Guest column: Only six of 10 kindergartners will graduate high school. Vote “yes” on charter amendment to improve their chances.
Here is a pro piece in favor of the charter schools amendment by Atlanta educator Tyler S. Thigpen.
Thigpen is Head of Upper School at Mount Vernon Presbyterian School in Sandy Springs. A former teacher in Gwinnett County, Thigpen is co-founder of the Chattahoochee Hills Charter School of SW Fulton and continues as a voluntary adviser to the school.
By Tyler S. Thigpen
Money and control are at the heart of the current debate about our state’s upcoming charter school vote, critics argue, while innovation, choice, and opportunity are king for amendment supporters. But there is another, and more urgent, narrative that should move us when we vote next week: We are in desperate need of stronger leadership and higher standards in Georgia k-12 education.
Let us create a statistical snapshot of 10 children who entered kindergarten in Atlanta this year. These darling children have since been sounding out letters, singing songs, and writing the alphabet. It does not take more than a classroom visit to see that that their minds are open, their futures bright.
But if nothing changes in our schools, then by the time these 10 kindergarteners are 18, only six of them will have graduated from high school. And by the time these same young people are 21 years old, only two of them will have graduated from college.
Ten kindergarteners. Six high school graduates. Two college graduates.
Statistics statewide are equally as dismal, the Chronicle of Higher Education reports, with a mere 24 percent graduating from college.
That is, of course, if nothing changes.
What has been absent from the recent conversation about charter schools is that when the state-appointed Charter Schools Commission, in its day, authorized charter schools, in every instance the commission held its schools to a standard higher than the one to which their local district held neighboring schools.
When we applied for charter status for Chattahoochee Hills Charter School, we had to demonstrate our commitment and plan to outpace Fulton County Schools in absolute terms (that the percentage of our students scoring advanced or proficient on end-of-grade tests was greater than in other schools in FCS), in comparative terms (that we outperformed other FCS schools with similar demographic profiles), and in longitudinal terms (that the percentage score of individual students in our school increased over time at a rate greater than at other). Schools lacking either a similar plan or the expertise to execute did not make it past the first round.
The commission also has a track record of meaning what they say, having denied the reauthorization of underperforming charters like Imagine Marietta and West Chatham Preparatory Academy. Moreover, the commission was made up of uniquely qualified educational leaders, including a former University of Georgia president, who, unlike elected officials who navigate competing priorities, could be focused singularly on academic achievement.
Few to none would deny that what Georgia needs is 10-10-10. Ten kindergarteners. Ten high school graduates. Ten college graduates.
Every sector of our economy stands to benefit from achieving this goal. Business savvy college graduates will populate our state’s corporations. Well-trained administrators will fill our state’s public offices. Shrewd alumni will enter and positively shape finance, law, housing, and health.Georgia boasts the busiest airport in the world, the fourth busiest port in the United States, and, if Georgia were a stand-alone country, the 28th largest economy in the world. As a state, we are economically ambitious, yet we remain academically underperforming.
Within 10 years, more than 60 percent of jobs will require a college degree. Already, most new Atlanta jobs require higher education. And these jobs are quickly outpacing the number of college graduates that our state is producing.
In “Immunity To Change,” authors Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey suggest that at this moment in history, we are experiencing a mismatch between the world’s complexity and our own. To fix it, we can try and reduce the world’s complexity, or we can enhance our capacity to manage that complexity. The first won’t happen. The second, they argue, has long seemed an impossibility of adulthood and something too difficult to achieve in our schools.
But failing to prepare our children to navigate a 21st century marketplace is not a valid option. And 10-6-2 is absolutely unacceptable. We must confront complexity head on.
After the Georgia General Assembly established the Georgia Charter Commission in 2008, national leaders lauded our representatives for positioning the state to experience academic innovation and growth, and high-performing school leaders were drawn to Georgia where they have launched successful schools.
Charter schools are not a panacea. But they are a mechanism for change. And in a state where 10-6-2 is the reality, change is sorely needed. More school leaders in Georgia should be thinking about how to outperform neighboring schools and outdo their own growth year after year. And we need state leaders who demand it.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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141 comments Add your comment
james
November 2nd, 2012
9:34 am
Sorry but to let our state government be
in control of Charter Schools is a mistake.
Let the local boards handle the charter schools.
The main reason only 6 of 10 finish HS is the
people having these kids- ignorant blacks, whites,
Latino’s who have no busiess having all these
children when they can’t even take care of themselves.
Just a fact that isn’t going to change anything by approving
this bill…. Vote No… Less government is needed not
more….
misty fyed
November 2nd, 2012
9:40 am
The basic premise is wrong. 40% won’t graduate because they quit. The schools didn’t kick them out. They didn’t refuse to teach them. The schools didn’t close or pre-select them for failure. 40% quit but 60% did not. The education opportunity is there for them to take. They have to reach out and take it. No Charter school can force that decision. The Charter school will show an increase in graduation rate simply because their students are the ones who parents care enough to be involved. Show me a Charter school that can take over an entire student population of a school and improve the performance and we can talk. As it is, the Charter school stats look good because they get the higher achieving students. In the end, the public school will still be left to educate the ones who’s parents fail them…only now with less money.
guest
November 2nd, 2012
9:41 am
We will continue having low graduation rates until we decide to change the culture.
Concernedmom30329
November 2nd, 2012
9:42 am
Supporting the amendment, but wondering what the demographics of Chattahoochee Hills will be as compared to surrounding schools. Along with a charter school up in White County, this one seems to be driven by the desire for new development and to attract families.
Roach
November 2nd, 2012
9:46 am
How exactly will giving a share of our inadequate schools budget to out-of-state for-profit school management companies, leaving even less for Georgia students, improve the situation? There is zero evidence that charter schools outperform traditional schools overall, but there is plenty of evidence that tehre is no more money for schools coming from the legislature. Whatever the school operators take in profits most certainly is taken away from your children. Don’t be fooled. Vote NO.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
9:52 am
I am not sure I agree with the arguments presented here even though I voted “YES” on Amendment 1.
I don’t believe in the 10-10-10 argument – not all students SHOULD go to college. There are many fine professions (yes, even ditchdiggers and garbagemen are fine professions) that do not require a college degree. Indeed, if high schools put out a quality product (read: students who can read , write, and do simple arithmetic) MOST people would not need to go to college.
The other disagreement is that you cannot force a loser who does not want to finish high school to do so. If the student is hell-bent on shunning the “too-white” image and wants to join a gang, then that is what they are going to do. The best thing for society is to get them in prison as quickly as possible and keep them there as long as possible.
What SHOULD be the target is to get the students who CARE and WANT to learn into an environment where they CAN learn. That is not happening now. They are crowded into classrooms with SPED students that disrupt the class, with discipline problems that disrupt the class, with kids who miss large chunks of classes due to absenteeism, and “socially promoted” students, forcing the teacher to “dumb down” the instruction.
This is why charters are needed, to separate the grain from the chaff, since the traditional schools will not do this.
PJ
November 2nd, 2012
9:52 am
“I am voting for Charter Schools because they work, they work on much less money and they teach the kids what they need to know to succeed in life. Public schools are Unions, maintain bad teachers and its all about the money and benefits, not the students. Vote Yes for Charter Schools. Vote Yes for our kids.”
This was one of the AJC vents today. And the sad part is it had 64 votes. Some people really, really think that they’re voting for or against charter schools. Ignorance in action.
Batllek Toskabra
November 2nd, 2012
9:54 am
This ballot initiative promises to take even more dollars away from public school students.Taxpayer money should be used to fund schools that benefit and educate ALL Georgia students. If this amendment passes then the public schools will become the domain of the least, the lost, and the left behind. The budgets of local school districts will be stripped significantly and sent to private schools. Not only will this pool of money have to be shared between public and charter schools, but the state will create more charter schools (not create additional funding!) Charter schools will be funded simply by taking dollars from public schools and public school students.
mystery poster
November 2nd, 2012
9:56 am
From the article “Within 10 years, more than 60 percent of jobs will require a college degree”
So then, why should our goal be 100% college degrees? Are they saying our garbage collectors should have degrees? I’m not trying to minimize any profession, my garbage collectors are hard working individuals who do a great job but I’m not sure a college degree is necessary for that line of work.
Devil's Advocate
November 2nd, 2012
9:58 am
misty fyed’s post owned the one by james.
I love how the same people who preach “personal responsibility” don’t seem to use it. I still haven’t met a person who failed to graduate because of a school or teacher.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
9:59 am
I like charter schools because it makes education voluntary! Imagine that!
Mellisa
November 2nd, 2012
9:59 am
I attend the University of Georgia I spent all 4 years of high school in a Georgia public school. I graduated 7th in my class because I put in the effort and hard work necessary to do so. I never once felt that my ability to learn was hurt by “SPED” kids or the kids that never showed up to school, or the kids that did drugs. I concentrated on doing what I knew I had to do to succeed and in the end, I did. You’re child is NOT above the public school system. Hard work, focus, and determination is what will get them far in life….not a charter school education.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
10:01 am
I hear it repeated over and over here – Amendment 1 will TAKE MONEY AWAY from your school. How is that? The Supreme Court of GEorgia ruled that LOCAL taxes cnot be accessed by these state-approved schools. So the local schools will end up with MORE MONEY PER STUDENT when a charter school opens and diverts students to its campus. The only question would be about STATE funds (which make up a minority of school funding). There have been NO plans to remove state funds from schools, yet the denouncers of this amendment assure us this is going to happen.
School funding was being cut WAY before this amendment ever was proposed. Was that because of Amendment 1? Or was it just because of reduced tax income and prioities of the State? How much money is spent in traditional schools to support bloated adminstration and pursue expensive litigation at the expense of teaching kids? THESE are the people you are DEFENDING! These are the ones you WANT to have total control over your tax dollars! These are the ones who have run Clayton County and Dekalb county into the ground! And you want to PROTECT their right to refuse choice to their constituents.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
10:02 am
” I still haven’t met a person who failed to graduate because of a school or teacher”
I have. There were some who made a mistake and were forced out because of the superintendent’s or principle’s personal beliefs.
guest
November 2nd, 2012
10:02 am
Why would you encourage a high school kid to choose a “low paying” career? Then once they get that “low paying” job, we have to listen to them whine about how unfair it is that they make low wages. Instead, we need to encourage them to aim high. There’s no penalty for having a good education. In fact, it opens other doors that may not necessarily be in your major.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
10:03 am
“From the article “Within 10 years, more than 60 percent of jobs will require a college degree””
Why? Because a high school diploma is a worthless piece of toilet paper!! There is no guarantee that a high school graduate will be able to read, write, or do simple math.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
10:06 am
I find that those who graduate college think everyone else should graduate college. Now only 50% of college graduates are unemployed or underemployed. Have we lost our high paying service jobs? I hope so because we need to make things not just provide services.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
10:08 am
Maureen we need an updated picture of you, I have drooled over this long enough.
mystery poster
November 2nd, 2012
10:10 am
@PJ
I saw that vent, too, that said that unions are ruining public schools in GA. I get so sick of saying again and again that we have no teachers’ unions in GA.
I wonder who is ruining the schools, then. /saracasm
Country boy
November 2nd, 2012
10:13 am
If charter schools do a better job, don’t cost the state any more money, and don’t cost any local tax dollars, why don’t we make all of the schools charter schools and eliminate local school property taxes?
Ivan
November 2nd, 2012
10:14 am
Anyone that is trying to hide behind the “we need local control at the school board level” argument is delusional or just not being honest. We have a 9 member board that covers a huge geographic area where one person is supposed to represent our neighborhood interests. However, the entire board votes on any charter application. Meaning if our board member doesn’t create alliances with the rest of the board, we don’t get what we want and if we wait four years to vote her out, it’s too late for my kid. Vote Yes – we can and will do better than the current system.
Devil's Advocate
November 2nd, 2012
10:40 am
1. In a free market economy there will be those who make more and those who make less. No amount of education will guarantee that an individual will make more. There are only so many jobs that pay a lot of money.
2. williebkind, don’t be so vague. Please elaborate on what mistake was made. Was this a personal issue or an educational issue? If the student did something “bad” that got them kicked out of school, well whose fault was it? Also, could the student not have attended a different school?
yuzeyurbrane
November 2nd, 2012
10:41 am
Because of high geographic mobility (the average American moves once every 5 years) the alleged statistics re kindergartners graduating high schools is almost totally meaningless regarding evaluating Georgia’s experience. I think the Headmaster of the charter school who wrote article needs to go back to school or at least stop being so condescending towards the intelligence of the readers of this blog. We are not her students.
AlreadySheared
November 2nd, 2012
10:42 am
Charter, schmarter.
We’ll have real educational reform in this country when the tax dollars allocated to educate a student follow the student to whatever accredited institution his or her parents choose. AKA, we trust parents as their children’s most important advocates.
Imagine, if you dare, a health care system where medicare/medicaid only pays you benefits if you go to the hospital you live closest to; go somewhere else and you pay out of pocket, while your medicare dollars still flow to your neighborhood hospital. Anybody want to SWITCH to that system of care?
Of course not, but that’s the payment model that voucher opponents advocate for our children. Charter schools aren’t the answer, but they are a very very small step in the right direction.
bootney farnsworth
November 2nd, 2012
10:44 am
all the charter schools in the universe won’t fix the real problems we are determined to ignore:
-disinterested parents
-an anti achievement/education mentality in many parts of US society
-pols like red meat Fran who know better, but cloud issues for political gain
Devil's Advocate
November 2nd, 2012
10:47 am
As for vouchers, I’ve always wondered why people want to live in an area where the schools are “bad”. I mean a given school is defined by the people who live in the school’s district. If enough bad apples attend the school to make it a “crappy” school then why would any person claiming to want better for their children want to live there?
It doesn’t make much sense to transport your children to another better performing school and impose on the locals of that community now does it?
People are no different than politicians it seems. Everyone seems to believe that there are unlimited resources available when it comes to “getting their’s”.
AlreadySheared
November 2nd, 2012
10:55 am
@Mellisa,
If you graduated high school 7th in your class, it’s a safe bet you didn’t take a lot of classes with the off-the-hook, disruptive, “how can I get out of this firetrap” knuckleheads that populate some lower-achieving classes, and DOMINATE the worst of them.
ALL diligent, hard-working students deserve the learning environment you experienced, not just those in the top 10% of their classes.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
10:57 am
Roach,
This is another common misconception. If you look at the History of Funding Education in Georgia you’ll see that school districts have received more and more money ever year over the last 26 years. Adjusted for inflation, they are getting more now than they ever have.
Note: All local money stays with the local school district. Therefore, for every child that goes to a charter school the local school district has more money per child in their system.
Question
Who cares if charters do not outperform traditional schools? If state chartered schools do not provide a superior education then parents will choose not to go there. The school will subsequently fail and close. I wish we could say the same about the traditional schools.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
November 2nd, 2012
11:02 am
(G)uest,
Your initial comment is true. So when do we begin changing the culture?
A word of warning: Change agents are unwelcome in some parts of our society. Unfortunately, PubEd seems to be one of those parts.
As difficult as it might be to believe, there are many folks in and outside public education who must like the present arrangements. Sure don’t see many of the top-level educrats agitating for change.
John Barge and his team are change-agents. As such, theirs is a most difficult position.
bc
November 2nd, 2012
11:05 am
@Mellisa
Charter schools are public schools
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
11:06 am
“As for vouchers, I’ve always wondered why people want to live in an area where the schools are “bad”. ”
Uh, because some people CAN”T move – they don’t have the financial availbility. Imagine you live in Clayton County now – prices of houses are down nationwide, but in Clayton County, they are abysmal (who wants to BUY a house where the schools are crappy?). You can’t afford to sell to buy somewhere else. And your job may be in Clayton County. Parents should not be required to move to a new school district just because theirs is failing. Charter schools would give these parents options.
Bob
November 2nd, 2012
11:06 am
Misty “The Charter school will show an increase in graduation rate simply because their students are the ones who parents care enough to be involved.” Exactly, and these parents are tired of having their kids being shackled by the kids of the parents that do not care. The charters will attract students that have parents that care, the parents that do not care will not move their kids. This is a way for students to better themselves by not having time and resources spent on the 40% that end up quitting. 10 – 10 – 10 is not realistic and Thigpin should think about 10 – 9 – 4, much closer to reality even in a world with more charters.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
11:10 am
“all the charter schools in the universe won’t fix the real problems we are determined to ignore:
-disinterested parents
-an anti achievement/education mentality in many parts of US society”
Bootney, did you really read what you wrote? Of course charters will help with disinterested parents because THOSE parents won’t apply for charters. Same thing for the second mentality. THAT is the reason we need charters, so that parents who ARE interested in a good education for their children have the availability to give it to them (rather than being TRAPPED with the disinterested parents’ kids).
guest
November 2nd, 2012
11:17 am
Dr. Spinks,
To start, I think we need much harsher punishment across the board for committing crimes. We need to essentially scare the hell out of kids that prison is not some glorified right-of-passage, but instead some hell-hole that they never want to go to. Second, we need to cut back on government assistance. As long as people know the government teet is ready and willing, they will never change. Make them experience how bad life can suck with nothing and then they’ll change and hopefully teach their kids along the way.
Unfortunately, I feel this will never happen bc we have too many special interest groups in the country that will scream racism, sexism, etc.
Shar
November 2nd, 2012
11:18 am
Mr. Thigpen is slick, I’ll give him that. But his article is yet another in the queue of misrepresentations, misdirections and artful dodging of facts that are the best that proponents of this amendment can trot out to fool the voters.
There are two things he says that are correct: “Money and control are at the heart of the current debate about our state’s upcoming charter school vote” and “We are in desperate need of stronger leadership and higher standards in Georgia k-12 education.”
He proceeds to try to co-mingle charter schools with the solution to the two issues posed, and fails utterly. He fails to note that there is no research, no evidence that charter schools graduate more students, or achieve higher results than the “10-6-2″ he decries. He certainly tries to imply that, but he neither addresses it nor offers any information at all on charter performance. None. Read the article again – he is very good at making the reader THINK that charters are somehow “better” without actually putting forth any evidence of success. A slick con.
He also, like every other pro-amendment writer and speaker I’ve heard, tries to portray this amendment as a means of increasing charter schools, when it is not. It is indeed about “money and control”, but it wrests both out of local hands and puts them into the sticky fingers of state legislators and the cronies they appoint to grease the path of out of state corporations to drain our public investment in K12 education. If this thing passes, these cronies and their legislative sponsors, none of whom is required to have any background in education, will be given the power to put charters of their own design into communities that neither requested nor want them – and those communities will have no redress, since their own representatives won’t have the power to intervene. This opens the door to all the out of state corporations to “donate generously” to the legislators and impose their for-profit management, their own curricular agendas, their staffs and teachers who are not accountable locally but rather to their corporate employers and their no-bid provisioners on local districts whose only role is to pay for them, without any oversight or input. This explains why 96% of the money supporting this amendment is coming from out of state.
There is nothing in this amendment that gives parents, students or taxpayers any rights they do not currently have. It is ALL for the legislators and their pals. It is also not about charter schools, it is about the K12 budget, which the Georgia constitution and the Georgia Supreme Court has thus far held out of the reach of those greedy, grasping legislative fingers.
Mr. Thigpen ought to be ashamed of himself, but like most of the proponents of this measure he is apparently too driven by self-interest and the need to deceive voters to feel any sense of shame. His article is completely devoid of anything except insinuation and suggestion. He offers no facts about the supposed superiority of charter schools because there simply isn’t any – if such evidence existed we’d all have been inundated with it by now. Instead, he invokes everyone’s frustration with the current system and the poor results of our massive investment without offering any solutions at all.
Yes, Mr. Thigpen, we do need “stronger leadership and higher standards.” Unfortunately, you offer neither, and like too many education bureaucrats you are primarily concerned with your personal well being and are only too willing to dupe students, parents and taxpayers to bolster your own success.
sneak peak into education
November 2nd, 2012
11:21 am
Say no to bigger government to duplicate the process that is already there. This has nothing to do with charter schools; we already have a mechanism for that in place. By voting no does not mean you are against charter schools but against the drastic measure of;
1. Agreeing to give up your democratic vote at the local level.
2. Allowing our governor/ legislature to take control over where tax dollars are spent, even though they have shown that they are no friends of public schools.
3. Opening the flood gate of for-profit charters to come in and educate on the cheap while paying themselves huge wages (there are countless reports of the huge wages that the CEO’s of these schools are paying themselves and only a small portion goes to educating the students-see below for just one example)
4. The republican party can’t explain why they are supposed to stand for small government but wish to expand it when it fits into their paradigm of lining their pockets and that of their donor friends. Heck, even their tea-party friends have come out with a big NO to this amendment.
5. Charter school expansion will do nothing but take more funds away from our already cash-strapped schools system.
Changing the constitution is a serious matter and will be extremely difficult to change back. Once the sugar high for the proponents wears off, they will come back down to reality with a huge bump when they see the true effects that allowing the big, for-profit businesses from beyond both our state and national borders flood the market and provide education on the cheap. Please send a BIG MESSAGE to our legislature that they cannot privatize education and to back off-if we allow this, the next step will be vouchers and allowing teachers without certification to teach your children.
http://gbitchspot.com/gbitchspot/?p=3286
VOTE NO in NOvember.
Devil's Advocate
November 2nd, 2012
11:23 am
Mountain Man,
This issue started long before the economy went south. Besides, you bash on Clayton and Dekalb every chance you get so why do you care about those people? This issue affects everyone in GA, not just Clayton County. What does a family’s financial/housing situation have to do with changing how education works in this state? Are we going to repeal the potential change when the economy improves and everyone can afford to move whenever they want?
I mean students have been graduating from lesser schools for decades and living productive lives so it can be done if the student desires success in life. Everyone cannot and should not expect to have a smooth path through life. Sometimes we just have to overcome our past, take advantage of our current situation, and cut a new path for future success.
Bruce Kendall
November 2nd, 2012
11:24 am
Charter schools will not fix this. Only a community of engaged parents can fix this, and that includes all types of schools. If you look at the last five years of charter school data you will find the average charter does not perform significantly better or worse than the average public school. Yes, some years they perform worse.
Paul
November 2nd, 2012
11:26 am
Under Tyler Thigpen’s criteria of graduating from college by 21, both of my daughters would be considered “outside” his statistical analysis. One graduated by age 22 and qualified for HOPE the entire way. The other did not and struggled for a while and even took a year off from college to grow up a bit but she will graduate next spring at age 24 and has a firm plan for her life. Bottom line is that Mr. Thigpen’s 10-6-2 measure of the state of Georgia doesnt tell the whole story and his 10-10-10 is overly simplistic.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
11:36 am
Probably 20% quit so they can get a job and have some decent groceries at home. Probably 20% quit because schooling has lost it’s meaning. “guest” says put more people in prison and scare them. I guess they missed the part about the USA already has more people incarcerated than any country in the world, probably in the history of the world. More than Russia or China or any of those “boogah-boogah” bad places you’re always being told is the enemy. I once mentioned the US rate of incarceration at an informal teacher meeting at restaurant and one of my colleagues said, “I’m glad. It makes me feel safe and I’m willing to pay for it.”
The real subtext for the USA is absence of health care distribution, astronomic rate of housing people in prisons, and using debt/credit in place of services. Countries where they decriminalise drugs, the drug use goes down. So, think about that. Every since Reagan removed the anti-trust laws, allowing big companies to consumer little companies, and now the major medias are own by very few players, including your local internet service provider monopoly Comcast, you will hear nothing in the major medias about the astronomic rate of incarcerating people and the lack of health care distribution, but the minute you leave the borders of the USA, it is very apparent.
Charter school amendment will not change the 6 in 10 but it might give people more choice and maybe just a little less mono-culture and propaganda. And if you’re thinking of being a little crooked, go to Russia, China, and India and you’ll be a lot more free. Well, anywhere else in the world, really. Fight for your right to be a little crooked! down with prisons and prohibition laws! Up with public health and prosperity! Vote for Charter Schools! Break up the mono-culture!
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
11:40 am
ps the above is not an endorsement of illicit drugs, and fyi for anyone wondering, private citizen is stricken with no inclination toward such, but it would be nice if we applied money to build things instead of keeping humans in cages, and USA is the #1 in keeping humans in cages.
Mary Elizabeth
November 2nd, 2012
11:42 am
“But if nothing changes in our schools, then by the time these 10 kindergarteners are 18, only six of them will have graduated from high school.”
===============================================
You are correct in saying that “if nothing changes,” but what must change must be a collaborative effort between public charter schools and traditional public schools so that EVERY student is taught where he or she is functioning, in point of time, throughout his/her school career, whether he or she is functioning within a public charter school or within a traditional public school. A separate Commission of Charter Schools is not needed and will likely not foster this collaborative effort between traditional public schools and charter schools because the effort to create this state Commission has appeared to be more political than educational, imo.
Moreover, more than likely, those 4 students will be left in traditional public schools because their parents will not be able, for various reasons, to send them to a charter school. We must never forget the needs and the development of these 4 students (and others like them), even so. We must continue to support our tradtional public schools, and we must continue to fund well traditional public schools in order to continue to serve students such as the 4 kindergarten students mentioned above. We must not create so many public charter schools that we drain funds away from those students remaining in our traditional public schools. Public charter schools must be carefully assigned and they must work closely with traditional public schools, in a collaborative effort, for all of the public school students in Georgia.
Vote NO on NOvember 6 to Amendment 1.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
11:43 am
Craig Spinks You’re the very incarnation of what Charlotte Iserby talks about, using “change agents” to push a corporate agenda.
Bruce Kendall
November 2nd, 2012
11:44 am
@ DeKalb Inside Out. Roach is more correct than you are. Your reference to Nancy Jester is full of false assumptions. Her data is correct and incorrect. Correct because that may be what was funded (did not do a line item check), but incorrect because the state has been underfunding education since 2003. According to information released by Georgia Schools Superintendent John Barge, State-Government over the last eleven years has underfunded our children’s education using austerity cuts, a total of 6 trillion, 621 million, 912 thousand, and 468 dollars. If they cannot fund public education by law, where will they find funds for charters? Oh, and by the way, I support charters.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
11:50 am
Yesterday a local worker brought up to me the shortage of welders. He referenced the local tech. school and how they could not produce enough welders to meet demand. He said where the real money is at is in trades and not going to college. I was not directing the conversation, it was he who was volunteering this viewpoint. Here’s a news report on shortage of skilled trade workers. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/46674386#46674386
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
11:53 am
Hi Bruce Kendall
I don’t think there is any one thing we can do to fix education in Georgia. I am open to suggestions. Quite a few people have recommended many tools we can implement from dual enrollment to bootcamps. I like innovation and we should use every tool we have at our disposal including chartered schools. Without Amendment 1, state chartered schools are in jeopardy.
You say average charter schools do not perform significantly better or worse than the average public school. I ask you: So what? Parents know what is best for their children. If parents believe a state chartered school is better for their child, whether the data says it’s a better school or not, then a parent can send their child to a state chartered school. If parents do not believe the state chartered school is better, then it will fail and close.
Look at Cherokee Academy. A majority of the people fought charter schools tooth and nail because they allegedly were not necessary because Cherokee has great schools. Yet a state chartered school opened and some parents decided that the state chartered school would be better. That academy is alive and well today.
Amendment 1 is about giving parents choices and not forcing them to go to one school or another.
Future Gov
November 2nd, 2012
12:34 pm
To Dekalb Inside Out – For your information…If the Cherokee Acadmeny is doing so well, like you pointed out in your post, then why is it that one out of four students have left the academy and re-entered Cherokee County Public Schools?
Hillbilly D
November 2nd, 2012
12:45 pm
And yet, some of us who never spent a day in kindergarten or day care graduated from high school, relatively painlessly.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
12:50 pm
Health care costs dash dreams http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbcnews.com/49552554#49552554
Kris
November 2nd, 2012
1:17 pm
If the republicans think their tactic of withholding tax money from schools (like they are doing in Washington Trashing the economy for their gain). they are WRONG !
If (god forbid) f this pocket lining boondoggle passes Since GA is 48th in education will that make GEORGIA (with 2 systems 96th in education).
The solution is simple restore the money as required by the constitution to the public schools.
Elect all Government positione with strict term limita and very healthy fines for un ethical conduct.
Vote No on Amendment 1
http://www.votesmartgeorgia.com/
Anotther comment
November 2nd, 2012
1:27 pm
The writer’s 10-10-10 Philosophy is so flawed it isn’t funny. It just shows the ignorance that permeates the State. The State Law in Georgia mandates that you must be 5 by Sept. 1 of the school year to start Kindergarten. Therefore, only students born between June-, July, Aug, stand a chance of graduating from college in 4 year with a 4 year degree. Therefore 2 out of 10 when you only have 2.25 of the cohort with that opportunity is excellent. Especially, when you consider, the better private schools will not take a boy with a birthday later March- April or Girls after June. Then the private schools put many kids with birth dates after Jan.1 in Pre-1st between kindergarten and First Grade. The privates all hold back at least 1/3 of their Kindergartners for prefirst. I met one Pace high schooler Saturday night who told me she did 2 years of Pre-first.
It is also completely unrealistic that everyone needs a college degree. I supervised a Facilities Management staff of 210 employees at one time. We needed our plumbers, electricians, welders, carpenters, custodians, groundskeepers, just as much as our Engineers and Architects. Even some of my best Engineers did not want promotions to management that would have brought them $30k plus a year extra salary. We had a generator that came off an old submarine, I had to find a navy vet who had worked on Subs in the Navy and was now and electrician to care for this gem.
I will vote No, this guy does not know what he is talking about and can not make a rational argument based on fact.
Maureen Downey
November 2nd, 2012
1:34 pm
@To all, The AJC has a page of charter school related stories and info. If you want to read a lot about the issue, go here.
Steve Hickey
November 2nd, 2012
1:39 pm
Thought leadership: clear and bold and free of conflict of interest. Are schools there to employ teachers or are they there to better our children?
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
1:44 pm
The bloggers who talk about welding are correct – our local tech college says welders are hired directly out of their program. Our company has been looking for a mechanic for months (and our pay and benefits are excellent). One caveat: at our company and most companies you must have a high school diploma or GED, you must be able to read and speak English, and you must pass a drug test. You would be surprised how many applicants those requirements weed out. Then we want to know you have basic life skills such as being to work every day and on time. THAT weeds out a lot, also. So there are a lot of unemployed persons who are unemployed solely because of decisions that they have total control over.
bootney farnsworth
November 2nd, 2012
2:32 pm
@ mountain man,
charters are schools, not miracles. human nature being what it is, you may get a bump in parental activity for awhile, but soon it’ll be back to business as usual. parents who are far more concerned with
Honey Boo Boo and the Dawgs D-line 8th string backup than their own kids education.
bootney farnsworth
November 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
@ steve,
reality is, schools are there to
-provide a home for football
-provide jobs for administrative wonks who never teach
-serve as day care for children.
education has almost nothing to do with education.
JJ
November 2nd, 2012
2:43 pm
Just curious. Does everyone feel the overall University system is failing?? Only around 50% of kids who start college finish. These kids are generally in the top half of their graduating class and have to pay a substantial sum for the privilege of going to college. Why do we not view this as failure???
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
2:47 pm
“Only around 50% of kids who start college finish. These kids are generally in the top half of their graduating class and have to pay a substantial sum for the privilege of going to college. Why do we not view this as failure???”
Because they are there by CHOICE. Maybe we should tighten admission requiremnts so the bottom half don’t get in initially? Is that what you are advocating? Not everyone is cut out to have a college degree.
Jehosephat
November 2nd, 2012
3:03 pm
I think many of you are missing the point of this article. To be sure, he does not touch on every aspect of the issue. What I do understand Mr. Thigpen to be saying seems quite simple. Georgia needs to hold higher standards in education. For a school to maintain charter status, it must agree to outperform neighboring schools in a number of distinct ways. Therefore, a higher standard is being held, which will create healthy competition and all around better performance.
Ron
November 2nd, 2012
3:07 pm
So k-12 needs higher standards? Has the author heard of the common core curriculum? Hence, higher standards are already in place. Duh!
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
3:08 pm
Bruce,
Nancy Jester is full of false assumptions – Really? Full of them? Please delineate.
Her numbers come straight from the DOE.
http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/fin_pack_revenue.display_proc
[Her numbers are] incorrect because the state has been underfunding education since 2003 – Nobody ever said the state was fully funding education. I don’t think the state has ever fully funded Q.B.E. Who said either of those?
I’m saying the local counties are making up for the austerity cuts by the state. I’m saying the school districts have received more and more money every year for the last 16 years while the quality of education has only declined. I’m guessing more money for the school districts is not the answer.
where will [the state] find funds for charters
Answer: Capital funds
The state’s total FY2012 appropriations: $15.9 billion.
Appropriations for Education: $9.97 billion
Amount of money spent on charters commissioned by the state: $56.1 million
So, 62% of state appropriates goes to education. 0.35% (less than half of 1%) of state appropriates goes to funding state charters.
I [Roach] support charters – Cool. How do you support charters?
Ron
November 2nd, 2012
3:10 pm
Here’s another view: the public schools are doing their part; are parents and students doing theirs? Many kids don’t want to learn and you can’t make them. So siphoning off funding from public schools is no assurance (or evidence) that such an amendment is necessary.
catlady
November 2nd, 2012
3:11 pm
I believe, most of the time, IT IS NOT THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE FAILING. It is the students who are failing (to use the opportunities available to them.) We must ask ourselves why? Few schools in the world come close to the opportunities available to the average kid in the United States. The opportunities are there. We cannot mandate that students use the opportunities many in other countries would die to have.
Do schools have problems? Yes. There ARE things that schools could do to make the opportunities more easily used by students. First and foremost, there must be the political will to get the misbehaving students OUT of the way of the other students. I believe in many countries, even very poor countries, students are required to behave in an appropriate manner or be dismissed. We need to return to this.
Second, I think schools have to resist being used as the agents of change for EVERYTHING. Fat? Out of shape? Need various services? Need to learn correct behavior? The schools are going to have to STOP trying to meet every need that “the public” tries to dump on them.
Ron
November 2nd, 2012
3:13 pm
@Bootney Farnsworth (2:34): I guess increased SAT scores and graduation rates are just fabrications if you think education isn’t working. It certainly is. Look at the middle grades curriculum and tell me we’re not pushing too much on kids to learn these days.
Ron
November 2nd, 2012
3:16 pm
Catlady, I agree with you. Good points!
Ron
November 2nd, 2012
3:19 pm
@ Jehosephat (3:03): I don’t think you’ll be satisfied unless every child is studying and doing homework 24/7, which is what increasingly the notion of “higher standards” results in.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Future Gov
If the Cherokee Acadmeny is doing so well, like you pointed out in your post, then why is it that one out of four students have left the academy and re-entered Cherokee County Public Schools?
Why did they leave? Because they didn’t want to go to that school and they have the choice to go to another public school. Heck Yeah, Future Gov !! That’s what I’m talking about. It’s nice to have choices … even in Cherokee County. That’s what state chartered schools are all about.
Nope
November 2nd, 2012
3:29 pm
I worked with a Charter School corporation on a project and I was APPALLED at how stupid, unorganized and unethical they were. It was all I needed to know I would NEVER support these schools.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
3:33 pm
“So k-12 needs higher standards? Has the author heard of the common core curriculum?”
We are not talking about higher EDUCATIONAL standards. Those are fine (and are being ignored in the lower-performing schools).
We are talking about general standards: discipline, attendance, social promotion, spending on special ed students, parental involvement. These are standards that traditional schools are in the gutter on. How many students in APS miss an inordinate amount of school from being late or absent? You can’t teach an empty desk. When they come back, does the teacher now have to take valuable time to “catch the student up”? How can a teacher teach when he/she is dealing with disciplinary problems? Will the administrators help? Of course…NOT!
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
3:36 pm
“I worked with a Charter School corporation on a project and I was APPALLED at how stupid, unorganized and unethical they were”
Got any proof or you just want us to take you at your word?
By the way, I work at a charter school and 100% of our students scored a perfect 2400 on the SAT, even though they were only in the eighth grade. And 50% have scolarships to Ivy League colleges already.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
3:38 pm
“First and foremost, there must be the political will to get the misbehaving students OUT of the way of the other students. I believe in many countries, even very poor countries, students are required to behave in an appropriate manner or be dismissed. We need to return to this.”
No excrement, Mr. Holmes.
Just A Teacher
November 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
These discussions have become tedious. Of course I’m not going to give Nathan Deal and his right wing, public education hating cohorts my permission to loot money from public schools. The only thing these pro charter people can do to try and sway voters is spend mega bucks on TV commercials and write in vague terms about how charter schools will improve education. The truth is their debate tactics are . . . WE CAN YELL LOUDER THAN YOU, SO GIVE US THE MONEY! I’m not a frightened child. I am an intelligent adult who understands that all children do deserve a good education. That’s why I’m voting not to siphon off any more funds from public schools.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
3:41 pm
Ron
SAT Scores – I don’t think SAT scores in Georgia could have gone down any further. As of 2011, average SAT scores had been declining for 4 years. Georgia was ranked 48th out of 50 states in SAT scores. 2012 did see an improvement in test scores.
Generally speaking, how would you rank education in Georgia and by what standards?
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
3:42 pm
“I guess increased SAT scores and graduation rates are just fabrications if you think education isn’t working.”
Ron – in case you don’t know, the SAT is not taken by ALL students – certaily not by those who have already dropped out, so it is not a measure of general education.
Second – increased graduation rates – did you know that we do NOT require the GHSGT any more? Even when we DID require it, you could apply for and get a diploma (a variance) if you tried several times and still failed it. So what good are increased diplomas if they don’t mean anything?
jarvis
November 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
Yes….vote with this idiot.
If you read that nonsense above, and think that a single causal relationship between this Amendment and the states 24% college graduation rate, by all means vote for the amendment. Because like the author, you are an idiot.
Let me be clear, I don’t think everyone voting for the Amendment is an idiot, but this author and anyone gullible enought to believe that schlitz is too.
Site your reports, and let me tell you 1. How you’ve misinterpreted the data to begin with. 2. How you have jumped to a nonexistent conclusion.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
3:46 pm
“WE CAN YELL LOUDER THAN YOU, SO GIVE US THE MONEY! ”
Sounds just like what the teachers and the traditional educational establishment have been saying:
“[Her numbers are] incorrect because the state has been underfunding education since 2003 “
Kris
November 2nd, 2012
3:46 pm
JJ “Just curious. Does everyone feel the overall University system is failing?? Only around 50% of kids who start college finish.”
Failed with a Big F (primarily the administration.).
There is a little Junior college in N Georgia ( impersonate a 4 yr.) Their first year students who get trapped in their development studies program have a 85% drop out rate…. The charge is 4 credit hours for the Development class vs a regular Credit class is 3 credits… What’s sad is that 90% of the trapped students can probably pass regular math and English classes if given a chance..Wonder why HOPE is broke. The math test is rigged. Most college grads cannot pass it….So we get them through K-12 then what over priced colleges that only offer a paper Degree…
Vote NO to Amendment 1
William Casey
November 2nd, 2012
3:51 pm
There is no way that schools directly controlled by a board appointed by governor Deal will be any better than what we have now. It would just create an expensive parallel bureaucracy of political appointees. I voted “NO.”
jarvis
November 2nd, 2012
3:53 pm
Free private schools do not exist.
Warrior Woman
November 2nd, 2012
3:54 pm
There is nothing inadequate about public school funding. There is, however, abundant excessive spending on cetnral office staff that are out of touch with reality; a shortsighted refusal to discipline and control students that don’t wish to learn; and inadequate opportunities for above average students. More charter schools could help with two of these three problems, and might result in school management that has a grasp on reality to boot.
William Casey
November 2nd, 2012
3:56 pm
BTW: MOUNTAIN MAN is absolutely correct. Until discipline problems are removed from the classroom, little else will matter.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
4:01 pm
I am voting YES
williebkind
November 2nd, 2012
4:02 pm
“Free private schools do not exist.”
Free public schools do not exist.!!
jarvis
November 2nd, 2012
4:03 pm
Agreed willie, but I’m not trying to make one.
Mountain Man
November 2nd, 2012
4:05 pm
Amen, Warrior Woman @ 3:54!!!
DeKalb Inside Out
November 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm
Just A Teacher
loot money from public schools – How does this amendment loot money from public schools. All local money stays with the local school district. For every child that goes to a state chartered school, the local school district has more money per child to spend on education in their district.
Not a fan of parental school choice or market theory?
I see you’re not a huge fan of Nathan Deal or his esteemed right wing colleagues either. Consider the merits of the amendment and not necessarily where it comes from. I can appreciate a thoughtful vote either way.
Whirled Peas
November 2nd, 2012
4:18 pm
Nice to see Maureen give a voice to reason.
Momofone
November 2nd, 2012
4:31 pm
Mountain Man, why are you so against special ed students? Do you know that some special ed students have above average IQ? Should they not be educated just because they do not learn in the environment of the typical classroom?
I wish people would quit blaming parents as “not being involved”. I was involved in my son’s education. His IQ is about 130. He dropped out of high school. We all learn in different ways. He could not handle the reptition and slowness of most classes.
The lady in the article said only 2 of the students will have graduated college by the time they are 21. Since most students graduate high school at 18 and it takes 4 years go get a Bachelor’s degree, should she be looking at how many graduate college at age 22 or 23?
I have an advanced college degree but do not believe everyone should have a college degree.
I’d also like to know why everyone thinks social promotion is something that happens a lot. It does not happen!
Nope
November 2nd, 2012
4:43 pm
Yes Mountain Man. I worked on a project with Mosaica her in Atlanta and I was stunned at how they were incapable of organizing and producing any number of projects.
Nope
November 2nd, 2012
4:44 pm
“By the way, I work at a charter school and 100% of our students scored a perfect 2400 on the SAT, even though they were only in the eighth grade. And 50% have scolarships to Ivy League colleges already.”
Got any proof are we supposed to just take your word? 100% PLEASE.
Another comment
November 2nd, 2012
4:46 pm
My kids miss alot of school from public school, because they are bored to death. They constantly claim they have headaches, stomache aches, etc… I know the truth, they are bored to death. Yesterday, my daughter had to sit thru kids in PE class getting the 2 hr. part of Class Room Driver’s Ed. for Free. We paid for that over the Summer of 2000 at Westminster. She already Sat through it in Health class in the Fall of 2000, now this. What a waste of 2 days. She has had her drivers license for almost 2 years. Taking this is part of Caleb’s law. Parents should pay for this not the school, teaching it for free and wasting everyones time. Then today, they had a Sub in Physics, another waste of my daughter’s time even going to school. The subs do nothing in these class.
My other daughter told me her class went to a Muslim Temple today, but she didn’t bother to give me the permission slip, because she didn’t want to go. So she totally wasted her day going to school today. So are they going to take them to a Catholic Church, a Jewish Temple, a Budhist temple, a Hindu Temple and everything else. We have to sing at Christian Chruch, for our Spring Perfomance for Chorus.
My kids are both A students. But they are both so bored, I really can’t support them going to school and being bored. We need to stop mixing the kids. When I went to school there were no special Ed kids in our school. The one kid with Autism, was gone, after he Tommy ( durring the Who’s “Tommy can you hear me” era stabbed the teacher with a pencil). We very simply did not have the districtions that my kids have to put up with.
We didn’t have these awful disfunctional districts. We had one high school per district. Both sets of Grandparents moved to the area in the 1930’s to raise families, no one had to move around every couple of years when someone rezoned a school line trying to find a better school. My nephews went to middle school in the school that my parents went to high school in the 1940’s. They built a new High School in the 1970’s.
mountain man
November 2nd, 2012
4:59 pm
“Got any proof are we supposed to just take your word? 100% PLEASE”
Nah, I was lying through my teeth.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
5:12 pm
jarvis a lot of coutries have revenue sharing with lots of types of what we call K-12 schools. The USA is the odd one out with it’s weird tax the people and send the money exclusively to the government schools. We’re also the odd one out when it comes to distribution of health care. We’re also the odd one out when it comes to putting so many people in prisons – #1 in the world per capita. It’s all there in the OECD reports if you care to read them.
It is really a little confronting to these various comments from the great international city Atlanta that seem both completely uninformed about the rest of the civilized world, and even more so, arrogantly disinterested and buying into some kind of exclusive mentality. Democracy depends on an informed populace. Some of you might do some schoolin’ on the OECD reports. I’m not trying to be a know-it-all, but really people, get some basic information on how schools are funded across the world. Most of the them do some form of revenue sharing between the various types of schools, mixing government schools with religious, military, trade, prepatory, and whatever else you can think of. I don’t thing the vacuum cleaner was invented in Georgia but everybody seems to think the government schools have the right to vacuum up all the money and if you want anything different, pay again. I don’t think I’ve ever used the word “entitled” in my life, but maybe it is the case that the government schools feel entitled to your money, and the uninformed populace supports it all the way to the tax office. Just sayin’ – it’s a big world out there and the Georgia way is pretty exclusive to Georgia. You ought to have a look around and be informed. I’d start with Belgium, but the OECD reports will give you an overview. They spend $350 million a year making their reports and the U. S. is a member country, so since you are paying for it, you might want to have a look at the information.
AlreadySheared
November 2nd, 2012
5:20 pm
@mountain man
I got it, but sarcasm can be tough in an online forum.
Or with mouth breathers.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
5:20 pm
-Probably make more sense to do revenue sharing with private schools but the government school bunch would lose their minds and hit the ceiling. Somebody once said government schools are about controlling people.
Personally, I like to live where there is production. You know, source of wealth? Odd how that seems to be such an alien concept in much of Georgia, content to live off the backs of other people’s work and innovation. Strike a pose! Make a claim! Express an opinion! Produce? Distribute? What, are you crazy? That sounds like entitlement – a word pretty much unused outside of the FoxNews media zone in the United States.
AlreadySheared
November 2nd, 2012
5:25 pm
I gotta run. My girlfriend, Scarlett Johansen, just called up and wants me to come over.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
5:27 pm
Ooh wee, some parents can get real hot when you start doing that field-trip-to-visit-the-temples thing. Time to jump in the truck and go grab the kid for a showdown! -Any teacher that takes Georgia government school children on a field trip to visit the temples is a brave brave soul.
Pride and Joy
November 2nd, 2012
5:54 pm
Private Citizen — we do need to put humans in cages. Jerry Sandusky needs one and thousands like him.
to say that we don’t need prisons, well, would you want Jerry Sandusky coaching football to your sons?
…be realistic.
lahopital
November 2nd, 2012
6:38 pm
“My kids miss alot of school from public school, because they are bored to death. They constantly claim they have headaches, stomache aches, etc”
Sounds like you’re raising some real little angels there.
Sam
November 2nd, 2012
6:58 pm
Seriously, high school is not hard.
Rafe Hollister
November 2nd, 2012
8:00 pm
I’m voting yes, trying to save the kids I can. The theory that we can save them all is not working, has never worked, and never will work. The ones who want to learn and have parents that support them deserve better than what they currently have to suffer through. As long as we are not discriminating and give everyone the opportunity to take advantage of a better way, we owe it to the kids to do so.
10:10 am
November 2nd, 2012
8:03 pm
I too voted “yes” on the charter-school amendment.
While the money being squandered in an anti-reform crusade by local NEA affiliates would have been more than enough to ensure my antipathy—Kyle Wingfield’s several excellent columns on the topic give substance to arguments in favor of the amendment.
ref: http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/10/26/follow-the-money-for-anti-charter-amendment-campaign-too/
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
8:07 pm
Pride and Joy I accept the challenge to be realistic.
The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, “three strikes” laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes.
Pride and Joy, you may brace yourself for the red ink in the chart at the top of this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States The curve on increased incarceration looks like the side of a witch hat – sharp angle straight up. This is completely crazy. Incarcerating people has been turned into big business, big for-profit business. It is difficult to relate to but we must own it. It is being done in our country. And think of the amount of money being spent to cage these non-violent offenders although, according to the link, the incarceration rate is being marketed as protecting the public from violent offenders.
U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandatory sentencing that came about during the “war on drugs.” Violent crime and property crime have declined since the early 1990s
teaching taxpayer
November 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm
I support charter schools, and I wish I could vote for Amendment 1. Our legislature and governor could have given us an amendment that would let the VOTERS elect the people who spend our tax dollars on state charter schools. But no. Amendment 1 would let Nathan Deal APPOINT his cronies to spend taxpayer money. Vote NO to unelected, unaccountable Deal cronies spending YOUR money!
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
8:21 pm
PS One day was a heavy pouring rain. I was waiting it out a little under the awning of a store so as hopefully not to get drenched going to the car. While waiting I talked to a fine fit and good natured young man. He said he had just gotten out of jail. I asked him about it and he said he had been in jail for six months due to the police finding one “joint” in his car. I immediately winced when I thought of the implications for his future work, having this weight around his neck.
Meanwhile other countries decriminalize this type of drug use, and / or allow people to grow their own marijuana at home for personal consumption. I’ve got no use for such drugs personally, but I admire countries that shephard their money and exercise care that money is spent in a way to care for their populace, as opposed to what I think of as harassing and punishing people according to a system that has now been made to profit stock-holders in prison companies, which is completely immoral when looked at with the incarceration policies and recent 4x increase in prison population. In many ways, it tracks with the increase in testing that results in money paid out to for-profit testing companies. During the same time period that the prison population has increased x4, the amount of testing in schools has increased x4. I wish Mr. Barge could connect these concepts and apply real meaning to them, but for some reason that I will not ever understand, “guys like him” (no disrespect intended) seem to go along with this stuff even in contrast what any sane systems engineer or analyst would determine as a startling, expensive, and connected system that is soaking the populace for money, penalizing simple souls, and being immorally used for gain by the few individuals willing to exploit these means.
Janet
November 2nd, 2012
8:31 pm
It seems a large part of the argument is that kids in, for lack of a better word, “crappy” schools will get a better education in a charter because the worthless un-involved parents and their apathathetic and often violent offspring won’t bother to transfer to a charter. Thus, leaving it for those who care about education.
That theory does make sense… in the short term. But I would think eventually there would me mass consoidations of the traditional public schools due to lack of enrollment/cost saving measures which would lead to alot of kids having to be bussed really long distances. Wouldn’t eventually those “bad seeds” start to make the switch to charters rather than be bussed all the way across town to the next closest “crappy” traditional school.
I haven’t heard anyone talking about how all of this might play out in the long term. It seems naive to me to think that the “bad kids” will just stay in the “bad schools” forever. Also, I think eventually there is a potential for lawsuits reguarding fairness and equality in the quality of publicly funded education. My point is, I don’t think the “bad kids/parents” will stay in the shadows forever.
mountain man
November 2nd, 2012
8:45 pm
“My point is, I don’t think the “bad kids/parents” will stay in the shadows forever.”
MY hope is that the charter schools would have the ability (and the willpower) to actually enforce discipline and attendance rules, and would retain students who fail a grade – things that “traditional” schools won’t do. Bad kids/ bad parents can try to get into charterss, but to stay there they will have to accept and live within the rules. Like they should be doing in “traditional” schools.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm
Unrelated to education, the U. S. also needs to take responsibility for the havoc being wreaked in Mexico due to U. S. drug consumption. This could be largely remedied by producing the drugs in the U. S. Similarly, there is an area of Canada that produces a lot of marijuana that is imported to the U. S. This area of Canada is already wealthy due to abundant natural resources, timber, etc. and they’re laughing all the way to the bank with the huge influx of money due to producing marijuana to meet the American demand for the product.
Related to education, if the drug prohibitions were figured out and taxed and U. S. drug use treated as a public health issue, this would go a long way toward providing money to fund both health care and education, although it would require a reconceptualization of local law enforcement who have been trained to prosecute personal-use drug offenders. If you want better and resourced schools, I think it would literally “pay” to take an interest in these issues. The U. S. appetite for illicit drugs and in particular “soft drugs” i.e. marijuana is not reducing. Would make more sense to decriminalize and tax it, stop spending money incarcerating people for personal soft-drug use, and take responsibility on the gang war mayhem in Mexico that is the direct result of U. S. drug consumption. It’s the only right, correct, and responsible thing to do. With drugs treated as a public health issue, this is the sole way for drug use to lessen and to take the steam out of the appeal of use. The distinction between “soft” drugs and “hard” drugs is that soft drugs do not particularly injure people, whereas hard drugs seriously injure the users. Currently we are spending an awful lot of money incarcerating soft drug users and additionally losing the tax monies that can be made by regulating distribution. And there is the additional moral responsibility that U. S. drug consumption is putting real hardship on the people of Mexico. I used to enjoy crossing the border to have lunch to do tourist shopping. Now I would not do so for fear of getting machined gunned by a drug supply gang.
In addition to exploiting resources for the public good, there is also the added benefit that decriminalizing soft drugs would make for less of the “Red Dog” approach to policing. Currently in a lot of places in the U. S., you’re taking your life in your hands if you call 911 for a legitimate reason. There is no telling what can happen when the amped up police show up, trained as they have been to use swat tactics for many situations. I’m thankful that the police are mostly still community oriented where I live, but many places this is not the case.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
9:12 pm
And I quoth:
“This excerpt was taken from abcnews.com:
Contrasting government figures for traditional crops — like corn and wheat — against the study’s projections for marijuana production, the report cites marijuana as the top cash crop in 12 states and among the top three cash crops in 30.
The study estimates that marijuana production, at a value of $35.8 billion, exceeds the combined value of corn ($23.3 billion) and wheat ($7.5 billion).”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_is_spent_on_marijuana_yearly
________________________
Imagine the revenue dollars available by managing, regulating, and taxing distribution and keeping the production in the United States, as well as money saved from stopping the incarceration of personal use of soft drugs. Might be time for a little savoir faire (know how) on the subject. It’s your country and it’s your money.
Private Citizen
November 2nd, 2012
9:22 pm
Larry King agrees. http://video.answers.com/larry-king-on-marijuana-legalization-517496502
mountain man
November 2nd, 2012
9:23 pm
Private Citizen – I am torn about the legalization of drugs. I would like to see “soft” drugs legalized, but my only issue is that we have not effectively dealt with our current legal drug of choice – alcohol. Too many people are dying every day from the effects of this legal drug.
Legalization would help with the subsidiary effects of drug use – burglary and other crimes in order to get illegal drugs – maybe.
mountain man
November 2nd, 2012
9:26 pm
For example – how would you set legal limits on being under the influence of marijuana? Or cocaine?
M Phillips
November 2nd, 2012
9:43 pm
I firmly believe this is step one to completely dismantle public education. Vouchers didn’t work, so now it’s charter schools. Charters are not a cure-all. There are great charters, just like there are great public schools. The people in favor of this amendment claim to be small government advocates…until the smallest level of government disagrees with them. Its hypocrisy at it’s best. The budget impacts on public school systems will be dramatic.
Janet
November 2nd, 2012
9:56 pm
@M Phillips – Or anyone else who can answer this question. Forgive my ignorance… but do you know if or how a district with good public schools (who do not want charters) will be affected by those neighboring districts that do?
I live in South Forsyth County where the traditional public schools are great and parent participation is a mommy eat mommy/cut throat gig (ie very competitive). I am having trouble understanding how, or even if, I would be affected by this ammendment and charters in general. Will funding for my school be taken away? Or is funding only on a district by district basis? So if Central Forsyth or North Forsyth districts want to bring in Charters, will my South Forsyth school be affected?
Cobb mom of 4
November 2nd, 2012
11:21 pm
I’ve already voted NO on the Charter school amendment even though:
I agree with the idea of Charter schools and even sent my son to one for a short period of time.
Even though the schools in my area of Cobb are so bad that I have pulled all three of my school-age kids and put them in private school.
Even though the private school tuition for 3 is definitely a financial burden that I wish I didn’t have to undertake.
I voted NO because I do not want my tax dollars used in a for-profit education SCAM.
I voted NO because I am appalled at the biased wording of the amendment.
I voted NO because this poorly worded amendment is going to change our state Constitution and very few are upset that this is a slippery slope.
I voted NO because I resent Corporations insinuating themselves into our lives as they have resently, even to the point of telling us who to vote for.
I voted NO because I don’t trust Nathan Deal.
Beverly Fraud
November 3rd, 2012
5:50 am
Let’s cut though ALL the fog and get down to brass tacks. This amendment offers two choices:
Vote “Yes” and introduce Somali pirates into education mix, under the guise of “competition”
Vote “No” and allow the North Korean government continue to run things, under the guise of “local control”
Ain’t Georgia grand? Plus, we got FISHIN!
Rodney
November 3rd, 2012
7:48 am
I am tired of seeing that little black girl on those commervials for charter schools. This is GA and if you see a black face on tv supporting something the Governor wants dont just vote no vote hell NO! I voted hell no last week. Keep education in local hands period. Yes I am black.
Jack
November 3rd, 2012
7:51 am
The failing 40% were born in homes to parents who had already failed.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 3rd, 2012
7:55 am
Janet,
Good and fair question. I am an advocate for the charter school amendment. I hope those who oppose this amendment will correct me if I’m wrong or let me know if I am spinning anything.
Cherokee is similarly situated. They arguably have some of the best schools in the country. A majority of the Cherokee residents feel that their traditional schools are as good as schools are going to get or at least good enough. This a minority of the community that wanted chartered schools. Cherokee Academy was turned down by the local board, but the state granted them a charter. Many parents feel that the charter school is better for them and many parents feel that the traditional school is better for them. Either way they have a choice. Every state chartered school is different. It is impossible to say if a chartered school in South Forsyth will be better for you or not.
Funding
Funding affects of funding is obviously an important part. All local money, property taxes and sales taxes, stay with the local school district. State money follows the child. Ultimately, that means for every child that goes to a state chartered school the school district has more money per child to spend on education. The local school district has fewer students and less total dollars.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I hope the opposition will correct me if I misstated anything.
DeKalb Inside Out
November 3rd, 2012
7:59 am
M Philips,
this is step one to completely dismantle public education – I have heard this comment before. Please explain how state chartered schools dismantles public education in any way. All local money stays with the local school district. For every child that goes to a state chartered school, there is more money per child for the local school district to educate students.
I see more money per child as a way of helping the local school districts. I want to do whatever it takes to help traditional schools. Please let me know what that plan is.
AnnieAD
November 3rd, 2012
8:48 am
Misleading headline and statistic: “graduation rates” are actually “four year completion rates” meaning that if a student takes even one summer longer to graduate he/she is cow Ted as a drop out. Students who receive Special Education diplomas are counted as drop outs as well.
The “graduation rate” of a private school reflects students who may or may not take longer than 4 years to graduate. Private schools do not accept severely handicapped and special needs children.
94% of children in Georgia attend public schools. They are our future workforce.
VOTE NO to taking money away from their education so that state leaders can cater to special interests group.
Pardon My Blog
November 3rd, 2012
8:52 am
Perhaps the only answer is to privatize all the schools and run them like a business. The tax dollars would “follow the child”as parentoftwo suggested and competition for the best students and best teachers would raise the bar. However, this would only work for those kids who want to be there and the parents or guardians who actually are interested in their child receiving an education.
AnnieAD
November 3rd, 2012
8:54 am
Janet, the state portion of the FTE funding for a child in Forsyth Cpunty would go to the State Charter schools as a result of State Charter Commission Schools. Already, this is happening.
The public needs to be aware also that Title I federal money was diverted last March from every school district to give to 3 State Commision schools. If you want to confirm this, contact Margo Delaune at the Georgia Department of Education.
A Conservative Voice
November 3rd, 2012
9:24 am
Yeah, OK, you wanna go back to pre-integration days, i. e., segregated schools, vote for the charter school amendment. Folks, all it’s gonna do is create more problems and lower the already low status of the public schools (non-charter) that are left and create even more discipline problems, if that’s really possible. Everybody’s looking for a fix for our ps problems when the answer is right there in front of your face and our USDOE is too stupid and liberal……oops, that’s redundant, sorry. HOLD THE PARENTS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CHILDREN WHO CREATE PROBLEMS AND FINE THE H*LL OUT OF THEM IF THEY DON’T TAKE CARE OF IT. IF THEY CAN’T PAY THE FINE, LOCK ‘EM UP. Granted, it’ll take a while to straighten it out but, it will begin to improve. Again, you’ve got to hold the parents responsible…….Remember, VOTE RESPONSIBLY ON NOVEMBER 6, 2012.
davidaub
November 3rd, 2012
9:33 am
My take is that the local public school system does not perform. The state legislators see the charter schools as a less expensive means of improving education. There is no doubt that a charter school in most cases will outperform the public school due to parental involvement, This however does not fix the public school system. I think we should fix the problem at the local level-Do not place state autorities in the equation-Hold the locals accountable. Vote No and face the problem head on.
Bill Mackinnon
November 3rd, 2012
10:11 am
Not every child is able to go all the way through graduate school, nor through college. We should require every child to have a high school diploma. Our culture essentially requires this for anything remotely approaching a decent job (debatable, I know).
Real reform should start at Kindergarten, and advance one grade level each year. Identify the progress of each child each year to insure they have learned the reading, thinking and math skills at each level. Give them the resources they need and are necessary to achieve. Involve the parents through out reach as early as possible. Bring in the volunteer mentors for individual children who need at the first indication of need.
Trying to reform all grades at once with “comprehensive” programs has not worked, ever. The ones who need to be brought to grade level are not helped en mass.
Ronin
November 3rd, 2012
10:19 am
101-10-10 is not realistic. It’s the basic model that everyone needs to go to college, “as that is where you’ll earn the most money and most jobs will be.” Hogwash.
We have oversold college at the expense of vocational trades. Not everyone should be on the college track to work in corporate America. When all the corporate drones were getting their walking papers, electricians and plumbers stayed busy.
Everyone wants to live in a 2 million dollar house, no one want to fix it.
Bill Mackinnon
November 3rd, 2012
10:21 am
DeKalbinsideout- if you believe there will be more money for each child, you have not been paying attention to the legislature – they have cut more than $1 billion from the State education budget over the last several years. The politicians, without any voter control (read that as no elective process), will suck money from the local tax base to give to charter schools the commission authorizes. If local BOE’s refuse to authorize charters, they can voted out of office. Voters have no such power wit the charter commission.
Bill Mackinnon
November 3rd, 2012
10:53 am
@Private Citizen re: skyrocketing and mass incarceration. What you haven’t stated is that the overwhelming percentage are black men. It is the new Jim Crow (read “The New Jim Crow”). These men are taken from their families, put in jail, on probation and parole for long periods of time, removed from the voter rolls, consigned to very low wage jobs ( if they can find a job), and marginalized to second class status. They are removed as productive citizens. Studies show over and over that drug use is no more prevalent among black and brown populations than white, yet black and brown citizens are an overwhelming majority of felons under public safety control. These men are not available to their families to support their children in schools. The number of poor, single parent households only increases, consigning their children to downward spiral of poverty, school failure. Yes, we can blame individuals for their bad choices, yet if your only choice is crime because, as a felon, you can’t work, get unemployment, housing, TANF benefits or any other social support. Not mention the SCOTUS eviscerating the 14th amendment rights (search and seizure protection). Charter school commission will do NOTHING to alleviate any of this.
Truth in Moderation
November 3rd, 2012
10:56 am
For-profit Charter schools and corrupted public schools are two sides of the same coin. The taxpayer is on the hook for corruption from either side. At this late date, the only solution for the gangrene is amputation. The real amendment that should be passed is one that would RESTORE our original State Constitution by overturning the Compulsory Education amendment. Public school is a forced monopoly, and as such, attracts massive fraudsters. These same fraudsters gain political control through political donations and tax exempt foundations. Wake up! The system is BROKEN beyond repair! Citizens must cut off this element AT THE SOURCE. Parents, take responsibility and educate your own kids. Those with religious charitable leanings, use your 501c3 status to provide schools for the poor. Those parents who will not care for their kids will personally suffer the consequences. We must put PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY back into the equation. If you are warned to evacuate because a storm is coming, and you refuse, you just might end up without food and water for an extended amount of time. IT WAS YOUR CHIOCE. Why should others put themselves in harm’s way to come rescue FOOLISH YOU?
Of course, government schools aren’t the only institutions overrun with fraud. Why were taxpayers left holding the bag when “too big to fails” did? The documented FRAUD that led up to this event is discussed in depth by Bill Black, former bank regulator during the ’80’s S&L crisis. He and his team sent thousands of banker frauds TO JAIL. After “criminal deregulation” exactly ZERO bankers went to jail for “liar loan” mortgage fraud which precipitated the 2008 TAXPAYER bailout!
Find out how Bill Black put those in pinstripes, into horizontal stripes:
http://backbillblack.com/bill-black/
AlreadySheared
November 3rd, 2012
10:57 am
@DeKalb Inside Out
Re Cherokee County Schools. Maybe best in state (I don’t know). “Best in country” is pushing it a bit, don’t you think?
DeKalb Inside Out
November 3rd, 2012
11:14 am
Conservative Voice,
state charter schools are segregated schools – Why do you say that? State chartered schools have attendance zones and cannot pick and choose their students just like traditional schools.
State chartered schools will create more problems and lower the status of public schools – We have had state chartered schools for years. How do you blame the decline of traditional schools on state chartered schools? I would argue traditional schools are decline whether we have state chartered schools or not.
We are all looking for fix – Yes, but nobody believes state chartered schools is the cure. This amendment is just another tool.
Hold parents responsible – Amen to that. Let’s make that happen. Fines and jail aren’t going to go over very well with the public in general, but I applaud where you are going. I do like the idea of public boot camps and public reform schools … but I don’t think that’s going to go over very well either.
Question
While we are trying to hold parents responsible, can we also have state chartered schools? I don’t see why we can’t advocate for both.
Tony
November 3rd, 2012
11:29 am
@Maureen – I ran across this today. In it is a reference to a former APS teacher whose test results were implicated as part of the cheating scandal. Now, that former APS teacher is running for school board in Minnesota. http://nepc.colorado.edu/blog/telling-fibs-america
It seems that TFA experience automatically qualifies one to be an authority on matters of public education. It usually takes years of study and experience to become an expert.
Regarding this blog topic, Mr. Thigpen is wrong on so many of his points it is not funny. More scrutiny needs to be applied.
Cobbian
November 3rd, 2012
11:59 am
Big, BIG mistake to let our legislature be in charge of charter schools. Granting charters will become another trough which monied interests will fill with campaign contributions upon which political pigs will feed. It will not make education better. After years of cutting funding to education in this state it will only be another way for the legislature to divert money from public schools and put it in private schools.
Support public education by supporting local schools boards. Keep an eye on them, but support them.
Dunwoody Mom
November 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm
As someone who was previously adamantly opposed to this amendment, I will confess that now I have no idea which way I will vote on Tuesday. The questioning of my previous stance has nothing to do with any op-ed piece(s) – those are simply proproganda and I ignore that. I choose to take the time to do my own research and make up my own mind. This possible change of heart has come about for one reason. A few months ago I started a project in order to “fact-check” Dr. Atkinson’s claim of a significant down-sizing of the DCSD Central Office. I have entered all the data from the HR Monthly Reports since May (when the RIF’s and Resignations started) through this month’s HR report into a simple Excel spreadsheet. The visual picture that this spreadsheet gave me was stunning and sobering. I’m not sure where Dr. Atkinson’s “signifcant downsizing” is coming from, unless she considers Bus Monitors and Plant Services Central Office personnel. These 2 areas were decimated with RFI’s. It solidifies the view that this school district and its Board of Education are just simply not dedicated to making sure the students of DCSD are receiving a quality education.
While I am uncomfortable with any committee that Nathan Deal would appoint to approve Charter schools, how much more harmful could these individuals be than the current DCSD administration and BOE?
Private Citizen
November 3rd, 2012
2:50 pm
man from the mountain any trained law enforcement officer can determine impairment.
Truth in Moderation Public school is a forced monopoly, and as such, attracts massive fraudsters. These same fraudsters gain political control through political donations and tax exempt foundations.
That’s not moderation, that’s pure truth!
Truth in Moderation
November 3rd, 2012
11:56 pm
American public school history and the Prussian system:
“Government schools got their start in the 1840s, when Horace Mann returned from Prussia bearing news of an amazing school system. The Prussian system was also rooted in Hegelian thought. Hegel had believed we lived in a universe of Absolute Reason that would be expressed politically as the Absolute State—the exact opposite of the limited government the Founding Fathers had established. In the Prussian system children were educated not for intellectual accomplishment, but for obedience to the state…..Massachusetts, Mann’s home state, bought into the idea, and became the first state (in 1852) to enact a compulsory attendance law. Government schools did not catch on right away. A number of theologians (R.L. Dabney is an example) warned of their dangers. But very slowly, the American population began to accept them. Compulsory education laws were passed in one state after another. Numerous state constitutions (including my own state of South Carolina) adopted planks committing state governments to financing government school systems. The consolidation and centralization of education had begun.
The super-elite watched all this with great interest. They saw, in government schools, a path to a controlled population—a population of “sheeple.” The earliest incarnation of what would become the Rockefeller Foundation, before the turn of the century, began with the meeting between John D. Rockefeller Sr. and one Frederick Taylor Gates. Rockefeller Sr. had begun giving money to a variety of causes, many of them very worthwhile. He had bankrolled the University of Chicago, for example. Gates had ideas of his own, about how to use Rockefeller money. He would lead Rockefeller’s eldest son, John D. Rockefeller Jr., into an interest in education that would lead to the founding of the General Education Board in 1902. In his Occasional Letter No. 1, a publication of the General Education Board, Gates penned the following chilling two paragraphs:
“In our dreams, we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions fade from their minds, and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning, or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, editors, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have an ample supply.
The task we set before ourselves is very simple, as well as a very beautiful one, to train these people as we find them, to a perfectly ideal life, just where they are. So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops, on the farm.”
By Steven Yates
http://sovereignty.net/p/gov/stevenyates-5.html
Private Citizen
November 4th, 2012
1:04 am
Bill Mackinnon Good insight on the effect of incarceration laws displacing families. It is distressing to think about.
Truth in Moderation There’s a term for it, importing education concepts. I forget the term. It is a standard term used in higher studies of international comparative education. Oh, now I recall. The term is “policy borrowing.” It is a whole group of scholarship, case studies of policy borrowing and how it works out. I can tell you this, in the places where the Prussian schooling comes from, they study Hegel. If you want to learn philosophy in the United States, you better be autodidactic (self taught) because it is not being taught in the schools. The major medias even ridicule philosopy as one of the loser-degrees statistically yielding lower income than high school graduates or somesuch. Is it not a little odd that we have no philosophy classes in public high schools? Seems we’re preoccupied with getting students to read right up to 12th grade. There might be a philosophy class somewhere in Georgia government schools. I haven’t seen one. Seems pretty basic to teach the basics of logic and such as formal thought / history. One problem in teaching philosophy is that it gives voice to identity and individuals. That’s a big no-no and does not follow the script.
Know anything about Pierce? He’s American and at least one person gave him a rave review. Apparently the academy didn’t like him and he had a hard life. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce/
Did I ever tell you about a friend of mine married a personable young woman getting a .phd from a major U.S. university is sociology. She ended up teaching identity politics courses to undergraduates and doctrine of “white privilege” is on her syllabus. She had hobby of a little book collection of old books (victorian?) on sexual paraphilias and thought this was cool and stuff. I immediately said, “Well, of course you’ve read Havelock Ellis?” and she had never heard of him. He wrote the first encylopedic inventory of human sexual behavior, three volumes. It was pioneering / groundbreaking work. He was put in court for it, the whole bit. He motivation was as a humanist. He cared about people and was an excellent researcher. Anyway, my point is that in the United States, a lot of “educated” people seem to have little education. Aside from the person’s hobby, how could a .phd in sociology not have heard of Havelock Ellis?
Ole Guy
November 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
All these…”findings”…sound good. No, they seem…great…wow, “10-10-10″…does that make for some snappy print. Let us not forget, however, that these are simply the subjective ramblings, cloaked in some upbeat lingo (10-10-10…man, am I impressed or what!), which the as-yet UNPROVEN pre-k proponents espouse.
Again…repeating my oft-mentioned challenge: show me, the public who actually gives a damn about education, some IRREFUTABLE, SUBJECTIVE results of a cross-section of kids, throughout the state, from different socio-economic backgrounds, tracked from pre-k, through high school and into the world of collegiate challenge. When this “finding” shows a “10-10-10″ result, compared to the similar tracking of kids without “benefit” of pre-k…THEN, and only THEN will pre-k, or any other resource-draining initiative receive my endorsement.
Until then, I suggest (here we go again) a return to the tried and proven educational methodologies of yesteryear: FROM GRADE 1 TO THAT HIGH SCHOOL (FAUX) GRADUATION, INSIST ON STANDARDS, BOTH ACADEMIC AND BEHAVIOR. wHEN THESE STANDARDS ARE NOT MET, ROLL A FEW HEADS…NOT THE TEACHERS’, THE KIDS WHO FIND IT FAR EASIER TO SLIP N’ SLIDE.
period
des
November 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
I’m a 13 yr. old and i think we should vote yes because people in America are looking really stupid compared to the Japanese .
DeKalb Inside Out
November 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
Des
Fearing the Japanese went out with the 80s along with perms and acid wash jeans. Today we Americans fear the Chinese and the Indians (dots not feathers).