Former college prof and AP teacher: Advanced Placement is “one of the great frauds” in high school today

In short, AP courses are a forced march through a preordained subject, leaving no time for a high-school teacher to take her or his students down some path of mutual interest. The AP classroom is where intellectual curiosity goes to die.

Oh,my goodness….Bitter, much? This, of course, depends on the teacher and their approach teaching the AP curriculum. My child took AP classes and dual enrollment at GPC. The AP classes were much more rigorous than her “real” college course. She was able to gain college credit at UGA based on scores received on the Placement Tests that UGA administred. To me, this is a tribute to her teachers, “regular” and AP.

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If AP courses are a “scourge … where intellectual curiosity goes to die,” aren’t those who are “left out” of them at an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

BTW, anyone who thinks a non-AP HS teacher has time “to take her or his students down some path of mutual interest” has not taught HS since, oh, at least prior to NCLB.

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Parents claiming their children had much harder classes in high school believe this because their children went to schools like Kennesaw. At Georgia Tech, classes were actually hard, so AP classes are laughable in comparison. The thought of getting free credits for doing half of the work is also laughable. At Georgia Tech, professors need to have a doctorate degree in order to teach. In high school, this isn’t the case, so there isn’t an educational equivalent either.

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I took one AP class in high school and ended up dropping it halfway through to go back the honors class instead. I found the AP class to be tedious and boring, focused only on teaching you how to pass the AP exam. The honors class was much more enjoyable and didn’t make me hate the subject. High schools push those AP classes on “gifted” kids because they get money for every head enrolled. I had to threaten to transfer schools in order to get dropped from the one AP class I was enrolled in because my school didn’t want to forfeit the money I was bringing in. It was ridiculous.

The university I went to wound up not accepting most AP credits anyway, so those classes would have been a waste of my time. The college level intro courses were much more enjoyable and better prepared you for the higher level college courses than AP classes. They got students used to the lecturing style of college professors, the exam schedule, and the homework requirements. Plus many of our intro level courses were taught by the same professors as the higher level courses which let you get used to their teaching style and let you know what to expect from them further down the line.

(Plus those intro level college courses are good for boosting GPAs to get into competitive master’s degree programs, which are much more important these days than where you went to undergrad. The firm I work at pretty much tosses all entry-level resumes received without master’s degree designations right into the trash.)

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Maureen,
I quite agree with your perspective and as a former AP psychology teacher was embarrassed by Mr. Tierney’s remarks. He apparently doesn’t understand that AP courses are generally equivalent to college intro classes regardless how he feels about the individual course he taught. AP courses are vetted by college profs and their students taking equivalent courses. Will the AP course in all cases satisfy a college dept. that a person getting a 3 or above on the AP test should be granted academic credit? No, of course not.
There are problems with AP. The program has expanded too far in some regions IMHO which is why the exam score percentage (based on test takers) has declined by 10% in the last twenty years. There are too many unprepared students taking the courses which is why the percentage number of 1’s (lowest possible score) has doubled during that same period.
But the bottom line is that AP is still a darn good program and by far the best measuring stick competitive universities have to differentiate domestic applicants.

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So, anyone know of a college history course where they cover world history from the beginning of mankind up to WW II?
How about calculus? Take AP and learn to maximize your graphing calculator usage. Take calculus at GSU and leave that calculator at home. Which do you think is harder?

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Some classes are already advanced enough without adding AP to the title. I mean what is the difference between AP Calculus and regualar Calculus. Difficult math is difficult math.

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@Maureen,

“college professor[s] complain to me that AP classes are not the equivalent of college courses, which this author also contends. (I hear that complaint most often from Georgia Tech math professors.)”

I have taken math classes at Georgia Tech and also at a couple of other state schools which shall remain nameless. Mathematics classes at Tech are a whole ‘nother ball game from other state schools, so with respect to AP, I suspect that just about any kid who passes an AP calc exam, goes to Tech, and exempts a semester or two of calculus is in for a rude awakening.

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Typical anecdotal “evidence” used to discredit dual enrollment. I’m sure there are also “crip” AP courses that students find out about, too, and as Dr. Tierney points out – most AP courses are not up to par to the entry level college courses.

Trashing all entry college level courses with the above anecdotes to balance a wary eye on high school AP courses is uncalled for.

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At my child’s high school, all kids are encouraged to take an AP class if they’re anywhere near a dedicated student. Yes, they don’t get great grades on the exam. But they’re in a challenging class and many find it was the boost they needed to actually start taking life after high school seriously, as well as finally taking postive stock in their own inherent abilities~

Yes, there’s a huge difference b/w taking classes at the rambling wreck vs pole dancer U (for years on nightly news when they interviewed dancers they were going to KSU). If that isn’t obvious to you and your offspring, well can’t help ya there.

Not sure that skipping out on the monster cattle-call freshman intro classes is automatically bad thing even if you don’t get a financial break. I skipped out on lots of those nasty 500+ people classes. Didn’t save my tuition bill, but i got a better education b/c it freed me up to take lots of sampling classes across many fields. Broadened my horizons, which is a big part of why i went in the first place. However if you need three classes of statistics minimum for your social sciences degree, taking AP Stats in high school then re-taking the intro class is probably a wise thing. It sounds to me like many of these kids are actually suffering from poor/lacking adult guidance in their college course selections.

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Any class at Ga Tech is going to be more difficult than the same high school class because none of Tech’s professors speak English. My freshman literature class was taught by Xiaoli Lim. My freshman sociology class was taught by Myung Atyun. And my sophmore history class was taught by Pya Yoon Hong. And don’t get me started on the math and engineering classes. I once has a class taught by Raktimzel Bhattacharya. So my advice to any high student considering Ga Tech is to learn Chinese and Arabic ASAP.

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My daughter was torn between AP Calculus and AP Stat. She ended up with AP Calculus AB. She was glad she did once she got to the UGA Placement Tests. I’m not sure if they have different Math tests, but she indicated that her test was heavy (at least that was her thoughts) on the Calculus.

My daughter has indicated to me, based on her freshman curriculum and experience at UGA, that she was glad she took AP courses. It really prepared her for the rigor she is facing.

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Core classes in college are a joke, in my opinion they are just a way for a college to get more money out of you. They are high school classes, and I’m not talking AP high school classes, I’m talking regular to advanced high school classes. The only tough core class I took was english/literature, and that is because when I read a book I read what it says, I don’t try to draw up some imaginary meaning because a girl had a pink bow in her hair in the book.

If the AP classes are classes required to get into a major, an intro to engineering, or something such as that I might foresee a problem simply because the teacher may not have enough knowledge in that specific area. However, from what I understand they are your basic core classes.

I took an introductory anatomy class in college with a professor that literally wrote the book, it is the same book used at UGA. He wanted you to know that book word for word, over 70 percent of the class failed. We then took the class either by a different teacher, or at a smaller college across the street and passed. Once we got in our major, everything about anatomy we needed to know was taught to us. I think sometimes you have core teachers that think to much of the class, the purpose of the class is to merely lay a foundation.

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As a new teacher, I was appalled to hear that my physics students (mostly 11th graders) had taken AP Biology as freshmen. I could not believe that they would put 9th graders through such rigorous coursework because few 9th graders are really ready for college-level work. From their scores however, mostly 1s, it is evident that the coursework was not rigorous at all. However, the schools pushes students into these courses to make it look like they are challenging students and offering them the most advanced coursework when they are really setting them up for grade inflation in the classroom (they mostly earn As or Bs) then disappointment when they get AP scores back.
AP courses are valuable to students in that they can challenge students but not at the level that college coursework will challenge them. Honors courses are more appropriate for most students and the most appropriate label for many of these “AP” courses. My school does not even offer honors physics. Students have two choices, general level Physics or AP Physics. So many students would benefit from an honors class. Harder working students from my general level classes as well as students in the AP classes that feel in over their heads would be adequately challenged and put in an environment where they could actually be successful.

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If a student gets a “4″ or a “5″ on the AP English Literature exam, I promise you that they are well beyond an entry level Composition class in college. I can say this from teaching both classes, and being completely objective about it. Word choice, sentence structure, flow and style, plus literary analysis and higher level thinking cannot be faked. The PhD that wrote this article (and yeah, I have one too…and I don’t think I’m special at all for taking 60 more hours and writing a thesis than my “Masters only” collegues) apparently lacks for exposure in this area. It is completely short sighted and just wrong. I challenge him to come to any good AP class and see the quality…or better yet, go be an AP evaluator.

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I challenge anyone to get through the AP World History exam and convince me it won’t stand up against any exam in a history survey course for incoming freshmen..hell, upper level ones for that matter.

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Depends on where you go to school. I am a grad of one of Atlanta’s best private schools. My 10 AP classes were the best academic experiences I have EVER had. They were easily on par with my best courses in college and grad school (at top tier universities on the east coast). Overall, my high school experience was at least as demanding than my college experience, if I exclude organic chemistry from the equation…didn’t take that until college. The teachers at my high school were absolute intellectuals who loved teaching. A few were retired professors, one from GA Tech…

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@ atljan, is that “Atlanta Janitor?” Because that’s what will happen to you with your background if you go work in the Georgia public schools.

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@ “atljan” I think you should get a job with Merck and move to Belgium (their headquarters). Just think, health care coverage for all and 100% school choice where the money follows the student. Pack up your family and take your parents with you. No flying back and forth.

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HallMom writes:
If AP courses are a “scourge … where intellectual curiosity goes to die,” aren’t those who are “left out” of them at an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

Nothing like a little basic logic to expose Tierney’s drivel for what it is.

Despite the rapidly growing enrollments in AP courses, large percentages of minority students are essentially left out of the AP game.

Nice… play the race card. Sorry, but that does not cut it. Its like all of the minority students that went to my H.S. (graduating class of 100). All students had the same opportunity. Don’t blame the high performers for the lack of initiative in other students.

The AP program imposes “substantial opportunity costs” on non-AP students in the form of what a school gives up in order to offer AP courses, which often enjoy smaller class sizes and some of the better teachers.

So what? It’s better to trap ALL students in mediocrity? Using Tierney’s logic, ALL classes that are more advanced than is necessary to graduate High School are an opportunity cost on the students who merely want to graduate High School, and should be eliminated. That means NO college prep paths in High School (after all, they represent an opportunity cost to detriment of students that aren’t going to college!).

Schools are trying to find a way to meet the needs of brighter students. AP is one of those ways.
Are we going to throttle advanced learning for the sake of the students who aren’t able or simply don’t want to perform at a higher level?

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AP stands for Advanced Placement. It was intended to be a more rigorous course to get you ready for a college placement test. It sounds like its original purpose has been distorted. There should be noone below a junior taking an AP course, and even juniors are doubtful. They wouldn’t be taking any placement tests until their senior year.

At my school (in the distant past) there were either AP or honors courses, not both. AP English certainly helped. And it allowed me to take an elective English course in college instead of the introductory one taught by a TA.

And to second what others have said, Kennesaw State is not going to be as tough as Georgia Tech. We referred to our local junior college as 13th grade. I took my history and government courses in JCs over the summer, because I didn’t want the reading load during the regular year when I was taking 15 hours.

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“The Atlantic offers a provocative essay”

The Atlantic is a far left rag. This essay is nothing more than an attack of overachievers who worked hard.

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AP classes allow students to perform better in college. Yes, they are challenging but the point of taking an AP class is to challenge yourself. Taking an AP class isn’t a fraud it is very helpful. My cousin has taken many classes and it has helped her when it comes to writing essays and getting used to the amount of work given daily. This is my first year taking an AP course and I would definitely take another one next year. I want to prepare myself for college and i would recommend it for anyone who wants to get in a good college.

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My AP History class in 1985 was every bit as challenging as any history class I took at UGA, and I was a History major there.

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I am currently enrolled in two AP classes at my high school, AP Language and AP Environmental Science. AP Lang is pretty hard, but APES is the exact opposite of that. I cannot claim that I know anything about college level courses. However, if they are as easy as people seem to say they are, then I am perfectly content with AP classes being difficult. If an AP class is much harder then its college counterpart, and for some reason we must take the class again, it would just be an easy A that would help us to maintain our GPA. I know in Georgia to maintain our HOPE scholarship you must maintain a 3.5, and easy classes can be the best way to go about this.

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While AP classes should not be considered equal to college courses due to the fact that they are offered in a high school setting and are limited by that, they are not academically inferioir. Many AP courses are supior to joint enrollment courses, and are far superior to many non-AP courses offered high schools. They are a much better option for students who want to be challenged academically while still in high school. They also are a very good way to get basic college courses out of the way, or even to get a good introduction to what will be taught in college. Of course, the value of the course will vary from school to school and from teacher to teacher. But in my experience as a student in AP courses is that over all they are much more effective and challenging than the non-AP courses also offered at my school.

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I disagree with the post by the ‘former AP teacher’. I have taken and am currently taking AP courses in high school and I do not think that they are not worth taking. The learning atmosphere that an AP class provides is very different from that of a General level or Accelerated class. Much more time is spent on learning new skills instead of working on meaningless worksheets every single day. I am not in college, but I feel that the AP courses offered at my school should be at the same level as a regular college-level course. One of my previous AP teachers even made his class harder than anything that we would have to have known for the AP Exam. My own mom even looks at work that I have to do for my classes now and comments on how she never had to do anything that hard until her later college years. My point is, AP courses are worth having and taking in high school. We should not do away with them.

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It seems to me that how effective an AP class is depends heavily on both the teacher of that course and the college the student attends. Good AP teachers can definitely prepare students for college, but some college courses cant be matched at any high school. Both essays in this article are based on subjective experiences, which change drastically from person to person.

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Colleges judge whether or not students will get a credit for the AP course based on the score that they received on the AP exam. The exam is the same for everyone that takes that particular course, and is extremely rigorous. To say that college professors don’t believe that students that AP classes do not obtain the required knowledge, they can change that. They can address their college administration, not the high schools! It’s their choice to decide if the student should earn the credit. Secondly, from a high school student’s perspective, it is common knowledge that joint enrollment is the easy choice. At our high school, students will take joint enrollment at places like Georgia Perimeter College, which is a complete joke. I think it’s safe to say that AP classes gain more from the course, unless of course a student takes a joint enrollment class at a higher ranking school like Georgia Tech.

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When any student takes coursework that challenges him/her, that’s an asset, regardless what post high school education comes next

Totally agree.

As far as should a student take AP or not, if so, how many, what subject(s), dual enrollment, yes or no. These are question that should be individually defined for each student. That is where researching colleges comes into play as far as what they require or wish to see in a candidate, etc., We know that right now UGA and Tech both want to see AP classes. My youngest is looking at college in PA, which basically said “meh” as far as AP classes.

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As a student of AP classes, I believe the immediate effect they can have on a student is important to take note of. Students reach a collegiate level with handling responsibilities and organizational skills. Shouldn’t all students yearn to learn at a higher level?

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Is AP really the burial ground for intellectuallly curiosity? Who is it exactly that is disadvangted by such courses: the students or the school? It appears to me that the only interest harmed by the Advanced Placement system points to the schools’ budgets. Students eager in the pursuit of academics know full well the strength of an AP World History or AP Lang. class. If a school can not provide for its cohesive student body, then the fault falls solely on it.

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So college is so challenging I can go skiing for a week and still make an A on the test. Hmmm, kind of makes me think that college is just memorizing and dumping on a test. Is that what makes our kids smart or why we as a nation place so low on the competency charts.

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“Why must anything that you disagree with be “far left?” Do you even know the definition of the term “liberal?” I highly doubt it….”

Can you please site ANY facts that back up your claim? I stated at fact that The Atlantic is a far left rag. It is and you can’t prove me wrong otherwise.

Liberal? Again with the reading comprehension problem. I never said anything about liberals. Do you know what “far left” and “liberal” mean? Obviously not.

Then again, you’re a public school teacher so I wouldn’t expect you to know. Those who can’t do, teach.

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“ability grouping generally depresses student achievement and is harmful to kids” http://teacher.scholastic.com/professional/classmgmt/abilitygroup.htm

“research evidence supports the effectiveness of ability grouping” http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=382

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“In some places, a “92″ would be a miracle and maybe 20% of the class would reach this level. The guy from Harvard / Johns Hopkins knows about these type grading systems.”

I don’t know about Hopkins, but Harvard is notorious for easy grading. Something like 80 percent of students there graduate with honors. (One year it was over 90 percent.)

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My daughter took several AP classes in high school and made 4’s and 5’s on the tests. With those scores, she earned 26 credit hours upon entering college. She just started her 3rd year, but is already classified as a Senior, so she will be graduating early. She has excelled in college, is in the Honors Program and has a 3.9 average. When I talk to my daughter about the impact AP classes have had on her college success, she said that the most important thing she learned through these classes is how to think critically and how to write excellent research papers, skills she has used in every class she has taken in college. She said she also learned time-management skills and how to be proactive when getting her work done because the workload in the AP courses was demanding.

So from my perspective, those AP classes have taught my daughter life-long skills that will help her to be successful long past college.

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@ Phil, the word is “cite” as in “citation,” to refer to.

@behindenemylines, good to be a critic, but then you’re going to have to bring something to the table.

Re: Atlantic Monthy magazine. I recently got a subscription to the Atlantic Monthly, part of a web offer, pick four magazines / complimentary. It used to be a different magazine. When I got the first issue in my mailbox, I looked at the cover and said “ugh oh.”

“They’re Breasts: Get Over It”

“‘No Decent Woman Is Ever Seen on a Bicycle”

“You’ve Heard of Urban Coyotes. Urban Bears Could Be Next
At some level, wouldn’t that be the coolest thing ever?”

“I Share My Body With 20 Personalities”
“You are not here all the time,” the doctor said. “Other people take control of your body.”

“Addicted to the Sky”
____________________________

Thjis magazine used to house social and literary essays. Looks they’ve taken a turn to trying to comfort bhoozie stock-market investment class and mixed it up with sex and some London fish wrapper shock stories. And some critical commentary. Some.

Problem with a populist website, AJC, etc. is that the public could not handle dense essays, lots of small print and miles of words to read. I would not want to be the one picking them.

In the former Atlantic Monthly, putting “Wouldn’t that be the coolest thing ever?”" as a byline would have gotten somebody slain and half the staff walking out. But this is the age when the president sends out email that begins with the word “Hey.” Sign of the times.

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@ Light, congratulations.

@Traci M, may I ask, AP classes at public or private school? Seems like the state is currently determined to mess over the concept of high-performing specialty classes by the notion that they are unjust / harmful. i.e. http://teacher.scholastic.com/professional/classmgmt/abilitygroup.htm It is really pronounced. They’re maligned and displacing the higher level teachers. It is like a clean-out is occurring.

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@ Light, “great way to segment kids”

Go into a lot of admin buildings and say that and there are people who will get real upset about it. Georgia public schools seems to be going through a phase of trying to destroy this sort of thing as enemy to the concept of elevating the kids who are disengaged.

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@ Maureen, my big question is why on earth is a valictorian of any high school going to a second or third tier state school like Kennesaw State?

My Sister’s son was the Valdictorian and class Pres. of his Class 2 years ago, while he did not make it off the waiting list at Harvard or Yale. He did receive a full scholarship with room and board to NYU.

I won’t even let my daughter consider Kennesaw as an absolute backup, last chance school, and she is not the Valdictorian.

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Georgia coach he said one must have a doctorate in order to teach at Georgia Tech. You dumbass.
That might not be completely accurate. But that is what he said. He didn’t say having a doctorate qualifies one to teach.
You dumbass

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@Fled: I could be wrong but I think we were on the faculty together at Northview. If so, ask any of my former A.P. students you may be in touch with about my American history class.

I don’t think I was particurly popular with the administration. LOL

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“Studies show that increasing numbers of the students who take them are marginal at best, resulting in growing failure rates on the exams”

this sentence pretty much debunks his own thesis. The exam at the end of the course is administered by College Board and students who do not master the test fail. Thus the integrity of the course is protected.

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Fair & Balanced. What if HS was all AP classes? At some point, the effectiveness of AP has to be balanced against the classes that are not AP. Public school, Charter schools, Vouchers, and special ed classes are all competing for dollars. The children are being left out. HS should be where an average student can go to college without much difficulty fitting in academically. Average should be that a student that makes above the minimum SAT to enter most colleges in our state and below high score of 1200 or Zell 100% funded Hope scholarship parameter.

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Love all the hate on KSU like it’s somehow beneath the other schools in the area. You know, unless you’re going for some sort of specialized degree or industry, a bachelor’s degree is a bachelor’s degree and it doesn’t really matter what fancy letterhead is on it. Students should go to school where they want to get a job and live after they graduate and where they won’t have to go into a ton of debt to attend.

I am in the financial services industry and all the top firms in Atlanta hire mostly local graduates for their entry-level positions because they want students with local ties who aren’t going to jump ship at the first opportunity to work in NYC. We’re an Elite Eight firm and most of the finance/accounting majors we pull are from KSU, GSU, GA Southern, and UGA. Of those, usually the KSU and State graduates have the most competitive resumes.

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After reading the articles and the comments, I would like to add my own comment. While I cannot speak about AP classes throughout the state, I can comment on the ones my child took in high school. All the instructors of her AP classes had PHDs. Not in education but in the subject area of their AP classes. Between her ability and the dedication of those instructors, she did very well. When she went to college, she skipped the first calculus class and went straight to the second calculus and did very well. And yes, it was at Georgia Tech. Based on my observations, for an AP class to be successful it has to have the right instructors and the right students.

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Dunwoody Mom,
Speaking for APS, AP exams are not paid for by the system. The state used to fund one exam per AP student. APS used those funds and paid for all exams taken by students on free and reduced lunch. The state cut that funding and now I think APS pays for one exam for students on free and reduced. The rest of us pay for all exams. If the poorer students take more than one AP class, they pretty much have to choose which exam to take.

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My senior year of high school, they just started offering AP classes. The school expected me to enroll in them. After I talked to my parents, we decided that the best path for me was joint enrollment and to start taking college classes.

When I informed the school, I was pulled out of class and *berated* by an English teacher, who told me I didn’t know what I was doing and that I was stupid for passing on AP for joint enrollment. I later found out her real concern was not having enough students to teach the class. That problem was solved by recruiting borderline kids from the next “lower” class to have enough students to “make” the class.

I spent the spring of my senior year taking one class at high school in the morning and two classes at the college. College classes were Monday/Wednesday/Friday. My parents considered Tuesday and Thursday my reward for working hard in high school and earning more credits than I needed. I wound up getting two semesters of college credit, invaluable college experience while still at home, and having an absolute blast. My peers in the AP class? Less than half passed the AP test, and taking the class COST all of them a credit, also. I’m convinced I made the right decision.

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Please excuse all the typos. I intended to write There is NO comparison between AP quality and undergrd quality (of instruction) at almost ANY university.

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@anonymous I will not engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man who has to resort to name calling.

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To Just Saying…
You wrote one of the best things I’ve ever read on this blog.
THANKS.
So nice to see someone use logic.

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I have an idea. If you are qualified and eager to take a college course, why don’t you go to college? Why do we keep our bright students captive in high school programs? The author is correct – we are taking resources away from the rest of the high school population.

And please stop substituting “hard courses” for “educationally enriching”. I completely agree that “AP courses are a scourge … where intellectual curiosity goes to die,” Any course can be made harder – but for it to be relevant – that is a bigger challenge.

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@ Dunwoody Mom w/one child – Although the AP exams are not required, the teachers strongly recommend all students to take them. And we public school parents have to pay for AP exams too (unless students get some type of subsidy). But you are correct about the more competitive colleges not awarding credit for all AP courses taken. In fact, most will only accept up to three. CollegeBoard website offers some info on what AP credits colleges accept: http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/apcreditpolicy/index.jsp

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@ATLborn& raised: very cool!

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@ HS pubic teacher

the stupidist thing I’ve seen in some time is the ignorance in your post.

assuming you are what you claim, a teacher, then you should know the quality of instruction of any course is based on (primarily) two things. the quality of the individual faculty member and the willingness of the student to work.

the USG sets the standards systemwide, so assuming the teaching quality is the same, the education a student gets in any specific class is just the same school to school to school.

if you wish to examine the quality of teaching, GPC is gonna hold its own against Tech 9 times out of 10 since GPC classes aren’t taught by TAs or by some reluctant researcher who is in there out of necessity/force.

same for UGA and Georgia College.

in this area at very least, you need to return to school, as you are sorely in need of educating

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It is too easy to hurl unfounded complaints toward schools and just about everyone has a complaint of some kind. AP programs provide high school students access to more rigorous content and there is no doubt that this program has a positive impact for Georgia’s students. (Note the announcements regarding 13th in the nation for AP results and 2nd in the nation for black students’ results.)

The writers of these essays seem to be driven by their small frame of reference rather than the larger picture of the massive numbers of students having access to advanced curriculum. To use the headline of “fraud” is problematic, too, because it suggests subversive actions. There are none. Teachers work diligently to provide the advanced curriculum to the students in their charge, and by the results seen here in Georgia, many of them are doing quite well.

If these writers are truly in the academic arena, they should attempt to provide more evidence of the claims they make.

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I’ve skimmed through but not read all the comments. AP is not equal at all schools. Colleges use the number of APs taken for admission — not necessarily for credit — the number of APs offered by the HS can be (and will be) used against the child.. the college will judge a transcript against what is offered at the school– so if the school offers 30 AP classes (even if they are poorly taught and packed at 40 kids a class) — the kid wanting to attend a “high end” college is expected to “max out” and do well on AP classes — regardless of whether it is a “good” experience in that HS (e.g. if the teacher is or is not following national curriculum as was happening with my eldest in a 40 kids AP class at his public HS) — AP isn’t the same everywhere. Some HSs have “gateways” and kids are not allowed into the classes without certain recommendations or scores on a particular test (e.g. 10th grade PSAT) — parents may be caught off guard if they don’t know this is going on. Certain colleges are then off limits if the HS offers the APs but the APs isn’t available because of the gateway requirements… Other HSs have an “anybody” in policy but the kids aren’t ready and can’t get out and their grades really suffer (colleges want the kids to do the best they can in the most rigorous course possible….– ideally As in APs but a C in AP may hurt Hope chances….). Also, too many APs and the kid may hit college at too high a level and have problems registering for courses or placing into classes that are too high — the classes may not be the same and they may really be unprepared for French 312 or Calc 3 because their teacher wasn’t as good as Dr. Stinson. It’s not necessarily the same. It depends on the college — e.g. a school like Pomona may want to see 9 APs for admission but will only give a kid credit for 2.

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I agree with the gripes of some posters about the TAs. Unfortunately, many of them do not speak English well enough to be effective teachers. Seeing as we are paying for our children to be taught, it seems that we are getting gypped by the USGA.

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Ascribing this definition to ALL Advanced Placement courses is the mark of someone who feels threatened and/or inadequate in his/her craft. Most people who have taken an AP course in multiple areas will tell us that many times the subject matter dictates whether it is a “forced march” where “intellectual curiosity goes to die.” History happened in a certain order; math and science are based on facts that often build on one another. Psychology and Language and Literature and Foreign Language and Art and Music are entirely different. One must spark intellectual curiosity in these courses. There is more than one way to write an essay; there is more than one way to interpret a poem or a piece of music; there is more than one way to communicate ideas in another language. The conversations of these intellectually curious students in the AP classrooms are what make them worthy of taking.
Perhaps opponents should look at the entire picture rather than lumping every AP course into the dustbin.
I have students who made a 5 on the English Language and Composition exam as juniors and then decide to opt for the dual enrollment path in their senior year. The University of Alabama and Georgia Tech and the University of Alabama all gave those students full or partial credit for their comp courses, but Georgia Perimeter does not. What are those students doing in comp at Georgia perimeter? Many of them are learning basic grammar, diagramming sentences, are re-learning formulaic writing. They walk into the entry level course and feel as though they’ve entered the Twilight Zone. What do we do in my classroom? We read, we discuss, and we write. We learn basic moves of rhetoric and how to see the answer (or non-answer) that is often hidden. We challenge ideas and we back our arguments with facts. We ditch formulas and write to express ourselves in an academically mature but stylistically interesting fashion. No wonder why going back to basic grammar is a slap in the face to my former students.
I feel the sting of that slap when I read what others (who probably never taught multiple AP disciplines) trash all AP courses based on their own limited experiences. Shame on you.

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You make some good points and, in general, I agree with you. My only comment is that I think “Guidance” Counselors should also stop making similar generalizations in favor of AP to the detriment of all other options.

My son’s guidance counselor emphatically stated she does not support dual enrollment as any AP course my son would take in HS would be more “rigorous” (I really hate that word) than anything he’d get in college. Poppycock. Much depends upon the teacher/professor and HS/college/university. My son goes to a well-respected HS, but his current AP Computer Science class pales in comparison to the same subject matter class being taught at GT. How do I know? I actually know the professor who teaches that class and said that what my son has covered in 4 weeks in his AP class, the GT class went through in 1.5 weeks. He also noted some deficiency in the AP CS curriculum. I am not stating this to malign his HS or teacher, but to merely point out that a motivated student should be allowed to “move on when ready.” Or did Deal lie again?

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@ AP Teacher

I don’t quite understand your point. The AP course you describe yourself as teaching sounds like a good secondary course, the kind of course that students would all do well to take before going off to a university to be taught by professors. Instead of posturing as some sort of college-level teacher, almost a professor, you should take credit for being a strong high school teacher.

My question is, wouldn’t your skills at teaching a good high school course be better applied in a high school course?

I’m puzzled as to why students who have such good secondary preparation as yours would go to Georgia Perimeter. People I know who have worked in such institutions refer to them as “Grade Thirteen.” It seems that your students are prepared for higher instruction, so why Perimeter?

I agree with the original author. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule, but high school teachers should teach high school classes. The place to take college courses is college, not your local high school. AP courses taught by high school teachers are not college courses.

Of course, in our world of dumbing down and grade inflation, one can easily understand the source of the idea that AP courses are “just like college, only cheaper.” Every student is so above average now that no one even has to go to college to enter higher education. Right.

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The Advanced Placement Program® invites AP® teachers and students to examine multiple sides of an issue — thinking critically, examining evidence, and then arguing with precision and accuracy — and this invitation extends to their views of the AP Program itself. Accordingly, AP evolves from year to year, thanks in no small part to insightful and incisive feedback from educators and youth.

So when I read a recent blog post by John Tierney, I was disappointed that he hadn’t demonstrated the same critical thinking skills we see so effectively deployed by AP students, who recognize that hyperbole and overstatement should be used sparingly, that intellectually honest arguments must be grounded in evidence, and that complex issues require careful thinking.

On behalf of the tens of thousands of AP teachers and students whose classroom experiences Mr. Tierney so unilaterally condemns, I’m writing to provide some evidence intended to describe a much more diverse set of AP experiences than Mr. Tierney allows.

Mr. Tierney says AP courses don’t “hold a candle” to the college course he taught. I have no data about the quality of the course he taught, so can only compare AP courses to the introductory college courses at institutions like Duke, Stanford, University of California–Berkeley, University of Texas at Austin, and Yale, which are among dozens of institutions that each recently piloted AP Exam questions among its own students to confirm comparability of content, skills and rigor. In fact, 5,000 college professors from the nation’s leading colleges and universities participate annually in the review of every AP teacher’s course, the writing of each AP Exam question, and the scoring of the AP Exams. These professors consistently attest to the overall quality of AP teachers’ work and its comparability to the best outcomes of introductory college courses. These professors recognize that just as there is much variability among the thousands of instructors who teach introductory courses on college campuses, there is variability among AP teachers. And these professors express a wish that there were as much support for quality across the instructors of introductory college courses, many of whom are graduate students teaching their first courses, as there is for AP teachers, let alone a consistent external examination to serve as a reliable and valid measure of learning in such coursework.

After castigating AP teachers, Mr. Tierney condemns AP students as well, claiming that “two thirds” of his own AP students did not belong in his course and “dragged down the course” for students who did “belong there.” Again, I will not claim visibility into his own experience with his own students, but I can say that nationally, there has been a great victory among educators who have believed that a more diverse population could indeed succeed in AP courses. In 2012, AP scores were higher than they’d been since 2004, when one million fewer students were being given access. These outcomes are a powerful testament to educators’ belief that many more students were indeed ready and waiting for the sort of rigor that would prepare them for what they would encounter in college.

Despite educators having doubled the number of underrepresented minority students participating in AP over the past decade, we do share Mr. Tierney’s concern that “large percentages of minority students are essentially left out.” Our data show that among African American, Hispanic and Native American students with a high degree of readiness for AP, only about half of these students are participating, often because their schools do not yet offer the AP course. We call for continued commitment to expanding the availability of AP courses among prepared and motivated students of all backgrounds.

This is not at all the same as claiming that all students, here and now, should be enrolled in AP courses. These are, indeed, college-level courses. The data show this irrefutably. But just as all American students are not yet prepared for college, all American students are not yet prepared for AP course work. We must be vigilant about fostering greater readiness for AP, and then we must care for students within AP courses by providing support, mentorship and encouragement.
This also includes investments in addressing the balance of the breadth and depth required by AP courses. We engage professors and teachers regularly in the review of AP course content, and we find that in most AP subjects, AP teachers and students have significant flexibility to tailor the AP requirements to topics and issues of deep personal interest, while developing a rich understanding of the key concepts and skills in each discipline. But in science and history, two subject areas that, by their very nature, expand the amount of possible content with every passing day and new discovery, we have recognized a need to implement a significant redesign effort that frees teachers and students from the pressure to cover superficially all possible topics. This redesign has been embraced by higher and secondary education alike as the new “gold standard” in introductory college science and history curricula.

Finally, Mr. Tierney’s financial claims are inaccurate. Contrary to Mr. Tierney’s statement, schools do not pay to offer AP courses. Instead, the not-for-profit College Board incurs the costs to register a school to offer AP courses and to authorize each locally developed AP syllabus, and we subsidize teacher professional development for schools unable to afford to send a teacher to one of the dozens of U.S. universities that train new AP teachers each summer. The AP Exams themselves are optional (80 percent of students opt to take them), and we cover all of our operating costs (developing, printing, shipping, scoring the exams) with the $89 exam fee, which is less than the cost of a typical college textbook, let alone the credit hours for that college course. For students unable to afford the $89 fee, the College Board partners with federal and state and local agencies to reduce the fee (historically to $0–5 per exam). After paying for our expenses with the exam fees, decisions about the use of any remaining funds are decided by our Board of Trustees, which is composed of educators from colleges, universities and secondary schools. Unlike a for-profit entity, where profits privately benefit investors, the College Board is obligated to reinvest remaining funds in educational programs, specifically because it is a not-for-profit organization. The College Board Trustees ensure these funds are used to improve educational opportunity and quality for a diversity of students. This year, they have approved the use of such funds to provide, for example, scholarships to teachers; increased subsidies to low-income students; creation of online score reports for AP students; and online learning supports for students.

The AP Program is not a silver bullet. It is not a simple cure for all challenges we face within our education systems. But as educators use AP standards to help a diversity of students engage in rigorous work worth doing, I find myself inspired daily by what they are achieving.

Trevor Packer
Senior Vice President, Advanced Placement and SpringBoard Programs
The College Board

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[...] this month, I linked to a controversial essay in the Atlantic by a former college professor and high school teacher criticizing Advanced Placement [...]

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