Charter school amendment debate far from over: Next up in the Georgia Legislature, redefining “public” schools.
Here is a guest column by Lee Raudonis, former executive director of the Georgia Republican Party. He also worked for Paul Coverdell in the Georgia Senate, state GOP and U.S. Peace Corps. A former private school teacher, Raudonis is now a communications consultant and writer whose clients include political candidates, public officials and the Professional Association of Georgia Educators.
By Lee Raudonis
Be forewarned: the recent referendum on Constitutional Amendment 1 related to state-approved charter schools is being viewed by its authors and key supporters as much more than an endorsement for increasing the number of charter schools and — they have promised us — improving academic achievement. They view it as an endorsement for drastically altering public education as most Americans define it.
To better understand what I mean, think about the terms “public housing,” “public hospital,” and “public school.” For most people, the term “public housing” conjures up images of low cost, government-subsidized housing for people with little or no income who cannot afford to buy or rent their own homes. Similarly, the term “public hospital” is commonly used to refer to publicly funded hospitals that primarily serve those members of society who have little or no income or private health insurance.
Unlike the previous terms, the term “public school” does not normally conjure up images of places where only “poor people” attend school. Rather, for most of our nation’s history, the term has most commonly been thought of as the place where American children of all descriptions attend school. It is the place where children from the lowest income level to some in the highest income level, and the vast majority in between, come to learn how to read, write, and calculate, as well as countless other lessons, such as how to be good citizens. It is the place that America as a whole is educated.
This is the concept of public education that many of those who pushed the charter amendment apparently wish to change. Some would very much like to see the day when most American children attend schools other than what we currently define as “public schools.” They would prefer that parents place their children either in charter schools or, even better, receive vouchers from the government and send the children to private schools of their choice. Traditional public schools (schools for children of all types) would be replaced with a new type of public school — one for those children whose parents were not motivated enough to move them into a charter or private school or for whom there were none available. In other words, public schools will come to be viewed similarly to public housing and public hospitals, as places for children whose parents, for whatever reasons, cannot find a better alternative.
The charter amendment debate is not over, because the debate was never about charter schools. It was about the nature of public education. It will reappear again and again as the “conservatives” (people who want to conserve and protect the traditional American concept of public schools) and the “neo-radicals” (those who wish to drastically change the nature of public education) debate the numerous measures that the “neo-rads” will put forth each and every legislative session in the name of “providing greater school choice” for Georgia’s parents.
The time has come for the neo-radicals to reveal their true intent for each new “school choice” initiative they bring forward. It is only fair that members of the public understand that each neo-rad measure passed takes them one step closer to their goal of redefining public education.
Clearly, there is much about public education and our public schools that needs to be changed. There is always room for improvement. The question that the neo-rads don’t want the public asking, however, is where all of the neo-rad changes, if enacted, will eventually lead. They want the public to believe that each new proposal provides just one little way to increase parental choice. They do not want the public to know that all of the proposals, taken as a whole, could lead to the creation of a new public welfare program called “public schools.” And, they undoubtedly do not want the public asking pesky questions such as how well these new neo-rad public schools will be funded when the majority of the neo-rad constituents no longer have children in the “public schools.”
In the 2013 session of the General Assembly, the neo-radicals are certain to introduce several “school choice” initiatives. The public needs to be aware that these measures, like the charter school amendment, are about much more than their stated intentions. They are about redefining the nature of public education in our state.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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117 comments Add your comment
Jim Kelly
November 28th, 2012
6:40 am
In 1999, I was present in the gallery of the United States Senate when Mr. Raudonis’ former boss, Senator Paul Coverdell, acknowledged on the floor of the Senate four Atlanta-based civil rights leaders for their critical support of the Georgia Charter Schools Act of 1998 and for the further expansion of educational freedom in Georgia. These women had made the trip to D.C. to personally express their support of Senator Coverdell’s legislation to expand school choice at the federal level. I can only imagine how saddened the late Senator Coverdell would be to see that Mr. Raudonis has rejected the Senator’s vision in favor of the status quo his present employer so assiduously protects.
mountain man
November 28th, 2012
6:45 am
Yes, Maureen, there is a fringe element that is committed to destroying public schools – but that is all that they are – a fringe. They probably account for 10% of the population. But the charter school amendment passed with 58% of the vote including a lot of Democrats and a lot of blacks. Why? Because they look at our current schools and say SOMETHING MUST BE DONE. We have made “improvements” in the system for the past 40 years and each “improvement” makes things worse. Don’t hold children back – it damages their self-esteem (but socially promoting them puts them at educational risk and holds back the rest of the students). Don’t assign homework. No grades below 50. No zeros. And above all – NO DISCIPLINE. Add into that a shift of funds from regular students to SPED students. No enforcement of attendance.
Things had tho change and the only change offerred was charter schools. Everything else just boiled down to whining about funding.
Fix the essential problems with the current schools and you will see the majority does not back destroying “public” education.
Are you serious?
November 28th, 2012
6:58 am
The reason the Amendment #1 passed was because Governor Deal and his handlers manipulated the language on the ballot. It was akin to describing a toxic waste dump as a beautiful garden.
We have problems, but the passage of Amendment #1 was because of the misrepresentation of the amendment on the ballot. If you didn’t know what the Charter School Amendment was, you would have been stupid to vote no. After all, everybody wants local input and control.
David Farrar
November 28th, 2012
7:22 am
Let’s start at the point we all seem to agree upon when it comes to a discussion of public education here in Georgia: our public schools are overcrowded and failing. If our public schools were a business, they would be closed, or like Lee Raudonis suggests above: simply abandoned if the students had anywhere else to go that offered better education at the end of the day. This last point tells us structural competition is the key to improving what has become over the years a unionized state monopoly structure.
There are many ways to achieve structural competition in a closed system. It is taken for granted, of course, this action will be fiercely opposed by the teachers’ unions. As the ‘producers of public education, their structural objective is to establish more and more control over the consumers of their product, not less. The more control producers have over their consumers, the more control they will have over salaries and performance. It’s just that simply. It’s the same way with any closed system where the consumers are forced to use the product, but aren’t allow a choice of products. Our public school system is a structural monopoly. A monopoly that isn’t designed to produce a better product for the consumers, but a product that will allow its producers to always charge more and more, while actually doing less and less.
The obvious solution (as it has been for many years) is to empower the consumers of public education: the students, and, in the case of juveniles, their parents. Yes, there will be lots of huddles placed in the way by the unionized producers’ guild. There’s the equal access issue that will have to protected. But there is nothing involved with giving the consumers of public education here in Georgia a choice of public education producers that can’t be successfully overcome by Georgia law, if the demand is there from its consumers.
ex animo
davidfarrar
South Georgia Retired Educator
November 28th, 2012
7:32 am
Mr. Raudonis is right. From the mouths of legislators over the past few years, we have heard a desire to legislate school vouchers and more school choice. The approval of Amendment 1 opened the door for these folks. No doubt there will be a variety of bills introduced to expand this concept, with the aim of doing away with public schools as we know them. Legislators who really care about the institution of public education had better wake up and realize that allowing this to happen will be the worst possible way to change public education, taking us back to a time long ago when private schools became the alternative to integration. The Governor and other leaders don’t seem to understand nor care about what is about to happen—in fact, they support it. Now it’s up to public education leaders, parents, professional organizations, and other political leaders to speak out and defend the institution that educated the great, great majority of Georgians. Don’t allow a small group of “neo-rads” to have their way; public education is not the bad guy in this picture—it’s the victim of those who want to grab control of our most valuable public institution.
disappointed
November 28th, 2012
7:34 am
@mountain man, I’d venture to argue with you that it isn’t just a fringe group–at least not when it comes to our politicians. Charter schools are NOT the only choice parents have/had. They exist and were going to continue to exist whether amendment one passed or not; however, we’ve now given an un-elected body the authority to generate new schools with no clear or transparent oversight to use public funds from wherever our legislator sees fit. What you described, the ‘improvements’ that haven’t worked, well I hate to burst your bubble, but that amendment was just another one of those ‘improvements’ you described. Public education will never benefit from political posturing or policy. Rather, we can only improve our schools through better teacher training and preparation, which starts in the university classrooms that need reform by the way, and improving our administrations. Charter schools are good; no argument there from me; however, we are foolish to believe a new governing body generating new schools and siphoning funding in new directions will help ALL our students. Isn’t that the goal? To help ALL students.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
7:39 am
“Isn’t that the goal? To help ALL students.”
NO. The charter school amendment was never intended as a cure-all. It was a CHOICE issue – it gave parents who were dissatisfied a CHOICE of another option. The vast majority of parents would never use a charter school, eeither because their local school was performing well or because they just don’t care.
The ONLY way that charter schools could make things better for ALL students is if the competition forces our traditional schools to rethink and address their basic problem issues – that would be a general advantage to having charter schools.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
7:42 am
“Isn’t that the goal? To help ALL students.”
Students and parents who don’t CARE about education do not deserve our help. There is no help for them. You are just wasting our money trying. You can lead a horse to water…
10:10 am
November 28th, 2012
7:49 am
Sadly, Raudonis neatly self-identifies in his piece as the true extremist—who chooses to regard all who would introduce real competition or parental choice as “neo-radicals.”
I’m saddened to see my old association, PAGE, paying for advice from such a Cold Warrior.
Ronin
November 28th, 2012
7:49 am
Interesting analysis by Mr. Raudonis. However, for the reasons that mountain man posted at 6:45, I believe that the author is seeing the glass as half empty, when it’s actually half full.
58% of the voters said it’s time for meaningful change. When you factor in that almost all district school employees, probably around 10-12% of the total ballots, you’re looking at a figure of approximately 70% of voters whose paycheck is not associated with maintaining the current education model.
Government needs skilled workers to maintain a growing/healthy economy. As far as people being educated at “government” schools or via a voucher program, it really doesn’t make any difference. What is important is more parental involvement and less government regulations. Establish a vocational career program starting in 8th grade and offer other choices to students and parents.
As far as segregation in schools, yes, it may happen. However it may be as simple as grouping the mathematicians on one career path while allowing the plumbers to learn their vocation/profession. Teaching to the middle is not the answer.
dc
November 28th, 2012
7:59 am
and we should shut down Fedex and UPS so the USPS doesn’t have competition either. What an idiotic article. The only way to drive meaningful change is through competition. The past 30 years of “change from within” (and doubling of per pupil funding) have accomplished exactly…..nothing.
Thank goodness I live in a state where the majority of folks are less concerned with protecting the educrat “status quo” and more focused on providing an effective learning environment for the individual student.
Astropig
November 28th, 2012
8:00 am
Look, the education monopoly isn’t going to clean its own house.The school board politburo establishment offered nothing but scare tactics and fear in response to the charter schools amendment.(They even trotted out a race hustler to try to gin up the votes of the worst victims of bad schools). The truth is,people don’t really know what they want,but they really don’t like what they’ve got. I didn’t see or speak with ANYONE during the charter schools campaign that called it a magic bullet…Except the education monopoly. They used (and are using) that characterization to set the stage for a campaign to discredit it and call it a failure after a very short time. It’s a tool in a toolkit,nothing more. Teachers that are honest with themselves know that improvement is a process,not an event. It will take time for these incremental reforms to work.
Politicians may be slimy and duplicitous,but they can count. They could read the (approx) 60/40 win for the amendment as a mandate to stop listening to the education monopoly and go in another direction. They now know that parent trigger is doable politically ,as well as other needed reforms.The monopoly will defend everything to the last ditch and will suffer a few tactical wins but a strategic defeat.They are too inflexible and hidebound to see that.
cris
November 28th, 2012
8:02 am
you can’t legislate parent involvment…nor can you ignore those children whose parents don’t care. But you can politicize the issue and place blame…and continue to get the same results. I’m honest enough to say I don’t know the solution to the problems of public education, but I can say that this scenario isn’t the solution either….
Eddie Hall
November 28th, 2012
8:13 am
First of all. gett off the 58% high horse. The way that pig in a poke was worded, no way it was going to fail. All you supporters can thump your chest and be happy, but this was always and will always be, about money. Let’s see if any “real” change comes down for those systems that would vote FOR this, and yet continue to elect bad BOE’s. As I have said all along, change was needed, this was not it, The governor and this legislature are certainly not guardians of the people, more like the “pocketbook”.( and i mean theirs and their big money supporters!)
Lynn43
November 28th, 2012
8:22 am
From what I am hearing, now that the election is over, most people had no idea what they were voting for because of the deceptive language of the ballot. Had the ballot question actually been truthful and outlined exactly what the Amendment was to accomplish, it would not have passed. But this was what the supporters planned. “Deceive the voters and get what we want”.
williebkind
November 28th, 2012
8:24 am
“Public education will never benefit from political posturing or policy”
That is exactly why I prefer charter schools. Schools lost prayer before classes, lost prayer at ball games, cannot wear particular clothing, and ect… I will never trust public education again. They have lost founding father values and tradtions and opted for vile disgusting alternatives. Take government control out of public education! Just send the taxpayers money back to the community and let the community do its job.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
8:32 am
All of you people that are trying to diminish the 58% number can save your strength. What you are really trying to say is that the voting public is stupid because they didn’t buy into the boogerman stories that you tried to peddle during the campaign.If the vote had gone the other way,you would have been using the numbers to browbeat legislators and say that the people have spoken.Want some cheese with that whine?
William Casey
November 28th, 2012
8:35 am
@EDDIE HALL: You are absolutely right about the 58%. The wording made the amendment “fail proof.” Several of my educated and concerned non-educator friends were going to vote “yes” until I explained that these “charter schools” were going to be governed by a board appointed by the Governor. That single bit of information changed about 12 votes to “NO.” Too bad I didn’t have $250,000 in out-of-state money to get the word out.
indigo
November 28th, 2012
8:36 am
“the time has come for the neo-radicals to reveal their true intent”
Unfortunately, we already know the “true-intent” of Georgia Tea Party Republicans. They want a Georgia filled with Christian fundamentalist school boards who will insure schools teach creationism, a 6,000 year old Earth, the absolute truth of The New Testament and the evils of science.
William Casey
November 28th, 2012
8:37 am
Hey Snarky, let ME do the wording and I can make Hell sound like a condo on the beach.
BehindEnemyLines
November 28th, 2012
8:48 am
Talk about trying to close the barn door after the horse is out, my goodness, how clueless IS Raudonis?
Public schools in Georgia are _already_ viewed as on par with public housing, with the exception that “cannot find a better alternative” should read “cannot find, or are unwilling to make the sacrifices needed for, better alternatives”.
williebkind
November 28th, 2012
8:50 am
indigo
November 28th, 2012
8:36 am
Your atheism is prominent! Christains believe in science. Didnt you get the memo?
robert thomson
November 28th, 2012
9:01 am
The bottom line is this; Public Schools, Charter Schools, Private Schools, whatever, many students achievement level will not change simply because we havent changed many of the other variables, poverty, familial problems, truancy, drugs, parental involvement. When are we going to stop blaming schools for the problems of public schools and look at some of the real issues here??? This is ridiculous. The “know it alls” that have never stepped foot in a public school since they attended themselves have no idea. Most teachers are extremely hard working, motivated professionals. To continue to blame teachers and the public schools is just plain stupid. I teach in a public school in GA, and we are in the top 5% of the state in graduation rates and test scores. WHY??? Demographics, thats why! I have a friend who teaches in the same subject area in a different school, is a fine teacher, i would argue he’s better than me in many ways, and their graduation rate is literally less than two thirds of ours. WHY??? Demographics, among other things!! STOP STOP STOP STOP blaming schools and teachers….If you keep blaming teachers, you are going to ruin the profession. I already know many teachers who are leaving because of this… DOnt think there are thousands of way better teachers waiting in the wings to take our job, because there are not.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
9:07 am
“Hey Snarky, let ME do the wording and I can make Hell sound like a condo on the beach.”
And I can make public schools in their current form look successful…
I was ambivalent about the amendment until a friend referred me to the documentary “The Cartel”. It’s a couple of years old,but it really opened my eyes. I watched and paid special attention to the segment on charter schools. I was so fired up that I brought three members of my own family and one in another to the polls to vote for amendment one.The more that I learned,the more that I agreed that the current system is broken and cannot be fixed by the people that broke it.
The “Eureka”! moment was when the spending per classroom was broken down.There are districts in the film that spend over $400,000 per classroom, pay the teacher $60K AND DEMAND MORE MONEY. (The numbers in Georgia are surely different, but the proportions are likely the same)
If you’re defending that system,you must be a (well compensated) part of it.
He pulled the wool over our eyes...again
November 28th, 2012
9:08 am
Lynn43 hit the nail on the head – it’s just another Nathan Deal money-grab for his corporate cronies and buddies – they want access to the billion dollar public school budget and they want to control who does and who doesn’t get charter schools – they tried the same thing with the TSPLOST but when it got defeated they knew they had to use a different strategy with the charter school amendment – the new strategy was DECEPTION – Deal wanted his hand-picked, unelected cronies to have al the decision making power and the public school’s money and he was able to trick Georgian’s into giving him both – y’all better wise up
Dewey Cheatham & Howe
November 28th, 2012
9:16 am
Hey Snarky, let ME do the wording and I can make Hell sound like a condo on the beach.
So…You’re saying that you would write a deceptive amendment question to serve your own ends ?
CJae of EAV
November 28th, 2012
9:22 am
@Are you serious? – Despite the hue and cry over the ballot language, I don’t believe the general “voting population” was confused at all about the amendment and what was at stake. Its passage as suggested by @mountain man is indicative of the exasperation people feel over decades of subpar public schools and the desire they have some form of progressive change.
@disappointed – no clear or transparent oversight hardly describes the manner in which most of the larger local districts in GA operate in relationship to the public they serve. It amazing how much is spoken to the alledged lack of accountability for state level authortization/funding of charter schools, when a large % of local districts have a horrid track record in this regard, yet we have long line of local board reps who have spent decades holding down seat and superintendants racking in hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries & bonuses with no end in sight. Let’s get real here, if it were about accountability, we wouldn’t have half of what exists today.
Centrist
November 28th, 2012
9:29 am
Despite the headline of this blog, the debate is over and Charter schools are now a part of our public education. The shrill communications consultant letter is just purposeful noise which will be properly ignored by those who implement Charter school policies – but is simply meant to be more fodder for those who were on the losing side of amendment vote.
Amazed
November 28th, 2012
9:33 am
Many of the 58% were manipulated into a yes vote. Read the ballot question. I have talked with many folks who said how cold you say no to something that sounded so positive for education? After explaining the “real outcome” voters remorse set-in. This constitutional amendment was/is a fraud. It is about access to public funds for-for profit companies. Next step?
To hell in a handbasket
November 28th, 2012
9:40 am
If you live in DeKalb County, as I do, and you did not .t understand the wording, you are an idiot.
Astropig
November 28th, 2012
9:51 am
“Many of the 58% were manipulated into a yes vote. Read the ballot question. I have talked with many folks who said how cold you say no to something that sounded so positive for education?”
…Do you mean manipulated like local school board elections and ESPLOST ballots where the outcome is usually determined by the overwhelming number of voters who are employed by the school system? (In my county and many others,the largest employer is the school system).
You mean manipulated that way?
Batgirl
November 28th, 2012
10:02 am
I hope all you people who are so supportive of for-profit charters and vouchers for private schools and so anti-public school are around in 25-30 years to see what you have wrought. I suspect you will be wishing for the good old days of 2012.
Mr. Raudonis, William Casey and robert thomson, you are all spot on.
William Casey
November 28th, 2012
10:03 am
@DEWEY: Yes, I can write manipulative sentences. The difference is, I DON’T.
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
10:11 am
The amendment passed and is now law. I’ve been around Georgia’s schools too long to believe that it will be used to benefit anyone but the wealthy lobbyists who funneled money into getting it passed, but who cares? I will just get up every day, come to work, and do my job just as I have for years. I teach in a high school with a 98% graduation rate, so I expect to be targeted in some way since successful traditional public schools can’t be allowed to outperform charter schools. I just hope I can make it through this recession in my current job before it is eliminated.
William Casey
November 28th, 2012
10:13 am
HEY SNARKEY: Anyone who knows me (I use my real name) knows that I’ve been a critic of public schools for my entire 31 years as an educator. Nevertheless, I remain a supporter of the concept. This BS Amendment won’t help.
disappointed
November 28th, 2012
10:15 am
@williebkind so you honestly believe that public charter schools will be allowed to have prayer in the classroom again? These schools have the ability to develop a charter that adopts prayer as part of their school; however, you will be hard pressed to find a group that will get a charter passed with that agenda. And to blame public schools for the lack of prayer in our schools is ludicrous! That has everything to do with governing bodies, not the school systems themselves. I just don’t understand your logic here. And again, the issue aren’t charter schools. Charter schools are not the enemy. The amendment wasn’t needed.
@mountain man, I’m sorry but it’s a false assumption that more charter schools will generate competition for schools to improve, and quite frankly I’m appalled that you believe that students should be denied a better education simply because they have uncaring parents! Public schools don’t and cannot work as the free market does. In capitalism there has to be a winner and there has to be losers, and public education in America was not founded on the principle to educate the few and privileged. If you want to become more like China or even other European countries, than fine I suppose, but be aware that they actively filter out students who they believe don’t have the mental and financial resources to perform at a university level; therefore, they are excluded from what we as a country have always taken pride in, which is the American Dream. That you can come from humble beginnings and overcome circumstances you’re born into is unique in this world, and I firmly believe as soon as we try to turn our schools into capitalist ventures we will only elevate those who already have and continue to push down those who do not. The amendment will not change the quality of schools in our state.
Brasstown
November 28th, 2012
10:20 am
A majority of the citizens of our country aren’t buying the storyline anymore being pushed by big business. Unfortunately, Georgians are once again being manipulated. “It’s states rights; not slavery!” “We can’t compete because of unions!” “We can’t harvest our crops without illegal labor!” “High taxes are keeping businesses out of Georgia!” and now “It’s about giving parents choice!” The trend is changing here as it is in VA and NC, but not before we destroy public education. Twenty years from now, it’s going to be a big mess to clean up.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
10:37 am
“HEY SNARKEY: Anyone who knows me (I use my real name) knows that I’ve been a critic of public schools for my entire 31 years as an educator. Nevertheless, I remain a supporter of the concept. This BS Amendment won’t help.”
Okay. Then instead of telling us what WON’T work, please do what the NO on Amendment 1 people didn’t do and tell us what will. They ordered us to go to the polls and vote no (and we didn’t comply) without offering us an alternative. You have the floor.
concerned
November 28th, 2012
10:37 am
@Mountain Man – Your statements, “Don’t hold children back – it damages their self-esteem (but socially promoting them puts them at educational risk and holds back the rest of the students). Don’t assign homework. No grades below 50. No zeros. And above all – NO DISCIPLINE.” This is not the doing of teachers but of PARENTS! Parents have forced administration and teachers to coddle their children because their children are precious and are never at fault. Read Teaching with Poverty in Mind by Eric Jensen and A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne, Ph.D. to see what many schools and teacher face on a daily basis. Teachers can’t change the system. Don’t be so blind to what is taking place in Charter Schools today. The students aren’t getting a better education and I bet the teachers face the same issues you mentioned. Until parents educate their children at home first edcuation will never get better.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
10:45 am
two mixed observations
-that we have issues to resolve is not up for debate. its fact. only red meat Fran’s robots will deny educators have been yelling long and loud about problems within the system. but for some reason people either ignore it, or call us whiners, parasites, ect. perhaps the greatest example of how badly we’ve failed is that the public was unable to distinguish fact from propaganda.
or choose to ignore them.
-it funny to me how (based on voting stats, which are by nature subject to question) the same people who voted against Obama/democrats due to big government concerns are the ones who voted A-1 into place. I disagree with big government, except when it suits me.
Heika
November 28th, 2012
10:45 am
A faceless anonymous Internet poster’s opinion.
Looking for the truth
November 28th, 2012
10:46 am
Concerned – amen! Parents do not want their kids educated. They want them in gifted classes because their neighbors’ kids are there. If they don’t qualify for gifted, then they want them to get A’s and B’s. We say we want our kids ready for college, but when the rubber hits the road, then “it’s too hard’ or “too much work” becomes the rallying cry!
Parents decide what you want – then act accordingly.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
10:47 am
@Snarky
feel free to browse the GS archives. or visit MACE. its all there for you.
but it requires an open mind.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
10:49 am
@ looking,
there have been more than a few threads here decrying our success rate, then decrying how much we make students work.
Warrior Woman
November 28th, 2012
10:58 am
How much of Mr. Raudonis’ position is due to his vested interest in the education status quo? He is not an unbiased source, by any means.
RCB
November 28th, 2012
10:59 am
You can add amendments, change the laws, throw $$ around and blame teachers all you want, but it’s the PARENTS who determine their child’s outcomes. You cannot legislate good parenting.
Lee Raudonis
November 28th, 2012
11:14 am
Just for the record, I support school choice, including private schools and charter schools—as long as the state government provides sufficient funding for public schools. What is sufficient funding? I think most educators would be happy if the state supported public schools at the level that the state has determined is required, which would be full-funding of the Quality Basic Education Act or some similar formula. I agree that competition is a good thing, but the competition has to be fair. If public schools are properly funded (based on the state’s own formula), I am convinced that most will compete very well with private and charter schools. However, if the state continues to reduce public school funding (as it has for nearly a decade) while increasing the number of competitors that do not play by the same rules (transportation, testing, etc.), it obviously puts public schools at a disadvantage.
Some bloggers have suggested that very few legislators want to change the nature of public education. I hope this is true. It shouldn’t be difficult to determine who is right. If the General Assembly continues to underfund the public schools, while simultaneously increasing the number and types of options to public schools, I fear that my theory might be correct. On the other hand, if the General Assembly begins to reinstate the austerity cuts of the past decade and steadily increases funding to meet the state’s formula, I will be more than happy to admit that I was wrong. The question isn’t whether there should be competition in education, it is whether the public schools will be allowed to compete fairly.
Senator Fran Millar
November 28th, 2012
11:20 am
Maureen, this column is ridiculous. There is no movement afoot to redefine public education except to try to increase academic performance. This is why we now have college and/or career readiness options. This is why we are putting more and more $$ into technology vs bureaucratic overhead to try to help more students.With a 67% graduation rate from high school and 56% graduation rate from college after SIX years, does this gentleman not think we might try to do something different?
catlady
November 28th, 2012
11:20 am
Mountain man: Your list of things at 6:45 is good, except in practice, parents don’t accept that THEIR child needs to have the same consequences. THEIR child’s situation is DIFFERENT. Then the excuse making starts. It is always THOSE OTHER CHILDREN who should get the Fs, be held back, etc. Everyone’s child is a special snowflake, delicate and unique, and those rules DO NOT apply to that special child!
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
11:30 am
“feel free to browse the GS archives. or visit MACE. its all there for you.
but it requires an open mind.”
No. That’s not what I asked for. I don’t want to read the GS archives. I want the guy that’s telling me that nearly 60% of the voters who voted yes had a better alternative available to them and did not take it. No weasel words, no GAE handout talking points-A real alternative that would improve the public schools that doesn’t involve20th (and 19th) century solutions to 21st century problems. Stop being intellectually lazy and answer the question.
Open mind = agreeing with your opponents. Example: Hirohito had an open mind after Nagasaki.
Brasstown
November 28th, 2012
11:34 am
@Snark ,
I’ll bite.
Increase mental health and health services in schools by an astronomical amount
Increase vocational programs in schools by an astronomical amount
Seperate atheletics from schools
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
11:40 am
“quite frankly I’m appalled that you believe that students should be denied a better education simply because they have uncaring parents!”
I didn’t say that school districts should “deny” students an education because their parents are uncaring, I just said that uncaring parents results in less education. If you apply the model that I constantly blog about, there is no difference – actually the uncaring parents BENEFIT from the enforcement of attendance of their students. What I said is that the education system cannot change poverty, cannot change SES standing, cannot change parental apathy, and should not try – it is not in their scope of work. What they should do is enforce reasonable policies that benefit ALL STUDENTS.
and Catlady @ 11:20 am – thanks, you are certainly correct and “helicopter” parents are one big reason we have worse education now than in the 60’s. My sister was a teacher, and the moment she hit retirement age, she FLED – mainly due to parents of “precious snowflakes”.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
11:44 am
“Increase mental health and health services in schools by an astronomical amount”
Brasstown – WHy should the EDUCATIONAL system be involved with the mental health and healthcare systems? Next you will tell me that it is the school’s responsibility to cure the poverty of the area families.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
11:47 am
“Increase mental health and health services in schools by an astronomical amount
Increase vocational programs in schools by an astronomical amount”
Okay- I’ll pay higher taxes if you freeze your salary (real shared sacrifice) to fund your solution.
Deal?
(Eliminating athletics is stupid. Some of the best students participate in athletics and band.Punishing them so that we can create more assistant vice principals is the epitome of selfish. “Every child is important”,my eye)
Rod Johnson
November 28th, 2012
11:48 am
The 58% knew exactly what they were voting for: Freedom from the complete failure and lack of ideas (nor interest in improvement) of the 42%.
The 42% has no interest in educational improvement – only in increasing educational spending, insisting on no accountability and no competition. They sought to fiercely protect a failed status quo and our embarrassing dead-last-place national ed. ranking.
The attitudes of the 42% are exactly why nonsense like APS occurred in the first place. GA voters were well aware of what they were voting for and who they were voting against. It’s why A1 passed with landslide, mandate #s from both Ds and Rs.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
12:05 pm
Mr Raudonis
You neglected to name one person or provide a shred of evidence to accompany your post. Allow me …
http://www.nancyjester.com/georgiaspendingperstudent.aspx
Education Funding in Georgia as reported to the US DOE
History of spending on education in Georgia – School districts are getting their money. Spending on education per student has gone up and up and up over the last 16 years with NO return on the additional investment. We are spending more now than we ever have.
I don’t think more money is the answer.
However, if the state continues to reduce public school funding
State funding has gone up and down. It went up 5% from 2010 to 2011. Federal funding has gradually gone up from 4% to 11% over the last 16 years. School districts are getting their money.
Q.B.E. Funding
The state has never equated a fully funded Q.B.E to sufficient funding. QBE has never been fully funded.
competition has to be fair – State chartered schools will only receive 62% of the funding traditional public schools receive. Perhaps that should be raised to 100%. Note state chartered schools are subject to the same austerity cuts as school districts.
Isolated Pockets of Excellence
November 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
So, these “neo-rads” are secretly plotting to convert the public school system into a bare bones welfare program that serves only the poorest, most ignorant, and least motivated. Could be, could be. And yet, they aren’t doing it on their own. They’ve had lots and lots of help.
APS has a handful of traditional public schools that some middle class families currently choose to attend, but for how long? How much longer are middle class families going to choose schools in which they have to worry about their kids’ safety, with overcrowded classes in which overworked teachers aim instruction at pushing up the standardized test scores of the lowest performing students? (Paraphrasing what someone else said on this blog today, APS schools are “already viewed as on par with public housing”.)
And then, after years of CRCT cheating scandal, accreditation anxiety, traumatic redistricting process, the families at NAHS are told that their years of hard work, and their opinions about the education of their children DO NOT MATTER to APS. That they must leave these decisions completely in the hands of the experts at APS … or, if they don’t like it, they can pay the “private school tax”, as Kasim Reed calls it. So are these families now nodding their heads at what was, in retrospect, the sage APS decision to tear up their “underperforming” school? I doubt it.
Here’s a post from an NAHS parent on Get Schooled Nov. 26:
“My 10th grader’s chemistry teacher went on maternity leave over a month ago, and according to my child, she has learned NOTHING in this class since then. No class instruction has occurred…seems the substitute teachers are more like babysitters while the “real” teacher is on leave. My child has not had a single grade recorded in this class (confirmed on the parent website) since mid October. Calls to both the new school principal as well as the interim “mentor” principal have gone unreturned.”
Does this sound like a school you’d put your child in, if you had another choice? Whether that choice was putting your kid in private school or a charter school, voting for vouchers, or voting for lower taxes (and decreased funding of the remaining “public” schools) so that you could now afford tuition at a decent private school?
If the “neo-rads” are luring the middle class out of the public schools (and out of their habit of funding public schools), some public school systems are just as adamant about pushing the middle class out.
And I expect most of this is no less true for the responsible, motivated parents who are not “middle class” but who value education.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
@ snarky
sorry, I’m not going to spend hours regurgitating information you can get for yourself.
if you really want to hear our thoughts, this blog archives are loaded with them.
but you gotta research your term paper yourself
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
@ Sen Fran
you really want to stand on that comment?
DeKalb Inside Out
November 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Disappointed
Said:In capitalism there has to be a winner and there has to be losers
Don’t you think bad schools should close down … chartered as well as traditional schools?
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
@ mountain
re: mental health
I’m in agreement. that’s not something we need to be in, barring very rare, very dramatic circumstances.
re: healthcare does have a worthwhile place, mostly in the place of school nurses and basic clinic stock. kids being kids get hurt, and get sick all the time. handling minor issues fixed up and get the kids back in class. bigger issues the RN can stabilize until the responsible adult gets there.
otherwise….
caveat: if we ever adopt the charter I keep suggesting for special needs kids, that should have a major clinic with at least two nurses with ER experience on staff
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
“sorry, I’m not going to spend hours regurgitating information you can get for yourself.
if you really want to hear our thoughts, this blog archives are loaded with them.
but you gotta research your term paper yourself”
Translation: GIVE US MORE MONEY AND SHUT UP!
“My way or the highway”
Exactly the attitude that we voted against 60-40.
Thanks for playing.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
12:42 pm
@ snarky
are you unable to do basic research, or just unwilling?
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
I’m curious: how many of the charter supporters here want Snarky as part of your educational community? and why?
living in an outdated ed system
November 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
Unfortunately, this is yet another attempt to scare the electorate with nonsense. Public charter schools exist because the quality of traditional public school education is abysmal. Lets not get carried away here. The state commission is not going to create hundreds of charter schools – but they will bring quality learning environments to our state, which hopefully traditional public schools will learn from and integrate best practices. There are SO MANY things our state needs to do to reform its education system: teacher acquisition/retention/training/evaluation, digital learning, funding effectiveness, etc. Public charter schools are just one tool that should act as a catalyst to spur innovation in public education.
But don’t believe Mr. Raudonis for one minute! Change takes time, and this newly formed commission will work methodically, create common performance criteria, and approve only those applications that will truly add value in local communities. But Georgia is headed in the right direction, and maybe these reforms will force the traditional public schools to get their act together. Instead, Mr. Barge continues to be in denial, and is claiming that other states are inflating their graduation rates! Focus on your own state, Mr. Barge – the data doesn’t lie!
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
“are you unable to do basic research, or just unwilling?”
Just answer a basic question. What is the education monopoly’s alternative to what we voted for on November 6? It’s not a hard question. It’s actually an opening for you to put forth a positive vision for education and win hearts and minds. Why the hostility?
C’mon Boot. Walk the walk.
Dewey Cheatham & Howe
November 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
@Bootney Farnsworth
I think that it is a legit question that Snarkysnak is asking. We never heard anything but “Vote No” on amendment one…But nobody explained why “no” was a smarter vote than yes. It seems that the backers of the amendment explained it better than the detractors.
AlreadySheared
November 28th, 2012
1:52 pm
“They would prefer that parents place their children either in charter schools or, even better, receive vouchers from the government and send the children to private schools of their choice”
You’re darn tootin!! Let the dollars follow the kids, as decided by their parents as to where.
Imagine two restaurants standing side-by-side. Restaurant A is free to all comers. Restaurant B charges $25 for a meal. If A is half-empty and B has a 45 minute wait for dinner, what could one possibly infer about the quality of the meals served in each?
Prof
November 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
@ Snarkysnake, 12:56 pm: “Just answer a basic question. What is the education monopoly’s alternative to what we voted for on November 6?”
I don’t think I’m part of any such “education monopoly,” but I’ll take a stab at answering. I’m sure that others can supplement what I suggest. I voted NO to creating the separate state commission board to approve new charter schools as specified by the amendment. I did NOT vote NO to charter schools generally. I would certainly have liked an alternative amendment setting up such a state commission board that:
had a mixture of appointed AND elected officials as the board members, with the majority elected officials;
had an accountability mechanism for evaluating the approved charter schools after a year by means of external auditors;
provided funding sources for the state commission board’s bureaucracy and offices that were independent from public education funding.
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
As I said in an earlier post, I teach in a traditional public high school with a 98% graduation rate. I don’t think that is too bad, but it could improve. I don’t see the need for charter schools. I also doubt that a public charter school could improve upon that percentage. That’s why I voted against a totally unnecessary amendment. Having said that, I also can’t imagine where the statistics about public education in Georgia come from. If we are graduating 98% of our kids in this school, that means that somebody else must only be graduating about 30% of theirs. That school and any school (public, private, charter, or whatever) that doesn’t graduate at least 4/5 of its students should be closed immediately!
AlreadySheared
November 28th, 2012
2:52 pm
@Just A Teacher,
See one of the other blogs on this site – GA graduation rate is 67%. You just basically shut down almost all the public schools in Georgia.
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
@Sheared . . . Like I said, I don’t understand where these statistics come from.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:01 pm
“That school and any school (public, private, charter, or whatever) that doesn’t graduate at least 4/5 of its students should be closed immediately!”
You DO know that whether a student graduates or not is totally up to the STUDENT, right? NOTHING the teachers (or the administration) can do will make a student learn if the student does not WANT to learn. You can lead a horse to education, but…
What is MORE important is how much the ones who DO graduate have learned. Let the losers drop out. But a high school diploma should mean something other than I spend a certain number of days in a building. BRING BACK THE GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION TEST!!!
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
“I teach in a traditional public high school with a 98% graduation rate.”
Is that 98% in FOUR YEARS?
Jerry Eads
November 28th, 2012
3:04 pm
My own read of all the data harkens to Raudonis’ take: The proponents of the amendment could care less about charters – this is simply a mechanism to re-segregate schools into the haves and the have-nots or, if you will, the “cares” and the “care-nots.” The hope of those who designed, developed, and teach in public schools is that ALL childen will become productive citizens no matter what their circumstances. Indeed, that’s a tall order. Yet hundreds of thousands of caring, dedicated teachers dive into their classrooms across the country every day to do just that, in spite of every effort on the part of “reformers” to script instruction and force teachers to do nothing more than force kids to memorize meaningless factoids through “higher standards” and the insidious destructiveness of minimum competency testing like the CRCT.
Perhaps it IS time for the governor and his ilk to continue Purdue’s work to steal billions from the public schools to leave them nothing but wastelands for the poor. I can think of no policy more likely to produce the same kinds of folks right here at home as we now create in the middle east whose only goal is to destroy our country. Not a pretty picture for the future of the United States of America. But: There’s hope. If it gets bad enough, perhaps we’ll for a change do something intelligent.
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
3:09 pm
@Mountain Man . . . Yes, I believe that is the rate for 4 years. The Georgia graduation tests are ridiculously easy. When I read this blog it staggers me that schools in this state can be as bad as claimed. We simply don’t have these issues in Fayette County.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
3:10 pm
@Prof-
had a mixture of appointed AND elected officials as the board members, with the majority elected officials;
had an accountability mechanism for evaluating the approved charter schools after a year by means of external auditors;
provided funding sources for the state commission board’s bureaucracy and offices that were independent from public education funding.
You actually stepped out there and answered the question. But I (respectfully) disagree with your approach because :
1) A majority of elected officials would look to the politics of every decision. That means that the same lobby that has killed real reform in the past would just keep on killing it.
2) Auditing and making a decision after just a year would sabotage the schools that were created. I doubt that traditional public schools would ever agree to such a stricture.A reasonable time would be 3-5 years and show results or bye,bye charter. One year is way too short. If you could do it in one year, charters really would be a magic bullet.
3) The state commissions board and bureaucracy chew up less resources than the GAE office (per employee), but nobody thinks that they are overfunded.
We disagree, but at least you have given it some thought. I wish all public policy got that.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
“The hope of those who designed, developed, and teach in public schools is that ALL childen will become productive citizens no matter what their circumstances.”
Hope all you want, it is not going to happen AND it is beyond the educational system’s control. Can you stop parents from being dope-heads? Can you make poverty go away? This is simply not what education should be about. The education system should educate the ones who wish to learn at the best level they can.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
” The Georgia graduation tests are ridiculously easy.”
Then why in some schools do a large percentage not only don’t pass but don’t pass after multiple tries.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:32 pm
” The Georgia graduation tests are ridiculously easy.”
They are “ridiculously easy” to someone who has learned the material. What about someone who missed 1/4 of their class days and didn’t pay attention the othe 3/4?
Prof
November 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
@ Snarkysnake. OK. I got some particulars wrong. Possible rebuttals to your rebuttals:
1. That is always the danger in a democracy: elected officials want to keep on being elected. But at least they would be accountable to the voters. The fear of many in the “No” contingency was that for-profit and special interest charter schools could be approved for nefarious reasons, such as pleasing those who appointed the board members.
2. Fine–3-5 years. Just build in some sort of external audit of the charter school.
3. Two wrongs don’t make a right. When you add the GAE bureaucracy to a new charter school commission board bureaucracy…both of which can approve charter schools…. Georgia is not flush with cash right now.
But my point really was that approving the amendment had nothing to do with approving of the concept of charter schools, but approving a new poorly thought-out administrative layer of state government.
3schoolkids
November 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
Show me ONE state in the country that has drastically improved it’s educational outcome by increasing competition through independent charter schools. For all the data being peddled about the success of independent charters who offer true competition, there are no statistics offered by state. Now comes the justification for that information not existing “the amendment only passed because people want another option.” OK, I get that, I tried that option myself. But the problem is having an option is a temporary fix to the problem. The quality of the option isn’t guaranteed. Hence the need now for more options (publicly subsidized private, online and even home school options). The fundamental problem with all public schools (whether traditional, charter, subsidized private and online) is putting all children into the same box. If the goal is a 4 year college degree (and for some a Masters/PHD) and we have moved to a national curriculum in order to supply a steady pipeline of similarly educated workers, then no school will offer the option every parent wants. That is, the option for your child to learn at their own pace and with the curriculum and instruction that works best for them and for their goals. The best way to get that is to home school.
@Mountain Man: We really don’t need to bring back the GHSGT, one of my kids easily passed the American History portion having only yet completed 1/3 of the curriculum. Disparities among difficulty levels in the schools is a large problem that is not rectified by bringing that test back. New independent charters won’t improve that as you are still drawing from the same pool of students and staff and even with CCGPS being implemented-still being tested on the same material (EOCT’s and writing test) in order to get that diploma (which may or may not be worth the paper it’s printed on).
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
3:40 pm
Then why in some schools do a large percentage not only don’t pass but don’t pass after multiple tries.
I am unqualified to answer that question, but I have some theories:
1. The students didn’t care.
2. The teachers didn’t care.
3. The parents didn’t care.
4. The administration didn’t care.
I’m thinking 1 or more of these things might explain it.
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
“get that diploma (which may or may not be worth the paper it’s printed on).”
Which is NOT worth the paper it is printed on. I know of actual cases where students failed the GHSGT MULTIPLE times and then was allowed to get a “variance” AND RECEIVE A DIPLOMA. If that test is “so easy”, what does that say about those who fail it?
Mountain Man
November 28th, 2012
3:49 pm
“Then why in some schools do a large percentage not only don’t pass but don’t pass after multiple tries.I am unqualified to answer that question, but I have some theories:
1. The students didn’t care.
2. The teachers didn’t care.
3. The parents didn’t care.
4. The administration didn’t care.”
I am guessing 1 and 3.
living in an outdated ed system
November 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
@3schoolkids – give it time. Rome wasn’t built in a day! It’ll happen before you know it.
Snarkysnake
November 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
@Prof
Well reasoned, and I agree wholeheartedly that yet another statewide bureaucracy will become a law unto itself in pretty short order. BUT-
There was no practical way to effect change in the sclerotic system we have now short of strong initiatives such as this. It goes back to the politics angle that I noted in (1). If the amendment that we just passed had been held a different way (On 161 local ballots instead of statewide) it would have failed. The reason it would have failed is that it would not have been held in a general election year. It would have been conducted in an off year when school employees make up an almost majority of the turnout and they would have killed it for good. The results would have been shown to elected leaders as “proof” that the voters like the schools just as they are.
2) We agree. Audits should be conducted with integrity by an objective party (preferably from outside the state) with no axe to grind. Sort of the way we should conduct achievement tests when everybody follows the rules. Bad charters should be dissolved forthwith if they are unsatisfactory.
3) Local school boards can still deny a charter. They haven’t lost that right. But if they are being capricious or political,there is now an avenue of appeal that is an important part of the democratic process. This is a reasonable solution to absolute power being held by economically interested parties.
Now. There are no permanent victories in our form of government (except against slavery, I guess). And I know that the power that we create will someday be wielded by our opponents.But that is a risk that a lot of parents and taxpayers are willing to take so that we can see some real improvement in our education system.
Private Citizen
November 28th, 2012
5:28 pm
David Farrar, I don’t know what planet you come from, but Georgia has no teacher unions.
Private Citizen
November 28th, 2012
5:32 pm
David Farrar, You really need to do a retraction. As a Georgia teacher with no union protection, I do not appreciate your misinformation. I welcome your expression, but you need to tune-up on some basic facts about the conditions for labor in Georgia. Georgia government schools teachers get time clocks like a KwikTrip employee and no labor protections. The bosses can tell a Georgia teacher to stand on one toe and the teacher has to do it if they do not want to be charged with “insubordination.” Work conditions can be quite unfriendly for Georgia teachers and many people advise to simply leave the state if you are an education professional (as in TEACHER) and want to work for kids in a government school system.
Georgia coach
November 28th, 2012
7:00 pm
@senator Fran Millar, when the truth of your efforts comes out it will be revealed that this is nothing but a money and power grad for you and those of your ilk. You will be exposed as a fraud and a cheat. Signed kent sparks. I will not call you a fraud anonymously
Rick L in ATL
November 28th, 2012
7:23 pm
@3SchoolKids: We haven’t reached the tipping point yet where traditional public schools, finally acknowledging that they are threatened with displacement (or outright extinction) start to act like there is a knife to their throats. The proof of that is that the bozo who wrote this piece of dreck (Maureen: “It’s anti-charter? I’ll RUN it!”) characterizes these abysmally failing schools thusly:
“There is always room for improvement. ”
Really? That’s your characterization of the schools the rest of us know are, by any metric, utter failures?
Raudonis: you can’t be serious, and you can’t be taken seriously.
Wailing liberals can wring their hands all they want about the poor children who will (in their opinion) be harmed by the deconstruction of traditional public schooling. But as I often say, anyone who actually CARED about those children would be pulling the levers on the bulldozers, because whatever we do next, it will be better than what we have now.
Jerry Eads
November 28th, 2012
8:22 pm
MM, I agree – public education alone can’t ‘fix’ society when the politicians choose to use teachers as their scapegoat rather than address infrastructure, jobs and poverty.
BUT the schools MUST help break the cycle, else our country will go the way of all those fascinatingly depressing scifi movies. We DO break the cycle – one kid and sometimes one parent at a time – but it’s a tough row to hoe when the trolls downtown (on both sides of the aisle) do no more than stuff their under-the-table money in their pockets and sucker the oh-so-gullible public into believing it’s the teachers’ fault. Was it the line workers’ fault that GM and Chrysler went belly-up? Nuh-uh. ‘Twas the girls and boys who run the ship.
Jerry Eads
November 28th, 2012
8:28 pm
I should note that for once in a long time we have somebody at the head of the state ed ship who’s part of the solution rather than the problem. The problems lie elsewhere.
Just A Teacher
November 28th, 2012
8:32 pm
I didn’t want to walk away from this column without sharing some ideas that I have seen help students graduate on time.
1. Offer online credit recovery. This is particularly important when you have immature 13 and 14 year olds taking high school classes and they fail to recognize that failing classes their first semester of high school will keep them from graduating with their class.
2. Do not allow unruly students to disrupt classes. All teachers in Georgia have the right (I would call it a responsibility) to remove a disruptive student from the classroom environment. It is the law.
3. Expell chronic discipline offenders and send them to an Alternative School which is more suited to teach them. If they misbehave there, then they must be expelled from the school system.
4. Zero tolerance of gang related activity. Any student known to be affiliated with a gang is taken out of our schools and prosecuted under a local law against gang activity.
5. Offer students (and parents) the opportunity to make up assignments given during Out of School suspension in Saturday school.
6. We have an open campus high school and an evening high school where students can make up credits on their own time.
7. Finally, be sure to recognize excellence in academics and create a culture within the school where the best students are rewarded for their efforts by giving them special recognition and perks (like free french fries or cookies at lunch or a break from class for a celebratory breakfast).
The article wanted ideas for improving traditional schools, so there are a few I have seen work over the years.
crankee-yankee
November 28th, 2012
8:44 pm
Senator Fran Millar
November 28th, 2012
11:20 am
And we should believe you because?
crankee-yankee
November 28th, 2012
8:47 pm
Private Citizen
November 28th, 2012
5:28 pm
Oh, Farrar’s just referring to his talking points sheet.
N. GA Teacher
November 28th, 2012
9:01 pm
Charter schools receive taxpayer money, and are thus held to public laws, correct? Therefore they cannot 1) select who gets in, 2) kick out behavior and academic “problem kids”; 3) allow really good (market-priced) cafeteria meals; 4) hold kids truly accountable for homework and tests because then they won’t make ” required” graduation rates. This is why most charters will not work, and why true private schools do. Magnet schools are the only public alternative schools (along with Kipp, which is a whole different entity) that seem to be worthwhile alternatives- and why- because Magnets CAN kick kids back to zoned schools.
bootney farnsworth
November 28th, 2012
9:57 pm
what’s gonna be funny to watch is to see what happens when charters prove not to be the be all end all solution red meat Fran and co have pitched them to be.
Morning Reads for Thursday, November 29 — Peach Pundit
November 29th, 2012
7:00 am
[...] school amendment debate far from over: Next up in the Georgia Legislature, redefining “public” schools. It will reappear again and again as the “conservatives” (people who want to conserve and [...]
joke on us
November 29th, 2012
10:59 am
all this blustering and ppl seem to forget what its all about the “STUDENT”: you got some good ones, dumb ones, some don’t care, and etc…. and until we have a multi-track grad system the one size fits all NCLB BS will be with us.
Not every child should be prepped for college; there should be a “CHOICE” between college ready and carrer rdy.
famous words or infamous whichever you prefer: “Mrs. Gump, your boy is special”
Really amazed
November 29th, 2012
12:34 pm
How many still believe that your child/children are receiving an excellent education via the public school your child/children attend?? I hear all kinds of things. Would love to hear your thoughts!
DeKalb Inside Out
November 29th, 2012
1:15 pm
Georgia Coach,
Please be more specific as to what you are referring:
What efforts?
What money?
What power?
Thanks!
Dekalb Teacher
November 29th, 2012
7:16 pm
Look folks, it’s quite simple. Give more power to the teachers and principal to discipline behavior issues properly. None of this 4th, 5th, 6th etc chances. Classes are constantly being disrupted by these kinds of students who have attitude problem and really don’t care about anyone but themselves. I have a new student who came to our school yesterday and is only 6 years old and I had to stop my class several times to deal with his bad behavior. That was only in 50 minutes! There are no separate gifted or high achievers classes in elementary school and that’s where all the problems begin. All it takes is one bad egg to disrupt the class learning and before you know it, you have more discipline problems in that class because the other students join in. There’s only so many times you can write discipline referrals or give a bad conduct grade. Most of the parents don’t even want to come in for a conference. How can you fix anything with that attitude?
We need to be on a 3 strikes and you are out. And by out I mean suspended. If it continues again, the student needs to be expelled. Why should the rest of the class suffer because of one or a handful of students? Thank goodness my kids are in gifted and don’t have to deal with continuous bad behavior except in connections & PE.
Private Citizen
November 29th, 2012
11:41 pm
Snarkysnake, I think you should over to Japan and look up Hirohito’s kids and ask them, and then come back and report what they said. But you to hear it yourself from them. Don’t worry, though, you’ll have a good trip but it is kind of a long plane ride (20 hrs).
Pride and Joy
November 30th, 2012
7:50 am
Dekalb Teacher, isn’t it possible that the “new student” is having difficulty adjusting as any healthy child would?
I got moved around and shoved around in schools a great deal. My family moved a lot. It was hard for me. At times, the accents were so different from my own that I couldn’t even understand what the other kids were saying to me.
And here’s another thing — why don’t you advocate for classrooms that are leveled for the childrens’ abilities? YOu admit that your gifted child doesn’t have to suffer because your child is in a class with kids who have the same abilities but instead you advocate just throwing the kid aaway after “three strikes.”
You want to THROW A SIX YEAR OLD OUT OF SCHOOL!
Let it sink in.
If you are that angry, you need to get out of the classroom and push some paper around instead of ruining the life of a child.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
disappointed posted, “These [charter] schools have the ability to develop a charter that adopts prayer as part of their school”: Absolutely not true. Charter schools are public schools. No public school in the United States is permitted to institutionalize prayer of any sort.
This does NOT mean, however, that no one can pray in a public school. Any student or group of students who wish to pray, as long as they don’t disrupt the academic environment, are legally protected to do just that.
What is not legal is for school employees to lead them in prayer. Those who bemoan that “they took prayer out of the schools” don’t understand that what actually was done by the U. S. Supreme Court was to protect the right of students to pray the way they want to, or choose not to pray at all, without school officials telling them how and when to pray.
It’s been said that as long as there are math tests, there’ll always be prayer in the schools.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
“if the state continues to reduce public school funding (as it has for nearly a decade) while increasing the number of competitors that do not play by the same rules (transportation, testing, etc.), it obviously puts public schools at a disadvantage.”
Mr. Raudonis, how is it that you see charter schools not “playing by the same rules” with regard to testing? Every charter school in Georgia is required to administer the CRCT, the EOCT, and the GHSWT and GHSGT (for those who haven’t aged out of the GHSGT cohorts). Your charge that charter schools don’t play by the same testing rules is patently false–and you know it.
The anti-choice, anti-charter defenders of the education establishment don’t hesitate to throw out bald-faced lies in order to try to bolster their indefensible position: that the public school monopoly deserves more and more funding even when it has proved that it does not work for all of the students it is supposed to educate.
Pride and Joy
November 30th, 2012
7:41 pm
Dr. Monica…Very well said…AGAIN.
thanks!
Ron F.
November 30th, 2012
9:08 pm
Well Dr. H, he does have you one point. Charter schools do not offer transportation at the same level as public schools are required, by LAW, to offer. It’s expensive, and considering the current funding options available, is a major challenge for charter schools. But if we are to see them as being equal competitors in terms of test performance, then they must be open to the same pool of children. Transportation is a necessity for some, and charter schools lock out those kids in many cases. Those kids are also generally poor, and without buses to get them there, simply cannot access the full range of options available. Mr. Raudonis makes a good point, and the “defenders of the education establishment” are concerned. At this point, it seems very possible that all we’ll have in the end is a dual system where “public” school becomes something on the level of housing projects and welfare.
Ron F.
November 30th, 2012
9:13 pm
“How many still believe that your child/children are receiving an excellent education via the public school your child/children attend??”
I’ve taught for over twenty years and currently have my two sons in my school system (rural, Title I district). I left the metro area ten years ago for a smaller, MUCH poorer system with my young sons in tow. I can tell you, even with the challenges faced by smaller systems with less funding, I wouldn’t have my sons anywhere else. They have teachers who truly care and work very hard to teach them with the same intensity and quality of any teacher I’ve ever met. They choose to be there working in a poorer district with kids who come from all sorts of families. Give me that kind of school and system any day!
Dr. Monica Henson
December 1st, 2012
5:01 pm
Ron, transportation to any public school is not required by state or federal law, except in the case of special education. Federal law mandates that if transportation is listed in a special education IEP as a “related service,” then the school is obligated legally to provide it door-to-door from the student’s home to the school building.
Other than that, public school transportation is not mandated legally. However, if a district “opts in” to provide it, then there are several rules and regulations governing buses, drivers, safety, etc.
It’s a common misconception, but no public school is legally required to transport students to and from, except in very narrowly defined special ed situations. That’s why school administrators can remove students from buses when they misbehave without having to go through due process.
I agree that charter schools should offer transportation and not to do so erects a barrier to families who can’t provide their own. My school provides MARTA cards in the metro Atlanta region to students attending the Magic Johnson Bridgescape learning center whose families meet income qualification guidelines. We will do the same with public transportation services in Macon, Savannah, and Augusta when we open our centers in those cities. Most of our students study from home and don’t need transportation for school.
Private Citizen
December 2nd, 2012
8:38 am
My school provides MARTA cards in the metro Atlanta region to students attending the Magic Johnson Bridgescape learning center whose families meet income qualification guidelines.
Hey. that’s a great idea and a benefit to to a city / metro area. Just using the public bus system is an education in itself! Timing, location, socio-interaction and the weird comfort aspect of the bus is always going to be coming over the hill and into sight at some point! And with the bus card the sense that you can go anywhere you want to go, it’s just up to you.
Dr. Monica Henson
December 2nd, 2012
11:11 am
I don’t understand why more metropolitan school systems don’t create an arrangement with the public transit authority for discounted bus & train passes for high school students who live in the areas served by public transit, rather than running school buses. It’s a needless duplication of services, in my opinion.
Dr. Monica Henson
December 2nd, 2012
11:23 am
We don’t provide unlimited-ride MARTA cards, by the way. Ours are reloadable and only provide a limited number of transfers Monday through Friday, so that students use them for school only so they don’t run out of transfers before the weekend. MARTA allows us to purchase them in volume at a discount.
Ron F.
December 3rd, 2012
2:20 am
Marta cards are great, but what about the kids outside the Marta service area? Kids in Clayton county for instance, as close to the metro area as it is, are out of luck. Public schools sytems, while perhaps not required to offer transporation, are doing so in every system I’ve seen. How many don’t? This is a limiting factor charter schools will have to deal with in order to reach out to more families in need. If not, the general progression to what Mr. Raudonis describes is already under way.
Are Public Schools Analogous to Public Housing? « Network Schools – Wayne Gersen
December 10th, 2012
9:57 am
[...] An article written by Lee Raudonis, former executive director of the Georgia Republican Party, was posted Sunday on the Atlanta Journal Constitution’s blog and cross-posted by Diane Ravitch. In this blog post Raudonis asserts that the ultimate goal of the authors of Constitutional Amendment 1, which was approved by the Georgia voters in November, is to re-define public schools in a way that equates them in the minds of the public with “public housing”. He writes: To better understand (the effect of this change in the public’s mindset), think about the terms “public housing,” “public hospital,” and “public school.” For most people, the term “public housing” conjures up images of low cost, government-subsidized housing for people with little or no income who cannot afford to buy or rent their own homes. Similarly, the term “public hospital” is commonly used to refer to publicly funded hospitals that primarily serve those members of society who have little or no income or private health insurance. [...]
Marvin C Gentz
December 16th, 2012
7:32 pm
Just for the record, for many years, reliable evaluators have concluded that if you hold poverty variables constant, public school education achievement scores are higher than students of any other country in the world. The fact is that we have more students of poverty per capita than any western country in the world.
In addition, a very reliable and respected study by Stanford University concluded that charter schools do not achieve higher than existing Public Schools and most achieve worse.
The concluding data about home schooling is abysmal and students with vouchers cannot find reasonable schools to attend.
Private or parochial schools do not outperform public schools.