Atlanta lawmaker to push parent trigger bill in January. Cites North Atlanta High as an example of why it’s needed.

Given the sad state of the Atlanta School Systems,I believe the Parent Trigger Law to be necessary!

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So, after running against Roy for passing such a law, now the Republicans thinks its a good idea! Another example of a lost decade!

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@ Lee- that aboutf sums it up right there.

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This is again an example of people thinking they are owed something they are not. Parents are not owed “more control” over their child’s education. Read the law, it states that each child be given “a free and appropriate” education. That is not the best education money can possibly buy. That is not choice of education or boutique schools that cater to individual interests or political or reliigious leanings. All you get under the law is free and appropriate. If you want more, you need to pay for it or suppliment on your own (that is what I do) There is school choice in this state, they are called private schools. Some are very expensive, others are not. If you want free, what you get is appropriate.

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Please read the analysis of the parent trigger law in the one place that it was instituted. It ultimately has 55 parents ( or there abouts) deciding the fate of the school and there was no legal recourse to change back once it was put in place. The divisions in school communities are on record. It is straight out of the ALEC playbook so I am sure this kind,magnanimous and forward thinking Republican is just doing his civic duty. That is appeases the outside of Georgia puppet masters called ALEC is no mistake. Follow the money. So convenient to shake up a functional school in a powerful area as a cautionary tale of what could happen and voila. charters look better and so does this damnable Parent Trigger. ALEC is laughing all the way to bank for playing Georgia electorate for all it is worth. The parent trigger has NEVER been successfully implemented and you want to experiment with high schools who need community not divisions.
Parent trigger is a terrible idea.
I and a group of our influential friends think that our local library hours are terrible, so we will set up a petition to get the hours that we want, majority rules.
Some friends and I want to have our school run the way we see fit, no testing schedules ( sounds great), no controversial subjects like evolution and nothing that interferes with the development of the best dang sports team you ever saw. It is what the parents want and technically still legal, but is it morally right to do. To bend a school around the minds of some instead of educated the whole.
Issues of how NAHS mess was handled should be fought and it should be defended against.
Chasing after this failed and divisive law as a panacea is not going to prevent this sweeping in and taking over of a school. This time it will be the parents doing this, with legal means, but how many self respecting, solid foundation teachers will stand behind that. The influence of parents to set policy in schools like this will corrupt the educational process and the powers that be will hold power but to detriment to the actual school community.
Shifting the players means that power grabs that have just been experienced can still occur. It is the parents this time instead of higher up administrators but the teachers and students will suffer. And only the teachers really get to walk away. Without their pensions, without their salaries and without their benefits but they can leave, the students are still sitting ducks for a take over.

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Not sure why my longer post didn”t make it through moderation but the link between the Parent Trigger and the national ALEC organization that wants to dismantle public schools by setting legislation in place is already established.http://www.prwatch.org/node/11763.
Maureen- please can the AJC do an investigation in how our elected officials are being bankrolled by ALEC to do their bidding. That outside of Georgia money and influence is evident- the Charter Bill alone should be chilling when the amount of money is being bandied about. These elected officials are suppose to do their best for their citizens but how can they when they are the puppets of ALEC.

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What Georgia needs is comprehensive school reform that better addresses failing schools and adequate state funding. Both go hand-in-hand, and we must have a law that works and doesn’t provide an escape clause for lawmakers when the economy and politics get tough. After all, both sides agree that public schools will work with more local input and adequate resources, so let’s see if any leaders want to tackle the real issues. While it started out ok, QBE has become a big joke and teachers are taking the brunt of criticizism for anything that goes wrong in a school. What we have is a reflection of what the legislature and governor have given—inadequate funding and political sniping. Adding another law like Rep. Lindsey proposes is ridiculous.

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“school reform that better addresses failing schools and adequate state funding. Both go hand-in-hand,”

So why is it that the worst “failing schools” spend the most per student? It is NOT about the amount of money spent, it is about the quality of the student and of the parent – those are the determining factors.

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I wonder how a “Parent Trigger Law” would play out in DeKalb. I know a lot of the vocal critics of DeKalb come from high performing schools which wouldn’t be impacted by such a law. And the idea of a system-wide trigger law is, while attractive in the abstract, too difficult to implement in reality.

So…curious to see and hear what others from DeKalb have to say about such an idea.

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Also, the reason our educational system in GA is in such a mess is because of the “government” both state and federal. They need to talk to the people who are on the front lines (teachers) to see what some of the solutions might be before jumping feet first into the fire and starting an out of control blaze.

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mountain man If you could put down your whirligig and popsicle for me a minute, I’m going to mentor you some. You have some good ideas, some good intuitions, and you have excellent real world personal experience. I accept you into my mentoring program and here, I’ll even award you a fellowship. congratulations.

Now, you’ve got a nice little agenda, a “framework” as they call it. You have your subjects of concern figured out. Good work. But it seems like you are visiting the Wailing Wall, (you know, like this one – http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/Obama%20Wailing%20Wall.jpg ) with your questions. Well, there is no Santa Claus to give you an answer. What are you planning on doing with all of these non-grade level kids when you remove them from schools? Take them to the bowling alley? Exactly how do you plan on restoring discipline? I used to sometimes wonder if restoring “the paddle” is a good idea. I endured “the paddle” and lived to tell about it, but apparently world wide it is not a good idea, and here in the USA, it seems like many make a kluge of implementing things. I mean, no one even knows how to drive. There’s no driver training required to get a license. People camp out in the left lane on the highway like they’re setting up a lemonade stand and you be bamboozled if you think you’re going around their donkey cart. Anyway, mountain man, if you want to write a tract called Mountain Man’s Education Reform Method, I’ll publish it for you. And let us not forget that even Kurt Vonnegut had little hand drawn diagrams and stuff in his novels.

For Immediate Release 7 Nov 2012 – Georgia DOE will be test piloting a new $1.7 million value-centric program to serve all citizens of Georgia to bring opportunity and equality through the purchase of 25 Kia mini-vans that will be driven throughout the state in the left lane of Georgia highways at 50 mph 24 hours a day 365 days of the year. The effect of this exciting innovation will bring opportunity to all Georgians as we “Come Together” and will make opportunity for many of the 4000 displaced Georgia teachers who wish to participate in the “Stroll in the Beautiful State of Georgia” ™. Alternative fuels are being developed at UGA by throwing any and all library books more than five years old and dog-eared textbooks into a big hopper with soybean oil. We at the DOE are looking for donations of retired police cars for administrators to drive in who be cruising the state to make sure the “Stroll in the Park” drivers keep their speed at 50 mph +/- 2%. We are already receiving rave reviews from truckers and Porsche drivers who welcome this relaxed unity and chance to take a “Stroll in the Park.” disclaimer: This initiative would not be possible without the hard work of persons in China and India and we sincerely thank you for making all of the things we use every day.

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Wow! Republicans turning to Hollywood for an example of what they want to do. Well, not really Hollywood. More like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that put a couple million into promoting the movie. Which is probably more than the movie made. And Michelle Rhee who was somehow able to show it near the conventions several weeks before it’s theatrical release. The Parent Trigger law allows the union to be busted and the school to become a charter school.
This is all a very planned attack on public schools. Changing the Georgia Constitution to allow Charter Schools. Michelle Rhee. This movie. Parent Trigger bill.

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The residents of Georgia should take a few minutes to research how badly this has gone in California. I know in one school, the paid workers of a for-profit charter went door to door to garner signatures from parents and, by using misleading and vague language, was able to get to the magic 51% they needed. When the parents who had signed heard that it meant their public school was going to be put into the hands of a for-profit charter school, they asked the judge at the hearing to rescind their signatures from the petition-he refused and those parents were left feeling duped by the very same company they were now supposed to trust to run their school. Please remember, that once the trigger law happens, it cannot be undone and the school will forever be in the hands of a for-profit charter system. By the way, I always thought that when a traditional public school failed to meet AYP, they would be put on probation and receive help to bring it up to par. If that didn’t work, the admin and teachers would be replaced. Is that still not the case? The only thing that the charter opponents may not like in this scenario is that they don’t get to push for the segregation of the students they are hoping for.

It seems like there are some in our legislature and the puppets there to do the bidding of ALEC. The parents/teachers/communities need to come together and tell them NO MORE. Start funding our schools as stated by QBE and look for research-based reform that WILL work in our schools. Not these fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants reforms that have never been proven to show that they work

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The legislators think that the “local” control would be best. I know, with certainty, that the current situation (at least in Dekalb) is not working (it’s a disaster and that’s testing it with “kid gloves”). That being said, I have a real tough time processing how our DCSS local high school could be a “charter system” or how the parents could successfully take it over in the way envisioned here. I could definitely see it being a charter school.. that’s different. But some of this requires too much agreement & coordination and that’s not present in my “neck of the woods” as bad as the county really is …

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Good idea to look at case studies. In the Harvard video about New Orleans, the key point / conclusion seems to be that state audit oversight is critical. If you do not have effective from-the-state audit / oversight, you really do end up with a propaganda-laden chicken coop on your hands. Here’s a description of what happened with the charterization of New Orleans: http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/11/03/new-ajc-analysis-fewer-poor-kids-attend-charter-schools-in-metro-area-does-that-matter-to-you/?cp=all#comment-238532

Looks to me like charterization can provide innovation but the state has to keep an audit-eye on things like conditions for labor (teachers). I suggest the state would do best to not interfere in the teaching operations of charter schools. As a teacher, I do not want the state micromanaging my classroom.

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Social Promotion – a perfect example of letting our focus drift from education to “social engineering”. We don’t want poor Johnny to feel bad about being the only 7-year-old in a class of 5-year-olds, so we go ahead and advance him up where he doesn’t belong. So he is lost when the teacher is teaching subject matter beyond his grade level. Then the teacher has to take time from teaching the rest of the class to try to “catch him up”. Lose-lose situation.

My idea (never will be passed) is to test students for grade level at the end of the school year (not 20 days before). Passing students advance to the next grade. Failing students are required to attend a “summer school” – full time through the summer (assuming we still have one). Teachers go to a full-year schedule and are paid more like full-time professionals. Classes in the sumer are low-student-teacher ratio and are intensive to “catch the student up”. At the end of summer school, the student is retested and if he/she fails then, is retained. NO EXCEPTIONS!

By 16 if the student wants to quit – LET THEM. Increase our funding for state prisons.

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“The trigger law allows parents to take over a failing school and reopen it as an independent charter if they collect signatures from the majority of families”.

Folks, believe me, you don’t want this. You would then have very incompetent administrators being replaced by a group of people (for profit companies) who are least interested and probably less competent to administer a public school. This will completely destroy what’s left of Georgia’s already failing public school system. We need to tell the USDOE to keep “our” money that comes back to us with all kinds of regulations and tell the State of Georgia to do the same thing and turn all our school systems back to local control, without the regulations that the USDOE hangs around our neck, so the people will have the power to do what needs to be done and educate our children the way they should be educated. This “one size fits all” approach is not working, has never worked and will never work.

You new folks who have come along have taken a very, very good public school system and have just about destroyed it. You should be so proud.

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A Conservative Voice They might be billionaires, but the Koch brothers know how to run a paper mill. Who says they don’t know how to run a school system?

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APS North Atlanta already has a trigger on the students they value at their school.

Those students are flagged at the middle school level (Sutton) and separated into learning groups triggering the focus of their educational needs student by student. The PARENTS at Northside APS have been INVOLVED in the underground system of creating a “class system” to segregate their children in the schools in Northside APS long before Beverly Hall. Under the HALL administration the parents of these Northside schools could manipulate the Principals and downtown administration with their political strong arm if their child did not receive grades like they expected.

Northside APS serves the leftover students that can’t get into the private schools in the neighborhood.

Parents in this community do not “participate” any more in their child’s education anymore than those at lower performing schools. They just have the means to hire tutors or provide “other” services like after school care to give their children extra help.

ONLY an HANDFUL of parents actually volunteer at the Northside APS schools. These parents are the insiders and know who to talk to if something needs to becomes askew and needs addressed. The majority of AFFLUENT parents in this community are too busy to volunteer at their child’s school or get involved.

AFFLUENT children come to school…mostly smart…due to the environment they were exposed to prior to attending school. They come READY to learn in a structured environment. OFTEN TIMES CRAVING FOR SOME STRUCTURE…SINCE THEY HAVE NOT HAD ANY AT HOME. In some of the most elite families …often times, a nanny has raised the child in the early stages.

The TRIGGER is this…if everyone wants to send their child to THE BEST PUBLIC SCHOOL…a VOUCHER SYSTEM…or whatever…THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM.

Why not look for qualified ADMINISTRATORS that model the best skills to lead their schools.
AND I don’t mean ADMINISTRATORS that are at high preforming (scoring) schools.

The administrator in these HIGH PERFORMING NORTHSIDE APS institutions do not have to do much. There faculty is not necessarily above average. From experience I can tell you an APS Principal at these higher performing school rates a teacher after she’s sat back to waited to see how many complaining parents knock on her office door. If the teacher has few complaints and can “hold the fort” a teacher is consider highly effective.

A serious INVOLVED ADMINISTRATOR is not a figure head that manipulates test scores, student/ teacher attendance, and negotiates with a weakened faculty to change report card/ grades to appease complaining parents.

I believe an involved ADMINISTRATOR would be found in a lower achieving school…an average environment where children of all backgrounds are challenged and held accountable for their ACTUAL GRADES. An environment where parents are NOT SO involved… for “OTHER” reasons.

The true illusion of SUCCESS at APS Northside schools…the children come ready…and when the appropriate environment is provided…the learning starts to take place no matter the teacher.

The children in APS NORTHSIDE can survive and can STILL SUCCEED on standardized tests in a POOR LEARNING ENVIRONMENT. Believe me…PARENTS in these
APS NORTHSIDE schools will tell you which teachers are POOR and noneffective.

The problem is…the POOR NONEFFECTIVE teachers …are given the students of PARENTS that don’t know the difference. These parents are just happy their child attends the school… believing learning takes place by osmosis.(which it does)

Administrators at NORTHSIDE APS institutions are considered SUPERIOR and EFFECTIVE…only if they are able to juggle the PARENTS who insist their children are given the TOP TEACHERS on staff. Those TOP TEACHERS are considered effective if they too, join in with the manipulation of test scores/ report card grades of the under performing high achieving students of the affluent and connected parents.

Teachers at these APS NORTHSIDE SCHOOLS are ranked according to the PARENTS…
(those manipulating what they want by any means)

The Principal VALUES the accommodating teachers that keep the APS Northside PARENTS from rocking the boat.

If a teacher at a APS NORTHSIDE school does not understand the politics …and does not play the PRINCIPAL’S game…they are given the “appropriate” children with mediocre parents that stay out the unethical manipulation of their child’s education.

APS should model their APPROPRIATE PUBLIC EDUCATION on their schools that have administrators that are actually involved in producing an environment where ALL CHILDREN ARE receiving adequate opportunities to achieve without manipulating parents that have a strong arm with the PRINCIPAL.

Basically…these Northside APS Principals have an easier job when it comes to involvement in the actual education of the students.

The quality APS ADMINISTRATORS truly INVOLVED …and actually CARING about the schools they have been assigned…know which PRINCIPALS are sitting on a throne and holding court to the parents.

It appears…like others… MyGrant was sitting on the APS NORTHSIDE THRONE. ( KING OF STUDENT NORTHSIDE MANIPULATION)

How quickly the APS NORTHISIDE PARENTS have flip flopped their loyalty to a new leader once MyGrant was dethroned!

The “QUALITY” DOWNTOWN APS ADMINISTRATORS know which APS Principals are doing the actual work involved in providing a substantial appropriate education to ALL students.
They know the difference between “holding court”…and creating an environment where learning is achievable by ALL without manipulating the results.

The TRIGGER…APS NORTHSIDE involved PARENTS already hold a gun to the PRINCIPAL’S HEAD.

They already have greater control over their children’s education and manipulate the APS Northside school’s faculty and the downtown administrators with a flexible strong arm in their attempts to improve their child’s achievement by any means.

The INVOLVED NORTHSIDE PTA PARENTS have the TRIGGER cocked…THEY are READY to SHOW the new APS Northside High School WHO is in charge of this dog and pony show.

If he does not do what they want…they will ban together to TAKE OVER the school.

I am sure they will ATTEMPT the same rhetoric with the WHITE HOUSE after the election is OVER, too.

The TRIGGER is cocked and ready…

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@pride and joy please re-read it’s not about a power play…it’s about taking over a failing school and unfortunately NAHS has been failing for the last 5-6 years, so you would have expected a push for this based on that failure and not because some parents are upset because they were not included on an administrative decision

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I can’t seem to close a “bold” html tag today.

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Ima you are really getting me today. The reason we “take the phone away” is because we follow the law. Now, I am the one who has “taken the phone away” when for the second time the student has the phone out and on and in their hands under their desk. So the parents comes to the school and raises all kinds of trouble look all official and desperate and stuff. So then months later the principal puts the bad vibe on me for “not getting along with parents” or somesuch. I tell you what, if I never see any one of these squishy politically-based principals in my life, that will be just fine with me.

Allow me to comment that, upon reflection, the two principals I actually liked and respected and enjoyed working for, both of them were run off by the administration crooks who insist on keeping their own type in place, the ones who walk around like twinkle-toes up-to-something. I’m not overstating it either.

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Amazedpeople outside of Atlanta could care less about “downtown politics.” Arbitrary rule over schools and corrupted government school management is widespread across the state. And in case you haven’t noticed, Georgia is really like two states. The AJC stops reporting at the dotted line that is Macon. And below Macon they sure could care less about anything north of there. Georgia is a deceptively big state. You should drive it some time. Ask people about “Atlanta” and they’ll look at you like you said “Utah.”

Out in Texas they have a joke about someone trying to buy tickets for the Olympics in Atlanta and the sales person on the telephone telling them, “New Mexico, Old Mexico, we don’t sell tickets outside of the United States.”

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@Private Citizen

November 5th, 2012
9:03 am

A Conservative Voice They might be billionaires, but the Koch brothers know how to run a paper mill. Who says they don’t know how to run a school system?

And, on the other hand, Private Citizen, who is to say “they do”? And, you know what else?…….you’re extremely “long winded”, a “Blowhard” if you please……you have your opinion, I, and others have theirs…….who’s to say whose are correct?…..your’s????? Hmmmmm…….

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“So then months later the principal puts the bad vibe on me for “not getting along with parents” or somesuch.”

A clear case of ADMINISTRATION not supporting their teachers. When the teacher is clearly in the right (taking away a cell phone is pretty clear), then the administrators should back the teacher to kingdom come. This is a failure of the DISCIPLINE system. Another failure of ADMINISTRATION. What should be done is that every phone confiscated should be forwarded to the principal’s office to examine and determine if any texts were sent/answered during class time. The parent should have to come to school to get a lesson in following the rules and asked whether they will see to it that it does not happen again. Second time gets the phone confiscated until the end of the year.

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A clear case of ADMINISTRATION not supporting their teachers.

What else is new? mountain man, they didn’t get rid of 4000 teachers by being nice.

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looking at watch – whup 5:30 am – better get finished up here – almost late for work.

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Given the corrosively authoritarian environment within public schools, the variation in individual teacher effectiveness is probably less significant than the bad effects of the system within which they work. Bad environments lead to bad results. When only “super teachers” can succeed, the the bigger problem is more likely to be with the system than with the other teachers.

Change the system for the better and you ought to change overall teacher performance for the better, as well, provided that you begin with teachers who haven’t been at that location before.

Trying to change an existing environment is far harder and takes far longer than creating a new environment, so the idea of charter schools if properly directed isn’t bad.

On the other hand, if the replacement charter school begins with the same old nasty culture, changing out administrators and teachers little will change nothing but faces and the effort will have been a waste of time.

The issue for “pithed” public schools must be: What do the parents want the new culture to be? So far, there’s been little precise discussion of where we want the environment within schools to go. The KIPP charters have been relatively successful because the environmental issues have been thought through.

As a start toward massive change, the state legislature might consider razing all Georgia’s Schools of Education — our pedaogical hearts of darkness.

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This movement is caused by educrat delusion. In their minds, they are educational experts who know, and do, what is best for their clients – their students. Parents who disagree, are dissatisfied, or become visibly involved are irresponsible, infantilizing meddlers.

In fact, teachers and schools for PARENTS. This is clear in private schools. Of course, the educators in private schools are skilled professionals who want and do what is best for their students, but the private schools themselves live and die by being chosen, or not, by parents to educate their children. In this respect, while they are mostly hands off, parents have the decisive and final word over whether the private school their children attend is getting the job done.

The prospect of this model of responsibility spilling into public schools scares the bleep out of educrats who
1) have deluded themselves into thinking that their students’ parents are anything other than their (the school’s) clients, and
2) have gotten used to having their own way – free to try whatever ineffectual instructional cure du jour suits them.

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Oh no. I dropped the R word. It’s not on the “standards.” Ugh-oh. I’m in trouble now.

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Again, here is an issue that Rep. Lindsey and NONE of the other Republicans will address:

You claim to be the party of “the rule of law” and “personal responsibility” Yet can you point to a single piece of legislation that gives teachers direct, tangible support in matter of discipline, so that teachers can impart to students there are real consequences for not obeying “the rule of law” in the classroom and not taking “personal responsibility” for academics and behavior?

Why Rep. Lindsey, are so many Georgia schools completely out of control in terms of discipline, when the ruling party in Georgia for a decade has been the party of “the rule of law” and “personal responsibility”

We know (because conservative pundits have told us LOL) that the liberals are pantywaists who look to promulgate the nanny state. But why are the Republican doing their own best impression of do gooder-bedwetters when it comes to addressing discipline?

Is there a Republican out there who can address this?

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@ Private Citizen. In many posts on different “Get Schooled” blogs, you claim to be a presently hired teacher, and include many details to show you are as you claim. Yet you post very long, digressive essays very often during the day, which you could not possibly do if you actually were a teacher.

Just on this thread so far, you’ve posted at: 8:03 am, 8:18 am, 8:40 am, 8:59 am, 9:03 am, 9:10 am, 9:35 am, 9:37 am, 9:52 am, 10:01 am, 10:06 am,10:11 am,10:18 am, 10:20 am, 10:27 am, 10:58 am, and 11:05 am. You’re probably posting something while I’m writing this.

I scroll past your name now, of course, but something weird seems to be going on. Seems compulsive to want to have your name and opinions on everything out there.

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Just on this thread so far, you’ve posted at: 8:03 am, 8:18 am, 8:40 am, 8:59 am, 9:03 am, 9:10 am, 9:35 am, 9:37 am, 9:52 am, 10:01 am, 10:06 am,10:11 am,10:18 am, 10:20 am, 10:27 am, 10:58 am, and 11:05 am. You’re probably posting something while I’m writing this.

Maybe he’s just outsourcing his posts to an out of state company…you know, just like Georgia is going to do when this amendment passes LOL

From the newswire:

The Sarah Palin Onward Christian Soldiers Science Academy (team logo, a caveman riding a pterodactyl) announces that, since Sarah Palin can now see Russia from her home, the school is now qualified to offer an International Baccalaureate program.

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FYI, I’ll try and tone it down. You’re right. Thank you.

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Beverly Don’t be joking about the IB program. They do good work. They’re probably the only separate curriculum that penetrated the government schools in Georgia and provided a safety zone and buffer between the teachers (who are then allowed to do productive work without harassment) and the state rituals to stand on one toe and sing the song. No one has mentioned the damage done to the relationship between IB and the state of Georgia due to Mr. Davis’s karate chop but I would think those in the U. S. IB office would be thinking “What’s the point of applying any effort or integrity toward this?” On some days, I might telephone them and ask, but I’ve got other things to do today. It could be that IB does not fit in with charterization, that IB is built on a prior model. I have a high opinion, even appreciation of their work, and know of several examples of IB students who have been well-prepared for college, no small thing. Credit where credit is due.

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Entitlement Society Point taken. Got it. Thank you.

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When Hollywood spends money on a propaganda film (Won’t Back Down), you know there is money to be made. The Trigger Law allows parents to overthrow the government for the benefit of for-profit charters. Citizens! Don’t do their dirty work! The only way to give parents total control and to rid our schools of corruption and fraud is to pass a Constitutional amendment to overturn the compulsory education law. WAKE UP!

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Maureen, Thanks!

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Don’t we in GA already have the abbility to convert a tradditional school to a chareter school?

http://archives.gadoe.org/DMGetDocument.aspx/TITLE%2020%20Charter%20Schools%20Act%20of%201998%20as%20Amended%20July%201%202009.pdf?p=6CC6799F8C1371F6EAA2AF24ACB0BEBC5871519FA348829658DA33163C3678F8&Type=D

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ELMom
There are a number of different types of charters.
Conversion Charter Schools – traditional public schools that opt to become charters

Note: There is no path for a traditional public school to become a state chartered school.

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Boy, he must have been next in line with his hand out to ALEC. Tomorrow is vote day for Jan Jones’ forced and disingeuous amendment. Now that she has done their bidding (win or lose) , I guess Lindsey is ready to send up the next one. These folks don’t give a darn about what is good for kids. They sure are in bed with ALEC model legislation though. Anything to privatize and profitize.

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“Where is the unlimited supply of excellent teachers to staff these magical places? ”

They all left the current “traditional” schools because of unbearable working conditions. Hopefully, they would like working in a school environment which supports teachers (sort of like how teachers gravitate to private schools).

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Maureen, I found some information myself on a study of Ohio schools:

http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/EJ714746.pdf

The difference between attendance at top 10% schools and bottom 10% schools was up to 12% – 95% to 83%. If a school year is 180 days long, then the AVERAGE attendance of 83% means the student missed 31 days. Again, this is the AVERAGE, so some missed a lot more. How can that NOT affect the performance of the school??? This should be the FIRST thing that administrators look at to improve test scores. Forget about blaming teachers – it is time we fired some administrators!!!

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“Have to weigh in here that private schools have higher teacher turnover than public schools.”

Hmmm. Have to think about that one. Wonder how the rates of turnover compare between either charters or private schools vs. “failing” or “at-risk” schools?

My first thought is that good teachers at “failing” or “at-risk” schools are the worst pressured by the “blame the teacher” menatlity, and they are the first to leave for the first better job available – charters or private schools. However, these schools (I believe) pay less than traditional schools. When an opening comes about in a “good” traditional school (think Pope High School in East Cobb) then they move over to it and stay there for the rest of their career.

Sound plausible?

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You think the parent trigger law works one way, but it really does not! Beware!

This kind of law does not actually give parents the right to take over their school. It only appears to. The devil that is in the details (and is being found out the hard way) actually diminishes parental control.

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@3schoolkids…
This law is all about the for profit charter companies moving in.

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@AlreadySheared “Of course, the educators in private schools are skilled professionals who want and do what is best for their students…”

Sheared, I am curious as to why you think “private” schools are staffed by some elite group of teachers who graduated from some “special” teaching training program that somehow made them more “skilled,” more “professional” and more caring than their public school counterparts. As far as I know, there are no “special” educational training programs that cater to teachers destined for the private schools verses the public schools. We all come from the same pool of teachers. Or course, private schools sometimes hire non-certified teachers, but that does not make those individuals any more “professional” ..unless you think that educational training programs have some required class on how to be ‘unprofessional’ or some such thing. Are there poor teachers in public schools. Yes. they also exist in private schools. I could tell a few tales.

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So if you have your groove on and your materials and you’ve taught a certain play a few times and tuned it up and improved the activities and you’ve built up good sources and materials and then you up and get moved to another area, all of the work you’ve done is just eliminated. You stick it all in boxes and store it and marshall on and start over building supplies for the new assignment. You’re not asked before hand and you don’t see it coming. Basically, there are schools were proven veteran teachers are getting treated like fast food workers, complete with a time clock. “Grill cook? No! Run the french fry machine! Wait, you’re on the front counter taking orders. Hold on, back to the grill with you.” I think this stuff has ramped up in the last few years. Maybe as the management is both thinning the herd and trying to cover their bases.

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And I clearly recall the day when I realised that both of my subject area colleagues were taking pills prescribed by the doctor for mood/ motivation (i.e. anti-depressants or variant there-of). Well, one of them just gave notice to quit. And I just bet you a dollar that they will stop taking those pills, too. This is one of the most knowledgeable teachers I have ever met anywhere as a colleague, had several difficult and intricate areas of knowledge down “cold” and was able to teach the same in a clear structured manner. This person just “threw in the towel” as the saying goes.

This in interesting. In the UK, for high school teachers, “46 per cent taking antidepressants or facing long lay-offs from school through stress.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/nearly-half-of-teachers-have-suffered-from-mental-illness-6150000.html In the UK, student behavior is causing stress for teachers. In the US, it’s the school management. I’ve seen a teacher cry or have to go to the doctor for long term problems due to the students. Sometimes a teacher has to go to the doctor if they’ve been assaulted by a student, but this is usually pretty minor. It’s not minor when it is due to the adults because it doesn’t happen in a moment, it goes on and on. When a student assaults a teacher, there’s a big response and the student is made accountable. This is not the same when an adult treats teachers in a way to injure them or cause them stress. Just like what that Mr. Davis guy did and then walks off like twinkle-toes and then even returns to the scene of the crime. And then he goes home and sleeps good at night and attends the banquet and probably gets a raise as “an effective problem solver.” You know at least probably some of those people who were marched out of the building are probably feeling like their lives have been wrecked and now have PTSD and this type thing does not resolve quickly. It is an assault that they endured. They’ll probably be having flashbacks when they’re 80.

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TYPO CORRECTION. ” I’ve never seen a teacher cry or have to go to the doctor for long term problems due to the students.”

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@ Private Citizen. You have blogarrhea.

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@I love teaching…
I love putting things in writing. That way I can go back and reread.

I never said that I “think “private” schools are staffed by some elite group of teachers who graduated from some “special” teaching training program that somehow made them more “skilled,” more “professional” and more caring than their public school counterparts. ”

Didn’t say it, didn’t hint at it, didn’t intimate it, didn’t even think it. Why do you think I did?

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Edward Lindsey is proposing this??? Enough said….

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@I love teaching…
With respect to earning parental approval, I did compare public schools unfavorably to private schools as follows: when confronted with dissatisfied parents, a public school can assume the attitude that their educators are experts and as long as they do what they think is best for students, parents should myob. Hence the fierce resistance in this blog to the idea of parent triggers.

If parents, en masse, become dissatisfied with a private school, that school will go out of business. Period. Essentially, every private school in existence lives today, student by student, with parent triggers.

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To repeat and to emphasize: “Governing bodies of maintained schools are legally obliged to establish workplace procedures to deal with matters of staff discipline and capability.”

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The exact same thing as the U. S. charterization movement is occurring in Britain and it is called “Academies.” When GW Bush was setting up charterization in the U. S., Tony Blair was doing the same thing in Britain. The “Criticism of and opposition to the academies scheme” is pretty much the identical arguments as to what is occurring with the U. S. charterization movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_%28England%29#Criticism_of_and_opposition_to_the_academies_scheme

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@I love teaching…
1) Yes, that would help explain it.
2) Based on the comments I have seen on this blog, grade inflation is an issue in our public schools as well.

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Hey Top School
It is a little different when you are on the inside looking out.

I agree with you. You’ve got health care and the kids don’t. It is a little different.

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Make those kids cook on a hotplate in the den. Or put an outdoor kitchen in the back yard gazebo. They might learn something.

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@ Private School

When will the space ship return to pick you up?
Is there a pill you can take in the meantime?
I thought Maureen monitored this site.

YOU SAID…Wonder if you have to (or ever will have to) deal with anything.
I wonder if you ever leave the house? talking off the top of your head. Do you have anyone in the house that can evaluate your condition?

If Maureen can contact you directly …we might be able to send over some help for an intervention.

Send over an ambulance…Honestly…I’ve tried to comprehend but I am not able to process most of what you state.

I think a total lobotomy might be in order.

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Top School, Let me try and make this real clear for you. In Georgia, as well as the rest of the United States, there is no basic system of health care for everyone. Yes, you can get health care is you sign documents and then put yourself in financial jeopardy, gets thousands of dollars in bills for basic services. Full Stop. Do you comprehend and follow me so far? If you have any doubts about this, walk down your street and ask the people at 10 houses or homes if they have health coverage. Likely five of them do not. Maybe you live in some super-professional environment where everyone has the good life. Where I live most of the people do not have health coverage. The girl at the counter of the pet store does not have health care coverage. How do I know this? Because she is telling her worker friend what they just did to her financially when she needed to go see the doctor, basic girl stuff. Full Stop. Are you with me and do you comprehend so far?

Career Georgia government school teachers tend to have health care. They pay about 30% of the cost of it, which is still a lot of money and the state (or somebody) pays the rest. Anyway, teachers (on the “inside”) tend to have health coverage. Many families and students (on the “outside” of the system arrangement) do not. Do you follow me? So yes, if you are on the “inside” and part of the government system, and you are looking “outside” – say, at the girl who works at the pet store “Pets, Inc.” etc. who does not have health coverage, than yes, it is diffierent. And it is different in an important and materials way. You’ll get annual check ups and follow up. She’ll pay $500. for her pap smear out of her $9./hour pay from “Pets, Inc.” That’s more that a week’s pay for some simple medical procedure. God help you if need anything more because you just went bankrupt.

As a government teacher “inside” the system, I found it uncomfortable to work with students and parents who are “outside” of the system of wellness services. I am found it uncomfortable to work with so many of my colleagues who were comfortably middle class due to their government “inside” position and expressed no care or concern whatsoever that they lived in a different caste with very different reality from many of the children and families that they were supposed to “serve.” Now, are you with me so far and do you comprehend what I am expressing to you? If you do not, then I guess that is just the way it is.

There is a saying about travel being the best remedy for bigotry. You should try it some time. It might give you perspective. I am referring to travel outside the United States to the other 99/100 countries that have public health care for all of the citizens, just like roads and water. I suggest you start by going to Brazil. It won’t be too expensive and you would have a good time. While, there you may with to note that all of their citizens, including students, families, and school teachers, can go to the doctor without a hassle and without paying out 2 weeks salary for a basic medical procedure that is part of healthful living. Do you comprehend and follow me? Do you “get it?” You have said “I don’t get it” so I am making effort for you. If you like I can draw some diagrams, scan them and post to a picture site if you would help you to comprehend or otherwise “get” what I am telling you.

As far as when you do not understand something or relate to it, telling people that they need to go to the hospital or insane asylum is calling discrediting your opponent and it is not considered to be ethical. That’s your business, not mine, but you should be informed. You should also be informed that in times of revolution and such, these methods have been used to try and stop dissent. I can understand if you do not like what I say, but you seem to have an issue with free speech and expression and the literally do the “discredit” routine. I really have no point to make, but you should be informed that there is a plentiful history attached to this type of thing. I am think you do not know this, as you seem to shut down quickly and claim non-comprehension. Hey top school, the next time you use your health insurance policy I want you to think of me and half of the people who live on my street.

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Hey Top School, Why don’t you go downtown to the wrong side of Forsyth Street and ask some of those thousands of homeless people milling around down there about who’s “inside” and who’s “outside” and if there is any difference between the two. If you need help getting access to the “outside” go here http://www.meetup.com/atlantavolunteers/events/83497502/

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Maureen,
Durwood is a dear friend of mine….I can send him over to try to figure this out …if you would like???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DhlWaQcOPw&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0va4piKl4Lg&feature=relmfu

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Brevity, like the wording in that charter amendment ballot? -I about fell over cawing when I saw how they wrote it / presented it. I was still laughing in the car as I drove away (from the voting place). No lines where I live! The poll workers outnumber the voters 2 to 1.

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Yes, Mike it is THE WONDERFUL children they are FOCUSED on! What about the many needy?????

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Rep. Lindsey-Where were these same parents when North Atlanta didn’t make AYP 5 years in a row? Where are these same parents now when North Atlanta needs to address its graduation rate?

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