Spelling and student writing: Does it matter much? Should it matter more?
With the exception of top brass, very few reporters and editors in newsrooms have offices. Our desks are so close that if I stretch too far, I could knock my colleague Kyle Wingfield in the head. (Not that he couldn’t use a friendly thump to the head now and then. You can read his political blog here.)
So both praise and proscription are often overheard by all in newsrooms. I find it more painful to be a bystander to a pillorying than to be a victim.
One of the worst lashings I ever overheard was directed at a reporter who confused “it’s” and “its” in the lead of an important story, a mistake that also slipped by the copy desk. The editor lamented that the piece could have been a contest entry but for that mistake.
His critique must have stayed with me because I can’t get past the misuse of the words to this day.
And that includes a presentation of new standards in my own school system a while back. The audience was handed examples of excellent student work. And the writing and reasoning were impressive. However, what I remember most was that the 8th grade paper featured an opening sentence that contained both “it’s” and “its,” neither used correctly.
Should it matter?
I remain surprised how often student work chosen for display suffers spelling or grammatical errors. At a school open house, I watched a student PowerPoint on international poverty where I stopped counting after the seventh misspelled word.
Here’s my question to teachers and schools: If you are choosing student work to showcase, is it appropriate to ask students to correct any errors?
The teacher showing us the PowerPoint told us how impressed he was with the perceptions and insights of the sixth graders who created it. I was surprised that he didn’t reference the spelling mistakes, perhaps to explain that he was more concerned with the students’ insights. I couldn’t celebrate their original thinking because I was too busy wishing they knew how to spell “separate” and “Eritrea.”
I understand that the top goal is to prod students to write, but exquisite writing can be undermined by spelling errors.
Should only perfect papers/PowerPoints be shared or should parents see the students’ original work without prettification?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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114 comments Add your comment
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
10:35 am
I was looking at local computer listing for tutoring and someone had posted a tutoring add and in the body of the text they had two misspelled words including misspelling the the word “tutor.” The text was written pretty well. The misspelling was either artful or someone was in an awfully big hurry. Also saw at least two adds of people offering to do online course work for pay. Emphasis “online” rate $35./hour for “tutoring” = real politik “I will do your work for you and you will get credit for the class.” Looks like these for-profit online schools are pretty open for computer log-in and no questioning or confirming who is doing the chores. I recently did this with an adult student, we sat there and I did all of the problems and asked the student to do some of them. The student was learning and it was better than nothing and them failing the class. But I didn’t charge $35.’/hr to do this. Yes, the computer online learning interface is wide open for exploit.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
10:36 am
adds = ads = advertisements
Jarod Apperson
December 3rd, 2012
10:42 am
If the question is about which papers should be shown in public, I think teachers should be free to choose which work they want to highlight. If they think an example shows great insight if not polished, I don’t see why they shouldn’t show the work. It seems though that they would at least comment on the number of spelling and grammar errors.
When it comes to actual education, I think a focus on spelling and grammar are important. The process teaches us some level of self control and attention to detail. Most people don’t naturally like to edit their work, just like most don’t naturally like to check their answers to a completed test. We have to teach ourselves to edit even though it doesn’t come naturally. It is also a relevant skill for some jobs. In my office, reports are reviewed/edited by at least 3 people before they are issued. As a supervisor, few things are more annoying than an employee who doesn’t review his/her work before handing it to me.
Maureen Downey
December 3rd, 2012
10:43 am
@Already, Doubt you have to go back to 2004 for a cavalry/Calvary misuse. I see them all the time.
Maureen
Jarod Apperson
December 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
If the question is whether its ok to edit student work before presenting it, I would say no unless that’s disclosed.
Janet
December 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
Don’t always judge a book by it’s cover. This issue is a struggle for me as we are in the process of diagnosing my 1st grader with dyslexia. She is very advanced in math and reading comprehension (5th grade level), but really struggles with phonetic reading and spelling, and with her writing in general. Phonics, punctuation, and word spacing seem to make no sense to her. When she writes her ABCs, they are perfect. When she tries to create words using those same letters in a story, it’s barely legible.
She is in public school in South Forsyth county and reading on grade level. They are recommending her for the gifted classes, but worry her handwriting will hold her back. As most of you probably already know, dyslexia is not recognized in public school. As her parent, my goal is to nurture her growing brain and knowledge base with programs like Horizons, which I’m sure she is ready for, and try to get accomodations for the bad handwriting. I think it would be a damn shame for crush the potential learning possibilites for my kid or any kid like this because of poor handwriting. So in my view, handwriting/spelling is important… but higher level thinking or “insight” is more important.
In my work, I have come across some highly intelligent people, genuises in fact, that couldn’t write See Spot Run without making a spelling error. One of them once told me, after recognizing that he had me a really silly spelling error… “and that’s why God made copy editors”.
RCB
December 3rd, 2012
10:55 am
Any work displayed for public view should be exemplary. Why should students be rewarded for sloppy work? These are very basic, simple spelling/grammar problems we’re talking about here. Not a thesis. Somewhere along the line some of these students should have received lower grades than they probably did, lest it hurt their feelings. Spelling DOES matter in the real working world. Reading is one exercise that reinforces proper spelling and grammar.
SPARKY
December 3rd, 2012
11:15 am
This is needed for work?
I’d say 20% of white-collar workers know the difference between e.g. and i.e.
And how many here could quickly conjugate lie and lay without looking it up?
LeeH1
December 3rd, 2012
11:24 am
The agricultural business will always need field workers, and it doesn’t matter if they can read or write or count. The fast food industry will also need burger flippers who don’t need to read or write or to count.
The upper crust and elites of all societies will need people to take orders from them and to fetch for them and to clean for them. The people taking orders and fetching and cleaning won’t need to read or write or to count.
Society will always need people who can’t do certain things. That’s why we need people who can’t or won’t read or write or do math. If your young child can’t or won’t read or write or do math, then it may be comforting to you to already know what they will be doing in life as a grown-up.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:33 am
Maureen, The question here is whether it ought to matter in public performances — should schools only show student work that has been wiped clean of all errors? Or, at the very least, should teachers, when presenting student work that contains errors, explain why they didn’t have kids clean up their spelling or grammar for mass public consumption?
This is politicizing correctness. I’ve posted student work and then had review people come by and find error and go “Ohhhhhh.” Maybe I posted the work because the student made a breakthrough or the idea is strong or the presentation is artful. I am not going to forge / edit the student’s work and there is no time to make perfect with the students. The point it is a display of the student’s work. It is like a camera picture. It is not ab object to entertain those who occupy themselves with the authority ritual.
erin
December 3rd, 2012
11:34 am
Spelling, grammar and punctuation DO count and teachers SHOULD be strictly grading both … within reason, of course, and depending on the grade level.
As for teachers not knowing the material themselves? I once had a teacher in sixth grade (this was in 1986) who was trying to teach us a bit about Mexican culture and was writing the word “ole” on the board. Except she spelled it “olay.” Seriously. Olay.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:36 am
Maureen, The question here is whether it ought to matter in public performances — should schools only show student work that has been wiped clean of all errors? Or, at the very least, should teachers, when presenting student work that contains errors, explain why they didn’t have kids clean up their spelling or grammar for mass public consumption?
This is politicizing correctness. I’ve posted student work and then had review people come by and find error and go “Ohhhhhh.” Maybe I posted the work because the student made a breakthrough or the idea is strong or the presentation is artful. I am not going to forge / edit the student’s work and there is no time to make perfect with the students. The point it is a display of the student’s work. It is like a camera picture. It is not an object to entertain those who occupy themselves with the authority ritual.
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
11:39 am
Again and again, maybe two different concepts, “student work in the school house” and “mass public consumption” = electronic media or published printing?
PS had a principal that would send informal emails, like “cool” shorthand to friends. I sure wasn’t going to tell them how to make their email. I guess if you got one of those, you were on the “inside.”
Rich30084
December 3rd, 2012
11:51 am
As Professor Higgins noted ( My Fair Lady), The way one speaks denotes their class. The same can be said of writing…
AngryRedMarsWoman
December 3rd, 2012
11:53 am
“Do we really need cashiers who can count?” Big pet peeve of mine. Say the total is $15.35 and I hand the cashier a $20 bill. Cashier taps in “$20″ and out pops the register, so the cashier can look at the screen and then stick four singles in my hand with the receipt and put sixty-five cents on top. Back in the stone ages of the 1980s when I worked in a grocery store the registers told us the correct change, but we were still taught to count it back to the customer – coins first “and $0.65 makes $16″ and then the bills “$17, $18, $19 and $20″. Is that so hard? Want to really mess them up? When the total is $15.55, hand the cashier $21.05….she will look at you like you are crazy until she types in the numbers and sees the change amount and maybe realizes that you were trying for the $5 and quarters. Mental math keeps your mind sharp.
RJ
December 3rd, 2012
12:14 pm
Although I teach a non-core class, I’ve been told in several meetings to just make kids write. Spelling is not as important as them putting their ideas on paper. Wow! Spelling and handwriting as a thing of the past.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Interesting that this subject comes up. In rural areas like mine, most of the local papers print letters to Santa Claus and instructions on “how to cook a turkey” at Thanksgiving, written by elementary school students. These are usually first and second graders but sometimes they may print some from third graders or even fourth graders. These letters run the gamut from the serious to the comical when it comes to content (most seem to think it takes 5-10 minutes to cook a turkey), which is to be expected at that grade level. What always sticks out is with rare exceptions, the spelling is atrocious. These are simple writings, with few if any “big words” and just simple declarative sentences. It makes me think more time needs to be spent on the basics and less on the bells and whistles.
Do we really need cashiers who can count?
I have a sibling who used to work in retail. Said the younger co-workers were always flabbergasted to see her count change back to somebody. It was a totally foreign concept to them.
indigo
December 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Oh, I don’t know. In my last job, the bosses’ son, a college graduate, would routinely send e-mails filled with spelling and grammar errors that tenth graders in my 50’s high school would not have made. Somehow, he managed to keep his cushy job and spent most of the day yaking on the phone or playing golf.
Me
December 3rd, 2012
12:34 pm
It matters. Sadly, grammar and spelling are not really seen as important until students get in around the fourth or fifth grade. Of course the damage is done and then it is too late. Parents play a big part in this. They don’t let elementary school do what it is suppose to do which is build the foundations for future education. Instead they want it as the feel good years full of play centers and social interactions. Ask a teacher that actually takes off points for spelling and grammar rules, and he or she will tell you that many parent will lose it if their child’s grade is effected by something as minor as spelling one third of the words wrong. LOL! It’s crazy.
I have always believed that the major problems with education (other than parents)is the elementary schools. People keep trying to fix things from the roof (upper level grades) when it is the foundation (elementary) that is broken. Students no longer have a strong foundation so their educational houses are weak.
no name
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
My latest pet peeve is seeing an apostrophe before the “s” in a word that is plural. Right now I’m dying to send a note to my school’s athletic director who just sent an e-mail to everyone, asking us to congratulate our “Athlete’s of the Month”. And, the word is spelled “athlete’s” every time it is used in the body of the e-mail. Really?
3schoolkids
December 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
I think some schools would rather see the mistakes made by students as a way to ensure the student is doing his/her own work. However, in this instance those mistakes should definitely be corrected (even if just for the student’s eyes) and explained to the student.
Don't Tread
December 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
We graduate people from college (not just 4 year degrees, but MBAs) who can’t spell words correctly or use the correct word in a sentence “Education” these days is a joke.
We need to return to the days when you weren’t promoted to the next grade if you didn’t learn the material. Enough of the social promotion and grade inflation already. If your feelings get hurt, so what!
SBinF
December 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
Are you joking? If we required the kids to learn how to spell, we’d be holding them accountable, and you can’t have that. Expect standards of the students and you get any number of excuses from their parents and therapists as to why it’s impossible to comply with a simple expectation.
Parents that expect excellence from their children will get it. Those who don’t will get kids that can’t read, spell, add, or subtract.
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
AlreadySheared,
I agree with raising expectorations. We should all do more of it! I was quite good at it when i was a student. I’m not so sure about the paradays, though. With 7 days in a week, it doesn’t break the weak up evenly.
Bill T
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
@ ‘Another Comment’ 10:35am-Was that Holy Cross elementary school on 43rd st in NYC? If so, I had Sister ‘Marianna’ is first grade in 1956. Learned a lot there even though there were 50+ kids in the class.
indigo
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
bootney
Don’t you worry now, little sport.
Rich kid homeschoolers like you can cheat your way thru and then go to work for your rich daddies.
Halftrack
December 3rd, 2012
2:01 pm
We have too many technical devices today. People can not think rationally or logically today. These devices should be banned before entering 7th grade. The word processor, calculator, or other devices are no better than the brain in the head that uses them. There are not many people that understand how to handle exceptions to a rule or recognize non-routine circumstances to a situation. We are becoming like mice in a laboratory experiment.
catmom
December 3rd, 2012
2:07 pm
Maureen, I can’t believe you even have to ask. Does it matter? YES.
Writing isn’t exquisite if it contains spelling and grammatical errors.
Inman Park Boy
December 3rd, 2012
2:18 pm
Just reading these entries is enough to make one ill. By the way, Power Point has spell check.
catmom
December 3rd, 2012
2:22 pm
@Mountain Man: Years ago one of my teachers told me about the “it is” test to figure out whether to use “it’s” or “its.” I’ve never had a problem with it since.
Colonel Jack
December 3rd, 2012
2:41 pm
The proper use of “it’s” and “its” (and there/they’re/their) matters a great deal. Several years ago, our system was being “advised” by one of those $150,000-a-year, couldn’t-cut-it-in-the-classroom “advisors” who told us – elementary, middle, and high school teachers – that students were perfectly fine using what she called “inventive spelling” as long as we understood what they were trying to say. When another teacher pointed out that the students probably had no idea of what they were trying to say, everyone in the room laughed, except the “advisor.” She set her mouth in a firm line and repeated that inventive spelling was perfectly fine with her. And our superintendent agreed.
I can’t speak for what any of my colleagues did, but when I gave my students essay questions on a test, I took points off for poor grammar, improper punctuation, and especially inventive spelling. After being called on the carpet for it twice, I informed my principal that I had no intention of accepting what would be unacceptable in the world we were (supposedly) preparing the children for, and she was free to punish me as she saw fit. I don’t know what happened after that, but even though I continued to reject inventive spelling, the subject was never brought up with me again.
Within two years, the “advisor” was gone, having raped our system of close to a million dollars on her program that she guaranteed would increase test scores, and in fact brought them down.
This was my experience. Your mileage may vary.
sayitaintso
December 3rd, 2012
2:57 pm
My family has been told that spelling is not as pervasive in some county systems but is still an important measure in others. My daughter’s school still emphasizes spelling and punctuation despite some of the horrid examples in a few home “flyers.” Spell checks will get you so far but often change the right “word” into the right spelled “wood.”
Richard
December 3rd, 2012
3:04 pm
This question of “should spelling matter” represents the inability of our entire society to look past the 3 inches in front of our faces and see the bigger picture.
Does it matter if a 5th grader can’t spell on a paper presented to parents? No, not in the slightest.
Does it matter if an employee sends an email to a client littered with spelling and grammatical errors? Oh yes.
At what point do we draw the line between when it matters, and when it doesn’t?
I had a teacher in high school who assigned a term paper. He gave a warning at the time it was assigned which I still remember: “I’m an expert in her Majesty’s English. If I catch one spelling or gramatical error, you fail. I won’t bother reading the rest.” When asked why he was taking that harsh a stance, he said that if we didn’t care enough to edit our work, why should he waste his time with it? I suggest teachers do the same.
By the way, there are two kinds of material schools need to teach: material that develops a student’s ability to think, and material that helps prevent the student from looking and sounding like an idiot.
Atlanta Mom
December 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm
I believe if I wanted to display a student’s work, I would tell the student that was my plan, and ask him/her to correct any errors. Of course, it’s one thing if the student ‘s work has an error, but I truly hate it when the teacher has a spelling error on the white board. I believe an English teacher should be required to review all white boards prior to an open house.
Beverly Fraud
December 3rd, 2012
3:24 pm
Two bee or knot too be, that is the kwestion.
Ray
December 3rd, 2012
3:30 pm
If a child reads a lot, then they will likely be good at writing, spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. Kids need to read!
It is my experience that adults who can’t write well, or make a lot of spelling or grammatical errors, usually don’t think very clearly, or at least don’t think things through very well. In other words, fuzzy writing usually equates to fuzzy thinking. Learning how to write, spell, punctuate, and use good grammar matters.
Beverly Fraud
December 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
But what if a student says, “I’m just channeling my inner e e cummings”?
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
3:54 pm
Boy, did Maureen hit you guy’s hot button!
Mountain Man,
We’re the same generation. I wouldn’t promote anyone who didn’t know the difference between there, their, or they’re either, but my boss did. It’s not about competency; it’s about loyalty. If you’ve “got your boss’s back,” it doesn’t matter if you’re dis-functionally illiterate; you’re going to get promoted.
As a teacher, I don’t tolerate misspellings… well yeah, I do. My old English teacher would give an “F” for a single misspelled word OR a missed punctuation mark. I merely deduct 10 points for each one. My students think I am the the antichrist, even though I give them a chance to correct their mistakes, and before someone remarks about how the the spellchecker (too late!) will catch the mistakes, you might want to do a Google search for “Ode to a Spellchecker.”
Old Physics Teacher
December 3rd, 2012
3:56 pm
oops! grammar checker went to sleep …you guyS’ hot button
williebkind
December 3rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Because of questions like these come up, there should be plenty of charter schools.
Claudia Stucke
December 3rd, 2012
4:48 pm
Grammar and spelling mistakes distract readers and muddle meaning. I’ve heard speculation that most students don’t really pay attention to grammar rules until they begin learning an additional language, but by then they may have already reinforced some bad communication habits. Before I began teaching high school English, I was an editor for about twenty years. My clients knew that they would not be taken seriously unless their writing was clear and their usage correct. (Case in point: A university professor had me edit his work after a colleague had published a paper in which he referred to a politician’s “pubic [he meant public, of course] record.” My client said that he never again trusted Spellcheck and sent all his work to me first before submitting it to peer-reviewed journals.)
When I handed out copies of exemplars of student work, I also included a rubric that explained that content and ideas counted for 40 percent of the student’s grade; and organization, voice/tone, and mechanics (spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.) counted 20 percent each. Usually by the time a student had revised a paper to receive an A, the paper contained very few mechanical errors; and those errors were noted in the margin. Sometimes parents would argue about corrections, but I usually set those concerns aside if given the opportunity to meet with parents one-on-one. (Grammar Checker is often inaccurate.)
I wonder if teachers are sometimes hesitant to mark every error for fear of discouraging students (or upsetting parents). In grad school we were taught NOT to mark “every single spelling or grammatical error.” So what’s acceptable? When I edited textbooks, the publisher told the editorial staff not to use red pen or pencil, “because the professors who wrote the books will feel as if they’re being graded.” That suggests to me that corrections were seen as punitive rather than instructive.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
5:21 pm
“because the professors who wrote the books will feel as if they’re being graded.”
A lot of irony in that.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:05 pm
Yes, of course it matters. There is a big difference between “their” and “there” and “your” and “you’re”. The problem is the teachers. My children’s teachers cannot write nor speak common, everyday, English. Two of three APS teachers have appalling grammar. They cannot use past tense and their subjecs and verbs disagree. They often use a plural verby with a singular subject. “Do (sic) he need to use the bathroom?” instead of “DOES he need to use the bathroom?”
All best works should be showcased but with (sic) inserted where problems exist. The trouble is, many APS teachers couldn’t pass an elementary school grammar or writing test and many teachers are uneducated. I am still trying to “un-teach” the horrible grammar my children’s teacher taught them by example.
The worst part is — what is learned first is what sticks. My children went to school to learn and instead they were taught to speak as an ignorant fool.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:13 pm
Leehi1 — I understand your point with a caveat. When those children go to work at McDonalds flipping burgers, you and I have to pay for their health care and every other social program used to support those who don’t have a real education.
If people don’t get an education it doesn’t affect only them — it affects all of we tax paying middle class citizens too.
Pride and Joy
December 3rd, 2012
8:14 pm
Sticky keyboard —
subjects not subjecs
verbs not verby
Private Citizen
December 3rd, 2012
8:24 pm
I do not recall the exact grade level, but I recall when as a kid-student, when I misspelled a word, the assigned remedy was to write the word ten times in a vertical column. It was a good and simple method.
Dekalbite
December 3rd, 2012
9:04 pm
Student writing should not be constricted by spelling or grammar in the first draft. The emphasis should be on content. However, there should always be a second and third and fourth and as many drafts as necessary to arrive at the perfect paper. And most student writing should be for public consumption even if it is only shown to classmates. Having students write a really good story or informational article emails a lot of work. If they labor over one really good story or article that they have written and ensure it is perfect, they will learn more about the rules of grammar than you can imagine.
It does studens a disservice to allow any of their work for public consumption to be displayed with spelling and grammar errors. Writing with spelling and grammar errors is difficult to read. That is why we have spelling and grammar rules. No matter how interesting or original their writing or thoughts are, they will lose most of their audience if they cannot follow the rules of written language.
Truth in Moderation
December 3rd, 2012
9:06 pm
As a home schooler, I have used an old-fashioned phonics based reading program which also incorporates grammar and spelling throughout K-12. While not perfect, all of mine are competent spellers and writers and often notice the sub-par standards and abilities of their contemporaries. My youngest often helps them make spelling corrections during online “chat.” One friend recently greeted him with “Mary Christmas!” He still laughs about it.
I always hold them to a high standard regarding spelling and grammar; all official correspondence and school work must be corrected before it is mailed or turned in. The main reason I am strict on proper language is that the very foundation of our law is at risk if people do not have a reliable standard for understanding the meaning of what is written. The Law of Grammar gives final testimony to the original intent of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers were well trained in Latin and Grammar, choosing every word and grammatical construct in the Bill of Rights with great fastidiousness. They foresaw a future aspiring tyrant who would try to ward off impeachment by challenging the meaning of the word “is.” Bill Clinton keenly understood the symbiotic relationship between language and the law. It’s too bad that the sheeple don’t.
Santa
December 3rd, 2012
10:21 pm
So glad you posted something about spelling. I have been bugging my daughter’s teachers about her spelling for a while now. I was told they are teaching spelling different & that she should look any misspelled words up. I bought spelling books to enhance her spelling. This year her ELA teacher told me I shouldn’t worry as much since she’s not as bad as some of the other students and since they probably will use more electronic communication in the future anyway. Huh??? (What employer wants to hear that?)
Totally not satisfied with this answer so I continue to work with her at home teaching spelling rules. Once again, low expectations in the public school system. Shameful. Interestingly enough, I’ve noticed the new Common Core is teaching spelling rules again & focusing on cursive writing. Go figure!
Cynic
December 3rd, 2012
10:31 pm
Truth in Moderation – It is reassuring to see that the homeschool movement is doing exactly what it needs to – counter the brainwashing of the government system. Thank you so much for caring about your children and america to insure that they are well-educated. If only every parent cared as much.