Feds release new high school grad data using common yardstick; Georgia’s rate is 67 percent, putting us among bottom three.

Pretty ugly when Alabama beats you by 5% points.

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And the GA teacher’s unions can’t figure out why we want charter schools.

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How about breaking it down by students who do and don’t cheat their way to graduation.

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how about breaking down rates:
systems who practice widespread grade inflation and those who do not.

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What’s up with New Mexico? They are ruining our race for the bottom.

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And people like Bootney Farnsworth are still clueless and ignorant.

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I guess this means that Georgia’s state motto is no longer, “Thank God for Mississippi!”

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Must be George Bush’s fault.

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@Hillbilly D – It is my understanding that a four year cohort is used for the graduation calculation. If a student takes five years to graduate, he/she is not included in the total graduation percentage.

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you either graduated or you did not!

That’s the way I see it, too. Of course, it’s better to graduate on time but if you graduate late, you still graduated and you still have the same diploma as everybody else.

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This “metric” counts students who DO NOT DROP OUT, but who take more than four years to finish as dropouts. This is so counter to simple logic that it makes the entire chart laughable.

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No matter what the formula used, Georgia is not graduating one in three students. That is unacceptable, period.

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is the State Government doing anything to change this?

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NCLB is working.

Soon every child will be in the same place; AT THE BOTTOM!

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All of the red states at the bottom. Coincidence?

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I live in Georgia but was not educated here. The culture is different here. Many people that I have worked with here considered it rude and/or effeminate to show or demostrate knowledge above simple level and I mean for men. That is part of the problem. Another aspect of the problem is what I call expectation. Families do not expect enough from the teachers and do not put much effort in themselves. From my perspective it seems to be how children get socialized. If they want to fit in with others and the standards are not high, then you get the results that you see in this study. Top that off with the cheating on tests and you have a real mess.

This is not an issure of having Unions, it is an issue of expectation and higher standards. Recently I saw a teacher mispell a word on a chalk board. So there you have it.

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I for one did my job, both kids graduated high school and college…it starts at home people, demand better from them!

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@High school teacher- Unless GA’s graduation exam has changed drastically over the last few years, it’s a laughably easy test. I haven’t seen actual data regarding failure rates for that test, but my guess is that it has a pretty low failure rate.

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must be obama’s fault

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Mr./ miss UGA Economics major:

Bet if you examined the data closely they would show that much of the disparity is due to the demographic make-up of the various states. Fact is, most of the “red states” have higher than average populations of blacks and Hispanics who perform below average in school and on standardized tests. If Georgia is really worst what does that say about an economics degree from its flagship university?

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Just imagine if the whole country tried teaching these kids how to succeed instead of telling them how special they are and we are all winners, things would be different. We are raising a bunch of lazy, whiny people. Send them to Catholic school with nuns as teachers!

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IT’S THE PARENTS, STUPID! While some schools are clearly better than others, and outstanding schools will absolutely benefit motivated students, if students are not encouraged from home – and made to attend class and take learning seriously, they will fail or under-perform. In too many cases, the parents of the kids who contribute to this woeful statistic are unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to get their children into an alternative environment that would give the student an advantage.

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As a state, we must pay attention to the factors that contribute to the dropout rate. Most of these factors are not even school related, yet we are holding schools completely accountable for the failure of parents, communities, and our state to provide the on-going support needed for all students to earn high school diplomas.

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Is anyone surprised? I am a teacher in Cobb County School District and find it horribly sad that the politicians have ruined our country. It is politicians who tell us what to teach and create the curriculum. They hire people, who have never taught, to design what teachers should be teaching. That is a joke and NCLB should have been your first clue. Unions have also contributed to the demise of education, of which we do not have in Georgia, thank God! I have no idea why children can drop out of school at 16 years old. Hispanics refuse to learn how to speak English, politicians refuse to make English the USA official language, and then we wonder why the Hispanic students drop out. The democrats are the main contributors to the poverty stricken, blacks, and Hispanics by giving them entitlements left and right. Why would they have to go to school when they can live off of the taxpayers. Maybe if we raised our standards, stop affirmative action, make people work for their grades, work to get into college instead of accepting people based on race, and stop all the hand outs, the kids would actually value education. Why work for it when you know as soon as someone see your race, you are good as gold. Stop asking race on applications for jobs as well. You can not expect children to learn when their parents refuse to learn. Children learn from their parents. Again, the politicians are killing our schools and kids!

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Great. Just freakin’ great…

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It doesn’t surprise most southern and Republican ran states suck in those areas most of the time. Education and Poverty.

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@delois: when was the last time you saw a nun?

@Pete: absolutely correct.

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Si Senior I can no pass the graduation test.

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And, how much did the state legislature and Governor Deal cut the budget for education last year or the year before or the year before? But, let’s give another tax break and cut education funding again! I bet you can get 40 in a classroom if you try real hard…

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This is NOT good…but NOT surprising….High schools are plagued by behavior problems, fights, uncaring parents, and kids who rule their homes…parents give up trying to keep youth in school and if kids come to school, learning is the last thing on their minds…GEORGIA HAS A SAD FUTURE OF ADULTS…Most will not be able to read and many will not be able to count…THE “NOT CARING ABOUT LEARNING” IS RAMPANT IN THIS STATE…
Kids do not have books to take home, do not know their time tables, can not spell and certainly can not speak intelligently…SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN GEORGIA MUST COME UP WITH PLANS FOR THE DROP OUTS AND IMPLEMENT WAYS TO KEEP KIDS IN SCHOOL AND LEARNING…
It is a problem….

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If people in Georgia would care about half as much about education as they do about that football team in Athens we would be in the top 5 and not the bottom 5. Its= is ironic that people spend so much time, energy, and money rooting for a school in which they have no hope or interest in ever attending. Our priorities are backwards in this state

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Maureen:
Even in these times it is not likely that children with “disabilities” make up enough of the overall student population to affect the overall graduation rates between and among states. I still bet that one major factor in Georgia’s relative rankings is its very large population of students with a poor command of English, and, if those statistics were tossed, the rankings would shift markedly.

You and I agree that UGA is a top notch school. My comment was directed to the suggestion that Georgia is “worst” in “just about everything” posited by Mr. /Miss economics major.

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Geee look what two races are bringing us down? Shocker. Just like the rest of the country.

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I am a huge opponent when it comes to classroom inclusion. I think this process does not work for most of the special needs individuals as the curriculum has to be watered down, so that this small group of students are able to a small piece of success. Is this really success? I have been to committee meetings where researchers and educational leaders have argued that all students are equal and deserve an equal education, but my question is at what cost. Yes, every person does have the same rights, but is it equally right that some students are receiving modications for classwork and receive A’s, when my child is taking more rigorous courses, studies hard, and has to answer a large amount of questions earning her A. I don’t see how this is beneficial to our society because when most of these students are asked perform on tests using the skills that have been modified for the entire school year they are not able to perform because guess what? The tests are not modified, no paraprofessionals to assist, and most of all they are ask to answer all questions on the test. So when we get results like this where the special needs or disabled students are not performing, why would we expect anything more! I want all parents to be outraged either you have a regular ed or special needs child because this is an injustice to both types of learners because everyone as we can see is failing. The current educational law that schools must abide by has had a huge impact on a large population of individuals entering our workforce who cannot perform or even think! Ending my rant for those who say that inclusion and modifications is the way it should stay ask yourself this question. If we are preparing each student for future jobs, will their work in the workplace be modified? Honestly how many of these students who receive large amounts of modifications will be Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, or even Georgia Tech graduates? We have got to do something because our children are hurting!

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Jagger-spot on!

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I am a firm believer that education begins in the home. When our two sons were in elementary and middle school we made sure they did their homework. When they attended Milton High they really did not have a problem, and they did their homework without us asking. They understood that their future was in their hands. They also played sports through high school, and dabbled with guitar and piano. They are now out of college, and are working full time at the age of 23 and 21. We are very proud. The extracurricular programs kept them busy. I never thought I would do calculus again.
Our daughter attends private school, and she is doing very well. She still has six years to go, and she may go back to public school for high school.
The point is this – education begins in the home. Children that are not pushed to study by their parents will probably not do very well, eventhough they are capable. The teacher can only do so much. The teacher cannot go home with the child. The teacher cannot quell the chaos inside of some of the homes that is not conducive to learning. The teacher cannot make the parents make their child do their homework or study.

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Interesting stuff. Earlier in these comments “gdfo” noted that “I live in Georgia but was not educated here. The culture is different here. Many people that I have worked with here considered it rude and/or effeminate to show or demostrate knowledge above simple level . . .”

After I graduated from high school in Georgia (medium-sized, non-metro town), my family moved to North Carolina (also a medium-sized, non-metro town). My two younger brothers enrolled in high school there. We immediately saw a striking difference in the cultures. In my Georgia high school, there were only two males in the chorus. Needless to say, chorus was not a macho endeavor. When we moved to North Carolina, however, many of the football players were in the chorus. Maybe there is something in the water.

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Don’t blame the teachers, it is the parents who are not doing their part helping the students succeed and funding the schools at a level necessary. In Clayton County, the voters elect a disfunctional school board and an new sheriff who may soon be a convicted felon; what can you expect!!!

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@ Pete

That’s another problem that only applies to certain areas. Culture of most southern states is different from northern states anyways.

Where as you might need Math above Calculus to succeed in California and New York down here I honestly don’t believe you’ll need more than Algebra at best.

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It sounds like the Obama demographic

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Obama Voters

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Hopefully these statistics will improve now that the voters chose “yes” on the charter school board amendment.

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The simple truth is that the oligarchs that rule this state don’t give a hoot about education or healthcare for the underclass.

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This doesn’t surprise me one bit. My 10th grader’s chemistry teacher went on maternity leave over a month ago, and according to my child, she has learned NOTHING in this class since then. No class instruction has occurred…seems the substitute teachers are more like babysitters while the “real” teacher is on leave. My child has not had a single grade recorded in this class (confirmed on the parent website) since mid October. Calls to both the new school principal as well as the interim “mentor” principal have gone unreturned…the next step is to show up at the school and demand a meeting. So, I think we’re lucky we’re third from the bottom and not dead last in this state. Georgia public education leaves much to be desired.

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Absolute and complete blame rests with the GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA. It is the governor’s responsibility and accountability for this travesty. Clearly, there is absolutely NO care or interest by the current governor to address this issue. WHERE is his plan ? I am confused. He has done NOTHING on education. Georgia’s education situation is a mockery. Georgia’s governor is more concerned with expanding lanes on GA 400 so that his electoral base in North Fulton county can drive their luxury vehicles back and forth. Governor — we are not amused. Move on.

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Hmmmmm. Apples to apples you say. State graduation rates calculate the number of students who graduate in a 4 year period from the time they enter 9th grade. States such as GA with a high immigrant population or LEP (limited english proficient) students in public schools are at a disadvantage when comparing to neighboring states. LEP students are impacted by a lack of ability to perform well on EOCT (end of course tests) and GHSGT (Ga high school graduation tests). States should publish the actual number of students in these categories as well as the percentage of test takers when making comparisons.
Below is an explanation from John Barge regarding the cohort method.
The primary difference in calculating the new graduation rate from the state’s current method is in the definition of the cohort.

The new “four-year adjusted cohort graduation rate” defines the cohort based on when a student first becomes a freshman. The rate is calculated using the number of students who graduate within four years and includes adjustments for student transfers.

In contrast, Georgia’s current graduation rate calculation defines the cohort upon graduation, which may include students who take more than four years to graduate from high school. Over the past five years, the state’s traditional graduation rate has gradually increased, rising from 70.8 percent in 2006 to 80.9 percent in 2011.

The new rate, which also includes subgroups, will be used for federal accountability purposes this school year. However, Georgia has received approval from the U.S. Department of Education to use a five-year cohort graduation rate for 2012.

“We know that not all students are the same and not all will graduate from high school in four years, so we asked for the U.S. Department of Education’s permission to use a five-year cohort graduation rate for federal accountability purposes,” said Superintendent Barge. “Ultimately, our goal is to ensure each child will graduate from high school ready to succeed in college and a career, regardless of how long it takes.”

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below even Alabama and Mississippi? embarrassing–the state has hit rock bottom.

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-11^2 = ?

Note: No parentheses given.

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121

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The problem is the stupid law that allows 16 year olds to drop out of school without their parent’s consent. I have talk to some pretty high up folks in the Cobb County School District and they tell me that the law won’t change due to south Georgia politics. You get rid of this law and graduation rates will get a substantial bump.

Secondly parents don’t involve themselves in education. They expect for the teachers to do it all. My parents made sure we knew how read and write before we started school and worked with us everyday. I come from a working class family and we were far from rich. Poor people can have standards but they just have to want better for their children.

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II know it’s not the “right” answer but I think we’ve got to find a way to teach something applicable to those students not on the college track. Why would a student who is struggling and needs to get a full time job stay in school learning subjects that won’t help them one bit in the real world. We should be teaching everyone about personal finance, budgeting, job search, and other real-world skills. I can personally say that I have never used the information on how cells divide or what the inside of a frog looks like. Make it more practical and less political and I think we can get more of these students through high school.

I also think that there is a direct correlation in drop out rates and teen pregnancy. I work with teenage moms and see many cases of students dropping out so they can get on with the rest of their lives and get a job quicker. It’s unfortunate that so many teenagers aren’t waiting until they’re really ready to have a baby. We’ve got to change this social trend AND we’ve got to find a way to deal with the struggles of young parents so they can stay in school and get a better job. Childcare is the number one obstacle to many of this.

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Georgia has given up on education because it’s socialistic.

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@real John: Wrong! I am an African American woman from Texas, home of Barbara Jordan, and our passing rate is 81%. Please don’t compare us to your population. We are not the cause of your passing rate dropping. It is the whole attitude of the parents and students in Georgia. There are no expectations. When you explain to the students here that it is not acting white or gay to be articulate, you are ridiculed. Unfortunately, someone has told these people that it is okay to be ignorant and grand to be at the bottom. The parents get offended when you point out that their child is not studying and of course it is the teacher’s fault. My family was contemplaing moving here and I told them point blank that the expectation level of the general population as far as education was too low. I also said stay in Texas until your children are in high school (Most of them are in gifted because they QUALIFIED) and then move here and get the Hope scholarship. Most of the children are bilingual and yes we are African American. All of them are articulate. So please don’t be confused, everybody is not the same. Furthermore, students with disabilities are properly place and not required to sit in Gifted classes to somehow miraculously qualify for college. Mastery of Basic Skills is emphasized, spelling tests are still given and learning multiplication tables from rote memory is still expected. If you try and teach grammar you are frowned upon. Blame your system, not your teachers.

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For the dummies trying to put it on different calculation rates, be aware the calculation method is the same for all states. Georgia is just populated with a bunch of semi retards who keep reproducing. And for those attempting to to tie the graduation rate to people who voted for PRESIDENT OBAMA, if my memory serves me correctly there were way more votes in Georgia for Shmitt Romney than for the President.

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I have seen a great deal of athlete bashing on this subject. You all are barking up the wrong tree. Athletes as a sub group probably have a higher graduation rate then any of the other sub groups listed in the article. You must pass to play in Georgia and coaching staffs keep a good eye on their teams to make sure the kids are doing the right thing in the classroom.

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If Georgia is so dumb then why does half the world move to Atlanta and Georgia. Atlanta is the economic engine for the southeast .Most of California can not even speak English. What is the point of this useless article.

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@watchful Eyes there are NO TEACHER UNIONS IN GEORGIA. THIS IS AN AT WILL STATE. The so-called teacher unions are organizations with no validity and cannot effect change at any level. When people keep placing this on the blog, I immediately assume that they are products of the Georgia Educational system. Comprehension is a wonderful thing, please try it. If there were unions we would be able to strike. In Georgia striking is against the law. So perhaps that is why you are at the bottom. Check the states with a real teacher’s union. THEY ARE NOT AT THE BOTTOM! WE ARE! DUH!!!!

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Stop trying to make excuses, Maureen. Your crowd complains about the “48th-ranked SAT scores” statistic, complaining that too many GA kids take the test…but then ignore the fact that we’re 9th of the 12 states that test 70% of their students.

This article does nothing but illustrate the continued failure of the Liberal Ideology in education. Yet your idea above is the same as always: “More Funding! More Funding! More Funding!”

GA has doubled per-child spending since the 80s. Result: 67% HS Graduation rate.

You liberals need to get the hell out of education. The results of your disastrous experiment are in: FAILURE.

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I wonder what the stats would look like if you compared north of Macon, to South of Macon? I have a friend that teaches in Fitzgerald, GA and a relative that teaches in Albany, GA, they have MAJOR issues down there. At one school, they had a sub with only a HS diploma “teaching” an advance algebra class for the whole school year. The kids didn’t learn a thing. Let’s be real, if the state really took the time to look at some of these schools, they would have to shut them down.

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How many decades will it take to make these minorities understand that education is their only key to success? It’s been 4 decades of MY life, and the results are the same or worse. Maureen, I lived in a rural county in HS, and even in the 60’s I did not know one student who dropped out to work on a farm or the mills, and there were plenty of them around. I don’t see that as being a huge number these days, but I could be wrong.

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@Maureen — if you’re going to make comparisons then by all means, let’s make some others tooo … starting with GA’s 30% black population compared to 7% in MA, 15% in NJ, 10% in CT and less than 1% in VT.

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No Teachers unions in Georgia?????? What is GAE & MACE? Oh, not a union!….RIGHTTTTTTTT….

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a lot of kids in the South weren’t counted as dropouts a generation ago because they never attended high school in the first place. They went right to work on family farms or local mills.

Exactly how long ago do you consider “a generation” to be?

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@Jamal–last time…listen closely…They are associations NOT UNIONS.

About GAE: Every day you choose work on the front lines on the behalf our children and public education. And you, more than anymore, realize the importance of receiving support and guidance when you need it. Your professional association, GAE, stands ready to help you when and where you need it.

MACE-Metro ASSOCIATION OF CLASSROOM EDUCATORS.

Here is a list of labor unions in the state of Georgia. There is no teacher’s union listed. Why? Because we don’t have one! The next person that makes this accusation on the blog will let me know that their comprehension skills and IQ are on the low end of the percentile measures using standardized tests…

Labor unions are responsible for collective bargaining and pay negotiations. None of that goes on here in Georgia for Teachers! That is why each county is paid differently, among other things…

GEORGIA IS NOT A UNION STATE. Let me guess, you are a product of the Georgia Educational System…An ASSOCIATION IS NOT A UNION. OMG and you wonder why you’re behind? I don’t!

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@Texas Pete: -11^2 = -121, NOT 121 as AWJ stated. (-11)^2 = 121, AWJ.

I would like to ask what the graduation requirements are for other states. Last time I looked, GA requires more math and science than many other states. Our requirements are so (too) high for many students who otherwise would graduate under lesser requirements like in other states. Just saying…

Suggestions to improve graduation rate:
1) stop inclusion of SpEd students more needy than LD.
2) get rid of the middle school concept and return to a junior high model.
3) restructure to be K-3, 4-7, 8-9, 10-12.
4) stop ALL social promotion.
5) (this is my favorite one) require that students graduate from high school on time in order to qualify for earning minimum wage. If you don’t graduate, then your future employer can basically pay you anything they want. and no welfare, wic, or meidcaid unless you graduate.
6) drop the child tax credit and send added income to schools to pay for 3) above, and to buy resources said children use, instead of expecting teachers to keep buying supplies.

Finally, red state = dead state.

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@ John
The article answers your question, so clearly you were educated here in Georgia and most likely Atlanta Public. Most people flock here to take the jobs that Georgia graduates are incapable of obtaining. The underlying main idea of this article is that with low graduation rates Georgians will be unable to get higher paying jobs, obtain and keep a strong workforce, and most of all control violence. We all know that most violent acts are because of a lack of education, so please most of the comments where people are defending the education system just admit and realize that the system is wrecked and a long way from being fixed. We need for the federal government to fall back and let individuals with educational background and parents help shape and reform our American education.

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Maureen, the liberal ideas used in education (teachers losing classroom discipline, elevation of child’s self-esteem over actual learning, social promotions to not hurt kids’ feelings, etc) have been disastrous for ALL of America, not just GA. Sorry I admittedly wasn’t clear on that.

Most of America agrees with me, seeing how only 5% of America thinks traditional public schools provide an ‘excellent’ education.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156974/private-schools-top-marks-educating-children.aspx

I’d love for someone to prove to me that just throwing more money at this problem will improve it. That too is the liberal ideology for problem-solving. That and More Gov’t Involvement are Liberal Mantras.

It’s why you NO Crowders hated Amendment 1 and Charter schools, your nonsensical “We are in favor of charter schools…no, really – we swear!” protestations aside. Liberals hate accountability and competition and favor the safe, non-threatening entitlement environment that a gov’t agency — or union — provides.

How many charter schools closed during the horrible CHI Teacher Strike? How many charter school teachers turned their back on their children to protest for more theft of public tax $$ for no improvement in performance? The answer’s the same: Zero.

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a look at some of the comments here tell the story and exactly whats wrong with Georgia…blaming BLACKS OR HISPANICS OR PRESIDENT OBAMA ..WHEN THE REAL PEOPLE TO BLAME IS THE PEOPLE HERE THEY CONTINUE TO PUT IN OFFICE… THE NATHAN DEALS,THE SONNY PERDUES and the i got mind you better get yours crowd..meanwhile georgia continues its freefall in just about every catagory ..we cant let go of the race issue in that backwards state called Georgia were find as long as black men are carrying a football in their hands on a crisp fall evening at sanford stadium for our saturday afternoon entertainment but other then that thats as far as it goes..i,m fortunate to have left georgia and moved to Seattle,washington where my kids were educated..its a blue state and the schools are awesome and way,way,way ahead of the ones in georgia and our kids all graduated from THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON..race and football play to much of a part in educating all gods kids in Georgia and the south until you get rid of that Georgia will be looking up to North carolina ,washington state oregon and all other progrssive states

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Maureen…..Here are some facts. Georgia is one of the most attractive states for Americans to relocate. Unfortunately , blacks and hispanics do not do well in our state. The lower graduation rates are primarily because most of the Hispanics are newly arrived to Georgia from Mexico. The lower black scores are because Georgia and Atlanta has a large population of poor blacks compared to the Northeast.

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I agree with God Bless the Teacher–not all states have the same requirements. The 4 years of math and science is an obstacle for the special ed students. We had more special ed students graduating when a technical diploma was available. Also, students who move here from other states say that 65 is a passing grade in the state they came from. Here in Georgia, students must have 70 or above to pass the class.

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“God Bless The Teacher”, to say that your ideas are absurd is an understatement. I’ve been teaching in GA for 12 years, and I’m sorry, but you’re just out of touch with reality in this state. I honestly don’t even know where to begin with your drivel. Red state = dead state???? Are you 12?

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mountain man posted, “Why do we care how many students we graduate?”

Society’s moral obligation to children, especially the poorest ones, aside, it’s simple economics. The dropout crisis is the equivalent of a permanent recession (Tony Miller, USDOE). On the average, a high school graduate in Georgia earns more than $8,000 annually than a dropout. Dropouts will earn $200K less than high school graduates and over $800,000 less than college graduates in their lifetimes. 60,600 GA students did not graduate from HS in 2011. Lost lifetime earnings for them will total $7.8 billion. Georgia’s Gross State Product would increase by $337 million if just half of students dropping out of high school graduate.

Crime may not pay, but we do sure fund the consequences. Kids who don’t graduate from high school frequently turn to crime. It costs approximately $24,000 annually to incarcerate an inmate, compared to about $8,000 a year to educate a high schooler. High school dropouts commit about 75% of crimes in the U.S. 40% of state prison inmates dropped out of high school.

Other social issues are strongly correlated with dropout rates. Dropouts make up nearly half the heads of American households on welfare. In the United States, there are over 1.3 million youth ages 8-18 who are family caregivers to disabled, ill or aging relatives. Dropping out to care for a disabled or ill relative is a silent epidemic in American high schools.

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Unfortunately , blacks and hispanics do not do well in our state.

Yup no doubt………… the “white ” redneck is abundant here, and the good old boy network is in full swing………… just look under the roof of the capitol, and see what the good old Republican boys are up too !

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Here in Georgia, students must have 70 or above to pass the class.

It’s been that way, at least since I started to school, in the very early 1960’s.

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@Maureen,

How many states used the 5 year cohort rate vs the 4 year cohort rate GA used this last time? Might that be some of the difference.

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I know what we should do, pray for better scores. Just like we did for rain. god is up there and he will blast, oops, bless us. Problem with this red state are the idiots that populate this state and have their head in the sand on education, health care and human rights. The state of georgia and all these republican idiots should be ashamed. Let us pray or better yet buy a gun.

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I wish they would use a 5 year cohort. Georgia requires 23 credits to graduate–that leaves a very slim margin for error. Many special ed students do graduate within 5 years. It seems very unfair to count them as dropouts when they worked so hard and refused to give up.

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Re: GA vs the surrounding Southern states: Do they have vocational tracks? I would think that if Georgia reinstated theirs, our grad rates would go up. As it stands now, kids with less aptitude or interest do not graduate, since there is so little else available but college prep. Ms. Downey, do you know if our neighbors offer a vocational high school diploma?

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We all know why………..and we can’t talk about it. We all know why that is too.

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its funny to watch the trolls til at the union windmill which is a non issue in Georgia.

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they whys are easy, if you are willing to accept them:

-a state legislature who has chosen to treat educators as an enemy instead of an ally, denigrate the profession and are refusing their legal responsibility to education Georgians (Fish camps don’t count)

-a state populace who values football wins above graduation rates.

-inept and corrupt BOEs which the state refuses to address.

-a state populace more concerned with racial politics than education

-disinterested parents

-non existent morale of educators

-inept and corrupt principals, superintendents, PTAs

-teaching evolution is “lies from the pit of hell” mindsets

-a state populace more interested in red vs blue BS instead of education of Georgians

-brain drain of educational professionals

-no vocational tracks

just for starters.

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Red states lead the way. . . .to the bottom of the list. . . .when it come to education.

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And our race to the bottom continues, unabated. Anyone here remember when this formerly great State was the shining, progressive leader the rest of the region aspired to emulate?

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Interesting, the state pours millions into free state preK. The state has all-day kindergarten. But somehow, the kids have no desire to graduate. Could the answer be ???? The kids are burnt out? PreK is no longer play-based follow the leader style. Today’s preK is all work, in our area from 8:30 – 2PM. The Kindergarten kids are learning how to write sentences. In my grandson’s K class, there sadly were kids who were struggling to make the circles and straight lines needed for writing. Guess sentences are priority, regardless of the child’s developmental level. His school is SO academic, with primary focus on literacy. Science and social studies share a 2 hour instruction during the week. I taught the Reggio method. FYI — you CAN wrap science, social studies, and even basic history all into a literacy lesson. Georgia and most of the United States pubic schools fail to realize literacy should not be a separate subject taught over 2 1/2 hours a day, but one that is intertwined in the other disciplines. We are now home schooling. The oldest is a 3 rd grader and hated school, she says it is all blah blah blah b-o-r-i-n-g. The K boy had trouble sitting all morning with just reading activities. (and recess only at 1:30 for 20 minutes). They are both now excelling, and look forward to doing their school work.

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My Mom had only a 6th grade education. My Dad finished 8th grade. My Dad made minimum wage working in a textile mill all his life and we did the food stamp thing and Salvation Army Christmas, etc. so we qualified as “dirt poor”. Yet when I and my brother and sister STARTED 1st grade (before there were head start, public kindergarden, etc) we could each read, write, count, and do simple math. Mom read to us avery day before bed and taught us everything she could with her limited education. We all graduated high school on time with 2 of us in the “National Honor Society”. PARENTS are the most critical factor in my humble opinion.

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As long as you keep threatening kids with testing, there is going to be a portion of them that run for their lives at the first opportunity they get (upon turning age 16).

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As long as the people of GA continue to blame black people and the Yankees (in their speech-”liberals”) for their demise instead of looking at real solutions for their problems, we will continue to be at the bottom. Spread love, not hatred and have a blessed day.

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When are we going to stop blaming everyone else and point the finger where it belongs – the PARENTS. They are ultimately responsible for their children. The government is NOT responsible for ensuring the kids go to school. The government is not responsible for ensuring they do their homework. The government is not responsible for their poor eating habits and nutrition. The government is not responsible for ensuring they get off the couch and play outside. The government is not responsible for raising these children. Their parents are.

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Oh yeh! GOP to blame the poor graduation rate? Is Atlanta mayor Kasim belongRepublican Party?

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@ Roberta

As a kid who went through GA schooling I can safely say around high school maybe even parts of middle school I became burned out.

Plus certain classes just weren’t fun like the only Science I’m truly interested in is Astronomy and possibly Biology other than that I don’t care for Chemistry it’s cool, but not my cup of tea.

Same thing with the English classes after having it so much it got boring although I was glad to read certain books.

History was my favorite subject never had what I considered a terrible history teacher, and then just learning how people got about way back when day after day was just awesome.

Math again up to a certain point I stop caring about it. Because again it was tedious and boring.

I bet most kids would love it if you incorporate a hands-on style compared to staring at you(teachers) or just staring into space or out a window(that’s what I use to do when I was bored).

Most fun I ever had in schooling period came either of field trips(which didn’t exist in high school) or doing something hands-on cause I got excited about it, and not listening to a teacher the entire class period.

As for field trips in my high school we didn’t get to go on any because you had to be part of a club or something, but really I do miss those things cause I learned a lot. Plus they were good memories as well.

Hell if it wasn’t for field trips I would have never known about Lord of the Rings way back in my 6th grade year.

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“Here in Georgia, students must have 70 or above to pass the class.”

So what? If they fail are they held back and have to repeat the grade (or even the class)? NO!

If they fail the now-non-existent GHSGT, what happens? Do they apply for a variance and get a diploma anyway?

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High schools seem to be the focus of what’s wrong in this situation. Do the other higher ranked states have a better system of student accountability in the lower grades? Do they simply allow local districts to have “promotion/retention guidelines”? As I’ve stated more than many a time on here, social promotion of kids through the middle grades is killing us. When kids reach a level where they cannot succeed, then they will likely entertain the notion of dropping out when they become of age.

How do we expect kids who haven’t passed a math course since the 5th or 6th grade to succeed in high school?

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Dr. Monica Henson @ 9:20 pm

All fine and dandy to make these observations, but HOW do you make a student who has no interest in learning stay and graduate? How do you make a mother who is strung out on dope make herself get up and get her child ready for the school bus in the morning? How do you make that 13-year-old who is hanging with the gang value education? How do you get that 9th-grader who reads and does math on a 2nd grade leve (because he/she has been socially promoted) up to speed? You should be able to quote the differences in income to a student and they should WANT to stay in school.

As I said, you can lead a horse to water, but…

Build more prisons.

BTW, I doubt that more than 2% of all drop-outs are taking care of “ill or disabled family members”.

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“I am willing to bet that many of our so-called dropouts actually do try to go out and do something else, such as GED, and many do work as apprentices for minimum wage in low-demand jobs, eventually to enroll in technical schools at a “non-traditional” age to further their skills and pay. ”

You are probably correct. I have seen statistics that say 90% of our 25-year-olds have a high school diploma or a GED. So from 18 – 25, 23% of our youth has either managed to graduate or gone back and picked up a GED. I wish I could find hard data on what percentage were GEDs.

Some (especially the English-impaired) just go to work in unskilled labor (used loosely) where a high school education or GED is not required (roofing, for example). They could also pick Vidalia onions.

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Unreal! I wake up, and all you morons are tossing around silly political ideas as the cause of this. Again, LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s our two, large minority groups that are forming the backbone of this 67%! Gawd! How can anyone look at those number and not talk about the obvious source of the dropout crisis in GA????????????

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For someone who has taught for 25 year and wants to claim that it is always someone else’ fault for poor education:
“To (sic) many administrators…”
It is “too” many, not “to” many…
So sad.

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Dixie, I teach in the state, and your .42 cents, blame the administrators drivel is crap. I have never seen a school with 10 to 13 administrators! At least you got #1 correct. The problem with GA’s schools: demographics, culture, and politics. It’s really that simple . . . . . . . . . cuz.

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Irrational dad. Go ahead, bury your head in the sand and ignore the numbers presented in this article. Moron.

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The numbers a incredibly lopsided, but as a “logical dad”, I’ll simply ignore them and pretend demographics, culture, ethnicity, and race have no part to play in this. Pathetic.

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Well here’s a thought, take out the cities of Atlanta, Columbus & Savanah and see what the rate would be ???

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Only 14 states require a graduation exam. Georgia, Nevada, and New Mexico are among those 13 (they also, according to this article, are doing the worst job). Tennessee, with its great graduation rate, does not require students to take a graduation exam. How about doing a little research, AJC? I bet if we started handing out diplomas like candy bars our grad rate would be 86%, too!

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If they could do away with standardized testing and actually teach us for the future at least that’s how it felt in elementary school. I think we’d be getting somewhere at least.

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@ EChild

I’m really curious what district you teach in. let people know so they can try their luck in applying there. your experience flies in the face of nearly every other educator in Georgia.

unless you are either a-an admin yourself b-teach at a private school or c-perhaps are not what you claim

no matter, if you provide the district you teach in, we can research it and verify your claim

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comforting to know we have teachers out there who resort so quickly to name calling and insults.

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bootney farnsworth, read the thread carefully. You should be thrilled to have an honest teacher posting on here. Ray, I teach an EOCT course, and that test motivates both the students and myself. It also provides real data as to whether or not I’m doing my job. Please speak before you say things like, “they could do away with standardized testing”. That is moronic at best. Please provide a better method of gauging effectiveness of schools, teachers, and students?

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Better and effective way is to figure out if the teacher can teach for one thing not by taking standardized tests, but monitoring them.

Doctors have it right go to school 4 years of medical education, but afterwards they go into intense internships for sometimes at least 3 years or more.

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Lousy Teachers+Bad Parents=Failing Kids
Great Teachers+Concern Parents=Kids that Graduate
YOU DO THE MATH!

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Simply put you can read all the books in the world about driving a car does it mean you can drive NOPE!

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sorry, caveat

don’t want to get some people’s undies in a bunch

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Yeah, then I guess you need the 13 administrators to other moronic post claimed. Or, you could just test the kids to see how they and their teacher are doing.

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Our school has a 97% pass rate on the GHSGT writing test; it’s a joke. The EOCT’s on the other hand are becoming more relevant and accurate in their gauging. I guess we can just cut out the SAT too while we’re at it.

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The BIG problem is that GA schools don’t prepare the kids in Middle School for High School. Every Middle School should at least expect 8th graders to perform on a 9th-10th grade level! Why are we so scared to challenge our kids?

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I’m still waiting for commenter Rod Johnson to come back and tell us where the union ‘boss’ is hiding so I can find out what my ‘union dues’ are funding.

/facepalm/

How on our evolved Earth have folks (ie – Republicans) like Chip Rogers (newly minted leader of the Obama conspiracy theorists club) managed to convince so many folks that Georgia has a teacher’s union? And I find it ironic that all this pearl clutching about our education system being hampered by liberal ideologies…is in a state that has Republican leadership from top to bottom.

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@ Ray

understand. there people in front of classrooms, but few who are actually teachers. there is potential ample evidence in this thread.

anyone who has been in education any real length of time knows the problem with standardized tests are they make assumptions which may or may not bear out in real life.

what kind of students do you have? what are the issues in their lives? did they have decent teachers before you got them? at the end of the day, we are dealing with young people, not bricks.

even then, it makes a workable if inaccurate comparison. no matter how good a bricklayer you are, if the bricks you have been given are flawed, you can only do so much with them. and if you blindly
attempt to build regardless, the structure will eventually collapse.

just ask the White Star line about what happens when you ignore warnings from your workers about inferior materials, pay them poorly, and insist on forging ahead with the two.

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part of the problem is the whole middle school concept. while it wasn’t as sexy as “middle school”, the junior high concept worked much better.

problem is, educating kids in not the priority in education anymore. hasn’t been for some time

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I’m waiting for any of you to logically refute my points regarding the real problems with GA’s schools (read the thread), and provide a real alternative to standardized testing.

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@ Echild

LOL or ROTFLMAO. your choice.

I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

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You can’t come up with a better way to gauge the effectiveness of schools than standardized testing. There is no better, more efficient way. Sometimes little facts are very inconvenient for the idealist loons.

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I disagree that Georgia’s low graduation rate is due to our special needs or ESOL population. Other states have special education as well and seem to be able to educate their students to graduation.

Using the Fordham report you cited Maureen, Indiana has 172,095 students with disabilities (total state population of 6.5 million), comparable to Georgia’s 177,070 (total state population of 9.8 million). However, Indiana is in the top 5 states in the new national graduation report and Georgia is in the bottom 5.

Let’s go shopping for a real reason for Georgia’s poor performance. I would wage a bet that it has more to do with long history of class and racial discrimination than special education. Georgia has a long way to go to take off their rose-colored glasses and admit that they still host an antebellum-style social set up. Ask anybody who is a member at one of the top country clubs if they even know the name of their local public school. The upper crust are not participating in the general level society here. It’s an antiquated social system that serves many quite well, and others, not so well.

There’s so much more to fix here than simply laying the blame on special ed and ESOL students and then turning a blind eye to the reality that is Georgia.

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if I polled a certain subsection of posters here, I could create a stat which shows 100 % of alleged teachers who dodge tough questions think its OK to call people who disagree with them..

its not reflective of the realities of the community here, but it says what I want it to say.

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@ kim,

anyone who has been here three weeks knows Georgia values football over education.
its not good, but it IS.

and that fetish cuts across the red/blue lines so many here like to draw.

simple fact is, we have a ton of problems and there is no one size fits all solution. and we KNOW that- we just choose to ignore it

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You obviously didn’t read the article did you. Look at the numbers!!!!!! I love how you idealists ignore reality. And when the problem looks you straight in the face, addressing it makes you a . . . . . . . raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist. Pathetic.

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Just in case you all can’t stand to look at reality in the face, here is is for you.
Graduation for the following groups in GA:

Asians: 79 percent
Black students: 60 percent
Hispanic: 58 percent
Whites: 76 percent

Oh, but if you point out this reality, you are raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist. There is a 16 percentage point spread between black and whites, and you all can’t admit the problem(s), at their core, are cultural and political? Are Oz and Candy Land real too?

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Kim, did anyone say we should get rid of anybody?

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EVERY GA student can get a high school education.
There is no “plantation” system here. The graduation rates for WHITES is only 76%.
24% of all white kids drop out of high school.
That is an epidemic and a tragedy.
The country club kids don’t attend public schools. They attend private schools.
So, the “plantation” system is just a tired old excuse.
Georgia is waaaay behind the rest of the nation.
All the graduation rates are a tragedy and an injustice to the children.

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@Kim – with all due respect, the ‘out of the way’ comment was sarcasm.

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Pride and Joy, at least 76% is . . . . . . . passing. How do you explain the massive gap between Whites and Asians vs. Black and Hispanics (Mexicans)? Also, within GA, do you all have any idea what percentage of our total population is made up of both Blacks and Mexicans? Address these questions and the percentages that accompany them, and then you may (maaaaaaaaaaaaaay) see the problem for what it really is.

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Kimberly, whatever you do, don’t challenge cultural norms that are literally keeping entire groups of people down. And even more important, don’t vote to reform social programs that have broken up families and created a mass culture of lethargy. I’m a public school teacher, and I voted for the charter school amendment for the exact reasons you stated. APS spends over 13k per pupil a year (almost twice the per-pupil expenditures of my county), and what do they have to show for it? The groups that benefit the most from charter schools don’t like them . . . . . . . . they are brainwashed beyond belief.

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@ kim

please check the dictionary for sarcasm

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Here’s the thing you’re speaking for an entire race of people which is complete BS.

It’s like me saying since White Guy A is racist that means every other white guy is racist.

Plus education is valued around here the problem isn’t even that. People don’t mind learning what they do mind is learning BS that won’t help them in the long run, or that don’t fall into one their interests.

Again using the Doctor or even someone trying to be one as an example do you think they care who the first president of the U.S is?

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@Kimberly: Very truthful comment. You hit the nail on the head.

“… ideas for change are not welcome when the change sought is transformation a system that would rather send their children into the prison industrial complex than to successful paths such as college, honorable trades and a life of inquisitive, critical thinking.”

If Georgia did that, then who would serve the luncheons at the country clubs?

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is the noisy child a racist? doubt it. most certainly a bigot, but that’s a different topic.
just an simple arrogant troll trying to pass itself off as educated.

sad thing is, the child has half a point, even blind squirrels find occasional acorns.

there is indeed a segment of the black community which does not put any value on education. same in the hispanic community. same as the white community same as very community.

until the black community -or any other community- itself addresses this issue, nothing is gonna change. this is why I’ve always been a big proponent of education being voluntary after elementary school.

what the child does, as children often do, is over exaggerate and paint with overly broad brushes looking for simple answers which fit its worldview.

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@ bootney farnsworth

That I wouldn’t mind, but then again as I said before one thing that was lost between elementary and the rest of schooling grades 6-12 was a sense of fun and excitement at least for many of us that’s what happened.

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@ ray,

that’s what comes from standardized teaching for standardized testing. and, frankly, poor teachers.

the system compels teaching to the lowest common denominator instead of pushing and innovating.

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@ RCB

Let me make that example clear.

They know who the first president is, but do they give a (insert explicit word here) after say first grade.

Plus what I really mean in the long run is that someone trying to go to school being a doctor might not like history all that much so why would you make them take of course this is unless their learning history of medicine and what not. As for everything else why does a doctor want to learn about Thomas Jefferson and his life how does that help them in the medical field?

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Man, I leave this comment thread for a few hours and it (as usual) devolves into issues of race. (We are in Georgia, after all.) Look, can we all just agree on this:

Resolved: EChild does not like “blacks” or “mexicans.”

All in favor?

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I am answering EChild’s earnest questions:
Echild asks “Pride and Joy, at least 76% is . . . . . . . passing. How do you explain the massive gap between Whites and Asians vs. Black and Hispanics (Mexicans)?”
My explanation in the gaps is the values of a particular sub-culture.
Asians highly value education. They spend their time on traditional, academic education because they value it. You will see no Asian star football players and basket ball players in GA high schools. You see academic success.
A culture’s value is easily determined by simply counting the amount of time engaged in that activity.
The more time one spends doing an activity, the more likely it is that one becomes good at it.
Look at the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. Chock full of Asians. Why? They value classic musical instruction. Every Asian parent I know has their child in violin or piano lessons and none of them are on the football team.
Asians also do not speak English as their first language, yet they excel over all other English-speaking groups. This is an inconvenient truth. It doesn’t jive with the ESOL rationale as to why Latinos don’t succeed in schools. It’s not the language. It’s the culture. The culture values physical labor and sports like soccer.
Whites value education and football. The more they value football, the less time they have for education.
One look at the school featured in this article gives a vivid explanation for poor educational outcomes. In theory, the school mentioned in this blog values four things as evidenced by their coat of arms. Athletics is one of four. Yet, one look at their school web site’s pictures, tells the other truth. Out of fourteen pictures revolving on the school web site, EIGHT are football pictures. Six are of everything else.
All people take pictures of things that are important to them, that’s why we Americans have lots of vacation photos. Time with family is important but…what’s important in our GA schools?
FOOTBALL. FOOTBALL. FOOTBALL.
Unless we are Asian-Georgians. Then it’s academics.
It’s no secret but one that is sacred to many Georgians who don’t want to admit it.
Football in Georgia is bigger than everything else, including God.

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My point: Preventing the citizens from an education that will teach them to think for themselves is generally not that good for the Republican leadership. Georgia is stuck in a time warp.

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Susan, GA’s politics reflect it’s ethnic and racial reality. Stop with the “time warp” crap. If you don’t like GA’s politics, leave.

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As far as my culture(blacks/African Americans) is concerned we do value education. It’s just that in certain areas like rural counties compared to urbanized cities is probably different.

I do know for a fact my family does value education very highly even those located in rural areas like Burke County for example.

Only thing is like with some of my relatives one that is nearby my current age he didn’t care for college at first. Because he wanted to do farm/factory/other type work like that. He did eventually go to a tech school, but that’s one way our values differ because I wanted to do work in the Computer field.

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Ahhhh, see, there is a big difference between a generalization, which is what the numbers in this article present, and your personal situation, Ray. If you can’t make that distinction between you and generalities, then you shouldn’t be reading statistics. And of course you don’t want to address the blatant issue presented in this article . . . . . . .. your Black!

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@ bootney farnsworth….all prozac taken by you, apparently….
@ EChild….so sad…..and this is why our country is the way it is!

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And for anyone reading who actually thinks bootney farnsworth has anything worthwhile or somewhat intelligent to say, these are her/his words, “I’ve always been a big proponent of education being voluntary after elementary school”. Idiotic doesn’t even begin to cut it! Let’s get rid of child labor laws too if we aren’t going to put our kids in school until they are legal adults.

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The enormous socio-economic difference is a given. We should be asking why the difference exists, and what, if anything, are we doing to perpetuate or better it. 70% of black children being raised by single moms as the #1 cause of low economic status in black communities comes to mind, but I’ll leave it at that without getting too political.

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@Pete ” In too many cases, the parents of the kids who contribute to this woeful statistic are unwilling or unable to take the steps necessary to get their children into an alternative environment that would give the student an advantage.”

Please speak up about these seemingly easy “steps” that one should take. Move to East Cobb? Charter Schools? HB251 transfer?

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funny how the child is getting more shrill as its persona has been shredded.
the tantrum should follow anytime now

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@ mountain

“How about reading to your child every night and doing homework with them (if they are actually given homework”.

requires parents to give a damn about what goes on in their kids lives. not exactly a given these days

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easy steps

-read to your children
-do homework with them
-talk to them. discuss the issues of the day.
-take them to the library, community theater, music performances
-let them see YOU read.
-meet with their teachers constantly.
-volunteer at their school.
-let them know you believe in them and reinforce you know they can do amazing things.

most parents have almost no clue how much giving an obvious damn can do for children.
and how little it takes to do this.

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@ Lexi

I have made similar points many times and rarely have been treated with anything other than spirited but honest discourse.

when children throw thinly veiled bigoted remarks and insults out like homecoming queens throw kisses, said children marginalize themselves.

brutally put, we, mainstream society can’t force the parts of society who don’t value education to suddenly do so. we can prompt them, offer perks, instill punishments, but we can’t make them care.
and until they do, all we can realistically do is prop up the ones who try.

its not optimistic, but it is what it is.

why do so few people really succeed in life? they put in the work most people won’t.

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Lexi, you are a “racist”, and agreeing with me makes you one (they have nothing else to fall back on). bootney farnsworth, you believe children should decide if they want to continue their educations after elementary, and I’m the child? You are the one who posted that nonsense, not me. The pot is calling the kettle black as night.

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And to someone’s concern about comparison between states…I believe all states use the same method now….hence the drop in GA’s rates

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Old timer, if it were up to bootney farnsworth, that compulsory education up to the age of 18 would be reduced to age 12. Her amazing insight into child psychology makes her an expert! Lunatic fringe . . . . . . . .

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Good questions, Quiet Observer: Let’s see,

Are Georgia’s graduation requirements too stringent? No. Not at all. But we should be offering a selection of pathways to a successful adult life.

Are students entering high school unprepared to succeed? Yes. Quite often. Something is happening in elementary school. We aren’t hammering the basics. Reading, writing and basic math are somehow falling by the wayside in favor of some new kind of broader ‘understanding’.

Do all students need or more importantly want to be prepared for an academic college experience? No. Do all students NEED a college-prep diploma? No. We are leaving a lot of young people in the lurch by not preparing them for a decent job and giving them the ability to manage and pay for their own future families.

How many of those dropouts earn a GED and have a job? Not as many as end up in jail – at least in DeKalb. There are over 3,500 prisoners in the DeKalb county jail. It’s something like the third largest jail east of the Mississippi. Now, THAT”s shameful!

How many special education students fail to graduate on our single diploma system and why? Most fail to graduate. Again, the college-prep curriculum is not appropriate. But they are also entitled to a happy life and access to a decent job along with the opportunity to feel as though they are contributing their fair share to their community.

Why are Hispanic children not graduating and what supports do they need to graduate? This is a racial issue as bad or worse than the one experienced by African-Americans. Probably worse, as they have very few advocates. African-American leaders (at least in DeKalb) are the worst offenders of discrimination against Hispanics… check out how many Hispanic administrators they employ… probably 1%. And there are more Hispanics than whites in the school system!

How many students are dropping out for spurious reasons? See the comment about the jail. We have serious poverty issues to address as well as access to healthcare and counseling. Children should not be punished for their parents ignorance. We place too much of the educational responsibility on parents. Teachers can teach any child. We just have to provide the proper environment: small groups and discipline.

How many students are dropping out for economic reasons? Same answer.

How many students are dropping out due to drugs or criminal activity? Same answer.

How many students dropout from learning burnout? I personally know several very gifted (male) students who didn’t drop out, but left the public school system for private school in high school. If our leadership at the state would study in detail how some of our best private schools are doing things, they would learn quite a lot.

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Well, Susan, I guess it just “takes a village”, aka, “big government”.

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Prof mentions socio-economic status. Prof, EDUCATION DETERMINES socio-economic status. Socio-economic status DOES NOT determine education.
In one generation or less, ANY individual can dramatically change their socio-economic status through education. In these United States, an education is easy to get. The poorest of the poor are guaranteed an adequate education and guaranteed a boat-load of expensive social programs to help them along the way.
I know.
I WAS that socio-econimically disadvantaged kid. I am not anymore. I didn’t have involved parents. Mine were abusive and neglected me. I still carry a lot of pain but I don’t carry the socio-economic status and neither do my kids. I credit two teachers and a nurse for my success and my own efforts.
Anyone using socio-economic status as an excuse for poor education has a poor education because everyone should know that Frederick Douglas was a slave, a member of the lowest socio-economic status on planet earth, yet he became educated. He spoke and wrote better two hundred years ago than most Atlanta Public School teachers do today.

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Read the thread illogical dad. I responded to both your points a number of posts ago (see the post directed to bootney farnsworth as to why I’m not going to provide my personal information). In other words, again, read the thread. And if dislike our minorities, why do I live and teach on the south side of Atlanta, and why have I been doing it for over a decade? Again, the realities of the communities down here are something you simply can’t stomach. But hey, I guess calling me a bigot and a racist from wherever you live is the easy way out.

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I think poster “doesn’t matter” doesn’t realize the profound impact his her statement unintentionally made…
I am posting it again for all of us to let it sink in…”as somebody that plays on a sports team and sees many people move to Georgia and stay with host families to play on our team…”
High school students are moving to Georgia..to play football. Where are they moving from?
Southern states.
And Southern states are the bottom of the bottom of the education barrel.
Imagine sending your child to live with another family so they can what? Play football, an unhealthy activity wrongly called a “sport.”
For what purpose?
What possible good can sending your kid to live with another family to play football do for any child?
Has any Southern parent sent their child to another state to live with another family so they could get a better education?
Nah. Not by a long shot.
Football is a cancer on Georgia’s children.
The players are downright OBESE.
Look at the lineman — just a wall of blubber.
Head concussions and death due to heat stroke — for what?
Machismo.
The insipid worship of obese chauvinists.
It disgusts me.

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@doesn’t matter…You did say play sports didn’t you? He was probably given his grades along with the rest of those “players.” And note to E Child…your Asian population didn’t fair that well either…79 percent? Really? Shouldn’t they at least be in the low 90s according to your reasoning? Association brings about assimilation. The “I don’t care about education” attitude runs across the board in Georgia, no matter your ethnicity.

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So, EChild, you’re a coward. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

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I can’t read all of the comments – sorry — but I’ve posted what I’m about to post before — I’ve been shaking my head over the numbers for a while — so I’ll share it again — at the DSW “blog” readers lambasted me and critisized my numbers but I promise you I’m within a few kids of right because I was shocked as it happened and it was my eldest child’s class — the numbers mattered to me: He left the top (or one of the top) DCSS middle schools with 2 full teams of kids (120 per team) and 2 3/4 teams (70 per team) — 380 — to roll ino one of the top DCSS high schools. The school received on AYP and somehow they wound up with 525 freshman. We could never get an explanattion as to where all the “extra” 9th graders really came from… some were transfers in. We were told that most were “returning” from private schools and magnet (but we also “lost” some to private school from 8th grade).. By mid-year (2007 I think this was), I wandered into the copy room and saw charts on the wall (this is after mid-year grades) — there were lists of the “grades” for each class — 9th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade and 12th grade — the class sizes shrunk by year. The “success” rate for each grade improved (e.g. the 12 grade had a higher pass rate than the 9th grade) — I was absolutely astounded that for 9th grade — not one “discipline” had more than half the kids “passing” — the fail rate was at least 50% … this is for the “basics” — math, english, biology, history but also for gym and spanish and art and music. Sometimes it was at 44% and other times it was at 60% (the fail rate, that is) — because these were graphs, you couldn’t tell if it was the same kid failing all classes or one kid failing one class — and for some things, if a kid wasn’t proficient in English, it would be hard to pass certain other subjects and the school had a high concentration of non-native English speakers… but this was still astounding. By this point the principal finally explained that part of the ’surge’ in 9th grade numbers were ‘froshmores’ — kids who never made it out of the 9th grade …. Push forward to 11th grade: we pulled our son out. He was kid number 304 when he left — by that time the 525 had dropped to 304. The class began senior year at 303 — they graduated 275 — the group of 525 (380 in 8th grade) – in one of the best (ranked in the top 300 or so nationally) high schools in the state — only graduated 275 of 525 of the kids who began in that class. My friends and I can “account” for about 50 of the kids who weren’t “in the mx” — a good handful did what we did and pulled private — one died on an overdose, one graduated early — but what about all of the others? No one seemed to care… When we pulled our younger kids out at the start of 9th grade at least they asked where they went … I don’t remember being asked what we did with the oldest (by administration).

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Oh, and thank you for the compliment. It is a respectable career, and I actually enjoy my job. I also really enjoyed the entire week I just got off for Thanksgiving.

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“illogical dad”, how about you post your place of employment on here? There is no way I’m going to tell you which school or county I teach in. I already told you I teach on the south side in the metro area, and that is all you will know. Giving more info than that online is no cowardice, it’s simple wisdom.

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Ouch!

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The brilliant economist and writer, Thomas Sowell, wrote a terrific column, published today at townhall.com, about the scientific debate between Arthur Jensen, who believed intelligence was largely determined by genetics, and James Flynn, who believed intelligence could be juiced by nurture. Jenner was smeared as a racist. Flynn credited Jenner’s inquiry with prompting Flynn to conduct his own research. Thomas Sowell, a black, cited this debate, as opposed to screeching, as an example of the way legitimate science is advanced. I agree.

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My sister-in-law still insist that her children are receiving an excellent education here in a public school in Georgia!! Keep drinking the kool-aid. Maybe some are????

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By the way, I teach in a school that is 80% black “taxpayer”, and I’ve been teaching at predominantly mexican and black schools my whole career.

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@E Child, good for you! That doesn’t mean that you like the students or that you have their best interest in mind. YOU DON’T NEED TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN. Go get a job in your area…if they will have you. Why don’t you teach people that you feel can be successful. The best areas hire the best teachers.

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@E Child you need to get out more…Again, I am not from Georgia…Have you ever heard of Beethoven, Bach, or Tchaikovsky? Have you ever heard of Vincent Van Gogh, Michaelangelo, Norman Rockwell? Have you ever been to the symphony, opera, ballet? How many languages do you speak? How many countries have you lived in? How many times have you left the state of Georgia? Do you know anything about geography, physics, chemistry, astronomy, logic, philosophy? Are you aware of any new and exciting scientific inventions, explorations? Do you know anything about fracking, the Super Collider, the Constitution of either the United States or any other country? Do you know what the Magna Carta is or where it originated? Do you know anything about any other culture except to try and denigrate them to make yourself feel better? Please stop listening to the music of your general student population and get a real education. This is only the tip of the iceberg of what I learned about and know about…Maybe I need to teach you, because your vocabulary, worldview and knowlege base is sorely lacking. If you need to be exposed to a real world, globally focused education, please feel free to contact me. It is evident by your posts that you need to be taught a few things.

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Ummm, why are you in GA? How is your state of birth even relevant? Again, did I say you specifically were part of that 16% lag in the black/white graduation rate? You don’t need to prove anything to me. Prove it to the 60% who aren’t graduating on time.

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Coming into GA and assuming you understand the culture and makeup of this state certainly won’t get you anywhere, especially when you have a racial chip on your shoulder and something to prove to everyone.

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And by “caring for,” I don’t mean sitting at home watching TV. They go to work full time to put food on the table and keep the lights on.

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Great way to avoid my entire point(s), which you have done from the beginning in a very cowardly manner. Now go to bed instead of saying “goodnight” over and over.

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Actually, I was educated by nuns. And those nuns didn’t care one lick what your home life was like or how well educated your parents were or the color of your skin (we had a lot of Hispanic migrant families in our school and every single one graduated high school on time). Today’s teachers need to and often do have that same attitude. Children come to them and they educate them from where they are. They don’t send home volumes of work for parents to tend to after a full day’s work. They don’t blame the failure of the students on their parents or their home lives. They simply put the tasks on the table and then expect students to perform – with the guidance and instruction of a good teacher.

I find it terrifying that people like EChild are not only (so they say) teachers – but that they are teachers of the poor, the oppressed, the struggling – and they have the audacity to be so cruel and callous as to call out those very children’s parents, home life and access to extra help and care (or lack thereof) as a reason for the teacher’s own failure.

Sister St. Rita would have never uttered words like the ones that I’ve read written by the person calling him or herself “EChild”.

GOOD teachers care deeply about their students – they love them and they do everything in their power to bring them into the world of enlightenment. We – as a society – need to support and embrace teachers in their efforts by providing the tools, the discipline, the environment and the financial support required to do the job right.

The alternative is more prisons – more poverty – more disparity – more anger. That is not a path that *most* of us care to walk.

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Teacher and taxpayer:

November 27th, 2012
8:28 pm
“You are the only teacher that [sic] I know that [sic] actually got some “rest” last week.” It maybe that some folks only dream about your accomplishments, but others were taught that the quoted sentence requires the personal pronoun “who.”

You write that you are a “nationally recognized expert on literature.” Which nation?

Shouldn’t this blog be about ideas, rather than ad hominem attacks?

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It occurred to me that one of the best ways to make sure high schoolers graduate in 4 years is to not allow 8th graders to move into high school until they have mastered 8th grade skills. Social promotion again. How can a student master the high school material if they are still trying to learn to read and write and do arithmetic?

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Heh…I thought Georgia’s motto was, “At least we’re not Mississippi.”

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ways to improve GA education: (1) only use curriculum that has been proven as successful elsewhere and don’t tinker with it — maybe common core will fix this issue — can’t make any headway with curriculum being changed every 3rd year; (2) use teaching standards that are working elsewhere — e.g. in a state ranked in the top 10 instead of using our own and then use what’s working there after they become teachers — for all things — pay, development, training, curriculum, autonomy, etc.; (3) stop testing all the time — test at the beginning and end and let the teachers teach as we allow with other professionals; (4) don’t allow social promotion and place new kids according to ability — language and otherwise — not according to age like was done 50 years ago — do it for their best interests and not to make them feel good; (5) get discipline back into the classroom (okay not whips and beatings but there need to be consequences for bad behavior); and (6) put the money in from the bottom up — I’ve concluded that the only way to do this is with vouchers — even if restricted to public schools — but putting money in at the top means that it is staying mostly at the top in administration — it needs to get back — by force — into the classroom for the benefit of the children.

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Thank you @Dr. Monica Henson, for calling attention to the issue of students as caregivers. I was talking to a teacher family member last week about that and the extreme growth in enrollment at online charters and she mentioned the possibility that entire families might enroll all their kids using the oldest as caregiver while both parents work. That is a troubling prospect given they don’t have the social/guidance staff infrastructure to handle that as an online school. Definitely an issue that needs to be addressed in helping students graduate.

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uh>

not to beat a dead horse; BUT GA does a one track graduation system

remember when you where in HS and there was some kids that could not do pre-Alegbra, well guess what there are still some kids that can NOT do pre-algebra but we are forcing them through Pre-Cal

duh.

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It is very disconcerting for people to assume that vocational and technical trades don’t require a high school education. My family is in the construction business and often hire carpenters. I’ve heard the stories over and over again how difficult it is to hire skilled tradesmen and tradeswomen.
For example, when laying brick on a window ledge, the hired so-called tradesman does not know what a 45 degree angle is or how to create one in the correct direction to allow water to run away from the window instead of towards it.
We don’t need two educational systems in Georgia; we NEED UNIONS. Unions provide the proper apprentice>journeyman>craftsman>skilled craftsman job skills and training.
No one high school can properly teach all the vocational and technical trades and educate the college-bound crowd.
I was one of three high school students out of a class of 150 to receive a merit scholarship. Based on my ACT score, my so-called “guidance counselor” stopped me in the hall one day and said I received a scholarship. That is the ENTIRE discussion and I never had a discussion with him other than that one. He was completely focused on votech training.
Sadly, my freshman class in the same high school had 400 stendents. By senior year, more than TWO-THIRDS of the class had dropped out of high school even though there was a big vo-tech training.
For everyone who cannot do work at the college level, we NEED UNIONS to ensure those individuals have jobs and to ensure we citizens have reliable, safe, skilled tradesmen and tradeswomen to wire our homes, plumb our homes, repair our cars and so on.

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Buzz, you concentrate on getting your sissy little girl football team off of probation and into a bowl game with a winning record………and furthermore, give Flagboy a kiss for me!! Go Dawgs!

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Thanks — Pride & Joy — and yeah, I agree with the points about tracking — and most of the half of the freshmen who were “lost” from my oldest’s freshman class from his “top” public high school left long before they reached age 23 so I don’t really believe that’s what’s going on. Personally, (don’t throw darts…) that unions once served a great purpose — but you only have to look at what happened to Eastern Airlines and at Hostess to fully appreciate that they’ve, perhaps, outlived their usefulness…. I do think we need some apprenticeship programs in place — in the schools or elsewhere…. once upon a time there was a very solid way for ‘kids’ and ‘teens’ (who were really treated as adults — and who had — and still have — adult harmonies — ) to learn real lift adult, productive skills with which they could earn livings as carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, etc. Society still needs these trained workers but we don’t seem to be giving kids this “path” to success — this is what, once upon a time, formed our middle class. In GA — especially Atlanta — we seem to have a “college,” “McDonalds” or “prison” option for our kids and I don’t think this is wise or tenable in the long run… Where I grew up — up north — we had terrific VoTech programs, beginning in 9th grade (I think kids should, perhaps be peeled off beginning in middle school once it’s very clear they are not on grade level) to learn some skill …. this would not preclude college — but could provide skills — many of these skills could lead to college-degrees with the interest but could lead to small business skilled jobs if not…. better than prison or Micky Ds.

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@ Ole Guy. How can teachers organize unions in Georgia when it’s against the law?

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What if schools were accountable for knowing, and growing, student engagement-which ultimately drives everything related to school success? What is being done now is not working to identify students at risk of dropping out. We need a new paradigm-STUDENT ENGAGEMENT! The bottom line is any student who does not graduate is a travesty as earning a high school diploma is a life-changing event! We can give our at-risk students a voice by tapping into the reasons “why” a student becomes disengaged and provide interventions to support students to reengage or increase engagement to pursue an educational goal.
I have been a teacher for 28 years and I’ve developed the Scale of Student Engagement/Disengagement (SOS ED), which empowers students to self-identify their level of school engagement by responding to items that are scored and converted into an engagement score. In a university research study, the SOS ED was reliable and valid in identifying student engagement levels. Please check out the video explaining the SOS ED and how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1BbJQRyoGY and visit http://www.scaleofstudentengagement.com Please email me at: lfrickey@scaleofstudentengagement.com for more information.

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