Rating teachers: Ruining the profession and running off good people
With teacher ratings becoming a reality, many people are expressing concerns about the impact on the profession. I read two great pieces this weekend that I want to share here. (Also, please read the column I ran Friday from a charter school principal in Atlanta about his concerns over the low value-added score given his school.)
In an op-ed in The New York Times, Deborah Kenny, chief executive and founding principal of Harlem Village Academies and the author of “Born to Rise: A Story of Children and Teachers Reaching Their Highest Potential,” joins the chorus of concern, noting that her charter school once dismissed a teacher whose students posted great scores on tests. But the teacher derided students and was so negative to be around that other teachers were considering quitting. Yet, under rating models based largely on student scores, that teacher would have been rated at the very top, Kenny says.
Kenny — who calls herself an opponent of teacher tenure and runs a charter school network in Harlem where teachers work under at-will contracts — writes: (This is an excerpt. Please read the full piece before commenting.)
Education and political leaders across the country are currently trying to decide how to evaluate teachers. Some states are pushing for legislation to sort teachers into categories using unreliable mathematical calculations based on student test scores. Others have hired external evaluators who pop into classrooms with checklists to monitor and rate teachers. In all these scenarios, principals have only partial authority, with their judgments factored into a formula.
This type of system shows a profound lack of understanding of leadership. Principals need to create a culture of trust, teamwork and candid feedback that is essential to running an excellent school. Leadership is about hiring great people and empowering them, and requires a delicate balance of evaluation and encouragement. At Harlem Village Academies we give teachers an enormous amount of freedom and respect. As one of our seventh-grade reading teachers told me: “It’s exhilarating to be trusted. It makes me feel like I can be the kind of teacher I had always dreamed about becoming: funny, interesting, effective and energetic.”
Some of the new government proposals for evaluating teachers, with their checklists, rankings and ratings, have been described as businesslike, but that is just not true. Successful companies do not publicly rate thousands of employees from a central office database; they don’t use systems to take the place of human judgment. They trust their managers to nurture and build great teams, then hold the managers accountable for results.
In the same way, we should hold principals strictly accountable for school performance and allow them to make all personnel decisions. That can’t be done by adhering to rigid formulas. There is no formula for quantifying compassion, creativity, intellectual curiosity or any number of other traits that make a group of teachers motivate one another and inspire greatness in their students. Principals must be empowered to use everything they know about their faculty — including student achievement data — to determine which teachers they will retain, promote or, when necessary, let go. This is how every successful enterprise functions.
In an essay on Valerie Strauss’ Answer Sheet blog at the Washington Post, a Massachusetts teacher in an inner city elementary school writes about being upset over earning a low value-added score this year in the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System. Rebecca Cusick writes that she should know better as she is well versed on the flaws in the how such scores are generated. (And that’s why she didn’t want to accept accolades last year when she earned a very high score.)
Teacher Rebecca Cusick writes: (This is an excerpt. Please read the full piece before commenting.)
Most teachers understand how the composition of a class impacts their test scores. They know that children with special needs don’t have the chance to show their strengths on a bubble test. They know that English Language Learners get lost in the phrasing of the questions, and that homeless children don’t put tests high up on their priority list. They know that students who are frequently absent or changing schools have gaps in their learning.
But not all teachers know, as I do, about the voodoo math behind value-added scores. I’m aware of the flaws in the assessments, in the calculation of growth, and the collateral damage they cause. I devour articles and editorials that condemn the use of testing for high stakes decisions. So why do I, of all people, take this so personally when I should know better?
Maybe it’s because I gave it everything I’ve got. Last year’s class was needier than some of my previous groups. They shared stories of desperation that would prevent most adults from functioning well. Sleeping on a floor in an over-crowded, rat-infested apartment, seeing a family member arrested, and looking forward to dinner at the soup kitchen; these are not the tales of an idyllic childhood.
I vowed to help them grow both academically and emotionally. I ran after school math and science clubs, and I started a food pantry for our families. Afraid to even take a sick day, I spent unprecedented amounts of time analyzing data and planning lessons. I showed fidelity to the new reading program, and I differentiated my instruction.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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100 comments Add your comment
Michael Goike
October 15th, 2012
10:51 am
Boo Hoo Hoo….get em all a crying towel to go with that whine! The status quo of letting a teacher teach and reach tenure and then never getting rid of them when they don’t perform has never worked! Look at Chicago teachers who just got a raise after their last strike even though less than 60% of high school students graduate. Go ahead blame the lack of parents, gangs, violence and unsafe streets, maybe even the easter bunny for giving out too much candy.
Teachers need to be evaluated and held accountable for their students not being ready for the next grade in school or life after school. They made a choice to teach, mentor young people and prepare them for the working world. If that is too hard for them GET ANOTHER JOB!!!!!
Cobb Math Teacher
October 15th, 2012
11:02 am
I do not care how you rate me as long as you change one thing–blacklisting a teacher who was ever let go. You talk about seniority being bad but teaching is the only profession I know of–there may be others that I am ignorant of–where the first time you are fired from a position is the last time you will ever work in that field. If you want teachers to be treated the same as private enterprise, allow us the opportunity to disagree with a climate or situation, be let go, and then move to a more or less favorable position somewhere else–independently interviewed and hired of course. This is not allowed in the teaching field and if you are ever fired even for a disagreement with your boss, you will never work in public education again.
abacus2
October 15th, 2012
11:03 am
When did tenure come to mean that teachers can’t be fired? Tenure protects teachers from arbitrary politics within a school. ANY teacher can be fired for cause. The problem is that many administrators are too lazy to do the documentation.
catlady
October 15th, 2012
11:06 am
It seems that it doesn’t matter what you give; more is expected.
Johnny Too Good
October 15th, 2012
11:18 am
No teacher should be punished or receive a negative evaluation becuz students and parents dont wanna learn or take their education seriously.
U want higher graduation rates and better schools? End compulsory education
Me
October 15th, 2012
11:22 am
I get so tired of hearing people complain about teachers unions. You know, a good portion of teachers are NOT in teachers unions. Many who are in them do it because it is a requirement, not because it an added perk to the job. The biggest problem with the school disticts across the country is that they don’t let the teachers teach anymore. Everyone from parents to the latest person to get a PHd and have a “brilliant idea” has input. It’s a constant “do this”,but “don’t do that”, “say this”, “but don’t say that”. Most teachers are so beat down after a few years that they just go with the flow to keep their jobs (talk about being bullied). I think it’s interesting how people get on blogs and blast teachers for doing what they are told to do at their jobs, yet they would never risk their OWN jobs going against what is in effect mandated of them. Oh and the priceless…”Get Another Job”, like it’s so easy to just hop from one job to another. Everyone is always a genius problem solver online. To bad the don’t get offline and share with the rest of the country.
Hillbilly D
October 15th, 2012
11:25 am
It seems that it doesn’t matter what you give; more is expected.
That’s been true of every job I’ve ever had, especially in the last 10 years or so. The more work you do, the more they put on you. That’s easier than making the slackers pull their weight.
Tonya C.
October 15th, 2012
11:36 am
Cobb Math Teacher:
Bravo. And I mean that seriously. Bravo. As an HR person, I have yet to see another field like teaching where you can get blacklisted so friggin easily. I have seen it up close and it is atrocious. It reeks of a vendetta nature.
Catlady:
Absolutely.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 15th, 2012
11:40 am
I have said it before but I want to reiterate. Bubble tests of any sort are being taken away. The value added is more emotional than academic as Rebecca Cusick mentions in her post. And the emotional component is not a deficit model. PBIS, Positive Behavioral Incentive Systems, applies to all students and is coming in under the Response to Intervention, federal disabilities law jurisdiction. I am on the mailing list and got it the day it was sent out.
The teacher eval is to ensure compliance with this affective orientation for the classroom. You can be an ignoramus about the academic subject matter and still do well in the teacher eval. You can be the finest teacher in the world with a expert level of knowledge and unmatched abilities to teach it to your students. If you are lecturing about content, you will be graded poorly on the teacher eval.
Compliance is being expected from both students and teachers and principals too. Effective in education is yet another entry in Attentive Parent’s Glossary of Misleading Terms.
BehindEnemyLines
October 15th, 2012
11:40 am
All that whine, all that’s missing is government cheese to go with it. With so much dead weight feeding at the taxpayer’s trough already, it would only be appropriate.
northern neighbor
October 15th, 2012
11:46 am
I am more concerned whether we have a good mechanism for evaluating the performance of the superintendents and principals. If we have good leaders in the school system, they will make sure they have good teachers.
Jarod Apperson
October 15th, 2012
11:56 am
Teacher rating systems like the on Deborah Kenny opposes are the result of an effort to protect teachers from “school politics.” There is a trade off here. You can give Principals the authority to hire & fire teachers, but this introduces some fear that personal issues may influence the Principals choices. On the flip side, you can ask an “objective” evaluation system, but those systems end up being data driven. Most professionals deal with some level of politics in their work environments. By trying to avoid this dynamic at all costs, I think teachers have backed themselves into a corner of test-based evaluations. Teachers should advocate for more power to be given to local principals. Better to have a little bit of politics than an “objective” system you don’t think accurately measures your ability/performance.
WhiteRabbit
October 15th, 2012
11:59 am
There are some real teacher-haters on here who ought to be at the bottom of a well.
dc
October 15th, 2012
12:05 pm
waiting for the teachers who complain about being evaluated based on what their kids learn (tests, you know, that instrument that teachers have used since the beginning of time as the best possible measure for what kids have learned) to come out with their alternative plan. Oh, it’s already there??? My buddy the AP watches me for 1 hour, I’m on my absolute best behaviour, and I get my gold star….seriously?
I love how it’s OK to measure a student based on test scores, but “its not FAIR” to measure the person paid to teach those children the same way.
As I’ve said before, thank goodness most teachers don’t think the same way that this whining minority of teachers do.
concerned
October 15th, 2012
12:11 pm
It doesn’t matter how teachers reply to the new evaluation process no one inside or outside of education cares. Teachers have been left behind in the terminal ward. When a teacher voices concern it is perceived as whining and complaining. What people fail to realize is pretty soon there will not be very many great teachers left in public school. They will leave and take their years of experience and dedication to a job that will care. But who cares…right?
Teachers do not get to choose their students. When students enter their classroom in the fall they MUST take them even if they are two or more grade levels behind in reading and/or math. They MUST teach them the new standards even if they do not have the skill level to master them. They MUST make gains from the previous years test scores from the previous years class of students. It doesn’t matter that the new group makes gains it only matters that their class test scores are better than the previous. If you think that if fair then you really don’t understand the problem and you won’t listen to reason as to why this is wrong.
Old Physics Teacher
October 15th, 2012
12:14 pm
In addition to Cobb Math Teacher complaints: If you want to have us respond as if we were in the private sector, then pay us what the private sector gets paid!! I left a comparable job – corporate trainer which, in today’s market, pays from $65k to $140k for a 40 hour week + expenses + 2 to 6 weeks vacation + bonuses + plus a 401k. I’ll be glad to put the additional 60k in my own private “pension.” Now I do have to “teach” a board of execs annually to keep that job. That’s my evaluation, because I’m rated on my teaching – NOT MY STUDENTS’ LEARNING! I have no control over what or how much the employee learns. If they don’t learn THEY are fired, not me.
All you complainers about teachers, are you willing to pony up the additional cost for this? I thought not.
ABC
October 15th, 2012
12:17 pm
Ok, so they don’t want to be evaluated on tests, because, well…the fact that a student could do poorly on a test is not at all due to bad teaching; oh noes, it is always the environment, the home, the culture, the gangs, what ever the diddly eff. So no, can’t hold teachers responsible there.
They don’t want to be evaluated by observation or parent surveys or peer reports or any kind of “objective” criteria, because the fact that they might fare poorly can’t be their own bad teaching; oh noes, it has to be the principal’s vendetta, the parents’ not caring, or the parents caring too much. So no, can’t hold teachers accountable that way either.
So tell me teachers, at the end of the day you want NO accountability whatsoever right? Nothing to hold you to performance right? Nothing that could POSSIBLY motivate you to do well right? Despite the fact that we trust you each day for 8 hours with our most precious possessions.
EVERYONE gets evaluated over things they have no control of. EVERYONE has to deal with politics and crappy bosses. Time you learn how to do that too.
Teachers are not the ones in charge
October 15th, 2012
12:17 pm
How about evaluating the school system’s highly paid administrators – would they be willing to lose their jobs if students don’t learn and improve according to some random, politically motivated series of metrics?
dc
October 15th, 2012
12:18 pm
old physics…i suspect that job left you. those jobs don’t exist anymore, and the companies who used to offer them have either gone out of bankruptcy or woken up to the fact that they were way overpaying for that position. I have the utmost of respect for what good teachers do (and will be the first to say bad ones should be fired). But everyone with a job works after hours and weekends these days. Most of the rest of us don’t have summers and spring and winter break off.
Teachers are not underpaid. The only folks who think that are teachers, and those who haven’t actually thought through the actual numbers. What they are is under recognized…meaning when everyone gets paid the same, then there is no incentive to perform. And over time, even the best teachers just give up in that environment.
A Teacher
October 15th, 2012
12:24 pm
Mr. Goike-
I invite you to come into my classroom. Work feverishly everyday with my students. Love them, nurture them, teach them, and challenge them. See all of their growth throughout the year. Then, in April, adminster the CRCT test and see a completely different snapshot of their hard work. Until then, please don’t insult the teaching profession with your naive perspective.
Teaching a class of students who are reading two to three years below grade level does not allow me to put too much stock into a test of over 100 pages, written on and above grade level. For some, the test is read to them, but others, they are given this test when they SIMPLY will not be able to show all of their growth. It does not show their hard work or progress.
I am tired of so many people judging teachers. It has gotten overwhelmingly frustrating. Come on in, see what we do everyday. I invite you! You seem to know how to teach far better than any of us, so come on! Where are you?
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
12:32 pm
@ Michael Goike, Respectfully(?) you are entirely clueless about the effect of caste system. Chicago Public Schools 84 percent low income students. Quit school and work so mama can have groceries? Sounds good to me. Go to college and take on life crushing debt? Not a good idea. I know one person who left high school, then got a G.E.D., then an econ degree and then went to law school and got his “degree” there. It might seem abstract, but I think upper tier / age high school students should have the right to quit school without being used as a political object. I left high school a year early. It was time for me to move on and I felt nothing in common with sitting around through senior year. The end was in sight and I took it. I’ve met a few students who needed to have a job and driving a delivery truck more than they needed to be in the classroom. The WW2 bunch, “the greatest generation” routinely left home early to go and work.
indigo
October 15th, 2012
12:33 pm
This kind of evaluation thinking will result in a large group of good people leaving and an even larger group of incompetent people entering the teaching profession because they can’t find work anywhere else.
Jaynie
October 15th, 2012
12:37 pm
In reply to DC and others complaining about teachers, you need to try being a teacher first. It is an outstanding effort by most teachers under some pretty poor working conditions. If you are in a private sector job at any skill level whatsoever, you may be doing some weekend or afterhours work, but you are not supplying your own work materials to do that work. You are not listening to some parent complain because her little apple dumpling could not possible have failed to be respectful, just because he or she spit on you is no reason for that little apple dumpling to be reprimanded. If you are in the private sector, your pay is dependent on many things not least of which is the performance of your business as a whole, no on some political whim when a state government decides to cut education budgets, but decide to build a fishing museum. I feel for those teachers who are giving it their all, but get absolutely no respect from the likes of DC, ABC, Behind Enemy Lines. As far as summers off, so what. Most folks get paid vacation that they can take anytime, not just in the summer.
Shar
October 15th, 2012
12:38 pm
The bitter absurdity here is not that Ms. Cusick is being evaluated by some unfeeling objective criteria. She, as so many of the above posters have mentioned, has to expect to be evaluated according to some supervisors’ set of priorities and values, just like the rest of us do.
The blistering stupidity is that she finds herself trying to teach around, and compensate for, her students’ “stories of desperation” that clearly interfere with their ability to concentrate on the content she is charged with delivering. Where is social services? Where are the parents? Where are the interventions that are needed before these kids can even attempt to reach class levels?
No one asks a social worker to teach algebra, and social workers are not graded on whether or not a child in their care can successfully navigate a+b=c. State policies need to be changed to either gauge Ms. Cusick’s (and others’) effectiveness based on what she is actually trying to deliver or put social workers in schools to take this load off teachers and get these “desperate” kids the food, care and support they need. Inevitably, Ms. Cusick’s not-so-desperate students must have been held back or received little of her attention as she worked so hard to do the jobs that parents and social service professionals should have been doing, but sloughed off onto her.
If parents are unhappy with the reduced attention and held back learning of the more-able students in classes like Ms. Cusick’s, and teachers are resentful (as she clearly is) of being downgraded because they are devoting their efforts to salvaging the neediest of the students, classroom management has to change. Taxpayers have a right to have the best education delivered in public classrooms and parents have a right to demand reasonable proportionality of a teacher’s efforts across a class group.
Social service professionals should be stationed in schools like Ms. Cusick’s to permit her to teach and to ensure that the neediest kids are not supported haphazardly (as must happen when a teacher tries to take this on) but concertedly by the appropriate area specialists.
Greg Kaiser
October 15th, 2012
12:40 pm
A Teacher,
A nice response to Mr. Goike’s uninformed opinion.
As an aside, I encourage all posters to use your actual names. To not do so undercuts the legitimacy of whatever opinions you express or comments you make.
Have A Smile! ☺☻
October 15th, 2012
12:43 pm
We live in a country where good teachers can be fired for having a nice picture of them enjoying a well-deserved glass of wine on Facebook, courteous of self-righteous cowardly snitches & dumba$$ administrators.
I don’t even know where to begin! I sure won’t sit here and be an armchair critic of teachers. I can’t imagine the crap they deal with.
RJ
October 15th, 2012
12:44 pm
All of this crap is most definitely pushing folks out the door. My neighbor recently shared with me that she took a 50% cut in pay to teach. She really always knew that where her heart was. Well, now she’s itching to get back into the corporate world after 6 years of teaching. She’s disgusted with the expectations and treatment of teachers. She’s not even complaining about the pay, just the ridicuous workload. I look forward to moving on. This profession doesn’t respect those of us that give 110% daily. Just be quiet and do what you’re told. No unions here, so we don’t really have much of a voice without losing our jobs.
Woody
October 15th, 2012
12:45 pm
Let’s see: “we should hold principals strictly accountable for school performance and allow them to make all personnel decisions.” Well, on the face of it this sounds OK, but wasn’t that what was driving the cheating scandal? Principals were threatened with their jobs unless they elevated performance measures, so they made ‘personnel decisions’ that made sure teachers willing to cheat were retained, and teachers unwilling to go along were pressured out. Maybe we should stand back and think all of this over a little more. But as for the topic of today’s question, I doubt that good teaching is measurable. Do the kids like the teacher? That should be the question being asked.
Dina
October 15th, 2012
12:46 pm
Dear Georgia Parents,
ALEC is at work in this state and many others. Teachers/schools must be vilified so they can be replaced with for-profit schools. Beware the evaluation efforts….and many other things.
Fulton County Schools….now a “Charter System”……is referring to students as: CUSTOMERS.
What does that tell you? Please stop the bickering about teachers….understand what is at stake here….put your energy into fighting these efforts.
Grandpa
October 15th, 2012
12:47 pm
Teachers are rarely the whole problem, or even part of the problem. There is a strong and direct correlation between kids who are less prepared for the next level or out-right fail and the level of support and preparation they get at home. The deck is stacked against teachers today. Parents are really the ones who are responsible for their childrens education.
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
12:48 pm
@ ABC, “So tell me teachers, at the end of the day you want NO accountability whatsoever right? Nothing to hold you to performance right?”
You’re buying the crack big power is selling you. For starters lay off the all/everything generalization talk. I realise you may be a newbie to looking at these issues. If the highway is designed wrong, do you stop and yell at the guys with the dump trucks and shovels? That’s what you’re doing. In the USA, right now, the support materials for teachers and disorganized or non-existent. It is really a wise-guy routine to do all of this overt testing in an environment that is so lacking in consistent support materials. Right now there are lot of “guidelines” i.e. standards that teachers are supposed to apply. The result is lots of individual teachers struggling like mad, each having to invent their own way to meet these “guidelines.”
So ABC, your view is too simple and you’re blaming the wrong people. In a government school system, teachers should not have to work each in isolation and each having to invent their own methods and supplies out of necessity. The result is predictable, uneven and discoordinated and yes, a few “miracle and “superman” successes occur, but it is very hard on most workers and I mean the capable ones. Going into a factory and celebrating the few wunderkind and then abusing the rest of the workers is not good management. Telling the public to blame the non-wunderkind workers is not good management.
A story. Once I was in a hallway and a student had been put out of class and was sitting in a desk in the hallway and had a math book open. I was walking by and as sometimes is my habit, I made a comment to the student, briefly asked them what was up, and encouraged them to forget their care, come back to earth on what was bothering them, etc. (to let them know they are not in isolation)(usually when a student is put out of class, they are steamed up about something). While talking to the student, I looked at their math book and presentation of concepts in the book and I said to myself, “OMG that’s the worst textbook I’ve ever seen in my life.” The one page I looked at was written in a confusing way. Maybe it was “new math” or something. Maybe I need to apply for a grant and start evaluating this stuff.
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
12:55 pm
@Woody, You’ve answered your own question on what was driving the test score cheating scandal, “Principals were threatened with their jobs.” There were also financial incentives for the individuals at the central office.
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
1:12 pm
@Shar, It is my opinion that not having universal health care for all citizens is causal in schools having to have so much requirement for social workers and associated issues. It is distracting in the school house when the school has to play doctor as well as educator. FYI, USA is the only 1st world country that does not have health care for all of its citizens. The only one. Every other western country, every single one of them, has health care coverage for all of its citizens. Japan, Germany, Canada, Italy, France, Britain, Ireland, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, every modern western country outside of the USA has a health care system for every citizen. It’s the difference in being a 1st world and a 2nd world country. And yes, in the USA low income government kids, you have a portion of freaked-out kids from freak-out families with very much for-real freaked out problems. Personally and candidly, I do not like teaching kids who do not have eyeglasses. It really gets on my nerves.
bubba
October 15th, 2012
1:16 pm
One objective criteria that should be used to evaluate teachers:
Amount of time spent during the school day whining on blogs
as DC above says:
” thank goodness most teachers don’t think the same way that this whining minority of teachers do.”
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
1:21 pm
Teacher unions? Real teacher unions with real power? The states that have them perform better. Documented.
Halftrack
October 15th, 2012
1:36 pm
What is the % per centage of students that have to take remedial courses at college entrance? Can these students comprehend English. Since word problems in math & algebra have disappeared from schools, students much more difficulty than in prior years. If we look at some street polls, college students don’t know who their elected leaders are in government. We have no pride in who we are as a nation. Today, less that 20% of people getting a PHD are Americans and the other percentile come from foreign countries. Go figure.
Another comment
October 15th, 2012
1:54 pm
@ Cobb math teacher my daughter was at Campbell High School when Grant Rivera misused the RIF a couple of years ago to fire 10 of 17 Math teachers. He then promptly reported 8 of the 10 positions which he filled will his buddies male and female from South Cobb. The community was completely outraged and fought back. Two of the math teachers were to of the best teachers the school had. The one my daughter had was tough, but you learned the math. If you got a B you knew the Math. Luckily, the two best had the community rally around them and won their jobs back. One of the teachers that was rifted was so pissed was in his 3rd year he told me he was not going to lower himself to reapply to Cobb. He went don’t to Bibb to teach and is working on a real doctorate to teach in college.
My daughter ended up with one of Rivera’s choosen few from South Cobb, in two weeks they had no homework in math , but somehow she had an A. Then I was informed she was going to be moved for over crowding, they wanted to put her with another replacement. I said no, if she is going to be moved put her with Mr. M, the teacher who won his job back. He was aghast that my daughter had no homework for 2 weeks. He made her make it up. She ended up with a B, but she knew the Math. Jr.year she loved math and was way ahead the other kids, thanks to Mr.M. Who she Plans to ask for college references because she feels he made a difference in her education. She is now scoring higher on Math on SAT than other sections opposite her PSAT score.
Why is it that teachers are ruined but Principals, Administrators and Supt. go from county to county?
dc
October 15th, 2012
1:57 pm
Seriously, Jaynie, I need to be a teacher first, before having thoughts as to what do do about our worst schools? Do you really believe that? Then I guess you believe that only ex-military should be allowed to be president (you know…Commander in chief, since clearly only an ex military person would be expected to “understand” soldiers). Honestly, you can’t really believe that.
And I’m seriously baffled at the fact that none of the folks complaining about the value added eval method can come up with any other approaches that make sense.
Another comment
October 15th, 2012
2:01 pm
There also seems to be no diffraction from those who ran into the pricks of principals of those who were sexual predators, but the county different have another.
I know of an English/ special Ed teacher who was having sex with high school seniors last spring and then rewarding them with fake ID’s. But he left the district so unless they get enough criminal information for the DA to prosecute, he will hend up at another school. Meanwhile several students were bought booze with the fake ID and arrested with MIPS’s
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
2:05 pm
re: eyeglasses. As a teacher you can’t do anything about it and it is terrible watching kids suffer. Goes like this. Refer to school nurse. School nurse checks and documents, sends letter to the home. End of story, nothing happens.
Jaynie
October 15th, 2012
2:48 pm
Being president does not require military experience, but you better know who go to for information and support if you don’t have military experience and you are the president. If teachers don’t get support from parents and their version of upper management, how can they be held accountable. A lot of folks think they could go right into the classroom, teach, be effective and be evaluated by other folks that don’t know anything about teaching. Not all teachers are good at their jobs, but not all of them are bad either the way a lot of folks seem to think from some of these comments.
bubba
October 15th, 2012
2:50 pm
Jaynie:
So how do you determine these: “Not all teachers are good at their jobs”
Tom Thomas
October 15th, 2012
3:24 pm
Close the closes and hand out vouchers. Fulton Co. has an annual budget of 1.3 billion dollars. All I know is we are not getting 1.3 billion dollars worth of education. Each school gets about 9 grand per kid. Hand each parent 9 grand per kid and let them go to ANY school they want, even if it is a ‘non accredited’ school. My kid will do fine under that system. The kids who are getting a crappy education in their local schools WILL NOT BE ANY WORSE OFF. Close the damn schools and hand out vouchers.
WhiteWolf of the Bones
October 15th, 2012
3:31 pm
Everyone gets their panties all in a wad with each thing that comes down the education pike…but everyone ignores the real story. Education as we knew it is dead and gone, buried for good. The whole point of education now is to turn out ignorant, willing slaves. Robin Eubanks knows this, and has done the research to prove it. Invisibleserfscollar.com. Check it out for yourselves.
If you want your child educated, it is up to you to make sure that happens. Regardless of what the school systems are doing. Monitor what they doing, what they are learning, and counter the propaganda. Good books must be read. Educational shows on TV must be watched. Discussions with your children must be had. Constantly watch, and intervene. What they are getting in the schools this year has changed drastically, and Common Core has nothing ‘common’ about it. Common sense is what is needed, but that is sorely lacking in all areas of government. Save your own children’s minds…I guarantee the school system is not going to do it. Yes, we still have good teachers, but we won’t have them for long under the systems now in place…and that is the intent. Can’t have good willing slaves without teachers willing to teach under that system. And good teachers recognize what is happening and know they won’t be tolerated for long.
And you wonder why many of us are for charter schools? Not so we can enrich the pockets of those who are jumping on the bandwagon for the big bucks…but so we can at least have some pockets of resistance. Some of these charters will actually teach our children well, and the knowledgeable parents will make sure of that.
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
3:31 pm
@ Tom Thomas, Do a search for term “belgium school voucher system.”
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
Vouchers and Voucher-like Programs in
European and OECD Countries
Country Mechanism
Australia Assistance to private schools
Belgium Students choose among public schools and “free” schools (Catholic)
Canada Capitation grants and assistance to private schools
Czech Republic Assistance to private schools
England Assistance to private schools
France Private schools (Catholic) receive subsidies from government
Holland National, universal voucher
Hungary Parental financing to their choice of public and private schools
Japan Assistance to private schools
Netherlands Capitation grants
New Zealand Higher unit level of funding for poorer students
Poland Assistance to private schools
Scotland Students choose among public schools
Spain Pre-school voucher experiment
Sweden Capitation grants, school choice in some municipalities
United States Voucher experiments: public, private, charter schools
__________________
Guess which one country on the list does not have universal health care for its citizens?
Richard
October 15th, 2012
3:41 pm
Michael Goike- Bravo, I LOLLED out loud. Its so funny, and so true. Teachers need to be evaluated, by students.
AlreadySheared
October 15th, 2012
3:54 pm
Ms. Kenny’s article conflates evaluating teachers with treating them as low-level, highly scripted employees. Those two things are not the same.
Measuring the learning outcomes of a teacher’s students is not the same as making teaching such a tightly controlled process that no intelligent person would want to do it.
teacher
October 15th, 2012
3:58 pm
teachers should be rated and evaluated just like in any profession. However they should be rated or evaluated using the current flawed methods.
Specially in the inner city poor public schools in Atlanta, thuggish gangsta administration ( yes i am talking about APS) use the current observation and evaluation system as a vindictive tool to kick out teachers they dont like. Oh the PDP ( professional development plan) tool is completely misused as a way to shaft teachers they dont like.
If the state of georgia truly wants to use an effective tool to rate teachers then they need to look at England and Finland. Teacher evaluations and even in class observations are handled outside of the school system by a state agency who have no axe to grind except to be objective evaluators. Oh also in England and Finland they use sophisticated video observation for teacher rating and teacher quality improvement. What good is teacher rating(s) if you cannot give the teacher specifics on what and how to improve.
Centrist
October 15th, 2012
4:02 pm
(Some) teachers and liberal bloggers sniveling about concerns of rating teachers is an old story. Other than government/civil service evaluations which seldom have meaning, job holders are always subject to evaluation. Evaluation is a valuable tool to find the exceptional, spot those who have areas that could be improved, and (horrors) weed out the incompetent.
DN
October 15th, 2012
4:04 pm
It is very easy to say some of the tings that some of the posters say, having never been inside the educational system. I probably felt the same way some of you do before I married a teacher. After seeing the school sytem from the inside, I easily decided that I would never have their job. Baseball managers and coaches are rotuinely fired from their job because their teams don’t respond to their coaching by winning. Quite often that coach or manager had a bit of say so in whom they were coaching or managing. As was stated before by one post, the teachers are assigned their class with virtually no say so as to whom they are given as far as students go. To rate the teacher by their class cores or something similar, in those situations, would be totally wrong. If you have never been inside the classroom, or have a spouse who has, you have no clue. Let my spouse pick her classs and see what her class scores are then. Just so you know, it is not always the child or the teacher. If you are a parent, look in the mirror and you will see a large portion of the problem. If you do nothing but complain about the teachers, you are the problem.
Lou
October 15th, 2012
4:17 pm
@Private citizen…ive only been out of school a few years, but after elementary there is no school nurse. You went to the office if you need your medication and the secretaries helped you.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
October 15th, 2012
4:26 pm
For years Dr. John Trotter has been crying in the wilderness as he has explained the diminution of the teaching as a profession and the accompanying loss of many of its most able members. Why do so many turn deaf ears to his assertions (1) that good teaching conditions are essential for good learning conditions and (2) that such learning conditions are scarce in many of our public schools.
Because good teachers find their greatest professional satisfaction in helping their students learn, they leave situations wherein poor teaching conditions vitiate their efforts and gravitate toward those which encourage them. The imposition of a rating system, particularly if it is less-than-well-vetted, will only accelerate the diminution of public school teaching and the exodus of its more able members. But, make no mistake about it, these two malignant processes- the diminution of teaching as a professional and the profession’s loss of many of its most able- began several decades ago as teacher efficacy declined as a function of the deteriorating quality of teaching conditions in many public schools.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 15th, 2012
4:26 pm
Tom Thomas-if you have not read Fulton’s charter or that 2017 Strategic Plan I urge you to do so. They gut academics and the digital emphasis makes using a tool the point of school. That’s called vocational for all. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/embrace-and-seize-technologys-potential-to-capture-the-hearts-and-minds-of-todays-students/ is from a Texas document that Cobb’s Super Michael Hinojosa is one of the signing Supers that make it clear that the digital focus is to limit what students can know or do. It’s part of what is known as the democratic purpose of schools and it is the antithesis of the transmission of knowledge.
Read the Cambridge Education report for your child’s school. They insist that the teachers are not to teach the content in every district they have been brought into-NYC, Tampa, Charlotte, and now Fulton.
And calling students customers in Fulton is some kind of a sick joke. The charter, the Strategic Plan, and the Cambridge Report add up to attaching a vacuum hose and trying to suck out any knowledge the students are lucky enough to gain from home. In fact at the Regionalism breakfast I was at Friday, a table mate acknowledged that Cobb and North Fulton had been expressly targeted as being unacceptably pushing academic excellence. I had figured it out from reading Gary Oldfield desired template involving the Regional ed vision. He said he had been in meetings where it was discussed and thought it was fascinating I could figure out the vision without being in the meetings.
So compare what Cambridge is mandating for those hundreds of thousands of dollars with any idea that this teacher eval is trying to see who is teaching the subject.
Centrist
October 15th, 2012
4:38 pm
I was with Dr. Spinks until he posted this obviously biased and wrong-headed opinion: “The imposition of a rating system … will only accelerate the diminution of public school teaching and the exodus of its more able members.”
Rating systems that are well vetted and not abused by administrators who have other agendas will find and reward the most able teachers. Blanket knee-jerk condemnation of teacher ratings is political rather than instructive.
Claudia Stucke
October 15th, 2012
4:51 pm
When I entered the teaching profession after more than thirty years in the private sector, I never quite adjusted to the idea of pay raises based solely on years of service (plus advanced degrees, if applicable) rather than on merit. Even though I came in early and stayed late (6:00 or later), ran after-school tutorials every day for kids who needed help, created my own assignments and detailed lesson plans (which I posted online, along with daily assignment updates, etc.), I got paid the same as (or less than) someone who showed up late and who sometimes beat the school buses out of the parking lot at 3:30, or the teacher who photocopied lesson plans and worksheets, which students filled out while the teacher read the paper or surfed the ‘net. (That comparison does not apply to my colleagues, who were all professionals and gave tirelessly of their time and effort. But we were all judged by the same standard throughout the county.) And don’t ask about the teachers whose online diploma-mill “doctorates” in “leadership” resulted in big pay increases. Fortunately, although these anomalies were annoying, I was not attracted to teaching by the salary; and at the risk of sounding like a Goody Two-Shoes, I have no regrets about the time I spent as a teacher. I’d do it again . . . and I’d still be there if I were twenty years younger and made of sterner stuff.
Evaluations usually consisted of arbitrary checklists–whether or not we had posted (1) recent copies of student work (with appropriate individual rubrics), (2) the standard we were supposed to be addressing that day–often dictated by a county supervisor, and (3) our daily lesson plans (and if it was Wednesday, we’d better be on the page we’d predicted we’d be on–a huge flaw in the evaluation process). Additionally, if our test scores were low, or if there was a disparity between our students’ grade averages and standardized test scores, we were given a “talking-to.” Through no fault of their own, the administrators in our school were simply carrying out the mandates of those above them–people who never darkened the doorways of our classrooms and who, I believe, had little understanding of what we did on a daily basis. My evaluations were always positive, but I don’t think that they reflected what I was really doing in the classroom or how or what my students were learning.
Are there people in the teaching profession who shouldn’t be there? Of course, just as there are in every profession. But to have unqualified or unmotivated teachers in the classroom is to risk students’ educations–public education, a cornerstone of democracy. (Sounds dramatic, I know–but I think we all want an educated populace.) We need teacher evaluations, but they need to be something other than an arbitrary checklist compiled by bureaucrats. Evaluations should be hands-on and in-person, and they should include feedback and follow-up–ball of which are costly and time-consuming. Time and money are in short supply in most school systems. Sometimes, I think, so is common sense.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 15th, 2012
4:58 pm
Centrist-the rating systems were created to be abused by the administrators. They were designed to get around the historic problem that interfered with previous attempts at radical national ed reforms in the 60s and 90s. Most of the profs who have created these ratings systems have ties either to Rand and its 1973-1978 Change Agent Study or, like Charlotte Danielson, were involved with Outcomes Based Education in the late 80s. Charlotte actually wrote the Implementation Handbook for OBE.
And it is the most talented teachers who are the most worried. They understand the nature of the Educational Leadership Degree and what these admins agreed to do in return for that magic credential and being referred to as “Doctor.” We have district math administrators, for example, who wrote their dissertations on math as a racist and sexist construct. They were credentialed to destroy academics in the classroom.
Centrist
October 15th, 2012
5:16 pm
@ Attentive Parent – Please read the post directly above yours from Claudia Stucke.
Did you follow the teacher strike in Chicago over the teacher evaluation issue that got watered down? Mediocrity and job security trumps finding,helping, and encouraging good teachers.
10:10 am
October 15th, 2012
5:20 pm
From the lead editorial in this week’s ECONOMIST magazine …”School reform and introducing choice is crucial: no Wall Street financier has done as much damage to American social mobility as the teachers’ unions have.”
ref: http://www.economist.com/node/21564556
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 15th, 2012
6:23 pm
Centrist-I read Claudia’s post. But these evals are not designed to eliminate the teachers she is concerned about. I am concerned about them as well. I am still trying to get over carpooling a group of students who were talking about the Language Arts teacher who liked to tell 7th grade students that he favorite thing to do when he husband was out of town was to sit on her sofa nude and eat peanut butter. She should not be in the classroom but that is not the purpose of these teacher evals.
They are designed to coerce the good teachers who want to teach their academic content. I am not inferring that purpose or guessing. I have those documents laying out the actual intentions.
I say Fulton’s charter is duplicitous and guts academics because it lays out the Transformational OBE template to a T. And I have a copy of Ray Budde’s 1988 presentation paid for by the federal DOE that fits Fulton’s charter. His work lays out using charters to contractually bind unsuspecting communities to gutting academics. When the inevitable protests arise, there is a contractual term of 5 or 10 years. Parents and taxpayers and students are supposed to be prevented from stopping it.
This is not a game of pinochle going on. We have school and district administrators pushing policies and practices that were created to take down the capitalist economic system of the US. Competence and OBE gut the division of labor that free markets rely on. Plus the affective orientation pushes the idea that the individual must give way to the group. The so-called Common Good.
Again I do not just think that. I have plenty of open declarations of intent. The only defense is that someone is an Inadvertant Insurrectionist and not an Intentional One. Of course that will not work for someone like Michael Hinojosa who signed his name to a document that is quite explicit on his intentions while he was a Super in Dallas.
The Teaching for Excellence profile that Fulton is imposing on teachers is from the co-creator of Transformational Outcomes Based Education. I do not think any administrator or principal should be requiring classroom practices implicated in the Columbine tragedy. I am not consoled that when you bring up Spence Rogers’ name, those teachers who have gone through the training react with the kind of devoted emotional response traditionally associated with cultish indoctrination.
The classroom is a terrible place to manipulate students’ feelings and fundamental values. Fulton is saying they will not reveal which teachers have gone through the “training” so they will not be intimidated to be innovative in the classroom.
Horrors.
Sam
October 15th, 2012
6:25 pm
How did Fulton county have a meeting at the Fox Theater but won’t give teachers a Cost-of-Living increase? Was the theater donated?
bootney farnsworth
October 15th, 2012
6:26 pm
@ Greg,
the reason most of us CAN’T go by our real names were clearly illustrated in the pieces Maureen attached. if we go public, we lose our jobs. we lose our jobs, we lose our professions due to the
intense nature of blackballing which occurs.
the reason people like Dr. John can be public is because they are too insulated to be harmed.
Charles Douglas Edwards
October 15th, 2012
6:27 pm
Teachers are the most valuable and important part of any educational system !!!
We need the most talented and dedicated teachers possible. It is one of the most honorable profession and good teachers are worth their weight in gold.
Based on my observations the best teachers are the ones who put students first and love trying to help educate people.
A good teacher legacy last for generations.
We hope and pray that the best, brightest and dedicated of our young people go into teaching profession.
bootney farnsworth
October 15th, 2012
6:31 pm
not that it matters, but once again….
we don’t object to evaluations, ratings, ect. we’ve said this before.
we just want them to be realistic, based on what actually happens in the classroom
and the severity our hands are tied by the Fran Millar crowd.
give us a seat at the table, let us be a part of the process. why is that too much to ask?
bootney farnsworth
October 15th, 2012
6:33 pm
parents complain about the “new math” yet want to use it on us.
amazing
bootney farnsworth
October 15th, 2012
6:47 pm
before it gets lost in the shuffle….
the state of education, in a nutshell.
-we’re among the lowest paid professionals, and you say we make too much.
-you tell us we can’t organize, but have no problem organizing against us.
-our management system is incompetent, but politically and racially protected.
-since management gets a pass from blame, we are at fault for management decisions
-we are the strawman for nearly every boogieman claim our local politicians need
-our pay is cut, but we are demanded to produce more – while being denied the tools we need to meet this demand.
-ruination of careers and lives is commonplace and pervasive.
-you call us babysitters, yet blame us if Johnny can’t read & write like Nick Sparks
-you allow incompetent management to run amok, and then lay off worker bees
-you place uncountable more value in your football team than you do in their instructors.
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 15th, 2012
6:51 pm
Sam-AT&T apparently picked up the tab for the Fox venue. It’s not like with hundreds of millions to be spent on “digital learning” and new devices like LCD projectors in each classroom we have to worry that there might be some type of commercial relationship between Fulton and AT&T.
Plus there is that component of the economic vision for a radically altered future where the tech companies and communications companies are being promised a Broadband for All global initiative through the UN and how the tech companies can collect the personal data necessary to shift to a manged state directed economy based on Sustainability.
No potential here for garnering revenues at public expense at all.
It is called a Dirigiste or Corporatist future economy for a reason.
crankee-yankee
October 15th, 2012
7:10 pm
A top-notch teacher in my building just turned in their retirement papers. Not because they wanted or needed to retire, but because they were fed up with the cr*p. So now we lose someone who could have mentored many new teachers over the next few years. Can we really afford to lose that kind of experience?
HamiltonAz
October 15th, 2012
7:51 pm
I saw my dentist the other day. When I sat in the chair, I told him, “if I have any cavities today, I’m holding you accountable.”
He looked strangely at me and said, “what?”
“I’m holding you accountable for my cavities, if I have any.” He finally got the thread and smiled.
But It’s not all that different. If the dentist sends me home with a toothbrush and floss and I don’t use it, should he be responsible for my poor dental report card?
When a teacher sends a child home with homework, it’s tantamount to a “prescription” for his education. If the parents don’t monitor the proper administration of this prescription, why should the teacher be accountable for the child’s poor educational health?
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
8:10 pm
centrist, you’re really projecting a lot of stuff. what you do not know is that evaluations can be written many different ways, from a sort of “endorsement” of the teacher, talking about the good points of the lesson, or they can be written like they’re trying to chop down a tree. Then the cumulative effect of evaluations can be treated different ways from “there’s something here we can build on” to “repeated problems – bad apple.” And whoever indicated that some districts use this thing called a “Professional Development Plan” (PDP) as a harassment tool and punishment too is correct. PDPs can be used to get people fired. In Georgia I have heard of entire schools or academic departments in a school – all of the teachers being put on a PDP, which is a very serious matter. It is collective punishment, not unlike the recent harsh move at the high school. Centrist, there is a lot of stuff you do not know and you are blowing soap bubbles.
The best idea I’ve seen in this discussion thread is having an uninvolved outside agency doing teacher evaluations and then providing feedback to the teachers. This would remove the political abuse, and there is a lot of it, more of it than not. It is really crazy how corrupted Georgia has become in this regard. Why is it so hard to innovate something so simple as this sensible / product method for evaluating people. It is like the state has become addicted to abusing people.
Ron F.
October 15th, 2012
8:16 pm
“Rating systems that are well vetted and not abused by administrators who have other agendas will find and reward the most able teachers.”
That will happen in some schools, where respected administrators are working. In some, it will become another tool to put teachers in their place and keep the thumb of authority pressed firmly upon them. The challenge to me is “well vetted.” At this point, everything coming down the line has been rushed, rife with flaws, and far too dependent on standardized tests for a large portion of the evaluation. We have to look beyond tests, as noted by the administration from ANCS in an earlier thread. Student learning is a complex process that needs more than a score on a single evaluation tool to properly calculate.
Ron F.
October 15th, 2012
8:17 pm
@bootney 6:47- Amen and keep preaching brother!!
Private Citizen
October 15th, 2012
8:20 pm
And another thing, citing propaganda articles and editorials from finance / investment magazines? You’re kidding, right? FYI, Pearson education, the UK multinational mega-corporation that directs your principals through the partnership with ASCD, owns the Financial Times newpaper, just thought I’d mention. When you keep saying how bad everything is, it is a reason to spend money. Like the “Homeland Security” fiasco fear fear fear = write a lot checks for equipment and training.
As someone quoted a couple of days ago in the excellent linked article about “Wonks” you have a lot of official sources and commentary from people who do not do the work or work in the field as researchers. And by researcher, I do not mean propagandists who are paid by lobby firms. Where’s the legitimacy?
Spedteacher
October 15th, 2012
8:41 pm
Yes hold me accountable for my students’ learning over the school year. Pre-test my class on the very first day of school and post test them at the end of the school year. That way I am being scored on how much my students learned the year I taught them, not the previous years’ of learning. That would be a fair and accountable way to judge my teaching. Most teachers want to be evaluated because it helps make us better at our skills as teachers. My method of obtaining test scores would show which teachers shine and which teachers don’t. Since you would be dealing with the same children to do the comparsion, it naturally takes into account the students’ background, reading level, math level, and all those other things that others have mentioned here. You would finally be comparing apples to apples.
Hey Teacher
October 15th, 2012
8:49 pm
Unfortunately most teacher evaluation systems are nothing but checklists. A “bad” teacher doesn’t put the standards on the board. A “bad” teacher doesn’t have a closing activity. A “bad” teacher left last year’s bulletin board up. The mediocre teachers learn to have the standards up, plan a closing activity, and change out the bulletin board every month but still can’t teach. When the administrators who are evaluating the teachers spent maybe 3 years in the classroom themselves, they don’t know what great teaching looks like but they can spot a new bulletin board. Sigh.
TeacherMom4
October 15th, 2012
9:08 pm
Hey Teacher is exactly right: window dressing is easily changed but does not change what is behind the window. My son’s kindergarten teacher has several students who came in without knowing their letters, yet she is supposed to have these kids reading by the end of the year. She will get them as far as she can, but over the summer they will lack stimulation and will return having lost learning by August. Extrapolate this over years and you have kids who are woefully far behind by the time they leave elementary school. These kids will become poster children of a “failing school system”. Nobody will ever try to pin it on their “parents”. Pre-k is free. There is no excuse for sending kids to school without the basics, but these are in our schools and their teachers are still held accountable for their lack of achievement even though they start their academic career 1-2 years behind at the get go.
Teacher Reader
October 15th, 2012
9:33 pm
I left teaching not because of evaluations, but because I was not able to teach in a way that I felt benefited the students and provided them with a solid education and foundation, as we were expected to teach to a test. I will never return to teaching until one can actually teach, have expectations of students that are similar to the ones that I have for myself, and give students grades and feedback that they have earned, rather than what will please the parent.
My personal favorite evaluations were the peer evaluations that we did in one Chicago school, where we observed each other and received ideas and gave ideas on how to be better.
Anyone not wanting to be evaluated needs to get a life and find a minimal wage job. Professionals should be evaluated on how well they do, and how well their students perform. No one likes to be evaluated, but they are necessary for personal improvement and keeping people at the top of their field. You wouldn’t go to a doctor who had poor outcomes on simple operations, why should children have to have teachers who simply aren’t fulfilling the job the that are paid for.
I am tired of hearing teachers whine about evaluations, and their pay. As a teacher you knew you wouldn’t be making Wall Street money, and if you don’t like it you should find a new job. If you don’t like to be evaluated on the performance of your job, than again, find a job where you aren’t evaluated. Life isn’t fair, get over yourself.
Keep praying that Charter Schools are easier to open in Georgia, as our public schools need competition to improve and teachers to understand what it’s like to have a contract from year to year, based on your performance and that of your students. No excuses!!!
Michele
October 15th, 2012
9:55 pm
The problem with poor teachers is the bureaucracy within the system where principals do not have the ability to fire poor teachers. In my 20 years as a teacher, I only know of one teacher who was fired. He had to openly cheat by giving students the answers to a test to get canned. Otherwise, there is no system for getting rid of poor performers, and we all know that every school has them. No one has the backbone to single out a poor performer, give them opportunities to improve, and follow up by firing those who make no positive changes. If this were the case, the system would purge the poor teachers. The evaluation system in schools is a total joke. No administrator can come into a class once a year for 30 minutes and determine who is a valuable and effective teacher.
Michele
October 15th, 2012
10:02 pm
Teacher Reader: I am right on board with you in regards to why you quit teaching. I retired early for exactly the same reason. I took a course in my county a few years ago based upon the book “Teach to Your Strengths.” The premise was based upon the fact that every teacher is unique with unique abilities to teach. I am one of those teachers, and I had been tremendously successful all my career. In the end, I fought the administration over how they “forced” me to teach cookie cutter, one size fits all fashion. I could not live and teach withing the constraints that were being forced on all schools and on all teachers. I never taught to a test, and I never will. Like you, I would consider returning to teaching only if I were given the autonomy to teach as I please while meeting the curriculum expectations. We are all different. We are all unique. Let teachers teach as they feel they best can.
Nikole
October 15th, 2012
10:07 pm
@ dc— I actually do have a better plan for assessing teachers but it takes more time and would probably require a new position of teacher evaluators, which we cannot afford in public education. It would include all details of my classroom, number of special needs, behavior disorders, etc. per and post test scores would have to show growth, my participation in extracurriculars and lots more.
another comment
October 15th, 2012
10:27 pm
Teachers have put themselves in much of their situation here in Georgia. They need to ask themselves how much worse has it been since you all decided to vote against Roy Barnes who limited the size of your classrooms to say 17 kids in Kindergarten and First grade. The largest classes were 25-28. Because you didn’t like that he proposed rating teacher’s and changing tenure. What has happened after 8 years with Sonny and Two years with Deal. Plus a Republican house and Senate. It is scary, but teachers you are the fools who voted against your own interests, against education. You voted for go fishing and Sonny’s get wealthy scheme. Then you followed it up by voting for Deal. Deal is going to make sure he has total control of the Lottery the biggest prize of all. Wake up Teacher’s stop voting R. It is not in your interests or in Educations interest.
The only way it will get better is to at least start voting in some of the better Democrates.
By the way AT&T has a sign for Hunter Hill in front of their AT&T buillding on Roswell Rd. in Sandy Springs. Luckily the owner of the property accross the street has put up a Doug Stoner Sign. If you don’t want to give total control of the House and Senate to the Republicans. Keep them from a Super Majority, vote against their gerrymandering to try to give themselves a Super Majority. Vote to re-elect Doug Stoner.
Ron F.
October 15th, 2012
10:44 pm
“Professionals should be evaluated on how well they do, and how well their students perform.”
Probably a good thing you left. You might fail an evaluation under the system currently being implemented in the state. While your basic premise is oversimplified, there is some truth. But let’s think about what “perform” means. It means a score on one test given at the end of the year and compared to last year’s score. Assuming all the kids come to school a reasonable number of days, are moderately healthy, and have some measure of stability at home, that might be fair. Those conditions are not controllable, and it’s not all parents’ fault. But life happens, and children are human beings who can, and often do, fail to learn at expected rates because of all manner of human events beyond anyone’s control. If we could control for all those conditions, then a simple comparison of test scores would accurately indicate growth. What about a child who misses a lot of days? What about a kid who has family problems that force moves and changes to his home life? What about the kid who tries drugs or gives up to be with a group of friends he desires? These are real issues. I had a child whose lexile score actually, according to longitudinal data, dropped 100 points in a year because his parents divorced and he missed 20+ days of school. The following year his score came up once his home life settled down. You can’t fairly evalute a teacher who cannot help those problems that reflect in a child’s academic performance. And it happens to a lot of them, as you should know.
I’m all for evaluation- I’m not the least bit afraid of it. But I want it to be broader based, using more than just a standardized test score to show what children have learned. There are reasonable methods for doing that, and they can work.
Finally, I didn’t go into teaching for the money. I do it because I love it, but I think it’s fair to expect that a master’s degree in a field that directly applies to my job should allow me to bring home a little more each month. Between furloughs and insurance increases, I bring home less than I did before the advanced degree. That’s reality and I’m dealing with it, but it doesn’t help the morale that I have a student loan payment AND a reduced paycheck to show for it.
Ron F.
October 15th, 2012
11:06 pm
@another: yeah, ol Roy looks a little, and I say a little, better in hindsight. He ticked off teachers in a bad way, and we inadvertently let loose the Kraacken on the state by siding with Sonny. The political tide was leaning to the Republicans anyway by the turn of the century, and I think we would have ended up with Sonny in office either way eventually. But Deal??!! What in this world were people thinking??!! Unfortunately, there hasn’t been a strong enough Democrat challenger, and we sorely need one soon!
Old Physics Teacher
October 15th, 2012
11:09 pm
dc,
Hahahaha, boy are you living in a dream world. That pay scale is current. My son-in-law gets paid more than that. Now, he is at the top of the scale, but the scale is current! The jobs are still there. I talk to trainers quite a bit. I accidently took a course with them once, and went out to supper with them ONCE. I couldn’t afford to hang around with them. They stayed at the most expensive motels/hotels and ate at expensive resturants, and they were on an expense account, and their companies paid for their tuition. What you are forgetting is that average pay accounts for the wad of rookies who work for 1-3 years and can’t cut the pressure. The ones that stick get paid quite well.
I also worked retail. Current pay for my old position there is well over $100 k if you’re not in a rural area. I quit it simply because the hours were so tough. Not the long hours. I rarely worked over 60 per week. It was simply that I had to be available 24/7 when problems occured. And they always occurred.
When I get really depressed, I check the want-ads to see what I would be making if I hadn’t quit.
Just because the facts don’t fit your world-view, doesn’t mean you get to ignore them. The facts are quite simple: FACT 1: evolution is TRUE, however there are no new organs in the human body and the speed of neural synapse has not increased in thousands of years. Corollary 1: The bright kids of the 50’s and 60’s are no different than the kids of today. Today’s kids are just as smart just as smart. The difference is far more of the average and below-average atudents are staying in school longer. They used to quit and get jobs and start families . Now the jobs they used to do don’t exist anymore. Machinery now does those jobs. Fact 2: School Administrators told the public and politicians the education profession could fix this if we were given more money. Fact 3: The public bought this “pie-in-the-sky” hook, line, and sinker. Fact 4: The politicians re-wrote laws to require us to “provide a free and appropriate education” to every living soul in our nation. Even 17 year-olds who still wear diapers. Fact 5: We can’t! Fact 6: The politicians now are holding our feet to the fire. Conclusion: Since our bosses said we could fix this problem, surely bosses can’t be wrong? If the bosses aren’t wrong, then it’s the teachers’ fault. QED.
Don’t get me wrong. I love teaching. I really don’t mind (too much) about the little pay, and if I was working for accalades… well, I wouldn’t be worth what I’m being paid. What I’m upset about is the incessant claims that we are being overpaid and getting 3 months off. That statement alone shows YOUR ignorance. We sign a 10 month contract. We only get 2 months off. If you can do the math, that’s 8 weeks. One of my offspring works for”the evil empire” and gets 8 weeks off a year off ,and he’s been with them less than 3 years. Lawyers get more time off than we do and get paid quite a bit more! And this is the first year I don’t have to go BACK to college during the summer and lose even that time off. The state of Georgia while they were… well… dumping on us about our pay, alowed us to skip this requirement for the next 4 years. Thanks a lot, politicians, for not shafting us more than you did. Please may I have another?
Oh and about the “poor job” we’re doing? I know figures don’t lie, but liars do figure. We, the teachers in the USA, do the best job of teaching in the world. The “problem” is that we teach everyone that come in the door and hold them (and us) to the highest standard in the world. That’s not true for the rest of the world. Everybody other nation tells the parents and children what schooling they will be given.
Old Physics Teacher
October 15th, 2012
11:25 pm
Centrist,
Most of us do not mind evaluations if we’re evaluated by qualified people. I’ve spent as many years in the private sector as I have the public sector. High-quality teachers are NEVER promoted. They’re not for a simple reason. Administrators are similar to parents of a bunch of 3-year-olds. They don’t want fairness; they want QUIET. High quality teachers would attempt to fix the problems. No administrator wants to fix problems. The way to fix educational problems is how they’re fixed in the real world. Someone gets fired! If the purchasing agent buys inferior supplies, he gets fired. If parents produce children who will not attempt to learn, you can’t fire the parents. The administrator who said at a board meeting, “The reason we didn’t make AYP is because we have a lot of stupid children this year! All our smart kids graduated last year.” would be fired. Administrators know if they make a decision, 50% of the population would be angry. Therefore, they don’t do anything. Like the pitcher facing Babe Ruth, if he doesn’t throw the ball, a home run doesn’t get hit. He figures if he waits long enough, maybe Babe will get a phone call, and he won’t have to pitch to him.
In short, if I try to “fix” problems in my classroom, I’ll tickoff the “powers that be.” That will get me poor evaluation. If I keep my head down and just take my whuppin,’ the administrators will go after someone else.
Oh, and by the way, Administrator’s tenure was revoked many, many, many years ago. How’s that workin’ out? And in ending (far too late
), qualified administrator is an oxymoron.
RAMZAD
October 15th, 2012
11:34 pm
It seems to me the measuring the effectiveness of teachers and schools is not about all that VAM, and metrics that show this for that but not for these and sometimes only for those. Are our young people graduating college ready from high schools? Are they able to articulate a thought for ten minutes in front of a group of people? Can they research and write a five paged bibliographic paper about Richmond, VA in the Civil War? Are they literate to solve important problems of college algebra? Can they read an article and come back with answers for the central argument that the piece makes? We know what these young people are supposed to be able to do after they leave high school. Why are we making it hard? Why should we not hold educators at least partially accountable for how their students come out?
status quo must go
October 16th, 2012
12:29 am
Schools exist to serve students, not the interests of teachers or administrators. Choose and evaluation system and throw a safety net behind it. If the system is numbers based, then set up a job retraining program for the folks who show up as ineffective according to the numbers. If they are truly effective, this will become very clear during the retraining sessions. Throw them back into the system. In fact, take it one step further: give them a raise. It will also become very clear during the retraining program who is hopelessly ineffective. That’s easy: can them. As for the pack that lands in between: throw them back into the system, but take note to can them if more effective teachers emerge. Just, please, stop protecting the interests of the adults above those of the students. It is not like this is solely a problem in public schools. It exists in private schools, too. Those who are competent don’t really worry about looking over their shoulder.
Another angle
October 16th, 2012
8:21 am
Why not test the teachers instead of the students? A multiple multiple-choice test would seem to work quite well. It allows for deliberate questions and sophisticated, multi-faceted answers. The test can explore subject matter knowledge, situational analysis, breadth and depth of the teaching skillset, etc. while this may not prove the best choice for determining who is effective versus highly effective, it certainly seems it would make clear who is ineffective.
Private Citizen
October 16th, 2012
8:47 am
Old Physics Teacher tells it. In some school houses they march the kids around and then treat the teachers like they’re the kids.
A lot of comments about basing review on score performance, pre-test, post-test. This is a nice idea but I think it is a fiction happening on this discussion thread. My experience is deliver the high scores and no one says a word. I mean nothing. I mean radio silence. I mean go the extra miles and get the real results and the results are in and everyone is happy, the only ones who are not happy are the administrators who do your work evaluation. I know that sounds completely crazy but that is the reality I know of in Georgia. It is way confusing, like playing marginalization chess game for adults. Its not my game and I do not even want to spend the time learning the moves. One reason I hope the charter amendment passes is so that teachers will have more choice in where to work, choice in employers. I really do not care about contracts and tenure. I care more about active harassment in the workplace from the organized crime that is making twice your rate of pay and doing about 20 different things that do not make much sense and act like it is there religion and when they (the bosses) come and talk to you, they’re like a crazy person with soap bubbles coming out of their ears, they’re trying to cover their game from so many different sides. Old Physics Teacher tells it different than me, but he tells it maybe a little more direct.
rthomson
October 16th, 2012
8:59 am
Michael Goike, you obviuosly know absolutely nothing about the teaching profession. The fact that you suggest that TEACHERS be responsible for all that kids do to achieve without parent support or outside factors show how ignorant you really are!! peopl like you need to just clam up and listen to those who are knowledgeable about education.
pride and joy
October 16th, 2012
10:07 am
Good teachers aren’t afraid of being evaluated by their students’ scores.
Bad ones are scared and they should be.
Maude
October 16th, 2012
10:52 am
A quick question for pride and joy:
Teachers I know would not be afraid of being evalulated by their students’ scores if they had studentsthat: students arrive in the class working on grade level, students came to school prepared and ready to learn, had parents who valued education, had an avenue to get “special needs and behavior problems” removed from the regular class and placed in an enviroment where they can learn, were allowed to teach based on the needs of their students instead of what the higher ups tell them to teach and now teachers are told how to teach even if the method does not work with their students, the list could go on and on but my lunch break is over. I am so tired of people bashing teachers. Try to walk a day in the shoes of a teacher, deal with the behavior problems, students that cannot stay awake in class, students that could care less about school, irrate parents, the piles of paperwork and a boss that does not support you. No take that back I think a half day in the shoes of a teacher will probally be more than most of these teacher bashers can take.
d
October 16th, 2012
11:47 am
I am afraid of being evaluated based on the scores of students who take the test and then tell me “I didn’t really care, so I just put down whatever.” That was a direct quote from one of my students on Friday in regards to a county-issued standardized test. Should I not worry?
Private Citizen
October 16th, 2012
1:02 pm
I’m just going to say this. I was on a teaching team that got very high results. Astronomical high results. Results that lifer career teachers pause and say they’ve never seen that before. This is in a highly diverse student group, not some whitey collective. The reason we got these results is that each teacher on the team was experienced and had specific training in their fields/ degrees and worked the entire year with these students working through their problems, supporting them in their crises and problems and behavior and working thoroughly with parents, some of whom were very challenging but also clear in their demands and expectations for their children’s success. When the year end scores arrived, we had accomplished something that no one had seen before, each of the students performed highly on all of the subject areas. And let me repeat this is with a diverse group of kids and there was no white-centrism as is often scapegoated. The result to the team, for us as professionals, is that no building administrator even mentioned our success to us. No main office person recognized us in any positive way. What happened is that the team was split up and half the team was put in other teaching assignments. This was particularly jarring at the year end because not only had we briefly realized our success and the results of our insight, dedication and work, we knew how to work together as a team.
My conclusion is that there is some kind of force or mode or initiative to destroy the top tier of performance in the Georgia public schools. Race may be used as justification for “leveling” but in this case, this representative and racially diverse group of students was getting preparation for success college and otherwise and beyond after their brief time in the public schools.
Private Citizen
October 16th, 2012
1:16 pm
The management rationale seems to be to take the high performing teachers and knock them down back to size and put them with the rough kids to do their wunder-work, but the problem is this creates a mismatch. Different demographic groups require different teaching strategies and it is not something you can invent overnight. It is well known that especially urban kids resonate in their comfort zone. You can take a college-prep type teacher and put them in the general ed. group with a bunch of the “I don’t care” students. No problem. But you can not take a medium level teacher and expect them to teach college-prep to the top kids. It is a misapplication of resources to move and root staff around with these methods. What I have seen is that every year half the staff in the building is moved and re-assigned in some game of musical chairs to re-invent the wheel.
In my own experience as a student K-12, three schools, there was virtually no teacher displacement, non, that I witnessed. The same teachers taught the same classes / subject material. That is probably the only way they could be any good at it, keeping one post and refining their methods, much less having any process and quality of life personally.
Fled
October 16th, 2012
3:45 pm
The irony in this of course is that as the right-wingers drive off the good teachers, it is their children who suffer. In the end, those teachers who have any other choice leave the state or the country in search of a place where they can do what they feel called to do.
I am an excellent teacher, and I would never come back to Georgia. Go ahead and use whatever tactic you want to dispirit the remaining teachers, but keep in mind that your children end up less educated because of what you are doing. Keep on writing your postings about how teachers are lazy and stupid, and then send your children to people who are willing to accept that kind of abuse. Charter schools are not going to give you what you think you will get (which seems to be a private school education without tuition) because they will not be able to recruit and maintain the teachers they would need to be successful.
About the only thing I have in common with the right-wingers is that I would never send my children to public school in Georgia. Not under any circumstances. I went to parent night at my children’s school this week, and every teacher was excellent. They know they have a good thing, so they want to work hard to get to keep it. They are honest about my children’s strengths and weaknesses, and if I don’t like what I hear I can take them elsewhere any day. There is a long waiting list for open spots.
I cannot embarrass, belittle, or insult the teachers, though they are glad to work with me on behalf of my children. These teachers are the cream, and I understand from the Headmaster that the school received an average of 200 applications from excellent teachers for every opening.
Meanwhile, many of you seem to want to do all you can to make sure that good teachers stay as far away as possible. It is a crazy, self-destructive, and self-defeating strategy, and somehow I think that is what you like about it. Bon chance.
Calka
October 16th, 2012
7:47 pm
Example of teacher evaluations from Nashville:
World Languages do not have EOCTs. So the evaluation of a World Language teacher is comprised of the EOCT average of the English department and the entire school. Yeah, great way to evaluate the individual performance of the World Language teachers! You better work for a good school!
Ron
October 16th, 2012
9:16 pm
Teaching has become a madhouse, what with all the administrative goals and demands layered on to the already challenging task of educating our kids. Everyone says improvement is needed, but where does it stop? Nowadays, only Superman would do well on a teacher appraisal. Everyone else will be run into the ground for sure.
One Teacher's Voice
October 16th, 2012
10:45 pm
“Use my real name…”
If I write anything that is contrary to the thoughts of the powers that be, I risk my job.
And school systems rarely fire teachers; they hold the teacher’s evaluation over their head to encourage them to quit.
….Why?
Because they don’t want to pay unemployment or to deal with the arbitration process that teachers would have if terminated.
And for those who are not in the education field, if teachers get a failing evaluation, they have to put that failing evaluation on every job application. It’s the end of the career.
No teacher can feel comfortable speaking out because teachers can get a failing evaluation for simply disagreeing with the administration.
“Change jobs then….”
Many years of teaching with $40,000 invested in a degree that is specific to one field doesn’t really permit me to change directions at this late point in my life.
I love what I do, but that passion is waning, not because of kids, but because of what the powers at be are doing to the profession.
Dondee
October 17th, 2012
12:28 am
@bootney I also like how we should differentiate for all students, but the instrument we are evaluated on is not differentiated for us as different people and that even though we should differentiate, we also area all teaching the same thing/same way/same time.