Most pro charter amendment money coming from outside Georgia. Most against from state educators. Does either worry you?
The AJC has been following the money in the high-powered, high-profile campaign for the charter school amendment, which would give the state the power to overrule local school boards and approve and fund charter schools. Presumably, that would lead to more charter schools in Georgia. Voters will decide the question on Nov. 6.
The AJC reports:
Groups backing the charter schools constitutional amendment have again pulled in far more money than amendment opponents, the most recent campaign filing statements show. Families for Better Public Schools, which supports the amendment, raised $1.28 million during the filing period that ends 15 days before the election. Families’ haul was 70 times more than the $18,164 the main opposition group, Vote Smart! No to State-Controlled Schools, raised during the same period.
A second amendment supporter, Georgia Public School Families for Amendment One, raised $55,000. Despite the group’s name, all of its money came from a single donation made by PublicSchoolOptions.org of Arlington, Va.
Indeed, most of the money that has gone to amendment supporters came from outside Georgia. Families for Better Public Schools’ filing, for example, shows that 71 percent of the money raised during this filing period came from outside sources.
As she did earlier in the campaign, Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton of Arkansas contributed another $350,000. J.C. Huizenga of Grand Rapids, Mich., gave $250,000. Students First of Sacramento, Calif., also gave $250,000.
“Wow, ” said Jane Langley, campaign manager for the Vote Smart opposition group. “This gives new meaning to ‘families.’ Those out-of-state corporations, more than two out of every three contributions, must badly want to change permanently our constitution.”
Many traditional public school officials — superintendents, board members and teachers — have opposed the amendment, arguing that it would lead to the creation of more charter schools that would sap money from traditional public schools. Supporters argue that passing the amendment would protect from legal challenge the state’s ability to authorize charter schools, which are public schools that are granted flexibility as they pursue specific education goals spelled out in their charter.
Traditional education officials and those tied to school systems dotted the Vote Smart contribution list. Jeanne “Sis” Henry, executive director of the Georgia School Boards Association, gave $3,000. Victoria Sweeney, an attorney who represents the Gwinnett County Public School District, donated $1,000.
Families for Better Public Schools collected $250,000 from Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus and $100,000 from Richard Gaby, chief executive officer of Peter Island Resort and Spa. Real estate developer Tom Cousins gave $20,000.
My AJC colleagues Jay Bookman and Kyle Wingfield each followed the money pouring into the charter school amendment and ended up in a different place.
Bookman wrote:
Reading the list of out-of-state contributors to the campaign to pass Amendment 1, the state charter-schools amendment, you get the sense that an old-fashioned gold rush would begin in Georgia the moment the amendment is approved.
J.C. Huizenga, founder of Michigan-based National Heritage Academies, a for-profit charter school operator, has contributed $25,000; his company contributed a matching $25,000. Charter Schools USA, based in Florida, contributed $50,000 as well. D.A. Davidson, a financial services firm based in Great Falls, Mont., that touts itself as “a recognized leader in charter school financing, ” has so far given $5,000. And K12 Inc., a for-profit provider of online classes and “full-time online public schools, ” has kicked in $100,000.
Those account only for contributions made through Sept. 21; the final campaign-disclosure reports may include additional big-dollar donations from companies eager to enter Georgia’s public-school marketplace. Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong about for-profit companies operating in the education sector. However, despite the fervor of those who preach that competition solves all problems, there’s nothing inherently good about it, either. No countries that outperform the United States in education, for example, do so through the for-profit model.
In addition, the overall shoddy performance of for-profit colleges and universities here in the U.S. provides stark evidence that when the profit motive conflicts with academic standards, profit takes precedence…There’s every reason to worry that similar dynamics will play out in k-12 education. Take K12 Inc., the company that has so far contributed $100,000 to opening up the Georgia market. In Florida, where the company operates in 43 school districts, a typical K12 high school teacher may have as many as 275 online students per class, which enhances profitability if not education. Last month, Florida officials launched an investigation into charges that K12 also uses teachers uncertified for the classes they teach and that company officials asked employees to cover up that fact.
Looking at the same list of donors, Wingfield had a far different response:
After its latest report, filed Tuesday, the anti-amendment group Vote SMART! had a donor base comprising 146 people and eight companies that had given a combined $104,263 (along with almost $19,000 in gifts not itemized). Who are they?
Thirty-four of them are current or former superintendents. That group gave more than $16,000. Another 30 are other types of school-system administrators: area superintendents, assistant superintendents, directors of some kind or another. These folks contributed an additional $14,000.
Eleven members of various school boards around Georgia gave almost $4,000. Ten principals shelled out $2,576. In all, almost 60 percent of the Vote SMART! donors and more than a third of its donations came from people who run our traditional public schools. That’s one bit of turf. Then there are the professional organizations: the Professional Association of Georgia Educators, Georgia School Boards Association and Georgia School Superintendents Association. Fifteen employees of these groups donated more than $15,000.
Now let’s look at companies that do business with school systems… In fact, 35 people or firms who do business with traditional public schools, from attorneys and consultants to architects and contractors, have given more than $32,000 to the anti-amendment campaign. Now, am I missing any job description in the education field? Hmmm, let’s see …
From what we can see, though, almost 90 percent of the donors and $4 of every $5 donated come from the people running our schools and the firms they do business with. It’s a campaign of the educational establishment, by the educational establishment, for the educational establishment.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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226 comments Add your comment
Eddie Hall
October 28th, 2012
9:47 am
Let’s see, what concerns me more, hundreds of thousands of dollars pouring in from OUT OF STATE millionaires and corporations that see the potential to get their hands on the millions in free money, OR the fact that a modern day “David” is taking them on with hundreds donated from people that have devoted a lifetime to education and truly CARE about our children? I will go with the “Davids”!
There is an article just today questioning the appointments of Gov. Deal. You want him to appoint the people to run this duel system? And who knows who the next one will be? KEEP LOCAL CONTROL! Keep your local property taxes down! VOTE NO!
Lenny
October 28th, 2012
9:58 am
I am more concerned about the out of state influence. This is a very bad amendment. Vote no.
Disgusted in Dekalb
October 28th, 2012
10:00 am
Thank you Eddie.
Why are so many out of state donors? Why are they so interested in our state and our constitution? I think thats the real rub here. I question why they’re spending so much money to change OUR state constitution.
It is truly pathetic and sickening that these for profit organizations are interested in coming to Georgia only if they have it their way. There is no concern for the children of Georgia here, its all about the all mighty dollar.
If Emperor Deal and his crooked cronies want to help education, there are ways to do it without this amendment. But then they wouldn’t get their kickbacks.
Uh
October 28th, 2012
10:09 am
They are interested in seeing the growth of charter school options while in-state educators have the most to lose if charters grow. I think it’s odd that many people in Georgia seem to be missing the point that with this issue in particular, “local control” virtually ensures a local monopoly. How many times have we seen parents and students happy with their charter school having to beg a local school system to renew them? Without the state level committee, those parents and student have no recourse when the local system dec zssqqqqqqqrt
Old timer
October 28th, 2012
10:16 am
I have voted no…primarily …I do not believe the constitution should be amended to provide for something that legislation could handle. I do support charter schools, but not for profit schools of any kind. I do not want another group of governor appointees to manage things that could be handle by elected officials.
Jim Chaput
October 28th, 2012
10:26 am
The Charter Schools amendment is badly flawed, but I voted for it because our public schools desperately need competition in any form we can provide. It is time to break the rigid assignment of children to the nearest public school, regardless of whether that school is excellent or sub-standard or even unsafe.
Public education is virtually the only monopoly market left in the US. When faced with a sub-standard public school, very few parents have the means to send their children to a private school and it is almost impossible to effect changes to a school from outside. With the current real estate market most parents don’t even have the ability to sell their home and move their children into a better district.
We need a voucher system where each parent can take their full share of the operating budget for the local public school district and use it to send their child to any public, private or parochial school that meets State-wide standards and will accept them. The Charter Schools amendment is a small step in that direction.
Eddie Hall
October 28th, 2012
10:29 am
So just to be clear, if you hold an election in your county and elect a school board, and that elected school board decides it is not in the interest to open a charter, ( notice I did not say build, because a lot of these schools are just computer terminals) AND upon appeal the state school board headed by an elected official either uphold or reverse that decision (and they have done both) it is a bad thing compared to an appointed committee in Atlanta making that decision? That committee will have little reagard for the fact that the “pie” is only so big for education funding, and yes, no local funds may be expended for THAT school, none than less another “slice” is gone, so that ELECTED local board will have no choice but to raise LOCAL property taxes to compensate. That is so the children that can’t go to the charter school will recieve the education they are promised. I say again, if you are unhappy with your local situation, CHANGE it by electing a new BOE, don’t give up the right to vote and decide locally. This is something MUCH easier ot give away than get back! VOTE NO!
fjeremey
October 28th, 2012
10:31 am
A question: If charter schools are such a very excellent plan, why then don’t we allow “traditional” schools the flexibility of charter schools? Why do we need an expensive and cumbersome process, rife with concerns beyond education? Why not let the professionals in the classroom determine the direction of the education? That is, after all, the difference between a charter school and a traditional school. Perhaps instead of continually painting over the problem we need to dig into the structure of education and consider where we want to go, how best to get there, and how to construct a system that will allow that to happen. It’s basic instructional design and it is what good teachers do everyday.
Eddie Hall
October 28th, 2012
10:36 am
@ Uh,
local contol, local monopoly = majority rule? That is a bad thing?
Also consider those “educators” that are fighting for the most part are either retired or close to it. They know OVERALL we are making strides here in Georgia, and with a little legislative reform,(and sometimes a little less) we can get there, this is not the way!
indigo
October 28th, 2012
10:47 am
Many of these groups supporting this ammendment have the word “families” in their name. This means they are far right Christian groups who support the teaching of creationism and the unerring truth of The New Testament in schools. They also want evolution and astro-pyhsics to be branded “lies from the gates of hell”.
When it comes to levels of endeavor that truly matter, Georgia is almost always either in last place or close to last. Passage of this ammendment will go a long way to keeping us in a solid last place position.
d
October 28th, 2012
10:58 am
Competition wasn’t what made Finnish schools the best in the world.
MANGLER
October 28th, 2012
11:15 am
If companies want to open and run a K-12 charter school using their own money on a for-profit model, then let them. Why are they only interested when they get to use tax dollars to do it? Parents voting yes need to ask themselves why their childrens educations are only important when other people’s money is being used to provide it.
Mom of 3
October 28th, 2012
11:19 am
The way I read this is that most of the people fighting the amendment make their livings within the current establishment. They are scared. They are scared for for their jobs. They are scared of change. If you are unhappy with your current public school system, why in the world would you continue to support these folks. Change is good! People adjust! There may be bumps along the way- but the PEOPLE are rising up and saying enough is enough. We are not happy with the current public schools. Don’t hunker down and feel scared of what some say may happen. Most of the people behind the amendment want it for the students. They want change. I can not say that I see that same attitude with the administrators or the school board in my county. The only other option I see is if the legislature would get a back bone and allow cities to form their own school systems. The current system is antiquated and I believe that the people who fight that- are truly not in it for the students.
Centrist
October 28th, 2012
11:31 am
Government taking tax dollars from citizens and hiring employees to make rules on how those dollars are spent without taxpayer input is a gross conflict of interest. It is telling that people running our schools (Superintendents, Principals, administrators, teacher groups) and the firms they do business with are the primary opponents of Charter schools. The Charter school amendment is a chance for taxpaying voters to finally weigh in.
d
October 28th, 2012
11:39 am
The only problems have with the idea of city schools is the fact that we are using an antiquated funding model and that won’t change if we allow the formation of new districts. I don’t recall these discussions when times were good and schools actually had the funding they needed to fulfill their mission, but in the last decade, in the name of austerity, billions were cut from public education, and with the local funding tied to property values, we are further in the hole. Before we create crony-filled bureaucracies, let’s examine our tax structure to see where we can insulate our core priorities (and constitutional priorities at that) from fluctuations in the economy unlike what we have done in Georgia. Let us focus on allowing teachers to show that they are the professionals and get the corporate interests out of this equation. Where we need corporate support is in telling us what they need in their workforce – and the college-for-all idea where we can’t hurt Johnny’s and Suzi’s feelings and the idea that children can talk back to their teachers without consequences reality that is the current generation has to go the way of the dodo.
d
October 28th, 2012
11:44 am
Centrist – as a taxpayer, I do have a say in the running of our local districts, and I can (and have done so) vote against those who are not doing what they need to or should be doing with my tax dollars. A yes vote to Amendment One is a giving an appointed, unaccountable bureaucracy control of tax dollars. Who do I complain to when they either approve a school I oppose or deny one I support? Who can I vote out? Talk about taxation without representation.
BehindEnemyLines
October 28th, 2012
11:48 am
Not particularly bothered by it. There really isn’t anything that could produce worse results with more money thrown down the drain than what we’ve been doing. Anything that provides more alternatives is a good thing at this point.
Gail
October 28th, 2012
11:56 am
I guess this is like seeing the glass half full or half empty. Same data seen entirely differently.
The Director of the Board of PublicSchoolOptions.org is from GA. They and other proponents of the amendment are misleading people by saying that there is currently no appeals process. However, as I understand it, if a local school denies a charter application, they can appeal to the State BOE
Why do we need an appointed commission to do this? The commission supposedly is to be unpaid except for travel expenses. However, this as with anything, can be changed by the state legislature. (ala the old HOPE scholarship) The previous Executive Director of the GA Charter Schools Commission made over $100K in the FY 2011. Despite the denials, it seems to me there is money to be made.
Spartacus
October 28th, 2012
12:00 pm
@BehindEnemy….
Exactly, seems like the people who vote no appear to be perfectly OK with throwing good money after bad and getting the same results….
d
October 28th, 2012
12:07 pm
Spartacus, I will not say we don’t need change, but Amendment 1 won’t fix what is wrong. We need a back to the drawing board approach like what Finland did to become number one in the world….. And that didn’t include charters unaccountable to taxpayers or manipulative ballot language.
Centrist
October 28th, 2012
12:07 pm
The AJC and most of the posters on these blogs are against the amendment. Despite an inaccurate biased AJC poll falsely claiming the vote will be close, the amendment is going to pass easily – even the Cox WSB poll has had to admit it now that the election is near.
Instead of all the acrimony, working on fixes in areas of concern would serve us all better than partisan bickering.
Atlanta Mom
October 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Over a million dollars coming in from out of state or $100,000 coming from people within the state. Why are all these folks from out of state so concerned about what we are doing in Georgia? You think they are concerned about the children of Georgia? Methinks not.
Lady GaGa
October 28th, 2012
12:42 pm
I am voting yes. My daughter attends a sub-par school that we are zoned for. Right now we are unable to move to the more desirable schools in our district due to the Great Recession. Having a choice to attend a local charter school that is doing VERY well is VERY appealing to me. I think parents should have more choices in situations like mine. I don’t have time to wait until her current school gets better (if they ever). So my vote will be yes. Thank you and good night.
DeKalb Parent
October 28th, 2012
12:50 pm
The DeKalb school administration is so corrupt and wasteful, I cannot imagine that anyone could do a worse job running it. Besides that, it is so big that the argument of “local control” hardly applies. Charter schools truly offer local control. It is hardly a surprise that the “Family and Friends Jobs Program Establishment” is against the Amendment. The Amendment is not a cure-all, but a needed first step towards improving education. This gravy train in DeKalb needs to be stopped. Vote YES if you want change.
Reality_Check
October 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
Don’t any of the proponents of the amendment see a problem with an appointed state board accountable only to Gov. Deal? If you think it can’t get any worse, just wait. Also, I saw an ad for the amendment this weekend which showed an African-American child talking about the amendment. If you think this is the goal of these right-wingers, you are really naive. I believe the long-term goal of these groups is take public education in Georgia back to 1970 {separate but equal (?)}.
A Teacher, 2
October 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
Why can’t I be against the amendment on the merits of the amendment without being accused of being “against” change???? I am for change. I am not for an amendment that is worded in an attempt to influence the vote. I am not for creating any more state agencies. I clearly see that charter schools are not a magic bullet.
I am for charter schools, IF they are, in fact, allowed to effect change. Sorry, but I do not believe that the state will allow the change we all desire. If they would allow change, why not allow high-performing schools who have their act together function the same as these charter schools everyone says they desire???
MANGLER has an excellent point, also!
FairLady
October 28th, 2012
1:00 pm
Many other states and the nation are looking at GA as we pass Amendment One!!! I am so excited about change in the status quo. Many of us parents cannot wait until more money is thrown at school districts to try to fix our problems. I am frustrated at our children being tied to a low performing school based upon their zip code. Many parents would love the option of a charter school. There are not enough and there are waiting lists. School Districts have been unwilling to approve more Charter Schools in GA. I voted YES as a concerned parent for more school options in GA. I am excited I could have a part in this change in the educational landscape in GA. I personally am not concerned where the money comes from as long as we are finally moving in the right direction. Charter Schools are just one more tool in the educational tool chest to help rebuild our educational system in GA. Please vote YES for the children, and for positive options in Ga.
Claudia Stucke
October 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
For many voters, I think, the “yes” vote is essentially a vote of no confidence in their local school boards. Some people also believe that each charter school’s teachers and administrators will spend allotted funds more responsibly than district board members would, based on evidence of misappropriation and mismanagement (such as criminal charges filed against previous administrators). These voters–parent and non-parent taxpayers alike–want change and what they perceive to be more local control, even though that means taking some decision-making power away from local school boards and giving it to the state. If the taxpayers are disgusted enough with their local schools, school boards, etc., they may not care about the sources of the campaign money in support of the amendment.
@d–What works in Finland won’t necessarily work here. As appealing as it is to read about its success in education, the United States is not Finland. According to a recent Smithsonian article, “It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing. In addition, the state subsidizes parents, paying them around 150 euros per month for every child until he or she turns 17. Ninety-seven percent of 6-year-olds attend public preschool, where children begin some academics. Schools provide food, medical care, counseling and taxi service if needed. Student health care is free.” Furthermore, there are no standardized tests (!), but there is a strong teachers’ union. I just don’t see our country embracing this type of structure, especially with our national debt; but even without it, I’m not sure that we value education as much as we say we do.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz2Ac78vHF0
Mom of 3
October 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
d- it is not correct that in good times people were not asking for smaller districts. When you have districts that are so large and so diverse- no ones needs are truly met. I don’t see how this is any different from when the US wanted to be free from England’s control. We are not happy- let us be free! Right now we truly have taxation without representation in the large districts. Charters are one possible way out.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
lets see….
people on this blog were outraged when unions bussed in teachers from out of state to Wisconsin because union outsiders where trying to sway internal Wisconsin issues.
now most of these same people endorse out of state money coming in to sway Georgian politics.
hypricites, table for them all.
DeKalb Parent
October 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
My YES vote is absolutely a vote of no confidence in my school board. Tha state board is not going to be responsible for running charter schools, only authorizing them. As the saying goes, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it….” Dekalb schools are broken, and after November 6th, there will be panicked Administrators that will have to face that fact.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
1:10 pm
@ A teacher, 2
I’ve said more times than I can count, I have no issue per se with charters, but have some serious concerns about the mechanics of funding and accountability.
I have even listed several instances where I think charters would be a great thing.
and no one who teaches needs to be lectured on the myriad of problems in our profession
but that’s using logic, not making political points
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
I’m voting no for the following reasons:
-I remain unconvinced this is anything other than an attempt by the state to deflect how they have failed their constitutional requirements to support PUBLIC education in Georgia.
-as a long time part of the USG, I know a trap when I see one.
-none of the parties involved: parents, legislators, red meat Fran have shown any indication at all they will do anything different, and the current problems in traditional education will just migrate to this current trendy quick fix.
-all this is is a trendy quick fix. its new math, nothing more.
-remember prop 82 back in the 80s? a trendy idea caught on in California to willy nilly cut taxes without considering the effects. it ended up gutting public facilities so badly the state was paralyzed, and opened the door to the socialist government it has now. good intentions are the road to hell, and this is an express lane.
-I have no desire to spend public monies to make life easier for the so called fair lady and those like her. while I do understand there are parents who are stuck by circumstance, most parents who whine for charters are too lazy to exercise the multiple choices already available to them
sorry fairlady/pridejoy/goodmother/name of the week, you gotta pluck your own chicken
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
@ d
Finland has two advantages we don’t. one functional, one societal
functional: Scandinavian countries are very, very, very, racially and culturally homogenous.
social: they believe in education. Americans do not.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
@ mangler
you’re just talking sense. not permitted in this discussion.
This is Mrs. Norman Maine
October 28th, 2012
1:51 pm
People who do not live in our state are spending thousands of dollars to influence OUR state constitution? That’s unacceptable. I find that far more disturbing than the educators “protecting their turf”. This is further validation that I did the right thing when I voted NO.
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
1:59 pm
@FairLady Remember where we are posting, we are preaching to the choir.
Pride and Joy
October 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
Just a couple days now…I can hardly wait to vote YES YES YES!
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
2:42 pm
Um…..Eddie, I am pretty sure the Ms. Walton has enough money…which is why she is able to give to causes important to her (like improving public education in our nation). Also, do you REALLY believe that 67.4% graduation rate is “making strides.” Really?
@ Disgusted in DeKalb… the 3 for-profit management companies donating to the campaign already work in Georgia and have Georgia based staff. They are simply supporting the schools with whom they are affiliated (similar to the architects and attorneys working with the school districts who have donated). What other for-profit organizations are beating down the doors, as you say?
@ Fjeremy….the truth is that school districts have ALWAYS had the ability to provide this flexibility. Since 2003, they could convert schools to charters. They’ve been asking the State Board for waivers for years. And now they have charter systems. The fact is that what REALLY sets start up charters aside is not only the flexibility, but the autonomy to make decisions about flexibility. The districts will never give away their central control to the school level. To do so would make many of the central office jobs obsolete.
@ Indigo and your other 99 screen names…. give it a rest. Charters teach the state’s curriculum just like any other traditional public school does. If you dislike the curriculum, lobby the legislature. Otherwise, take your paranoia elsewhere. It’s an ignorant and grossly uninformed argument against charters AND traditional schools.
@ Mom of 3, I agree completely.
@ d… so you are saying that with your 1 vote…for 1 board member…every 4 years…you can really, truly have any impact on the functioning of a whole dysfunctional district board in a timely enough way to impact your own child? Seriously, you believe that? You should ask Clayton County parents if they agree.
@ Atlanta Mom…. the majority of out of state money comes from people who have already made their fortunes and are trying to give it away. These people, over and over, give to public education reform initiatives all over this country. Do you want Gwinnett and APS to give back their large grants to Broad and Gates? Reason through this. Crappy education in our states leads to a crappy national economy. It’s a bigger issue than just Georgia.
@ Reality Check…. charters serve the SAME demographic as traditional schools – about 50% minority and economically disadvantaged. Check the facts for yourself. And before you get to talking about segregation, you might want to look at the census data in some rural south Georgia schools compared to their nearly 100% minority systems that are FAILING these children. Don’t get me started on this.
@ Bootney… the amendment just affirms the state’s authority to approve charters on appeal. If you dislike the funding or the Commission, that is a separate matter that you should take up with your legislator. They are not one in the same.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
@ fJeremy – my apologies, it’s been since 1993.
d
October 28th, 2012
2:52 pm
@bootney…. I work in southern DeKalb…. Homogeneity isn’t an issue. As far as caring – we need to focus on our goals here. Why does Georgia have one of the highest percentages of students taking SAT? I think it is because we’ve gotten in our minds that college is the ony way to achieve the American dream, and in doing so, we’re likely to kill it for many of our students.
Eddie Hall
October 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
@ charters, you make the numbers what you want. In my district the percentage is 87%
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
3:03 pm
What district is that?
And I don’t “make” the numbers anything. Go look them up yourself. And BTW, we have districts that are nearly 100% caucasian. Outliers for either districts or charters are not useful to the conversation. South Georgia is not an outlier – it’s a whole region.
Former Ivy Dad, current Chamblee Magnet Dad
October 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
Two yes votes over here.
Beverly Fraud
October 28th, 2012
3:15 pm
Voting yes is the equivalent of voting for privateers who make Somali pirates look as benevolent as a search and rescue team.
Voting no is like voting to maintain a status quo bureaucracy that make the North Korean government look progressive in comparison.
Inviting Somali pirates into North Korea in order to destabilize to government monopoly? Doesn’t the fact that this actually MIGHT lead to some improvements let you know just how bad the educational monolith has become?
Beverly Fraud
October 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
Excuse the typos…
Beverly Fraud
October 28th, 2012
3:26 pm
“Do you want Gwinnett and APS to give back their large grants to Broad and Gates?”
In a word YES. Any organization (like Broad) that begats Beverly Hall in APS and Edmund Heatley in ClayCo (two of the charter members of The Four Horsemen of the Incompetence) is an organization that any school system, despite the millions the Broads offer, would be better off TOTALLY distancing themselves from.
If they want to supply school SUPPLIES fine; expertise? Looking at Hall and Heatley (tip of the iceberg) not so much.
catlady
October 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
Thank you, Bootney!
Folks, take any other issue, and tell the Rs that the money supporting it is coming from companies and “families” with a vested interest in the passage, people from outside of Georgia, and even outside the USA, and they would run screaming away from it. “OMG, Yankees? Them dammed Chinese? Them rich SObs? No way are THEY going to tell US how to teach OUR kids! No way are THEY gonna get their hands on OUR tax money! Tell them to go HOME!” Yet, on this issue, there is so little outcry.
I’ve said this before : Hey, people we don’t have to be just SHEEP! Perhaps if we quit acting like sheep, our “leaders” will quit picking our pockets for their own enrichment.
catlady
October 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
I doubt too many teachers are ponying up their money. Who can afford it? As of this school year, I will have lost 34 days of pay–about $15,000, plus its effect on my retirement. There IS no money to give from regular worker bees.
And as for those of you who say teachers are afraid of competition: Good teachers will be in demand by these charter schools, just as they are by “regular” schools.
Lady GaGa
October 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
Another thought I have about charter schools….I would think educators would be in favor of more charter schools so that class sizes can start to come down. It makes sense that if fewer students are in our traditional schools, class sizes can come down. Educators have said repeatedly that part of the problem is overcrowded classrooms. With charter schools, you get fewer kids in traditional schools and possibly, more motivated students with involved parents in charter schools. Those in traditional schools would have more freedom to do all of those things they want to help the struggling kids with no parental involvement. Anyone ever thought about that?
Beverly Fraud
October 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
“.I would think educators would be in favor of more charter schools so that class sizes can start to come down”
Actually @GaGa they would NOT come down. They would just cut teachers. Why. To keep central office numbers INTACT. But that is EXACTLY the type of mindset that is leading the educational monolith down the road that even Somali pirates look like a welcome addition to the party.
Get Educated
October 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
Like the for profit charter company in FL being investigated because their teachers were told to falsify their records? Turns out they had 275 students per teacher. Did I mention this same company is helping fund vote yes? Shady, shady business except for a chosen few.
And those TV and radio ads with the girl in the Ivy Prep uniform? Ivy Prep did worse on every metric compared to the public schools in Gwinnett. But education isn’t what this is about anyway. Scary, permanently changing our Constituion for these folks.
indigo
October 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
ChartersStarters Too – 2:42
There is so much ignorance in that rant I hardly know where to start.
1. I only have one screen name.
2. The whole idea of Charters is schools that DON’T teach all of the state’s curriculum.
3. How is it you’re so naive as to think that lobbying the legislature would do any good? Don’t you know they are bought and paid for by Big Business?
4. What you call “paranoia” is actually fact.
5. The only “ignorant and grossly uninformed argument” here is yours.
Note
October 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Locally approved charters are in a completely different class than what potentially is coming if this bill is approved.
According to Ed Setzler at a recent public forum:
Any curriculum can be taught, no need to follow common core. Any teacher will do, no need to be certified. Five years to “prove” the charter school is on the up and up with no oversight. Anyone worried about five years without oversight? And this is going to lead to more competition for public schools?
In the meantime with the dollar drain, there goes magnet programs, gifted programs, p.e., music and art programs, and busing. No need to make suppositions, just look at what has happened in Florida since they approved these charter schools run by for profit by out of state companies.
This educator is concerned about what will happen to students who have five years of unsupervised education, where teachers are not evaluated or certified, standards not followed, and any curricula is allowed.
And in the public forum, Mr. Setzler was unable to answer why the huge push of funds to pass this bill is from out of state donations. Nor was he able to answer why the current method to appeal denial of a charter through the DOE is inadequate.
Former Ivy Dad, current Chamblee Magnet Dad
October 28th, 2012
4:58 pm
I’m up to five yes votes now!
Hey Teacher
October 28th, 2012
5:17 pm
I voted no already. The wording alone is frightening and not the venue for change. We are trying to solve the problems of the likes of APS and Dekalb on the backs of the rest of us who work and send our children to functional systems. This amendment is NOT good for the state (but I’m sure it is good for one of Deal’s cronies).
@Catlady — amen!
Charles Douglas Edwards
October 28th, 2012
5:32 pm
We urge voters not to be deceived by the new advertisements by charter schools advocates !!!
Charter schools will not be good for the majority of our students in the long run. We need to focus our attention, resources and funds on the public education of the masses of our students.
The new pro charter ads featuring black students is misleading and deceitful because the majority of future charter schools will be designed to re-segregate our schools.
We hope and pray that Georgia voters will defeat this amendment.
Hillbilly D
October 28th, 2012
5:36 pm
Does either worry you?
Why worry about something I can’t do anything about? I can vote on the amendment and that’s about it. I can’t control the money game.
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
5:41 pm
Our DeKalb schools have been segregated for years. Read this: http://savannahnow.com/column/2012-10-26/nielsen-charter-school-amendment-fights-status-quo#.UI2mSMXqmkM for more insught.
Vote YES!
living in an outdated ed system
October 28th, 2012
5:46 pm
Doesn’t worry me the least. Many folks inside Georgia just don’t understand why we need this amendment to pass, so I am not surprised that the rest of the nation is helping us to see the light.
COA Parent
October 28th, 2012
6:01 pm
Both concern me. While I don’t support the amendment, I do support charter schools. Every county needs more options so that children can learn in an environment that is best for them. However, I believe that this should happen on a local level and that more parents need to be involved in what is going on in their local school district and on the school boards. Everyone sits around and complains but few get involved. Why is it so easy to sit and wait for someone else to fix the problem? I think schools and the government for that matter, would function better and be more transparent, if everyone was involved and hold elected officials accountable for what they are or are not doing. Giving parents a choice is a great thing. However, giving the state the power to say what that choice should be is a bad idea! The amendment was written to entice people to vote yes for choice but to have someone who does not know the neighborhood come in and tell me what if any choice I should have does not work for me. Give me the choice on a local level to do what I think is right for my community!
I hope everyone votes NO to this amendment!
Sandy Springs Parent
October 28th, 2012
6:06 pm
What should have been the amendment to give true local conrol would be to get rid of the arbitrary set number of school districts in Georgia. While this may have been written to prevent the small rural counties from dropping having a school district. After the white students fled to private schools with segregations. It has been a horror show for the metro area will 50,000 to 100,000 student districts. The best performing districts in the country are small districts that have no more than 1-2 high schools and their feeder schools. Small districts that have local control by locally elected boards that serve for free with Superintents who make $150K a year. Superintents who are not on the 3 year tour the country and pad my resume make 250K -300K yr.. destroy a district while getting all my family and friends high paying jobs. For this high paying job opportunity these traveling Supt. are indebted to the Boards and find their family and friends jobs as well. With small school districts, their are simply no layers of administration to hid all of these useless folks.
I will vote NO!
Come back with this Amendment and Come back with an Amendment for real Vouchers at least $8,000 + COLA’s annually for every student. I also want the money you get for my kid being gifted and having ADHD. Then this Liberal will vote yes, because those vouchers are the only ones that will truely offer competiiton. Or just let me bring the bill from private school after I have given public school a go for I year. Sorry 36 students in 7th grade makes it impossible to learn, when at the Catholic School they have 32 kids in two classes. A bit easier to learn with 16 and discipline will occur. I just can’t afford it when Georgia doesn’t make a Father pay for Private School in a divorce.
concerned
October 28th, 2012
6:23 pm
To all of you who complain of having to send your children to sub par public schools just because of your zip code…do you really think there will be a NEW Charter School built close enough for your children to attend? And even if there is, which I doubt, what if the school isn’t better? Then what will you do? Remember, Charter Schools do not have to hire certified teachers. They do not have to teach the same standards as public school. They will not be administering the same tests. How will this be better? You all think you will have a say in the NEW Charter Schools. Think again. You will not have any more input than you do now. You can already create Charter Schools. If you want one badly enough do what it takes to create one. Voting yes to Amendment 1 will NOT make things better for the chidren of Georgia. It will, however, make many people outside of Geogia very rich. Not every school district is like Dekalb or Atlanta City. There are GREAT schools and GREAT school systems in Georgia. Voting yes on Nov. 6 will hurt these great schools and systems. Change is great and needed but this is NOT the change that will make a difference for the better.
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
6:35 pm
To the Educrats…..Many parents posting here have children in state authorized charter schools. Our kids are excelling and thriving. That’s why I voted YES.
Yes, to the Educrats desperately trying to hang on to your six figure salaries while graduating students that are qualified for minimum wage jobs….
Maybe you should stop posting on this forum and polish up your resumes…
Georgia and Education not compatible
October 28th, 2012
6:49 pm
To all of you who oppose the charter amendment…AMEN! If this amendment is passed then it will truly be “taxation without representation.” Thanks d.
Please don’t let the Powers that Be-fuddled hoodwink you into thinking that this amendment will make everything a little better…it won’t.
What if you have legitimate complaints about your new charter school? Who will you address? The people that work for the charter school won’t REALLY be accountable to you. Additionally, the only person that the charter committee will respond to is the “Gov-na.” Is that really okay with many you?
C’mon people THINK…
teacher&mom
October 28th, 2012
6:53 pm
I’m voting no.
I support charter schools and believe a locally approved charter school is the way to go. We have a system in place to approve charter schools.
I also follow what is happening in states that have opened the doors to charter schools. For example…just this week in Florida…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2012/10/26/charter-school-principal-gets-519453-payout-in-taxpayer-money/
teacher&mom
October 28th, 2012
6:56 pm
@DekalbParent: You are naive if you think charter school administrators do not earn 6 figure salaries.
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
7:06 pm
Enlighten me….ours don’t. We receive considerably less funding than DCSS approved charter schools. And as for that matter, I wouldn’t be so upset with DeKalb salaries for Admin if they were “actually producing results” and doing something besides trying to cover up their financial ineptitude and avoiding answering parents directly during round table meetings. I am not opposed to rewarding success. Local school boards and administrators are rewarded for failure. In private industry, they would have been fired years ago and we wouldn’t be where we are now.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
October 28th, 2012
7:08 pm
@Behind Enemy liines “There really isn’t anything that could produce worse results with more money thrown down the drain than what we’ve been doing.”
So sure of that, are you?
From Huffington Post:
“An Orange County charter school that gave its principal a $519,000 departure payout was an academic failure that struggled to provide its students with basic materials and qualified teachers, an evaluation by the school district shows.
In 2011-12, NorthStar High School’s directors paid Principal Kelly Young more than twice as much money as they spent on the school’s educational program.
Including her annual salary, bonuses and payout, Young took home at least $824,000 in taxpayer money that year, not including payments she continues to receive for winding down the school’s operations.
By comparison, the school spent $366,042 on instruction, including teacher salaries, last school year, according to an audit paid for by the school.
…..
NorthStar’s lavish payment to their principal was not an isolated instance. In 2010-11, when Young’s contract called for $305,000 in pay, the school spent $372,009 on instruction. Her pay made up a third of the school’s budget that year.
The school lacked computers, a library or cafeteria services at its facility in concrete portables on Curry Ford Road. According to the January report by Orange County Public Schools, the school’s reading teacher was not certified in reading and NorthStar didn’t have someone certified to teach English language-learners.
Nearly three quarters of NorthStar’s students failed the state reading test, and half failed in math. But students who attended say it was the first school where they felt supported.
….
“You can’t be having these golden parachutes in any industry, especially one funded with taxpayer money,” said Legg, who added that he wants to see more transparency in reporting charter school salaries.
…
The school, which operated for 11 years, was never an academic standout. It’s last grade from the state was a D, but it was losing ground last year. “It wasn’t a good educational environment for students,” said Christopher Bernier, who oversees charter schools in Orange County. “They weren’t producing. They weren’t learning.”
….
A February letter signed by Young accused the district of denying the school’s request to be evaluated on a less rigorous standard because they served a struggling population, and of “being set up to fail.”
Full story here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/26/charter-school-spent-more_n_2021140.html?utm_hp_ref=education
Just the facts
October 28th, 2012
7:14 pm
It is in the interest of local school boards to not support charter schools. If you are ok with your local substandard school…if you are ok with your local school’s cheating scandal…if you are ok with your local school on the verge of losing accreditation …
You get what you deserve.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
7:17 pm
@ Catlady – but your superintendent hasn’t given up his pay OR his retirement through all of this.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
7:19 pm
@ Teacher&Mom – The average charter school leader salary $68,000 per year. You may have an outlier or two, but the majority are far less than their traditional school counterparts. And these charter leaders are MORE than just principals – they are also CEOs of non-profits. None of them are getting rich.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
7:21 pm
@ Teacher&Mom – do you not see how hypocritical your post is? You start out by saying you like charter schools, but as typically happens, you add that…BUT… and then say, to look what’s happened to states that opened their doors to charters.
Typical logic of the opposition. Fail.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
7:29 pm
@ Indigo –
ChartersStarters Too – 2:42
There is so much ignorance in that rant I hardly know where to start.
LOOKS LIKE YOU DID JUST FINE.
1. I only have one screen name.
OH MY LORD, ARE THERE MORE FOLKS LIKE YOU ROAMING AROUND SPOUTING PARANOIA?
2. The whole idea of Charters is schools that DON’T teach all of the state’s curriculum.
NO, DEAR. THEY MUST TEACH AS A BASIS AT LEAST THE STATE CURRICULUM BECAUSE THEY ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE SAME CRITERION REFERENCED COMPETENCY TESTS; HOWEVER, THEY MAY AUGMENT WITH ADDITIONAL, MORE RIGOROUS CURRICULUM AND EMPLOY DIFFERENT INSTRUCTIONAL METHODOLOGIES.
3. How is it you’re so naive as to think that lobbying the legislature would do any good? Don’t you know they are bought and paid for by Big Business?
BUT I THOUGHT YOU OPPONENTS BELIEVED IN ‘LOCAL CONTROL.” THOSE IN THE LEGISLATURE REPRESENT YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND YOU ELECTED THEM. ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU TRUST THE THE ELECTION PROCESS FOR THE LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD BUT YOU DON’T TRUST THE SAME PROCESS FOR THE LEGISLATURE? BIZARRE.
4. What you call “paranoia” is actually fact.
WELL…NOT IN ANY OF THE 70 CHARTERS I AM ACQUAINTED WITH. WHICH ONE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND HOW DO YOU QUALIFY IT AS “FACT?”
5. The only “ignorant and grossly uninformed argument” here is yours.
LOL. IS THAT THE GROWN UP EQUIVALENT OF CALLING ME A MEANIE HEAD?
teacher&mom
October 28th, 2012
7:29 pm
@DekalbParent: Google “charter school administration costs”
Here’s a study that was released in May that found charter school administration costs were actually higher than traditional schools.
http://www.ncspe.org/publications_files/OP201.pdf
10:10 am
October 28th, 2012
7:31 pm
As a fervent union-booster, Maureen, you’re of course happy to feed the myth that anti-charter money is coming from “state educators” rather than the teachers’ union bosses.
Readers can Google “NEA” and “donations” and learn that union cash is funneled into a great many causes which the average Georgia teacher might not support. No matter. Those belonging to GAE/NEA will in any case be funding these liberal-left causes through their dues without even knowing it.
d
October 28th, 2012
7:36 pm
I think the basic question comes down to this: Do we need amendment one to have quality charters in Georgia? The answer is, no. We have charters already. Will Amendment one help Georgia education. As before, the answer is no.
teacher&mom
October 28th, 2012
7:38 pm
@charterstarter, too:
I’ve worked at a charter school….a locally approved charter school.
I just happen to believe the current system for approving a charter is the right way.
There is nothing hypocritical about disagreeing with the creation of a state appointed board to approve charters.
emz
October 28th, 2012
7:39 pm
I support charter schools but money coming from out-of-state is disturbing. Those corporations and/or millionaires do not care about educating the children of Georgia, especially the low-income ones. Local control of schools is not always great but corporations being involved for money is not great at all.
jd
October 28th, 2012
7:45 pm
Hmmm— in state money coming from people whose children attend public schools, according to Kyle, is dirty money. But, money from individuals from out-of-state whose children attend private schools is money well spent for altruistic reasons? Yeah right…
d
October 28th, 2012
7:49 pm
Teacher Union Bosses….. That’s funny. I’ve met Dennis Van Roekel and Lily Esckelson personally. Dennis is a math teacher from Arizona and Lily worked in a school cafeteria to pay her way through college to become a 4th grade teacher in Utah. I even had the pleasure of sitting in a room with Karen Lewis, president of the Chicago Teacher’s Union…. She teaches chemistry up there. Remember, a union is a group of people united (notice the similarity in the words) for a common cause. Teachers’ unions and teachers cannot be separated because they are one in the same.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
October 28th, 2012
8:19 pm
@Charter Starter, Too “And these charter leaders are MORE than just principals – they are also CEOs of non-profits. None of them are getting rich.”
Ahem. I repeat…from the Huffington Post
“An Orange County charter school that gave its principal a $519,000 departure payout was an academic failure that struggled to provide its students with basic materials and qualified teachers, an evaluation by the school district shows.
In 2011-12, NorthStar High School’s directors paid Principal Kelly Young more than twice as much money as they spent on the school’s educational program.
Including her annual salary, bonuses and payout, Young took home at least $824,000 in taxpayer money that year, not including payments she continues to receive for winding down the school’s operations.”
Sounds pretty “rich” to me.
This is what is likely to happen if we let this amendment open the door for for profit Charter schools run by outside interests.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
8:33 pm
@ Charter&Mom,
The hypocritical part isn’t disagreeing with a state charter commission (which, by the way is NOT what the amendment does). You quoted Florida “letting charters in…” Doesn’t make sense to me at all.
Do you realize that most of the locally approved charters get turned down. We have one acquired on open record that has blank rubrics and denied written across the top. They aren’t getting a fair shake. We just want an appeals process that cannot be challenged by the districts. You can appeal if you go to court. You can appeal if your child gets a demerit at school. You can even appeal your tax records. Why not a charter denial?
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
8:43 pm
someone tell charterstarter, 2 to stop yelling
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
8:44 pm
@ I Love Teaching – Helllooooo. We are in Georgia, NOT Florida. Georgia’s charter leaders earn modest salaries because they are funded 26% LESS than the traditional schools – and that’s the locally approved charters. The state charters are significantly less than that. Gotta give you kudos for your creativity in distracting the voters with nonsense.
crankee-yankee
October 28th, 2012
8:49 pm
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
8:33 pm
The appeal process is in place. The powers that be are just feeding you a line about being fearful of litigation. If, however, that is truly their reason for not ruling on appeals in the past year and a half (and I have serious doubts about that) then they wrote the original legislation poorly. But that is just par for the course here in GA.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
8:50 pm
something else which confuses me in all this….
this is obviously the pet project of Fran, Ed. & the red meat crowd. which is fine, that’s how the republic works. got a issue, advocate for it.
thing is, when politicians make such projects a personal issue, they are loathe to see it crash. when is the last time a politician pulled a plug on anything with their name on it?
for all the discussion of charters fail if not functional, what examples can be shown of Fran and co.
allowing something they’ve put so much effort into, to actually fail?
many of the pro charter supporters here are against entitlements, yet they don’t seem to see -or care?- they are supporting the creation of a new one.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
8:53 pm
“@ Catlady – but your superintendent hasn’t given up his pay OR his retirement through all of this”
funny thing, this. we have howled and howled about the administrative bloat and cronyism in the system. and most of the charter supporters have called us whiners, parasites, and worse.
now someone care?
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
8:57 pm
@Teacher&Mom The study you cite is for ONE state, Michigan, in which it states charters receive equal funding. That is not the case in Georgia. Citing one study from another state with different laws and history does not justify trashing a ballot measure here in Georgia.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
8:59 pm
@ d
agreed, the area you work in is very racially/culturally/ect homogenous. so are areas in the midwest, texas, utah, ect.
mixed together, its a melting pot Finland can’t imagine. that’s why the US can’t use the Finnish model. however, it may well apply locally. it would be interesting to give it a shot in selected areas and see what the results are.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
9:01 pm
@ DeKalbParent – thank you for addressing Teacher&Mom. University of Washington did a study that is the only one I’ve seen that shows the national average, which is $68,000 (versus $87,000 for traditional school leaders). It was from a few years ago, but is the most recent I know of. We don’t have a study like that in Georgia – wish we did.
bootney farnsworth
October 28th, 2012
9:01 pm
@ crankee
I think you’re right about them trying to hide a poorly written (therefore easily defeatable) piece of legislation. my guess is the current crop of idiots thought they could just slide it thru with nobody asking too many questions
KIM
October 28th, 2012
9:06 pm
Public educators KNOW what is happening in our schools. That is why they do not support the amendment. They are doing magic with little resources. They are the real heros in our world.
crankee-yankee
October 28th, 2012
9:18 pm
“Helllooooo. We are in Georgia, NOT Florida.”
That is a typical response to the majority of problems that are pointed out in this state which is probably why we have so many problems. No one seems willing to learn from others’ mistakes. From transportation to education and a myriad of problems in between, the ignorant among us are hellbent on repeating discredited theories. Perhaps this is the real reason GA ranks in the lower half of the education tier, decision-makers fail to heed warning signs.
DeKalbParent
October 28th, 2012
9:24 pm
@KIM “Public educators KNOW what is happening in our schools. That is why they do not support the amendment. They are doing magic with little resources. They are the real heros in our world.”
HEROES? I think not! You must not live in DeKalb. Here they are using their “magic wand” to make our tax dollars disappear and move into their wallets!
yuzeyurbrane
October 28th, 2012
9:35 pm
Corporations are people, my friend.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
10:03 pm
@ Crankee-yankee,
I’m all for learning from mistakes. We have, after all, learned a lot about how NOT to operate a public school from some of our very own school districts here in Georgia. The problem with looking at another state with respect to chartering is that their laws and even the political context and climate is often different.
Support Public Education
October 28th, 2012
10:06 pm
I voted no! Do charter schools have buses? They will only serve chosen students. Why don’t public schools have the flexibility of charter schools?
another angle
October 28th, 2012
10:14 pm
While I am not a fan of profit-seeking enterprises trying to influence the vote, I am no more a fan of school administrators seeking to do likewise. In fact, it seems to me that school administrators and teachers should abstain from voting on this amendment. In the corporate world and the legal world, it would be normal course to abstain from voting. Go to the voting booth and vote based on the question, “Will this amendment potentially make things better for the average students?” I have my opinion as to the answer and I am good with whatever you select so long as you are voting with the kids in mind.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
10:18 pm
@ Bootney – I’ve been howling about this for some time now. It’s been a problem for a long, long time. Charters have a way of spotlighting what is ignored or not known by most… which is precisely why the districts fight so hard. Why in the world would they want schools that have been proven to operate more efficiently and produce strong results?
@ Support Public Education – How about “Support kids?” It’s so tiresome hearing folks defend a bureaucracy rather than the children it serves. And yes, so charters do provide transportation – not all, but some. Charters enroll about 50% free and reduced lunch and economically disadvantaged students – we have open enrollment and a lottery. As for why public schools don’t have flexibility…they have since 1993 and have elected NOT to use the option wisely or to give the schools the level of autonomy that charters use to make positive gains. They will NOT relinquish control.
Mary Elizabeth
October 28th, 2012
10:18 pm
“Bookman wrote:
Reading the list of out-of-state contributors to the campaign to pass Amendment 1, the state charter-schools amendment, you get the sense that an old-fashioned gold rush would begin in Georgia the moment the amendment is approved.”
========================================
I agree with Jay Bookman’s thinking on this. Can we, please, not leave just one arena of American life – public education – relatively free of the greed of profit-making?!
Time to pull out my old link showing how many times that charter schools, and other “choice” areas of education, devolve into profit-making. Please read the entire link.
Below, excerpted from the link, is information about the WalMart Foundation and its interest in the charter school movement. (Btw, a member of the Wal-Mart family has contributed $250,000. toward the passing of Georgia’s Amendment 1.)
————————————————————–
“The Walton Family Foundation of Wal-Mart is the single biggest investor in charter schools in the United States, giving $50 million a year to support them. The Waltons specialize in giving money to opponents of public education. ‘Empowering parents to choose among competing schools,’ said John Walton, son of Wal-Mart’s founder, ‘will catalyze improvement across the entire K–12 education system.’ According to a National Committee for Responsive Philanthropy (NCRP) report, ‘Some critics argue that it is the beginning of the ‘Wal-Martization’ of education, and a move to for-profit schooling, from which the family could potentially financially benefit. John Walton owned 240,000 shares of Tesseract Group Inc. (formerly known as Education Alternatives Inc.), which is a for-profit company that develops/manages charter and private schools as well as public schools.’ Wal-Mart is a notorious union-busting firm, famous for keeping its health-care costs down by discouraging unhealthy people from working at its stores, paying extremely low wages with poor benefits, and violating child labor laws. The company has reportedly looted more than $1 billion in economic development subsidies from state and local governments. Its so-called philanthropy seems also to be geared to the looting of public treasuries.” (Assertions are footnoted in the article, in link below.)
—————————————————————————–
http://www.isreview.org/issues/62/feat-charterschools.shtml
Vote NO to Amendment 1.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
10:35 pm
VOTE YES – give families a choice.
Mandella1099
October 28th, 2012
10:37 pm
@DeKalbParent
I will make you a promise. I will vote for the charter amendment if you will never appear on another blog commenting on your school system, “educrats,” or any other paraphrased lines from Nancy Jester’s website. Deal?
sneak peak into education
October 28th, 2012
10:51 pm
Thanks Mary Elizabeth and to all the other voicing real and understandable concerns over the passing of Amendment One- there is much to be afraid of if we give our governor this power. Please consider that the ALEC, the right-wing policy writing group, is behind this amendment. They have stated that they wish to privatize public education and put it in the hands of the profiteers and big corporations. Look at the travesty that has happened to education in other states where ALEC has been successful in implementing their policies, Louisiana and Florida to name a couple. It is fair to say that we CAN AND MUST look at these states to see what will happen if we allow this amendment to pass and it isn’t pretty. Also, please remember that a vote no doesn’t mean you are against charters; it just means you are against giving up your democratic vote to a non-elected board that is controlled by the governor. We just need to look at our leader in the golden dome to see how little he regards public education and how corrupt his actions are; he isn’t called shady deal for nothing.
See the link below to find out what will happen when the floodgates open if the amendment passes; green cards for the Chinese and a promise of a fool-proof way for them to get their hands on government money.
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/10/28/invest-in-charter-schools-get-a-green-card/
Please don’t be fooled into thinking this is about the children; it’s about big business getting their hands on government money.
Vote NO in NOvember
Lee
October 28th, 2012
10:52 pm
Sorta ironic that someone from the AJC would question the influence of money on an election while that same AJC (a for profit company) posts their “picks” in an attempt to influence the election.
Of course, the AJC picks do have some utility. If I’m undecided on a candidate or issue, I’ll read the AJC and vote the opposite of their selection.
another angle
October 28th, 2012
10:57 pm
Sorry, but need to call nonsense on Mary Elizabeth’s 10:18 bashing of John Walton and the Walton Family Foundation.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that John Walton is deceased. Moreover, I believe that Tesseract filed for bankruptcy. Let’s assume for a moment that the preceding is not true and that Tesseract is worth $10,000 a share. Guess what? It would be worth $240 million. While this is not chump change to you and I, that does amount to noise for a guy/family worth billions upon billions. In other words, it is rubbish. It is a straw man argument.
Mary Elizabeth quotes John Walton re his motivation for giving money to opponents to public education: “Empowering parents to choose among competing schools will catalyze improvement across the entire K-!2 education system.” We can argue about whether or not the introduction of charter schools will actually achieve that goal, but it seems the intention, as stated, is an admirable goal.
As to the linkage to all the “bad things” that Wal-mart has done. You are wandering down the straw horse avenue again. Not only because you are quoting critics of the Walton plan but also because you are linking the business to the amendment rather than the actual proponent (Walton Family Foundation).
One last thing to consider about Wal-mart itself: keep an open-mind. You seem to have latched on to the Wal-mart is evil story. While it is convenient to do so, at least consider both sides of coin. There is much I don’t like about the way Wal-mart manages its business, but I also know I am not being honest with myself if I don’t give Walmart credit for helping keep inflation in check and for employing huge numbers of folks across the country, both directly and indirectly.
Janet
October 28th, 2012
11:05 pm
I need a Charter school clarification….
On the 1st page, Lady GaGa says she supports charters to get away from her “subpar” local school. I don’t understand something about that philosophy. If a charter is built, then wouldn’t same the students who occupy your “subpar” school in the same “subpar” location be the same quality of students who would occupy the charter?
I guess that is what I’m missing here… If charters are open to anyone, and one is built in the middle of the ghetto to “compete” local failing traditional schools, then wouldn’t the charter then be filled with the same quality of students who made the traditional school a bad school in the first place?
another angle
October 28th, 2012
11:05 pm
Andrew Carnegie donated $ to build many public libraries in the United States. I don’t know the full tale, but I suspect that this created some controversy. I wonder if the teacher’s union opposed it.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:05 pm
@ Mandella and Lee – gotta admit, you both gave me a chuckle tonight.
@ Another Angle – thanks for addressing that so perfectly. I agree with each of your points.
Mandella1099
October 28th, 2012
11:15 pm
I have an Open Records request that I would like for DeKalb Schools Watch II to support – please examine all spreadsheets and forensic audits of Nancy Jester’s and Fran Millar’s campaign donations to see if any of these organizations from outside of Georgia gave where it counts when it counted….
Mary Elizabeth
October 28th, 2012
11:33 pm
another angle, 10:57 pm
Wal-Mart and the Wal-Mart Foundation are not the issue. That was only one example, selected from many, within the 20 page article of the link I provided, which I hope many have read, in full.
The issue is whether the public is going to vote for turning traditional public education, that has served ALL of the students in this state through public taxes, into a money-making enterprise that may very well leave the state’s children segregated in schools by those whose parents have resources and those whose parents do not.
I saw the ugliness of segregation as a teenager and I do not want to see that inequality ever happen again in Georgia. And I am not speaking of race, but of class status and of the varied resources of different parents. We must neither use our schools for profit purposes for private personal gain, nor must we use our schools to resegregate society into those who “have” vs. those who “have not.” That is not how I see America. That is not the America I wanted to see lived out during my Jim Crow teenage years in Georgia, and that is still not the America I want to see lived out in Georgia during my senior citizen years.
We must improve traditional public education, starting at the ground level, to be able to serve ALL of Georgia’s children equally well, educationally. We can do that through involvement – at the ground level up – starting with involvment by groups of interested parents in their local school board’s activities. Instead of creating separation, create excellence from within by committed involvement. And, if your local school board does not listen to your needs, then organize and vote THEM out of office. YOU stay and make your traditional school systems better. Don’t run away and create a newfound “panacea” of charter schools that will only serve the few at the expense of the many, while rewarding the profiteers.
crankee-yankee
October 28th, 2012
11:44 pm
another angle
October 28th, 2012
10:14 pm
The fact I am a teacher does not preclude me of my right to vote. You see, I am also a parent and a taxpayer.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
10:18 pm
If I were to punish my entire class because of the misdeeds of a handful of students, I suspect I would be hearing from quite a few parents who would, quite rightly, be questioning my class management abilities. Yet, that is exactly what you are proposing with this amendment, place the entire state under an onerous amendment because your elected reps are unwilling to deal with a handful of systems needing a wake-up call.
Dr Monica Henson
October 28th, 2012
11:48 pm
Support Public Education posted, “Do charter schools have buses?” Some do. Others provide bus passes. I have worked with a charter school in Florida whose authorizing district provided school bus transportation for its students.
“They will only serve chosen students.” Wrong. Charter schools are not allowed to select students. If there are more students than there are seats available, then a lottery must be held and the names drawn publicly at random.
“Why don’t public schools have the flexibility of charter schools?” They can, if their districts request waivers of the provisions of Title 20. All school districts have this ability. Most districts simply choose not to seek waivers, except in very limited circumstances, such as the class size waiver when the district wants to have a larger class size average.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:51 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth – I truly, truly want to understand why you have it in your head that charter schools are “money making” enterprises. First of all, the vast majority of charters don’t even have management companies, and the ones that do STILL operate on less that the traditional schools.
Do you not see that K-12 education in general is a MARKET for for-profit businesses? Our school districts…and charters…and private schools…and even home schools purchase all sorts of goods and services: text books, computers, furniture, land, buildings, legal advice, janitorial services, payroll, etc., etc., etc. What we must focus on in public education is training boards thoroughly to ensure they know how to negotiate contracts to benefit the system/school they serve. We also need to make sure these same board members know how to monitor their system/school’s financials – so many do not.
I think you miss the boat entirely with continuing in this vein.
And good grief, are you really going to try to make a case for charters SEGREGATING? We have historically served a higher population of students who were minority and/or economically disadvantaged. Our state charters are higher than the traditional schools in these categories. We desire to serve ALL children whose parents choose to enroll them…and not just serve them, but educate them well.
As an educator, it is surprising to me that you buy so heavily into the bureaucratic structure. Try as I might, I cannot get you to understand that charters are modeling how school level governance WORKS. Districts, particularly large ones, will never be able to meet the specific needs of each school – communities and children in them and their needs vary widely. You KNOW this. Districts will never, ever yield control and give it to parents and community members.
You continue to say that we should “organize and vote.” Think about how much power you REALLY have… you get 1 vote for 1 person every 4 years – and as a parent, that means you get 3 votes through the academic career of your child. Even if parents in Clayton, DeKalb, APS, etc. organized, how long will it take to unseat the members who continue to provide poor leadership and get these districts on the right path? That’s not local control – its an illusion. Contrast the charter model: parents can organize ANYTIME, and if the charter is not meeting its objectives, a majority of parents can CLOSE it. Charters generally have elected boards, too, and parents have a voice in their board elections process as well, AND they may serve as members.
Charters have never been a panacea – what they are is a catalyst. They are putting a spotlight on waste, dysfunction, and poor achievement – things that remain hidden under the rug in many communities. Charters are raising the bar and putting control back into the hands of their communities.
I’ve asked you this before and I can’t recall if you answered…. if you believe an appeals process is appropriate (and I believe you have said you did and we had one) – then why not support affirming that on the ballot? If you hate the idea of a Commission, and you believe in local control (i.e., your House of Rep member who is locally elected) – why don’t you just organize to make some changes to 797?
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:53 pm
@ Crankee-Yankee – Onerous? What do you mean onerous? IF the districts fairly authorize, then the Commission won’t authorize more schools. This is an appeals process – and the districts continue to claim we “have one already.” Why fight affirming this?
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:55 pm
@ Crankee-yankee. Over 10 years, we have 70 independent schools in around 10 districts. It’s more than a “handful” of districts – it’s about 170 of them.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:01 am
@ Janet – and THAT is part of the issue…. traditional districts keep worrying about who they serve and the parents who won’t help, etc., etc.
Charters use the privilege of their flexibility to employ innovative and research based instructional strategies to engage the kids, discipline plans to enforce appropriate behavior to maximize learning time, yearly and daily schedules to extend learning time, teachers with content area expertise – sometimes from the fields specifically (i.e., a biologist to teach biology), different organizational models to provide efficiency and put more money into the classrooms, and a variety of other methods.
Charter founders believe that under the right conditions, children – regardless of race, economic status, or even family situation, CAN and WILL learn. And the main focus/mission becomes how to create those conditions.
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
12:13 am
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:53 pm
Onerous, yes. It is an “appeals” process coming out of a loaded deck. It takes the state’s responsibility to fund any charter school they approve over local dissent and places it in the laps of the district that does not want the charter. THAT is my problem, the state, through an unelected commision, appointed by a gentleman who quit the US Congress under an ethics cloud and is currently populating state agency leadership with political cronies, would get to override local control. Is this not counter to the mantra of conservatives everywhere?
teaching taxpayer
October 29th, 2012
12:16 am
Put forward an amendment that will let taxpayers elect or defeat the people spending tax dollars on charter schools, and I will vote for it. Put forward an amendment that allows Nathan Deal to appoint unaccountable crony bureaucrats who redistribute our tax dollars with no consequences, and I’ll vote against it. No spending of taxation without representation!
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:23 am
@ Crankee-Yankee and Teaching Taxpayer – and yet, this same gentleman populates the state board of education. Should we dissolve that? Then there would be NO oversight over districts….no rules on salary schedules, retirement, health and safety, standard for education, etc.
If the Commission is appointed and you dislike their work, then, as one of the posters said, organize and vote out the individual who appointed them. I really don’t see the difference at all.
And again, the districts don’t lose money. Aside from that, at what point do children and their right to a solid education come into the conversation? Are you saying you’d rather continue to throw good money after bad with many districts who continue to fail kids AND who mismanagement what they get?
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
12:25 am
ChartersStarter, Too
October 28th, 2012
11:55 pm
I do not understand your comment, unless you misunderstood mine. I was referring to the handful of poorly functioning districts in the state, i.e. Dekalb, Clayton, APS, Randolf Co, etc.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:25 am
And by the way, “taxation without representation” is kind of an ignorant argument. We have standards in this state for WHAT can be taxed. You elect our General Assembly (the representation) who has (under the state’s Constitution) the authority to disburse the money as needed across varying programs. The fact that you don’t like how they choose to do that does not make it taxation without representation. You have the power to organize and elect other representatives who may do it better (isn’t that what the opposition keeps telling the charter sector?)
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:29 am
I was referring to the need for an appeals process because of the poor and unfair authorizing practices across our state AND because we have SO MANY FAILING DISTRICTS and need options in these.
Frankly, APS, although their board has been rather dysfunctional and their executive administration questionable, they have actually done a pretty good job on the authorization of charter schools. DeKalb – totally dysfunctional, but has made some decent strides with chartering.
Remember, our state’s graduation rate is 67.4% – that’s the AVERAGE. Abysmal.
teaching taxpayer
October 29th, 2012
12:40 am
That’s really the best you can do, ChartersStarter, Too? “Shady” Deal appoints some of the people who spend taxpayer dollars, and so we should vote to let him make even more such appointments? And his appointment history (See: Lottery, Georgia) is so wonderful! You and I both know there’s one reason Amendment 1 is written the way it is: If it’s passed, “Shady” will have been elected to his second and final term in 2014, and his cronies will have redistributed our tax dollars right into the wallets of yet other cronies LOOONG before we see the actual results, or lack thereof. Remember that for them, it’s all about the kids’ ….. trust funds. Good night, Gracie.
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
12:41 am
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:23 am
Yes the districts will lose funding. The governor’s own budget office confirms it, as well as citing language that allows for increased per pupil funding in charters. This when the state still does not fully fund school districts via their own QBE formula. Districts are already scraping bottom. My class sizes have ballooned to 34 students from a few short years ago when they averaged 24. The state is uninterested in funding the education of its populace. There is a belief throwing education to “for profit” entities will improve education in spite of, at best, mixed results. This whole thing would be laughable if it weren’t so critical to our future.
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
12:49 am
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
12:29 am
Please identify the “…MANY FAILING DISTRICTS” you cite. Give us the data to back up your claim. But again, why punish the districts that are excelling?
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
October 29th, 2012
6:20 am
@another angle “In the corporate world and the legal world, it would be normal course to abstain from voting. ”
Really? Those with corporate interests and legal interests abstain from voting in state elections when the issues that are up for a vote address those interests? Since when?
In that case, every pro-amendment voter who has some connection to Charter schools – parents, teachers, staff or corporate/business interests should abstain from voting as well… right?
Bobby
October 29th, 2012
6:46 am
Clayton County Schools – reason enough for me to have voted yes on Amendment 1.
Does anyone think they would allow a charter in the county in order for kids to escape their grasp? No difference between a county charter and a state charter in how a charter school would run, the only difference is that people in the bad counties will now have an option.
cobbmom
October 29th, 2012
6:49 am
In the past decade the state of Georgia has cut nearly 2 billion, yes billion with a “b”, dollars from the state education budget, but teachers and local school district are blamed when there are problems. Overcrowded classrooms, old textbooks, crumbling structures and out of control children are more to blame than classroom teachers. Instead of looking for more ways to cut funding to public schools the state should be looking at giving more disciplinary control to the classroom teacher and holding parents responsible for their children. Why don’t public schools have the mandatory parental volunteer hours that charter schools have? Perhaps if the parents of problem children had to spend time in the school we would see a difference in the performance of their children and the schools in general.
catlady
October 29th, 2012
6:57 am
SSP and others: Did you notice Chris Christy (gov of NJ) detailing last night that OVER 300 school districts in NJ had decided to be closed today, and OVER 200 had not yet decided?! Your point about our mega-districts is well made. My little system, a county one, has about 4200 students, and seems to me to be the perfect size (although it was more responsive when there were 3200.
catlady
October 29th, 2012
6:59 am
This amendment opens yet another avenue of rip-off, greed, influence-peddling, political rewarding, etc. We sure don’t need another level of this! Georgia’s “leadership” are past masters at it already!
Eddie Hall
October 29th, 2012
7:03 am
As Charter2 stated, those are AVERAGES, and an old tactic to use numbers as a method to scare votes to their side. As I said earlier, the average in my district, and the adjoining district are BOTH in the high 80’s, and until a different method was used to calculate that tracks students that left our school as early as ninth grade to go somewhere else, and penalizes for students who take an extra semester, the average was in the high 90’s.
This MIGHT be a good thing for some, but not most. Don’t forget, while the state peels dollars away from the local system, they will be forced to make up the short fall with increased property taxes. The state uses OUR money to finance a second system, and we pay more taxes. NOT FOR ME! VOTE NO!
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
7:06 am
Bobby
October 29th, 2012
6:46 am
I ask again, you would punish all the effective systems because of Clayton County alone? Somewhat draconian, no?
And the argument is not over how the charters would be run, but who pays for the charter. If the state creates a charter, let the state pay for it out of the general fund.
a reader
October 29th, 2012
7:07 am
Yes to charters, but NO, a world of NO to an amendment to the state constitution. It’s excessive, it’s not the way to do this, and it cedes control from the voters in the state (not just at the local / county level but at the state level as well) to the deep pocketed corporations, lobbyists and for-profit centers.
Please, people, think about the control you are ceding as a voter at both the local and state level. Changes to the constitution should be rare and for extreme cases only that cannot be dealt with in any other way. Changes should not be made to funnel tax money to corporations who aren’t accountable to voters.
Makes Senses huh?
October 29th, 2012
7:24 am
JC. Huizenga who gave $250,000 OWNS (For Profit) Atlanta Heights Charter School, one of the schools which would likely close if this bill fails. It makes sense he is giving to support his own school.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
8:24 am
@ Teaching Taxpayer – Governor Deal was ELECTED. You can sling mud at the man all you want, but he was fairly elected by the state. He has the Constitutional authority to appoint as commissions and agencies. We have all sorts of them. This is a 7 person volunteer Commission. The real control is at the school level with the charter boards.
@ Crankee-Yankee:
33 systems on the Priority list
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/Curriculum-Instruction-and-Assessment/Accountability/Documents/FINAL%20-%20Priority%20Schools%20-%2008.08.12.pdf
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/Curriculum-Instruction-and-Assessment/Accountability/Documents/FINAL%20-%20Focus%20Schools%2003.20.12.pdf
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/Curriculum-Instruction-and-Assessment/Accountability/Documents/FINAL%20-%20Alert%20Schools%2005.15.12.pdf
….These are only Title 1 schools on 2 of the 3 of these lists. Failure is rampant in our state. We MUST do something! Those systems doing great things and using funds efficiently should be absolutely furious with those who aren’t and should be pushing to get them to improve – NOT fighting against raising the bar for all.
And again, I am not sure how an appeals process is “punishment.”
Districts will NOT lose local funding – go look at the Amendment legislation (HR 1162) and the enabling legislation (HB 797). Language explicit in both does not allow districts to have funds taken from them – that was the crux of the last lawsuit, so to protect against another lawsuit, this had to be addressed. And your class size is a DISTRICT DECISION. Go to http://www.open.georgai.gov and check out your district’s salaries, number of non-essential staff, and expenditures. You might be surprised how very “NOT” rock bottom most of the districts are. It is amazing to me that people believe that districts, who have the benefit of economy of scale, are hurting so bad. We have had charter schools limping along at below $4000 per pupil… if charters can be efficient and do it, then why can’t districts? $4000 is not adequate, but frankly, charter averages are in the $7000 range, so any district above that should have some explaining to do on why they’re hurting so badly!
@ Cobb Mom – I am not in disagreement with you. What you must realize, however, is that discipline enforcement, expenditure controls, and establishing school culture (i.e., parental involvement models) are within the control of every single district and always have been. The problem is, to make it actually WORK, you have to push the decision making down to the school level…and central administration will never do that to any substantive degree.
@ Catlady – I have been fussing about tiny districts for months. Look, we have 77 districts under 3000 kids. 77! Every one of them has a superintendent, secretaries, and other central office personnel. Districts could and should combine for efficiency and savings so more money gets to instruction.
IMHO, central offices should do a few very, very limited things: HR (administrative/labor relations only), finance (higher level, audits), legal, accountability/instruction (limited to legal and regulatory, Title 1), food service administration, facilities administration, and oversight. That’s most of what they do now, BUT the scope of this work is way, way, way too broad. Their scope should be narrowed and decision making about each of these areas should be pushed down to the school level. Then “responsiveness” would be a moot point, as the response would be at the school level.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
8:28 am
@ Reader – let’s think about what you are saying here. First of all, we had a Commission operational for 2 and a half years. Did you feel, as a taxpayer, as a community member, any loss of your control? Did you even know the Commission was there?
The Commission’s role would be to approve/deny and oversee. All control is vested in the individual boards of each charter, which are filled with parents, educators, and community members.
Let me issue you a challenge – go to http://www.open.georgia.gov and do a search on expenditures in your local school district. Count how many expenditures go to for-profit enterprises. Moreover, go to the campaign contribution site and view the for-profit vendors contributing to the vote no campaign. For-profits exist in public education. That is not simply with charter schools.
indigo
October 29th, 2012
8:45 am
ChartersStarters Too – 7:29
1. Since you keep charging me with being paranoid, please funish proof of that. (Hint – just calling me that doesn’t make it so)
2. It’s HOW they teach the state’s curriculum, especially science, which, to the fundamentalists, is the work of the devil.
3. I said NOTHING about either “local control”, or the election process. What are you smoking?
4. This ammendment is for the fouding of FUTURE charter schools. As of now, the fundamentalist must call their schools “Christian Acadamys”.
5. I wouldn’t dream of calling you a “meanie head”. However, due to the level of education and maturity you show here, I think “peewee” is the appropriate name.
Me
October 29th, 2012
8:57 am
I think it’s hilarious that people think that the charter schools aren’t going to hire the SAME, that’s right SAME teachers that are teaching in the public school systems. Just like private schools hire the teachers from public schools. You guys are gonna be in for a rude awakening. The Charter schools are a great idea, but parents are gonna do exactly what they did to the public system. Sue and protest to get the schools to change things according to whatever agenda they want, then whine when there are horrible outcomes. Most of you have only your fellow parents to blame for the current system. I mean where do you think things like “social promotion” came from? It came from parents who continuously refusing to have their “little darlings ” retained because it would hurt their self-esteem.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
8:57 am
“Does either worry you?’
Billions of dollars of taxpayer money is spent on our horrible public education system every year. Now tell me again WHY non-tax payer dollars going to charter schools should worry me?
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
8:58 am
“This amendment opens yet another avenue of rip-off, greed, influence-peddling, political rewarding, etc. ”
So basically the exact same thing that has been going on in public education for decades. Got it.
Me
October 29th, 2012
8:58 am
sorry I mean “continuously refused” not continuously refusing
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
8:59 am
Mary Elizabeth
I know you’re pro-union, pro-socialism etc but please give it a rest. You can not defend public education because public education is garbage and the numbers prove it.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:00 am
“Bookman wrote”
Bookman also claimed that the attack in Libya was not a terrorist attack, Obama is awesome and Republicans are evil.
No one takes that hack seriously.
Maureen Downey
October 29th, 2012
9:05 am
@Phil, If you read that piece, Jay — who grew up on bases all over the world as the son of a military officer — was explaining that the attack did not meet the definition of terror. Nor did Jay excuse the failure to protect the embassy
Here is an excerpt of what Jay wrote:
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
9:09 am
@ another angle
I’ll be glad to abstain from voting on this issue when you can enforce the same rules on everyone else.
or for that matter, if you can prove to me Fran Millar doesn’t vote on it.
we are public servants, not public policy makers
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
9:09 am
@ Indigo (CAPS ARE FOR PURPOSES OF SEPARATING YOUR COMMENTS FROM MINE – I AM NOT YELLING.)
ChartersStarters Too – 7:29
1. Since you keep charging me with being paranoid, please funish proof of that. (Hint – just calling me that doesn’t make it so)
SEE YOUR COMMENTS BELOW IN #2.
2. It’s HOW they teach the state’s curriculum, especially science, which, to the fundamentalists, is the work of the devil.
OK, SO WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT THEY ARE DOING THE “DEVIL’S WORK?” AS YOU SAID, SAYING IT’S TRUE DOESN’T MAKE IT SO.
3. I said NOTHING about either “local control”, or the election process. What are you smoking?
I DON’T SMOKE. MY BODY IS A TEMPLE.
I SAID THE OPPOSITION, WHICH YOU ARE PART OF, KEEPS MAKING THE ARGUMENT OF “LOCAL CONTROL.” SOUNDS LIKE YOU (NOT SURPRISINGLY) GO OFF ON YOUR OWN LIMB AND DON’T BELIEVE IN OUR LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AT ALL. HOW, PRAY TELL, DO YOU SUGGEST ANYTHING GET DONE IN THIS STATE IF YOU DON’T GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND JUST ASSUME THAT EVER DECISION MADE BY THE LEGISLATURE IS A BOUGHT ONE? I KNOW LOBBYING IS A BIG THING, BUT HONESTLY, IT DOESN’T DRIVE EVERY PERSON SITTING UP AT THE STATE HOUSE. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WITH INTEGRITY, AND I LIKE TO THINK THAT THE ONES I HAVE VOTED FOR FROM MY COMMUNITY ARE THOSE PEOPLE (OTHERWISE, I’D GET THEM VOTED OUT).
4. This ammendment is for the fouding of FUTURE charter schools. As of now, the fundamentalist must call their schools “Christian Acadamys”.
CHARTERS ARE CAREFULLY VETTED WITH THE LOCALS AND THE STATE – IF THEY EVEN HAVE A WHIFF OF BEING AFFILIATED WITH A RELIGIOUS BODY, THEY ARE DENIED (AND SHOULD BE, AS IT IS AGAINST THE LAW). HAVING “CHRISTIAN” IN THE NAME WOULD BE A RED FLAG.
5. I wouldn’t dream of calling you a “meanie head”. However, due to the level of education and maturity you show here, I think “peewee” is the appropriate name.
LOL. THAT’S MS. PEEWEE TO YOU!
I REALLY DO THINK YOU ARE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS ON THINGS THAT ARE NOT BASED IN FACT – ONLY CONJECTURE. I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THIS HAS EVEN COME FROM – IT’S OUT OF THE BLUE, AND I’VE BEEN AROUND THE CHARTER SECTOR FOR MANY YEARS. THE COMMISSION APPROVED 16 SCHOOLS WHEN THEY WERE OPERATIONAL, AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAS “CHRISTIAN ACADEMY” IN THEIR NAME, AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH FUNDAMENTALISM OR ITS PRINCIPLES. THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS DO A MARVELOUS JOB OF PROVIDING RELIGIOUS AFFILIATED OPTIONS – THAT IS NOT THE ROLE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
9:11 am
@ phil,
like you, I think Bookman is full of poo on this and most every other matter.
however, Bookman’s opinion on Libya has nothing to do with this particular issue.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:12 am
“If you read that piece, Jay — who grew up on bases all over the world as the son of a military officer — was explaining that the attack did not meet the definition of terror. Nor did Jay excuse the failure to protect the embassy”
So “growing up on bases all over the world” gives him military experience now? Hilarious. If the attack was not a terrorist attack then why is Obama calling it a terrorist attack now? I also never said anything about Jay “excusing” the failure to protect the embassy but it is interesting that you bring that up.
“That confusion allows us to place this attack safely within our preferred War on Terror narrative and casts America as the innocent victim of nefarious, brutal men rather than as a major player contending for some share of power and influence in Libya, which is what we are.
So what Jay is basically saying is that America is to blame.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:13 am
“however, Bookman’s opinion on Libya has nothing to do with this particular issue.”
All I did was point out examples of how Bookman is wrong on most everything. Libya was one of three examples.
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
9:14 am
@ChartersStarter, Too
its internet protocol all caps means you’re yelling/shouting/screaming. this is not new, it is common knowledge.
if you can’t or won’t differentiate on such a basic matter, it puts your perspective on larger matters into play. like, charter schools, for example
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:16 am
Maureen Downey
I do find it interesting/weird that you try to go into detail to protect your colleague. I’ve sparred with Bookman over the years and the guy can never admit when he’s wrong. For instance, a few years ago some bloggers were pointing out Obama’s failures as president. One of them involved Obama promising to close GITMO and Bookman blamed it on the Republicans even though Obama had a Democrat Senate and House.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
9:18 am
“All I did was point out examples of how Bookman is wrong on most everything. Libya was one of three examples.” ~ Phil from Athens
“I think Bookman is full of poo on this and most every other matter.” ~ Bootney Farnsworth
Looks like we all 3 agree that Bookman publishes nonsense.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:18 am
“The GOP argues that the administration was attempting to hide its own security failing, but frankly that makes no sense either.”
Another Bookman lie. See Maureen, if you just read what Bookman writes, you can find all kinds of lies. From day one, Obama and his administration claimed that a video caused riots that killed 4 Americans. Two weeks later his admin started calling it a terrorist attack once e-mails came out to prove that it was a terrorist attack. Bookman loves to blame the GOP because he is in the tank for the Democrats.
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
9:20 am
I’ll repost something in simpler language for the rabid supporters of this mistake:
-considering the considerable political weight thrown behind this, what makes you think this won’t
become another Sonny Perdue fish camp?
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
9:25 am
@ Bootney – I was trying to make it easier for the reader, which, it would seem, would be more important than some unstated protocol that you feel the need to police. Give it a rest, will ya?
Maureen Downey
October 29th, 2012
9:26 am
@Phil, Sat next to Jay for years. He is one of the brightest, most well read people I ever met. His knowledge of US history is amazing. (I also admire that he got into Harvard but chose Penn State. )
Maureen
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:34 am
“Sat next to Jay for years. He is one of the brightest, most well read people I ever met. His knowledge of US history is amazing. (I also admire that he got into Harvard but chose Penn State. )
Maureen
That’s nice. I’m sure he is bright but living on a military base does not give one military experience. Also, I don’t really care what his knowledge of US history is considering the guy is on the wrong side of most every issue. Penn State over Harvard? Dang, that is something. He picked the university that will now have the worst reputation in the history of scandals over Harvard. Also, I never said Jay was/is a stupid person. I just said that he is a hack and spends most of his time covering for a failed administration while blaming the GOP for every problem in America.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:35 am
@Maureen
I’m not sure what your last comment has to do with Libya or education. I never said that Jay is not bright. I’ve said many times that he is a smart guy just wrong on most issues.
williebkind
October 29th, 2012
9:38 am
I have one question for you college educated minds and that is how much would it save the state on salaries, insurance, and pensions if charter schools replaced public schools.
williebkind
October 29th, 2012
9:39 am
If Jay is a liberal he is not very bright in my mind.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:40 am
williebkind
It would save a lot of taxpayer dollars. People who have no kids and pay for public education should be happy about this.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:43 am
williebkind
Quick story. Jay once wrote a piece about one of his daughters who went off to UNC to get a masters in poetry writing. Several people jumped all over that because Jay often ridicules Wall Street and big business. When someone asked Jay how in the world his daughter would ever get a job with a worthless degree like poetry writing, he banned that person.
williebkind
October 29th, 2012
9:44 am
Phil,
The last I read is that the American family size is declining but education costs are rising.
Ronin
October 29th, 2012
9:48 am
No surprise here about the funding coming from outside the state in favor of the amendment and local educators providing funding against it.
Local district schools have nothing to worry about if they have a strong program.
Willie @ 9:38, how much will it save? A lot. Pension liability and health insurance are a major factor in budgeting for state enmployees in retirement.
Colonel Jack
October 29th, 2012
9:48 am
I voted NO and I will tell you why. The way to “fix” public education isn’t necessarily through competition. Rather, it’s through the ballot box. Elect school board members who will bravely say NO to the morons who are trying to “improve” education by jumping on any new bandwagon that comes along. Elect school board members who will not go along with clowns like Michelle Rhee and Arne Duncan. Elect school board members who will remember at all times that the Superintendent of your system works for them, not the other way around, and that they work for YOU and can be fired by you at any time. If school boards had the interests of the children at heart (as they say they do), this amendment might not be seen as necessary by some.
My thoughts. Your mileage may vary.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:56 am
“The last I read is that the American family size is declining but education costs are rising.”
Yep, which is why people should be happy that their tax money isn’t going to failing schools. Some cities are closing schools because the number of kids has fallen over the last few years. I’m really not sure just why costs are going up in colleges considering the jobs aren’t there for grads. Who wants to graduate with an average of 50,000 dollars in student loans and have to move back in with mom and dad?
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:57 am
“The way to “fix” public education isn’t necessarily through competition.
Competition always keeps costs down.
“Elect school board members who will bravely say NO to the morons who are trying to “improve” education by jumping on any new bandwagon that comes along.”
That makes ZERO sense. None whatsoever.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
9:59 am
“Pension liability and health insurance are a major factor in budgeting for state enmployees in retirement.”
Yep, and a lot of these people make way too much money. Just look at the midwest and their fights with union members. The CTU just went on strike, during a recession, and demanded a salary increase, less working days and lower amount of kids per class.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
10:07 am
Colonel Jack
Your plan is to
1. Vote out a majority of the 700 board members across the state.
2. Replace the 250+ Superintendents
That’s a pretty tall order. Superintendents and their related organizations have the most to gain by keeping keeping the status quo.
What’s plan B?
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:18 am
@ Colonel Jack….
1 vote
1 board member
Every 4 years
3 times in your child’s career
How long will it take to make the changes we need? It’s already too late for some kids.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
10:18 am
My I ask a crazy question?
If the avg State Charter in Georgia gets 62% of the funding of the avg traditional public school, Who cares how that money is spent by a state chartered school as long education improves?
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:19 am
@ Dekalb Inside Out – it’s an even taller order than that. There are well over 1000 current board members. And superintendents are appointed, so the public has no way to get them out.
sneak peak into education
October 29th, 2012
10:27 am
@charter charter-you and othesr who argue about all the ills of our local boards, who are elected by the public, have totally contradicted yourself. You have repeatedly stated that it is unfair for local boards to have control over local tax dollars and decide how to spend them, even though that is what they were elected for. At 8:24am you state that the arguments against the ineptness of Deal is wrong because he was fairly elected.
You can’t have it both ways.
VOTE NO IN NOVEMBER-YES, I AM YELLING IT FOR ALL TO HEAR.
sneak peak into education
October 29th, 2012
10:29 am
@Charter Starter; you stated earlier about the masses of failing districts in Georgia and you were asked to provide details of the masses. Still waiting.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:30 am
Has anyone considered that our student growth is at 41% over about a 10 year period and our district administration budget has grown at about 74% (nearly double the student growth). What is this doing to not only our state and local budget to support this level of administration, AND, what this will do to the state budget LONG TERM in extra retirement payouts for these people?
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
10:41 am
“you stated earlier about the masses of failing districts in Georgia and you were asked to provide details of the masses. ”
Dekalb, Clayton, Fulton all come to mind. You must have missed the mass cheating scandal that took place in Atlanta.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
10:42 am
“You have repeatedly stated that it is unfair for local boards to have control over local tax dollars and decide how to spend them, even though that is what they were elected for. ”
That’s not what they were elected to do.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:46 am
@ Sneak Peak – I gave you the link to the state DOE’s list of focus, alert, and priority schools…as a start. These are only the Title I schools. List 1 had 33 districts….the list grows list by list.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:47 am
@ Phil – tell me, please, that you are not a business owner. If you are, and you don’t understand basic economics, I am very concerned for you and the future of the business you may run.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:56 am
@ Sneak Peak – I take no issue with local boards controlling their local budgets. That has never been the issue for me. What I have a problem with as a taxpayer is WASTE of that money and mismanagement. I expect them to make prudent decisions that, when the economy is poor, does not require them to negatively impact our teachers and classrooms. It’s about priorities and fiduciary responsibility, which in MANY (not all) districts fail to be about kids and sensible management.
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
10:58 am
“tell me, please, that you are not a business owner. If you are, and you don’t understand basic economics, I am very concerned for you and the future of the business you may run.”
Deflect all you want, start. It won’t change the fact that you can’t defend the failing public school system.
Fed Up Parent
October 29th, 2012
11:03 am
The Anti Charter Amendment folks are a bunch of self-serving knuckle heads that are afraid of losing control of their bloated little fiefdoms! They are further misrepresenting that facts by trying to strike fear in people by saying that these will be state run schools. The fact is that these schools will be run by individual charter operators at the REQUEST of the local communities that are fed up with the complete ineptitude of our local school boards. It’s time for parent in Georgia to have a choice and take back the control of our public schools!!!!
Mary Elizabeth
October 29th, 2012
11:05 am
Phil in Athens, 8:59 am
“Mary Elizabeth
I know you’re pro-union, pro-socialism etc but please give it a rest. You can not defend public education because public education is garbage and the numbers prove it.”
=====================================
Name calling is the last refuge of those that have no substantive response. All I will write in response to your post to me, above, is to speak directly to the readers of this blog.
“Readers, please read my 11:33 pm post of last evening (10/28/12), which I believe you will find worthy of reading and which, obviously, was perceived by Phil in Athens to be threatening.”
Vote NO in NOvember to Amendment 1. I explained why readers should vote NO in my 11:33 pm of last evening (page 2 of this thread).
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
11:07 am
“Name calling is the last refuge of those that have no substantive response.”
Reading comprehension isn’t your thing, Mary. I didn’t “name call.” You are pro abortion because I’ve read your posts on Bookmans blog. You’re also a pro-government person as well.
““Readers, please read my 11:33 pm post of last evening (10/28/12), which I believe you will find worthy of reading and which, obviously, was perceived by Phil in Athens to be threatening.”
You are some piece of work, Mary. Project much? You threaten me about as much as a piece of grass.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
11:10 am
Allow me to take this time to say that school districts on average get record breaking amounts of money. We spend per student as much now as we ever have in adjusted dollars.
We are 49th out of 50 in education. We generally don’t hold our local boards accountable. We demonstrably don’t hold our school districts accountable.
If not state chartered schools, what’s the plan?
Phil from Athens
October 29th, 2012
11:22 am
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=323010333
#1 Alabama beats #11 Miss St. 38 – 7
Ray
October 29th, 2012
12:06 pm
Let’s see: $1.3 million raised by the pro-amendment forces, 70-75% of which is from about 5-6 wealthy out-of-state donors. $18,000 raised by anti-amendment groups, by small, in-state donors. Hmmmmm. I wonder what that could mean?
WHAT A JOKE. WAKE UP AND VOTE NO!!
Claudia Stucke
October 29th, 2012
12:23 pm
“Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?” I think we’re overlooking an important qualifier in this proposal: “upon the request of local communities.” There are many local communities that would welcome a charter school; but if they don’t, no one is shoving it down their throats. Just sayin’ . . .
d
October 29th, 2012
12:28 pm
@Claudia – the ballot language has nothing to do with what the actual amendment is trying to accomplish. That is just your General Assembly trying to do the ol’ bait and switch. We already have state or local approval…. if the language was true to the intent, we wouldn’t need the amendment to begin with.
Fed Up Parent
October 29th, 2012
12:36 pm
D……..please give us more FACTS! Not HYPERBOLE! I think Claudia is spot on!!! The amendment is what it is in black and white print.
Mary Elizabeth
October 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
Phil from Athens, 11:07 am
Phil, please know that I did not mean to insult you. I am not a Socialist. Desiring more of a balance between the power of the government and the power of the private sector, and advocating for a woman’s right to exercise choice in her reproductive destiny, does not mean that I am a Socialist. I am a Liberal Democrat. The way you framed these issues in your response to me indicated to me that you were threatened, somewhat, by a more progressive perspective.
I wish you well, even as I disagree with you on the value of Amendment 1 to Georgia’s educational delivery to all of Georgia’s students.
Retiree
October 29th, 2012
1:09 pm
I keep seeing and hearing that state approved charter schools will close if this ammendment does not pass. I also understand that the current approval process for state approved charter schools is still alive and well. So, if the ammendment is NOT approved, why will the state charter schools have to close?
sneak peak into education
October 29th, 2012
1:28 pm
@Charter Starter-I disagree with what you say regarding local boards-many, including you, gripe about how difficult it is getting the local BofE to do your bidding and how difficult it is to vote them out. Repeatedly it has been suggested that you run against the local board and if you get enough votes you get to help implement the change that the public voted you in for. That is one of the major reasons the proponents state for passing this amendment. Yet, when others state about the shady deals that our current governor has been involved in together with his high level of cronyism (last week he appointed one of his cronies to run the Georgia Lottery even though she has little to no qualifications to do while other applicants did) and we are supposed to get over it and trust that he will do the right thing because, guess what, he was democratically voted in. You and the others who gripe about the DEMOCRATICALLY VOTED local BofE because the”dumb masses” voted them in when the same is true for our governor. I certainly do not trust that the has good intentions for public education because he has already shown great disregard for it. Many of the people who chose to vote no are doing so because of a variety of reasons but I can bet that right up there at the top of the list is the fact that they don’t trust our governor and don’t agree with adding another layer of unnecessary and expensive government.
sneak peak into education
October 29th, 2012
1:29 pm
By the way, I forgot to say, Vote NO in NOvember; I just did.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
1:31 pm
@ d – Go through this with me and help me to understand the validity of your statement that “we already have state or local approval…”
1. If the Supreme Court said locals had EXCLUSIVE control (i.e., unshared), how does the state have authority to approve on appeal?
2. If the Supreme Court said that charters don’t meet the definition of “state chartered special school,” then how would this not logically apply to those same charters (if the Commission is not operational) going to the state. What changes with these schools that suddenly helps them to meet the definition?
3. Sally Fitzgerald said last week that there WOULD be a lawsuit….why would they sue if the amendment fails if, as the opposition claims, we already have a state authority to approve on appeal.
I have been trying to get those questions answered for weeks and so far, NOBODY has been able to do it and few have even tried.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
@ Sneak Peak – again, I don’t have an issue with boards being elected by their local communities. But I expect them to do their jobs when they are there – particularly when it comes to fulfilling their fiduciary responsibilities.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
1:39 pm
@ Ray – you say, “Let’s see: $1.3 million raised by the pro-amendment forces, 70-75% of which is from about 5-6 wealthy out-of-state donors. $18,000 raised by anti-amendment groups, by small, in-state donors. Hmmmmm. I wonder what that could mean?”
Do you not find it exceedingly ODD that our local school districts, who serve 1.6 MILLION children in this state could not muster up more than $100,000 in this state from parents and local businesses?
Furthermore, they have also not attracted support from out of state either from large foundations like those that have supported the charter sector.
That, to me, is a deafening message that the current bureaucracy lacks public support and confidence. I’d be mortified to have this poor level of support if I monopolized the whole system.
Just A Teacher
October 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
“Looking to the future, local districts may see more pressures and challenges ahead. The federal budget and deficit crisis may yield deep cuts to the federal education funding that helps local systems provide for the neediest students. In Georgia, the potential creation of a separate publicly funded state charter school system may lead to additional decreases in funding that systems cannot afford.”
This is from the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute web page. It follows what Dr. Barge, our State Superintendent of Schools says. Here is a link to the page.
http://gbpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/survey-says-trouble-for-schools-10152012-final1.pdf
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
1:41 pm
@ Sneak Peak: “…they don’t trust our governor and don’t agree with adding another layer of unnecessary and expensive government.”
But they trust school board elected officials who have demonstrated an inability to manage money OR to produce student outcomes.
In voting no, you are also saying quite clearly that you don’t trust your own local people – parents, teachers, and community members – to understand the needs of the community and the children and to effectively govern at the school level. This amendment ensure there is a pathway for local communities to be MORE engaged in public education – a pathway that the districts and their affiliates have thrown trees in front of over and over.
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
“In voting no, you are also saying quite clearly that you don’t trust your own local people – parents, teachers, and community members – to understand the needs of the community and the children and to effectively govern at the school level”
to a small degree, yes. these are the same people who made the choices – when they could be bothered to to act at all- which put the morons who created this mess in place.
but at least for me, I’m voting no since I flatly don’t trust the legislators who put this deal in place.
bootney farnsworth
October 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
@ ChartersStarter, Too,
give it a rest,,,,naw, I don’t think so. it falls under the same umbrella as learning to speak english if you want to succeed in our society.
besides, with that as in so many other things, you’re dead wrong.
speaking of giving things a rest, are you on somebody;s payroll and being paid by the post?
Ray
October 29th, 2012
2:15 pm
Charter Starter:
Kyle Wingfield in his piece talks about $104,000+ raised by the anti-amendment side in a previous reporting period. Maybe the anti-amendment side should have done a better job of fund raising, but that doeas not negate the stunning proportion of out-of-state money raised on the pro-amendment side — out-of-state money that is clearly driven by ideological interests and financial self-interests (i.e., private charter school companies looking to rake in Georgia taxpayer dollars). That is just nauseating and repulsive. Then on top of that you add the deceptively worded ballot language, and this whole charter amendment stinks. If this charter amendment is so great, why is it being mostly funded by a handful of wealthy out-of-state interests, and why is the ballot language so deceiving?
Mary Elizabeth
October 29th, 2012
2:40 pm
In the Atlanta Forward forum of today, moderated by Maureen Downey, State Sen. Fran Millar, a member of ALEC, writes the following question for the public to consider:
“. . .for-profit companies can make money by running these schools. Why do we care if this means we increase academic performance.”
——————————————————————–
I believe that my below remarks, lifted from my more extensive reponse on Jay Bookman’s first thread of today, attempts to explain to the public why we should not allow our public schools to be transformed into money-making vehicles for profiteers, especially since the Stanford University Study has demonstrated that only 20% of charter schools fare better than traditional public schools and that 37% fare worse.
——————————————————-
“Georgia, especially Atlanta, has historically valued money-making more than it values education, unlike North Carolina and Virginia.
One of the positive effects of education is that it instills in each educated person an internal strength, or strong personal autonomy, which refuses to identify exclusively with any group – outside of one’s self. If Georgia were to place more priority upon education, instead of an out-of-balance priority upon the making of money, I believe that that change would be instrumental in diffusing the one-party conservative power in Georgia (whether it is called Democratic or Republican) because education of the populace, as Jefferson well understood, will create a more progressively thinking populace which will listen to their own internal/ personal values, rather than identifying exclusively with the values of those outside of oneself who wield power – and who may actually use the ignorant and unaware for their own mercenary purposes.
This is one reason that Amendment 1 must be defeated. It is not healthy for Georgia’s public schools to be transformed into charter schools which will not only resegregate the populace – by class now, not race – but will also cause education to become a money-making enterprise for the personal gain of profiteers. Money-making should not be the purpose of education. Education’s purpose is to enlighten and to build skills, not to make money. An emphasis upon improving traditional public education, not motivated by profit, as well as an embracing of a more diverse demographic will build a more progressive Georgia which will refuse to sustain a system of ‘haves’ and ‘have nots,’ carried over from Georgia’s Antebellum past. Those changes will diffuse a one-party political party of power/wealth which controls the masses in Georgia.”
————————————————————————–
Vote NO in NOvember to Amendment 1.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
Ray – “Lots of out-of-state money”
Who cares as long as the state chartered schools are providing a better education?
Ray
October 29th, 2012
3:15 pm
Dekalb Inside Out; Call me cynical, but the motivation for an out-of-state interest writing check for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars is not to “provide a better education for the children of Georgia”, but rather because they think they can make significant money in Georgia if the amendment passes. So I’m not buying any altruistic motives here.
And as far as providing a better education goes, it is now pretty well documented that the private, for profit driven companies are pretty much scamming the public when it comes to higher education — the Univ. of Phoenix, et al. crowd. And without public dollars those private, for-profit education companies would not exist. So no, I don’t think we should open the door to the same kind of thing at k-12, and I don’t think most people would if they understood what was going on.
Just A Teacher
October 29th, 2012
3:23 pm
There is no proof that charter schools outperform traditional public schools. Instead of trying to circumvent the will of the people by putting a misleading proposition on the ballot, the governor and his cronies need to focus on fulfilling their obligation to ALL of the student population in Georgia. The Georgia constitution requires that the state provide an adequate education to each of its citizens. This is not being done! A decade of massive cuts to educational funding and now trying to siphon off funding for an ill conceived plan to privatize public education has to make one wonder what type of government this state actually has. If this amendment does pass, it should be challenged immediately in the courts, especially since it is guaranteed on the ballot to improve academic performance. In other words, if the worst charter school does not outperform the best public school or if one student performs better in a public school than in a charter school, the whole thing should be thrown out. I graduated from a public school system and 2 public universities, and I know many people who went to private schools and are not nearly educated as I am.
In order to vote for this amendment, you must first believe that all public schools are somehow failing to educate children. I can assure you this is not the case.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
3:32 pm
Ray,
I hear you. Call me cynical, but the motivation for the Superintendents and administrators writing checks to oppose this amendment is not to “provide a better education for the children of Georgia”, but rather because they think they can continue to make significant money in Georgia if the amendment fails. So I’m not buying any altruistic motives either!
If a state chartered school isn’t providing a better education than the traditional school down the street, then nobody will go to it and it will fail and close. Each state chartered school is independent so our exposure to flaming burnouts as referenced in Maureen’s last post is divided and spread out. Each state chartered school only gets 62% of the money a traditional school gets so the amount of money with which to flame out is limited.
sneak peak into education
October 29th, 2012
3:49 pm
@Charter Starter-you said “In voting no, you are also saying quite clearly that you don’t trust your own local people – parents, teachers, and community members – to understand the needs of the community and the children and to effectively govern at the school level”. Just because you say this doesn’t make it so and it quite vain of you to say that you know what I think because of my actions. I voted no for a number of reasons but my no vote has nothing to do with charter schools. I believe the process we currently have in place is adequate and I voted NO (VERY PROUDLY) because I don’t believe in adding another layer of government and don’t believe that our governor has good intentions when it comes to public education. So there, you are wrong to presume so much about me. I get the feeling that the proponents for amendment 1 in this blog thought that the public would just be so willing to blindly go along with this amendment that there would be little or no opposition to it. That is far from the truth and it seems when bloggers put their genuine concerns on this blog, some of the opponents reply in a snarky and very condescending manner, some even resort to name calling. I applaud those who are willing to look into this and see the amendment for what it truly is; it;s the work of the right-wing policy writing group ALEC, whose education chair person just happens to be Jan Jones, to start the process of privatizing public education and put it in the hands of the profiteers. It is also disingenuous to suggest that there is more local control to be gained by giving up your right to vote for at the local level and put major decisions into the hands of a non-elected board. It is also disingenuous to suggest that it will not impact the local school budgets when the legislature has not said where the money will come from if this amendment passes. VOTE NO in NOvember. I did and it was AWESOME.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
Just A Teacher
Outperforming traditional schools – It doesn’t matter if state chartered school outperforms a traditional public school or not. Parents know what is best for their children. Given a choice, parents will choose the best school for their children. If a state chartered school isn’t better than the alternatives then it will fail and close.
Adequate Funding – The Georgia Constitution does not define what adequate funding is. Perhaps adequate funding is 50% of QBE while 100% of QBE is phenomenal funding.
School districts are getting their money. School districts are breaking records for the amount of money they are spending per student and yet performance is at an all time low. I don’t see how more money from the state is going to change that.
Chartered schools are public schools and not private schools.
There is no guarantee on the ballot that state chartered schools will improve academic performance … where did you get that there’s a guarantee somewhere?
The worst charter school needs to perform better than the best traditional school??? Are you saying that the Ivy Prep state chartered schools in South DeKalb are worthless unless the students perform better than the students at Cherokee High?
Ahhhhhhhh …. C’mon …. Earth to “Just A Teacher”, we want you back
In order to vote for this amendment, you must first believe that some public schools are somehow failing to educate children. I can assure you that is an understatement.
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
6:09 pm
@CharterStarter
I have to admit. I am impressed, you have hit on all of the pro amendment talking points. Have you been checking them off as you ramble on?
I checked out the links you posted but have come up with a somewhat different take on what you are spouting.
You claim 33 systems are failing (Priority Schools). I look at the list and see the majority of the systems with one school on the list. If you were truly aware as to why a school could end up on the list you would want to look deeper. A system with only one school on the list I would not count unless it was on there for multiple years. Given that, there are only 9 systems with two or more schools on the Priority list and even a few of them could be discounted because of the size of the system vs. the number of schools and the type of school (traditional vs alternative). But I’ll stay with the number nine, just for you. This is out of how many systems in the state? I know the number but you can look it up for yourself, I’m not here to feed you your research. nine systems out of the total number in the state with 2 or more schools is not masses of failing systems.
When you cherry pick numbers without looking at the details, you discredit yourself.
Fail
CY 2.0
October 29th, 2012
7:30 pm
As an English teacher, I feel the need to point out that the appropriate way to differentiate your thoughts, feelings, comments, etc. from those of another is to put the other persons thoughts, feelings, comments, etc. in quotation marks. That has been the standard for longer than any of us have been alive.
Additionally, to add my two-cents worth to this conversation, there are two points I would like to make.
1. Spending is going to and should increase at a faster and higher rate than student growth. Things are simply more expensive now. Let’s just take technology for example here: there is more technology in the classroom today than there was 10 (or even 5) years ago. It would be much cheaper to get rid of all those computers are the like, and I will be the first to admit that there is a good deal of wasteful spending when it comes to technology, but any classroom that does not utilize technology is not truly preparing students. I cannot imagine many jobs that will not require students to have at least a basic understanding of technology.
2. Several people have made contradictory comments about voting, sometimes in the same post. The truth is that one solitary vote doesn’t necessarily amount to much most of the time. The power is not in one vote. The power lies in many people voting. If everyone says their vote doesn’t matter and uses that as an excuse not to vote, then they are fulfilling their own prophesy. Instead, if an entire community refuses to accept anything less than the very best and unites to make sure their elected officials are truly working for progress, then huge change can be made. So, regardless of which way you are going to vote, go out and do it. Imagine if we had more than 70% of eligible voters actually voting. Only then will we have elected officials who actually represent their communities.
CY 2.0
October 29th, 2012
9:46 pm
Before someone else points out my error – persons in the first paragraph should be person’s.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:34 pm
@ Retiree – State charters are in danger for a couple of reasons: the state’s authority to approve is open for legal challenge. On Oct. 23, Sally Fitzgerald, head of policy for PTA, stated at a community forum that there WILL be a lawsuit. If this happens a couple of things could occur: 1) the state’s authority could be struck down 2) they could strike down the funding supplement for the charters which would take them back to about $3500 per pupil (state average is $8999 per pupil). At this level, the state schools would not be sustainable.
This amendment protects the state’s authority to approve and oversee schools on appeal, as well as statewide schools (like virtual schools).
Lady GaGa
October 29th, 2012
10:36 pm
@Janet – What I’ve noticed is the opposite of what you propose. The students with parent involvement & those who are good students are the ones applying for and getting into the charter school we have here locally. In their home schools, there may have been too many distractions (poor behavior, unmotivated students, students that are behind & drag the instruction down). In the charter school environment, all of these students excel because of the environment i.e. they all WANT to be there, all are more motivated.
Please understand, I think ALL students deserve a great education but environment matters. Sad to say but some parents don’t push and support their kids in the right way..that’s what hurts these schools. Its very little wrong with teachers -few bad apples surely- its mainly kids with sorry parents. In my opinion, charters help with this problem. Not pretty, but true.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
10:58 pm
@ Crankee-Yankee – First of all, these are ONLY the Title I schools. Please go (if you’d like to take the time) and find out how many of those districts only have 1-3 schools in the district. Almost half of our districts in this state serve less than 3000 students. You asked me for detail, and that is a good place to start – you can just as well go look up the AYP report and the number of years schools were in NI status. We have a 67% graduation rate. We are somewhere in the bottom 3-5 states in the nation. If you want to die on this mountain saying how great our public school system is with that kind of data – that’s fine. We have some successful, well run districts, too, but they are dwarfed by the many who aren’t and don’t.
I love Georgia, and I believe in the teachers we have in this state to get us where we need to go – if the central offices would LET them and would apply resources where they NEED to go. Charters are doing just that and showing districts it CAN be done.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
11:06 pm
@ CY 2.0 –
I will endeavor to use quotation marks instead of capitalization if that would please the crowd.
1. I am not in disagreement with you about the cost of things (i.e., technology) – IF that is where the spending was going. It’s not. Spending in general administration is increasing. I just want money to go into instruction – I’d be DELIGHTED to seeing more of it going to technology rather than another Associate Superintendent.
2. I agree.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 29th, 2012
11:27 pm
Correction – DELIGHTED to see more of it…
Ronin
October 30th, 2012
7:19 am
@Charter Starter, your comment: ” On Oct. 23, Sally Fitzgerald, head of policy for PTA, stated at a community forum that there WILL be a lawsuit.”
I wouldn’t doubt it. Even if the amendment passes, it won’t be long before the next action begins.
Funding should follow the child in the form of a voucher.
Georgia Politics, Campaigns and Elections – Georgia Politics, Campaigns & Elections for October 30, 2012 – Georgia Pundit
October 30th, 2012
7:32 am
[...] drinking deeply from the well of “Other People’s Money” would be the pro-Charter School Amendment groups. Groups backing the charter schools constitutional amendment have again pulled in far more money [...]
ChartersStarter, Too
October 30th, 2012
9:20 am
It is scary the level of blind faith some folks put into school boards and groups like PTA. Scary. Throughout history, blind faith has always led to destruction of some kind or another. Our public school system has been on a steady decline in terms of fiscal accountability and achievement for years. And yet, we still have some in the public who, rather than looking at what’s happening to our tax dollars and economy and looking at what’s happening to our children and the rising poverty rate and dependence on social programs in our state, cling to idealistic things things like “local control.”
I really, really hope that people will question the validity of the opposition’s argument and consider why they are fighting so hard (and in my view, so dirty) to prevent this amendment from passing.
ChartersStarter, Too
October 30th, 2012
9:24 am
And just to be clear, when I say “idealistic,” that is because the local control people THINK they have with district boards isn’t control at all.
If we want TRUE local control, then ensuring parents have a voice in where their children attends schools must happen. Parents and the community a school serves must have a direct and profound impact on decision making. That’s local control.
Local control is NOT voting for one person on a board every 4 years. One person on a board, particularly if they don’t go along with the status quo, can easily be marginalized, in which case, your vote and your voice doesn’t matter one bit.
Fed Up Parent
October 30th, 2012
9:46 am
“. . .for-profit companies can make money by running these schools. Why do we care if this means we increase academic performance.” ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!!
What a joke! Read the amendment folks…….Here’s what it says…..”such state charter schools shall not include private, sectarian, religious, or FOR PROFIT schools or private educational institutions”.
Private Citizen
November 1st, 2012
1:41 pm
Let us not forget or underestimate the amount of testing, ritual, agenda, jargon and just sheer dictate and control etc. that the current government schools require. It would be one thing if there were five problems or incomprehensible protocols from the current government school system, but it is more like twenty. And they keep changing things, out with the old, in with the new, absolute attention and obedience required. It makes your head spin. Recently saw an hour long interview video with John Taylor Gatto and within the interview, he arrived at the term “incoherence,” that the current government system seems to have an agenda of “incoherence.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8 The video takes a while to get to content; it is not well edited, but once in gets going, it’s good. -might want to scan / skip the first 10-15 minutes.
Private Citizen
November 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
cued up: education as “incoherence” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8#t=66m17s
Keith
November 2nd, 2012
12:03 pm
I live in Gwinnett where the gestapo superintendent listens no NO ONE except politicians and land developers. Where an elementary school is built in the shadow of a major landfill. Where nicely balanced school districts are split into rich schools and a poor schools. Where the poor schools are ruled by ‘virtual’ dropouts; those that are allowed to attend so they can meet the requirements for a drivers license but have otherwise given up on graduating and instead constantly clown and disrupt each day, making it impossible for others to succeed. Where my children see drug activity on an almost daily basis but somehow the administration sees and does nothing. Do I believe it is the right thing for the Georgia school system? I’m torn. I hear the compelling arguments about funding and control by an unelected committee. But if it forces superintendents to climb down from their dictator thrones and actually start listening to parents in order to COMPETE and survive, it is not a bad thing! Choice is good for the customer and the customers are the children.