Final stretch: Is charter school amendment about “money versus public schools” or “giving every child an option”?
As election day looms, the AJC examines the emotions and money around the charter school amendment in a Sunday piece. The amendment remains an explosive issue with great interest from both inside and outside the state.
Pro-amendment groups, including national school-choice advocates and for-profit charter school operators, have raised more than $2 million; amendment opponents have collected $123,243, mostly from public school officials, according to an analysis of campaign-finance records by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Please read the entire piece before commenting.
The AJC editorial page came out today in opposition to Amendment One, saying it would be a waste of taxpayer funds to create a new bureaucracy to do what the state board of education can already do. The AJC joined GOP State School Superintendent John Barge in contending that the creation of another layer of state government is wrong when Georgia has slashed billions from school funding over the last few years, leading to larger classes and shorter school years.
Gov. Deal offered an opposing view.
The AJC also looked at charter school enrollment in metro Atlanta and found that the schools have smaller ratios of low-income students. (This link takes you to a blog that discusses the change in the charter school movement, which began to create choices for poor kids trapped in failing schools but now has become a choice vehicle for suburban parents looking for more specialized schooling for their children)
So, there is a lot to read and discuss this weekend.
The ballot language makes no mention of dollars, but billions are at stake. Which is why vast sums are being spent to promote and – to a lesser extent – to oppose the amendment.
With Republican Mitt Romney heavily favored to win Georgia’s presidential contest, the charter school referendum is the local race to watch Tuesday. Pro-amendment forces have mailers, billboards and a television ad campaign extolling educational choice. Opponents are hitting back with a racially-charged radio ad in which The Rev. Joseph Lowery says the proposal would “resegregate our schools.”
Critics say it has sowed confusion. The motto of the pro-amendment side is “Vote YES! for Public Charter Schools,” and the ballot language asks if the state constitution should be amended “to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?” A minister and a teacher sued arguing the language is misleading.
Mike Kwon, a 45-year-old Atlanta architect and martial arts instructor, cast an absentee ballot voted for the amendment but realized his error afterward when he chatted with friends by Facebook. He said he supports charter schools but favors less state involvement, not a new commission.
“I think I was totally hoodwinked by the (ballot) language,” Kwon said.
There are more than 100 charter schools in Georgia and two routes to establish them. Charter school applicants must first apply to the local school board. If the application is rejected, they can appeal to the state Board of Education, which may overrule the local officials. Which body approves the application affects whether a charter school receives local property tax dollars or not. Charters with either type approval receive state funds.
The amendment facing voters would create a third route for approval, an appointed state commission.
The issue has created an unpredictable mix of political alliances that make the outcome tough to predict. Prominent tea party activists have aligned with urban black Democrats and the state’s GOP school superintendent in opposing the amendment. On the flip side, many leading Republicans who frequently tout the virtues of local control are pushing for creation of a state commission that could provide a separate avenue for charter applicants.
It’s a fight that involves a huge pot of public dollars. State and local governments spend $13 billion a year to educate Georgia’s 1.6 million K-12 students. Charter schools are independent public schools that operate free of some state rules as long as they meet performance goals. They’re promoted as an antidote to poor-performing public schools.
The Georgia proposal has attracted dollars from stars in the school-choice movement. Deep-pocketed donors include Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton ($600,000) and StudentsFirst ($250,000), founded by ex-Washington D.C. School Superintendent Michelle Rhee, a leader in the push for teacher accountability.
Some of the large donors backing the amendment have ties to for-profit charter management companies. They include K12 ($100,000), the Herndon, Va-based company that manages cyber charter schools around the country; J.C. Huzienga, ($75,000) who founded Grand Rapids, Mich.-based National Heritage Academies, which manages charter schools including one in Atlanta; and Charter Schools USA ($50,000) in Fort Lauderdale, one of the oldest and largest for-profit operators of charter schools.
Some of the spending will remain secret. A separate effort by Brighter Georgia, a coalition of groups organized by the nonprofit Georgia Charter Schools Association, does not have to disclose its donors or how much it has spent. Brighter Georgia billboards have popped up around Atlanta, and its mailers have blanketed mailboxes. They stop short of asking recipients to vote for the amendment but lay out the benefits of it and of charter schools and look strikingly similar to the campaign mailers.
Bert Brantley, spokesman for Families for Better Public Schools, which has raised and spent the most among the pro-charter groups, said the big donations simply show the breadth of support. “We are very gratified to have such broad support,” he said. “It’s really about giving every child an option.”
Those who oppose the charter amendment say they aren’t surprised by the heavy spending. “This is money versus public schools. It is part of the privatization (of schools) effort. Everybody knows what this is about. It’s about the choice agenda and for-profit companies. There is big money to be made in schools,” Herb Garrett, executive director of the Georgia School Superintendents Association, said.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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115 comments Add your comment
suibne
November 4th, 2012
11:20 am
No. It’s about getting rid of socialism and removing the morons from the front of the class rooms. Public schools are the biggest socialist disaster of all in America. You want to know why we are in a mess? Look at the morons that have run the schools systems for the last fifty years.
suibne
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
11:34 am
Vote NO!
This amendment IS NOT an answer to the problems of which the proponents are complaining.
The proponents get a large majority of their funding from out of state. What does that tell you?
How many Georgia entities fund out of state issues across the country? Those that do have an economic reason to do so. What does that tell you?
The state superintendent of schools is against the amendment & went public against the man who appointed him to his position.What does that tell you?
The amendment duplicates what is already in place as far as an appeals process but slips in a change in the funding mechanism, shifting a state imposed charter to the local county tax digest whose majority does not want it. A stance that runs opposite to the GOP mantra of “local control.” What does that tell you?
Then the governor weighs in making questionable points. He has an unsavory track record. What does that tell you?
What it tells me is that it has NOTHING to do with education and EVERYTHING to do about money.
Beverly Fraud
November 4th, 2012
11:34 am
“It is part of the privatization (of schools) effort. Everybody knows what this is about. It’s about the choice agenda and for-profit companies. There is big money to be made in schools,” Herb Garrett, executive director of the Georgia School Superintendents Association, said.”
Herb Garrett’s organization named Beverly Hall their Superintendent of the Year. To date (correct me if I’m wrong GSSA) they have NOT rescinded the award.
And you claim to have CREDIBILITY??? Really?
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:38 am
“The state superintendent of schools is against the amendment & went public against the man who appointed him to his position.What does that tell you?”
That he, just like the local BOEs, care more about feathering their own nest than about serving their students. They don’t want competition because it might show how ineffective and corrupt the existing system is.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:41 am
If the existing system did not want the competition from charters, they should have worked harder at solving their existing problems rather than trying the latest “politically correct” solution.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
11:42 am
suibne
November 4th, 2012
11:20 am
“Public schools are the biggest socialist disaster of all in America.”
The same socialist entity that educated the masses throughout what is referred to as “The American Century.”
Yes, truly a disaster.
MANGLER
November 4th, 2012
11:48 am
How many of the charter schools get built in troubled neighborhoods or nearby to under perfoming schools? If this was truly about giving parents choice, the charter schools would compete directly with the under perfoming public schools nearby and not located off in the suburbs yet offer none of the infrastructure or accountability that public schools must offer to get students there.
Oh, and the whole issue about being staffed and managed by for-profit companies who show no interest in footing the bill to build a private school yet line up to manage a public school being given public dollars to do so.
MANGLER
November 4th, 2012
11:50 am
suibne:
let’s look at all of the successful and thriving nations that do not provide public education. I’ll start with …
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:52 am
“How many of the charter schools get built in troubled neighborhoods or nearby to under perfoming schools?”
So only troubled neighborhoods and underperforming school parents deserve a choice? The middle class has to leave their kids TRAPPED in existing schools?
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:54 am
If the existing “traditional” school system had tried to solve the issues that I constantly list, there would be NO DEMAND for charter schools and there would be no controversy.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
11:56 am
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:38 am
“That he, just like the local BOEs, care more about feathering their own nest than about serving their students.”
A man who has spent a successful career in education as a teacher and administrator. He is a recipient of numerous education awards from non-aligned entities. His daughter attends public school.
Do you have facts to support your accusation about feathering his nest? Or is it just opinion?
Just to point out my own error, he was elected to his current position, not appointed, my bad.
RSM
November 4th, 2012
12:06 pm
The money always follows the child. It does not matter if it’s for a private school, charter school, home schools or even leaves the county. All of the under performing teachers try using this as a reason to oppose this amendment when they know its not true.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
12:14 pm
“Do you have facts to support your accusation about feathering his nest? Or is it just opinion?”
People do what they do for their own reasons. Of course I don’t have proof of his intentions because they are in his head. It is my opinion.
He was elected to serve his constituents. We will see at the next election if the majority of his constituents belive he is doing that job.
We will see on Wednesday if the majority of Georgians think parents should have more options for choice of a charter school.
If this amendment fails, do you really think this issue will die?
Banderson
November 4th, 2012
12:15 pm
These good corporations just gave $2M to support STATE charter schools (we already have charter schools) because they love our little children. Of course, Sandusky loved children, so you have to be careful about that.
indigo
November 4th, 2012
12:16 pm
Governor Deal is just the latest in a long line of political hacks to occupy that office.
So, keeping that in mind, is this ammendment about helping our children or about money and politics?
You get three guesses. (the first two don’t count)
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
12:17 pm
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
11:52 am
“The middle class has to leave their kids TRAPPED in existing schools?”
In 30+ years of teaching, I have not met an involved parent who has complained of being “trapped.”
I HAVE met some parents who were displeased with the school system because their troublesome student was being disciplined. The first time I met them was after the bottom fell out from under their child, never when an attempt was being made to contact them about the run-ups to the serious situation in which they then found themselves.
I personally have had a student removed from my class because a parent did not want their child exposed to scientific facts that were “…the work of the devil.” I’m sure that parent would have been much better served in a charter school teaching creationism.
However, the overwhelming majority of the parents I come in contact with on a daily basis are quite happy with the education their child is getting in their local public school. This is probably why the Amendment preamble is so deceptively worded. The proponents know they are pushing an amendment that would not pass on its face alone due to a lack of public support.
indigo
November 4th, 2012
12:19 pm
suibne – 11:20
Our Military is run by the Government, so, we have a socialist Military.
By your logic, our Military should be a complete failure. It is not. So, maybe this “socialism” isn’t so bad after all.
Halle
November 4th, 2012
12:26 pm
It’s always about money. Money is the root of all evil! Absolutely nothing will be changed if the amendment is approved. The same parents, students, and teachers are still in place. Until parents are held responsible for their kids disrupting the learning process and teachers who don’t want to teach are ousted nothing is going to change. School is not a free daycare. This is the only country which gives no value to education and it’s very sad.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
12:28 pm
Crankee-yankee-
The language of Fulton’s charter makes me feel trapped. Avossa’s Strategic Plan makes me feel trapped. The fact that Spence Rogers is doing professional development with his Teaching for Excellence model makes me feel trapped. Knowing hundreds of thousands has been paid to Cambridge Education to come in and tell teachers they cannot teach makes me feel trapped. All the project based learning makes me feel trapped.
The fact that Joel Klein announced at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon that Fulton planned to create new kinds of minds makes me feel trapped. The fact that Fulton principals are now interested in a student’s personality characteristics but still little knowledge makes me feel trapped. A Life Skills emphasis downright makes me want to gag.
It seems to me that State Approved Charter Schools may well be the only publicly funded schools in Georgia where there is any accountability to the taxpayer.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
12:30 pm
“In 30+ years of teaching, I have not met an involved parent who has complained of being “trapped.””
My son was trapped in a system that did not care that he was refused the opportunity to go to the restroom and consequently soild his pants.
I removed him from that system, home-schooled him for the remainder of the year, then placed him in a private school temporarily, then moved to a good school system, where I never had any more problems.
A charter school in that county would have at least given one more option. If I had not had the financial means, he would have been TRAPPED in that system.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
12:36 pm
Halle
November 4th, 2012
12:26 pm
“Absolutely nothing will be changed if the amendment is approved.”
I must disagree here. I do not trust the Deal administration to appoint commission members who will have a clue about the needs of education. I foresee rubber-stamping of requests for politically connected charters that did not have a sound education plan and were denied by local boards. I foresee these schools sucking education dollars away from local systems resulting in continuing program eliminations, class size increases & teacher layoffs.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
12:57 pm
I stand corrected, I am now aware of two.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
12:28 pm
Project-based learning is a return to proven methodologies of the past (just a new name) where students have actual hands-on experiences as opposed to strict text learning that has come about due to decreased consumables budgets. I do not know the ins and outs of Fulton’s overall plans but I can speak with authority on that one issue you raise. Gwinnett School of Math Science & Technology (a charter school) implements this very well along with most other GCPS’s.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
12:30 pm
There was not a charter in the county but what you recall would certainly give me ammunition to get behind a charter there. Did you get behind a push for a charter school? Were you denied by the local board? Denied again by the state commission? If not, your bluster loses credibility.
Nikole
November 4th, 2012
12:57 pm
I have no problem with charters but their funding should be equal to other public schools and independent of those schools. No other school should lose money to fund another. And I am very WARY of for-profit charters. How is profit to be made in a public service such as education?
A reader
November 4th, 2012
1:06 pm
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar, I live in Fulton county and I do not understand why you feel trapped. The county allows students to transfer to another school as long as it is not full. Given that a LOT of schools have been build in north Fulton in the past 10-15 years means that there is room in many of the schools there.
I know there is a big disparity between the schools in north Fulton and south Fulton. Given that both are run by the same superintendent and school board points to the fact that is it not the leadership of the school system, but rather the lack of parental involvement that drives the difference.
If you feel your child is “trapped” in their school, then find another school within the system that is better. Several of the schools in this system have been named Blue Ribbon schools. Several of the high schools have been named in the top 20 of all high schools in GA. In fact, the high school named #2 in the entire state has space and there are many high school students from south Fulton who commute 2-3 hours every day just to attend that school. While this is not an ideal solution, it certainly is not “trapped”.
Centrist
November 4th, 2012
1:24 pm
Since all polls (other than the grossly biased AJC which wistfully says it is close) show it passing, why don’t these AJC followers work with it instead of uselessly wailing against it? Deal with what you have, instead of what you wish for.
Concerned Charter School Parent
November 4th, 2012
1:27 pm
Wow! Just Wow! There is so much in this article and the comments that truly disturb me as a parent. First, AJC Editorial comes out in support of GOP State Superintendent in opposition of Amendment 1. Really? I never realized that the AJC should be in support or opposition when dealing with politics. It is your role to provide facts, stories and apparently personal political opinions. Absolutely, disgusted by this AJC. Second, I am a product of GA schools and I can tell you that I am educated quite well. However, having children of my own now, the issue and need for choice became apparent while consistently volunteering in my children’s classrooms. I know many other parents were pleased with our local school, but I was not. It drove me crazy volunteering at the school and watching my daughter sit idle because she had finished her work, but was given nothing else to work on. I am talking about challenging those students who are ready for additional work. Of course, I also saw other children struggling to understand the concepts. The teacher’s did their best trying to get the concepts through, but given one method for teaching the content really tied their hands. Our state ranks lowest in the nation in education. To me this clearly means, we are NOT DOING SOMETHING RIGHT! Now, comes the fight over control: money and government. Oh boy, here we go again! Money and Government, forget the children! If the local boards were doing such a fantastic job, then why is our state 48th in nation? If I have a choice of college to attend based on my skills, why can I not as parent choice the school that best suits my children needs? That’s right money and power! I VOTED YES TO AMENDMENT 1 and urge all others to think about the real facts: 48th in education! embrace change, embrace hope, embrace parental choice! For profit management companies exist with most non-profits. After all someone has to be responsible for the management duties, so the teachers can focus on their jobs to teach our children and ensure the child’s ability to comprehend the content. Know your facts and vote to support education and a parents right to choose.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
1:28 pm
“Did you get behind a push for a charter school? Were you denied by the local board? Denied again by the state commission? If not, your bluster loses credibility.”
Charter schools were not allowed then. I am hoping that current parents would have an additional option.
Political Mongrel
November 4th, 2012
1:34 pm
To the attack dogs out there: unthinking criticism is not the same as critical thinking, nor is it as good.
Jim Chaput
November 4th, 2012
1:35 pm
The public school monopoly needs more competition and the Charter Schools Amendment is the only measure on the ballot offering it. Other measures, such as vouchers allowing any student to take a full share of “his” system’s operating budget to any public or private school that will accept him, would be better. But they are not on the ballot.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 4th, 2012
1:36 pm
crankee-yankee, would you please identify the Georgia “charter schools that teach creationism”?
MANGLER
November 4th, 2012
1:37 pm
Centrist, likely for the same reason that the GOP Congress has done everything it can to not work with the President and his cabinet, they are only thinking of themselves and not the Nation as a whole – or in this case, the parents clamoring for “choice” (on the public dollar thank you) are not thinking of working with the system as a whole but rather only thinking about themselves and their own kids and the rest of em’ be damned.
Mary Elizabeth
November 4th, 2012
1:43 pm
From the Shannon McCaffrey/James Salzer article in the AJC, linked above, are these words:
==============================================
“The ballot language makes no mention of dollars, but billions are at stake. Which is why vast sums are being spent to promote and – to a lesser extent – to oppose the amendment.
Pro-amendment groups, including national school-choice advocates and for-profit charter school operators, have raised more than $2 million; amendment opponents have collected $123,243, mostly from public school officials, according to an analysis of campaign-finance records by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
=============================================================
That more than 2 million dollars have been raised by pro-amendment groups should tell readers that this amendment is primarily about money vs. public schools. As Herb Garrett well expressed, above, “There is big money to be made in schools.”
Children in public schools should not be used to make money for profiteers.
Vote NO on NOvember 6 on Amendment One.
Jim Chaput
November 4th, 2012
1:48 pm
MANGLER, what is wrong with “…parents clamoring for choice (on the public dollar thank you)…” in the context of public schools? Choice works for publicly-funded colleges and I don’t hear anybody clamoring to assign students to the nearest college.
mountain man
November 4th, 2012
1:50 pm
Mary Elizabeth is one of those who would say all on the ship should drown because we only have a lifeboat big enough for 10%.
I have asked her if she does not agree that there are serious issues with the existing school systems with discipline, attendance, social promotion and she agrees (reluctantly, when pressured). So why, ME, has the existing school systems not done more to address these problems?
yuzeyurbrane
November 4th, 2012
1:51 pm
Since the concept of public education was first created here in America before Karl Marx was even born, I get a kick out of the factually challenged individuals who keep attacking it as Socialist. Public education is literally as American as apple pie.
Eddie Hall
November 4th, 2012
1:52 pm
IF this were just about the children and the quality of their education, you would see me, and MANY of the other folks who oppose this measure shouting from the rooftops. Make no mistake, this is about MONEY. I challenge the Gov to submitt some REAL reform legislation. We do need some changes, this is not it. One final thought, just because you write the check to the county for property taxes, instead of the state, that does not mean your taxes don’t go up!!
Centrist
November 4th, 2012
1:59 pm
@ Mangler – you are simply a partisan. Boehner stood up to the large Tea Party wing of his party and made a tentative “Grand Bargain” deal with Obama on spending, taxes, deficits, and debt – but it was Democrat Senators who made Obama renege. We are going to HAVE to have that or a similar “Grand Bargain” a year later – but this year’s election politics got in the way of Democrats who put party above country. A lame duck Congress will kick the can down the road rather than let the stupid fiscal cliff of increased across the board tax rate increases and draconian military spending cuts.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
2:42 pm
A reader-I feel trapped because all those things I listed gut the transmission of knowledge. And because it is the high achieving high schools being targeted. It’s not a matter of bringing up South Fulton as insisting that the schools in North Fulton that were doing a good job may not any more.
Plus I am quite aware of what the terms Avossa loves to throw around actually mean. Plus I have a copy of the AdvancED accreditation standards and recognize that Mark Elgart does not want academic learning as traditionally understood going on anywhere. I am not being cute. Everything I listed works much differently than commonly understood.
crankee-yankee-I am quite familiar with project-based learning. Would love to see your research on what it is proven to do. My research says it is an attempt to push social interaction and cooperative learning as the point of the classroom experience and allows education credentials to be given to weak students.
I do not like the fact that everyone is trying to figure out a way to let kids who actually cannot read beyond a basic, in context, level a high school degree anyway. Then they get shoved to USG who has figured out how to do the same. Get a degree to people who are only marginally literate.
I think we are creating expensive expectations when we give out degrees to people who are so objectively weak. I want to fix those problems back in elementary school where they start not keep trying to come up with ways to not teach reading effectively and then decide print literacy is no longer really necessary.
As I have said on the language on this point in Georgia’s NCLB waiver-if being illiterate is not to be a barrier anymore, is anyone going to tell the poor students and his parents? Or let them take their solace from online gaming in the classroom and others doing most of the work in the group projects.
If the classroom teacher cannot lecture anymore, the only kids who will really know history are the ones getting it from home or from travel with grandparents. Lots of this skill emphasis will end up making the nature of the home and parents education all the more important. School ought to be about moving beyond the circumstances you were born into, not reenforcing those kids whose parents pay attention and recognize what is missing.
We will simply make kitchen table remediation and storytelling that much more important.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
2:59 pm
Dr. Monica Henson
November 4th, 2012
1:36 pm
Although I have not always agreed with your points in the past, I always respected your opinions. Until now.
You have lost all credibility by grossly misquoting me. See below my actual quote of 12:17 pm.
“I’m sure that parent would have been much better served in a charter school teaching creationism.”
Nowhere did I say there were such schools in GA, just that the parent would have been happier in such an institution.
WhiteWolf of the Bones
November 4th, 2012
3:14 pm
As usual, the ignorant masses are clueless, haven’t done their own research, and see only what they are told to see. I stand with Mountain Man, and Robin Eubanks (ivisibleserfscollar.com). What is happening in the schools today is not a benign experiment. The dumbing down is deliberate, and the majority of students are not being educated, but are being schooled to become willing slaves of the system. But since this is not new, these people who cannot understand, who choose not see the truth, just can’t help themselves, since they are the product of this same system. They see the changes in the whole system as good, since they have little knowledge of the past, and have been indoctrinated themselves. Propaganda works because the masses are easily led by the puppet masters.
Some of us do see and want our own children and grandchildren to have a solid, well-rounded education…not the pablum that is being poured out in the schools today. And everything is about money. Our schools are not headed by wise stewards of the tax dollars…administration is over-bloated, with those at the top and all of their support teams raking in the money, while our teachers struggle with less. The politically correct bunch of nuts is more interested in the unruly, discipline challenged thugs, and their rights, and they know exactly what they doing with the ‘close the gap’ plans. You do not raise the bottom by bringing down the top. But that is what they intend to do. To level the playing field, they have changed from a knowledge base, to the feel good, lets sing some rap, and read an info manual instead. Past learning isn’t important, history isn’t important, science isn’t important, and neither is English, or literature. Unfair, they say that some children have the advantage over those poor children who haven’t learned these things. Watch out, they are already taking the books out of the classrooms. Instead nobody will know anything, and that is just the way they want it.
It will be too soon be too late, and those who have been misled, misfed, and mistaken, will be the ones who cry out the loudest. But those of us who have been aware, and informed will continue to ensure that ours get the education that we want them to have, in spite of the government systems.
Vote yes for choice…the money will get spent either way, and yet we may be able to have more of a say in what happens with it, by choosing these charter schools. I am willing to make that choice and take that chance. Some of us do know what is not working, and those of you who are happy, happy, happy with the state of your schools today, can keep them.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
3:19 pm
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
2:42 pm
I am compiling research now, what I do have supporting data for is that students who go through classes such as mine that include a strong project-based learning component score markedly higher the ITBS & CRCT. A weak argument I know but when the populace wants test scores, I’ll give them test scores. What is not overtly apparent is that the strong kinesthetic learners do much better on my end-of-course tests than they did in the past when I had to make do with classroom demonstrations verses actual student-based lab activities. They are absorbing knowledge on par with the visual & auditory learners where in the past, that was not always the case.
Pride and Joy
November 4th, 2012
3:27 pm
This topic has been beat to death. I challenge anyone to say anything meaningful they haven’t said before.
teaching taxpayer
November 4th, 2012
3:31 pm
I will vote for a statewide charter schools appeal board that give voters the CHOICE of who serves, but never one that allows Nathan Deal to APPOINT his unaccountable cronies. Vote “NO” to Deal’s cronies, and demand REAL choice in a 2014 taxpayer accountable amendment!
teaching taxpayer
November 4th, 2012
3:33 pm
Sorry — add an “s” to “give” in the first line of my post. I’ll proofread better next time, just as maybe our legislature will give us a better amendment if and when we reject this blatant attempt to give cronies the power to spend our tax dollars
Smith Francis
November 4th, 2012
3:46 pm
Yes, and you are obviously not enlightened regarding this subject and during this critical period of Republican ” anti-government, trickle-down economics mantra” especially here in Georgia. Educate yourself regarding the Georgia economic decline since the change to GOP and you will notice that unemployment in Georgia has been on a steep climb, from about 5 % to almost double today. Using my tax dollars to line the pockets of special interest is what this entire excercise is about. This is typical of the type of leadership that we have had in this state, under the GOP! Wake up Rip Van Winkles!!!
Undecided
November 4th, 2012
3:58 pm
I’ve got some questions:
Do charter schools take away taxpayer dollars from public schools? (sounds like it)
Do parents of students attending charter schools have to pay additional money (in addition to their tax dollars) for tuition to these schools?
Just trying to get up to speed on this issue and looking for honest answers.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 4th, 2012
4:02 pm
When Sis Henry, Herb Garrett and other educrats tell us that there’s “big money to be made in schools,” they ought to know. They’ve made plenty.
ABC
November 4th, 2012
4:02 pm
OMG, how could it be about anything but money??? Of course it is about the money!!
Meli
November 4th, 2012
4:06 pm
This is all about the egos of local school board members. There are local school boards all over the state who know they pretty much have their positions for life either because the voters are too uneducated to vote them out, or nobody else will run. They have no incentive whatsoever to do anything to improve failing schools in their communities because the state of Georgia is not inclined to take over a failing school system and you have to do something highly egregious to get SACS to consider pulling accreditation (i’m looking at you, Clayton, Dekalb and City of Atlanta). And yet their own egos will not allow a charter school to set up in their community because competition will require they step up and improve the public schools to compete. This is why the amendment is needed, because we have entirely too many adults in positions of power who are too interested in keeping their hands in the cookie jar and protecting their petty feifdoms instead of doing what is right for the education of the children.
Kris
November 4th, 2012
4:30 pm
Do you want the crooks and thieves in the gold dome to have control over your schools?
They will farm out your schools to the company offering the highest kickback to the corrupt unethical “Georgia government (term used very loosely”).
Dirty deals, default motel loans and fish farms to name a few.
FACT: Amendment 1 CHANGES the CONSTITUTION and permanently alters the governing powers over schools in Georgia.
“We already have a mechanism in place (to approve charter schools). I really have a concern about putting in place another physical agency when we already have two in place to do the same thing.” -state school Superintendent John Barge
http://files.www.votesmartgeorgia.com/facts/Vote_Smart_Sign-1.pdf
Recall Nathan DEAL (governor loosely used term)
Please vte No on Amendment 1
Dr. Monica Henson
November 4th, 2012
4:32 pm
crankee-yankee posted, “Nowhere did I say there were such schools in GA, just that the parent would have been happier in such an institution.”
I wasn’t attempting to misquote you–just seeking clarification. When I read your original post, it appeared as though you were in fact asserting that there are charter schools in GA teaching creationism.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 4th, 2012
4:35 pm
Undecided,
Do charter schools take away taxpayer dollars from public schools? (sounds like it)–Charter schools are public schools. All public schools are funded with state education dollars. Locally authorized charter schools receive state dollars + local property tax dollars and are overseen by the local board of education. State authorized charter schools receive state dollars only, excluding facilities and transportation funding, and are overseen by the State Board of Education.
Do parents of students attending charter schools have to pay additional money (in addition to their tax dollars) for tuition to these schools?
No. Charter schools are public schools and do not (and cannot) charge tuition.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
4:44 pm
Crankee-if you are getting good results with some students with PBL, congratulations. But the kids who actually enjoy lectures and history and books should still have access to that knowledge without becoming an unpaid tutor to the weaker students. And the dominant worker on all the projects. Different students have different needs. I have a lot of official documents that insist that nothing can no go on in public education that is not accessible to all students. That’s national economic suicide.
If you notice I am quite specific about what I have a problem with. I do that for a reason. It’s no fun to know all these bad facts and most people will not look ugliness in the face until they absolutely have to. Perfectly normal human reaction. Tragic things in every sense of the word have come out in schools pushing these ideas in the past. When a parent starts to sense something is wrong, I do not want the gut reaction to be “That can’t be true.”
I want the parent to have somewhere in the back of their mind that Attentive Parent mentioned that as a potential problem. Let’s look into this further. I wrote a post several months ago about how much innocent blood will it take to reject some of these ideas.” I mean that. Parents vary in their willingness to recognize what is happening. If and when they are ready, I probably already have documented the history and consequences of whatever the issue is in ed.
It’s what I do. And I write because you shouldn’t have to have a parent who is a lawyer and paying close attention not to get blindsided by this.
Ron F.
November 4th, 2012
4:56 pm
The majority will decide this issue. Regardless of how we individually feel, we all have the same right to cast our ballot. I’ve cast mine and feel good about my decision. Whatever the outcome, my longstanding commitment to the kids in my classroom does not and will not change. We will, in the end, have to come together to make our school work better, whether or not the amendment is approved. After Tuesday, let’s all roll up our sleeves, as so many must do now in Sandy’s destructive path, and put aside this long, drawn out argument and get busy making it better. Save your putdowns and derision of teachers and get involved by becoming one. I honestly hope we’ll be able to get past the finger pointing and name calling when it’s all said and done. I for one will be doing as I have always done: I will teach with all my heart and soul in whatever school you put me in, and will be able to look back at more than rhetoric to show for my efforts. I wish that we all would do the same.
Charles Douglas Edwards
November 4th, 2012
5:00 pm
We would like to THANK the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (AJC) for their in-depth coverage of both sides of the Charter School Amendment !!!
The “Fourth Estate’ is alive and well in Atlanta, Georgia.
We would like to encourage Georgia voters to vote NO to this divisive and regressive amendment.
People need to understand this amendment if passed will affect the education of our children forever.
It is very, very, very hard to repeal or overturn amendments. It will be a part of Georgia law forever.
It will affect our children 25, 50 and 100+ years from now. This amendment will affect education and public schools for generations.
We believe that we should concentrate on uplifting and improving our public school system. Educating the masses of our students should be the main goal of our state educational system.
We do not need a separate appointed board to control our educational destination.
WE SUPPORT PUBLIC EDUCATION.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
5:13 pm
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
4:44 pm
Properly done, PBL enjoins lecture, individual reading & classwork and small or medium sized group activities. I get good results because I adhere to these basic tenets. What you are describing is a bastardized version of PBL. Where it came from I can only conjecture but I would suspect it is a result of either someone jiggering the delivery modality to “make it better by streamlining it” or cutting out the individualized components due to time constraints or just plain laziness. Neither reason is acceptable in my opinion but is what I have seen happen in many instances when a proven concept is transplanted to another system or program and then does not get the same results. It is not the fault of the program but of those who implement it.
catlady
November 4th, 2012
5:20 pm
Dr. Henson: Charter schools don’t charge tuition, but there is hell to pay for many (not all) of them–transportation money, for example. Parental involvement “tuition”, for example. And before the child attends, the parent has to find out about the school, apply to the school, and provide the necessary paperwork–tough to do for illiterate, drug and alcohol addled parents, and are forms of “tuition” if you have little social or cultural capital in our middle class world.
I am not against parental involvement reqirements for all students. I would even define that quite generously–give us a working phone number, and return our calls, for example. Respond to a request for a meeting, and show up, for example (parent sets date and time). Send your child to school well-rested, clean, and fed, and let them know you want to hear about their day, for example. ALL OF THOSE I would call “parental involvement” from where I sit. These should be standard expectations of ALL parents with a child in the school.
I think it is important for us to all hold our school boards accountable for meeting the expectations of the parents. I hold no hope, given previous, recent actions, that our state leaders will do anything but feather their own nests. This amendment just gives them yet another way to do it.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
5:41 pm
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
November 4th, 2012
4:44 pm
I get good results with PBL because I stick with the basic tenets of lecture, individualized reading, classwork & research followed up by a small or medium sized group lab activity. What you are describing is not the classic version but a bastardized version. Where it comes from I do not know but I would conjecture it is a result of someone “improving” on the concept by streamlining it or just plain laziness. I have seen this before, it is not a faulty program but faulty implementation.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
5:46 pm
Sorry for the double post but my first had not appeared after about 20 minutes so I resubmitted.
Mary Elizabeth
November 4th, 2012
6:14 pm
To highlight a few very important points posted by Charles Douglas Edwards at 5:00 pm:
=========================================
“It (the constitutional amendment) will affect our children 25, 50 and 100+ years from now. This amendment will affect education and public schools for generations.
We believe that we should concentrate on uplifting and improving our public school system. Educating the masses of our students should be the main goal of our state educational system.
We do not need a separate appointed board to control our educational destination.”
3 1/2 years left to be involved in public schools
November 4th, 2012
6:38 pm
Cranky yankee sounds like a yankee union thug.Teachers here are no more accountable than the students. Public schools in Georgia have yet to bottom out. I don’t need a book or a study to know first hand that this is the case.I see it every time I go to the school. One last kid to get through public school and I can FAGETABOUT IT.
pride and joy
November 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
But catlday…
The government cannot force people to be good parents AND
The government cannot prevent humans from procreating SO
We need to give the kids a chance to learn instead of condemning ALL children to a lousy public school.
If you want to argue fairness…
It isn’t fair to kids who can learn and want to learn to be held hostage by schools.
pride and joy
November 4th, 2012
7:04 pm
To ROn F — loved your post.
P and J
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
7:18 pm
DeKalb Parent
November 3rd, 2012
10:49 pm
Yankee? Yes, and proud of it.
Union thug? Please define since collective bargaining is so feared in this state that it is outlawed.
And it is FUGGEDABOUTIT, not sure it has made Websters yet but…
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
7:20 pm
Sorry, previous post should have been directed to
3 1/2 years left to be involved in public schools
November 4th, 2012
6:38 pm
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
7:27 pm
pride and joy
November 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
Here is the chink in the argument you present.
You intimate this will be an answer for kids with poorly functioning parents but why would poor parents go to the trouble of trying to enroll their child in a charter school?
FUBU
November 4th, 2012
7:43 pm
Will Special Ed, EBD, and students will other disabilities be allowed to attend ANY and ALL Charter Schools? No? I didn’t think so!
Public education in America takes on every student who walks through the door! No other country in the world can make this claim. Other countries track students and segregate on a whole host of discriminatory factors. America has a very good education to offer for ALL students.
Last time I checked at the college level the majority of students being educated in the world is educated in American Universities. A majority of these students are from America and educated in public schools! Other countries send their students to America to be educated at the University level.
crankee-yankee
November 4th, 2012
8:28 pm
FUBU
November 4th, 2012
7:43 pm
Be careful, you don’t want to confuse the trolls with facts.
Trolls and facts don’t mix,sort of like gremlins and water.
bootney farnsworth
November 4th, 2012
8:32 pm
the only people “trapped” in the current system are those who put the bars on their own minds.
I taught my kids years ago if you gotta go, go. I’ll be happy to speak to the teacher, principal, and whoever else on your behalf.
bootney farnsworth
November 4th, 2012
8:37 pm
and by speak, I mean blister the paint off the walls.
cpandy
November 4th, 2012
8:49 pm
If this passes, and I think it will, look for a lot of religious schools in Georgia to shut down. They’ll have trouble fund raising against good charter schools in the area.
Kris
November 4th, 2012
9:00 pm
Deal sued over charter school..
http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/gov-deal-sued-over-charter-school-amendment-2960.shtml?wap=0
Link to copy of complaint filed.
http://bettergeorgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PCharterSchoolComplaintFiled.pdf
Vote NO Amendment 1
Leigh
November 4th, 2012
9:25 pm
hmm..I work for a charter and have Special Ed kids in my classroom. In fact, many of my kids had difficulty making it in a regular public school, but within our charter school, they are thriving!
I voted YES. I have seen the difference a charter makes for so many of these kids that have not had their needs met in a regular classroom. I am talking about Special Ed all the way to highly gifted. It is quite an amazing and wonderful thing to watch.
jake brake
November 4th, 2012
9:49 pm
Chas.Douglas,kris,John Barge, Crankee Yankee,agree with all of you opposing.The expense for these schools will come from the taxpayer.The wording on the ballot for this amendment smells to high court with deception.We have charter schools as is.The state just wants more control.
DeKalbParent
November 4th, 2012
10:05 pm
Vote YES. We’ll win.
Higher standard
November 4th, 2012
11:18 pm
The idea that creating a separate, politician run school system for charters with no voter accountability for the commission creating them is crazy.
The mirage is tiresome. Tell the public that they need charter schools: WE HAVE THEM. Tell the public to change the constitution: THE WORDING is MIsLEADING. Tell the state we care about your children’s education: WHY SUCH DEEP CUTS if YOU CARE?
Please understand that you are giving away your voice!
If competition creates winners, why should we let the state pick the losers in this system?
Pardon My Blog
November 5th, 2012
5:46 am
I’m guessing that most of us in DeKalb (and probably Clayton County) will vote YES to the Amendment because we have seen how incompetent the local “leaders” are. Even though we try to clean up the Board, we can’t control the voters of other districts who consistently vote in the miscreants. Personally, I am not a fan of Charter Schools and believe that voters should be given a choice of whether or not to continue to pay for these “private” schools.
pride and joy
November 5th, 2012
6:04 am
crankee yankee you missed the message altogether. You worote “You intimate this will be an answer for kids with poorly functl ioning parents but why would poor parents go to the trouble of trying to enroll their child in a charter school?”
Kids with lousy parents might not go to a charter school.
They got the shaft from their parents.
They also get the shaft from the public school.
Their plight will likely never change. Mine didn’t. I wass one of trhose kids.
I missed out on a lot but I made it through my own hard work.
Most kids won’t make it.The point is — we cannot let kids with good parents be trapped in the failing public school just because some other kids don’t have praents who care.
We cannot allow ALL KIDS TO SUFFER because some parents don’t care.
Using that twisted logic, we should never give blood to teh red cross because we know we cannot save all lives, only some.
That’s just cruel.
Get as many kids out of the rotten, crooked, miserable public school now thruogh charter schools.
The let everyone else out of any school, even a marginal one if they want to go.
Educrats and cronies and liars and thievecs don’t care about the kids in their schools. They care ab out the money in their pocket and the power in their positioon.
IF educrats cared about kids the schools would be good.
Fifty years of rotten schools is a crime.
Everyone deserves better than a rotten miserable failing Georgia school.
Let’s get out as many innocent lives as we qan.
Let’s save as many minds as ew can.
To use the arguement that we cannot save all the kids so let’s not save any of them — is a heartbreaking, CRUEL, heartless position.
MAY
November 5th, 2012
6:55 am
Was it @Taxpayer Teacher on the first page that said she’d never be in favor of a governor appointed, crony commission? Better leave education. The charter commission is appointed by three elected officials, the board with TONS of power and money is selected by the governor only, the state school board. They have curriculum decision making power too. I bet if you asked 10 people on the street, you’d have a hard time finding one who knows their state board representative. I bet the coroner’s office fought hard to make that an elected position in many counties too. Does anyone know who those people are running…..or even what they do.
The charter commission was made up of professionals, some with education backgrounds some with business backgrounds. They were tough on the petitioners and didn’t let frivolous, would be, charter school operators pass. I’m not sure if any of these people could honestly say they were friends with the governor, Lt. governor or speaker. Just part of the opponents rhetoric to scare everyone. They should be scared at the power these superintendents wield over the elected boards.
Vote yes and allow parents to choose between the charter school or the non-charter public school. If the waiting list becomes increasingly long, the superintendent and his/her board should reflect on the will of their parents and make some changes. If more students choose the non-charter public school, the charter will shut down. It takes students to make any money. I like the plan.
Private Citizen
November 5th, 2012
7:09 am
Hey everybody, have a look at the descriptive outline I made / posted of the 1.5 hour Harvard roundtable discussion / counterpoint video about the charterization of New Orleans. The video makes a lot of good points and credit to Former Fulton Employee for providing the video link from which I made the outline of what they are reporting / talking about.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/11/03/new-ajc-analysis-fewer-poor-kids-attend-charter-schools-in-metro-area-does-that-matter-to-you/?cp=all#comment-238532
Mountain Man
November 5th, 2012
7:17 am
“I taught my kids years ago if you gotta go, go. I’ll be happy to speak to the teacher, principal, and whoever else on your behalf.”
When your child is 8 years old and is being taught in a trailer 200 feet from the main school building, trailers that are not even segregated from the main entrance road by a fence? What is to stop a stranger from grabbing such a student?
Mountain Man
November 5th, 2012
7:48 am
“and by speak, I mean blister the paint off the walls.”
I did, and their answer was “we don’t care”.
By the way – this was Cherokee County (the same ones that turn down charter schools because their schools are “so good”.)
ChartersStarter, Too
November 5th, 2012
8:24 am
Indeed, billions ARE at stake… which is why the opposition is fighting so hard.
Take a look at this….
$1,638,888,503
That, my friends, is the amount of money we spend in this state on school district bureaucracy.
If anyone is wondering why the districts and their affiliate organizations are fighting so hard, it is because they are protecting THIS – they KNOW charters can do it more efficiently, and that scares them to death. They fear the public will catch on and demand this same efficiency.
Think about it.
Looking for the truth
November 5th, 2012
9:50 am
These outside EMO’s funding ads for Amendment 1 make money by skimping on supplies and salaries for everyone except for the top dogs. That alone is enough for me to vote “NO” tomorrow.
ChartersStarter, Too
November 5th, 2012
10:02 am
@ Looking at Truth -
Interesting… let’s dig in a bit
1. The EMOs supporting the amendment are actually INSIDE – they work for Georgia schools, employ Georgia teachers, and have Georgia based employees
2. Their schools are outperforming the districts and zoned schools they serve…. and they are doing it on 38% LESS.
Let me ask you something – do you find it acceptable during a time of austerity when teachers are being furloughed, classroom sizes are increased, and instructional days are being cut for superintendents to take raises and for county offices to GROW? If the answer to that is NO, then please explain to me how you can POSSIBLY fuss about management companies that are doing it better for less and not see that those in the education establishment are milking classrooms right in front of you – and they get a free pass because they are “elected.”
Mountain Man
November 5th, 2012
10:16 am
“make money by skimping on supplies and salaries for everyone except for the top dogs. ”
Sounds like our current Dekalb county BOE. $2000 chairs?
ChartersStarter, Too
November 5th, 2012
10:34 am
There are more than 60,000 students in start-up charter schools in the state. Only 4 school districts in this state have more than 60,000 students.
Over 5,000 students are sitting on waiting lists for start up charter schools. 118 school districts have less than 5,000 students.
We’re not talking about one or two parents catering to their Suzy Sunshines… we are talking about massive amounts of parents looking for better quality public schools.
ChartersStarter, Too
November 5th, 2012
10:46 am
http://www.econ.gatech.edu/files/papers/CharterSchools_0.pdf
Economist Dr. Christine Ries from Georgia Tech debunks the claims made by school districts…
DeKalb Inside Out
November 5th, 2012
10:55 am
Where does Georgia rank?
Georgia is top 10 in spending and bottom 10 in results. I hope we can fix traditional schools, but more money is obviously not the answer.
Mountain Man
November 5th, 2012
11:03 am
Thanks, Dekalb inside out – I guess that proves the (non-) link between spending and performance.
How much does it cost for administrators to enforce attendance?????
Truth or Fiction?
November 5th, 2012
11:32 am
“they can appeal to the state Board of Education, which may overrule the local officials. Which body approves the application affects whether a charter school receives local property tax dollars or not. Charters with either type approval receive state funds.”
Wasn’t this appeals process determined by a Ga Court to be illegal? Currently there is no process to appeal local decisions.
I believe that was the impetus for creating ammendment, to allow the appeal process to be re-instated as a check to local, and to oft, currupt school boards.
Mary Elizabeth
November 5th, 2012
12:19 pm
Interesting information disclosed from the following poster last evening on the Atlanta Forward blog:
========================================
Hillbilly D, November 4th, 2012
8:08 pm
“Interesting that the Gainesville Times came out, today, against Amendment One. They’re usually in lockstep with Deal.”
—————————————————————————————–
DeKalb Inside Out
November 5th, 2012
1:54 pm
Charter School Amendment Facts
Please let know if any of this is incorrect.
Charter CommissionCharter School Amendment doesn’t say anything about creating a charter commission or any other 3rd route for charter appeals. This amendment just reconfirms the state’s authority to commission charters.
They can appeal to the state Board of Education – The 2011 ruling leaves no room for any state agency to create charter schools, a power the justices held to be the “exclusive” constitutional domain of local boards. The code in OCGA for the State BOE to create charters hasn’t been challenged yet so is still on the books.
Charter schools are independent public schools – False. All state chartered schools are independent public schools, but not all chartered schools are independent public schools.
Just A Teacher
November 5th, 2012
2:26 pm
I think a different amendment to the Georgia constitution would solve both of these issues. Since charter schools require parents to volunteer for 20 hours a month. why not just pass an amendment to the state constitution that every parent who has a child enrolled in a public school must volunteer at that school for 20 hours per month?
Ivan
November 5th, 2012
4:08 pm
Maureen – I’d like more info on how some charter schools get property tax money and some don’t. Based on what I pay in property taxes, I don’t see how any school can survive if they don’t get property tax funds. Thanks
DeKalb Inside Out
November 5th, 2012
5:01 pm
Ivan,
Locally approved charters get funded like any other traditional school. The state chartered schools referenced in the chartered school amendment would not receive local money from property taxes. They would get Q.B.E state funds plus a state supplement.
KIM
November 5th, 2012
5:29 pm
You failed to mention EdisonLearning, another private entity with its hands already in our pockets with one of the online schools. Ask the charter supporters which private entities are waiting breathlessly for the money. They know who they are. And with a little research, the public can too.
ChartersStarter, Too
November 5th, 2012
5:51 pm
@ DeKalb Inside and Out -
You’re right in principal on the funding. In PRACTICE (because the districts don’t all fund like they are supposed to) locally approved charters get about 74% of what the traditional public schools (and don’t get any of the facility funds or some of the categorical grants either.) We are SO efficient what we have to work with – it makes the achievement all the more amazing.
@ Kim – the only management companies who invested in the campaign are already here in Georgia (and employ Georgia citizens.) Tell me what evidence you have any other company is waiting “breathlessly” for the money? That’s just silly, frankly.
thinkthru
November 5th, 2012
6:27 pm
Great idea – we can apply the concept to any state service the “local community requests”. We can have charter state parks, charter departments of labor offices, charter offices of community health, charter tax collection, charter state courts, etc. Every local community group can create their own little cluster of state services that all tax payers pay for at an increased rate. This competition would greatly increase the efficiency of government would it not?
CY 2.0
November 5th, 2012
6:54 pm
I know better than to bother, but the English teacher in me cannot let it go…
Quotation marks = direct quote. A direct quote uses only the exact words (in the same order) that someone else said/wrote. As a note to everyone, please do a quick Google search if you are unsure of a grammar rule. Errors in your grammar only weaken your argument. Also, there is a huge difference between a typo and an error made because someone lacks knowledge. Know the difference.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
November 5th, 2012
9:24 pm
@CharterStarter Too “…how you can POSSIBLY fuss about management companies that are doing it better for less and not see that those in the education establishment are milking classrooms right in front of you – and they get a free pass because they are “elected.””
Can’t speak for others but I will fuss! You bet I will. I am not the type to ignore corruption just because someone else is equally guilty. Do you expect people not to “fuss” about the potential for corruption in for profit charter schools because some public school systems are corrupt as well? Do you really think those of us who worry about misappropriation of funds by management compaies in charge of charter schools don’t worry about the misuse of funds by the public school systems? Unless you TRULY believe that everyone opposed to the charter amendment is some corrupt big cheese in the public system who is milking taxpayers for all they are worth, then this comment makes no sense. We are already frustrated by our inablity to stop the corruption in some public school systems, and now you want us to open the door to a movement that has lead to wide spread misuse of taxpayers funds in other states.
Yes, some charters “do it for less” but how do they manage that? Sometimes, by only hiring TFA teachers or new graduates and keeping them only a short time so they never gain enough seniority to be paid more than a pittance, by not providing retirement or heath benefits for employees, by not providing sufficient materials for students, by failing to provide libraries, arts programs and other enrichment opportunities, by not providing transportation… and using the “saving” to pay their CEOs big bucks.
This may not be the case in Georgia, yet… but with the passage of this amendment, I would not be surprised to see these kinds of practices start to arise as they have in other states that have opened the door to for profit charters.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 5th, 2012
10:25 pm
KIM posted, “You failed to mention EdisonLearning, another private entity with its hands already in our pockets with one of the online schools.”
So do you have a problem with the dozens of districts all over Georgia who have a contract with Ombudsman to operate alternative schools? Ombudsman is a private, for-profit company. Many districts have contracts with this company and outsource the education of their troubled students.
Do you have a problem with Prentice Hall, Houghton Mifflin, Little Brown, Harcourt Brace, et al, having contracts with public school districts to sell them textbooks and curriculum materials? Is that “having their hands” in taxpayers’ pockets? They are being paid enormous numbers of taxpayer dollars.
Our school’s Board of Directors has a contract with EdisonLearning to provide back office support, technology, curriculum materials, and professional development. SO WHAT? We also have a contract with an insurance company to provide liability insurance. Is that somehow nefariously diverting taxpayer funds into the pockets of Big Business?
Those who continue to shriek and howl like mashed cats about “for profit” companies benefiting from contracts with charter schools had best take a look at all the contracts that school districts have with “for profit” companies. Schools are big customers for many, many providers of goods and services, almost all of them for-profit.
AthensResident
November 5th, 2012
11:02 pm
I prefer “I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming…’s” arguments over “Dr. Monica Henson’s”. So there.
Dana Kling
November 5th, 2012
11:47 pm
Hello friends, I appreciate your time and I promise not to deluge any status updates with Vote NO on Amendment 1 fodder.
If you know me, you know my allegiances – to the students in my classroom, in my school, in my county, and in my state. I had the privilege today of interviewing ten students who all wished to spend six weeks this summer learning/participating in the Governor’s Honor Program; these young people are poised, purposeful, and polished. While many think they know what it going on in our schools, I ask you not to let negative anecdotes trump reality.
I know some of you are frustrated with your schools and with your school boards, but the recourse is to vote the locally accountable people out; after this amendment, that accountability may not even be plausible.
5-6,000,000,000s of state funding has been siphoned from GA public schools since 2003 under the guise of “austerity,” long before the bottom fell out of this economy. It’s no wonder public schools are hurting. Gwinnett alone is teaching 10,000 more kids with 2000 less teachers since 2008. The state has helped to create the problem and then proposes a solution that takes more funding away from locally elected boards in lieu of an unaccountable bureaucracy.
There was a proposed amendment that would have prevented for-profit companies coming in to Georgia. Not surprisingly, that amendment was dispatched. The wording of the amendment manipulates our better angels; the unintended (or sadly, intended) consequences of this amendment will harm far more students enrolled in traditional public schools than those that stand to benefit. 90% of the funding for the pro-amendment lobby is coming from out of state. Please ask, do these outside interests seek to educate every child? There is money in dem dere hills and it breaks my heart to see such rapacity aimed at public education.
Amendment 1 is NOT about the worth of charter schools; I have teacher friends and administrators who work at charter schools – who are most assuredly voting NO. Still, the opposition is making it into about school choice and parental empowerment.
Please hear me: I’m not worried about children whose parents can advocate for their children… I’m worried about those children out there… and how I wish there weren’t many, but there are… whose parents can’t, won’t, or simply just don’t advocate for their children. THOSE kids matter, too, and by voting NO, you are voting for ALL children.
Thank you… Please tell your friends!
http://www.votesmartgeorgia.com
And, one last time, because Callie is just ridiculously cute and the quote from the Republican Superintendent of schools (who is voting NO!) is so powerful…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQW_P1p51c
ChartersStarter, Too
November 6th, 2012
9:06 am
Vote YES.
Stay safe out there on the roads today everybody. I appreciate the dialogue.
Ray
November 6th, 2012
12:11 pm
I just read in a NYT piece that Dr. Henson heads an on-line state charter high school, Provost Academy, in Georgia. An on-line high school? I didn’t know we had such a thing in Georgia. Barf. If this is where we’re headed, lord help us.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 6th, 2012
1:33 pm
Ray
Seems like on-line state charter high schools would be a viable option for some people. On-line virtual schools are not going to be the destruction of traditional schools. What are you afraid of? It is just another option for parents and their children. I’m guessing it’s a great option for many parents and children. I hope you wouldn’t deny them this venue for education.
Ray
November 6th, 2012
4:41 pm
DeKalb Inside Out: On-line colleges and universities are basically second and third rate options (i.e., they’re considered a joke by most employers), that have generally been shown to be very expensive for what they provide (i.e., they’re rip offs), so no, I’m not really crazy about extending that “option” to Georgia high school students — especially with taxpayer funds.
I don’t think this is about “denying students this venue for education”, but rather it is about private companies wanting to cash in, like Univ. of Phoenix, et al. have, with taxpayer funds. I’m sure the bean counters at these companies have figured out the potential gold mine of showing some videos or on-line presentations to hundreds or thousands of remotely located students at a time. Brilliant business model. Am I “afraid” of public education being sold down the river to these carpet baggers? Yes. Am I “afraid” that conservative idealogues see this as a potential avenue to slash the cost, and quality, of public education, while enriching a few private interests? Yes.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 6th, 2012
5:42 pm
Ray,
Yup … Univ. of Phoenix types are definitely trying to cash in.
On-line colleges and universities are basically second and third rate options – Yet some people apparently consider them the first option, otherwise it would close down.
Dr Henson’s model for online schools is not expensive. Parents know what is best for their children. Who cares where the money is going as long they are providing a superior service … at a fraction of the cost.
Hardware/Software Analogy
* When you buy a computer, do you care where that money goes? No, just as long as you get a superior product.
* Is Dell and Microsoft thinking up ways to deliver sub par products to screw people over to make a buck? No, they are trying to deliver superior products so people will choose them.
Why would for profit companies in the education business be any different than any other company around the world?
Slippery Slope – What is the next step in education? Vouchers? Privatization?
I think you’re going to hate my answer – Who cares as long as we are receiving a better education at a fraction of the cost than the previous iteration of education
Thanks for the convo the last few months!! I’ve learned a lot!! I just want what is best for the children and taxpayers. I don’t care about jobs or trying to resurrect the fond memories I have of the excellent traditional schools I went to. That excellence is dead. It’s a brave new world.
Ray
November 6th, 2012
5:59 pm
DIO: There are many things I could say in response, but suffice it to say I strongly disagree. “Excellent traditional schools are dead” and “it’s a brave new world [of on-line schools]“. Yikes. Why is Nancy Jester, your hero, even on the public school board if she thinks this way?
KIM
November 6th, 2012
6:28 pm
@ Dr Monica Henson–Yes, I have an enormous problem with a private, for profit entity running a school on taxpayers’ money. And yes, I have an enormous problem with start up schools who have found a way to sell their profit making interest to parents who are seeking a better situation for their children. I have been in staff development with the “leaders” of too many of these schools and watched their disengagement with the very district that is attempting to help them raise the bar with regard to instruction. Why? I really don’t know. They could have learned from how to use data to guide instruction to how to provide meaningful staff development to the teachers who come to work for them. But, no, not until the state forced them to up their curriculum. I have a real problem with that.
KIM
November 6th, 2012
6:31 pm
In case anyone is confused: I have a problem with schools making a profit for a private entity that is running the school. Do not let Dr. Henson’s words confuse my position. Thanks
Dr. Monica Henson
November 7th, 2012
7:56 pm
We do not “sell” anything. We are a public high school and no family pays tuition. We do not “make a profit for EdisonLearning,” as they are neither the owners nor the operators of the school. The school is a Georgia public school and is governed by a nonprofit board of directors.
Private, for-profit colleges are a completely different type of organization than public charter schools, which are by law nonprofit organizations. I am completely opposed to those types of colleges even being permitted to exist, by the way.
Whether Provost Academy Georgia is a first-, second-, or third-rate public high school will be evident in the spring, when our academic achievement results and student performance on the Georgia End of Course Tests are available.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 7th, 2012
7:59 pm
And KIM, for what I hope is the last time on this blog, I want every reader to know that there is no private, for-profit entity running Provost Academy Georgia. I am the chief executive officer of the school, and my two fellow administrators and I “run the school,” just as superintendents, principals, and business managers “run the schools” for districts. All three of us are public employees and members of the Teachers Retirement System, not employed by EdisonLearning but by the Board of Directors of the school, just as superintendents, principals, and business managers are employees of their local boards of education.
Dr. Monica Henson
November 7th, 2012
8:00 pm
Ray, our courses are taught by Georgia-certified, experienced, well-qualified public high school teachers. I have National Board Certified Teachers and a two-time Teacher of the Year. Your characterization of online instruction illustrates supreme ignorance of our academic program.