Charter school proponents today: Do a better job shutting down bad charter schools and opening good ones
The National Association of Charter School Authorizers wants states to do a better job of both closing bad charter schools and opening better ones. The pro charter association says its own analysis revealed that between 900 and 1,300 charter schools across the country are performing in the lowest 15 percent of schools within their state.
The association, which held a press conference today in Washington, announced a new campaign to urge more diligence in shuttering underperforming charters and more focus on replacing them with stronger options.
Here is the official release from the association:
While a great many public charter schools are among their states’ best performers and are paving the way for educational innovation across the U.S., too many are failing to provide a quality education. The National Association of Charter School Authorizers (NACSA), which represents government and other entities that approve and oversee charter schools, today called on charter authorizers to be more proactive in closing failing schools and opening great ones.
NACSA issued the challenge as its new membership survey shows the closure rate for charters in renewal has doubled from year to year but is still leaving far too many schools among the lowest performers, according to state accountability data. As a result, too many children still do not have access to a quality education.
As part of the challenge, NACSA today launched its “One Million Lives” advocacy campaign, designed to provide better schools to one million children by opening more good charter schools and closing more failing charter schools.
For the first time, NACSA is urging state legislatures to adopt new laws that hold both schools and authorizers accountable for their performance. NACSA is also calling for the establishment of statewide authorizing offices because they are more likely to implement professional practices based on high standards and promote quality growth. These changes will help create more successful new schools, including replications, while facilitating the closure of hundreds of schools that are falling short.
“In some places, accountability unfortunately has been part of the charter model in name only. If charters are going to succeed in helping improve public education, accountability must go from being rhetoric to reality,” NACSA President and CEO Greg Richmond.
“Many authorizers are, in fact, getting it right – and those are the ones with the best schools, including many that are educating high numbers of at-risk students. But too many others are making decisions too influenced by politics, faulty analysis, and bad laws,” Richmond said. “Our goal is to help all authorizers raise their games to meet the challenges ahead.”
According to NACSA’s analysis, between 900 and 1300 charter schools across the country are performing in the lowest 15 percent of schools within their state. While some states may have imperfect measuring sticks, too many schools are not achieving the goals promised in their charters. The bottom line is that the large number of schools in the low rung inhibits the sector’s ability to grow in the right way over the long term so more students and families can benefit from great public schools.
If authorizers are able to close the failing charters in the U.S. and replace them with twice as many excellent ones, more than one million students will have access to a quality public education, Richmond said.
“Charter schools are not the only solution in public education, but we didn’t start the charter school movement in order to create more underperforming schools,” Richmond said.
According to NACSA’s annual survey, which focuses on the nation’s largest authorizers (those who approve and oversee at least five schools), the charter school closure rate in renewal increased from 6.2% in 2010-11 to 12.9% in 2011-12. NACSA focuses on closure rates during renewal because those decisions are most tied to academic performance. Charters that close mid-term generally do so for some emergency reason, such as poor financial management, lack of enrollment, or other non-academic causes.
“While the uptick in these types of closures is a good sign, it’s imperative for all authorizers to increase the rigor of their accountability practices so that all charters are held to the highest standards of excellence,” Richmond said.
The National Alliance of Public Charter Schools has reported a 200,000-student increase in charter school enrollment in 2011-12, bringing total charter school enrollment to more than two million students, or 13% nationally. Georgia and Washington voters this month approved ballot measures creating new, statewide authorizing bodies. Washington joins 41 other states and the District of Columbia to allow the creation of quality public charter schools.
“This is impressive growth and further proof that parents and policy makers want quality, tuition-free educational choices for children,” Richmond said. “We all have important roles to play – charter authorizers, state education agencies, school operators, reform groups, policymakers, funders and others in the charter sector and within public education – to make sure these schools are the best possible environments for children to learn and to prepare them for the future.”
By engaging authorizers and a broad coalition to close failing charter schools and open many more good ones, we can get one million more children into 3,000 high-performing schools over the next five years.
NACSA released the new data and issued the challenge at a news conference held at the National Press Club with charter school and education reform leaders from across the country, including New Jersey Education Commissioner Chris Cerf, New Orleans Recovery School District Superintendent Patrick Dobard, and Jed Wallace, President and CEO of the California Charter Schools Association.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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102 comments Add your comment
cris
November 28th, 2012
10:01 am
@Maureen – just read this op-ed from Brunswick – a non-firing breathing, asking-honest-questions about charter schools.
http://www.thebrunswicknews.com/Open_Access/editorial/
red herring
November 28th, 2012
10:14 am
am all for improvements in charter schools as well as being able to have them encourage competition for students and their minds. our state government should look at a wholesale restructuring of public school administration (size and salary of county school administrations) and reducing wasteful spending—all the trips to atlanta/savannah/jekyll for educators on the taxpayer’s dime. spend some of that money in the classrooms and give some back to the taxpayers and everyone would be better off. that is one benefit of charter and private schools as I see it–the ability to have a reasonably sized administration at that school and more control over budget for excessive education trips (mini-vacations). it could be that more classes taught via computer classes with oversight by teachers would allow for a reduction in the need for teachers as well as provide better lesson plans/etc. –i know computer teaching is being used in other states now as well as for home schooled children i am sure….
Centrist
November 28th, 2012
10:22 am
While it is impossible to disagree with this, why the continued negative highlights of Charter school issues?
It is past time to put aside the sour grapes that the amendment passed, and focus on the better prospects now allowed for students and parents. There is nothing wrong with lobbying for accountability, diligence, and oversight – but such needs to be tempered with the positive aspects of Charter schools which the voters overwhelmingly support.
Astropig
November 28th, 2012
10:27 am
I’m all for shutting down bad charter schools.That is exactly the way the system is supposed to work. Shut down the bad ones,keep the good ones. Now try doing that with non-charter schools also.Charter supporters (like myself) want real choices,not the “choice” of spending more money on failing traditional schools. If a charter is not cutting it,revoke the charter. Real reform advocates know that charter schools are run by humans-fallible,imperfect humans. Sometimes they are just not that great.But the same standard should apply to traditional schools as well.
Jarod Apperson
November 28th, 2012
11:16 am
Accountability is essential for charter schools. Though some like to talk about them as a single group, their approaches and results differ widely. On standardized tests from last year, most APS charters were well above the APS average. Here are their statewide percentile ranks for 2012 CRCT exams.
Drew: 87th Percentile
KIPP Strive: 87th Percentile
KIPP WAYS: 77th Percentile
KIPP Vision: 59th Percentile
Wesley: 46th Percentile
Neighborhood: 40th Percentile
However, two APS charter schools performed significantly worse. Students at both schools rank below the 20th percentile statewide.
Intown: 17th Percentile
Atlanta Prep: 15th Percentile
I don’t know enough about Intown and Atlanta Prep to draw conclusions about their approach and performance, but I certainly want the Atlanta BOE to be taking a close look. If we’re going to fun charter schools with public money, we have to make sure they are actually achieving the goals they set out in their charter. If not, our money may be better invested elsewhere.
Jarod Apperson
November 28th, 2012
11:17 am
I should have mentioned, these percentiles are for middle school grades (6-8). Elementary is very different at ANCS.
Long Time Teacher
November 28th, 2012
11:19 am
Maybe someday we will address the core issue. Many Georians do not value education and they do not send their child to school ready to learn.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
11:47 am
I wonder how many of those “failing” charter schools are “conversion” charters – just traditional schools wearing the name of “charter”?
Whats Good for the Goose
November 28th, 2012
11:49 am
How about doing the same for traditional public schools?
Grob Hahn
November 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
Will it be easier to get rid of a failing charter school than it has been to get rid of failing teachers an all of the other public schools?
Grobbbbbbbbbbb
DeKalbParent
November 28th, 2012
12:36 pm
@Centrist. I am also wondering why certain people seem obsessed with the success of Amendment One. Georgia will have good charters and bad, I’m sure.
How about some questions about why the bad area schools are not being shut down by the state?
Head Scratcher
November 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
It seems to me that some are missing the overall point that at the core of Charter Schools and the love affair that some seem to have with them are promises to meet performance measures and accountability that is missing from irrevocably broken public schools. And any schools that don’t keep these promises will summarily be shuttered. But it is clear from the data that that isn’t happening. There will always be some board member(s) who are susceptible to lobbyists and special interests to vote one way or another. Rather than elected board members, there are now appointed board members. But they are all the same people. All of them have an assortment of hyphens and acronymns behind their names. And a wealth of experience in knowledge in the field of education and know the best way to educate children.
The charter schools cure for what ails public schools is being sold in the same fashion that I think a snake oil salesman would peddle his miracle repellent/salve. Let’s slather this salve all over our children, toss them in snake pit and hope that it works. Because if it doesn’t work, the snake oil will extract the venom and heal the wound. We are sure about that much. Right?
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 28th, 2012
1:07 pm
Long Time Teacher,
What are we Georgians who value Education doing to persuade our fellows about its import?
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
1:44 pm
” Rather than elected board members, there are now appointed board members.”
…Then why shouldn’t we elect school superintendents also? An elected super would have to (almost by definition) serve all stakeholders. Its possible now for superintendents to keep their jobs by only making 3 people (on a school board of 5) happy. Literally everyone else in a county could be dissatisfied with a super,but if he/she kisses up to the right 3,tough beans.
Elected superintendents.Lets go back to them.
Beverly Fraud
November 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
I think we should name all charter schools after Michelle Rhee, Arne Duncan, and Beverly Hall. Students, noting their unquestioned integrity will naturally aspire to do well in schools named after these esteemed educational figures.
Head Scratcher
November 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
@Snarkysnake
I whole-heartedly agree with you on the position of superintendant. They are being treated like rock stars with ridiculous riders like: personal drivers/car services, guaranteed contracts, descretionary funds, and cabinet positions for their minions.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
It’s important to note that most charters are NOT Independent Charters. To Mountain Man’s point, dependent charters are effectively traditional schools. Dependent charters don’t select their own principals, teachers and a whole slew of other things that separate independent charters from the rest of the traditional school district.
HS Public Teacher
November 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
This is too funny! “Shut down the bad ones and open up good ones.” Couldn’t you say that about public schools?
Charter schools have no “magic power” and cannot improve education any more than public schools. The idiot voters in Georgia have once again been bamboozled. The true reason for the charter school push is solely for private companys to swoop in to Georgia and steal our education tax dollars. They are the ones that paid for the lobbyist and the politicans to push for charter schools.
Georgia – a State that follows the path to destruction.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
2:33 pm
Head Scratcher
Can you point me to anybody that has remotely said “Charter schools [will] cure what ails public schools”?
Astropig
November 28th, 2012
2:49 pm
” The idiot voters in Georgia have once again been bamboozled. ”
All you need to know about how the education looks at the people that really own the schools and employ them.
Astropig
November 28th, 2012
2:51 pm
*education = education cartel
MANGLER
November 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
Dekalb … if charter schools won’t “cure what ails public schools”, then what the hell is the point in having them?
3schoolkids
November 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
“NACSA is urging state legislatures to adopt new laws that hold both schools and authorizers accountable for their performance. NACSA is also calling for the establishment of statewide authorizing offices because they are more likely to implement professional practices based on high standards and promote quality growth.”
In other words, we want states to spend more money setting up another bureaucracy to authorize, monitor and potentially close failing charter schools, because the existing state DOE as authorizers aren’t doing the job. More bureaucracy and money thrown away. Yes, we need to close/reorganize ALL failing schools, traditional and charter. No, we don’t need more bureaucracy. Isn’t the point of Charters that they are “free” to do what works without too much regulation and that is what makes them better?
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
@ HS Public Teacher
“Georgia – a State that follows the path to destruction.”
That’s just silly.We actually treat teachers pretty well here – Simmer down and stop gnawing on the had that feeds you and read this:
http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/Georgia-teacher-salary
…Or just quit altogether and move to some utopia where the livin’ is easy.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
Interesting question – if a “traditional” school becomes a conversion charter, then is shut down as failing – do they just go back to being a regular “public” school or do they have to shut their doors?
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
“We actually treat teachers pretty well here ”
I think you meant to say “We pay teachers pretty well here”. We treat them like sh*t.
jsmith
November 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
o.k. folks its real simple. the easiest thing is to blame all the schools and teachers and the crooks that run the metro area school boards, but if you want to blame anyone just look in the mirror… its the parents of the kids. my kids have gone to publc schools and are now in Private schools… the difference is the PARENTS!!! the teachers in the public school they attended were wonderful., the facilities were fine. the difference between public and PRIVATE schools are the parents and the importance they stress on education. the parents of the private school kids are smarter , dont bitch and complain about everything, they dont blame the school and the government for all their problems and they accept responsiblities for their OWN lives. they dont drop their kids off in hair curlers and warm up pants dragging while dragging four underdressed snot nose kids behind. the fathers that pick up their children are well dressed coming from work, not like the fathers who pick their kids up from the public school( the guy in his air jordans and basketball shorts who looks like he just crawled out of bed). take a drive to westminister, lovett, or gac one day and look at the parents who pick up their kids then take a drive to some of the public schools around town , if you cant see the difference your BLIND. one more thing i am NOT rich, but what i do have i what i make i give to my children… they and their education is more important to me than any material posession will every be. privatize all education !!!
3schoolkids
November 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
“…it’s imperative for all authorizers to increase the rigor of their accountability practices so that all charters are held to the highest standards of excellence,”
This is counter to the competition argument. The “less regulation/free market competition” aspect of private schools and independent charters means only successful schools will survive. So if they are not succeeding, then why are students still enrolling?
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Mangler
State chartered schools are just another tool in the tool belt. It is by no means a cure. The idea is to improve education in Georgia. I can’t imagine there’s any one thing we can do to fix it … IMHO.
Head Scratcher
November 28th, 2012
5:00 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out!,
One of the main proponents of Amendment 1, State Senator Fran Millar, stated that charter schools would create competition with traditional public schools. And the competition brought by the new charter school would prod the existing schools to perform better. Now IMO, Senator Millar doesn’t exactly represent a district with a lot of “at risk” students to begin with.
Senator Millar believes that Charter Schools can make fourth graders who read at first grade level, if at all, to read on a fifth grade level in time for the testing which measures how students are performing. Proponents of charter schools have been saying this for years now. But the results are mixed and really don’t support any notion that Charters are superior.
cris
November 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
I find it humorous that so many are talking about “shutting down” both charters and traditional schools if they are failing or the newest education salvation buzzword “parent triggers”…what the heck do these people imagine we are going to do with the students who attend these we-need-to-shut-it-down schools? They just disappear? They’ll have to go somewhere – one imagines to the “successful” schools…so what happens then? A magical osmosis whereby those students who populated “failing” schools now suddenly, magically become successful simply because they attend a “successful” school? There are no easy answers or solutions and those who tout them should attract immediate suspicion…
East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)
November 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Why is it necessary to go through the expense of shutting a bad one down and opening a new one? We should just be able to fire the private management company that is not living up to their contractual obligations and hire another one. At least that is how I understood it is supposed to work.
cris
November 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
Enter your comments here
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
Head Scratcher
“prod the existing schools to perform better” – I would say that is an accurate characterization. “fixing all that ails education in Georgia” is a little far fetched.
Fran Millar is the Vice Chairman on the Education Committee. In that regard, he is working to improve education for all of Georgia. Hmmm. I don’t recall Senator Fran Millar saying that about fourth graders. Can you point me in that direction?
dc
November 28th, 2012
5:42 pm
of course all failing “regular public schools” are closed down……………. Oh, not?
Rod Johnson
November 28th, 2012
6:00 pm
Maureen, we get it: You hate charter schools and worship public schools, no matter how dismal GA’s are.
It’s called an Agenda and yours is obvious. Fortunately, 2 million GA voters disagree with you.
Am so glad I canceled my AJC subscription 100% due to its charter-hating slant, as evidenced by complete nonsense like Downey’s endless tirades against choice, competition, and accountability.
The people have spoken. Go make wine (or whine!) with your sour grapes.
Rod Johnson
November 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
DC, failing public schools just beg for more taxpayer money that they squander on test-score-altering teachers and loser superintendents. Somehow, Downey and the NO crowd are fine with this.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
November 28th, 2012
8:03 pm
I have never understood the “average teacher salary in Georgia is $52,000″ thing…seeing as that is about what I make with a Masters and 23 years experience. Plus, that is ALL I will ever make without a cost of living raise, since I am now maxed out on the salary scale (unless I want to go back to school and get a PhD.) Surely, that can’t be the actual “average” for a classroom teacher, unless someone somewhere is being paid a heck of a lot more than teachers in our district.
To I love teaching
November 29th, 2012
8:57 am
They calculate every certified adult in the school or working for the school system to come up with the average salary for a “teacher”. A principal making $110,000, the super making $250,000, the media specialist with a doctorate making $96,000, along with the lowly classroom teacher making $40,000. A politicians smoke -n- mirrors project to tun the public against good teachers.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
9:06 am
Thinking average pay is closer to $40k.
So… our Europeans compatriots are now comparing U. S. health care distribution system to Mexico. Maybe the school children in Mexico have eyeglasses. In Georgia, they don’t. Thanks, Europe. Thanks a lot. http://www.imss.gob.mx/english/Pages/default.aspx
KIM
November 29th, 2012
9:08 am
@redherring I am always interested at the outrage a few people spew when writingn about “on taxpayers dollars” Just curious….you have an amount of tax dollars you pay. How much service do you get for those dollars? And I am curious…why did you write Atl/Savannah/Jekyll? Why shouldn’t public servants go to a conference center that is attractive, enticing, comfortable, and nice? Do you suggest they should not gather, confer and (heaven forbid) enjoy a nice ambience? Should educators have to grind it out somewhere less desirable? What is the mentality that would have educators eek out a living, live on a pittance, confer in a shack and raise your children in all the ways you fail to? I’ve heard that “I’m a taxpayer…” one too many times. It was tempting to say to a person ringing that, “Take your dime back.”
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
9:53 am
Why is it that Georgia’s low graduate rates are always blamed on our teachers and schools?
The real blame belongs to our governors (present governor included) and our state legislature who are never asking what more can we do to improve our schools, but what more can be done to get out cheap?
The politics surrounding the passaage of the charter school amendment is a prime example (an insult to Georgia’s public education and its educational colleges, and a slap in the face to Georgia’s teachers by the governor and the Republican controlled legislature).
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
9:59 am
Hospital service fees in Hong Kong – some say their services are the best in the world. http://www.ha.org.hk/visitor/ha_visitor_index.asp?Parent_ID=10044&Content_ID=10045&Ver=HTML
Looks like they’re still using the same cost list from 2003. I guess they “decided how to do it.”
Why do U. S. services, including education, have to be this jumble of propaganda? They’re doing all this accountability on everyone and they don’t even provide the tools to do the job. The whole current U. S. education government schools management is a large scale exercise in harassment.
Teacher perspective: And what will the government being doing to us today? As opposed to for us. Seems the best way to preserve the U. S. culture of “executive compensation” is to keep the workers burned out.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
10:07 am
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lewis/does-hong-kong-have-the-w_b_299907.html
The bottom 60% of earners pay no income tax at all. The top 100,000 taxpayers pay 57% of all taxes.
Even after sixty years, the entire tax code is 200 pages long.
Hong Kong is the last place you’d think of as having a “nanny state.”
However, Hong Kong has a system of government-operated hospitals, which constitutes the majority of the health care system. People also have the option of a private hospital if they wish. There are more than fifty public hospitals, and twelve private ones.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
10:10 am
To many of us who have worked and lived overseas, the Hong Kong health care system was the ultimate social safety net that never failed to lend us a strong sense of security. It was comforting to know that if we ever fell ill, we could always return home for care.
I was rushed to hospital after a bad car accident in Hong Kong many years ago. None of the nurses or doctors asked me if I had insurance coverage, or enough money to pay the bill. They just gave me the medical care I needed. The next morning, a stern-faced hospital administrator came to visit me in the ward. I did not know what to expect until she asked me if I needed social service assistance for myself and family.
I stayed in hospital for a week and was charged only for the meals. The total bill was HK$35 [US$4], and the food was actually not bad at all.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
10:51 am
Dennis
Why is it incumbent upon the governor and state legislature to fix public education when we have highly paid executive administrations running local school districts? Don’t these executive administrations bear some responsibility here?
Aside from completely take over the school system, what laws and codes are you looking for the legislature to pass that will improve education in Georgia?
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
11:50 am
@DeKalb Inside Out; Those are fair questions.
Let me say first that my own five children graduated from Georgia public schools. All attended college, not all graduated. One with unknown learning disabillities until he got to college; one married. Two graduated, one of those “supposedly.” One just finished her PhD. Also, I taught for 33 years in Clarke County (retired in 2000) where the graduation rate is not acceptable.
However, that is not the fault of teachers and the schools (nor as some may want to chime in are administrators salaries)anyymore than it is my fault my own children did not all graduate from college.
First, I would like to see a study of dropouts and learn from them why? they dropped out. (There ought to be enough material in that for a bunch of PhDs) and what it would take to have kept them in.
For kids who are at risk, we need lower pupil-teacher ratios.
We need to concentrate on just giving them everyday basics, forget foreign languages, anything past Algebra one, advanced literature, etc. We have not done this because of the fear of having “racially identifiable” classes.
We need, seriously, to not only teach subjects, but to have more field experiences (get out of the school) where students can “see” the relevance of what they are learning applies to the “real” world. I mean, get out of the school and into the main stream of life and everyday work.
This will cost more money, but in the longer range it will pay off.
(A major problem in public education is that when we try something new, or we put more money into public education, politicians expect INSTANT results – and it simply doesn’t work that way).
I would like to see legislators talk to dropouts themselves.
I am not opposed to charter schools, per.se., but I meant every word of my last paragraph above.
And you watch and see…at the next governors election, our present governor is going to get heaps of money from those who are pushing for privitizing public education via charter schools.
He isn’t innocent in this at all.
CJae of EAV
November 29th, 2012
11:54 am
@ Snarkysnake – I appreciate the idea but honestly the administration of public education is overly politicized as is. Adding the local Superintendant to the political spectrum would IMHO only further marry the office to whims of the business elite would ultimately fund these races thus further taking us down the path that many in this blog rail against (undue influence of ALEC et al.)
@Dekalb Inside Out and @Mountain Man – To often we broaden our discussion on this topic too much and don’t focus on the particulars of our local circumstance. When you look at the ATL metro area , the vast majority (if not all in case of some districts like APS) of the charters are independent start-up charters.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
12:12 pm
Thanks, but I already am in the process of leaving Georgia and am counting down the hours. I know – some of you will say “good” and I really could care less.
However, I am a seasoned teacher in an academic subject that teaches AP classes. My students have some of the highest average scores on the AP test in the State.
I will be leaving for a State that has a real teacher union that does look after good teachers like me. I won’t be abused any more.
With the idiots in Georgia…. the voters, the politicans, etc. totally ruining edcuation in Georgia, the path for education here only leads downhill. I refuse to be a part of it any longer.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
1:07 pm
HS Public Teacher, In addition to union protections from opportunist management, I’d suggest looking for a work environment where Obama’s basketball buddy is not dictating conditions. Personally, I don’t want anything to do with hyper named “Race to the Top” with related saturation testing and using students to evaluate teachers, which I think it child abuse and I find expecting some hot headed 11 year old to evaluate their teacher and the use management resources to try and make sense of it to be a waste of resources. I don’t think you want that type of environment. Might suggest a “non-RTTT” work environment, particularly if you care about the integrity of your work and have an aversion to being a hamster on a treadmill.
Palin’s bus: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_49fuRJVCz4U/TEhc5jFWQYI/AAAAAAAAAEc/l1Cn1H1qoIk/s1600/Sarah_Palin_bus_book_tour_2009.jpg
Duncan’s RTTT bus: http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/files/2011/09/bus.jpg
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
1:10 pm
3schoolkids
said Show me ONE state in the country that has drastically improved it’s educational outcome by increasing competition through independent charter schools.
I think you have the wrong perception of what independent charter schools are supposed to do. Independent charters schools do not get together and decide they are going to improve some arbitrary statistic for the state. They are, however, intended to improve on whatever their particular local community needs. It’s command vs market.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
1:14 pm
http://www.ask.com/answers/92233401/how-much-money-is-spent-on-standardized-tests-annually
2008 Pew Center States report said that more than $1.1 billion was spent on standardized tests that year. That’s just on the tests themselves. Not on implementing the tests. Any teacher can tell you that the cost of implementation is going to be even more than that because they have to hire retired teachers and subs to help with individualized education plans for special ed and small group administration. It’s increasingly expensive. The Race to the Top grant program–which will likely be a blueprint for the re-authorization of the Elementary and Secondary Schools act (that’s the law that NCLB came from)–requires that high-school kids take “exit” tests across all subjects.
All of this money goes to a few big testing companies</b<: Harcourt Educational Measurement, CTB McGraw-Hill, Riverside Publishing (a Houghton Mifflin company), and NCS Pearson (A UK Company).
Maureen Downey
November 29th, 2012
1:23 pm
@Private: See blog posting on the report out today on spending:
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-testing-states-spending-1-7-billion-a-year-georgia-on-low-end-of-spending-scale/
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
1:27 pm
Dennis
Lower the student-teacher ratios – There aren’t many levers the legislature can pull, but that is a GREAT one. It pushes money directly into the classroom.
I like your other ideas, but none of those things can be implemented by legislation.
Lindsey announced the next push will be the parent trigger law. Numerous communities are pushing for independent school districts. I’m not sure what you mean by “privatizing public education via charter schools”, but the laws are pretty clear about private and/or religious charter schools.
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
1:30 pm
@Dekalb Insid Out; “They are, however, intended to improve on whatever their particular local community needs. It’s command vs market.”
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head defining the vieews of the private charter school corporations.
You don’t look at the kids the way public schools do – as human beings.
You look at them as $$$$ and a “market.”
And we have a governor who has sold out public education in his own state.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
1:32 pm
CJae of EAV
I, BTW, enjoy reading your comments on the various blogs. You mentioned the ATL metro area is mostly independent start-up charters. Where can I readily find that information? I sure would like to know how many charters are where and what type they are. Thanks for any help you can provide.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
1:36 pm
Maureen, Yes, highly synchronistic.
HS Public Teacher, thinking of jumping off the bus? http://patrick-aj.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/crowded-bus.jpg
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out; Seems we both just returned from lunch and these remarks are out of sync.
I mentioned the privitizing of public education via charter schools because “privitizing everything” is a Republian dream, i.e., government can’t do anything right.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
@Private Citizen – Nice picture! But no, I do not plan to quit teaching. I love my profession and am rather good at it, if I do say so myself.
After teaching for Georgia for over 10 years, I just find a huge need to find a different State to do what I love where I can be appreciated and allowed to do what I know how to do.
The fact that every single one of my regular classes score highest in the “exceeding expectations” category on the EOCT seems to mean nothing. The fact that every single one of my AP classes average over a 4.0 on the AP tests seems to mean nothing. Georgia insists that I change how I teach and in some cases what I teach. And, Georgia insists that money that would have gone into my public school classroom now goes partially into something called charter schools that has proven absolutely nothing in terms of education. And, the republicans in Georgia insist on going down the road to destroy public education.
I’ve had it – in so many ways. As I said, I am counting down the hours to get the heck out of this backwards State!
Finally, I am certain that I am not alone. If anyone thinks that I am the only teacher getting out of Georgia, they are crazy. The “brain drain” of teachers from Georgia will be another hit to education. But, I’m sure that the republicans will have an answer for that, too. LOL!
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
2:11 pm
Maybe the custodian can teach AP Calculus BC?
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
2:12 pm
Dennis
I am a firm believer of market economy theory and I believe school districts are a command economy. School districts tell the communities what they need and have no desire or requirement to listen to what communities say they need.
Independent charter schools are forced to listen to the community or else nobody will choose to go there. Who did the governor sell public education to?
Curiously, are you upset that Microsoft and Apple look at you as $$$ ? I suspect that you feel comfortable that each one is striving to provide better products so that you will choose them. The same forces can encourage education to provide a better “product”.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out -
You are the typical person that is destroying education in Georgia. In a couple of years, when the numbers come in to show that Georgia is quickly declining in education (as I predict), remember that it is because people like you that know NOTHING about education decided to dictate how to run our schools (and I mean that in the broad sense – public, private, charter, whatever).
Children are not a “product” and education is not a “factory”. I don’t give a rat’s behind whether you “believe” in market economy theory or maxism. You don’t have any experience as a teacher and you don’t have any education (degree) in the field. Why in the HECK do you think you know better? Just because you were a student you think you know????
Do you also know better how to heal patients? Do you plan to tell medical doctors what to do? Just because you were a patient you think you know????
Do you also know better how to practice law? Do you plan to tell lawyers what to do? Just because you watch LA Law you think you know????
It is entirely people like you that are ruining Georgia’s education. Keep that in mind over the next few years as the data comes to prove it as a result….
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
2:56 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out,
You said, “Independent charters schools do not get together and decide they are going to improve some arbitrary statistic for the state.”
However, isn’t that how public schools are judged?
If my tax dollars are going to be funneled into this animal you call “charter schools” then I most certainly do want statistics on them to judge how they are doing. Do you really think that tax payers will just sit back and allow our money get poured into the pockets of these companys running these charter schools with no way to measure how they are doing?
You really task me!
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
3:04 pm
DeKalb Inside Out
“I am a firm believer of market economy theory and I believe school districts are a command economy. School districts tell the communities what they need and have no desire or requirement to listen to what communities say they need.
As I mentioned above, my five kids graduated from public schools and I taught in them for 33 years. And you are wrong about educators not listening to the public.
“Independent charter schools are forced to listen to the community or else nobody will choose to go there. Who did the governor sell public education to?
He sold it to to “market economists”, private corporations and others like you, who are less interested in kids for educational purposes, but as “just another source” of making corporate money.
“Curiously, are you upset that Microsoft and Apple look at you as $$$ ? I suspect that you feel comfortable that each one is striving to provide better products so that you will choose them. The same forces can encourage education to provide a better “product”.
That’s a whole different ball game.
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
3:05 pm
@H.S. Public Teacher; This fight isn’t over. It’s just beginning.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
3:14 pm
Dekalb Inside Out, Okay. Time for a little lesson in caste systems and the rightful priorities of each, and there are four: the one on the bottom where people hold the broom and shovel, the next is business caste and their chief joy in life is making money – well and good, the next caste is governing and military, which have wholly different aims than the business caste, and finally there is the holy caste, priests and such who do spiritual work.
When the business caste usurps the government caste, skipping caste – so to speak, and exploits the role of the governing caste in order to create profit for themselves (exclusively), there will be problems because they do not have the correct priorities.
The real question is, Why is it in the USA that the business caste is so powerful and is allowed to subvert the public good and to usurp the public domain for their own profit? The real dilemma for the USA is the vacuum or absence of good public policy and public policy workers who do not subvert the public good and instead ally with the multitude of for-profit interests. This seems to be our mode in the USA and we pay a great price for this, politicizing public services (where there are any) to serve unfocused masters of profit who do not hesitate to foist a new scheme onto the public and workers as soon as the prior scheme looses some of its appeal. Hence, NCLB is replaced with RTTT. It is a tiresome and low performing situation where marketing is used to replace substance.
Dekalb Inside Out, you advocate market based solutions, but many things in forced education initiatives contain anything but traditional market solutions, sort of like contracts to Boeing. Where is this market, my friend? -At last we haven’t sold I-75 and I-20 to private owners so they can charge us tolls and we can call it efficiency.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
3:18 pm
HS Public Teacher
I understand your frustrations. Teachers are on the front lines and generally receive the brunt of all the blows from the public. While administrators are getting raises and paid doctorates teachers are getting furloughed and RIFed.
Children are not a “product” and education is not a “factory”.
I am neither a teacher nor educator, nor do I purport to be. While I agree that education is not a widget factory, the education you provide is a work product. My concerns for teachers and administrators are a distant third behind my concerns for students and taxpayers. Your job is to care for our children. Our job is not to care for you.
Do you also know better how to heal patients?
I may not be able to teach or diagnose illness, but I know one lever to make school districts and hospitals provide better work products. A doctor isn’t motivated if they are guaranteed patients and money. Put another doctor on the block and now that doctor better understand the needs of the patient.
Questions for you, HS Public Teacher
1. How would you like it if you were districted to one doctor and had no choices?
2. How would you like it if that doctor was going to get your money no matter how good or bad they were?
3. How would you like it if that doctor was going to get your money whether you saw them or not?
4. Do you think that doctor would give a “rat’s behind” about you?
The State Of Education
Schools are now run by professional bureaucrats. Monopoly and uniformity have replaced competition and diversity. Consumers of schooling have little to say. Control by producers has replaced control by consumers.
Pride and Joy
November 29th, 2012
3:18 pm
And the big 600 pound gorilla in the room is…what about the failing traditional public schools? We need to close ALL failing public schools — not just failing charter schools.
The problem is — we pour more and more money into a money pit when we try to “fix” a failing traditional public school. When ANY public school fails, we need to immediately fire every employee and start over. We need to set fire to the dead wood and get healthy living engaged life into ALL public schools.
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
3:23 pm
I might add, the issue is not over charter schools, but the establishment of a third board of education headed by the governor and his appointees and to bypass the state boards of education.
This is about “good ole boy” politics.
As it is Georgia has about “300 charter schools and 500 private schools ….” SOURCE; BlackshearTimes (Aug 21/12).
Charters; “160 during 2010-11, 217 in 2011-12; 315 in 2012.”
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
3:28 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out; “A doctor isn’t motivated if they are guaranteed patients and money. Put another doctor on the block and now that doctor better understand the needs of the patient.”
You are speaking out of turn!
You aren’t qualified to say that!
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
3:29 pm
Dennis, About the whole different ballgame of computing, it is a temporary situation. Microsoft is a thoroughly obsolete company / technology that got by for a while with profound monopoly. There were fined in excess of a billion dollars in Europe for being monopolists and the fines stuck upon review. Europe has anti-trust laws for business and enforces them. The U. S. does not. As far as Apple, they are a niche company that primarily makes professional products, not computing the general populace. The reason Apple does not apply to the general populace is that their hardware is sole provider and the consumer does not benefit from economies of scale in a market environment for hardware. Apple does great things but they are not “computing for the people.” Not unlike BMW, they make nice machines for people who can afford them. Anyway, we’re in the first 20-30 years of desktop computing? I suggest the route of the future is the software model being used for Android phones – no fee for o/s and common applications, and market environment provides hardware for $100. or so, easily replaced if you drop in the river. This is the type computing I have been doing for the past 15 years. It’s much more secure than the approaches you reference, and by the way, the file structure is far more basic. No gimmicks, solid as a brick. The whole “My Computer” and “i-life” is marketing dross from non-engineers. Computers are machines. You make them do things. You certainly don’t need “Bill” and you needn’t call upon “Steve” either. As the general said, “The invasion of Iraq was not done using Microsoft.”
By the way, no small thing that when Microsoft became obsolete and now through Android computer phones people see another way, it is no small thing that good-times monopolist Gates moved over to education as his next market for his particular approach to business. Gates is completely in our business now through the many “Gates Foundation” initiatives that are fundamental to “Race to the Top” and all of that. If I had half a wit in my head, I would stop everything I am doing and start drawing lines between Gates Foundation initiatives put into play right now and basically signed into law by your Georgia Department of Education. The job now of the state education bureaucrats is to have pen ready and sign outside initiatives and turn them into real movement and doing requirements for Georgia students and teachers.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
3:35 pm
Before you fellows start howling about competition and doctor motivation, I suggest you read about the health care system in Hong Kong. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lewis/does-hong-kong-have-the-w_b_299907.html
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
3:41 pm
Questions for you, HS Public Teacher
1. How would you like it if you were districted to one doctor and had no choices?
2. How would you like it if that doctor was going to get your money no matter how good or bad they were?
3. How would you like it if that doctor was going to get your money whether you saw them or not?
4. Do you think that doctor would give a “rat’s behind” about you?
___________
If I were king, I would make schooling 100% student voucher and they could enrole anywhere they like, Moslem, prep, Christian, Jewish Academy, trade school, public school, Art school, etc and so on. And if a student acts up somewhere, kick them the h. out and tell them to find an environment they want to be in.
But that’s not what’s happening right now, is it? The peculiar thing about the charter movement vs. public schools is that they are leaving out existent private schools which currently do not receive revenue sharing. Families should not have to pay twice for private schools to be their school of choice. That’s what I would do it. Diverse, sensible, and fair. Maybe I would start my own school under these circumstances. It could have 100 students and four staff. Content for days, time out doors and real food at lunch time.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
3:44 pm
Oops. Oh by the way, among my many hats, I too am a HS public teacher. ha
Dennis
November 29th, 2012
3:49 pm
@Private Citizen; Thanks, for that. I’m still learning “how” to use a computer. LOL.
The problems of public education are many and complicated. And I’ve never known a time, even in kindergarten, when schools were not short of money, materials, teachers….
But I do know this (and so do these private school corporations), public education is the backbone of this country.
Georgia alone spends around 13 billion each years on its public education and if you multiply that times 50 states, plus, you’re talking about THE BIG ENCHALADA that, as yet, is not controlled by Wall Street.
And I’m going to repeat it again, this governor has sold out his own states public education.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
4:00 pm
PS Give me any old piece of computing equipment and I’ll legally put fresh robust software on it and it won’t cost me a dime. No need for “Best Buy” “GeekSquad” or politicians on radio shows selling “protect” software to fix Microsoft, no need for $100. tax to the computer shop down the street to fix your Microsoft o/s that is clogged like a toilet that needs to be plunged. None of that. Robust, secure, and viri free, the way it ought to be.
By the way, my favorite story. And I can post this because I have sat down in person with the Gendarmerie.
five year period 2005-2009
Since 2004… the Gendarmerie (French nation police) has saved up to 50 million (euros) on licensing and maintenance costs as a result of the migration strategy. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/03/french-police-saves-millions-of-euros-by-adopting-ubuntu/
What’s with that monopoly cash-cow “Office?” I wonder how much Georgia governments are spending on user agreements for “Office” alone?
The French approach: Games are not our priority.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
4:01 pm
@DeKalb Inside Out,
You said, “My concerns for teachers and administrators are a distant third behind my concerns for students and taxpayers. Your job is to care for our children. Our job is not to care for you.”
I never said that I want you to care for me, did I? I never said that children are not our top priority, did I? Why are you twisting the topic and trying to put words in my mouth?
You said, “A doctor isn’t motivated if they are guaranteed patients and money.” First, how insulting you are to doctors and the medical profession. And, in fact you are totally wrong. Medical doctors are guaranteed money. They have contracts with the insurance companys that guarantee their pay per procedure, test, etc. Please do not try to make a point regarding something you know absolutely NOTHING about. You continue to do this with education and now medicine. Stop – just stop!
For the life of me I cannot understand why you and others in Georgia like you want to pretend to be some sort of expert in a given field THAT IS NOT YOUR FIELD!
You are not in education – stop trying to be an expert in it!
You are not in medicine – stop trying to be an expert in it!
People like you “voted” for this charter school thing and are “voting” for these republican politicans that are totally destroying education in Georgia. I am just very sad for the children of Georgia.
HS Public Teacher
November 29th, 2012
4:09 pm
If I had to pick out something that needs to change in Georgia education, I would pick two things…
1. “Inside” the system item: Administrators have too much authority and no oversight. There are not ‘checks and balances’ regarding administration (school board, central office, within a school) and their decisions. They easily make bad and wrong decisions based on things not in the best interest of education (ie: hiring their wife, or making purchases from their brother-in-law) and no one can call them out or stop them. We need desparately a real teacher union in Georgia to have the ‘checks and balance’ for this!
2. “Outside” the system item: In Georgia, there must be a solution to the lack of parenting. This is a widespread problem in Georgia and I honestly don’t know how to change this. Children are left to their own accord and grow up without any values or ethics – they don’t know the difference between right and wrong, they don’t know what is important in life and what is not (video games are not). This is true across socio-economic levels, religons, races, and so on.
By the way – charter schools cannot fix either of these….
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
4:16 pm
Private Citizen
Like me, I can’t imagine that rhetoric goes over very well at “the office”. Most of us are commodities or “resources” … hence forth the department “Human Resources”.
May I inquire about your education and background? Curiously, I’m wondering why your education/perception diverges so much from “HS Public Teacher”.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
4:27 pm
HS Public Teacher
said “I most certainly do want statistics on [charters] to judge how they are doing”
OK. Sure. That’d be nice. It would also be nice to know how many people my doctor has mistakenly murdered and their success rate for diagnosing various illnesses. We don’t have those stats or hardly any other stats on our doctors, yet we manage to pick one for various reasons.
I’m guessing people like/dislike schools for many reasons other than those found on stats.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
4:51 pm
HS Public Teacher
said “I never said that I want you to care for me, did I?”
Well … you did say … “After teaching in Georgia for over 10 years, I just find a huge need to find a different State to do what I love where I can be appreciated”. I would say you are demonstrably appreciated on the 1st and 15th of every month. Nothing says love like Pay To The Order Of
you are [insulting ] to doctors and the medical profession.. Awwww … C’mon … don’t be so naive. Not enough people in this world have the “pride in their work” that perhaps you project on to them.
Medical doctors are guaranteed money. Insurance companies guarantee their pay per procedure, test, etc. If a doctor goes to X-Ray somebody and they don’t do it, then they don’t get paid. If a school district goes to teach Johny to read and don’t do it, they are getting paid. In fact, at will a school district can decide they want more money and get it. Bad doctors go out of business while bad schools get more money … the incentives in education are perverse.
I’m neither a teaching expert nor a medical expert. I don’t purport to know how to do either. I do, however, understand the affects monopolies have on people.
I’m happy to discuss the merits of Amendment 1 as well as any other initiative to improve education you might be referring to.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
5:07 pm
Dennis
If the public felt their school districts were responding to their needs, then they would not have voted for independent charter schools.
The Governor sold Amendment 1 to me? I didn’t receive a check. Source of money for who? Those corporations are already making a mint off of traditional schools … that includes EMOs.
Many organizations provide many things. I don’t see why school districts providing education are outside the purview of market forces.
Snarkysnake
November 29th, 2012
8:20 pm
“I will be leaving for a State that has a real teacher union that does look after good teachers like me. I won’t be abused any more.
With the idiots in Georgia…. the voters, the politicans, etc. totally ruining edcuation in Georgia, the path for education here only leads downhill. I refuse to be a part of it any longer.”
Go. Go now. Anybody that would rather hide behind a union instead of having an ounce of ambition should leave forthwith. YOU are part of the problem.
We’re not idiots. We’re taxpayers. Tennessee borders us on the north,Alabama to the west,South Carolina to the east and a little part of North Carolina in the northeast. Avoid all of those states and drive into the Atlantic Ocean. (Also to the east)
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
11:05 pm
Snarkysnake you are an idiot and you’re arrogant. Why don’t you go tell the FAA how to run the airport. If you were not such an arrogant idiot, you would spend 5 seconds and do a web search on real data on if states with strong teacher unions have better performance in their schools. You know, like the type of web searches I’ve done 5 million times over the past year? But you want to huff and blow smoke like an idiot, which functionally you are because you spray around bigotry and are too intellectually lazy to be anything other than ignorant and can you can not distinguish facts and you certainly do not seek them, do not even realise they exist,. How a bout you go spend 10 years and $50k getting your credentials, go deliver top scores from students per specifications and then get treated like the dog catcher scrubbing the floor in the back of the tasty freeze for 5 bucks an hour, complete with a time clock. Teacher do not want unions to increase pay or to be egotistical, they want unions so they can have a consistent work environment without getting tooled around be lesser educated nitwits with mail order degrees from fake colleges, and who are telling the teachers what to do and getting paid $100k a year to play act like they’re labor management. As long as you’re yammering about Tennessee and Carolina why don’t you get off your bum and take is to north Pacific, to Canada, to Cuba, to South America, to Europe, to Scandinavia and to Asia. You’d come back less of a bumpkin if you spent some of your Camaro money on travel to the otherside of the world at least once. Travel is said to be the cure for bigotry. Go to Britain. They have a teacher union created in 1840 that has 300,000 members today. Teachers abused by managers is one problem they do not have. They’ve got order and process, not whim and the latest thing Obama’s basketball buddy said with the local $100k all climbing over each other to make the teachers do things. I’m going to tell you one difference between you and me. You have not sat through 10,000 hours of propaganda meetings in addition to your work hours, which tend to be salaried at one pay rate and about 70 hours a week. You know, sort of like a Wendy’s manager. One pay, undefined hours. Hey let’s yank you around and make you do some more stuff and call it a profession.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
11:18 pm
Dekalb Inside Out, You can inquire of my education and experience but I’m not going to tell you much except according to my own muse. I can tell you that I am university educated, have travelled some parts of the world more than once, seen much of the US, and done okay in my own endeavors which have been a few. As far as me and HS Teacher being divergent, I don’t see it. I think we have similar work experience delivering the goods and receiving not even moderate “thank you.” Doing good work and being ignored and treated in a bland manner after demanding work will lead to burn out. I think we have that in common. I admire HS teacher for the work he does, for having some personal vision and I support him all the way. I think we also have an aversion to sitting around to act as sponges for the amateur-hour maxi-propaganda getting sprayed around in Georgia right now. To be frank, I sure don’t want to listen to this stuff in the workplace and be expected to do it to kids. Maybe I was both raised and trained to think for myself. Imagine that. Imagine that!!!
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
11:31 pm
Dekalb Inside Out, I met Leonard Nimoy when I was seven. In a different locale, I had a neighbor who was the chemist who invented Dial Soap, although he was an employee of Proctor and Gamble or somesuch. He was a very nice man, trim, alcoholic. Quiet, gentle, competent. Sort of like a smart Mr. Rogers and a little sharper, more worldly. These are among those to whom I owe recognitions and gratitude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04
Lynn43
November 30th, 2012
12:02 am
I’m producing a Christmas children’s program. I have many, many children with speaking parts from 3 years old to 11 years old. Every child but one knows their parts-a 10 years old charter school student who mom says she knows her part. She can’t get past the first word. She is not giving any of the other public school children competition.
Snarkysnake
November 30th, 2012
7:53 am
”
Snarkysnake you are an idiot and you’re arrogant. Why don’t you go tell the FAA how to run the airport. If you were not such an arrogant idiot, you would spend 5 seconds and do a web search on real data on if states with strong teacher unions have better performance in their schools. You know, like the type of web searches I’ve done 5 million times over the past year? But you want to huff and blow smoke like an idiot, which functionally you are because you spray around bigotry and are too intellectually lazy to be anything other than ignorant and can you can not distinguish facts and you certainly do not seek them, do not even realise they exist,. How a bout you go spend 10 years and $50k getting your credentials, go deliver top scores from students per specifications and then get treated like the dog catcher scrubbing the floor in the back of the tasty freeze for 5 bucks an hour, complete with a time clock. Teacher do not want unions to increase pay or to be egotistical, they want unions so they can have a consistent work environment without getting tooled around be lesser educated nitwits with mail order degrees from fake colleges, and who are telling the teachers what to do and getting paid $100k a year to play act like they’re labor management. As long as you’re yammering about Tennessee and Carolina why don’t you get off your bum and take is to north Pacific, to Canada, to Cuba, to South America, to Europe, to Scandinavia and to Asia. You’d come back less of a bumpkin if you spent some of your Camaro money on travel to the otherside of the world at least once. Travel is said to be the cure for bigotry. Go to Britain. They have a teacher union created in 1840 that has 300,000 members today. Teachers abused by managers is one problem they do not have. They’ve got order and process, not whim and the latest thing Obama’s basketball buddy said with the local $100k all climbing over each other to make the teachers do things. I’m going to tell you one difference between you and me. You have not sat through 10,000 hours of propaganda meetings in addition to your work hours, which tend to be salaried at one pay rate and about 70 hours a week. You know, sort of like a Wendy’s manager. One pay, undefined hours. Hey let’s yank you around and make you do some more stuff and call it a profession.
Nobody- (NOBODY!) is making you be a teacher. If you hate it so much…Take your “credentials” out into the competitive world where you’ll be treated like the diva you so clearly are. You’ll also get first rate pay and a retirement plan to write home about. What ? Can’t do that (like I did) because you couldn’t cut it in a competitive environment and had to take a teaching position because you could get a teaching certificate with a couple of semesters of classes after you realized that you couldn’t do anything but teach? Sucks to be…Your students.
Get over yourself. (But- I do invite you into the real world,where its dog eat dog. People like me that get up early,stay up late,work a little harder and smarter will take your head off (metaphorically,of course) and send you running back to your 9 month a year job.Pleas, jump right in.The water’s warm)
Dewey Cheatham & Howe
November 30th, 2012
9:04 am
“Travel is said to be the cure for bigotry. ”
Agreed. If you would go somewhere in the third world and see what passes for schools and teachers,you would stop being a bigot and be thankful for what we have here.Maybe then you would stop blaming everybody else for the need for reform and actually listen to the critics.Your education didn’t teach you any manners,that’s for sure.
Private Citizen
November 30th, 2012
10:28 am
Snarkysnake, you talk all this trash and now your angle is “join the real world / competitive” etc. I have and done just fine, thank you. Not all teachers are government bureaucrats, Snarky. I’ve probably done more private contracting than you’ve put fishhooks in the water. You really are talking a bunch of trash and know very little of teacher work condition. A private school teacher mentoring a new government school teacher in Dallas, Texas said she was getting 5 hours of sleep a night due to all of the paperwork required and she was starting to freak out and cry every day. You really have no business sitting on the sidelines and talking trash about things you know nothing about. PS I like how your agenda is force everybody to be “dog eat dog.” Class act. With guys like you, no wonder many of kids in Georgia do not even have eyeglasses. The only thing you’re interested in is your vanity. I suggest you through you TV in the junk pile. You’re getting the arrogance from somewhere. Someone trained your mind to be a wise guy. I doubt you were born that way. Hey, I have a question for you. There’s a new market for personal jet aircraft. Which do you think is the best model? scratches head, climbs into Duramax and says, “huh?”
Private Citizen
November 30th, 2012
10:36 am
To the poster who gets their handle from “Car Talk” show, Referencing the lowest common denominator (third world) and then sanctimoniously claiming this is your design criteria reference is nothing but lefty dross, fantasy escapism. Yes, we had iron first and know how to use it. One the 100 year plan, that’s usually who wins, he who knows how to use iron. Railroads, etc.
I think the USA you know how to use marketing and are starting to get the return for your efforts. How many store discount cards do you tote in your wallet? With the vacant lefty doctrine, fitting that you should integrate NPR into your life to the point of plagiarizing their ack-ack jokes as the very name that represents you. Hey at least in “the third world” the guy standing under the tree with his chalkboard hanging from the tree limb can teach without being harassed by politicians. And I expect there is a good part of the first and third world who would agree with that observations compared with the political puppetry U. S. teachers are under.
Pride and Joy
November 30th, 2012
10:42 am
“However, I am a seasoned teacher in an academic subject that teaches AP classes.”
The quote above from a teacher in Georgia who claims to be leaving Georgia soon, is incorrect.
It should be “…WHO teacher AP classes…”
If one wants to put herself out there as a seasoned teacher, it would be more meaningful if the teacher used common, standard, everyday English correctly.
Private Citizen
November 30th, 2012
10:42 am
to clarify: the private school teacher, acting as mentor, was expressing concern, describing the conditions for the first year government school teacher.
Pride and Joy
November 30th, 2012
10:42 am
“who teaches…”
John Konop
November 30th, 2012
11:07 am
We are heading in the wrong direction with plenty of blame on all sides. We need to lower overhead and increase quality ASAP. The current one size fit all teach to the test college prep system does not work for the majority of kids. Charter schools, private schools home schools will not fix the problem on a macro.
I would suggest the following:
1) Combine public schools with 4 year colleges, JC…………and utilize facilities, faculties, administration and students more efficiently. This would lower building cost, match students with best teachers, lower administrative overhead while increasing quality, increasing work experience for students……….
Roll back the teach to the test craziness and instead focus on learning and a certificate concepts rather than high stakes testing.
2) Track students according to aptitude and eliminate or seek waivers No Child Left Behind teach to the test college prep requirements for all.
3) Create a home school/ public school option that is flexible to the students needs and can foster internship/co-op jobs starting in high school.
4) Cross utilize high schools at night for colleges, JC…….to lower overhead and create more access to training, education………
5) Create curriculum based on certificates needed for skills at all levels based on aptitude and desire of students.
6) Create one department between higher learning and k-12 to make sure all are on the same page and lower overhead.
7) Bridge a relationship between the chamber and schools to create proper requirements for curriculum for jobs, co-ops and internships.
9) Grade school districts on graduation rates, job placement and placement into higher education over mean test scores.
HS Public Teacher
November 30th, 2012
2:04 pm
Snarkysnake-
You really are an idiot, just like others have said. I am more than happy to leave Georgia! I am certified in 3 States (and no, not Alabama, South Carolina, Tenn, or even North Carolina). I am certified to teach AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC, AP Physics B, and AP Physics C. My students average above a 4 on the AP tests.
So, yes, I am very happy to leave this pitiful State and take my ability to teach with me. It will not be into the ocean as you suggest, but rather to a State where teachers are protected, appreciated, and respected. Yes, it will be a place with real union representation because they stop all of the crap that Georgia administrators dump onto the classroom teachers.
In my small department in my school, we have been “short” a teacher for a year and a half. This means that the rest of us have had to do more – with no compensation. Last week we were told that another teacher is going half-time. This means that NOW the rest of us remaining will also have to pick up their slack. You may be thinking – well, its the economy, or well, be happy you have a job. LOL! Right. During this year and a half the Principal has hired his secretarys son to sit in the front office and do nothing. He has hired his cousin to be in charge of the PE department as an administrator even though she isn’t certified and just sits there doing nothing. The few of us remaining in the department work 15+ hours a day AND weekends and we continue to fall behind. However, no one seems to care.
The only thing that I am sad about is that when I leave, I’m sure that I will not be replaced but rather give the Principal another opportunity to hire his girlfriend or the like.
HS Public Teacher
November 30th, 2012
2:29 pm
@Private Citizen,
Actually, as long as there is a union to protect classroom teachers from “opportunitic management”, I really don’t mind RTTT. No, I am not a fan of RTTT at all. I think it is ridiculous.
However, it is a far lesser evil, all things considered…. I am experienced enough to know how to ‘work around’ the total bull of RTTT!
Pride and Joy
November 30th, 2012
7:38 pm
HS Public Teacher, you say you work 15+ plus hours a day, yet, at 2:04 p.m. you are writing on a public blog. YOu are a frequent poster and you frequently post during school hours. If you really expect all the readers on this blog to take your concerns seriously, perhaps you’ll consider working during working hours and save your non-mandatory, non-required, optional blogging for the weekends when you are not on the clock.
Private Citizen
December 1st, 2012
10:04 am
HS teacher, first off like me say that I get no joy in busting down poetically and entertainingly name Snarkysnake, but these 15 hour days and working weekends and getting ground up are no joke. To Snarky, I suggest it is like being a cement contractor, you’re out there night with work lights in the freezing cold and you get the whole job done and done well and then in the sunny day the bosses stop by and don’t even acknowledge you.
Re: RTTT etc, I just know there is a quantity of propaganda meetings and for me, working in an environment with the constant testing emphasis, through the speakers, through the announcements, through the up / down, good / bad, it feels like brainwashing. I can tell you that for regular ed. kids, doing repeated formal testing with the whole “sacred” hullaboo, can not leave the room to pee, “lock down” type environment is a real buzz kill for the kids. What is really happening with this testing fetish is a dereliction of duty re: providing resource materials for teaching. It’s like the whole priority system is backwards, highly polluted. And then they want to do accountability on something that is barely rationale and you’re supposed to role play and play along. I suggest that in teaching upper level high school courses, you may be some removed from the raw goods of some of this harassment at the lower general ed. grade levels, where resource materials can be really spotty. That’s the thing that makes be uncomfortable, having to be a one-person publishing house using stuff “stolen from the web.” No one has mentioned it yet, but lower grades teachers are expected to spend their own money to subscribe to resource sites which are often a jumble of material and then figure out how to distribute this information to students. It is extremely resource consuming for the individual teacher using their own time and money just to survive and get raw materials to teach with. And there is not a single administrator anywhere who even acknowledges this, they just play “royalty” and “test fetish.” The administrators don’t even care to relate to the work the teachers are doing but want to play this 360 degree work evaluations, as they are made to do and they attend trainings to do. The school admin. are in the same position as the teachers in that they have to support all of this propaganda and busy work evaluation ritual if they want to keep their job they have to walk the walk and talk the talk. It really is a pyramid scheme turning everyone into zombies. Whoever is running the show from on-high has really figured out how to indenture the government school workers in the school house and chain them with required rituals. You say you’re savvy enough to get around RTTT requirements, but it puts you in the position of role playing something you do not believe, you have to use a portion of yourself to “front” for these requirements and then a different portion of yourself to do your job conscientiously delivering content to your students and that part is not even acknowledged by the bosses.
By the way, glad to meet you as I think we have some common ground on the “work” side of things. You’re making effort to get out. I did get out already and much glad to sit on the sidelines while they go through the RTTT implementation rituals. Also, I need to be doing gut-level work and not waste my time being a pansy for these rituals. My time is value to me and at least at present I will not be run into the ground and then denied any acknowledgement of the good work I do. I find there are ways to occupy myself presently with people who really need academic help and I can spend my time doing this directly without playing subject to the king/queen “yes sir” “yes m’am” etc. Yeah- and having to be around the admin who both evaluate me and make certain their intimates are enjoying a nice work employment and treatment while the lifer core teachers get run through the play-acting harassment machine.
Private Citizen
December 1st, 2012
10:12 am
Can you blame the building administrators? They have to do this stuff to teachers, are required to. They’re rounded up like everyone else and made to attend trainings and then go to their schools and do this stuff. In function, it is really little different from the Nazi workers who were “just doing their job.” We’ve been thoroughly indentured by outside forces. It is not optional, it is formal. The whole thing is a pyramid scheme. There is basically zero autonomy now.
Snarkysnake
December 2nd, 2012
7:26 pm
Private Citizen: You sure are bitter and full o’ hate. Maybe you should find a…Less stressful occupation.Seriously.
I can only pray that you haven’t reproduced.
MAY
December 3rd, 2012
2:34 pm
Just finished glancing over the comments and had to go back to the original post to remember what this topic was supposed to be about.
I’m glad charter schools can be closed for failure to meet their objectives but I did hear a sad report from Courtney English at one debate over amendment one (APS School Board). He said that APS was recognized as a system that has opened AND closed independent charter schools. One thing he struggled with (his words) was knowing that sometimes he voted to close a charter school even though he knew he was sending some children back to a lower performing traditional public school.
Is that right? Technically, I suppose it is….they weren’t meeting their objectives as outlined in the charter agreement. But to knowingly send those children to a school that faces no consequences for not meeting even the most basic performance objectives? It’s a hard call.