Are we pushing kids into the school-to-prison pipeline with suspensions?
Many schools maintain a push and pull approach to attendance. One one hand, school administrators make extensive efforts to push parents to get their children to class.
Yet, schools adhere to suspension policies that pull students out of their seats for minor infractions. In 2010, U.S. schools suspended more than 3 million students in kindergarten through 12th grade. And many of those students were minorities and children with disabilities, according to a new analysis of data from the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights.
The review by the Civil Rights Project at the University of California, Los Angeles, found one in six African-American students was suspended from school, more than three times the rate of their white counterparts. Those findings are creating significant concern as school suspensions are linked to retention, lower graduation rates and funneling kids into what is known as the “school-to-prison pipeline.”
The analysis also found that more than 13 percent of students with disabilities were suspended, twice the rate of their non-disabled classmates. It also showed that one out of every four black children with disabilities was suspended at least once in 2009-2010.
The typical response is that black students misbehave more but the research refutes that contention. Instead, studies show that black students are punished more severely when they misbehave and for infractions that are often judgment calls — talking back or showing disrespect.
Students are increasingly suspended for nonviolent infractions such as truancy, dress code violations, inappropriate language, insubordination and disruptions.
“A driver in the increase in suspensions and expulsions has been the rise of zero-tolerance polices in the late 1980s and early ’90s,” said Russell Skiba of the Center for Evaluation and Education Policy at Indiana University on a conference call on the UCLA findings.
The UCLA analysis found disparate suspension rates across schools and among schools with similar demographics. “A number of districts in the same state don’t have high rates of the use of suspension and expulsion,” said Skiba. “The use of suspension and expulsion is, in fact, a choice.”
And it’s a bad one, said Tina Dove of the National Opportunity to Learn Campaign, an advocacy group supporting a moratorium on out-of-school school suspensions. Launched in late August, the “Solutions Not Suspension” campaign urges schools to adopt in-school disciplinary alternatives, especially for lesser infractions.
“As a former teacher, I know firsthand the negative impact of kids being out of school, out of their chairs on suspension,” Dove said in a telephone interview. “Every day, we are seeing more and more situations where children are sent out of school for random and capricious offenses. It is too severe — it is like imposing a life sentence for behaviors that are all too often a part of growing up.”
Dove understands her colleagues still in the classroom may disagree and tell her that the price of reduced suspensions is a higher tolerance of bad behaviors. And that leads to classes held hostage to troublemakers.
“This is by no means a call to ignore the elephant in the room,” said Dove. “There is no doubt that a disruptive child in the class makes the job of the teacher more difficult and makes it more difficult for the students trying to learn. But going to the opposite extreme — let’s just throw them out of the class — is also not good.”
UCLA study lead author Daniel J. Losen said some districts agree and are reducing suspension rates, citing the 84,000-student Baltimore City Schools, which, under CEO Andres Alonso, went from 26,000 suspensions in 2003-2004 to 10,000 six years later.
“We are turning the corner, but we haven’t fully turned it yet,” Losen said.
As a teacher, Dove said she came to realize that problem students often had problems. Perhaps, they couldn’t hear or see well enough to follow in class. They might be hungry. Mood swings in her high schools students often reflected personal or family struggles.
“Suspending them doesn’t solve any of these problems,” Dove said. “Let’s slow down. Let’s stop throwing them out. Let’s come together, teachers, administrators, parents, students and community, and devise a plan that works. We have already seen places that have done this. This is not poppycock. Working together, instead of working in isolation, creates alternatives so we can keep kids where we need them to be — in the classroom and learning.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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197 comments Add your comment
long time educator
September 11th, 2012
7:11 pm
If we cannot find a way to separate the disruptive students from those who want to learn, we will end up with vouchers where parents who care will try to separate their well behaved students from children from homes where parents do not care enough to discipline. If we do not come up with a solution to remove disruptive students from regular classrooms, disruptive students will be all that are left in regular classrooms. Charter schools, private schools and vouchers will be the solution good parents use to make sure their children are educated. If we care about troubled students, we better find a way to alter THEIR behavior, not alter public schools to tolerate their unacceptable behavior. You cannot make good parents keep their kids in an unsafe and unruly public school system. They will leave.
catlady
September 11th, 2012
7:12 pm
I don’t agree that, for most kids, suspension is a reward. My experience is that the bad-behaving kids usually WANT to be there. It may be the food, but I think it is because this is where these kids get ATTENTION. They get their PROPS. They get the ADMIRATION of their buds.
And, whether suspension is a reward or not, we MUST protect the other 70% (give or take) who WANT to learn.
I have no problem with putting those who have been expelled or suspended into boot camp. Many of them will need the skills of being ordered around when they get to prison. And, if the wake up helps save a few–great!
Hillbilly D
September 11th, 2012
7:22 pm
Longtime educator @ 7:11’s post makes a lot of sense to me.
Janice L Cook
September 11th, 2012
7:58 pm
My question is will we ever stop looking at education as “somebody else’s problem”, unless it affects our children? All of our children deserve the best education available to them. As a former substitute teacher for fourteen years, a single mother, a parent who got to know my son’s friends from the wealthier side of Atlanta, and finally a weekend residential advisor for students at a local Job Corps facilit(who,for whatever reason, did not complete their public school education), I can truthfully say that I have never met any student,of any age, who did not want to learn. What I have seen are adults, who have the seemingly myopic viewpoint that makes them unwilling to realize that all of us can contribute a talent that can reach just one child. You don’t always have to write a check, How about volunteering to read to children at your local library or working with literacy groups. to help someone prepare for the G.E.D. Education should be considered a concern for all right thinking Americans. Otherwise, we will continually watch the desire to learn evaporate in our young people’s bodies, minds, and hears, and souls, if we don’t act immediately.
another comment
September 11th, 2012
10:49 pm
Fred in Cobb county even got rid of the Alternative school and replaced it with an on-line school. Run by a Private Company. Now if that wasn’t a road to sucess. Not!!
Wilbur
September 11th, 2012
10:54 pm
The school to prison pipleline is a myth, a fake construction that means nothing, a fabrication intended to distract and misinform.
The home to prison pipeline is the one we should be focused on.
Parent
September 11th, 2012
10:55 pm
I’m sorry but everything is not always these kids fault. I have seen so many teachers being extremely rude and disrespectful to students. I’ve seen teachers yell, scream, get all in students faces, put them out of class into the hallway for no valid reason. Which is against school policy by the way. I’ve seen admistators lie and set kids up. Myself remember being a student and listening to the teacher lying to my parent about what happened. But as because the teacher said it admistration always go with the teacher. Why are parents not given the teacher code of conduct book. It exsist.
Children are people too. Many teachers make these kids angry by they way they treat them. And almost all of the time the parents don’t know that the teachers are doing this. If you show and treat students with respect you might get a better turn out. For many students If they know you respect them they will respect you back.
It’s sad to say but it is the Black schools with the Black teachers who are doing this to our Black kids where most of this is going on. Yet so many Black people died so Black people could learn to read and write.
another comment
September 11th, 2012
10:56 pm
I am a Liberal, but I truely believe that they aught to just skip the Charter school step and just give each child a voucher based on the average cost of all children. That means I better see at least my $8,600 that the State wants to give the Charter Schools, so I at least have enought to pay 1/2 the tuition at Marist or Holy Spirit. At least I will know my child will not have to be bored by the kids who don’t want to learn. She will not come home all bruised up from the playground because she fell off into the woods. No one was watching at recess, where the kids were playing. At least at Catholic Schools they have insurance that covers injuries at schools, where at public schools they won’t cover any part of the expenses from the injuries your child receives in their care.
or
Lee
September 11th, 2012
11:01 pm
Inmate #1: Whatchu in for?
Inmate #2: Murder
#1: Why you kill someone?
#2: Well, it all started when I got suspended in the 7th grade…..
… and the politically correct bleeding hearts actually believe that story….
Incredible.
Robert
September 11th, 2012
11:12 pm
Yes, we are. I grew up in Los Angeles, in an area most people people hated to drive through, it was as close to being as “East LA”, as any city could be. It was tough, and there were some gangs, but the community was tight, and no one was allowed to drop out. The teachers would go to your home, call your priest or pastor, give you social activities to do to keep you engaged. If you did something wrong the worst you got was an in school suspension, unless you committed a crime and were going straight to jail from school. Their entire goal was to keep you in school. Your punishment would be before or after school janitorial work. You should want to keep students socially connected, and in a healthy routine.
Thirty years ago the high graduation was over 95% and it remains at 95% percent today. A community that “never gives up, never surrenders”, no matter how poor it is, will make it in this world.
Parent
September 11th, 2012
11:39 pm
What are the school councilor’s for? everybody has nothing but complaints and bad things to say about students. Give a real solution. My son went to Princton Elemetary when they 1st opened. He was in the 6th grade. There is a male teacher there (I forget his name but he’s still there). He got the school to allow him to do a all boys class. Every Wednesday The boys had to dress up. It could be a suit or dress shirt and tie. His reasoning for that was to break them away from jeans and tshirts. The 1st week the boys grumbled and didn’t want to dress up and most didn’t. By the 3rd week all boys were dressing up in suits and dress shoes. I remember my son begging me to buy him more suits. The boys had little disaplain problem. Their grades inproved and felt proud of themselves. Studies show that students learn better in single sex classrooms and have less social problems.
All this talk who is willing to dedicate their time to show these kids the way. Kids have to be taught and show the way. They need people to listen to them sometime. Children are people and have feelings too. Adults are to quick to dismiss them because they are kids. Whose talking to them? It’s not always the parent who can do that. We live in stressful times. Many parents work all the time to keep a roof and food on the table. Kids talk more feely to an adult they can trust before they do their parents.
Who is willing to give time for free and teach them how to go from boys to men and girls to women?
Bernie
September 12th, 2012
2:02 am
Ashley @ 12:46 pm – Ashley! Ashley! Ashley! If only we lived in a Dream world like YOU and as naive as well as uninformed. If we ALL were, YOUR IDEA and comment as stated would be absolutely WONDERFUL!
Here are the COLD and Brutal Facts! Things are far more complicated and complex. The many Issues involved is not so, as you stated and it will never happen! PERIOD! Wake – UP! smell the coffee! This is Life and all of its Nastiness being played out in our schools and classrooms across this country everyday. These issues have always been there and will never leave.
We are now only acutely aware of its impact and out come as a result of technology. I am sorry to inform you. There are NO EASY answers on this ONE. Period!
redweather
September 12th, 2012
6:37 am
Robert, your comment reminded me of what I’ve been thinking as I made my way through all these posts. In order to keep kids in their seats, a teacher has to keep telling them to stay in their seats. If that doesn’t work, there has to be an administrator who will take it to the next step. That administrator then has to be willing to get the parents involved. Then the parents have to get in the act, and finally the student. Everyone has a stake in what is going on and needs to understand this. That is the definition of community (or village). That is also the definition of vigilance and hard work.
The high number of suspensions in some school districts strongly suggests that there is no sense of community. If I were a principal, the first thing I would do is make parent involvement mandatory. Opening the school one or two Saturdays a month and getting parents, teachers, administrator, and students together doing something is also a great and inexpensive way to build community and accountability. I would also find ways to shine a bright light on who was and who was not pulling their weight.
As for separate schools for misbahaved children, that is an atrocious idea. It sickens me to my very soul to see how many people advocate that. We have at least one of those in DeKalb County. I used to watch those kids leave school in the afternoon. They knew the community had given up on them, and I suspected that most of them felt betrayed. But they were teens, too proud to admit that. But I doubted they would ever forget it. Some might use it as motivation, but most would probably use it a crutch.
Mountain Man
September 12th, 2012
7:18 am
“If I were a principal, the first thing I would do is make parent involvement mandatory.”
And how EXACTLY are you going to do that? We are talking about PUBLIC school, not charters or private schools. You can’t just expell a student because his/her parent doesn’t show up for a PTA meeting. The law says you have to give them an adequate education.
Your whole article was laughable – do you really live in the real world with that rest of us? Or are you an East Cobb stay-at-home mom who has never had any experience with inner-school students and their single mom who doesn’t care about them and their sperm donor who is unknown.
Mountain Man
September 12th, 2012
7:23 am
Redweather – did you hear the story about the administrator who tried and tried to get in contact with a parent about a student, failing, and then letting the police take the student after the school closed? The parent said she had turned off her cell phone to save minutes. How would the school have gotten in touch with her if her son had been hurt or killed? Most administrators will tell you they try to contact the parent(s) but most parents either don’t care or they go to the other extreme and come down to the school ranting and raving that “their perfect angel” could not have done what 40 people saw him do.
Math & Tech teacher
September 12th, 2012
7:33 am
Maureen, slow press day? In the schools I have taught students are put into ISS or OSS for fighting, significant damage to school property, fighting or very bad behavior on bus, witnessed theft of significant item, or SIGNIFICANT DOCUMENTED WITNESSED verbal disrespect to a school official. Sure. Once again, it is the “school’s fault” that our youth are in such bad shape and some end up in prison.
williebkind
September 12th, 2012
8:41 am
“The law says you have to give them an adequate education.”
There lies the root of the problem. Government intervention! Make school voluntary. Let the one who do not want to attend school get a GED.
Shar
September 12th, 2012
9:53 am
The behaviors discussed in this thread are damaging to everyone involved – the teachers, the classmates and especially the student involved. However, they are NOT educational issues. They are social issues, and they need to be addressed by social service professionals. Teachers are not social workers, they are educators, and the fact that the public arena in which the behaviors are exposed is a school does not mean that the teachers (and the classmates) should have the responsibility of intervening.
You would not hire a chemist if you needed a house built. You would not engage a landscaper to design a bridge. And you would not expect a Good Samaritan who rushes to assist a heart attack victim to actually perform open heart surgery. Teachers are not trained to do the kind of massive social intervention that is required when a student is violent, neglected, drug addicted or promiscuous, and the happenstance that puts such students in their classrooms does not suddenly confer the ability to do so — while teaching algebra.
There are more minority and/or low socioeconomic students who do behave, who do try, than there are disrupters, and those strivers should get every ounce of educational support that teachers can give in order to help push them into a better future. That is where a teacher’s focus should be, not on those whose needs have little to do with the classroom they happen to be in.
Were I an administrator, I would make sure that a clear list of student expectations went home along with the usual syllabi at the beginning of term, and that list would include behavior and the consequences for failing to abide by the rules. Parents would have to sign the list, and they would be informed that classrooms would be videotaped as necessary and so would parent teacher conferences. Students and parents who refused to work with the school to address issues in a constructive fashion would be referred to social services, and would be assigned to alternative school until the issues were addressed. That way, everyone knows up front what is expected and what will not be tolerated, as well as what the consequences would be.
Ann
September 12th, 2012
10:16 am
These studies are always the same. The PROBLEM is school teachers/administrators don’t want to deal with parents. I understand that, but when you allow a student to disrupt the class you ARE hurting everyone else in that class. There are many reasons for disruptions, but the very first thing a school system needs to do is make it very clear what WILL happen if you disrupt class (for any reason) and then follow through with the removal of the student after 1 warning. The question becomes, where do you take the child. Alternative schools should not be just about children with bad behavior being controlled. They should address the REASON. Some have personal problems, some have medical/psychological problems, some disabled children have a thing called behavior disorder. They should be kept in school, somewhere, and a lot of students don’t want to go to in-school suspension. I am one of those parents who notified the school – every year – they had better not put their hands on my child. I also told my children – every year – they had better not behave badly or I would come to school and handle it myself. You see, no one should “assault” a child and it NEVER has made a difference in a child who cared whether or not they got in trouble. If the student and their parents cared – it worked. If they had the “beat them into submission” way of thinking it just made the student angry and eventually wanting to get even. You don’t teach non violence with violence. You can’t teach a classroom of students without order. You can’t control parents or students if they don’t want to be controlled and they must be removed. Generally, students with behavior problems are grouped with students who are called slow learners, because the parents of the other students will raise the roof. We have become a society where we are permissive in K-12 and then the REAL world puts the student in JAIL. They do not learn that here in the real world no one has to tolerate what teachers have to put up with. They behave the way they did in school and are surprised when anger issues, behavior disorder, low self esteem, and on and on, are not excuses for criminal behavior.
long time educator
September 12th, 2012
11:04 am
@Shar and @Ann,
Amen and amen!
gerbel
September 12th, 2012
12:11 pm
50 percent of all incarcerated individuals in the state of Georgia have never seen or have no idea who their father is. School behavior and incarceration begins and ends with the breakdown of the family. 2 out of every 3 black children are born out of wedlock. 1 out of every 2 caucasion. States can keep pouring money into the school and penal systems but until morality changes you are wasting time, money, and lives. Children now receive their lessons from video games, the street, and immoral movies. The lessons learned from parents are a thing of the past. The role models now are the thugs depicted on rap videos.
mountain man
September 12th, 2012
12:54 pm
“You don’t teach non violence with violence.”
So I guess we didn’t teach the Germans not to try to take over the world when we fought WWII? Any time now they are going to be coming back for revenge.
teacher reader
September 12th, 2012
12:58 pm
Students can just about get away with murder in most schools before anything is done. I watched children throw chairs, cuss out teachers, and hurt classmates and no punishment was received. This is not about the color of one’s skin, but the actions one has in the school and classroom.
Alternative schools are needed, as no child should be able to disrupt the education of another child. Right now schools are in denial that this behavior is as bad as it truly is in many schools. It’s easier to brush it under the rug, than deal with it head on. Principals who do want to do something to improve the school environment are often punished and taken out of their school.
Those that want to say people addicted to drugs should not be punished by jail and should receive treatment. I guess you’ve never had a person with a drug problem in your family or that of a family close to you. I’ve had both, and it wasn’t until the offender who was put in jail for the second or third time, after being sent to rehab several times, did they want to get clean and sober. Being addicted to drugs and the horrible behaviors exhibited by some in school are not the same and should not be lumped together.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 12th, 2012
1:33 pm
Mountain Man posted, “We are talking about PUBLIC school, not charters or private schools. You can’t just expell a student because his/her parent doesn’t show up for a PTA meeting.”
Check the law, please. Charter public schools cannot expel a student without the identical due process that any public school district follows. Stop posting misinformation–I’m sure you’re not doing it intentionally under the belief that if you publicize a lie often enough, some people will start believing it.
Another Math Teacher
September 12th, 2012
2:02 pm
teacher reader : “Right now schools are in denial that this behavior is as bad as it truly is in many schools.”
I think you mean certain administrators are in denial. The teachers know. You can read posts in this very thread from administrators that are in denial.
Jack
September 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
The problem with disruptive children began long before they reached the classroom. They were born into a dysfunctional environment of parents who suffered the same crippling fate. No laws govern promiscuous behavior and the children born as a result and these unfortunate children have to be separated from those able to abide by rules and laws that allow us to live in a civilized society. More prisons appear to be the only unhappy solution.
Mitch
September 12th, 2012
3:05 pm
YES. This is ‘A” problem but not “the” problem. Sometimes we have a very convoluted approach to education. Our expectations are unrealistic. We concentract on High Math, science and football. None of these are likely to sustain the student after high school. All too many students know that what they are being force fed will be of no value to them in real life. Then if they are not enjoying school, or if they give up because they do not understand it. Add in that their parent(s) also don’t understand it. Then , they are out of school and wandering aimlessly about.
mgdawg
September 12th, 2012
4:54 pm
One of the main problems we have is that when you continually take away forms of punishment, new forms of punishment must be created. Used to they would spank kids, that got outlawed, then physical punishment such as running, pushups, etc. became the norm, but don’t you dare do that. The problem is a lot of these problem children aren’t punished at home, so the parent doesn’t want them to be punished at school, no matter what the punishment.
For those of you calling for more alternative schools. You do realize that a lot of counties are closing schools, and almost every school is laying off teachers. Where is this money going to come from for these alternative schools? If you’re going to raise taxes to fund it, why should I have to pay more taxes because you don’t know how to raise your kids?
Grob Hahn
September 12th, 2012
5:52 pm
All of mthis talk about putting disruptive students into alternative training so that the few rotten apples don’t spoil the bunch are absolutely correct in the most pragmatic way. However, the results would become a political hot potato. Why? Because of that little fact that nobody wants to talk about (which is only making it worse). Like it or not, the alternative schools would look a LOT like we were implementing segregation all over again.
This would bring a lot more than just the Jesse and Al show. After all, if Obama had kids who were disruptive in school, they’d look like……………… well, you know the rest.
So forget it. As badly as we need to revisit “Reform Schools” it is absolutely NOT going to happen because we would rather pretend the real problem does not exist. Better to just kick the can down the road until it fixes itself.
Grobbbbbbbbbbbbbb
C from Marietta
September 12th, 2012
7:04 pm
That is just stupid. I was suspended in school. I graduated college and have a good job. Never spent a day in prison. Look at their home life and you will find the answer. Civil Rights Project wants to blame anyone but the Mother and Father (or lack there of),
Mary Elizabeth
September 12th, 2012
7:15 pm
“As a teacher, Dove said she came to realize that problem students often had problems. Perhaps, they couldn’t hear or see well enough to follow in class. They might be hungry. Mood swings in her high schools students often reflected personal or family struggles.
‘Suspending them doesn’t solve any of these problems,’ Dove said. ‘Let’s slow down. Let’s stop throwing them out. Let’s come together, teachers, administrators, parents, students and community, and devise a plan that works. We have already seen places that have done this. This is not poppycock. Working together, instead of working in isolation, creates alternatives so we can keep kids where we need them to be — in the classroom and learning.’ ”
=============================================
Very wise, sane, and effective words for tackling the suspension problem.
A poster mentioned my example earlier. Yes, I did ask my Asst. Principal to back me up each time I had to send any student to the office for disruptive behavior – after he/she failed to respond to warnings from me – during the first two weeks of each school year. I would, in turn, promise that few subsequent times of sending my students to the office would occur for the remaining of that school year. It was a very effective plan. I was a seasoned teacher of about 20 years when I requested this of my assistant principal. It should be noted that the penalty given to students from the administrator was usually less than out-of-school suspension because I had “nipped problems in the bud,” you might say, before they became more serious in nature. Also, students knew that I cared for each of them, as I daily delivered targeted instruction. They felt comfortable knowing what line they must not cross in my classes, i.e. ignoring warnings from me, the teacher in charge of her classroom, to alter inappropriate behavior.
However, I must emphasize the wisdom of Ms. Dove’s understanding of students’ misbehaviors, as she stated, above. I understood and empathized with the personal problems students had, even as I insisted upon a classroom of respect – respect from students toward me, their teacher, but also respect from me, their teacher, to all of my students, as well as respect from all students to one another. The focus each day, then, was on learning, and not on behavior in spite of any personal problems. Students knew how much I cared for them personally, and how much I desired that they grow and increase their reading skills. My Advanced Reading course, for high school juniors and seniors, was an elective course and my classes were always filled during the 16 years that I taught that course, and other courses.
Mary Elizabeth
September 12th, 2012
7:39 pm
“As a teacher, Dove said she came to realize that problem students often had problems. Perhaps, they couldn’t hear or see well enough to follow in class. They might be hungry. Mood swings in her high schools students often reflected personal or family struggles.
‘Suspending them doesn’t solve any of these problems,’ Dove said. ‘Let’s slow down. Let’s stop throwing them out. Let’s come together, teachers, administrators, parents, students and community, and devise a plan that works. We have already seen places that have done this. This is not poppycock. Working together, instead of working in isolation, creates alternatives so we can keep kids where we need them to be — in the classroom and learning.’ ”
—————————————————————————-
Wise and effective thoughts for approaching disruptive behavior.
Sandy Springs Parent
September 12th, 2012
7:57 pm
Today my 7th grader told me that she saw an 8th grade girl go up to her boy friend and pull his face into her ample boobs and say guess who. My response to her was how gross. I asked if this girl was White, Black or Hispanic. She said she wasn’t going to answer since I was being raciest. So that told me the girl was not white. I made sure to tell her that this kind of behaviour was completely inappropriate for any female, no matter what her age. But especially an 8th grade girl in the hallway of the middle school. My bet is this 8th grader will be pregnant by 9th grade. I am sure I will be able to pick her out at the school social. I can bet that her parent is under 30, rather than my child having a parent over 50. Her Grandmother is most likely younger than me as well, with this kind of behavior.
Observer
September 12th, 2012
8:22 pm
@ Sandy Springs Parent. You have a very smart daughter. Why DID you ask her the race of the 8th grade girl?
It sounds like your daughter has you figured out already.
Jerry Eads
September 12th, 2012
8:43 pm
Another side of this coin is that far too often disruptive students bring a class to a standstill, leaving 29 (or 39 – where are we headed – 49 or 59 per class?) other students who ARE interested in learning out of luck. Sometimes the disruption is a teacher’s inability to manage the classroom, but too often it’s because incompetent school leadership leaves the teachers to fend for themselves.
Yet another side of the coin is when a large percentage of students simply don’t want to be there: they have little or no family support – or no place to live, they’re hungry, they’ve been bullied – or shot at – on the way to school, and/or they’ve come to believe that there’s no point in trying as they’ll fail no matter what. In those cases we’ve all failed: NCLB requiring “high standards,” a past governor WE elected stealing 8 BILLION dollars from the schools (remember, teachers, you helped elect him – be careful what you ask for), poorly made tests measuring nothing important preventing otherwise competent kids from graduating – the list goes on.
Lots of ways we might address these issues so that disruptive kids could learn instead how to enjoy learning. Many of them might be better addressed than blaming schools and teachers, but that’s a LOT easier than facing the societal and political issues that are at root.
Mike Honcho
September 12th, 2012
9:07 pm
Here is an idea – Consider an education so important that those who consistantly disrupt the learning environment must be removed from the school. End of story.
DeKalb Teacher
September 12th, 2012
9:26 pm
Nancy Jester (http://whatsupwiththat.nancyjester.com) is going public with everything regarding the SACS letter. She has released Dr Atkinson’s response to SACS along with her comments and the other board member’s input.
TimeOut
September 12th, 2012
11:04 pm
Everyone is afraid to discipline the children…………..parents, teachers, administrators, ……….everybody. DFCS has become the new Gestapo……and they didn’t want to take on this roll………..they wanted to help abused and neglected children………..every now and then, we have a child whose willfull misconduct is so severe that the only way to create a new,more hopeful path for that child’s future, is to provide a consequence above and beyond what one would normally use…………..a couple of older guys in the family take the young smart*** out behind the barn so he can discover that his chosen role of bully will not lead to true happiness………….there are lots of times that the new mantra we’ve given children….”I”ll call DFCS!” actually serves to pave the way to their self-destruction………..don’t believe that adults’ concerns are invalid………..just wait until an unfounded, unjust accusation is labeled “unsubstantiated”…..not “not guilty”…………and see what doors of employment close in that person’s face forever more……………I watched it happen…………I’ve known teenage girls who falsely accused males and ruined lives while they manipulated our child protection laws like skilled lawyers…..We need a way to respond to the would-be antisocial ‘criminals in the making’ while still offering significant protection to our most vulnerable citizens…………….
Bernie
September 12th, 2012
11:14 pm
Georgia started as place for prisoners of King George. It seems only fitting that we continue the Practice of such a long and great Tradition.
mountain man
September 13th, 2012
6:16 am
Timeout – you are axactly right about DFACS – can’t keep kids from dying who are on their lists, but they sure can throw their weight around and make life miserable for the parent who is just trying to do right by their child.
Mountain Man
September 13th, 2012
7:18 am
The bad thing about the school to prison pipeline is: the students DON’T CARE. You cannot change someone who does not want to change. Above a certain age, then even theri parents have no sway over them. Certainly not their teachers or school administrators. Until you get students to care about their own education, you might as well just write them off and get them into prison as fast as possible and keep them there for as long as possible. They are dangers to society!
Timmy
September 13th, 2012
8:03 am
Great responses. I am in general agreement with the things said here. Every one of my problems with this article was covered well except for two. One-just because numbers go down for suspensions does not mean anything. Many school administrators are refusing to to process write-ups for fear of bringing down the wrath of county administrators, thus putting teachers in an even more tenuious situation (know this as a fact in Gwinnett county). And who will be blamed-teachers of course. Two-and most importantly, where are the advocates for the 95%+ students who come to school to learn and better themselves. They are denied the opportunity to receive a quality education because administrators are too number driven. Where is the fairness in that? Concentrate on the learners and see how much can be accomplished. Shame on you Ms. Downey for not even mentioning this. Perhaps away from the classroom too long.
xxx
September 13th, 2012
8:16 am
Observer
She asked the race of the girl for the same reason the Civil Rights frauds do for suspensions. Does that satisfy you?
fer
September 13th, 2012
8:54 am
Well, I got on here to comment, having spent 30 years teaching, but the first five comments say it all so I won’t be repetitious. But I don’t want those misbehaving students disrupting my grandchildren’s education just like I didn’t want them disrupting my children’s education.
Jillerian Truth
September 13th, 2012
10:03 am
Amen to fer….I am watching APS closely. They do very little about disruptive students. Well behaved kids can’t learn and it has nothing to do with skin color. They blame the teacher. They forget to blame the young baby mommas and missing baby daddies for bad parenting leading to disrespect for teachers. We have an entire American culture that has become biased against teachers to hide the shortcomings of those who just won’t raise their children with quality time, nurturing and protection. And, for those of you who raise respectful children, I am truly sorry that your children are exposed to “Thug Nation” on a daily basis
Just A Teacher
September 13th, 2012
10:11 am
I think all parents would like to have their children’s education be uninterrupted by other people’s incorrigible children. The problem is that the incorrigible kid is someone’s child, too. People want other children to be punished for misbehaving, but not their own. It is usually the parents of the worst behaved students who cause the most problems when their children are punished for poor behavior in school.
bilbo799
September 13th, 2012
10:11 am
@ Maureen
“The typical response is that black students misbehave more but the research refutes that contention. Instead, studies show that black students are punished more severely when they misbehave and for infractions that are often judgment calls — talking back or showing disrespect.”
Can you see why your point doesn’t make sense? You’re refuting “black students misbehave more” with “black students are punished more severely” for misbehavior. The severity of punishment can be wholly unrelated to the frequency of misbehavior.
I’m familiar with the one study I think you’re referring to. The problem with that study is it assumes that if white students are involved in X% of “serious” misbehavior requiring suspensions, they must also be involved in X% of “non-serious” misbehavior not requiring suspensions. A complete logical fallacy.
Tenured Teacher
September 13th, 2012
10:18 am
Okay… maybe suspensions have gone a little to far in some case. I must add that todays students are often rebellious and downright disrespectful to teachers and administrators so many suspensions are certainly warranted. When I was in school that type of behavior was met with a badly bruised butt at the hand of a paddling Principal. Sounds harsh but it was sure effective.
Jillerian Truth
September 13th, 2012
10:20 am
Teachers need support. Undisciplined children of all races should be dealt with so that children who want to learn can.
Entitlement Society
September 13th, 2012
11:35 am
after thinking more about it… “are WE PUSHING kids into the school-to-prison pipeline with suspensions?” What kind of question is this? Ah, no. WE are not the problem. Those kids are finding the way to prison all by themselves. Don’t try to pass the blame on well intentioned people!