Using Race to the Top to pay for doctorates in DeKalb. Good idea or are there better uses for federal money?
Several of you have already commented on DeKalb’s plan to use about $345,00 of its taxpayer-funded federal Race to the Top grant to put eight administrators, including four high school principals and two assistant principals, through a three-year doctorate program at the DeKalb campus of Mercer University. So, I figured we ought to put the story out there for general discussion.
The state Department of Education has to sign off on the school system’s proposal to use the RTT funds to underwrite the doctorates and is expected to do so, possibly today.
According to the AJC:
Twenty-five other Georgia school districts also receive Race to the Top grants. But DeKalb is the only one using some grant money earmarked for teacher and school leader training to add to the 130 Ph.D. holders the system already has in leadership roles.
The idea doesn’t sit well with some in DeKalb. “Why as taxpayers should we pay for their Ph.D.s?” asked Robert Richardson, a retired real estate agent. “With a Ph.D., they’ll probably get paid more money. They should pay for their own.”
In Georgia, pay raises are automatic for teachers who get a master’s degree or doctorate in their specialty. Local school districts have discretion to give similar rewards to administrators who attain advanced degrees. A DeKalb school spokesman said there’s been no discussion of that for these eight doctoral candidates, four of whom, as high school principals, make between $85,000 and $111,000 annually.
Cheryl Atkinson, schools superintendent, defends using tax money to pay for the eight administrators to obtain doctorate degrees that teachers and others usually pay for themselves. “We need to begin to build a bench so there are people ready to take on and sustain the reforms that are put in place, ” she said.
The money can’t go to pay bus drivers or fill other budget gaps, Atkinson said. As a condition of the grant, the money has to be spent on training for teachers and school leaders, she said.
David Schutten, president of the Organization of DeKalb Educators, said he had not heard about the district’s plans and would like to know more about how the eight were selected and how the opportunity was advertised. “I think it’s going to cause some resentment when people aren’t getting raises and there’s going to be this select group of people that got picked, ” Schutten said. Schutten said the money might be better spent bringing in good substitute teachers who could free up regular classroom teachers struggling with class management. This would allow the struggling teacher time to observe other teachers “who have it down, ” he said. “With classes of 40 and 50 kids in high school, classroom management is paramount.”
Atkinson said the doctoral program is tailored specifically to address issues unique to DeKalb County, such as its high concentration of refugees and financial problems. About two dozen aspiring leaders completed applications and interviews for the eight openings, Atkinson said.
“We certainly wished we could have had more in the program, ” she said. “But we have to start small and do it well.”
Between 1994 and 1998, the school system put some staff through a doctoral program at Clark Atlanta University, though Atkinson acknowledges she has not investigated to see if that proved to be a worthwhile investment of taxpayer money. “To be honest, I have not drilled backwards, ” she said. “I have so much in front of me.”
The superintendent said there’s also a precedent in the system’s policy of paying for the training for teachers who want to be certified to teach gifted classes. “We offer our teachers the opportunity to receive gifted certification at the district expense because that’s going to make them better at what they do with children, ” she said. “The same goal is to offer something that is going to make these leaders better at what they do and ready to take on a greater challenge when that opportunity presents itself.”
Sonny Jester, former vice chairman of the DeKalb County Public School Foundation, a fundraising organization, said DeKalb has a history of lavishing resources on the administration instead of the classroom. “If that money can be used for something other than Ph.D.s for central office administrators, I think it would be a better use of the money, ” he said.
Those chosen for DeKalb’s program had to commit to stay with the district two or three years after completing their doctorates, said Jeff Dickerson, school system spokesman. Each has been with the district at least 10 years, he said. The eight are enrolled only in evening courses and are expected to complete all their coursework and additional requirements on their own time, Dickerson said.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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94 comments Add your comment
Mortimer Collins
September 21st, 2012
9:21 am
“Cheryl Atkinson, schools superintendent, defends using tax money to pay for the eight administrators to obtain doctorate degrees that teachers and others usually pay for themselves. “We need to begin to build a bench so there are people ready to take on and sustain the reforms that are put in place, ” she said.”
But of course. This woman is no better than her predecessors. DeKalb is permanently sunk.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
9:27 am
My first though is to see the individuals receiving these grants. If they are Central Office “types”, then no this is not, in my view, an appropriate use of the money. However, one of the many issues that DCSD faces is the lack of really good Principals – especially at the high school level. If the district has identified school-based employees that they feel would make good principals, then, I’ll go against popular opinion, and say this could be a good use of the money. From what I understand, there are specific uses tied to RTTT monies and it can’t be used for any “wish-list” items that stakeholders have – am I correct?
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
9:36 am
Oops, I “mis-read”… “including four high school principals and two assistant principals,”…
I can understand Assistant Principals, but individuals who are already principals? How is that “building a bench”?
claytondawg
September 21st, 2012
9:39 am
As usual, a Board of Education has decided to use funds to help out TOP-HEAVY administrators instead of the classroom, which is where the crux of the educational system lies. It’s so incomprehensible to me how taxpayers’ money is utlilized throughout the local, state, and national levels. Ms. Atkinson states: “…using tax money to pay for eight adminitrators to obtain doctorate degrees that teachers and others usually pay for themselves.” There you have it. The Boards of Education have now stepped into another arena where they should not delve. Paying administrators for a PhD who already make a pretty darn good salary compared to the classroom teacher continues and will continue to create distrust and lower morale for teachers. Oh, wait…teachers and low morale seem to be the norm anyway.
Dekalbite
September 21st, 2012
9:40 am
IMHO – the teachers in the RTT schools hold have been asked what they needin the way of staff development. After all, they are the personnel who teach students math, science, social studies and language arts, the content students are send to school to master. Until Dr. Atkinson involves the personnel who are responsible for delivering this content to students, her efforts will come to naught.
It’s very sad for students that aloof this RTT money is coming to DeKalb and yet not a single teacher to directly work with students has been added. Instead, highly paid non teaching Data Coaches and their clerical support seem to be the main use of the money – even more data collected from students and teachers to keep them off task. And now – we have to add on sending administrators back for additional degrees. I would rather principals and administrators go to successful school systems and get a birds eye view of how other systems accomplish the tasks of successfully working with disadvantaged students than pay for their degrees.
Dekalbite
September 21st, 2012
9:42 am
Sorry – should have read
“IMHO – the teachers in the RTT schools should have been asked what they need in the way of staff development”
Renee Lord
September 21st, 2012
9:43 am
The automatic pay increase seems to be the motivating factor for many educators seeking advanced degrees rather than a burning desire to teach children effectively. Tax payers certainly don’t need to be funding advanced, but rather spending these funds training and supporting teachers who are in the classrooms.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
9:47 am
@Renee Lord…would you not consider a top notch principal in each school as “supporting” teachers? I think you would be surprised at the number of teachers who desire and value a competent, supportive, caring principal as head administrator of their school. I say that as I have seen how an incompetent principal can demoralize teachers and parents – even to the point of teachers running, not walking, out of said school.
RAMZAD
September 21st, 2012
9:47 am
DeKalb has never seen a piece of official corruption it did not like.
The Deal
September 21st, 2012
9:59 am
If a family doesn’t have enough to eat, you don’t send the dad to graduate school and let the kids starve while he’s doing it.
It is not my school system’s place to pay for higher degrees for people who already qualified for the job they are in. Does the school system pay for teachers to get their masters degrees? Do we REALLY think that these 8 people can do their full-time jobs and go to school and not spend one bit of their day jobs doing degree-related work? This is more top-down, trickle-down BS from the superintendent. Start with the classroom and go up. Put that RTTT money directly into the classroom or use it to create a program that emulates a successful school system’s in-house development program. I cannot believe this is even something worth debating.
Surrounding school systems have logical in-house leadership development programs that do not confer a Ph.D. on their attendees, cost a fraction of this, reach a larger group of people, and tailor the program to their needs. What successful systems don’t do is pay for a one-way ticket out of the the school system that was stupid enough to pay for it. Even the RTTT adminstrator knows this is an unorthodox (but technically allowable) use of these funds.
[head banging against the wall]
freddythefreeloader
September 21st, 2012
9:59 am
Are you kiddin’ me? What nonsense. The Dekalb school system should be embarrased by this.
The fact that they are trying to defend it is also embarrasing. Cronyism. Once they get their
degrees, they automatically get a raise if I heard right. More taxpayer dime. And a 2 year
commitment. Wow. The citizens of Dekalb are the ones getting “drilled backwards” if
Ms. Atkinson gets away with this. Poor leadership. But then, “when in Rome” Aye?
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
10:02 am
To be honest, I just don’t get it….I was at one of the Parent Roundtables Dr. Atkinson held when she was first hired. More than 1 speaker decried the lack of good Principals in our schools and my guess is that she probably heard that as well at the Teacher Roundtables. So, she hears this and think, ok, here is money that does not come out of the DCSD general budget and can’t be used for everyday use within the schools, that we can use to try and address this issue. And now, people have a problem with this?
You know, I think people just want to be negative about everything that happens with DCSD. I don’t understand, truly, I don’t.
Inman Park Boy
September 21st, 2012
10:07 am
I’ll tell you right now that a PhD is NO guarantee of a “good principal.” Put good leaders in the principal positions, not wall paper doctors.
Progressive Humanist
September 21st, 2012
10:07 am
In addition to this questionable practice from the standpoint of taxpayers, the “PhDs” are likely in leadership, a field in which the degrees aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.
Victor Kulkosky
September 21st, 2012
10:11 am
A number of issues arise here:
1. Is there solid proof that simply getting an advanced degree makes you a better teacher, rather than experience, support and ongoing training?
2. I suspect the proliferation of online advanced education degree programs is related to people’s willingness to pay for the degrees, given the promise of pay raises simply for getting the degrees.
3. All teacher ed programs are not created equal. There are huge differences in academic rigor, qualifications of faculty, resources and so on. If Dekalb insists on sending people to school on the public’s dime, will such factors be considered?
4. How will it be determined that the public’s investment in these Doctors actually paid off? Will the lucky few be required to demonstrate some tangible improvements in their and their school’s performances?
Marney
September 21st, 2012
10:19 am
Actually the part that most floors me is: “to add to the 130 Ph.D. holders that the system already has in leadership roles.” Right there it tells me that a Ph.D. in educational leadership is an oxymoron. If 130 of them can’t supply it, what makes them think 138 will change anything.
seen it all
September 21st, 2012
10:20 am
I agree with Deal. Why should the school system pay people to get doctorate degrees when, 1) their job really doesn’t require it, 2) this newly acquired doctorate degree isn’t going to improve the performance of the people involved OR lead to higher student achievment, and 3) nobody is going to pay me to get a doctorate degree. I paid for all of my schooling, including graduate level work, out of my own pocket.
Most importantly, in the realm of public education, most educators seek graduate degrees for one purpose and one purpose only– AN ADVANCEMENT IN SALARY. The career improvement prospects of higher degrees are minimal, particularly for teachers. With the exception of principals, vice principals, and some central office staff, most people don’t need higher degrees. You can teach with a bachelor’s degree. You learn more studying on your own, taking local professional development, and real life experience in the classroom than you do taking graduate level courses.
All a doctorate of education (Ed. D) is good for is getting a star on your resume.
The Deal
September 21st, 2012
10:22 am
Dunwoody Mom, RTTT talks about principal INDUCTION programs. What Dr. Atkinson is doing is paying for degrees for people who are already in the job. If they are not getting the job done, do you not think there are qualified principal candidates out in the field that we can simply hire? How has spending $45,000 on a degree ever guaranteed success?
“Another blog” provided the link to the Georgia RTTT website. Go look there and see how many other things can be done with the RTTT money. If she is intent on spending money on a leadership training program, then there are many more ways you can do it that will reach more people at less cost. Why does DeKalb always have to make things so difficult? DCSD is not a leader, it is not innovative, it cannot reinvent the wheel. It needs to look at what other successful school systems of its size do and COPY THEM.
Disgusted in Dekalb
September 21st, 2012
10:26 am
As soon as the principals and assistant principals get these taxpayer-funded degrees, they will grab the first central office position that becomes available to them. This is not only NOT a good use of taxpayer dollars (and federal RTTT funds ARE taxpayer dollars), it will actually lead to a more top-heavy DCSS. Horrendous idea.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
10:29 am
@The Deal…I made the statement earlier that current principals should not be involved in this. If they need to “further their education” in order to be a good principal, then they shouldn’t be a principal now…but as we all know, DCSD does not have enough good principals to “go around”.
do you not think there are qualified principal candidates out in the field that we can simply hire?
No, I don’t. I doubt seriously there are enough “good” principals “out there” to be hired. Despite what some want to believe, there is a vacuum of good principals in every local school district, not just in DeKalb. Do I think this is the “best” way of creating a bench? I don’t know, maybe not, but at least the effort is being made and maybe, just maybe, the school district can get away from putting supremely unqualified individuals into Principal jobs.
Follow the Course
September 21st, 2012
10:37 am
“Over education” is not a good thing. Educators learn and “repeat” what was taught. It is doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome ieach time … well this idea to “grant” PhD’s … is just plain crazy.
Original thinkers are not allowed in this process because they have to conform to the thinking of their predecessors.
Ernest
September 21st, 2012
10:40 am
Dunwoody Mom, I agree with your comment at 10:02am. I’ve heard many throughout the community speak about the ‘leadership void’ is many schools. We’ve seen the formula of someone working in the classroom for 3-5 years then looking to get into leadership. I don’t begrudge anyone wanting to be a school leader (along with increasing their salary) but I don’t believe this ‘fast track’ we’ve seen in recent years has benefited student achievement. I always understood the principal to be the instructional leader for the school. Perhaps we as citizens have turned it into more of a management role. If RTTT allows money to be spent for investing in leadership development, what’s this big deal with the model DeKalb chooses?
I could sit back and ‘nitpick’ every decision a superintendent makes however at some point I have to acknowledge they are the education professional. I’m no better than some Board members if I will micromanage every decision that is made. Just because other school districts are not doing this does not make this wrong. As I understand, this has been done before in the 90’s. If there are lessons to be learned from that, hopefully they can be applied.
StnMtnMOM
September 21st, 2012
10:51 am
@Inman Park Boy-My sentiments exactly. There is absolutely no guarantee the Principals and/or Asst. Principals (with a PhD) will lead our schools to victory in every classroom or simply pad their pockets and see them leave after the 2 yr. requirement. I wonder how many principals or asst. principals had PhDs back in the 80s (when I attended HS). I would guess not half of them and they truly lead with precision and dedication. As long as Dekalb say they are putting the students first and not showing that on a consistent basis..they will always encounter discord and backlash from the stakeholders.
Gail
September 21st, 2012
10:52 am
I don’t think that a doctorate guarantees a better leader. But if the RTT people say it is ok, is there a condition that once they get the degrees that they have to they stay in that position or at least stay in the DeKalb School System for a specific period of time? Otherwise,what’s to prevent them from having DeKalb(RTT) pay for their doctorate and then get a job somewhere else for higher pay?
Renee Lord
September 21st, 2012
10:54 am
@Gail-Even if there is a requirement that says the educator has to stay, do you really want someone working for the system who is ready to move on? Yet, another reason this is a poor use of tax dollars.
Maureen Downey
September 21st, 2012
10:55 am
@To all, A DeKalb teacher sent me this note about the use of RTT funds for doctorates:
catlady
September 21st, 2012
10:56 am
Absolutely, totally inappropriate! If money needs to be spent for training, it should be the boots on the ground teachers! And at a private college!? Totally insane! If these “administrators” don’t already know what they are doing, GET THEM OUT OF ADMINISTRATION!
If I had a dog in this race, I would be SOOO mad!
catlady
September 21st, 2012
10:56 am
WTH, I am mad anyway! How tone deaf can they be?
Pride and Joy
September 21st, 2012
11:10 am
THis should be illegal. RTTT should be used to hire real educated teachers to relieve overcrowded classrooms, not enrich the rich.
catlady
September 21st, 2012
11:15 am
Yeah, when I think of an outstanding ed leadership program, I first think, “Mercer!”
At least the folks (Chosen Few) should sign on with an agreement to 1) work as a principal or AP for 5 years for Dekalb after getting the degree, 2) forego any “additional income” during those 5 years and 3) if they “have” to leave early they will repay the funds spent on their behalf.
Miss Management
September 21st, 2012
11:17 am
” build a bench” – hmmm. Who says these people will end up being ‘great’ just due to this program? Leadership can’t always be ‘taught’ – great leaders are natural leaders. Wouldn’t it be easier – and MUCH faster – to just do a national search and HIRE some PROVEN leaders to lead our struggling schools? These degrees will take 3 years. Then more time will go by as these new ‘leaders’ ramp up. This could be a 5 year plan! Students and teachers need great principals today!
Ernest
September 21st, 2012
11:29 am
@Maureen, I don’t think anyone will disagree with the comments shared by the DeKalb Teacher. We know the keys to instructional success start with early learning opportunities, emphasizing reading and phonics. This can be best done in small learning groups.
The reality is that property tax revenues have shrunk substantially, partially due to the housing crisis. Given 90% of school budgets are salaries and compensation, personnel will be impacted . As we discussed in the Fayette blog yesterday, they are having similar challenges with school closings to remedy budget shortfalls in addition to across the board salary cuts. I was surprised to read that some of their citizens believe their Board is dysfunctional but that is for the media to report.
Tough decisions have to be made with regards to how to use fewer dollars. I still contend that DeKalb has way to many schools and needs to go on an aggressive program to close and consolidate. What do you believe the community reaction will be if this is proposed? You sat in those meetings in DeKalb a few years ago so you recall the emotion in the room. Again, we saw what just happened in Fayette.
I don’t like the class sizes today but what options do we have given the revenue reductions? I agree with Dr. Trotter that firmly addressing discipline could make current class sizes an easier pill to swallow but that is not a long term solution. I’m waiting to read/hear about a workable solution that can be done within the current budget and does not compromise any federal or state laws.
Mom of 3
September 21st, 2012
11:36 am
Dekalb County schools are in crisis. I don’t understand why the people who are running it do not see this. If your family was close to bankruptcy, would you go out and buy food for your children? Or would you buy a new washing machine/dryer. It’s not that educating these 8 people is a terrible thing. It’s that there are so many more basic needs that the county leaders are ignoring. The new washing machine would be great. But the old one still works. When you are able to get your financial house in order, then you buy the washing machine. Dekalb County leaders need to stop pretending that everything is fine and face what is really going on.
College Professor
September 21st, 2012
12:15 pm
What an appalling waste of money made even more egregious by wasting it on worthless degrees. And let us not forget that the school board raised taxes this year because it did not have enough money to run the system.
The whole situation stinks.
Another Math Teacher
September 21st, 2012
12:21 pm
Theft.
Leadership certificates and Education degrees, especially at the L-5, L-6, and L-7 levels are worthless. They are just there to get a raise. The 3 Rs in Education. Read. Regurgitate. Raise.
If you call a PhD or EdD in Education a Doctor, make sure to use air quotes.
Terry Krugman
September 21st, 2012
12:26 pm
I am a 20 + year veteran of the DCSS. I have two adanced degrees and am certified in three fields. Over the last few years I have attended numerous workshops and conferences to enhance my skills and content knowledge. All of this was done at my own expense and there were numerous times when I was the sole self-funded participant. The only time I requested reimbursement, the county ‘lost’ the paperwork. I have very little faith in how the central office handles money and selects candidates
Teacher Reader
September 21st, 2012
12:27 pm
Dunwoody Mom, A PhD, EdD or any other higher level degree does not make a good, quality principal. Degrees do not make a principal great. Principals are great because they put children and teachers above the BS in the school district.
These people were hand picked and are most likely friends and family, who will get an automatic pay raise at the completion of this degree. They will use school time to do their work and the children will lose out.
I thought that you were smarter than to equate a quality principal with an advanced degree.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
12:31 pm
@Teacher Reader….I did not equate a quality principal with an advanced degree…My point was, that hopefully, this is an avenue where the school district can identify and educate AP’s and Teachers (I don’t believe that current Principals should be part of this offering) who would make good Principals in a school district that is so, so void of good Principals.
So, is there a reason you took my words and twisted them to suit your point? That kind of nonsense belongs on another blog.
2nd Year Teacher
September 21st, 2012
12:36 pm
Total BS.
I have to pay for color paper, printer cartridges, hand santitizer, dry-erase markers, etc. out of my own pocket, but APs and principals get education for free.
concernedmom30329
September 21st, 2012
12:42 pm
This money could be used to impact 100s of administrators and teachers. Instead, it will benefit 8. DeKalb has some of the lowest test scores in the metro area (even among like populations) and this is how it chooses to use funds that must be used for professional development?
Across the country, there are professionals making strides with poor and disadvantaged students They run schools where students are achieving, despite their disadvantages. Why not bring in some of these folks to work with our teachers and our principals?
bu2
September 21st, 2012
12:47 pm
They could do a lot more with this money even if used for training. They are simply spending it on 8 people. Not sure how much 345,00 is (I’m assuming Maureen put the comma in the wrong place and its 34,500), but you could put 170 people in a $200 course for $34,000.
Teacher Reader
September 21st, 2012
12:47 pm
@ Dunwoody Mom, These people were hand picked, you think that they picked good principals to get these degrees, or do you think friends and family were chosen for more salary increases. Sorry but I doubt that people were chosen because they were already good principals. That doesn’t happen in DeKalb. It’ always who you know.
Can we afford to give Atkinson the benefit of the doubt? NO!!!! Our children’s futures are at stake here. We cannot afford to have any more children be useful idiots who can barely read, write, and do basic math. We need thinkers, questioners, problem solvers. We don’t need more people with advanced degrees. We need our focus to be on providing a quality education and teaching our children how to think and problem solve, not take a stupid test.
Sorry, but every good principal that I ever worked for never had a PhD. The degree does not make the person great or even good. Mercer is not the place where I’d think one would get a good or even decent advanced education degree, although these degrees really aren’t worth the paper they are printed on, and are only valuable in giving the paper holder more money.
Teacher Reader
September 21st, 2012
12:52 pm
Race to the Top dollars are tax dollars, your money and my money. We all need to email those involved in the GA Department of Education and Race to the Top and tell them how we feel about DeKalb wanting to use tax dollars to fund higher salaries for a certain few, instead of spending it directly on things that could benefit the children in failing schools more directly.
Even if you’re not in DeKalb you should be outraged that Atkinson wants to use YOUR money this way. This is an outrageous and our voices need to be heard loud and clear!
Teresa MacCartney
Deputy Superintendent
Race to the Top Implementation
Email: tmaccartney@doe.k12.ga.us
Jon Rogers
Race to the Top Communications/Information
Email: jonrogers@gadoe.org
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
12:53 pm
@Teacher Reader, I don’t know the names of the individuals who were chosen, do you?
Again, I never indicated that having a PhD makes a person great or good. What’s wrong with Mercer?
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
12:57 pm
We all need to email those involved in the GA Department of Education and Race to the Top and tell them how we feel about DeKalb wanting to use tax dollars to fund higher salaries for a certain few
Well, considering that the grant money being used here can only be used for training teachers or school leaders, I’m not sure those entities will be too interested in your email. You may not agree with how Dr. Atkinson is using this money, but, from what I understand, her use of it does not violate any terms of the RTTT grant.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
12:59 pm
But, if her use does violate the grant terms, the GADOE will disallow its use.
Maureen Downey
September 21st, 2012
1:14 pm
@Dunwoody, I did a panel at the Mercer ed grad school last year and was very impressed with the faculty I met there.
Maureen
Teacher Reader
September 21st, 2012
1:21 pm
Dunwoody Mom, it’s our money and taxpayers have a right to voice their desire to have it impact the most students and to help these children receive a quality education.
According to the DOE Race to the Top funds are to be used to:
1. Recruiting, preparing, rewarding, and retaining effective teachers and principals, especially where they are needed most; and
2. Adopting standards and assessments that prepare students to succeed in college and the workplace and to compete in the global economy;
3. Building data systems that measure student growth and success, and inform teachers and principals about how they can improve instruction;
4. Turning around our lowest–achieving schools.
These individuals already hold their administration certification, so adding a PhD to their credentials does not fit number one, and goes against the purpose and intent of these funds.
The Deal
September 21st, 2012
1:27 pm
@bu2, it’s $345,000. As in, $45,000 per person.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
1:27 pm
@Teacher Reader,,,I am not disputing that you have a right to voice your thoughts…go for it….
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
1:31 pm
Maureen, I’ve always thought of Mercer as a good University…it’s small, private and associated (or used to be) with the Southern Baptist Convention.
The Deal
September 21st, 2012
1:35 pm
Very interesting new information. The “other blog” has posted a link to the actual proposal DeKalb sent into the state:
http://dekalbschoolwatch.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/addendum_1_rt3_leadership_development_proposal_final1.docx
Note that a whopping $236,000 of the request is to hire new central office personnel to administer the entire Leadership program (director, coordinator, and administrative assistant). The Mercer coursework appears to total $150,000.
Pigs at the RTTT trough.
CTPAT
September 21st, 2012
1:40 pm
Dunwoody Mom, I agree that we need development at our AP and P levels. That being said, choosing a path that will only assist 8 people as opposed to development opportunities that could have benefited many more seems incredibly short-sighted and as if the intent behind the funding is not being met. Given the terrible state that we find our system in, one would have hoped that the decision-makers would have selected a broader alternative. As always, though, Dekalb appears to have chosen a path that only benefits a few.
Mountain Man
September 21st, 2012
1:52 pm
“I’ll tell you right now that a PhD is NO guarantee of a “good principal.” Put good leaders in the principal positions, not wall paper doctors.”
I agree 100%! Will this new Ph.D. program teach principals how to support teachers by making sure discipline problems are well and truly solved before the student is returned to a classroom? Will this Ph.D. program teach principals how to get students to ACTUALLY come to school? Will this Ph.D. program teach principals how to stand up to pushy parents and keep them off teachers’ backs? Will this Ph. D. program teach principals how to keep students who have not mastered grade level work from being socially promoted?
The truth is you don’t need a Ph. D. program to tell you how to do these things. They are generally self-evident. Just no one in administration has the gonads to implement the needed changes.
HS Public Teacher
September 21st, 2012
1:54 pm
Better ideas for the money….
1. Pay the teachers. Stop the furlough days and actually honor the contracts of the teachers!
2. Start paying into Social Security for teachers.
3. Set aside a fund to pay for substitute teachers. This time for the teachers can be used for real collaboration to improve lessons for students.
4. Reduce class sizes!!! Hire more teachers.
Mountain Man
September 21st, 2012
1:54 pm
“I’ve always thought of Mercer as a good University…it’s small, private and associated (or used to be) with the Southern Baptist Convention.”
Used to be.
catlady
September 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
Wait a minute! It would be easier to just buy the “Great Eight” a fancy Escalade. After all, that would give the children something to aspire to, and they would work so much harder if they thought they would some day get a fine car like that! Let’s use some more RTTT money for that!
DrKEdD
September 21st, 2012
3:08 pm
This is the largest slap I can receive! I left DeKalb this year because instead of receiving a contract, I received a letter that said my contract was under review. At a meeting, the Human Resource officer told me and other colleagues that our per diem pay, if annualized out, (meaning multiplied by the number of days “SHE” worked), would mean I get paid more than her. And she said, “We need everyone back in line.” So the goal was clear. The reduction in salary was NOT to save money on a budget. It was to make sure I knew my place. How dare anyone make more money per day than her.
So I decided to take my talents elsewhere. I had to think about my own children. And I am a REALLY GOOD teacher! They did offer me a contract at the end of May, in breach of the state ordinance that said it had to be offered in April (the state did grant an additional 30 days and it was actually even after that…but the letter was dated the correct date!). It resulted in a 3 year, $20,000 decrease in pay AND I was told, I should be happy that I have a job at all! And oh, by the way, in July we will send you a letter stating your REAL salary. The numbers on this contract are subject to change due to availability of funds.According to colleagues who stayed, they were rolled back to 2006 pay.
I liken my experience as a DeKalb county teacher to that of living in a politically unstable country. When you wake up in the morning, you never know who the government is and what they will do to you!
So now, these decision makers are going to take $345,000 of taxpayer money and select 8 people (ofcourse the selection will be done fairly and everyone on the staff will get to apply for these scholarships) to get doctorates. Unlike most of the people that made these decisions, I am working towards a REAL doctorate from a REAL school. No mail order/long distance/online garbage here! I PAY FOR IT!!! No member of my fraternal or sorority organization is going to pad my career. And my goal is to become YOUR bosses and REALLY straighten things up!
Parents, last year we waited until mid winter before any of our supply requests were approved because there was a budget crisis in DeKalb. But we were spending money hand over fist on crap just like this…all while the superintendent was screaming NO FUNDS…Ahhh!!! We had a personnel audit to catch people who were on payroll that didn’t exist. Whatever came of that? And now the same decisions makers in DeKalb are going to buy doctorates for 8 of their friends with your credit card. SHAME ON YOU ALL! How many staff members could you rehire with that $345,000 that would directly effect teaching and learning? Hell, code them as trainers! I hope the SACS people can help the children of DeKalb County. I pray that the decision makers in DeKalb get the eye opener they truly need. You are lost in your own personal glory! Find some humility!
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
@The Deal…thanks for the link, but which part of this document deals with what we are discussing here? I know the Aspiring Leadership Academy was discussed and the individuals involved were identified back at the June BOE meeting, there were 20, I believe – teachers and AP’s. I believe this document to be an overall framework for Leadership Development and not specifically for the Mercer doctorate program.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
Ok, wait…I see this must be the “Executive Leadership Academy”…got it…
The Deal
September 21st, 2012
3:42 pm
@DM, quick on the draw
Yes, from what I can tell, the Executive Leadership Academy = Mercer Ph.D. program
Student Advocate
September 21st, 2012
3:47 pm
Isn’t there a shortage of highly qualified science teachers? How about using the money to pay for a content area cohort for, in another’s words, teachers with boots on the ground!
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
3:47 pm
All right, so I can get behind the Aspiring Leaders Academy, the New Principal Induction Program and the Administrator Development Program. I may have to rethink this Executive Leadership Academy, because well, frankly, I don’t want to hear any more about “Central Office Positions” for a long, long time – until the schoolhouse leaders are taken care of, i.e. small classes, better pay.
I reserve the right to change my mind.
cris
September 21st, 2012
3:48 pm
unbelievable…just unbelievable. DeKalb will reap what it is sowing…sooner rather than later I do believe.
Disgusted in Dekalb
September 21st, 2012
4:09 pm
Why in the world do we need “a bench”? I know—it’s to replace central office folks who get indicted.
Lance
September 21st, 2012
4:09 pm
This sounds political to me…just like the whole Erase to the Top program! Governor Shady Deal opposed the money and then changed his mind. Now, he and his minions are using the funds as play money while they continue to short school systems on funding in favor of charter segregation schools.
High School Parent
September 21st, 2012
4:14 pm
I have to agree with all the other posters: An EdD or PhD in education or educational leadership has no correlation with good principals or even good leadership. This is not something learned in a classroom and we have more pressing needs for this money.
Please use the money for middle school math and science teachers to get a masters degree in their subject matter (not education). Many middle school and upper elementary school teachers admit that they do not have a solid math or science education. They know how to teach but are unsure of themselves as our system moves into a new, and frankly more advanced, curricula.
And NO more central office positions to “manage” another program or experiment. We NEED TEACHERS.
Maureen Downey
September 21st, 2012
4:51 pm
@To all, Received this note from a reader and have asked DeKalb to verify. But, in the meantime, here is the info from the reader on the eight doctoral candidates:
Disgusted in Dekalb
September 21st, 2012
4:53 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with High School Parent’s suggestion.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
5:01 pm
Yes, Maureen, if you look at the document that “The Deal” posted, this is what it says about the program in question:
This academy is designed to support leaders who are seeking central office positions in order to facilitate school improvement and increase student achievement.
In my view, this particular program needs to be jettisoned. I believe the other programs outlined have value.
Maureen Downey
September 21st, 2012
5:08 pm
@To Dunwoody, Read the RTT proposal from DeKalb and saw that phrase, although it is not specific to what those positions would be. Wondering if the proposal means new positions or, as the school chief suggests in the AJC news story, qualified replacements for current jobs.
Maureen
Claudia Stucke
September 21st, 2012
5:41 pm
I agree, “It seems to me that until enough teachers are involved in the discussions and decision-making little will change.” But must they have PhDs in order to to become part of the decision-making process? It’s certainly not a requirement to be on the school board. Educators should have some input as well. These are the people who are actually in the trenches and have some perspective on the realities of the classroom and beyond.
In a faculty workshop led by a so-called “expert” from High Schools that Work, one of my colleagues asked, “That sounds like a great strategy, but what if you have some students in your class who read at an elementary-school level?” His response was quick and incredulous: “Well, students who read at a fifth-grade level shouldn’t be in ninth grade!” And yet they are–not just in ninth grade but in every grade and in just about every class, even “gifted.” (My coworker taught eleventh-grade English.) Regardless of the expert’s level of education or experience, I don’t believe that his response would have come from anyone who had been in a public high school classroom.
Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
5:59 pm
At the risk of being called a “flip-flopper”, I’m going to say that I have no problem using RTT money to allow teachers to become more knowledgable, or furthering their education as they have direct impact on our students. I don’t have a problem spending this money on identifying and training individuals for principal positions, but a PhD for Central Office positions? Come on now – this is totally uncessary and not a good use of .this money
Pride and Joy
September 21st, 2012
6:02 pm
you don’t need a doctorate to be a school principal.
this is waste fraud abuse and sinful!
Pride and Joy
September 21st, 2012
6:03 pm
we need to spend ALL that money to hire teachers to make classroom size shrink.
no mas @ Dunwoody Mom
September 21st, 2012
7:11 pm
I’m glad you were able to read the proposal. There will be no benefit to the students and teachers if these eight people get their PhDs; only benefit to the “bench”ees and the CO.
As has been suggested in other posts, the money should be used to benefit the students – by paying for advanced degrees in some of our weak areas (math, science and technology education), by paying for teachers to go to outside training, by paying for subs so many teachers can go to a local training, by finding an EFFECTIVE, PROVEN discipline training for in-the-school administration (and allowing them to use it)… I am sure there are plenty more.
Mercer Parent & Public School Teacher
September 21st, 2012
7:27 pm
As a parent of a Mercer undergraduate, I think it might be interesting to compare Mercer’s $42,000. per year cost of attendance with UGA’s $20,000. Why not send public school employees to public colleges as long as public funds are footing the bill? The difference between private and public colleges is tremendous. Graduate school cost of attendance is much higher in private colleges as well. Does Mercer offer a specific course of study that is not offered at Georgia State or UGA?
Pardon My Blog
September 21st, 2012
8:30 pm
Atkinson is just an extension of Crawdaddy and his entourage. She does not have a clue as to what she is doing.
big picture
September 21st, 2012
8:35 pm
We did have some good APs. Some who were better than the principals that they served under. It is my understanding that many were jettisoned in order to “make room” for some of those who were cut through central office and Fernbank reductions. Why not pull from this pool of APs that we know were doing good work who were demoted to lower level positions to make room for those who were more interested in central office chairs than doing the work with the students.
In another vein, I am wondering how many people feel that a 10 day suspension is reasonable for students in a fight that ended up with an SRO being sidelined for several months because of injuries suffered as a result of attempting to break up the fight? 10 days. The officer will be off duty for several months. I am wondering if I am too “hard line” for feeling that these kids shouldn’t be allowed back into that particular school house at all. I do not, admittedly, know all of the facts, but this seems lenient to me.
drew (former teacher)
September 21st, 2012
9:15 pm
Dunwoody Mom is correct regarding the need for better principals. There is nothing more important to a teacher than a rational, competent, no nonsense, administrator. And than nothing more damaging to a school than a weak administrator.
But advanced degrees won’t fill that need. Dekalb needs principals who will take control of their schools, create an environment conducive to learning, remove the students who destroy the learning environment, make efforts to rid the school of bad teachers, and support the good ones.
Unfortunately, even a principal who WANTS to do this wouldn’t last long, regardless of the number of degrees they have. It’s just not politically correct. Most principals “play the game” until they get to the promise land (Central Office baby!). Many don’t give a rip about students, much less the teachers.
Since the general consensus seems to be that all of the problems in education are due to bad teaching, wouldn’t it make sense to spend those funds training TEACHERS? Only in Dekalb…
Married with (School) Children
September 21st, 2012
10:20 pm
Maureen, while Mercer’s Ed.D. program is accredited by NCATE, Mercer only offers a single Ed.D. program: Curriculum/Instruction.
Compare that to UGA in Athens — UGA, also accredited by NCATE, offers Ed.D.programs in Art, Career/Vocational, Curriculum/Instruction, English/Language Arts, ESL/TESOL, Foreign Languages, Gifted & Talented, History/Social Studies, Math, Music, Reading/Literacy, Science, and Special Education.
Over in Cobb County, Kennesaw State’s NCATE accredited program offers Ed.D programs in Administration, English/Language Arts, Instructional Technology, Math, and Special Ed.
In downtown Atlanta, Georgia State’s NCATE accredited program offers Ed.D degrees in Administration, Art, Curriculum/Instruction, English/Language Arts, History/Social Studies, Instructional Technology, Math, Music, Phys Ed/Health, Reading/Literacy, School Counseling/Psychology, Science, Special Ed, and Speech/Communications
I trust this will explain why posters (like CatLady) do not think of Mercer as having an outstanding education leadership program!
The real question is this: Why send eight employees to get identical degrees in Curriculum/Instruction when Atkinson could instead send them to another program and end up with eight experts in different areas: 1 could have an Ed.D in Career/Vocational, 1 in English/Language Arts, 1 in ESL/TESOL, 1 in Foreign Languages, 1 in Gifted & Talented, 1 in History/Social Studies, 1 in Math, and 1 in Reading/Literacy.
Which option do you think would have the greater impact on the schools?
Furthermore, as the Dekalb School Watch 2 discovered, it is a incredibly disgusting waste of money to hire 3 new employees in the central office to administer a “training program” that is only sending eight students to get identical degrees from the same school.
Jo
September 21st, 2012
11:12 pm
According to comments on DeKalb School Watch blog [dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com] what we are really talking about is more than half a million dollars. Actually more than a million dollars. Atkinson has added $266,000 for a director, staff and secretary to support the 8 people she handpicked to get their doctorates at a cost of $345,000. So, that totals — cha-ching! — $611,000.
But, wait! There’s more. Is the $266,000 an annual figure? It likely is. If so, then multiply that by at least three and you get $798,000 just for office staff. Now we are at an overall total of — cha-ching! — $1,143,000. The way DeKalb County School System is being looted, the superintendent and her minions will find a way to keep those positions in place indefinitely.
This is probably the same old shell game that’s been played all along with the bloated central office — now you see ‘em, now you don’t!
Call Me Missouri
September 22nd, 2012
8:16 am
Why would Dr. Atkinson only ask for a three year commitment? Why not 5 years? Especially since everyone knows they will be bumped up in pay for their FREE advanced degrees. Yes, let us give these individuals even MORE money in addition to their free doctoral degree. Additionally, after seeing Jo’s post (September 21, 11:12 pm) this is too much money for this so called leadership program/ pet project. WHO ARE THESE “LEADERS?” Who came up with this idea? Did Dr. Atkinson choose these individuals herself (ha ha)? If she didn’t, who did select them and what were the criteria? Were any board members involved? If they were, I’m even more suspicious. How long have these “leaders” been employed in DCSD? How long have they been administrators? How long did they work as classroom teachers? Why weren’t teachers (especially math and science teachers) offered this opportunity? I think DeKalb Schools and Dr. Atkinson could find a better use for this money right now in our schools. Especially in the midst of a financial crisis unlike any we have previously experienced. Even more troubling to me is why would these individuals be allowed to begin their course of study (at their expense) without approval from the state for this program? Have they received loans or are they paying themselves? As usual, the powers that be did not think things through. The lack of foresight of those involved in this whole scheme is very disturbing. SACS and the state needs to take note. This isn’t good stewardship IMO.
dekalbed
September 22nd, 2012
8:25 am
Am I the only one wanting these questions answered?
1. If the 130 administrators (or leaders? I can’t keep up with the name/title changes) already holding doctorates aren’t good enough, why are we paying them salaries double or triple what classroom teachers are making?
2. How did the superintendent’s A-team, especially the ones in finance and strategic management and accountability (I think that’s the title) determine that this was a financially feasible initiative? Even if the state does approve this use of RTT, Dekalb will be footing the bill for higher salaries, won’t it? The superintendent’s comparison to gifted funding is specious. Gifted certification doesn’t result in a teacher pay raise, but it does result in the county getting more money when it offers more gifted services (even if the poor gifted students get nothing othe than smaller (27 now?) classes.
3. How would these 8 people be able to impact student achievement? No matter how good a plan looks on paper, if you don’t have the manpower and resources, it won’t fly.
This teacher is having a hard time believing this newest revelation, the balanced calendar are “Victories in any classroom.”
JD
September 22nd, 2012
10:48 am
I am a teacher in Dekalb. For the last three years almost all of our staff development has been done in the school house because the furlough days have replaced our staff development days. This is usually done during our planning time or at faculty meetings at the end of the day. It is usually not well done because of the time limitations. The meetings and training interfere with our ability to plan and prepare for our classes. In addition to trying to help us become better teachers our leaders must also do mandatory training for the new teacher evaluation system and the new common core curriculum. We go to a lot of training and meetings. Using the money to pay subs would be a better use of the money. Then teachers could attend staff development without taking away planning time and after school time (when a lot of teachers do class work or sponsor a club or team). I personally am tired of canceling time with my team so that I can go to another training.
Lee
September 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
It always amazes me the emphasis people place on pieces of paper hanging on the wall. You could be the most incompetent boob in the building, but if you had the letters behind your name, they seem to be impressed.
From time to time, we have external entities such as auditors or regulators who request our staff qualifications. They seem to be impressed with my MBA and multiple certifications, including a CPA.
If they only knew…..
What is distressing about paying for a few individuals doctorate is the attitude of “it’s federal money, so we have to spend it on something…”
No, it’s TAXPAYER money that was forcibly taken from me under threat of penalty. As a GOVERNMENT entity, you have the DUTY to be good stewards of that money.
Grade: F
Goodteacher
September 22nd, 2012
11:53 am
I am speechless. Since school started I have avoided reading too much about my employers. It distracts me from the job I love and feel called to do. Paying for PhD’s? Most AP’s and principals that are working on their degree simply go in their office, shut the blinds, shut the door and spend the day doing their schoolwork, and now we are going to pay for it too? That’s okay, the teachers are fine, really we are. We are more than qualified to teach a class where at least 1/3 do not speak English, and no they do not speak Spanish either. It is okay really, the ELL teacher will take them out of the room for 30 minutes, bring them back to us and ask us what are we doing to help this child because “he cannot speak any English!” The money should go to administrators …why not? The students are just numbers for the FTE count. The teachers well, we do not mind more work, less pay, more demands and constantly changing curriculums. I will be there on Monday work 10 hours, come home, worry about meeting everyone’s needs in my class. Get up do it again on Tuesday…all the way through Friday.
unbelievable….simply unbelievable.
MB
September 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
Since there is already a program in place, so you’d think there would not be a need to hire new administrators at CO, why would DCSS not use that money to deliver more endorsement add-ons for ELL and TAG. Would that not benefit more students more directly? (As others have not, adding such endorsements add to a teacher’s knowledge base, not their paycheck, as do the PhDs, and my guess is that funds, both RTTT and local, would be used more effectively in expanding the base of teacher expertise than providing free doctorates for people around earning in the $90K plus range…
MB
September 22nd, 2012
3:24 pm
As others have noted…)
Concerned
September 22nd, 2012
9:11 pm
I feel Ms Atkinson’s justification for the use of Race to the Top funds to further the education of 8 Dekalb administrators flimsy at best. She cites spending money to train teachers for Gifted Endorsements. These teachers work directly with students and directly impacts student achievement. I fail to see how furthering the earning potential of these 8 employees will impact student achievement in any way. She also cites the systems financial concerns and expanding the “bench to take on and sustain the reforms that are put in place”. What exactly is this bench and the reforms that need to be sustained? Is there no other way or personnel in dekalb currently or in the future able to sustain these reforms ? With over 130 PhD/EdD currently on the payroll, are there none who can carry on with these reforms?
I believe this money would be better used to training of classroom teachers who directly impact student achievement.
There are many ways to tackle financial problems and challenges that come with high ESOL enrollment but spending 385,000 on 8 adults instead of the students of Dekalb County brings into question the prudent use of taxpayer money.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
September 23rd, 2012
8:15 pm
Somebodies need to audit the various and sundry state and federal education-improvement programs including, but not limited to, RTTT and Title I.
scipeach
September 23rd, 2012
8:33 pm
Here is the really sad part about this decision.
Myself and many other colleagues with advanced degrees would gladly step up to the plate/bench to take on whatever it is Atkinson has in mind but we are not interested in become central office cushions. We are interested in real and lasting change that directly benefits the students.
Did she or any of her staff ask us? Nope. Did they even approach the employees that already have advanced degrees? They are paying us extra for these degrees, why not at least survey us about our expertise? Trust me; some of us (not all) are actually real scholars!
The so-called “executive leadership academy” was rigged from the start. There are many talented people in the system but unless you are a brown-noser or a personal favorite of a decision maker you are ignored no matter what good you try to do for your school or students.
I remain in this system only because I care about my students but it is difficult to remain optimistic day after day in the midst of such incompetence.
FORMER DEKALB PARENT!
September 25th, 2012
11:54 am
This is EXACTLY WHY I left Dekalb.. Nonsense like this!!!! and for the
FORMER DEKALB PARENT!
September 25th, 2012
11:57 am
one DUNWOODY MOM, we are simply saying that if they already have advanced degrees and they are not directly dealing with kids, then it SHOULD go to help teachers get more training to effectively help the STUDENTS!!! not their pockets!!!!!! RIDICULOUS.. again, sooooooo glad I left this county.. My children are so much more important than the nice house I had, beautiful neighbors, etc… We decided to put our children first and now we are SOOOO MUCH HAPPIER in another school district.. Good riddens!!!!!!