“Charter school amendment is the epitome of small government.”

now – where is the money gonna come from?

“when you wish upon a star…”

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Said before….this is not about charter schools. 200 charter schools already in the state. If denied by local, appeal to state DOE. If Charters are so much better because some state requrements are waived then waive for all schools. We all need to work together to improve education in the state. Too much divisivness. Public, Private, Home school, Magnet, local approved charters, State approved charters…..and now state commission approved charters? How many more choices until everyone is happy?

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Seems like Chip Rogers is for smaller government only when it will benefit him and his friends. Probably Shady Deal and friends/family also.

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RESA’s are Education Service Agencies. They offer professional development and other SERVICES. They’re not a layer of administration overseeing schools; they serve the schools. They run on a relatively small staff and budget for what they provide, which in my area is valuable, cost-effective professional development.

One would expect a numbers cruncher like this to have a better grasp of the subject at hand.

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no need for charter or private schools when neighborhood schools were occupied by kids from families that actually lived in those neigbohoods. now that district lines have been changed to promote social engineering and the ( brilliant middle school idea ) was brought in our public schools have gone in the toilet and the market for private schools has gone through the roof!! the only decent public schools are now miles away NORTH OF THE METRO AREA… the way things are going ATLANTA will be like Savannah, where the only kids who attend public schools will be minorities and hispanics.

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What purpose do RESAs serve now that professional development is not required for teacher re-certification? I renewed my certificate in 2011. Good for 5 years and no PLU requirement. In addition, my RESA was no help to a high school social studies teacher.
Maybe they are helpful, but to me, they were cushy jobs for failed administrators.

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This Charter School push is nothing but a disguised political correct version of a STATE planned support and a return to SEGREGATION. This time it is carefully crafted to avoid all of the pesky issues of the past. This plan benefits the Lucky FEW
at the expense of the thousands of other students.

“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters, cannot be trusted with important matters.” – Albert Einstein

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Big government is the new “small government”. So says the Orwellian Party of fake conservatives and their corporate masters.

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Aquagirl, there will be no charter school plopped down in a community that hasn’t requested it.

May, that’s the point. Whether or not you get a charter school depends on popular sentiment, not the individual wishes of parents.

This amendment provides a process where small groups of people can hijack tax dollars regardless of what their neighbors think. If the voters in Cherokee want a charter school the school board can approve one. If the parents of one precious snowflake don’t agree with the majority they can either move or find a private school.

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“RESAS are funded by the districts”

Are RESA workers teaching kids? If not, they are “administration”.

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So what if 51% of the county voters wants the other 49% imprisoned in ineffective and bad public schools?

Oh, the cat’s out of the bag….people WANT kids imprisoned in ineffective, horrible schools. Riiiight. Drama queen much?

Funny how the 49% don’t have a problem reaching into the 51%’s pockets. If you want their cash, they get a say. In case you slept through History and Civics, this is called “taxation with representation.”

If you have a problem with that concept moving is a good idea. Pick somewhere you don’t live under the US Constitution.

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Our local RESA fixes the copier machines. Or did, till we found a cheaper way to do it. I agree that RESA has gone the way of the dinosaurs.

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“people WANT kids imprisoned in ineffective, horrible schools.”

I have blogged it time and time again on here – there are several basic changes that need to be made to improve schools – but they can’t or won’t do them.

They are:

REmove discipline problem children from the classroom

Enforce attendance and tardiness

Eliminate social promotion

Re-examine our cost effectiveness with respect to SPED students

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“Funny how the 49% don’t have a problem reaching into the 51%’s pockets. ”

If the Constitutional Amendment pases, it won’t be because 49% vote for it. Polls say 58% of people favor the amendment. Just remember if it passes, that the majority has spoken. Or it sounds like you want the 42% to control the wishes of the 58%.

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If the majority is in favor of the amendment, then it becomes the law of the state. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, then it will be a heck of a lot more difficult to fix. And that’s what bothers me. I’m no political science major, but I think legislation to clear up any confusion about control over setting up schools could be introduced and handled without a constitutional amendment. That’s just my opinion and it worries me when we start amending the constitution to give the legislature that level of authority without much accountability. That and the fact that we have a known lawbreaker as governor just makes me nervous. This isn’t about improving schools as much as it is about political power, and that makes the whole amendment idea questionable to me.

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RESA has never done anything for me….been to a couple of conferences (but didn’t get much out of them). I never understood their purpose.

My plan is to open a unique charter school if this bill passes. After 18 years, I know what the parents in my community want. I plan to provide them with it.

I don’t know about other counties but we have kids from Fulton county in our schools because their charter schools closed down. I checked into it and it is legal, although extremely frustrating for those of us that pay the higher home prices/taxes/etc of the county.

Whatever.

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It’s big business that profits the politically powerful and out-of-state, for-profit education management firms that are quite comfortable greasing political palms to get a bite out of the huge education market in Georgia and elsewhere. The tab for helping our ethically challenged political leaders and raising the ROI of these for-profit “education” corporations is paid for by average Georgians who want to do the right thing by children but who have been misled by Republicans they thought they could trust. The language of the charter school amendment is intentionally misleading; if our elected officials were so sure of the righteousness of this amendment, why would they try to “trick” Georgians into voting the way they want. I believe it’s because they know this self-serving legislation would not withstand critical scrutiny by voters who honestly want to create new opportunities for students to excel. If you want to get a glimpse of Georgia’s future should this amendment pass, look at the state of Florida which moved in this direction under the “leadership” of……you guessed it, Republican Jeb Bush……according to reports emanating from that great state, the education management corporations are running “amok” with the taxpayers’ money feeling no sense of constraint, no sense of transparency and no sense of accountability. Regardless of whether you are a Republican, Democrat or Independent, and regardless of what you believe is good or bad about public education, you owe it to yourself (in my opinion) to really look into the charter school issue and ask yourself questions such as, “Why would our state’s elected leadership invest so much of its political capital in this one issue to the point of threatening funding for Gwinnett Tech if the local Chamber didn’t reverse its opposition to the amendment?” Another good question to consider is whether the GOP’s decision dating back to “Go Fish” Sonny to reduce state funding for public schools by $4 billion wasn’t part of a plan to so erode public support for public schools that there would be an appetite for a market-based solution; I think Georgians with common sense, regardless of party, might want to chew on that and see who profits from what has unfolded. It certainly hasn’t been our children who now attend public schools 140-170 days a year in contrast to their future competitors in other nations who spend more than 200 days a year in school. Another question I would suggest we all consider is where has this worked in other states and what has actually been the experiences (good and bad) there. I think charter schools are great and needed, but there is a means for them to come to fruition in Georgia. My son attended a charter school, and it was a good experience for our family; it came into being under the auspice of a local board of education I helped elect as one voter and it reflected input from all of the parents who cared to participate. That’s the way it’s supposed to work; not through some board appointed by an ethically-challenged Governor and a self group of self-serving dolts who populate our General Assembly. Let’s vote for or against the charter school amendment on the basis of a clearly worded ballot measure (not going to happen this time), a clear understanding of where the money is going today and in the future (both under the table now and over the table later), where this has worked in other states or how it hasn’t worked, and whether Georgia students will actually benefit. Stanford University has shown that one-third of charter schools outperform their peers in conventional public schools, one-third perform equally well as their peers in conventional schools and one-third actually underperform their peers in conventional schools. Not exactly a great endorsement for charter schools, but certainly not damning enough to suggest charters shouldn’t be attempted. We have got to get better for the sake of our children, but turning our tax money over to an ethically-challenged Governor, his political hacks and the self-serving interests of profit oriented education management corporations isn’t the answer. Why would we ever want to give up our voting power to determine local school boards in favor of anyone appointed by this band of folks? I believe they are counting on our ignorance, our apathy and their “cleverness” to scheme their way into a highly profitable situation that benefits them rather than taxpayers or children. Whether we let them get away with it is up to us entirely in November. I am a lifelong Georgian of more than sixty years, and while I have not always agreed with what my fellow citizens have voted to do, I have always thought them to be driven by good, common sense. I have never felt that they were anyone’s fool, and I don’t believe that today. I hope we will see voters take the time to really think about this issue and then vote as their conscience dictates. I do hope that voters will see in the charter school amendment issue the same sort of big government, top-down, my way or the highway power play that directed the TSPLOST issue. It’s the same gaggle of self serving folks in charge, and I believe it’s time to tell them we are paying attention and won’t swallow anything they say or sell.

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The epitome of small government would be for government to get completely OUT of the education business altogether and allow a fully free and competitive marketplace to deliver educational services that meet customer’s needs in a manner that responds to the direct democracy of voting with your dollars.

Charter schools simply maintain the socialist government funding mechanism, maintain the intrenched bureaucracy, dangle a carrot in front of the faces of parents desperate to escape the failed government system, all without providing the serious freedom and accountability that parents woefully need.

Much like the way vouchers would simply destroy private education by allowing government meddling, charter schools will only destroy even more school opportunities and will likely burn parents out who otherwise have shown the initiative to try something different for a change.

I would encourage all charter and voucher supporters instead to work for a truly free market in which innovators and entrepreneurs are allowed to design and customize affordable educational options without government interference and meddling. In the end, only a free market will ever achieve the goal of a fully educated public because only a free market has the inherent incentive to please its customers.

And as for voting actually changing anything – if voting actually changed anything, it would be illegal.

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@MAY “Aquagirl, there will be no charter school plopped down in a community that hasn’t requested it.”

Are you certain about that? Once you let the cat out of the bag, you will have a hard time catching it again!

As the folks in St. John’s County, Florida found out (including some state senators).

Excepts:

“Three proposed charter schools are seeking to come into St. Johns County including two run by what’s been called “Florida’s richest charter school management firm” and the third with ties to a Tampa area educational company.

Why they’re coming to what’s considered one of the best school districts in the state puzzles two charter school supporters from opposing political parties — State Sen. John Thrasher, R-St. Augustine, and State Sen. Bill Montford, D-Tallahassee.

Montford warned that the charter schools would have a detrimental effect on St. Johns County Schools.

Charter school proponents say the schools help students gain better academic results through innovative programs, greater parent involvement and educational choice. They see charter schools as providing an opportunity for students in failing schools.

But St. Johns County schools aren’t failing. Based on Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test scores, the district has ranked No. 1 in the state for four years in a row.

The district would lose about $12.8 million yearly in state funds and need 200 fewer teachers based on the peak number of students that could go to the new charters.

State Sen. John Thrasher, R-St. Augustine, expressed surprise when told of the charter requests and wasn’t sure why they wanted to come to a successful district such as St. Johns County.
“Why fix or try to fix something that’s not broken?” Thrasher said, noting people are “happy with the schools, they’re performing well and they do a good job.”

Thrasher has been a proponent of charter schools and said he did vote for districts to give more consideration to charter schools with a proven track record. But, he said, the schools are primarily intended to go into areas where there is the most need, usually urban districts.

The only reason for the charter schools coming would be “profit, and I hope that we realize that profit should not be the primary goal of an alternative school. There’s nothing wrong with making a profit but you sure wouldn’t want profit at the expense of public schools, especially in a district that is high performing.”

State Sen. Montford, a former Leon County school superintendent, agrees.
“A charter school is supposed to provide an option in those districts where they have struggling schools. … I’m quite surprised and a little dismayed they would come to St. Johns County. It causes me not only concern but a little confusion as well,” Montford said, noting he’s been a supporter of charter schools as a “viable option” since he was a principal.

“I find it highly unusual that any charter school company would apply to enter into a district such as St. Johns County. … St. Johns sets the pace; they’re one of the top ranked districts not only in the state but in the country,” Montford said.

Read more: http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-08-26/three-profit-charter-schools-apply-st-johns-county-baffling-thrasher-who

The comments are especially interesting, as many are from parents in the district where it appears no one asked for the establishment of a Charter school.

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Exactly. Charter schools are the epitome of small government.
Dunwoody Mom says about charter proponents “these people want to help themselves to taxpayer funds, but don’t want any accountability with regards to its use.”
Dunwoody Mom, “these people” ? These people ARE taxpayers. It’s THEIR money. They have a right to say what the govt does with THEIR money.

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So if someone from Baldwin County can vote on my DeKalb County schools, can I also vote in Baldwin County?

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This piece does not even deserve a response. Unfortunately, it is based on the same kind of twisted logic being used by all the pro-charter folk. Bottom line – how is the state going to afford paying the $5,000 per child rate for charter schools when it can not even pay the $2,000 rate for regular public schools?

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I’d like to build on this earlier post addressing author Virginia Galloway:

JD, September 24th, 3:46 pm: “Btw, isn’t your group yet another out of state organization foisting its ideas upon our state?”

If you click on the link provided above about Americans for Prosperity, you learn that this is a national conservative site–Tea Party, I would guess– based in Arlington, VA, that seeks “to engage citizens in the name of limited government and free markets.” It advocates cutting taxes and government spending, and not much else. Georgia’s charter school amendment is only one of many issues it’s trying to influence around the country.

I’m a native New Yorker myself, but I believe the Southern term for such people/organizations is “CARPETBAGGERS.”

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Prof,

In fairness the Tea Party in Georgia is split on this issue. I am not a member, but I know one of the leaders of the movement Debbie Dooley. And she has pointed out in public that many Tea Party members are working against the amendment via the set up ie read my above post. I will give Debbie credit, because she made the exact same points about the lack of controls with T Splost. I do think we need infastructure, but when Debbie posted all the issues regarding the projects I voted against it.i give Debbie Dooley a big thumps up for being very consistent on this issue and TSplist.

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@ John Konop, September 24th, 8:30 pm.

I didn’t mean that Tea Partiers are carpetbaggers (many seem pretty native to Georgia), but the Americans for Prosperity organization.

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Prof,

No problem, you a very bright person who post commen

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Prof,

No prob

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Prof,

Sorry I am having problems with my iPod. My point is that this issue is not as simple as pro charter vs anti carter. There is an emerging group that is pro tax payer, and this amendment has created alliances against it from non traditional partners via how it is set up with lack of controls. I am sure as bright as you are, you get my point. Please do keep posting comments, they are very thoughtful.

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The solution is to get a new school board. That is the epitomy of local control. Run for school board. Convince the public with the logic of your ideas. It subverts democracy, that when you don’t want to go to the trouble to use the democratic system already in place, or your arguments are not convincing, you look for a way around the system. I find this deplorable in the same way I found Obama’s back door “Dream Act” deferment a very undemocratic solution because he could not convince Congress to pass a law.

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After yesterday’s vote by the school board of DCSS to give 4 administrators a raise after they voted against it in July, I am 100% for charter schools. At least if a charter school pulls the stuff that the DCSS pulls, they would only be in existence until the end of their charter which is 5 years in length. There is little that can be done with the incompetence that makes up DCSS. Also, if a charter school doesn’t have the kids to support it, which will usually happen because it’s not a quality school, it will be forced to close.

Our public schools need competition. I watched charter schools open around the Pittsburgh region and watched school districts finally improve because the charter school offered a far superior product. And no the charter schools didn’t get all the good kids, in fact the opposite is true, they received many kids with disabilities and kids who were constantly in trouble because the schools weren’t meeting the kids needs.

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Is this what we want? Should the goal be to make it easier to set up a charter school?

….Florida’s charter school law, which makes it easy to open charter schools and difficult to monitor them, has spurred a multimillion dollar industry and a school boom — all while leading to chronic governance problems and a higher-than-average rate of school failure.

Nationally, about 12 percent of all charter schools that have opened in the past two decades have shut down, according to the National Resource Center on Charter School Finance & Governance. In Florida, the failure rate is double, state records show.

The bulk of charter school problems have surfaced in states like Florida that have “a large number of charter schools and rapid growth,” said Gary Miron, an education professor at Western Michigan University who studies the charter school industry. In many cases, Miron said, the agencies charged with oversight were underfunded.

Experts say some of the problems, both financial and academic, could be avoided if charter school authorizers were stricter in issuing school charters. (In Florida, local school districts and colleges can authorize charter schools.)

“Florida has one of the most liberal laws as far as establishing a charter school goes,” said Jeffrey Grove, a research associate for the nonpartisan Southern Regional Educational Board.

Florida law also is hands-off when it comes to existing charter schools, giving operators the power to run schools with little oversight from the state or local school districts. Districts can close a charter school, but only if the school is in extreme financial distress or chronically low performing. Other than that, there is little a district can do when academic, financial or governance problems arise.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/10/v-fullstory/2541157/how-some-states-rein-in-charter.html#storylink=cpy

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Ugh. Corporate shills spreading doublespeak about more government minus local accountability being equal to smaller government? You know there’s a lot of money at stake when they start trying to convince you that ‘up’ means ‘down.’

Let’s face it, this amendment will pass because the average voter is completely uninterested and votes ‘yes’ by default. Precedent makes this clear. There’s no need for this kind of humiliatingly disingenuous advertising. Yes, all OUR schools are going to lose a little money so the Lt. Governor’s nephew can reap a few bribes, but not as much the state wonks have been stealing away every year for a decade anyway. Now they’re using the very inadequacy they created to justify removing more money from the system!

Education funding is being destroyed in the state of Georgia. I personally hope the score drop with the adoption of common core is going to shock some lackadaisical parents, voters, and school administrators into doing something meaningful about it. This legislation is disappointing but won’t have as big an impact as it appears, it really just gives a few of the politician’s favorite friends the chance to hand out some candy in the form of a few million dollars to corporate clients and what’s a few million more mismanaged when education is underfunded by billions?

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First of all, those of you who refuse to use your real name are so very brave for the personal attacks on those of us who do. I hope you’re proud. “Prof” and others, I’ve lived in GA all my life, paid school taxes for the entire 18 years I homeschooled my children at my own expense, and have worked in the GA chapter of Americans For Prosperity for 6 years. I’ve been involved in the school choice movement in GA for two decades. So who’s a “carpetbagger?” How silly. Let’s focus on doing what’s best for GA students – even if our opinions differ on what that looks like.

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Virginia,

In Cherokee county we obviously have good schools. The schools board rejected the charter school because it did not offer any material extra options for education in Cherokee and also other concerns…..

The state overruled the local school district. We than had an election and the pro charter candidate lost for chair of the board seat by a lot, Janet Reed a school board member that rejected the charter school won.

As a said I get how charter schools are needed in some areas, and if they offer something extra. But if the local voters say no, and we have good schools, why should the state be able to force in a charter school? This makes no fiscal sense, especially when we have other places in the state that really need the help!

Cherokee SAT Scores Surpass State, Nation

…..The Cherokee County School District had the highest SAT district average in the state for the 2011-12 school year….

http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/ccsd-s-sat-district-average-highest-in-georgia

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Virginia Galloway certainly has the right to express her views. And we certainly have the right to ask questions about Ms. Galloway, the organization she works for, and what this organization has been doing since it was founded. I refer to the Koch brothers’ Americans for Prosperity. Virginia Galloway is the director of Americans for Prosperity – Georgia. Art Pope is the national director for Americans for Prosperity. This right-wing, arch-conservative Republican North Carolina millionaire businessman has had a huge impact (one could argue, a huge negative impact) on the concept of traditional public schools and universities in North Carolina. He was outraged over progressive (and successful) efforts to address severe economic disparities that plagued one large public school system in North Carolina, the Wake County School System. This school system is still reeling from Pope’s influence in engineering a major political change in the political makeup of the school board and the undoing of efforts to alleviate economic disparities holding back the advancement of so many students from lower income families and neighborhoods. Pope undertook to change the political makeup of the board from Democrat to Republican. He succeeded. What next occurred is described in a 2011 New Yorker Magazine article about him as follows: “Last year Pope garnered national attention when North Carolina Democrats accused Pope of engineering, in 2009, the re-segregation of public schools in Wake County, which includes Raleigh.” The Republican-controlled board hired former Army General Tony Tata to oversee this process. When the voters reinstated a Democrat-controlled board last Fall, they tried to work with Superintendent Tata to undo much of the damage done under the Republican-controlled board. It did not work.Yesterday, the Wake County Democratic majority on the board voted to terminate his contract. Tata, a former Army General and Republican Fox News political commentator (also previously CFO of the DC school system under Michele Rhee), apparently was reluctant give up his determination to push the Republican right-wing “education reform” agenda so popular with the Koch brothers and Virginia Galloway. The New Yorker article about Pope is entitled: “A Reporter at Large – State for Sale – A conservative multi-millionaire has taken control in North Carolina, one of 2012’s top battlegrounds.” by Jane Mayer, October 10, 2011.Click here for the article:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/10/10/111010fa_fact_mayer

I urge folks to read this article and learn how the Koch brothers and their North Carolina multi-millionaire pal Art Pope (now national director of the Koch brothers AFP and thus Virginia Galloway’s boss) have cut a swath of confusion and mistrust in the North Carolina world of public education. Do we need this in Georgia? No, we don’t. Tell Virginia Galloway, the Koch brothers, and AFP that we vote NO on the Georgia charter school constitutional amendment and the AFP program for “education reform.”

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bigbill,

It speaks volumes to me…that you would direct us to articles and youtube videos attacking the Libertarian Koch brothers that were published/produced by groups funded by George Soros, one of the richest men in the world who has set out to destroy America. Couldn’t those pieces be just a little biased?

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