesting or original their writing or thoughts are, they will lose most of their audience if they cannot follow the rules of written language.
Truth in Moderation
December 3rd, 2012
9:06 pm
As a home schooler, I have used an old-fashioned phonics based reading program which also incorporates grammar and spelling throughout K-12. While not perfect, all of mine are competent spellers and writers and often notice the sub-par standards and abilities of their contemporaries. My youngest often helps them make spelling corrections during online “chat.” One friend recently greeted him with “Mary Christmas!” He still laughs about it.
I always hold them to a high standard regarding spelling and grammar; all official correspondence and school work must be corrected before it is mailed or turned in. The main reason I am strict on proper language is that the very foundation of our law is at risk if people do not have a reliable standard for understanding the meaning of what is written. The Law of Grammar gives final testimony to the original intent of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers were well trained in Latin and Grammar, choosing every word and grammatical construct in the Bill of Rights with great fastidiousness. They foresaw a future aspiring tyrant who would try to ward off impeachment by challenging the meaning of the word “is.” Bill Clinton keenly understood the symbiotic relationship between language and the law. It’s too bad that the sheeple don’t.
Santa
December 3rd, 2012
10:21 pm
So glad you posted something about spelling. I have been bugging my daughter’s teachers about her spelling for a while now. I was told they are teaching spelling different & that she should look any misspelled words up. I bought spelling books to enhance her spelling. This year her ELA teacher told me I shouldn’t worry as much since she’s not as bad as some of the other students and since they probably will use more electronic communication in the future anyway. Huh??? (What employer wants to hear that?)
Totally not satisfied with this answer so I continue to work with her at home teaching spelling rules. Once again, low expectations in the public school system. Shameful. Interestingly enough, I’ve noticed the new Common Core is teaching spelling rules again & focusing on cursive writing. Go figure!
Cynic
December 3rd, 2012
10:31 pm
Truth in Moderation – It is reassuring to see that the homeschool movement is doing exactly what it needs to – counter the brainwashing of the government system. Thank you so much for caring about your children and america to insure that they are well-educated. If only every parent cared as much.
Private Citizen
December 4th, 2012
2:04 am
The other thing is that for students to write competently, they need to be reading quality material so that words have meaning. We used to read literature level stories. I think much of this has been replaced with for-profit “pop culture” children’s authors. It is a whole industry, the utterly forgettable “Scholastic” type books. They’re not written as literature, they’re made as something to exploit a market. I do not say this lightly. They exploit the nervy “light” consumer mindset children are under. Anything heavier is either considered to be unacceptable content or it not viewed on par with the engineered “diversity” books. You can teach some dopey engineered pop-culture recently created for-profit fiction book with a Latino story line, but god help you if you actually taught from a real Latin American author from Brazil. The Newberry award winning “Bridge to Terabithia” fiasco is a good example of engineered for-profit education culture. It was a completely meaningless light book and then right on cue as it was being used in curriculum, the movie people made a big showy movie out of it, a movie that completely changed the story line and had them looking for Big Foot, and this was run through the theaters to exploit the dopey U. S. kids who had consumed the book via their schooling. Try and teach Lewis Carroll and Alice in Wonderland with a challenging dimensional story line and some one will try and relieve you from your job. Makes no difference the writing is on a 1000x times difference from the trash and fodder prescribed to children to make-fake with developing their mind and the strength of their mind / reasoning, that they might actually not understand something and have to ask some questions of themselves, of the text, of their teacher, and maybe even of each other. Weep, folks. Know yourselves in shame and weep for what you are doing. http://i2.listal.com/image/320219/600full-bridge-to-terabithia-poster.jpg Please note as you view the poster that there is no “Big Foot” of any kind in the book or even suggested in the book. It is basically an overgrown short story about some kid falling into a river.
Private Citizen
December 4th, 2012
2:14 am
Alice was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, ‘and what is the use of a book,’ thought Alice ‘without pictures or conversation?’
So she was considering in her own mind (as well as she could, for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid), whether the pleasure of making a daisy-chain would be worth the trouble of getting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the Rabbit say to itself, ‘Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!’ (when she thought it over afterwards, it occurred to her that she ought to have wondered at this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural); but when the Rabbit actually took a watch out of its waistcoat-pocket, and looked at it, and then hurried on, Alice started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and fortunately was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge.
In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.
The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling down a very deep well.
Either the well was very deep, or she fell very slowly, for she had plenty of time as she went down to look about her and to wonder what was going to happen next. First, she tried to look down and make out what she was coming to, but it was too dark to see anything; then she looked at the sides of the well, and noticed that they were filled with cupboards and book-shelves; here and there she saw maps and pictures hung upon pegs. She took down a jar from one of the shelves as she passed; it was labelled ‘ORANGE MARMALADE’, but to her great disappointment it was empty: she did not like to drop the jar for fear of killing somebody, so managed to put it into one of the cupboards as she fell past it.
‘Well!’ thought Alice to herself, ‘after such a fall as this, I shall think nothing of tumbling down stairs! How brave they’ll all think me at home! Why, I wouldn’t say anything about it, even if I fell off the top of the house!’ (Which was very likely true.)
____________________________________________
Fiction that uses the setting of a house is not acceptable due to that it will make peasant children who live in apartment buildings feel “less than” someone who lives in a house.
I Teach Writing
December 4th, 2012
5:51 am
I come at this issue from two different angles. I see the means of student production, as I have kids in a GA public elementary school; I also see the finished product nearly daily, as I teach introductory and advanced composition at a GA public university.
Both angles suggest strongly that writing mechanics, like grammar, received less emphasis under NCLB (and likely still does under Common Core) than is warranted. Several teachers have discussed above having received dubious advice from consultants about spelling in particular: “Just get them to write! We’ll worry about spelling later.”
These reports shed light on my parental experience of seeing my daughter receive glowing reports from teachers on pieces of writing with significant spelling problems. The teachers focused on the content (which was excellent) without thinking enough of my child to believe that she could write intelligent, creative work AND take the time to use correct mechanics. And that piper must be paid, eventually.
Sadly, for many students, I embody that piper. They arrive in my classroom with lively, intelligent minds but sub-par grammatical and mechanical skills, so they spend considerable time as university students struggling to advance the depth and complexity of their writing while simultaneously giving themselves a remedial course in writing fundamentals. It is impossible to convey sophisticated, nuanced thought if you can’t use a comma correctly or a corral a group of clauses; it is equally impossible for a reader to take seriously an intellectual proposition that arrives riddled with spelling errors. The writer’s credibility suffers. So even the most faithful of these students end up with lower grades than they would have, had they arrived with an adequate grasp of mechanics — the things I was taught in middle school in the 1980s.
I can’t hope to diagnose all the causes; they are legion. I do think that teachers would be well served to re-think the strategy of what I call “100-Minus” grading. I’ve seen the language of that approach several times in these comments: “I take off for spelling mistakes.” This approach assumes that pieces of writing are inherently good, that it’s our job, as teachers, to point out the flaws that mar the surface of this inherent goodness. Mechanical errors, by this reckoning, are aesthetic problems, things that can be “tidied up” after the fact, rather than fundamental building blocks of a structure of meaning. If we see them as building stones, though, and the written piece as a structure, then we must see each piece as starting from nothing. From this (more accurate) perspective, a grade is built from zero, and every part and piece of the composition interlocks. Poor spelling affects the writer’s credibility, which means less benefit of the doubt elsewhere; effective grammar and spelling, by contrast, progressively build the reader’s trust, and I will more easily grant the writer a tenuous logical connection if she articulates that connection clearly.
Such skills are not Ivory Tower stuffiness, as a number of business-minded commenters above attest. A student who can compose a clear written argument about history, philosophy, or literature can also write a clear and succinct report for her boss, make a convincing case for a new marketing strategy, or smooth ruffled client feathers after a mistake or misunderstanding. In those cases, the right words can be worth millions; the wrong ones may land you on your ear (or at least on the professional “Do Not Resuscitate” list).
Private Citizen
December 4th, 2012
9:07 am
A big part of what is going on in education now globally has to do with a rejection of the rational, abstract mind… The spelling and poor writing are a symptom of what is a very real effort to create New Kinds of Minds. Minds that Feel rather than Know.
Collar, You need to win an award for seeing through this engineered brainwashing.
Long Time Teacher
December 4th, 2012
11:18 am
We must teach even the young to edit their writings. It is unacceptable to have many errors in a final writing. I do not think students realize that they need to rewrite their paper and make a final draft. Teachers do not teach the writing process because it is very time consuming to read through papers.
Private Citizen
December 4th, 2012
12:32 pm
Long Time Teacher, (as you must know) it is difficult to teach well when being dominated with many outside initiatives, often from people far away who are monetarily exploiting the public education structure and manipulating state DOE to do their bidding for them and force-deliver shallow but very real and consuming demands. A good example is Obama-Land 360 degree teacher evaluations. Someone said this would be very expensive to do in the corporate world.
A saying from a math teacher – “They reason you kids can’t do math is because your English teachers are lame.”
GT Alumna
December 4th, 2012
1:02 pm
It matters. My daughter’s 4th grade teacher last year made so many errors “correcting” spelling tests. In one instance, she actually argued with my child on how a word was spelled, even though my daughter came armed with the dictionary. In brief the teacher couldn’t spell the word correctly and she rewarded kids who spelled it wrong. She also did this with grammar mistakes and incorrect math concepts. It took awhile, but my daughter received credit for every erroneous grading mark. The issue became so prevalent that I complained to the administration and… wait for it… they actually defended the teacher, saying she was such a great teacher and that “everyone loved her.” Apparently not.
At the end of the year, I took all my evidence of teacher ignorance into the main office and demanded a specific teacher placement for the next year. The 5th grade teacher we selected for my daughter was known to us, since my son had her three years prior. This teacher is very good in all the core subjects, but she is also a stickler for grammar and has even been known to diagram a sentence or two. The administrator told me that it would be no problem assigning my daughter to her class in 5th grade as most parents requested NOT to get her because she is “too hard.” Apparently, you really can’t fix “stupid.” Bottom line is we got what we wanted and my daughter is learning every day, which is all we asked of the elementary school.
After the first quarter, my daughter commented, “Many kids on the bus told me she was a mean teacher and that I would not enjoy school. They were wrong. She is a demanding teacher and as long as I am prepared, she is very nice to me.” Raise the bar and kids will work to meet it.
Adult Educator
December 4th, 2012
1:38 pm
We write to communicate. In order to communicate effectively, we need to ensure our message is received. Poor writing rife with mistakes causes readers to disregard the information being conveyed. Who are you more likely to hire? The company whose brochure is written well, or the company whose brochure is full of misspellings and grammatical errors? (Most employers will immediately trash any resume that contains a single error).
I teach this for a living. I often find it difficult to convey the importance of good spelling and grammar to my students when many of the flyers posted around campus contain egregious errors. There are people in high-level positions on staff who have somehow earned Master’s degrees yet cannot spell, write, or speak properly. What’s a conscientious educator to do?
Many students coming into college these days can’t write proper sentences, perform simple math functions, read a ruler, reason, or comprehend college-level material. I don’t know how we as a society can help the lost generations who weren’t required to learn these skills in K-12, but I can tell you this: if we do not begin to address and correct the problems now, we are ALL going to be in bad shape twenty years from now.
Consider what happens when nurses aren’t able to correctly measure the prescribed dosage, electricians can’t properly calculate load, teachers can’t spell, etc. If American students can’t pass the certifications required for these positions, either those jobs will go to non-American workers – leaving American students to dig ditches and give you incorrect change at the drive-thru – or the certification tests will be dumbed down just as the K-12 and higher education systems have been. Neither scenario appeals to me.
Truth in Moderation
December 4th, 2012
9:12 pm
@Old Physics Teacher
Thank you for referring us to “Ode to a Spell Checker.” The poem is brilliant! A copy of it now resides next to our home school Mac (sorry PC).
LD
December 5th, 2012
10:28 am
Of course it matters! Part of the reason I do not have a subscription to the AJC is BECAUSE of consistently poor writing by its staff! For example, from an article published yesterday, “. . . met with the schools board members Monday . . .” If the journalists and publishing staff are not adequately proofing their work, what confidence do I have that they are adequately checking their facts?
There is no excuse for a misspelling in a Power Point. Part of the instruction given to the students should be “Always spell check your work!” When I was in school, my papers were given 2 grades – one for content and one for mechanics. Sometimes the grades were equally weighted, sometimes not. But, I always knew BOTH content AND presentation counted! As a society we cannot continually lower the expectation of what defines “good work.” It is time to raise the expectations – not just for students, but for all of us.
Are we ignoring what poor spelling skills could be telling us? | Get Schooled
December 6th, 2012
2:49 am
[...] My posting on spelling and grammar prompted a lot of comments, including this thoughtful email from a high school teacher. [...]
Dekalbite@LD
December 6th, 2012
4:08 pm
“Part of the reason I do not have a subscription to the AJC is BECAUSE of consistently poor writing by its staff!”
As a longtime (30 year) AJC subscriber, I am surprised and dismayed by the spelling and grammar mistakes that used to be exceptionally rare and are now commonplace. When I look closely at those errors however, most of them appear to be errors of too few reporters and too few editors. This is probably a consequence of the ascendence of the Internet as a news source and the decline in readership for printed materials. Lately, I’ve noticed that many of the stories that come off the wire services (e.g. UPI, AP, etc.) also have errors so it’s probably not a problem discreet to the AJC.
N. GA Teacher
December 6th, 2012
10:05 pm
A question was posed made by a previous blogger as to why educators don’t emphasize and critique spelling, grammar, vocabulary, etc. Basically the reason is the Georgia Writing Test, which students must pass to graduate from high school. This “test” essentially judges whether a piece of writing is coherent. The test is incredibly easy. It does not assess spelling, grammar, or any other such aspects. Demanding any sophistication in writing appears to have disappeared from the public school landscape.
Aaron Puley
December 7th, 2012
3:01 pm
For me, the answer is…it depends.
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on purpose and context. Ultimately, it all comes down to the task at hand, what I would like the students to get out of it, what the expectations are (curricular or otherwise), and what the learning goal is.
If the task is brainstorming, collaboration, and inquiry, then I say “No” – spelling and grammar doesn’t count. I would much rather students explore their thoughts openly without fear of being graded / evaluated for structure In my experience, especially with blogging, is that if students are concentrating on mechanics then they tend to filter their thoughts – their creativity is stifled. They end up spending way too much time concentrating on spelling and grammar and not near enough time and energy on thinking, exploring, and collaborating. I also didn’t expect proper spelling and grammar* in replies to blog posts as these, too, are more conversational and supportive in nature.
*Note: I’m not talking about wildly crazy text messaging language here, either, there has to be a happy balance
On the other hand if the blog at hand is a digital portfolio of learning then I would like to see process in exactly the same way I would have expected it earlier in any traditional task – exploration, development, revision, and polish.
To differentiate a blog in this way and to have it serve both purposes, a student could categorize or tag their posts accordingly (i.e. brainstorming, conversation, polished, published, edited etc.) In this case, students would have to consider the purpose of their work, the audience, and how they would like their work to be seen. The writing / creative process can be honoured and the continuum of learning made visible.
If the blog is a collection of polished work only then the rough, unpolished, process work can be posted as a password protected post and shared only with the teacher. The teacher could comment to the post in a private nature this way, thus offering support to the learning of the student in a place separate from the eyes of others.
Another way I explored this was to have students collaborate, explore and share topics in reply on my blog informally and offer more formal work on their personal blogs. This can also be done in groups or forums on social learning network installs like HWDSB Commons or Edmodo.
Spelling and grammar is obviously very important in formal and professional contexts. It shouldn’t have any priority in the process of learning, though – IMHO. Learning is messy – it’s a process – we need to honour that.