DeKalb’s Nancy Jester: Parents deserve more choices. “Yes” on charter schools amendment.

Dissension among school board members will invite SAX into the picture. Sounds like Ms. Jester didn’t get her way about something. Actually, the “gravy train” is for the for-profit out of state management companies.

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moderated already?

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For profit gravy train, straight from the school board talking points. Those of us in Dekalb have to try something different. We have a super who plays the game, a felon on the school board, and a central office that hires friends and family like it’s going out of style. Frankly I will welcome our new gravy train overlords, I bet they can’t do any worse.

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Already voted on Monday 10-15-2012. NO to Charter Schools. This amendment is so similar to ‘Seperate but Equal’ that was declared unconstitutional back years ago. If parents want a different education experience for their children, send them to Woodward Academy, Pius or another school of the like. I get sick of a Republican controlled state always looking for tax dollars to support their agenda but at the same time calling for ‘No New Taxes’.

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I’m not worried. I’ve decided to let Obama be my kids’ dad. He can give them healthcare, education and free them from all the troubles of the world. So make sure you vote…give my kids the education and dad they deserve.

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’separate but equal’……geez. What else can we say to scare the public and make sure we change nothing? I can’t believe the number of people willing to protect the ‘real’ for profit people in the current system (superintendents, local boards and their cronies, and all the other ‘fat’ that should be trimmed from these systems). Vote Yes and give families options.

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Nancy, what have you done, in your position, to move forward charter school applications? And what has been her role in shutting down non-performing schools? How has she helped hire superintendents who are not “educrats?”

She is talking out of both sides of her mouth. She should be replaced, at the very least.

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“Parents deserve more choices.”
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Parents have more choices right now without changing Georgia’s Constitution in order to accommodate essentially, imo, a politically based state Commission for Charter Schools. They can apply to the state Board of Education to establish a state charter school, if they are denied a charter school by their local school district.

See below, as to why I believe that this Constitutional Amendment is more political than educational.

Posted originally 10/19/12, 10:19 pm:

“ ‘Also, there would seem to be an issue of coercion when a charter school employee gets such a request from a principal for what amounts to a political endorsement.
Wouldn’t the employees of the schools feel pressured to comply since it would be obvious if they didn’t as their names would be missing from the pro amendment ad?’
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I wish to connect some dots for those that may not be aware. Principals obliged to the Georgia Charter School Association that supports the Constitutional Amendment appear to be practicing coercion toward their teaching staff in their charter schools to support this amendment. Likewise, managers of a Koch Industries firm here in Georgia – Georgia-Pacific – also appear to be practicing coercion with their workers to get them to support Gov. Romney for President. (See link below.)

The sponsors of the original HR 1162 which became the Consitutional Amendment, Republican state Representatives Jan Jones and Edward Lindsey, are members of ALEC. The Koch Brothers are conservative Republicans who support ALEC financially.

On the front page of the AJC today (paper edition) was an article entitled, “Should your boss sway your vote?” and online that article was entitled, “Koch election mailing to employees sparks controversy.”

Below are the beginning lines of this article:
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‘Earlier this month, the corporate parent of Atlanta-based Georgia-Pacific sent its 50,000 employees election-related material that included a list of political candidates supported by the company.

The mailing by Koch Industries drew national attention, raising the question of whether employers should bring politics into the workplace, and to what degree. . .

The Koch Industries mailing also contained a letter from company President Dave Robertson and opinion pieces written by top executives David and Charles Koch, who are brothers and prominent backers of conservative causes. David Koch’s commentary states his support for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.’
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Those who initiated and/or practiced coercion in the workplace in these two instances appear to be Republicans supportive of a conservative ideology espoused by the Koch Brothers regarding free markets. Hmmm. That should make you think. Any time you have an autocratic setting in which power at the top dominates, you will get coercion of employees because workers are not seen as equal to management and are, therefore, not respected as much as those in superior positions.

If you do not see that that autocratic ideology has the potential to undercut the very foundational tenet on which America was based – that “all are created equal” – then you are in denial, in my opinion. Just another reason to vote NO to the Constitutional Amendment in NOvember, which appears to me to be more political than educational.

Btw, perhaps Dr. John Barge made his decision regarding not supporting the Constitutional Amendment based purely on educational considerations, not on political ones, so his particular political persuasion was irrelevant to his decision. If that were the case – and I believe that it was – then Dr. Barge is a true educator, not a politician obliged to others. Someone of standing should nominate Dr. Barge for a Kennedy Center ‘Profile in Courage Award.’ He well deserves that honor, in my opinion.”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/koch-election-mailing-to-employees-sparks-controve/nSg9y/

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I put this link on the other thread but what Nancy is saying about the limited authority of the schoolboard is precisely what the representative of the Georgia School Board Association said at a Georgia Partnership for Excellence in Education presentation this summer. It was for prospective legislature and school board candidates and people like me who collect info on what is really going on in education.

http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/who-is-really-in-charge-the-school-board-the-super-the-accreditors-or-unesco/

Linda Schultz, the President of the Fulton School Board, was also a speaker and talked about “must defer to the Super” over and over again. Which given my personal experience with Avossa and knowledge of what went on in Charlotte-Meck made me fear for Fulton’s schoolchildren and taxpayers.

The levelling the playing field element of public schooling in the name of John Dewey’s democratic purpose and Quality Learning and the actual meaning of the term “excellence” in education. It’s no secret that the documents I have read make it crystal clear that education is being used to mount a stealth political coup, a fait accompli, in the US and all over the West. This is what I do and I hear from people all over the world who know something is wrong and have heard there is someone in Georgia in the US who has figured it out.

We need an out of some kind. Otherwise we are looking at a P-20 gulag of expensive psychological manipulation in Georgia in the name of education. Expensive expectations without marketable knowledge or skills except in a state directed economy. Where there is no prosperity unless you are politically connected.

And I have no use for politicians of either party pushing that vision of limitation.

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I joke about Attentive Parent’s Glossary of Terms but this one explains what Quality Learning really means and what John Dewey had in mind. And no one ever disputes that Dewey’s vision for education is incompatible with any knd of free market capitalism.

http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/why-quality-learning-may-be-the-last-thing-you-want-for-your-child/ . When administrators and accreditors are pushing policies and practices that the original creators say were created to change the American politically, socially, and economically, they simply are not entitled to deference as the Professionals.

Not given those ends. Not in the Least.

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gravy train…..hummmm

wonder if we can afford to eat it, since most of us are on wages which let us buy dog food on a good month.

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I’ve got a question for Nancy:

since most parents can’t be bothered to attend conferences, show up to PTA meetings, and God forbid ever offer to volunteer at their local school

-all choices they make, BTW-

why should anyone take the “parent choice” matter seriously? parents are making choices all the time – bad ones

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“School system administrations choose who works in the system and what they do. We often hear that the board and administration are a “governance team”. Sadly, “the team” is dominated by board members with “Stockholm Syndrome” or they are accomplices in the abduction of local control.”

the Soviets tried group control over management decisions. they imploded due to graft and inefficency.

funny how suddenly there is outrage over the level of power some supers flex. when we make issue of it we’re called whiners, and worse.

oh, the selective outrage.

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“All of this power comes with a hefty contract that insulates superintendents and gives them a golden parachute at taxpayer’s expense even if their tenure is marked by failure. Make no mistake about it. Local control is superintendent control.”

gee, imagine. this is the same issue WE have continually brought up for years. Beverly Hall ring a bell? but the parents who selected these people were dead silent, or worse blocked out attempts to bring out the light of day.

now local control is a bad thing? Nancy, honey boo boo – make up your mind.

or is the real problem local control is in somebody else’s hands than yours?

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“The “local control” that is hailed by the current purveyors of the fine educational products in Georgia, is “educrat control”. They push the buttons and pull the levers and try to make you believe that “stakeholders” have a say in it all.

Nancy, honey boo boo…………..it’s called the ballot box. if you don’t like the way your fellow citizens vote, that’s called life. I hated it when Obama was elected, but life happens. the neat thing about our system is if you give enough of a damn you can work for redress in the next election.

again, it appears your issue is you don’t like the fact you’re not in control. which is odd since you’re on the DCSS board and the system you are a part of is a flaming hot mess.

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So, what she’s saying is that if you’re pro choice, you’ll vote yes?

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“the educrats have failed you and your children; all the while collecting fat paychecks and doling out six-figure jobs and lucrative contracts to more educrats.”

Nancy, honey boo boo….are you really gonna go there? really? considering you’re on the DeKalb board?

I’m curious: where have you been while teachers have been raising these issues for years? I may have missed it, but I don’t recall you leading the pack for making our voices heard.

and while there are too many six figure types in the system, how many of us proportionally make that kind of money? and why haven’t the parents in these districts been crowding the halls of the board meetings, the gold dome, ect pushing these concerns?

again, this takes work. ain’t no magic bullet for lazy parents.

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So disgusted by the ridiculous comments from those that have never stepped a foot inside a public school and criticize the success of those that DEDICATE their lives to its operation and betterment of its students! The losers, if this amendment passes, is the state of GA!. Eventually, this “Charter School ” movement will end up before the Supreme Court. Charter Schools are just a clever way to disguise “modern day” segregation.

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“Communities deserve more input into how their schoolhouses are run. Charter schools are innovation incubators and are governed by a volunteer group of parents, teachers and community members. That’s local control. They get to choose the companies that provide services to their school. If they do a bad job, they will lose their charter and parents will leave their school for a better product. If they are responsible and create a valuable product for their community they will thrive and our children will get the education they deserve.”

Nancy, honey boo boo child, did you just fall off the turnip truck? what on earth makes you think for one second the sudden creation of a charter school will make people act any different than they already are in the dysfunctional system you’re a part of?

back room deals will still be made. haves and have nots will still be created. vendors will still get preference based on their connections.

if you’re really lucky, you might -again, might- have parent utopian involvement for a year or so. they they’re gonna go back to watching X factor and worrying if the Dawgs can land the prospect in Kids R Kids daycare.

in short, everything you do now with DCSS will just find a new home.

again, I suspect you have reason to feel you will be on the inside track, instead of the outside.

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There is evidence that Nancy Jester is right about local control when she says school councils have no real say over choosing a principal. The school council at CW Hill Elementary rated Yolanda Brown as the lowest of the 3 finalists when the former principal retired. The superintendent overrode the decision and violated school council law by not giving a reason to the school council as to why the decision to override was made.

While you can’t be sure what would have happened if the school council recommendation for principal had been followed, it is known that under Yolanda Brown’s leadership, the school ended up on the Severe Concerns list during the cheating scandal.

If anybody is wondering if this was a case of APS racism, like NAHS has been accused of, it was a majority African-American school council that rated two white candidates over the African-American Yolanda Brown, only to have that recommendation overridden by the superintendent.

It may not be a good enough reason to pass the amendment, but Nancy Jester is right on this point.

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The opposition floods the blogs with anti-charter rants!! Fear of change is a terrible thing! Fear of competition and loss of funds and power are the only things that fuel the opposition
Hopefully more parents are fed up with the educational status quo in Ga, and will Vote YES for the amendment!! At least it’s a step in the right direction for the children of Georgia!! The courage of people like Nancy Jester gives us parents hope of a brighter day for the education of the children of GA.

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@FairLady “The opposition floods the blogs with anti-charter rants!!”

No one here has offered an “anti-charter rant”. No one has said that they are totally against charters. And you seem to be the only one using excessive explanation points.
So, who is “ranting” again?

Folks are against the “charter amendment” that would put control of establishing charters into the hands of a FEW appointed members of the state government and rewrite our constitution.

I will repeat what I said before: “Charters can be, and have been, established in GA already. We do not need a constitutional amendment to establish charters. ”

If this ONE important point has escaped your notice, maybe you should educate yourself on this issue in more depth.

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Sorry Nancy, I already voted “NO”.

Parents have plenty of choices right now. As it is, schools and administrators are often held hostage to the irrational demands of parents think the schools and the system should accomodate their little darling and no one else. The last thing parents should have a say in is who the principal of the school is. Unless the guy or gal has a criminal record or a clear record of incompetence, they need not be involved. A lot of the parents I meet are batsh(i)t crazy, I wouldn’t want any of them having more control than they already have.

The current school system is adequate if not equal. Could it be improved? Oh yes. Absolutely yes. Do we need to amend the constitution to do so? NO.

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bootney farnsworth 10:40 am
I’ve got a question for Nancy:
since most parents can’t be bothered to attend conferences, show up to PTA meetings, and God forbid ever offer to volunteer at their local school-all choices they make, BTW-
why should anyone take the “parent choice” matter seriously? parents are making choices all the time – bad ones”
Let me explain this one, group that does do most of the volunteer work and go to PTA meetings are tired of carrying the load for those that do not. The people you speak of, the parents that use schools as baby sitters are not the group pushing for change. Many schools have failed for years and can’t blame it on money.

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What are schools like Sarah Smith Elementary doing right? Why can’t Sarah Smith be used as an example for elementary schools in Dekalb County?

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@FairLady “Many of us parents do not have the skills needed or time available to be there in PTA or provide needed support. ”

I think you just revealed more than you intended. Too many claim they do not have the “time” to invest in their children’s education. They had the children, but say they are too overburdened to invest time and energy in them. And somehow, this is the schools’ fault?

My parents raised me in a city with a generally dismal public school system. So they moved from one small apartment to another across zip codes to insure I was able to attend the best public schools available. Yes, THEY made the effort to support my education, at a cost to themselves and their lifestyles. We lived on a pretty plain diet of things like beans, rice, and powdered milk for a few years so my younger sister could attend a private school. They were strongly involved in the PTA and volunteered in the schools, yet they both worked full time jobs! In short, they put their money, time, and efforts into their children, and did all they could to support us.

I hate to break it to you, but many charters require parent participation above and beyond what public schools require…so if you don’t have the skills or time to support a public school, you won’t be welcome in many charter schools.

But that is understood, isn’t it? What is NOT being said is that many rather hope “those” kinds of parents and children get “left behind” in the increasingly struggling public schools – because they aren’t really welcome in many charters anyway. Very few charters being established by “for profit” companies are there to support low SES students. The ones that are, are going a good job for the most part. However, they are also ones that were able to open WITHOUT this charter amendment. Interesting.

I suspect you have plenty of “time and skills” to support your children. You are obviously well spoken, well educated, own a computer, and have the time to post on this blog frequently. So forgive my skepticism, but I do not believe your children are truly “stuck” in some failing school.

Yet, you are pushing to open a door that will funnel taxpayer money towards corporate run/politically appointed schools (two groups which seem to favor profit and power OVER the social contract) which you HOPE will support educating your child for you…maybe. I am not sure this is your real reason for support of this amendment, as you keep sidestepping the actual concerns others have raised over this amendment. You admit you aren’t even sure if more charters will help. You just HOPE they will and are willing to squander taxpayer money to find out. Heck, maybe the state should just take children away from parents from birth, and raise them. I suspect that would help in a lot of cases, so should we go that route, because it might help?

Parent support for public schools does not have to mean being in the classroom day after day, or buying the school wrapping paper or t-shirts, or attending all the PTA meetings. If more parents would just be willing to put in a small amount of time to help support their child’s education by making sure they read nightly, do their homework, get to school on time, are well rested and well fed, are respectful in class and value education, our schools would not be “failing” so many.

Again, why not look to what is working in those public school districts that ARE successful? Why is no one pushing for this? Could it be because there is no real profit in it?

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Maybe booty works for one of those charter school managment companies.

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And, CatLady, Nancy did NOT support this superintendent hire. And she’s one of the few on the School Board who has questioned this county’s mismanged funds over and over again – to no avail.

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While I disagree with Nancy on the Charter Amendment, I don’t question her committment to the students of DCSD.

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I just got home from Minneapolis. I can’t wait to read my autographed copy of Finnish Lessonn.. Pasi Sahlberg was an amazing speaker who would argue vehemently against this amendment because it is bad for Georgia and bad for Georgia’s children.

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How ’bout we re-engineer our existing antiquated public education system instead of creating a redundant one? This proposed amendment smells like backroom political favor-trading and has arrows pointing to fat private bank accounts at taxpayers’ expense. No thanks.

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Here’s the problem… If I were in Gwinnett, I would not worry if a child was at Annistown, White Oak, Lawrenceville, Meadowcreek, or Dacula Elementaries…. I know that my child would have all the same opportunities at any of those schools. Can I say the same in comparing, say Vanderlyn, Henderson Mill, Livsey, Cedar Grove, Rainbow, or Rock Chapel Elementaries? I don’t know. The answer isn’t, however, a charter. It is making sure that no matter what Georgia (and I am not saying DeKalb) public school a child attends, that child has the same opportunity to succeed wherever he or she may be. Equity is the key. Perhaps we need to reexamine the fact that our property taxes are the largest portion of school funding. We create haves and have nots by that very simple fact. Take that out of the equation and suddenly we can look at a whole new prospect for education. Then lets look at the 800lb gorilla of child poverty. When nearly 1 in 4 American children are impoverished, we have a greater problem than a school. Finally, let’s focus on the role of the teacher and the student. With the test-based accountability system that we are so focused on, we lose the student. If we continue on this path and say we are going to hold the teacher responsible for student learning, what are we going to hold the students themselves responsible for?

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Thank you, Ms. Jester, for your courage. She is 100% right. Do what’s right for Georgia, and support this amendment!

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Dear Eddie Hall,

“Georgia law MANDATES all employees be approved by the BOE.”

Yes. That’s the problem. It’s called micromanaging. If you go to work for General Motors as a worker, you do not want to Board of the company looking at you. It is just creepy, too creepy. It skips the middle manager caste and makes the tiny amount of people at the top be looking down their nose at who does the work. It is an inappropriate system of management, the very source of corruption. On what basis does this “Board” approve individual hires as teachers.” Those with nepotism last names of x/y/z and on what basic does the board obstruct hires? Rumor, innuendo, a phone call of something somebody said? It is just as creepy as can be. I’m sure you’ve heard the term “creeper” – a person who hangs around and sweet talks, sort of like mild stalking. Now, I am not saying anything about any person but I am just telling you that from the perspective of a worker that has worked about 30 jobs, this “board” micromanagement routine of supervising the hire and signing off on it from janitors to the people who mow the lawns on up to teachers is just very creepy. These “boards of education” do not get it. It is just incredible to me. The inappropriateness of it should recognizable to anybody at first glance.

But I’ll be honest with you, here on the plantation system in Georgia, people aren’t real quick on the uptake.

Other topics of note: The rest of the first world has health care for everybody and it is done on a local level. It means you get medical care and leave without debt and with your pocketbook and bank account in tact. Apparently nobody can comprehend that concept either, although it is the standard in the 1st world outside the USA.

Hey Eddie, turn off the TV and go read the OECD reports on education and health care. Take care, BRO.

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I guess I was right, some Georgians want socialism as evidenced by Private citizen…

“Other topics of note: The rest of the first world has health care for everybody and it is done on a local level. It means you get medical care and leave without debt and with your pocketbook and bank account in tact. Apparently nobody can comprehend that concept either, although it is the standard in the 1st world outside the USA.”

You do realize that the people (in other 1st world countries) pay a high tax and most everybody would prefer to come to the United States for any treatment.

In case some of you forgot or where never taught…nothing is free. You pay for everything directly or indirectly. This is also true in other 1st world countries.

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“I guess I was right, some Georgians want socialism as evidenced by Private citizen…”

I just don’t want to get ripped off by the doctor at the place where the 25 year old doctor tells you to get xrays of this and that before they even talk to you. (cha-ching! $1000. right there!). And I don’t want to die in bankruptcy and sign my house over to a hospital, as is common where I live for people who get old and infirmed,

Let me tell you a story. American doctor goes on ski vacation to Switzerland and his wife has an appendicitis while they’re there, requires surgery. Doctor swaggers down to the main desk and gets out his checkbook and want to know how to make out the check and the desk person just sort of looks at him and says, “There’s no charge. We take care of that here.” NOW, I have taken a person to the doctor in Switzerland and can attest that this system is true.

You have bought the bologna about “socialized” is some how the enemy of free market and capitalism and private wealth and you are so very very mistaken. The best thing to happen to Atlanta is Porsche setting up headquarters in the old Ford Taurus plant just north of the airport. It seems like the “socialists” have to come to you and spend money. “Socialism” is a small part of the economy is companies that use it and I could use the proper economic terms for them but you have already demonstrated a lack of respect and shown yourself, at least for the present to be so DUMB (I am trying to get your attention) as to ignore the social care system from the land of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Cartier, Nokia, Pablo Picasso, VOLVO, SAAB, and anything else I can think of to get your attention. Basically every 1st world country except the USA has a health care system. You know how the highway system works? You can get on it and use it? That’s how healthcare is done in other countries.

Now if the USA is so dishonest and dysfunctional that it can only provide for the rich, I think that is an entirely different question.

Let me add that if you are in one of these “socialist” countries where they have all of that high dollar capitalist business and income, you are welcome to buy additional private insurance and go to fancy hospital, but the point is the workers and their familes are covered and it does not cost you $2500. if you have plantar’s wart on your foot or your kid breaks their arm playing soccer.

If you actually care about improving education, get some health care system and start caring about your kids and families. I’m going to tell you the difference between you and me. I’ve had a whooooole bunch of students without eyeglasses. And you can differentiate instruction as much as much as you like, but it doesn’t stop the headaches or make them see any better.

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Bootney, most of the time I agree with you, but you are way off in blaming parent involvement. No matter how many times I volunteer at school, I can’t do a da** thing about 4 weeks of standardized testing, teacher paycuts, and, really, too many other stupid administrative decisions to type. The truly baffling part of the state of public education in DeKalb is that we can have a school with very involved parents that still can’t do its job because of horrible administrative decisions. Parents have NO influence in DeKalb over administration. The schools that can afford to backdoor enough extra staff to make a difference via their foundation are really the only ones able to buck the pending doom.

I am most disturbed at your attack on Nancy Jester accusing her of being part of the administrative machinery ruining our schools. If you had ANY clue of her voting record, you would see she is the one consistent voice and vote in support of our teachers and kids. THE ONLY ONE. She can’t remove the super by herself. Do you understand the concept of being outvoted at all? Whether you agree with her on charter schools or not, I don’t care, but don’t you dare try to pin her as part of the problem. She sits on our board as the lone sane voice speaking out against the waste, irresponsibility, and corruption. Get it right before you spout off.

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“In case some of you forgot or where never taught…nothing is free. You pay for everything directly or indirectly. This is also true in other 1st world countries.”

I know a doctor in the U. S. who made a joke, said you pay all these taxes and don’t get anything for them. “Just keeping paying,..” he said and smiled. The joke being, keep paying and oh yes, you’ll get something, just not yet. Just keep paying…

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Dunwoody and Dunwoody Mom: Then I apologize. Our system (BOE) has been so cowed by SACS that they believe they must vote 100% for whatever lamebrained idea is brought forward by their superintendent. No disention, no opposition. Figured it was true everywhere. (Maybe that is why sACS is looking at Dekalb?)

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“Charter schools are innovation incubators and are governed by a volunteer group of parents, teachers and community members.”

Sounds great and that’s how it is suppose to be. However in this legislation there is no requirement for a balanced governance board of parents, teachers, and community members. In HB797 lines 205-235 lay out the requirements of the governing boards. Nowhere, are “parents” included in the process. I know that this makes me question whose “voice” will be heard in charter schools. Lines 36-39 actually make this much clearer:” ‘Governing board’ means the governing board of the nonprofit organization which is the charter petitioner for a state charter school and which is the same as the governing board of the state charter school which is involved in school-level governance of the state charter school.” So the nonprofit organization could be anyone who sees an entrepreneurial opportunity. Again, how is this involving the parents? “Community” is not defined in this legislation. This can be just one person or one company.

If legislators honestly wanted higher parent involvement, this legislation would have been written to REQUIRE and PROTECT parent representation at the governing board table in each charter school.

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@FairLady: I sure hope you will be able to get your child into a charter school in certain districts. I am surmising there will be no admissions based on a lottery. This amendment is a screened door. It keeps out what one does not want to come in. I usually agree with Ms. Jester and I never agree with what the BOE chairman says, but as they say politics (and this is political) does make strange bedfellows. Please vote no. BTW, any board members that are not satisfied with administrators or know of any undue influence in hiring practices should report it to SACS.

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Bootney Farnsworth, the PTA has zero power to do anything at the school. PTAs do fundraising. No one has a say on what goes on at the school.
Also parent teacher conferences are a system where the teacher bosses the parents around. there is no request for input from the parents. Input from parents is never welcome in APS schools.
Teachers complain they have no power in the school to even teach in their classroom the way they feel best so how do you think parents have power?
In APS, the blacks have all the power and they hire black boards and supers. Quality is not an issue to locl APS boards. Color is the only concern.
You are mistaken if you think parents have any power in APS schools. We have none.
That’s why my children now go to private schools.
I am robbed daily of all my tax money and the schools in APS are pathetic.

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I found Jester’s comments to be incredibly cynical. But I guess that she’s got a check coming her way now. Not that I’m cynical.

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VOTENO!! posted, “Charter Schools are just a clever way to disguise ‘modern day’ segregation.”

My state-chartered school serves 70% low-income students and 61% minorities in 160 cities and towns across the state. Both of those percentages exceed the statewide average for Georgia public schools. Where’s the segregation?

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LD posted, “Charter petitions are essentially small business plans being submitted to a lender for a loan.”

This could be the most astute & accurate observation on the nature of charter schools that I have ever seen on this blog.

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@mojo, Dunwoody Mom, et al….

Did Ms. Jester approve any of the budgets over the last two years that were so above and beyond what was available to be spent by DeKalb County?

And, before you answer that she was, but she was given incorrect information, think long and hard about why it is okay for that excuse to apply to her but to absolutely no one else….

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@ the deal,

volunteering is only part of the fix.

you (not you necessarily, you as in citzens) gotta vote in better people, you gotta hold your legislators accountable, you gotta put in long hours to get the results you want.

much as you want it, there is no magic bullet. every aspect of this society functions EXACTLY the way the citzens want it to. you make your choices known by your actions – or inactions.

to think that suddenly creating charter schools willy nilly will change things overnight, or at all, without a change in the attitude of the parents is somewhere between naive and stupidity.

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@ rascal,

consider these points:

-where is the actual competition gonna be, which is not already here via home/charter/private/church schools already in existence?

-the state wishes to create another huge agency to run this mess, with very little (intentionally?) public thought as to how it will run, what it will do, and who it ultimately will answer to. what has the gov’t of the state of Georgia done to give you confidence this will be any different than Sonny’s Fish Camp?

-where is the money going to come from?

-poor lower income groups don’t want the gov’t educating their kids, but have no problem letting the gov’t pay most of the rest of there expenses? this isn’t logical.

-if you have any studies at all which show stay at home moms are lining up to get involved in charters, please provide them. experience has shown us otherwise.

-poverty is primarly a mental disease, created by the choices we make – or choose not to make. to think that suddenly add in a magical new choice will make these kids and their families make better choices is just not realistic.

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@Rascal
“Government run schools are failing Georgians and have for the past 50 years.”

Are they really? Do you have PROOF of that, or is it just some talking point you have heard repeatedly? SOME schools are failing, but many are not…and the question becomes, WHY are some schools failing? Could it be because a large segment of the population no longer values education? Could it be because the general public continually tears down education and refused to put any more money or effort into helping it succeed? Could it be because the state is continually cutting funding from public schools? Could it be because the profession of teaching is becoming so undervalued that intelligent, energetic young people are no longer entering the field and veterans are leaving in droves?

So you intend to take those SAME students, and hire teachers from the SAME pool of educators, and suddenly, but magic, you will have total success? TRUTH IS, many charter schools do NOT perform any better, and often perform worse, than traditional public schools. THOSE are FACTS. You might want to investigate!

“What is so scary about competition? You love competition when it comes to your choices in every part of your life but you suddenly hate it when it comes to educating your children? ”

Because I have a CHOICE about spending my money at private businesses or not. I will not have a CHOICE about where my tax dollars are going, and personally, I do not want to be funding schools that teach the earth is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur!

“You don’t personally have to choose the charter schools in your areas, but why should you prevent another family from making a choice to educate their children as they choose?”

No one is going to CHOOSE to have a charter school in their area. Corporations will CHOOSE whether a charter is available in your area, whether you want it or not, and if you area is NOT PROFITABLE, you won’t see one. Another family can CHOOSE to educate their child to believe the earth is flat, BUT NOT ON MY DIME!

“Maybe a stay-at-home mom can be involved, but why pay a school system $9,000+ a year to educate your child and then turn around and have to go run the school in your off hours?”

My property taxes are nowhere near $9,000+ a year… are yours, really?

“Why not pay $7,500 a year at the charter school of your choosing and have professionals run it for you.”

So businessmen, with NO background in education, are suddenly “professionals” in education? You do know charters do not need to hire certified teachers; they can hire cheap labor from foreign countries. They can underpay their teachers, refuse to offer benefits and siphon most of the money into management who will pocket huge profits while students suffer. Again, INVESTIGATE the for profit charter movement in other states! Too many for profit charters are a scam!

“If they fail you, take your kids out and go to another school around the corner and spend your $7,500 at that school instead.”

How many times a year do you think you get to spend that $7,500?

“All schools will improve with more school choice because the monopolized education system in Georgia cannot function when parents have a real choice. “

No, they won’t. You will still have the same students needing the same services. They are not going away. I won’t teach any better because there is a new charter down the road. I already do my best every day. The low performers, special needs students, discipline problems and disengaged will still be with us… they are not all magically going to improve, though they may get shut out of the charter schools, which I suspect would suit you just fine – so you can drop the, “I care so much about the poor underprivileged kids” act.

“Stop pretending that there is an evil monolithic monster behind the school choice movement. It is primarily made up of parents that don’t want government educating their children.”

LOL! Oh yes, it is those “parents” from out of state who are pouring millions into the efforts to get this amendment passed! Right!

“Yes, the same government that fails in almost every service it provides.”

So, you don’t like your roads, fire department, police service, 911 service, military, etc.? Oddly enough, when government services stop doing a thorough job, it is usually because some corporate interest has started throwing a wrench in the works…like curtailing the powers of the EPA and the FDA. I suspect if we suddenly privatized all the government services and you had to start paying full price via private enterprise, you would have a fit.

“I would love nothing more than to have entrepreneurs from around the country working hard to earn my family’s education dollars and improving the choices I have in the process.”

Let’s see how much you “love” it when this amendment passes, and it five years your taxes have doubled, the schools are teaching Scientology, the teachers at your precious charter school can’t speak English and came in on a HB1 in order to work for a charter owned by family members who are foreign businessmen, and the CEO of your failed charter closes the doors in the middle of the year and takes off with a couple million in profit. Think I exaggerate? Try actually investigating the for profit charter movement, and what it is doing in other states.

“What is so wrong with someone making money doing a great job educating children?”

Because they are making MONEY from my tax dollars and yours! How can people keep missing that! These are not the same as textbook companies, or janitorial companies working for a public school. Too many of them really have no interest in anything beyond profit. And why do you assume they will do a “great job”. Most for profit charters are not doing a “great job”. Very few are doing a “great job.” Most are doing about as well or worse than traditional schools – how can people keep ignoring the FACTS and RESEARCH about actual charter performance!

“How many of you work for a company that provides a service for profit and are proud of the work you do? How is that any different from an education company providing that service for your family?”

Because most companies are not paid by TAX DOLLARS!

“Quit scaring Georgians with all of the phony charges.”

Quit ignoring all the FACTS!

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“…local control”???!!!! So according to an elected official who has the authority to tax the citizens who voted for her, a commission – selected by legislators NOT RESPONSIBLE TO Dekalb voters, can take money away from Dekalb voters and give that money to other counties, and that’s “local control.?” Which bunch of you idiots elected her?

I don’t remember the rural legislator’s name, but he said he was voting against taking money from the rural communities because of a spat between metro county’s school boards and their voters. I don’t know if you metro voters know this (we rural people do!!) , but you CAN vote those worthless turkeys out of office. Don’t rob money from my school system because of your lack of citizenship.

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@Bootney,we do agree! There is no magic bullet. In my world, that means that the tear down of the administrative Mafia in DeKalb is going to have to happen one new idea at a time. There is nothin, nothing, nothing I can do within DeKalb to fix this. I cannot vote for the 5 districts that keep voting in idiots, and those districts most certainly do not want me telling them who to vote for. I am stuck and outvoted in a county and system where the majority apparently thinks things are okay because Gene Walker says they are. What, you say? Vote out Gene? Can’t do it because I don’t live in his district. Trying to fix DeKalb with local votes is as futile as thinking a vote for Obama matters in GA.

The only way to change DeKalb is to tear it apart from multiple angles until it is in tiny pieces and put it back together in a logical way. This vote is not about charter schools. It is about taking some control WITH MY VOTE that cannot be taken away with my vote locally.

I don’t see why people are freaking out so much about the POSSIBILITY of funds going to some for-profit educational company when, right now, it is DEFINITELY going to fund Queen Cheryl’s driver and car, New Birth, raises for the top 5, Success For All, lazy security officers, hundreds of pencil pushing testing-related positions, mood music in the granite-countered bathrooms at the palace, weapons checkers at meetings, 2 board secretaries, legal fees for people who stole from us, legal fees to defend DCSD from teachers who are suing to get what they deserve, paying Queen Cheryl to waste everyone’s time with surveys and round tables where she proceeds to blatantly ignore us. Honestly, could there be more of a train wreck than there is now? The answer is no. Vote YES to tear this mafia apart piece by piece.

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Old Physics Teacher, there is already in place an example of where the Atlanta metro area vacuumed up funds intended for the entire state. Someone wrote a law, result of an abuse case or something, that a Georgia county had certain requirements to meet regarding child welfare services, having enough field workers to meet the demand etc. reports of abused children etc. Sounds good. So they just took the state money and used it to meet this law / mandate for one or two metro Atlanta counties.

I can tell you that outside of Atlanta, there are a lot of areas in Georgia where kids are receiving very little support and much of the state has not heard of and does not use “Peach Care” for children. They may have upped the paperwork and bureaucratic requirements for Peach Care to where a lot of parents just don’t fool with it, an overly demanding carrot and stick routine, “We’ll give you this if you do this (25 forms required)…”

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Much of the dysfunction can be seen on citizen comments in this thread.

@Rascal Government run schools are failing Georgians and have for the past 50 years.

Actually Rascal, the people of Georgia are failing the children and families because there is no system of healthcare. That means students do not get their needs met and families and teachers suffer debt whenever they need to meet their basic needs. Public school / charter school issue is not going to change these determinative conditions.

@bootney volunteering is only part of the fix

Volunteering has nothing to do with anything and is no fix for anything. It’s propaganda and smoke screen to literally occupy people and keep them redirected. Bricklayers and plumbers do not need volunteers or use volunteer helpers or labor. It would slow them down and in some cases make their work dangerous. Why do you insist on using teachers as a pin-board for so much intrusion and then claim you are achieving something or doing them a favor? You’re not. Volunteering means that in addition to teaching children, teachers have additional work directing and babysitting parents. It is a nice idea that smart parents work as helpers and tutors, it is just that is real life most parents I have seen that spend any time in the school house and crazy and toxic. But I guess that is because they are there for some cause or complaint. If a parent is able enough to work as a classroom tutor, they usually have a career somewhere away from the schoolhouse.

bootney -poverty is primarily a mental disease, created by the choices we make –

No, Bootney, poverty is not a mental disease when you make $10./hour and go to the doctor for two hours and leave with a $1500. bill and having received no actual treatment. The bill then goes in collections, the person’s credit is trashed, and then they can not buy a car without being exploited on the payment rate, and when the home down the street comes up for sale for $50,000. they are prohibited from getting a home loan because their credit is trashed from the medical bill.

Bootney, you really talk like a nasty bigot and I think this is the problem in Georgia, the functioning persons ignore the facts of social care being the bridge to prosperity and healthy functioning informed citizenry. I have a good friend who is stricken with this bigotry business. As far as he is concerned, people can die on their front porch as long as he makes a few more percentage points interest on his investment CD’s. It’s interesting because he works in government his whole life and then wants to complain about taxes as if he is a private business owner. If the tax rate is 1.5% he’ll cry about it all day long that it should be 1%. That is where his brain stops working. Otherwise, he is uninformed and uninterested in the well being of others. The only thing I can figure is that hell has a special seat for him.

Why you should listen to me: because I know how to use html.

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@d
Property taxes are a concern, but you misunderstand the impact.
All those Gwinnett schools you are talking about get $140 million a year from other counties. All those Dekalb schools pay $100 million to other counties. Dekalb probably would do somewhat better and Gwinnet somewhat worse if Dekalb weren’t subsidizing Gwinnet to that extent.

As for the opportunities in Dekalb, you again miss the point. Schools in S. Dekalb (don’t know about Rainbow or Rock Chapel in particular) generally get far more $ than Vanderlyn or Henderson Mill. The equity doesn’t have to do with $. The poorer schools and poorest performing schools get the most money. In Dekalb, among non-magnets, there is almost a perfect inverse correlation between $/student and achievement. So “equity” doesn’t have to do with $ or property taxes within school districts. That striving for “equity” ends up being an effort to destroy anything good.

I have mixed feelings about the charter amendment, but the biggest beneficiaries are likely to be the children of concerned parents in the lowest performing schools. The higher income people who want out of public school move to another district or go to public schools.

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Charters currently cannot appeal to state
In 2011 the Ga Supreme Court majority report said the 1877 Constitution of Georgia granted local boards of education the exclusive right to establish and maintain K-12 education. The state cannot therefore establish competing State-created general k-12 schools.

Where are the new state charters
If the state can commission NEW state charters, where are they since the 2011 GA Supreme Court ruling? Barge estimated 7 new charters every year.

Charter School Amendment 1 addresses this

Many counties have NO charters
85% of the state chartered schools operate in counties with NO existing charters.

Charters means more money for local schools
For every student that goes to a charter school, there is more money per student for the local traditional school.

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Georgia and Education
Good question – How does a traditional public school have more money per student for every student that goes to a state chartered school?

Only the state money follows the child. All the local money stays with the district. For every student that goes to a state chartered school, there is more local money per student.

Please refer to Nancy Jester’s It’s Called a Balance Sheet for a more in depth explanation.

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@ private

thank you illustrating my point so clearly.

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@ deal,

if you read thru several of the older blogs, you’ll find most educators are solidly behind you in your disgust with the DCSS mafia. unfortunately that ultimately is an issue for DeKalb voters or the FBI.

as long as DeKalb voters continue to put these clowns back, and don’t pack each and every meeting until they either go away or are brought to heel….nothing will change

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@ living

since you asked, but didn’t have the courage to ask me directly…

yes, if I were spoken to in the tone Jester used in her missive, I would speak to her EXACTLY as I have written here. EXACTLY. while polite to people I don’t know, I reserve civility to those who extend it.

why on earth so many of you seem to feel you can speak so rudely to us, call us the worst kind of things, and somehow think we’re obliged to take it — amazes me.

next time you want to fuss about me, try fussing to me.

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@ citizen

if you’re making $10 an hour in todays world, 99% of you made stupid choices in your personal behavior, your education (or lack thereof), and career judgement.

that’s AT BEST a mental defect, to chose to marginalize yourself. it suicidal if you deliberately picked this path.

and that is a mental disease. the lack or self esteem, effort, or drive to do more than the bare minimum to survive (on someone else’s dime, no less)

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and yes, living, I would say this directly to private citizen if he were in my face and calling me a bigot.

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Georgia and education not compatible,
Unfortunately with all of your rants, I lost concentration on whether or not you support the charter amendment.

Interesting point, because as an educator, I believe my rants to be more significant to quality K12 education in Georgia than is the amendment debate. My official position (?) on the charter amendment is that I think Georgia children would perform better in their schooling if there was a health care system similar to what is the norm outside the United States where you go to get your health care needs met and leave without debt and with your bank account intact. The significant part is the efficiencies available due to standardization of services and economies of scale. Please have a look at the OECD report on health care in various countries. http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpoliciesanddata/oecdhealthdata2012.htm Doing this action is called being informed so that you can operate outside of the media zone that keeps telling you that you’re better than everybody else while simultaneously getting you to vote against your own interests. If you know how to work spreadsheets, you might find this link useful http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpoliciesanddata/oecdhealthdata2012-frequentlyrequesteddata.htm

I previously worked at a county DFCS office

Congratulations on your noble and important work. If you did similar work in an OECD country outside of the United States, you might be a desk clerk at a regional medical center where people went to get treatment, instead of your former work in Georgia, United States, working with highest needs families and requiring them to fill out paper work that the rest of the citizenry does not have to fill out so that they can get a specifically limited portion of treatment. -I’ve heard the Peach Care coverage runs out pretty quick. It is like food stamps for health care, except it is not based on monthly allotment. You use it, you lose it.

Is this because Europe is more easily assessable than the United States?

You give me a chuckle. Did you read the linked article in my post? I think you did not read the linked article. One thing Mitt Romney has correct is that he would like to implement a system where employers have to check a citizenship database before hiring someone and if they hire illegally, they are fined. This is how immigration is controlled in Europe. They do not need a border fence. I know of at least one country where if an employer hires illegally and is caught, the fine is $50,000.

Europe is not an open door. Much of their immigration is based on accommodating people from their former colonies, or with political decision to help or affect certain groups of people, refugee status, etc. If a person decides on their own that they want to move to the EU from outside of the EU and they want to get citizenship, I would say that this is almost impossible and is not permitted. Europe does not want people from the United States moving there and some Europeans are scared of the United States and consider it low in ethics and dangerous due to using military resources to appropriate natural resources from outside the U. S. Don’t you worry, though, the contemporary artists in Europe have not let you down and have made the movie Iron Sky, made in Finland (think: Nokia cell phones). The joke is the movie is about the United States and the movie will not see distribution in U. S. theaters. The movie has a Sarah Palin character as president. FYI, If you want to know what Europe thinks of the United States, I’d start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uimh2EBB1yQ

With their computer skills, the Finns are talented at making home-made movies. This is the previous effort from the same bunch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uakx1DuaztE

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Fun Fact: If you want to watch a YouTube movie on your own time, use the Firefox browser http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/ and add the “YouTube downloader” extension available in the settings menu https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/flash-video-downloader-youtube/ . Once you have downloaded the .flv video file from YouTube, you can view it using VLC media player. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html

I’m still trying to figure out the difference between Fanta Orange and Orange Crush. You want me to do what?

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Georgia and education not compatible Please don’t tell me that you were on a U. S. military base and therefore you “lived in Europe.” Not trying to talk down to you, but it is a half-truth. The point of the Europe banter is that that is where the OECD headquarters is located. To tell you the truth, you did not even care to read the article I initially posted, then you asked me questions about it, and now you are going into “I don’t care” mode. I really don’t know where you came from or where you’ve been but I can tell you that a lot of children in Georgia not heard of Peach Care and are not getting their needs met. You probably do not care that many Georgia school children do not have eyeglasses. You seen prone to take a stand – but for what? I sure can’t tell what you care about. It doesn’t appear to me that you care about anything except representing the team, whatever that means. Maybe if you don’t rep for the team, you’ll be off the team and with the rest of the populace. I’d say that’s a valid concern with the amount of required authority combined with what are basically entitlements for educators. A teacher friend of mine said “We get a pretty good deal (on subsidized health coverage), but I hope the public doesn’t find out because they’re paying for it.” My answer is not that the public should not know, but that that the public needs health care, too, But I might as well be a cow talking to a passing train.

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Hey Georgia and education not compatible, When you lived in Europe for three years, where did you go to the doctor? Or did you just not go to the doctor for three years? Most people have annual check-ups.

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[...] are run, we have to limit the power of school boards. Nancy Jester, a DeKalb school board member, pointed out in her recent column that real local control involves “a volunteer group of parents, teachers and community members” [...]

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