Charter schools amendment: It is “T-SPLOST of education.”
The print AJC ran a pro/con today on the charter schools amendment. The pro was the essay I posted last week by Virginia Galloway. Here is the con by local businessman Sean Murphy. (Later today, I will post a piece by two Georgia legislators in support of the amendment, Jan Jones and Alisha Thomas Morgan.)
By Sean Murphy:
I am a successful metro Atlanta business entrepreneur. My political preferences are irrelevant because Amendment 1 on the Nov. 6 ballot is opposed by people in all parties.
As a businessman and a parent, I oppose Amendment 1 – the school issue – because despite what the charter school association and the “families” for schools tell you, the reality is that Amendment 1 is about trust and truth.
The ballot question should ask whether you want your local school board, for whom you can vote, to make decisions about your schools; or do you want a small group of appointed people accountable to no one to make those decisions? There is not one thing in the enabling legislation that requires parental involvement so there is nothing local about it, particularly when you see all the out of state corporations paying to persuade you to vote yes.
Folks, this is not about charter schools. It is not about choice. We already have both. This is about truth and trust.
There’s a lot of misinformation – and misunderstanding – about this Nov. 6 ballot amendment, the T-SPLOST of Education.
Georgia has more than 200 charter schools. More are in the pipeline. Like all schools, some are good, some need improvement.
According to the Georgia Department of Education’s Charter Schools Annual Report, charter school students do not exceed other public school children’s performance. Said their report: “Over the past five years, the overall performance of charter schools compared to traditional public schools has been mixed but both groups have traditionally demonstrated the same general performance trends.”
If the amendment isn’t about charter schools, what then are the issues?
Accountability, your tax dollars, and expansion of state government. Trust and truth.
•Accountability: Rather than local school boards’ accountability to the voter, a state appointed group of seven people will be empowered to create a separate system of schools. Although they will use your tax dollars for funding, they are not elected; if you don’t like what they do, you can’t vote them out. Unchecked power will be in the hands of this small, politically appointed group that will decide how and where schools operate.
•Your tax dollars: Taxpayer dollars – yours – allocated to public schools will be siphoned off to pay for these “new schools” and the for-profit companies that manage them. In other states – look no farther than Florida for evidence – corporate profits are the overriding goal of the charter school movement, not education.
Some charter operators in Florida have been indicted. Others pay no property taxes. But rest assured, they contribute heavily to state legislators’ campaigns. None of us can afford a dual school system answering to no one. Even state school Superintendent Dr. John Barge said we can’t afford it and that charter schools are being approved routinely by both local school boards and state board of education.
•Expansion of state government: We recently voted for or against a penny sales tax to fund transportation. In many regions, it failed. The main reason given? Distrust of government. If you distrust government to build or improve roads, do you want to expand its power with unchecked authority over schools?
The ballot question has been written blandly to mask the true intent and the true beneficiaries. It reads: Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?
Sounds logical, but unless we vote “no,” here’s the reality check: Budget cuts to our schools, larger classes, shortened school years, teacher furloughs and layoffs.
In most Georgia counties, schools are our largest employer. This is a serious economic impact in our communities.
Know the facts before you vote:
•This is not about charter schools or choice. It is about who chooses and who approves applications.
•Parents already have choices – magnet, public, private, home and charter schools.
Is the amendment even needed? As the old adage goes, follow the money.
Those who favor expanded state government, lack of accountability and a separate, unequal, dual school system are spending millions for your “yes” vote. They call themselves Families for Better Schools or Parents for School Choice. Don’t be deceived. Several out-of-state political action committees are behind this. Visit www.votesmartgeorgia.com to understand the real “families” and the real issues.
Truth and trust. Get the facts before you vote on Nov. 6.
–From Maureen Downey for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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102 comments Add your comment
Attentive Parent/Invisible Serfs Collar
October 1st, 2012
10:33 am
I would argue that there is in fact no choice in Georgia given the tremendous power SACS has to determine what goes on in education. They dictate policy and practices to elected school board officials. What guides their accreditation standards that I have copies of appears to be gutting academics and pursuing a rather nebulous political theory called the “democratic purpose of schools.”
Maureen-I have asked this question several times at education breakfasts and lunches and just general meetings. I am being told that the nature of the Charter Approval process by the state will make these charters independent of SACS authority. Can you please verify that for the record?
DeKalb Dad
October 1st, 2012
10:34 am
” There is not one thing in the enabling legislation that requires parental involvement”: False. Every child attending a state commission charter school must choose to enroll their child. This “requires parental involvement” unlike traditional public schools which only require submission to commands of educrats.
H J
October 1st, 2012
10:37 am
The arrogance of you anti-charter ppl is amazing. You’ve failed in every sense of the word as it pertains for public education yet you look down your noses at anyone who who has a different plan to move us forward. It genuinely inst about education with you, it’s about money, power and politics. You’re not going to intimidate me or my family with your name calling, race baiting tactics to keep your power. YOU ARE RUINING the next generation and you will not win.
Maureen Downey
October 1st, 2012
10:44 am
@Attentive, My understanding is that state approved charters will not be under SACS, unless they voluntarily choose to put themselves there.
Maureen
indigo
October 1st, 2012
10:46 am
If this is about “trust and truth” from our politicians, then I am definitely voting NO.
itsbrokeletsfixit
October 1st, 2012
10:48 am
Hooray for Sean Murphy,
He and School Superintendent John Barge have got it right. Galloway implies that Charter Schools only come from this State Commission but that just ain’t so. Local school boards can and do approve charter schools (over 200 of them) after a LOCAL board review. The state commission is just an effort by the sour grapes folks to refuse acceptance of the local board decision. If you believe in limited government and local control (ie. true conservative principles) you will vote against this ammendment. Galloway’s pleadings that it ain’t so is like the old time snake oil salesmen who tried to sell you a potion that could cure everything. If you don’t like the local school board’s decision, work in your local community to change it or elect other leadership. A new state commision WILL increase state bureaucracy, destroy local control of government and steal money from our children. It WILL NOT improve education! It is certainly true that our public schools need fixing, but the charter school amendment will just make it worse. And, sadly, will enrich the for profit snake oil salesmen who prey on desparate parents who just want a quick fix for their children’s education.
DeKalb Dad
October 1st, 2012
11:01 am
“According to the Georgia Department of Education’s Charter Schools Annual Report, charter school students do not exceed other public school children’s performance. Said their report: ‘Over the past five years, the overall performance of charter schools compared to traditional public schools has been mixed but both groups have traditionally demonstrated the same general performance trends.’”
Oh, you mean the Ga DOE run by John Barge, the champion of incompetent school boards across the state, put out these statistics. First, a better comparison would be State Commission charter schools versus the districts those charter schools serve. http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/09/24/the-real-statistics-for-georgias-charter-schools/
Second, even that comparison is inadequate because it disfavors schools like Ivey Prep Kirkwood with an attendance zone of the entire county but drawing from schools that fail to meet AYP. The best comparison would be the schools that students are actually zoned for versus the State Commission schools actually attended. Of course this comparison is done by individual parents who send their children to State Commission charter schools. Even State Commission schools with substandard performance deserve to be compared on the same basis that parents deciding to enroll their students make. Of course its easier to compare all charters, including the majority of those approved by local BOE’s, to all traditional public schools, including those in affluent communities, because that result supports Barge and his masters’ ends.
Maureen,
Why have you not written about the difference in statistics? Is it just easier to republish the anti-charter propaganda without any critical commentary or do you feel that it might undermine the ostensible rationale for your opposition to the amendment?
cricket
October 1st, 2012
11:05 am
quote:
“My understanding is that state approved charters will not be under SACS”
Interesting. If the charter schools don’t need to bow down to SACS, then why do the regular public schools? In my opinion, SACS is one of the biggest problematic forces in public education. They pretty much keep local school boards from truly representing their constituents.
Jaynie
October 1st, 2012
11:05 am
I will vote NO on this amendment. I do not want my tax money spent in schools that have no oversight other than a bunch of politcial appointees, answerable to no one but their state government buddies. In response to HJ, there are already acceptable alternatives if you don’t like your local public school. There is also a process in place to go to the state Board of Education if the local school boad does not approve a charter school and the LOCAL parents still want a charter school. Just because others do not agree with you does not make us arrogant nor ignorant. You should vote the way your conscience tells you to vote. Others should do the same without name calling.
BT
October 1st, 2012
11:06 am
The blond haired version is this, they want to take state funding away from public schools to fund STATE CHARTER schools. Parents are confused because they see funding for charter schools and think my childs local charter school will get more funding and this is not the case. This amendement is for STATE CHARTER schools and not LOCAL CHARTER schools. They want to privitize these SC schools
itsbrokeletsfixit
October 1st, 2012
11:06 am
@Dekalb Dad: pay attention to Murphy’s comments about your tax dollars. This charter school movement is not a panacea for education, it is about millions of taxpayer dollars being siphoned into private corporations. These private charter operators just want to get into your pocketbook, they don’t care about your children. It’s the “Dr. Porter’s Amazing Antiseptic Healing Oil” for education. “Guaranteed to solve all your education problems and provide your child with the best possible education”. Our public education system is broken. The charter school ammendment won’t fix it. Passing the ammendment will make it worse.
Maureen Downey
October 1st, 2012
11:07 am
@DeKalb Dad, With respect to Kyle, I have to note that many traditional public schools in Georgia would fare much better if they, too, were compared to only certain schools. There are many other schools in Georgia besides the state charter commission schools that would fare better if comparison foundations changed or became more nuanced.
For example, if you pull out the performance of white students on standardized testing, including the SAT, guess what happens? Atlanta Public Schools emerge among the very top in the state.
In Georgia, we judge all the schools — standard public and charter — by the same measures. This notion that we ought to create more selective comparisons is fine, but let’s do it for all schools.
In the meantime, the state has historically applied a wide brush to how it rates every school in the state. You can create narrower categories in which some charters will fare better, but so will many other schools.
Maureen
Jerry Eads
October 1st, 2012
11:10 am
SMALL representative government is generally a good thing. Small NONrepresentative government is a different matter. I will be forever mystified – other than understanding the truism “follow the money” – how elected representatives supposedly supportive of representative government would be so fanatical about gaining centralized and quite nonrepresentative control over ANY public entity. (How about charter police?) Are these people interested in OUR kids or are they simply setting the stage for the privileged few? Will P.T. Barnum be proven correct again?
AlreadySheared
October 1st, 2012
11:10 am
Once again, just let the dollars follow the kid; trust parents to do the right thing.
Imagine how bleeped college education would be in this country if, in order to attend a state college, students had to attend their closest state college.
Oops, that would mean VOUCHERS! God forbid!!!
Maureen Downey
October 1st, 2012
11:12 am
@To all,
Old timer
October 1st, 2012
11:15 am
I am a supporter of charter schools and school choice….BUT I am not in favor of amending our state constitution to create more government bureauray. I think we can do this with the state board being the appeals process. Also, if voters choose school board members that would be open to new ideas instead of the fighting and theatrics we see now we can improve the schools …and face it…they do need improving.
Corro'll Driskell
October 1st, 2012
11:17 am
Accountability for the use of tax payers dollars is paramount here. So it really doesn’t matter the side of the fence that you support, we can’t afford to allow gov’t officials nor corporations to manage our monies without oversight.
itsbrokeletsfixit
October 1st, 2012
11:24 am
@ DeKalb Dad: I see you have bought the snake oil and are no longer interested in the facts. Hope you don’t really have to take it.
RAMZAD
October 1st, 2012
11:26 am
I am beginning to suspect that those who oppose the State commissioned charter school amendment are terrified that this will change the prevailing dynamic of traditional public schools where white students matriculate to college and minorities matriculate to prison.
Local school administrations geniuses have the lasers to zoom in on certain minorities for harassment, discouragement, punitive diatribes, despair and drop out, but the State apparatus would not have that, because the State is the plantation boss for equal opportunity and plurality about outcomes. The academic prejudice between Cobb and DeKalb would start to disappear,
and the State would demand that everybody does well in school…or else…..
All of a sudden this Commission is going to become the State police for public education and boss hog sheriff, the local school board crocodile, with his mean and racist disposition is going to be a side show.
“Trust” and truth means trust that we can continue to have segregation in good public schools, and “truth” means truth that local school officials can continue to hound out minorities to jail cells and the violent warehouses that are their majority schools.
DeKalb Dad
October 1st, 2012
11:31 am
Accountablility: no state commission school will draw a dime unless parents actively choose to enroll their children.
Your tax dollars: the state commission charter schools will use less money per student that all but 5 of the poorest districts in the state.
Expansion of state govt: how is allowing schools run by non-government local non-profits who themselves decide whether or NOT to hire an EMO versus continuing to funnel money to non-accountable bureaucracies expansion of state government? Nancy Jester is insightful on the difficulty of overcoming an entrenched bureaucracy. http://dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/30/charter-schools-place-artisans-in-the-classroom/
itsbrokeletsfixit
October 1st, 2012
11:32 am
Maureen,
Why are my responses to DeKalb Dad being cut out??????
John Konop
October 1st, 2012
11:34 am
DeKalb Dad,
In all due respect the study would not make it out of a basic research methods class anyways. You cannot compare the performance to a public school to the performance of a charter school and conclude anything of substance. A proper study would look at the performance of students who left public schools against any difference via improvement from going to a charter school, normalized by the fact they are older. Most of the studies I have seen from both sides are more self serving propaganda, than a study that would meet basic research standards.
With that said the two biggest factors of success is IQ and parental involvement. On the parental involvement, you would think Charter parents have a higher level than the average public school parent. And that should give charter schools an edge against public schools. But once again, that should be a study based on the above not some spin………………..
teacher&mom
October 1st, 2012
11:35 am
Anyone following the Charter school drama in St. Augustine, FL?
For those who support Amendment 1, please research what almost happened in St. Augustine…one of the best school districts in FL.
If Amendment 1 passes and a similar situation arises in GA, would the charters be approved by the state charter commission? Would a top district be forced to accept charter applications?
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-09-10/charter-operators-wont-say-where-they-will-locate-schools-county
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-09-25/tampa-charter-school-withdraws
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-09-24/miami-charter-schools-withdraw
dc
October 1st, 2012
11:36 am
Watching the Gwinnett county school system “eliminate” the predominantly minority Ivy Prep is what clinched it for me…I’m enthusiastically voting yes. It’s clear that the local school boards view charters as simply taking money away from their control. Sadly, it’s become way more about their control of the money, and less about educating kids.
Kids who are poor, and want to learn, have GOT TO get more alternatives. They are being dragged down by the other kids in the local public schools, and thus consigned to a life of poverty. The cycle must be broken, and it’s clear that the current local public school boards and systems can’t break it.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 1st, 2012
11:38 am
HOPE scholarship is tied to SACS or GAC accreditation. All public schools (traditional and charter) are certified by one or the other.
Maureen Downey
October 1st, 2012
11:41 am
@Itsbroke, There are no comments by you in either spam or filter.
Maureen
Rick L in ATL
October 1st, 2012
11:42 am
Sometimes you vote people into office expecting hope and change and you get something very different. Look at the people we elected in APS, in DeKalb, in Clayton–just to name three very close-to-home examples–and tell me that we should be stuck entrusting thoroughly mediocre people to make critical decisions involving a central responsibility of parenting–providing a child’s education–without any practical, direct avenue of appeal just because they’re “elected officials.” That’s a tough sell. Sorry. Voting yes.
Sure, it’s an expense we shouldn’t have to bear. But the GA Supreme Court’s laughable ruling made this necessary. Senility or political activism by judges–who can be sure, in this case?– can be expensive.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 1st, 2012
11:49 am
Segregated Charter Schools?
There are two Ivy Prep schools in South DeKalb that reflect the 99% minority population.
Question
Given the blind lottery to get into a charter school, how does a charter school segregate its population? Given a choice (like charter schools), is it possible that people self segregate?
jarvis
October 1st, 2012
12:04 pm
@RAMZAD, you think we “non-minorities” care way more about you than we do. The plight or success of you is not paramount in my life. Put another way, I don’t care….certainly not enough to make an effort to hold you down.
Batgirl
October 1st, 2012
12:10 pm
@Already Sheared, comparing college to K-12 education does not make sense to me. College is not mandatory and, even though many colleges receive support from taxes, students/parents still have to pay large sums to attend. This is not the case with K-12.
While this is not the topic at hand, some of you charter school supporters should ask yourselves what kind of people will want to work in charters. My understanding is that charter school teachers will not be part of the Teacher Retirement System, and I’ve heard of teaching jobs in Florida charters that require master’s degrees but pay only $15/hour. Most of us aren’t in teaching for the money, but we still want crazy things like food and shelter.
bu2
October 1st, 2012
12:17 pm
The writer doesn’t seem to understand we already have a dual system that’s pretty much accountable to noone. Its called the University System of Georgia-Albany St. and Darton, Savannah St. and Armstron Atlantic, Ft. Valley St. and Macon St. We pay for 2 systems because white and black people in Central and South Georgia don’t want to go to school together.
concernedmom30329
October 1st, 2012
12:20 pm
DeKalb Dad,
Have you even run the numbers? I am not at all convinced that anyone wanting to charter anything but a virtual school could make it work on the numbers, at least in metro Atlanta.
The lowest five districts in GA are probably very low — possibly nothing but state funding and a little bit else. Guessing in the 5K range.
catlady
October 1st, 2012
12:31 pm
A good rule of thumb for voters in this state is vote NO, as any constitutional amendment seeks to absolve some people of their share of taxes or responsibility, and “reward” the politically connected. The convoluted language is a tell, also.
Two influential House members urge support of charter amendment | Get Schooled
October 1st, 2012
12:33 pm
[...] the pair wrote in favor the November amendment: (For another view on the constitutional amendment, please see column I posted earlier.) By Jan Jones and Alisha Thomas [...]
yuzeyurbrane
October 1st, 2012
12:34 pm
Vote no on “C (Charter)-Splost”
Centrist
October 1st, 2012
12:35 pm
I understand the Charter School Amendment issue is huge for this blog. But since it is certain to pass (based on numerous polls), why not focus more on how to make it work better instead of tilting at windmills further debating the pro and con at this point? Lightening is not going to strike and reverse the large in favor majority opinion in the next month.
Sure there will be time for that after the election, but why further electrify and harden polar differences of this issue?
Dr. Monica Henson
October 1st, 2012
12:45 pm
Maureen is correct about SACS. Any school or district that seeks accreditation via SACS or any other accrediting body does so on a voluntary basis.
mountain man
October 1st, 2012
12:46 pm
“Charter schools amendment: It is “T-SPLOST of education.””
No, it is NOT the T-SPLOST of education. No one ever promised to create a charter school with tax money and it would end on a certain date and then keep the taxes on. They are not asking for money for one purpose (untie the freeways) and then using for another purpose (MARTA and airports). These are apples and oranges and that is why the majority will vote YES in November.
mountain man
October 1st, 2012
12:53 pm
“My understanding is that charter school teachers will not be part of the Teacher Retirement System, and I’ve heard of teaching jobs in Florida charters that require master’s degrees but pay only $15/hour.”
If the teachers are not part of the TRS then they will have Social Security. One replaces the other.
A teacher might very well take $15 an hour rather than $30 an hour and have to put up with assault, and all the other things that go on in public school.
what's best for kids???
October 1st, 2012
12:58 pm
If the vote is yes, I will move my children to the charter school.
I hope the vote is no, though, as we need seven people at the capitol accountable to no one lie we need a hole in the head.
what's best for kids???
October 1st, 2012
12:58 pm
I should say, I will move my children to A charter school.
Gerald
October 1st, 2012
1:01 pm
Maureen:
On one hand, you have people who believe that public schools are for educating people. On the other, you have people who believe that public schools are for addressing social ills. So, when public schools massively fail to educate certain populations, the folks who are primarily about addressing social ills want to continue things as they were despite those failures, because their primary agenda is social, not educational anyway. Meanwhile, people who primarily want improved (or adequate) education performance aren’t committed to any particular public school model or ideology.
Here is the rub. Those who wish to use public schools to fix society believe that public schools can educate poorly disciplined, unmotivated children, or should at least try. Because that is – tada – fixing society, especially considering that poorly disciplined unmotivated children tend to be disproportionately represented in certain socioeconomic and demographic groups. Those who are primarily interested in improving education have the belief – based on empirical evidence and experiences – that given limitations on resources, educating kids who are poorly motivated and disciplined is not realistic, and trying to do so impedes the ability to educate children that are motivated and/or disciplined. They also believe that the biggest victims of the “try to educate everyone” ideology is motivated/discipline children who have the misfortune of being stuck in schools with a large (majority) population that is unmotivated and undisciplined.
If your goal is to remake society, then you are willing to sacrifice the motivated kids in the high unmotivated population schools while you work to create a model that educates everyone. If your goal is education, then you see such kids as those who could be educated in a different environment, so your goal is to provide them with a better environment.
Public schools advocate: the greatest good is transforming society, of which education is only a part. Education advocate: the greatest good is empowering individuals with the desire and potential to achieve with the opportunity to do so, and for this education is a vital part that should not be sacrificed.
Which camp are you in? A better question: if you have school-age kids, what type of schools do they attend?
there is no choice
October 1st, 2012
1:03 pm
“Parents already have choices – magnet, public, private, home and charter schools”
Magnet – no choice; not available at all grade levels and limited access based on acceptance
Public – no choice; restricted by geographic location (HB 251 has been limited by restrictions at the district level)
Private – no choice; restricted based on family income
Home – no choice; restricted based on family structure and income needs
Charter – no choice; restricted by geographic location and school availability
We moved here about 6 years ago, pay our county taxes, and have limited choice when it comes to schools. We send our children to private school because it’s our only option. Our zoned school is below our expectations for a quality education and Cobb has limited the effectiveness of HB 251. Even though the current teacher turnover ratio in our area is higher than Cobb averages and even that of Teach for America, efforts to bring in new teachers from TFA were voted down because of the timing.
Other board members, that do not have a stake in the education of our area voted it down. They represent their districts and negatively impacted increasing achievement rates in our district because they did not feel that the “timing” was appropriate. What about the children? How long should they wait?
We’re not going to see true change until the school board members have a vested interest in all of the districts.
John Konop
October 1st, 2012
1:05 pm
Centris,
I have posted this a few times……………
No board members should be able to be a consultant, owner and or work for vendors, charter management contracts…..Full disclosure if they had any prior affiliation. No board member should be able to be on the board if they revived any form compensation in the last 2 years from any material vendor.
Full disclosure of any office holder and or relatives with any affiliation with vendors providing services for the school.
No board member and or officeholder should have any interest in the property the school uses
Full disclosure of any officeholder relatives employed by the charter school
Board meeting should be listed 30 days in advance on a set day after 7 pm, not at 10 am on random days with short notice….
Any school, with more than 750 students with a private management company should be required to put up bonding to make sure that the school fulfills the school year
Full disclosure on ownership of property the school uses ie detailed list with names of the people with any affiliation to the school and or officeholders
If the property has any ownership affiliation with the private management company it should be put up as security to pay back the government for any free tax payer dollars ie grants and management fees or expenses against the district eats via placing the kids back into school via failure.
Full disclosure of the contract between the private management company and the charter school. Once again a list of any cross affiliations….
Is this really asking too much, for protecting tax payers ?
vh3
October 1st, 2012
1:07 pm
Here is a quote from the Georgia Charter Schools Association, in a report on vacant facilities assessment within APS. The entire document can be found at http://publiccharters.org/images/Final%20Report-5-18-11-small.pdf.
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
It states:
Foreward:
“Atlanta Public Schools has been a leader in approving and supporting Charter schools in Georgia. The Board of Directors of APS approved it’s first Charter school in 1999. Today there are currently twelve start-up Charter schools operating in APS. Since the passage of HB881 in 2009, which provides that school districts will make their unused facilities available to Charter schools without rental charges, APS has led the way among all other school districts in repurposing their unused facilities for Charter schools. We are happy to report that this study was a collaborative effort with the full support of APS and with a shared intent of assisting additional Charter schools operating within the APS district with their facility needs.” – Tony Roberts, Ph.D., CEO, Georgia Charter Schools Association
So, apparently even the CEO of the Georgia Charter Schools Association thinks APS has “led the way” in allowing Charters to use their vacant facilities. Interesting.
The part about school districts being legally bound to “make their unused facilities available to Charter schools without rental charges” is also interesting, but may be an argument for another day.
Tonya C.
October 1st, 2012
1:09 pm
Centrist:
Bravo. This is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. The truth is, whether by intent or happenstance there is already a caste system in education. It is not necessarily by race, but along socioeconomic and parental participation lines. It sucks, but it is what it is. Ignoring the fact is not making it go away any faster.
Public schools are going to continue to lose funding, no matter how much protesting takes place. The question is, where will the money go?
John Konop
October 1st, 2012
1:17 pm
I agree the “one size fit all approach” has been a failure. Jan Jones and I both agree the ” one size fit all approach” does not work. The difference between Jan and I from reading the op-ed posted is I think we need to fix the NCLB as well as add charter schools, with more fiscal accountability.
The right and the left have this issue all screwed up. The truth is we have increased the rate of kids prepared for college at an amazing rate over the last 30 years. The problem is in my opinion, is with kids we are pushing into a 4 year college who would be better served at a tech school. And the kids who are being pushed out because they are in a 4 year prep or out curriculum.
I read an interesting study in the last 20 years we have increased amount of kids taking the SAT by 60 percent. Btw that is when SAT scores started falling. A bell curve on aptitude tells at best we could prepare is about 30 percent for 4 year college from what I read.
Ironically Jeb Bush runs around telling people how we are failing 66 percent of the kids. And if we just had charter schools, tutoring…..we could somehow change the bell curve. The bizarre part is we have close to 4 million vocational jobs for that 66 percent. The solution is simple, but both sides are looking in the wrong direction.
I will give credit to John Barge and many in the legislator trying to deal with this via new bills. But it needs to be coordinated better in our schools via waiving 4 year prep requirement. And this should be the major focus…….
I have made the same point on this issue for years. We need to let the requirements flow from a 4 year college, trade school, JC……..for students to either get a high school degree with real job skills and or the prep requirements for a 4 year institution. Also we need to combine resources between higher education and high school from facilities, staff, administration…..
The above would lower the dropout rate, create work ready graduates for the 4 million job openings in the vocational field, prepare 4 year college bound students better and save tax payer money.
Tonya C.
October 1st, 2012
1:23 pm
John Konop:
All of what you said I can co-sign. I feel like the solutions to many of the problems in education are multifaceted, but there are solutions readily available.
AlreadySheared
October 1st, 2012
1:30 pm
@Batgirl,
OK, let’s go with this then: in order to use your government funded medicare/medicaid, you must receive medical at the hospital closest to you – no driving across town to someplace you like better. No chosing your own doctor or specialists.
THAT is our benefit delivery model for K-12 public education, and there isn’t a reason in the world why it has to be that way.
BehindEnemyLines
October 1st, 2012
1:35 pm
The first two differences between the charter amendment and TSPLOT are pretty obvious
1) The charter amendment at least stands a chance of providing some meaningful improvement without heaping more tax dollars onto the fire.
2) The charter amendment is going to pass.
Gwinnett Voter
October 1st, 2012
1:37 pm
You may want to do a quick search on Sean Murphy’s successful business dealings with GCPS. Keep in mind that ESPLOST IV is earmarked primarily for technology.
bootney farnsworth
October 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
while I support the concept of charters, I intend to vote no for a very simple reason:
no one has laid out, to my satisfaction, exactly how this will be funded, and its impact
on the state’s education commitments. commitments which it already is not meeting.
Rob Adkerson
October 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
This is an all out assault by the education establishment in Georgia to protect the same failing system they have sentenced children to in Georgia for decades. When will the rest of us stand up and say enough is enough? It’s time for choice and competition for our children’s sake, for our state’s sake and for liberty’s sake. It’s time to change the paradigm once and for all. Please visit http://www.SchoolChoiceTruth.com and attend the Northwest Georgia Education Roundtable in October when we will once and for all put all of their lies and misinformation to rest with facts. The truth has no agenda, the GAE does.
John Konop
October 1st, 2012
2:20 pm
Rob,
.. This is an all out assault by the education establishment in Georgia to protect the same failing system they have sentenced children to in Georgia for decades….
Schools like Georgia Tech, Emory, U of Georgia…… are filled with students that came out of Georgia public schools. You realize you just insulted a lot of students!
A Minority Opp
October 1st, 2012
3:32 pm
All of this boils down to simple Economics: supply, demand, competition and choice. The student enrollment at Georgia Cyber Academy (GCA), a charter school, has more than doubled from last year. These enrollment numbers have grown steadily over the last 4 years. Obviously, many parents have decided that this charter is a better option for them than the public school system.
Coming from a businessman, Mr. Murphy’s article smells of bias and illogical deduction. Business is about efficiency and effectiveness. Cost is a big part of efficiency because a “tighter ship” brings about greater efficiency. There is no doubt that virtual schools are more cost efficient in bringing education to students and GCA requires lots of parent involvement to ensure the success of its students.
Charter schools, especially in largely minority communities, have exposed the public school system as being a bureaucratic, inefficient, scandalous, failed system!
Mary Elizabeth
October 1st, 2012
3:40 pm
I will vote NO to the constitional amendment. In my opinion, this amendment is more political than it is educational.
FJ
October 1st, 2012
3:56 pm
I am so torn on this issue. As an educator I want to vote no, but as a parent I want to vote yes. I appreciate all of the coverage, Maureen. The more knowledge, the better.
Mom to Many
October 1st, 2012
5:03 pm
Sean Murphy serves as a trustee on the board of the Gwinnett County Public Schools Foundation. He also wrote a pro-ESPLOST piece that ran here last year. He didn’t disclose his association with GCPS Foundation in that piece either.
If I remember correctly, the GCPS Foundation has a really sweet deal where they have been provided with offices located AT the central office for GCPS.
Ron F.
October 1st, 2012
5:05 pm
A Minority Opp: check attrition rates at the charter schools. Public schools aren’t allowed to simply kick kids out or send them somewhere else if they don’t perform. Charters, on the other hand, seem to have few if any barriers to dismissing students that don’t “measure up.” I can guarantee you many parents are going to find that cyber-school just isn’t what they expected and will remove their kids. I know of several parents who have had trouble getting the logins to work right and have found that GCA isn’t the panacea they expected. It works for some, but in the end isn’t as great as it seems.
Parent for choice
October 1st, 2012
7:44 pm
I happen to be in a county that offers no choice in education but our local charter school. The education in the local public schools is atrocious. My children excel in all subjects because I choose to send them to the charter school. If my choice is taken away, they will have no option besides a failing system. My money, My children, My School, My choice! Vote Yes to the amendment!
Kristy WIlkins
October 1st, 2012
8:10 pm
Dear Mr. Successful metro Atlanta business entrepreneur. I would Love to invite you to come spend one days time with me!. (= I would LOVE to let you talk to my children who have attended a local private school and now in PCA charter school and see what they have to say. I would love to get you in my 2004 Yukon and ride around our surrounding counties walking with you in each school that is available for my children to attend. We can then go over the test scores for each and every school one by one on the way to each location. We can talk about the schools test scores in Social studies like 66,67,59,40,35 “CRCT test scores in our district” and did I mention our school of a 88? How about in Science like 73,66,51,42 or at our school having a 84. See Mr. successful business entrepreneur my children use to attend a very good school system in Leesburg Georgia however we had to move to the rural country so that my husband can continue to grow the food that feeds your family and my family. I choose NOT to allow my children to attend a school thinking that they are smart and will be successful like yourself when they are out preforming their class mates making grades in the 50`s and 60`s. I truly know with all of my heart that if your children or grandchildren had to live in or deal with the same circumstances you would be writing a message like myself. Also as of a child growing up in private school most of my life I MUST say for our choices around here that just because its “private” does not mean it teaching for excellence! If you would like to take me up on my offer please email me and we can schedule a day. I will pray for the truth and fairness to all of our children and those that choose not to be compliant however to exceed like your self Mr. Business man. Thank you Kristy Wilkins you can email me personally at voteyesforpca@gmail.com
For the kids
October 1st, 2012
8:24 pm
You are wrong. This is not about truth or trust, it is about kids. I can show you about 360 kids and their families that can tell you the truth about what a difference our not-for-profit charter school started by concerned parents and approved by the Commission has made in their lives. Shame on you for comparing kids futures to transportation.
For the kids
October 1st, 2012
8:29 pm
@ bootney farms worth. I have no idea if this is true, but I was told that the money to fund Commission schools would come from the fund for state trooper cars and parking meters. I do know that it is not affecting traditional public schools. In my opinion there are a lot of things in this state’s budget that could be cut, but education should not be one of them for ANY kids, no matter what body authorizes their schools. I hope you will reconsider your vote. There are 360 kids in southwest Georgia depending on it passing. By the way our school was started and is run by parents, no for profit company here. And we are outperforming five local districts in our area by leaps and bounds.
For the kids
October 1st, 2012
8:40 pm
Charter school teachers do have to pay into Teacher Retirement and a lot of charter schools pay on the state scale.
Another Comment
October 1st, 2012
8:46 pm
@ Ron F. said it, you can’t even get the logins to work on the Georgia Cyber Academy. They also do not offer ESOL. I tried to get the girl who cleans my house and had a baby at 16 to do that. They were not helpful to her. She found an on-line school that charges $100/mo. That will allow her to progress faster than a year at a time, so she can graduate in less than a year, instead of 3 years.
Cyber Academy formerly K-12 is just book and computer payment for the Home Schooling Crowd. Instead of that crowd having to go out and buy their own books, lessons and computers, they can now get them for free. They can also have an easier time qualifying for the Hope Scholarship. They also don’t have to higher a teacher to teach Physics, Chemistry or Biology when it is over Mom’s head. That is why its numbers are growing so much, word has spread through the crazy bible thumping home schooling crowd. That is right these Tea Party faithful have figured out how to get something for free.
Just like Michele Dugger got Months of ICU paid for by all of us for a 26 week old baby that she should not have been having in her 40’s when she had 18 already. If they didn’t have the TV show, who doesn’t doubt they would be using SNAP to feed that family of 21.
Suzy Citizen
October 1st, 2012
8:47 pm
I will continue to support charters. I believe that people in the Atlanta Metro area (with easy access to school choice) have very little understanding of the problems being faced by rural communities. We lack incentives for people to move here, especially good schools. Out of the 5 surrounding counties, not one school board would even consider hearing a petition for a charter school. What are families like ours supposed to do? Continue to send students to failing schools with school boards that are unwilling to listen and cannot be voted out because of the “good ole boy” system that prevails in rural communities. I can’t afford to move 6 counties away and I want the same things for my children that you want for yours. The best possible OPTIONS for me and my family. Please vote for options, add oversight, do what you must, but give us a chance to have something positive for my child.
I am not opposed to public schools, but I would like the option to decide for myself what is best for my children as is afforded to me my the US Constitution and as should be by the Georgia Constitution.
Another Comment
October 1st, 2012
8:49 pm
I am voting No on the Charter amendment, but I would vote Yes on an honest amendment for Vouchers. I voted Yes for TSPLost because we need Infrastructure. But the fact is our elected officials need to have the balls to vote for the Tax increases to fund, Education, Health and Infrastructure. Georgia’s Tax rate is very low, we all don’t need to be living in 3,000 to 4,000 sf. houses.
Ashley
October 1st, 2012
8:53 pm
How nice it must be to be from a metro area where you have these choices you speak of or in an area where you have never been faced with a failing school district … You are right this amendment isn’t about the students or choice to the OPPOSITIOn … It’s about money, power and school board employees …. You should vote yes if you want to have a choice for your children in the event that you are faced with a failing school option. And I can’t speak for all the schools on the charter school
Report but at my school, Pataula Charter Academy … We outperformed all five districts that we serve in every CRCT content area and we did it on $4500 a student while the others were funded at 10-15,000 a student …And these local districts had extra local money for students that they didnt have !!!!!
Ron F.
October 1st, 2012
9:09 pm
“but at my school, Pataula Charter Academy … We outperformed all five districts that we serve in every CRCT content area and we did it on $4500 a student while the others were funded at 10-15,000 a student …And these local districts had extra local money for students that they didnt have !!!!!”
Ashley- you should read more on this and other blogs. Pataula is hardly representative of the population of any county it serves at 75% white student population. The balance is clearly in its favor when it doesn’t have the racial mix the county schools have, and you should know that. I know Baker county pretty well, and the entrenched problems caused by poverty and high concentrations of it in a school are all too apparent there. Perhaps that’s why you’re at Pataula, to get away from “those people”?
Another Comment
October 1st, 2012
9:27 pm
no it won’t
bu2
October 1st, 2012
9:30 pm
Pataula is still 54% free lunch. Maureen picks on them when she could say the exact same thing about Pelham City Schools, home of her favorite superintendent, James Arnold. Its a relatively white enclave in Baker’s neighboring county, Mitchell. Pelham city schools are around half white while Mitchell is 90+% African American. The reality is that the better off in the area send their kids to private schools in Albany, Camilla or Thomasville. A charter school gives the less well to do an option. Those 54% on free lunch have taken initiative to get a different school for their kids. They are unlikely to be able to afford sending their kids to Deerfield, Westwood or Brookwood.
Ron F.
October 1st, 2012
9:55 pm
bu2: Pelham City serves the kids living in its district, which btw was 53% black and 40% white in 2010. Pataula, by some level of design, catered to the folks enrolled there and was set up for that purpose. They can say what they want, but when the racial balance is that off in a school set up to serve five counties, something just isn’t right. The best off send their kids to private schools, that’s the truth and always has been in the rural parts of Georgia. They never quite got past Brown vs. Board of Ed. in the past sixty years.
Ron F.
October 1st, 2012
10:02 pm
Oh, and bu2, Pelham City is also 77% free/reduced lunch. Compare that to Pataula’s 54% in a population that is 75% white. Hmmmm…
GTCO-ATL
October 2nd, 2012
4:58 am
In DeKalb County, we were told that the state has cut education funding and we must close our small, neighborhood elementary schools and approve SPLOST IV (it passed) in order to build these large, institutional schools that were more practical so we could be more like Gwinett.
Now, these same folks are telling us we need more of the small, neighborhood schools than the ones we already have now. We need so many, in fact, that our local board might deny one for some reason (like a problem with their application) and then the state BOE might also deny it? So, THEN, rather than fixing the portions of the application that has been twice denied, these charter schools advocates will seek the kinder, more understanding approval of a state appointed board? And these folks will have a drastically different view because we can trust that the Governor will only appoint the more senstive and sympathetic people to his board who will rubber stamp any old thing? Riiiiiight!
Listen – this is not about charter schools. We have charter schools. This is not about parental choice. We have choices. There is not a long line of turned down charter schools waiting for an approval. Most of them get approved. The ones that do not are for good reason and they can reapply. I know that one school here was turned down because it was not open to all parts of the county. The state commission approved it even after the local board and state board agreed that charters should be open to everyone. They took it to the Supreme Court and the local board’s position was upheld. Eventually, the charter re-wrote their business plan and it was approved.
A second charter fell apart when it turned out to be a political mess without real parents behind it. It was approved by the state commission but did not reapply sucessfully. In both cases, the local board (and I am by no means a fan whatsoever) was right.
This is all about virtual schools and an attempt by ALEC members of Congess to privatived education and make profits off of our kids. This is an artifical movement started by politicians, not citizens. Read more here: http://www.GETtheCELLoutATL.org.
Ashley
October 2nd, 2012
8:39 am
Ron F… I find your comment highly offensive considering I am part of the minority population ….. Are you saying that only white kids can outperform the districts !!!!!! The main reason PCA outperforms other district is bc we don’t teach the test … We teach students how to solve problems NOT remember answers and considering we founded PCA in the most highly concentrated mInority region in the state , I think it’s safe to safe we were not trying to get away from anyone …. And we never thought our minority population would be so low …. Maybe it’s bc ignorant people like you are spreading rumors … And I see you failed to address how much money we are saving and how much money the local districts are keeping of local tax dollars … Just like the opposition to only concentrate on part of the facts ….
Ronin
October 2nd, 2012
9:38 am
It’s pretty simple.
If your satisfied with Georgia ranking 47th or 48th in the nation on national test scores, vote against the amendment.
If you’re not satisfied with those numbers, vote for the charter amendment.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the current system isn’t meeting the needs of k-12 students. There will be those that argue, “we need more funding”. Sorry, simply look at the APS system.
It’s not the money, it’s the system that’s broken, beyond repair.
C Jae of EAV
October 2nd, 2012
9:49 am
@vh3 – Behind the scenes what they don’t tell you is APS has systemically blocked efforts to make use of buildings before they are allowed to rot into disrepair. They have a TON of property across the city. Further, there are no formal procedures in places to request use of buildings such that terms of agreement for use differs with each charter operator (ie. some get more favorable treatment than others).
APS is very skillful at working the buracracy to make it appear they doing a good thing, while they stick a knife in your back. Tony Roberts knows this and should be ashamed of himself for offering up the public statement you quoted. He has become quite the brillant poltically operative.
John Konop
October 2nd, 2012
10:20 am
…If your satisfied with Georgia ranking 47th or 48th in the nation on national test scores, vote against the amendment…Please do not let facts get in the way you feel about the issue………..
I have said this numerous times…………..The truth is we are doing very good on a national average.
…..If you drill down, as the state DOE has done, you see this:
- Georgia’s African American students had an average composite score of 17.4, higher than the national average of 16.9
– Georgia’s Hispanic students had an average composite score of 20.1, higher than the national average of 18.6
– Georgia’s Caucasian students had an average composite score of 22.9, higher than the national average of 22.3
”When you take a close look at the numbers, you can see that Georgia students are actually outperforming their peers from across the nation,” said state school superintendent Brad Bryant. “However, we will not be completely satisfied until we become the first state to eliminate the achievement gap altogether………
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/08/18/georgia-sees-slight-rise-in-act-scores-but-sat-scores-are-yet-to-come/”
Ron F.
October 2nd, 2012
11:19 am
Ashley: then explain your population difference. How does a charter end up with demographics that different from the systems it serves? I don’t doubt you’re doing a great job, but the difference in population affects test score outcomes and you know it. And the simple fact is the comparison of data isn’t applicable when the school population is so different from its surrounding districts. Why did so many more white kids end up at Pataula? Just so you know, I teach struggling students in a high poverty district, so I know full well how much worse the poverty has been among my minority student of various races and the challenges that causes them.
Ronin
October 2nd, 2012
11:24 am
Interesting…
@ John, according to the figures you posted, everything is dandy, we are actually ahead of the game, yet we still occupy the bottom rung of the ladder in other reviews?
Also, it’s time for the government to stop putting people in a group based on their ethnic background:
African-American, Mexican-American, Asian-American and European-American.
Unless you hold dual citizenship with another nation, you are an American, it doesn’t matter what color your skin is.
I clicked on the link: ““Shocking” punishment puts principal under fire”, it was an article that Maureen posted in 2009.
The amendment, for me at least, is not about state or local control of education. It’s about families and students having the freedom to decide what school best meets their needs. All the other numbers and poll statistics are simply background noise for political jousting.
John Konop
October 2nd, 2012
11:49 am
Ronin,
The fact is the biggest issue we face is the one size fit all approach to education you seem to support. I have news, according to the bell curve aptitude is not the same. And many kids would be better served with vocational/tech training for the 4 million job openings. BTW I cannot fix my own car, do my own plumbing, style my hair…….and unlike you I have respect for people who do that work.
Ronin
October 2nd, 2012
12:34 pm
@ John,
My comment was: “The amendment, for me at least, is not about state or local control of education. It’s about families and students having the freedom to decide what school best meets their needs.”
The keyword was FREEDOM. Freedom to choose a college based charter school or a vocational track charter school or stay with a local district school.
As to your comment: ” BTW I cannot fix my own car, do my own plumbing, style my hair…….and unlike you I have respect for people who do that work.”
I’m not really sure where that was coming from.
Frankly, you’re way off base on that observation.
I CAN fix my own car and do my own plumbing work in addition to helping commercial clients with fund management.
As far as aptitudes not being the same, they never have been and never will be. Some government officials make it their mission in life to make sure everything is equal. Government based social engineering has been a bigger failure than the war on drugs.
Ashley
October 2nd, 2012
1:23 pm
Ron F…. One of the issues with our population difference is the fact that we serve five counties , so you can’t just look at the population of Calhoun county. … And like I said before I have no idea why more white kids are not here … One reason I have been told is bc of the ignorance in our area and the fact that rumors are that we charge tuition and don’t let black kids in … Which is not true . We have a legal , public lottery every year and we have no Idea those students race during the lottery . In rural southwest Georgia people are very reluctant to change so we truly feel our minority population will increase . I also feel the need to point out again that our demographics are not as one side as the other five districts we serve .
John Konop
October 2nd, 2012
2:01 pm
Ronin,
…. As far as aptitudes not being the same, they never have been and never will be. Some government officials make it their mission in life to make sure everything is equal. Government based social engineering has been a bigger failure than the war on drugs….
I agree, but in looking at the numbers it is clear that the lack of vocational/tech style education verse No Child Left Behind is the reason our education numbers are declining. In truth we are doing a better job on a macro getting students prepared for college than any time in our history. The macro problem is the other 60 to 70 percent being pushed into a 4 year college prep or out education ie NCLB.
As far as Charter schools I get the concept in districts with issues with schools. Also if a Charter offers alternatives not in a good school district ie Math/Science, Arts, School for blind…….. But opening Charters with the lack of fiscal controls, against private companies getting the deal of the century, with tax payers taking the majority of risk does not make sense to me. Also charter schools are not fixing the core issue with NCLB for about 60 to 70 percent of the population that could be trained to get the 4 million jobs in vocational/tech area.
DrKEdD
October 2nd, 2012
2:49 pm
I AM NOT LYING TO YOU WHEN I SAY THE CHARTER SCHOOL AMENDMENT IS A WAY THAT ELITISTS CAN SEND THEIR KIDS TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL ON YOUR DIME!!!
I AM ASSOCIATED WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. BUT I PAINFULLY PAY A HEFTY PRIVATE TUITION (WITH THE HELP OF MY EXTENDED FAMILY) TO SEND MY KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLING. I WILLFULLY ACCEPT THE RESPONSIILITY TO PAY TAXES FOR OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN TO ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOL. EDUCATION IS THAT CRITICAL FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF LIBERTY. SO I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN HERE, FOLKS.
THE CHARTER SCHOOL AMENDMENT IS AN ATTEMPT BY THE ELITISTS IN THIS STATE TO HAVE YOUR TAX DOLLARS PAY FOR THEIR KIDS PRIVATE SCHOOL. ARE ALL CHILDREN IN A GIVEN SCHOOL DISTRICT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND THE CHARTER SCHOOL? NO!!!!! AND WHO WILL MAKE THE DECISION ON WHO GETS TO GO TO THE COOL NEW SCHOOL, AND WHO HAS TO BE LEFT IN THE “FAILING SCHOOL.” DO THEY HAVE TO PASS THE ENTRANCE EXAM OR MEET SOME OTHER TRUMPED UP EXCLUSIONARY CLASSIFICATION (RACE, CREED, COLOR, SOCIO ECONOMIC, ETC.)? IF SO, YOUR KID IS SITTING OUT. YOU CAN BET THAT THE ELITIST STATE LEGISLATORS’ KIDS WILL DEFINITELY BE ATTENDING THESE ELITISTS CHARTER SCHOOLS…WANNA BET?
THE GRACE SCHOLARSHIP (WHICH I WILL NOT PARTICPATE IN) IS ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO REDIRECT TAX DOLLARS AT PRIVATE SCHOOLS. I HAVE TEH OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT BUT I WILL NOT! IF I AM UNABLE TO AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOL, I WILL SIMPLY GET ANOTHER JOB (JOB #4) TO PAY WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN TO PROVIDE FOR MY KIDS.
THIS IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY BAD AMENDMENT! I ENCOURAGE YOU TO VOTE NO!
DrKEdD
October 2nd, 2012
3:01 pm
@Ronin: You wrote “The amendment, for me at least, is not about state or local control of education. It’s about families and students having the freedom to decide what school best meets their needs.” Show me in this legislation where there is a guarantee that YOUR CHILD out of 120,000 students in a school district, is going to be selected as one of the 250 to attend this charter school. I ask you, “WHAT CHOICE?” There isn’t going to be a choice unless your kid can out pace the top 250 in his/her district. (look at GSMST, Charter school with average SAT scores of 1900+..they take the smartest kids in Gwinnett.) A private school IS a choice…only difference is you have to bite the bullet and pay extra for it. If you don’t like the way the schools are run, VOTE IN DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP ON THE SCHOOL BOARD! If this law passes, what is going to preclude really really smart kids in private schools from going to these charter schools and making even TOUGHER for the average kids to get in. You see what we mean? The way the law is crafted and being ram rodded through there is no school choice here. Atleast not YOUR choice. It is an attempt to set up elitist schools for a chosen few. And the tax payers will pay for it.
Lou
October 2nd, 2012
3:01 pm
i will be voting no, but some people need to learn that the caps lock is only to be used on certain occasions…not all the time. Lawd, you givin me a headache having to read that. Did you not learn proper chatroom rules??? Sheesh, that is quite rude.
DrKEdD
October 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm
Last entry and I will get off my soap box….
There are private schools that are looking to go “charter” on this amendment to get state tax dollars. There is a program called the Grace Scholarship which allows people to redirect tax dollars to private education. BEWARE OF THE WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING! In the late 1960′ and 1970’s there was a federal grant available for private institutes of higher learning could use for capital programs. Many of the Catholic Jesuit Colleges in the Northeast (Boston College, Georgetown, Fairfield University, Fordamn, St. Peters, etc.) took advantage of this grant. They built many buildings and really boomed in their expansion using this money. The federal government then required all religious objects and religious reference be removed from the campus in fear of the separation of church and state argument. Failure to do so would find the school n breach of the terms of the grants and all moneys would need to be repaid, Another option, was the state would have a right to the buildings, thus nudging out the religious organization. In an effort to save themselves, these intitutes were sold to a local Board of Regents. The religious communities lost control of these schools, and many began to play down their religious affiliation. Imagine the State of Georgia coming into Marist and demanding all your crucifixes being taken down, or return your Grace Scholarship money. Imagine them having any stake in your curriculum or activites. Just a thought…we are not sailing on uncharter waters here. And history does have a habit of repeating itself.
DrKEdD
October 2nd, 2012
3:27 pm
Sorry Lou. But I WAS screaming reading some of the comments. And this message MUST be heard. The Legislators are not being transparent here. And they know it!
DeKalb Inside Out
October 2nd, 2012
3:40 pm
Walton High School … a conversion charter? Interesting. I forget that some schools convert for reasons other than they suck.
DrKEdD,
You appear to be a troll, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt …
1. Charter Schools do not pick their students. They are selected from a blind lottery.
2. Ivy Prep in South Dekalb is 95% minority. No Elitists there.
3. Charter schools are public schools
4. Charter schools can not have religious affiliations
Ron F.
October 2nd, 2012
6:00 pm
“1. Charter Schools do not pick their students. They are selected from a blind lottery.”
Ahhhhhm, not to nitpick, but I would argue that the “lottery” depends on the pool of those who apply, assuming that a cross section of eligible kids will apply. In Pataula Charter Academy in Edison, GA, the pool of applicants is WAY off balance for the counties it serves, which suggests that only certain people were encouraged to apply. Those lotteries may not always be as blind and unbiased as you think.
J
October 2nd, 2012
7:11 pm
@Batgirl PREACH! Regarding teacher’s salaries, retirement, and benefits, this amendment spells disaster…
Ron F.
October 2nd, 2012
7:46 pm
Ashley: I’m not just looking at Calhoun county. The school systems in every county you serve have a much different balance, which suggests those encouraging the formation of your school may have had some intent to make the balance what it is. If you’re going to balance the population, you’re going to have to deal with the “rumors” because evidently they’re working just as those spreading them intended. And you’re not the only one in the country that has a similar issue. That makes me wonder how that happens, and what those schools can do to balance the numbers. A “blind” lottery is okay, but clearly one can see how that can be used to manipulate the population of the school- you simply get those you don’t want to believe they shouldn’t apply. As you said, rural south GA has been reluctant to change, and some attitudes are stubbornly present with regards to race to this day. That’s one of the reasons I turned down a job offer in the area. I couldn’t work in that environment with so many entrenched attitudes about racial stereotypes. I come from a small town like that, and that’s why I’m “from” and not “in” it. For a fair comparison, you’ll need to address the imbalance. Do that, post the numbers you have now, and I’ll believe you’re on to something really good down there.
Ashley
October 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm
I can see this conversation is going nowhere … You don’t have the slightest idea what we have gone thru and there is no way to prove our intentions … I have lived in this town all my life and unlike you I wanted to better my community and offer more opportunities to families instead of uprooting my family . And yes I agree that the mentality down here is very frustrating sometimes but we are working against decades of prejudices that will not be fixed overnight …. And just because you feel a certain way about the way charters do things , doesn’t make it true … I hope our dialogue has helped shed some light on the issues
Ron F.
October 2nd, 2012
9:59 pm
“I can see this conversation is going nowhere ”
I don’t think so. You’re sharing an inside view that I very much wanted to hear. I agree you’re doing a great job from looking at data. And I also agree kids and families need more options. But you have to agree that those options need to be marketed fairly to all, and you have a very tough situation doing that in your area. I’m actually agreeing with you on some points; and I’m pushing on others to make you think, not to aggravate you (one’s intended tone isn’t what always comes across in printed words on a blog). I hope your school can address the racial issues and be a place where those issues become the moot points they should be. Perhaps you will offer not only educational options, but a chance to change some deeply rooted social attitudes. It’s an uphill climb, but I think your school could become a big force in changing that if you can find a way to get a broader group to apply to your school. I’m all for changing those attitudes, but I had to get away from the deep seated racism I grew up around to emotionally survive. I applaud you for staying there and trying, and I don’t discredit your school- I put the blame solely on parents and leaders in the community who obviously manipulated the pool of applicants with all the rumors. How do we prevent that from happening elsewhere based on your experience? How do we, in your opinion, make sure that charter school lottery pools can’t be so easily manipulated by influential community members? I’m not sure there is a way knowing how things work in small rural towns, but going forward I think we need to try.
Logical Dad
October 3rd, 2012
7:04 am
Interesting conversation. It is obvious to me that those supporting the amendment are doing so for political reasons and those opposing it doing so for educational reasons. For me, it is a matter of local control. I prefer the tax-funded schools in my county, public and charter, to be managed and operated by the school board elected by the citizens of my county – not faceless bureaucrats in Atlanta.
DeKalb Inside Out
October 3rd, 2012
11:54 am
Logical Dad said
those supporting the amendment are doing so for political reasons and those opposing it doing so for educational reasons.
That’s quite the broad stroke. That’s not very logical, dad.
Logical Dad
October 3rd, 2012
6:11 pm
DeKalb Inside Out: LOL! Let me guess…you’re a supporter? (I rest my case.)
DeKalb Inside Out
October 3rd, 2012
7:40 pm
Logical Dad, I am a supporter and have no political reasons. I rest MY case
Spend one full day in an average public metro area school, and you will vote YES!!!
October 4th, 2012
3:41 am
Logical Dad:
Your logic is 100% backwards. Those supporting are parents who genuinely, desperately, want a viable public option for their kids’ education and feel this is our only hope. It is purely educational. I’m not the least bit Republican, but this is the best hope for my kids to get a decent education in a safe environment. I’m in the trenches, living it every day. I am POSITIVE that this is the best thing for Georgia until and unless there is some real major reform in education. I just know that my kids will be college graduates by then!
Those opposing the amendment are the local school boards who want to keep control because they want to keep getting paid for doing a poor job. This is always what happens in a monopoly situation. It is purely political.
Kevin Kitchen
October 7th, 2012
12:47 am
Do you really think “parents already have choices”? The fact is that parents have FEW if any choices. For most of them the schools in the area where the local school board have drawn a line around them are the ONLY choice. That might be OK if you happen to live in a school district like the one here in Cobb but it is not OK if you live in an area where the schools are filthy, underfunded and dangerous (re Clayton) with a dysfunctional board that cannot even approve a toilet paper contract much less a charter school. In a perfect world, local boards would FAIRLY evaluate and approve or disapprove an application for such a school but in many places the boards are beholden to the teacher unions more than they are to the children. Teacher unions vote and give money. Kids don’t. So, if a local board fails to approve a charter, there must by a state appeals process. That is why I am voting yes. And no, this is NOT a partisan issue. I am also voting for President Obama at the same time.
abc
October 11th, 2012
9:57 am
Why would I want more of the funds for education (Charter schoold get 7500 dollars per kid while public school gets about 2700 per kis) to be taken away from the majority of the kids and go to a small group of “selected” kids. I just don’t get it?