When a strike is called, students are the ones out. Was there no other choice in Chicago?
Striking Chicago teachers were ordered to walk picket lines at their schools this morning. (AP Images)
Schools will be closed today in Chicago where teachers are striking for the first time in 25 years.
Chicago schools, which only opened last week, are operating on half-day schedules, although parents are being urged to keep their kids home. Students will spend time on independent reading or writing as state law doesn’t allow Chicago schools to offer classroom instruction without certified teachers.
There are clearly legitimate issues in Chicago but a strike won’t win the city or the union any friends.
Here is a good Chicago Tribune story on the strife. This is only an excerpt. Please try to read the full piece before commenting:
Chicago Teachers Union President Karen Lewis announced late Sunday night that weekend talks had failed to resolve all the union’s issues. “We have failed to reach an agreement that will prevent a labor strike,” she said. “No CTU members will be inside of our schools Monday.”
After an all-day negotiating session Sunday, school board President David Vitale told reporters the district had changed its proposal 20 times over the course of talks and didn’t have much more to offer. “This is about as much as we can do,” Vitale said. “There is only so much money in the system.”
The district said it offered teachers a 16 percent pay raise over four years and a host of benefit proposals. “This is not a small commitment we’re handing out at a time when our fiscal situation is really challenged,” Vitale said.
Lewis said the two sides are close on teacher compensation but the union has serious concerns about the cost of health benefits, the makeup of the teacher evaluation system and job security.
Contract talks started in November but had accelerated in recent days as Vitale, who brokered teacher contracts in 2003 and 2007, came to the table in an attempt to bridge the divide. CPS submitted new contract offers to the teachers union on Friday and Saturday, but neither was accepted. A teachers strike is fraught with political peril for [Mayor] Emanuel and CTU leadership. Both risk angering thousands of working parents now scrambling to find places for children
A strike is a strong rebuke by teachers of Emanuel’s aggressive approach to school reform, union leaders said. Shortly after Emanuel took office in May 2011 he eliminated a teacher pay hike to close CPS’ hefty budget deficit and pushed to lengthen what had been among one of the shortest public school days in the country.
Emanuel made a longer school day a centerpiece of his reform efforts for CPS and built momentum by offering cash incentives to schools whose teachers defied the union by voting to opt out of their contracts and extend the school day in the 2011-12 year, a year before it would be implemented districtwide. Emanuel’s tough talk on education reform and his willingness to work with national groups whose reform efforts undermined organized labor galvanized the teachers union and its members.
The district negotiated while trying to deal with its own severe financial woes. A $5.73 billion budget for 2012-13 emptied cash reserves to cover a $665 million deficit, and the school board also increased its share of the Cook County property tax by as much as the law allows. A district spokeswoman said each percentage point hike for teacher salaries would cost $20 million.
A strike was authorized by more than 90 percent of the union’s 25,000-plus members in a vote in June. The union easily passed the bar set by a new state law that requires 75 percent of union members to authorize a strike — a standard those behind the legislation thought would effectively eliminate the threat of a teachers strike.
With momentum on their side, teachers demanded higher pay for working the longer day, entering negotiations demanding what amounted to a 30 percent raise over two years. But as contract talks heated up, union leaders made clear they would accept a smaller raise in exchange for less restrictive job evaluations and for establishing a recall procedure for teachers who’d been laid off as a result of school closings, consolidations and turnarounds.
The union’s salary demands were bolstered by an independent fact-finder’s report in July that chastised CPS for extending the school day in a time of financial turmoil and without adequately compensating teachers. The arbitrator said teachers should receive raises between 15 and 20 percent, far above the district’s 2 percent offer. CPS officials warned that substantial pay hikes would force deeper cuts in staffing and programs.
A week after the arbitrator’s report, CPS and the union brokered a deal that appeared to remove the biggest obstacle in the labor fight. In exchange for the longer school day — an additional half-hour in high schools and 75 minutes in elementary schools — CPS agreed to rehire nearly 500 teachers in non-core subjects from a pool of teachers who had been laid off. That kept the hours in the work week the same for full-time teachers.
Both sides hailed the agreement as a “breakthrough” and credited it with refocusing efforts at the bargaining table. Moreover, it seemed to set the stage for the kind of compromise needed to reach agreement on the full teachers contract. It didn’t work out that way. Upset to learn that the new rehire pool would be a one-year fix to address the longer school day and not part of the district’s long-term plans, the union grew increasingly combative in public.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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142 comments Add your comment
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
9:50 am
I wish we could! Our only option in GA is to quit! Teachers are no longer set up for success here….
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
9:54 am
Fire them all and replace with qualified non-union staff. This has really gotten ridiculous. Do they actually believe they are irreplaceable?
Pompano
September 10th, 2012
9:55 am
Wow – demand a 15% to 20% raise for working an extra half-hour per day??? Just shows how out-of-touch some Teachers groups are from reality – and from the private sector!
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
10:03 am
Dear Pluto,
Why hate on the people who are the first line of defense against ignorance in our country. You must also hate America. For our country to be successful, we need motivated, energetic and generally happy people teaching our youth. And many are irreplaceable. I guarantee you wouldn’t last a month in my classroom. Just as you’re username is now just a rock floating around in space, so will the Earth if we all continue on this trajectory of ignorance and teacher bashing.
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
10:06 am
Pompano- put in the amount of time as teachers do, be talked to by children the way teachers are talked to daily and draw the same salary for 6 months. I bet you’re point of view would change quickly.
skipper
September 10th, 2012
10:15 am
Unions have outlived their usefulness, but teachers are now forced (everywhere, but ESPECIALLY IN THE GHETTO AREAS….CHICAGO, FOR ONE) to be subject to abuse by uncaring students and parents. There is no easy answer, but until the overall culture changes in particular areas we have what we have. OK, crusaders, fire away, but a strike is not the way. Until the culture changes, we will have unhappy teachers, students who do not learn, and a baby-sitting service (thats right….that is what it has become) that tries to keep the lid on a boiling pot of our next generation of ghetto inhabitants. Thus, we will have strikes, non-productive kids, and all the other bad things associated with a failing culture!
claytondawg
September 10th, 2012
10:16 am
I know teachers there (as here) belong to unions. However, UNIONS are the culprits here, and not teachers. Teacher unions have always been a thorn in the side of rightness. The public–and rightly so–only sees the greed in teachers’ attitudes where “teachers” want more pay, better benefits, smaller class sizes, more control of their own classroom. To a teacher, it all makes sense, but the teacher unions create such a disingenuous atmosphere that begins and continues in a frenzy. It doesn’t take much to destroy morale for the typical teacher who has apathetic students, non-supportive administrators and parents. Nurses strike; pilots strike; bus drivers strike– just to name a few of our workers in society. I know I’ll be hit with a lot of flack with my last comment: Nurses, pilots, and bus drivers have to have an education; next to their parents, the students’ teachers are the most influential entity in the students’ lives.
Van Jones
September 10th, 2012
10:17 am
Teaching in He##, clearly you are in the wrong profession. And you pulled the 10:03 comment out of your backside. “Hate on…” Really? Do you say “ax” instead of “ask” too? Your students must be proud.
ps NOBODY is irreplaceable.
sneak peek into education
September 10th, 2012
10:23 am
Power to the people! I love the fact that the teachers are saying no to the bureaucracy that thinks they can ride rough shod over them with their bully tactics. For those who complain about teachers and their supposedly Cadillac benefits, you sound more like socialists with your whines of “it’s not fair that I have to work 200 hrs a week, with no benefits or holidays. Why should you have that when I don’t?” Instead, start campaigning to your employer for good benefits and a decent amount of vacation (ie 5 weeks like they do in Europe).
Teacher Reader
September 10th, 2012
10:25 am
I’ve lived through 2 teachers strikes as a child, and know teachers in Chicago, as I taught there. What the union is asking for is outrageous, but so are the demands of the Emmanuel Administration. Both parties are at fault here.
Having lived through 2 teacher strikes, the second being particularly nasty, I have no respect for teachers that strike. The strike effects the children, yet the teachers get their same pay, as they have to work the required days of the school year. I lost great respect for the teachers that went on strike while in high school as their higher salaries caused my family and many others in the small town great hardship. These teachers didn’t have over crowded classrooms or really unruly kids, as we were a small town with well less than 100 kids per graduating class.
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
10:31 am
Wow, the racist undertone in here is astounding! I’m in the right profession, but maybe not in the right city…Van, you’re correct, nobody is irreplaceable but the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. I’d love to see Chicago let all of these teachers go….pull in some scabs to run the schools. See where that gets the city that’s already has one of the highest crime rates in the US. You’ll have an education system with replacement teachers running as good as the NFL has for replacement refs. Nothing but bad calls.
teacher&mom
September 10th, 2012
10:45 am
Another POV regarding the strikes and what is taking place in Chicago.
http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/chicago-teachers-union-president-karen-lewis-speaks-to-18000-supporters-on-labor-day/
teacher&mom
September 10th, 2012
10:51 am
Google “Rahm rents protesters”
Cutty
September 10th, 2012
10:52 am
I’m from Chicago, graduated from CPS. They have the shortest school day of any major school system in the country. Extending the school day by 30 minutes would only bring the school system on par with some districts. The teacher evaluations do seem cumbersome, as their performance is tied to student’s test scores (think NCLB). Couple that with only 60% of CPS students actually graduating from high school, and I think both sides are at fault. Stay at the bargaining table until a resolution is reached and students can get back to learning. Emanuel and the Unions look bad.
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
10:57 am
Dear Teaching in Hell
Why do the left leaning always paint with such a broad brush and act if they are the enlightened among us when in fact they tend to only read the party line talking points with no deviation. Contrary to your inflated sense of self purpose, teachers in Chicago average $76k before benefits. They turn down a 16% offer over four years and want more. I have little compassion for their greed.
Rockerbabe
September 10th, 2012
10:58 am
When you treat college education, certified, well-trained professionals as dirt beneath your feet and refuse to negiotate with them on all matters of concern, then this is what you get. Teachers have been on the receiving side of griping, mistreatment, layoffs, take-backs of salaries and benefits for years and it has reached the point of no return. The mayor of Chicago needs to been careful or he will find that teachers can and often do go elsewhere for job and career opportunities and often at substantially higher salaries. Using the kids as a battering ram against their teachers only creates resentment and a desire to go elsewhere.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 10th, 2012
11:13 am
The 40,000+ kids in Chicago’s charter public schools are in class this morning with their teachers on the job.
Mortimer Collins
September 10th, 2012
11:14 am
Terminate them. Terminate everyone of them immediately.
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
11:23 am
Pluto: Have you ever been to Chicago, ever tried to live there? Its expensive! Illinois taxes are expensive! Being a teacher is expensive! I spend around 2k on my students a year….supplies, covering field trip expenses, buy clothes for those who need it…and I’m not making anywhere near 76k, not even close! Many teachers do the same….with the number of cuts over the last few years we have no choice but to spend our own money to make our classes work.
As far as sticking to a party line you said fire them all and replace them with non-union staff….doesn’t take much to figure out your affiliation.
This is MY opinion. I do not represent any political party….political parties do nothing but divide.
Maureen Downey
September 10th, 2012
11:26 am
@Dr. Henson, To that point, 118 of Chicago’s 681 public schools are charters and those teachers are not under the union contract so they are in class today.
Maureen
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:30 am
I can see both sides:
in a practical sense, a strike now makes best strategic sense. it’ll put pressure on the city they’d not have had during the summer.
that said, while I support the right of teachers to unionize, they do fill a unique niche in society and should not have been allowed a strike during the school year option.
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
11:32 am
Dear Mortimer,
Are you referring to the teachers or the corrupt political officials in Chicago? Also, when was the last time you were responsible for a room full of 35 children? Oh, never? You have no say.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:34 am
@ claytondawg,
exactly what union am I in? since you KNOW we’re unionized, you should know which union it is.
not to mention who the Atl. chief is, and who the stewards report to.
be warned: this IS a trick question and I AM setting you up.
d
September 10th, 2012
11:35 am
I can only imagine if Georgia teachers were allowed to strike how many of us would be on the picket line right now….. that being said, claytondawg said that UNIONS are the culprit…. Who makes up the union? It is the teachers speaking with one UNIFIED voice. The NEA is not Dennis Van Roekel – math teacher from Arizona, or Lily Eskelson – cafeteria worker turned 4th-grade teacher from Utah or any of the other leadership. Although these individuals have been elected to speak on behalf of the over 3 million NEA members, they are members just like any other NEA member. Being able to speak out with one unified voice as a union is not the problem in education. Maybe what needs to happen is for some of the people in charge to start listening to the experts that are these union members about improving education and focusing less on the bureaucracy of central offices that create jobs for people who often (not always) could not handle the classroom. I am tired of being told I need to explain everything I am doing for someone who is observing me. If they can’t look at what I am doing and know what is going on, how can they effectively observe and evaluate the job I am doing?
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:37 am
over the last few years I have become convinced the vast majority of anti union posters fall into two categories
1-flaming trolls
2-rank jealously
Just A Teacher
September 10th, 2012
11:38 am
@Dr. Henson . . . Shame on those teachers in the charter schools for not supporting their brothers and sisters in education!
Kathleen Carpenter
September 10th, 2012
11:39 am
My sister and brother-in-law both teach in CPS schools. They are being held hostage by a union that is letting their pride lead the way. The district has made more than fair concessions and the teacher union president couldn’t even be found yesterday for negotiations. 4% pay raise a year for the next four years??? I know tons of teachers here in Georgia who would love that! You can’t have subpar performance, a terrific salary that rode on the backs of a good economy for years (and took advantage of that good economy) and expect not to be held accountable. There are good models for evaluating teachers that include student performance, but the union is adamant that they can’t include that in evaluations. When I was a teacher (in both an urban and suburban setting) I evaluated myself on my students’ performance, and never was satisfied unless they made progress under my watch.
The is a NO WIN situation. The union could have gotten some real public support by agreeing to the district’s 20+ offers yesterday.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:41 am
historically, unions only rise in this nation when the balance between management and labor tilts badly out of balance towards management.
after a decade of wage freezes, furloughs, and skyrocketing benefits, combined with rampant cronyism and out of control spending…..anyone who is surprised to see rank and file allowing the unions to flex their muscles is blind or mentally defective
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
11:42 am
Teaching: I really don’t want to get into a pissing contest with anyone but playing the apolitical card just doesn’t cut it. Like it or not we are all political animals. As teachers, we try to best serve our students to prepare them for the “real world”. I teach physics and chemistry of all types and am told I am pretty good at it. I think a teacher who is so self-focused like those in Chicago is a sorry excuse for a teacher and should be axed. Lastly, if you wanted to be a more convincing passionate teacher, you might want to use proper grammar and syntax. There is a difference between a possessive and a contraction.
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
11:44 am
D, Bootsy-
GA teachers need a UNION! Sorry, Dr. T, but professional organizations just don’t carry the clout!
If there was a union here I wouldn’t have had to go through so much of the cr*p I’ve gone through in the last 9 yrs….
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:45 am
somebody go wake up Fran Millar. shame for him to miss his favorite type of fiction.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:47 am
@ Teaching/hell
you caught me! do you teach at Ga. Prison Camp? there is only one Dr.T I know of…
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
11:50 am
for those who don’t know, Georgia Prison Camp became an underground reference to GPC during the worst of the Tricoli years.
Pompano
September 10th, 2012
11:54 am
@Teaching in Hell. If you really think a 20% raise is appropriate for simply adding an additional half-hour to the day (which brings them on par with the rest of the country), then you clearly are an example of the greedy, lazy government types that have destroyed education in this country. Sounds like our “first line of defense against ignorance” is actually fueling the flames of stupidity!
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
11:55 am
Pluto:
Calling me out on my grammar, seriously? You have no idea who I am yet you lump me into the category of”political animal”? Not me. I make my own educated decisions. I lean all ways and no ways at all. My decision today is one of support for the difficult decision the Chicago teachers made. I would hope, when the time comes, I can only be that strong.
Mortimer Collins
September 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
“Are you referring to the teachers or the corrupt political officials in Chicago?”
The nature of the blog subject is union teachers call a strike. Now you being a “teacher” should be able to distinguish, but for the record Im referring to terminating the teachers. They should everyone be terminated.
I guess your public sector exposure has somewhat dimmed the lights.
mountain man
September 10th, 2012
12:12 pm
“Fire them all and replace with qualified non-union staff”
Good idea. I know there are lots of competent teachers just yearning to go teach in inner-city schools. All you need is about 25,000 of them.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
12:14 pm
God forbid workers try to make up lost wages.
I’m sure the noble private sector employees never try to leverage the most cash possible. they obviously work to serve the company, which is more important than they are individually
mountain man
September 10th, 2012
12:16 pm
“I think a teacher who is so self-focused like those in Chicago is a sorry excuse for a teacher and should be axed.”
Yes, heaven forbid a teacher should think of THEMSELVES. We only want unselfish martyrs who will take crap day after day, put up with no raises and furlough days that decrease their salary. We want teachers who think only of their students as they are forced to put up with discipline problems, attendance problems and then expected that the students who aren’t there will LEARN (Right PB&J?).
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
12:17 pm
Pompano-
Greedy? I wish! I make under 50k after 9 years.
Lazy? Nope! I coach, for free, an academic team at my school that is internationally renouned.
What’s killing education is the for-profit route that wants to limit public school students and have them pushing brooms.
Double Zero Eight
September 10th, 2012
12:18 pm
Both sides will compromise and the strike will
last about a week. It seems that the teachers are
equally concerned about evaluations/job security,
as they are about compensation.
I had to re-read the section regarding the budget,
to make sure I did not misread a 5.73 billion
budget for 2012-13. Wow!
Did you Know?
September 10th, 2012
12:24 pm
Chicago Public School teachers are REQUIRED to live in the city. The cost of living in Chicago is 13.8% higher than Atlanta, 21% higher than Macon. http://swz.salary.com/CostOfLivingWizard/Layoutscripts/Coll_Result.aspx . We have all witnessed the news reports about crime in Chicago, the schools represent a microcosm of society. Chicago has to offer higher salaries for “hazard and combat” pay.
When I lived in the Chicago Metro area, it seemed most of the CPS teachers I encountered had another job or owned rental properties to be able to live comfortably. Extending the school day has an impact on supplemental employment by teachers. Having visited many Chicago charter schools, I observed a few things-many of the teachers were “green” (no prior teaching experience or even internships) and I knew of none that had taught at the charter school (or charter schools in general) for more than 3 years. Many charter school models in CPS have very high teacher turnover and general teacher burn out; some of the charter schools are temporary stopping places until some teachers move on to something with higher pay and/or prestige. The vast majoirty Chicago teachers have never gone on strike their entire career.
Disclaimer for possible detractors to my personal observations: I have not ever taught in Chicago or Illinois.
Prof
September 10th, 2012
12:24 pm
@ Cutty, 10:52 am: “Stay at the bargaining table until a resolution is reached and students can get back to learning. Emanuel and the Unions look bad.”
I have to agree with this.
I have a close relative who’s been an educator in Chicago for a little more than 10 years, though not a K-12 one. I think one really has to consider here the great financial problems specific to the state of Illinois at this time. They’re about on a par with those of California. The state’s tax revenues have dropped precipitously. For the last four years, the state legislature has apportioned funds to the state University system…but hasn’t given them the money! There are severe budget cuts to all government agencies that make Georgia’s cuts look paltry.
This is the local context for the demands by Mayor Emmanuel and the teachers’ union. As I say, I agree with Cutty at 10:52.
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
12:42 pm
@ Teaching ” What’s killing education is the for-profit route that wants to limit public school students and have them pushing brooms.” , which way are you leaning now?
You know what they say about people who stand in the middle of the road, they get run over. As far as your (not you’re) grammar usage, like it or not people will judge your speaking/writing ability as a sign of your intelligence. Sorry
Pompano
September 10th, 2012
12:50 pm
@Teaching in Hell. You don’t see private Schools graduating students only capable of pushing brooms as they are held accountable by their customers (parents). Only the Public School Systems graduate alleged “Honor Students” that read & write at a six-grade level. Bet you’ve churned out a few of those during your career.
But, I guess when you’re clueless enough to demand a 20% raise for 30 minutes of work that you’re also the type to search for boogeymen under any rock. 20% raise – what selfish idiots!
Teaching in Hell
September 10th, 2012
1:15 pm
I’m leaning on the side that created public education so that everyone could have opportunity. Maybe if public education had resources and funding that private schools did we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. But hey, this is ‘Merica where we bloat the budget for administrators and shove kids into classrooms like cattle to the slaughter.
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
1:38 pm
Is that all you got Teaching? Pretty much what I expected. In an exchange of ideas you seem a bit overwhelmed.
Truth in Moderation
September 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
Rahm Emanuel’s children are in school today. They attend the “tony” Chicago Lab Schools, founded by “Mr. Public School” John Dewy! Of course, this school is PRIVATE and costs $23-$26 thousand per year. Mr. Emanuel, why don’t your public school reform mandates make all public schools look like the Lab School????????? Also, it looks like the charter schools are being used to do an end run around the teacher unions.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/chicago-mayors-kids-school-remains-open_652113.html
taco taco
September 10th, 2012
2:04 pm
I wish the teachers of Chicago the best of luck. APS has not given us a raise in 4 years and required to take 4 furloughs days this year. I am sticking it out until I can find employment somewhere else.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
2:25 pm
@ pomp
one teeny, tiny, little trick.
private schools get to pick and choose who they accept
we don’t.
so your comparison is breakfast cereal to oil spills.
bootney farnsworth
September 10th, 2012
2:26 pm
@ Pluto
just curious – what could we say you’d possibly accept?
you appear to have already made up your mind, facts regardless.
Curious Parent
September 10th, 2012
2:27 pm
@Teaching in Hell…How are you reading, posting to, and commenting on the blog during the school day? Where is your focus? How are you teaching students if you are on the computer trolling the blog. How can any “teacher” be taken seriously if they have been spending time on the computer – NOT for the educational benefit of their students, but for their own personal reasons. If you are truly “teaching in hell” maybe another teaching position elsewhere is warranted; but then I suspect there would be no time for blogging would there?
Claudia Stucke
September 10th, 2012
2:34 pm
My daughter spent a year working with Americorps/City Year in a southside Chicago public school for a year, and she called me regularly with questions, observations, and requests for advice. These are challenging times for public schools everywhere, and my heart goes out to the teachers and students at CPS. But I do know that not all CPS teachers wanted to strike. When teaching in DeKalb County, my colleagues and I periodically reviewed the advantages and disadvantages of a teachers’ union; and most of us agreed, we just couldn’t strike. I don’t want judge the CPS teachers or union without being better informed (or perhaps even then). When I left teaching, we hadn’t had a raise for several years, and, more seriously, no system contributions had been made to our retirement accounts. Under those circumstances, I think teachers feel powerless and maybe even a little scared–I know that my coworkers and I did. There must be some way to get response from those in power; extreme circumstances may call for extreme measures. Although I said I couldn’t walk out, that’s exactly what I did. Forever.
William Casey
September 10th, 2012
2:38 pm
It’s just dawned on me that most bloggers here who are so critical of teachers are probably failed small businessmen who want to spread the misery.
Prof
September 10th, 2012
2:41 pm
According to the latest information on http://www.cnn.com, negotiations between Chicago’s teachers and the school officials have resumed.
Claudia Stucke
September 10th, 2012
2:58 pm
@Prof: Thanks for the good news.
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
3:01 pm
bootney I thought this was an opinion page and facts slung around here don’t mean a whole lot. What would you say if I said that about 80% of eighth grade CPS students are in need of reading remediation. If you can’t read at the high school level at the point you are to enter high school something ain’t right and the student probably won’t make it. How much responsibility do teachers own? Unions? Parents? I am going to change anybody else’s mind and you aren’t going to change mine so we spar.
Mary Elizabeth
September 10th, 2012
3:02 pm
Just a story shared from my past:
“In the 1960s, in New York City, after weeks, if not months, of negotiations, NYC teachers went on strike, led by the outstanding former teacher and union leader Albert Shanker. My first husband, and friend for 45 years until he died in 2006, was part of that strike. It was only after teachers went on strike did they receive decent pay for their work equivalent to other professions, and as important to them, respect. Shanker was not a diehard liberal; I believe he leaned somewhat conservative and he advocated for charter schools, but he led that strike with maturity, sensitivity, and resoluteness. It was good to see teachers stand up for themselves and earn the respect that they should have been given before they had to resort to such a drastic step.” (From Wikipedia about Albert Shanker: “In 1991, U.S. President George H. W. Bush appointed him as a member of the original Competitiveness Policy Council. He died of bladder cancer and was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1998 by U.S. President Bill Clinton.”
———————————————————————–
I would remind public school teachers, that not only are Chicago’s charter school teachers not part of a teacher’s union in this particular situation in Chicago, but that, here, in Georgia, members of last year’s Republican dominated legislature were going to establish a bill (HB 664 – see link below) whereby teachers in Georgia’s State Commissioned charter schools would not be allowed to join Georgia’s Teacher Retirement System.
Those two facts, in combination, should alert public school teachers to the need for them to secure and to safeguard their own best interests – by first being aware of political movements in the nation.
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/116389.pdf
Carolinmd
September 10th, 2012
3:10 pm
As both a former teacher, and a failed small business owner I think can speak from both sides of this argument.
As a teacher, I chose to quit years ago, and started my own business. Losing my business in our failed economy was much more personal than the decision to leave a school system run by unions who had little concern for the children who they cry for.
The teachers have a choice to come or go. If they don’t like dealing with difficult children, who seem to be in the majority in all of our schools, partly due to teacher’s very real fear of making some sort job ending mistake, leave. It shouldn’t be on the tax payers to pacify unhappy teachers with more money and benefits that they themselves will never in their lifetimes realize.
As it is all across the country…there is no money…not here, not there…not anywhere! However,
there are millions of certifiable, educated, and unemployed teachers everywhere. They would be thrilled to take your positions and figure out how to make ends meet with less, as they are used to getting by with nearly nothing.
Pomona
September 10th, 2012
3:14 pm
I changed my mind…..
Strike, teachers, Strike!
After watching the news all day I have seen the light!
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
3:15 pm
a duh, duh, duh
my kid is so smart….I like republicans.
a duh, duh, duh
Another Math Teacher
September 10th, 2012
3:29 pm
Pluto: “Lastly, if you wanted to be a more convincing passionate teacher, you might want to use proper grammar and syntax.”
“As far as your (not you’re) grammar usage, like it or not people will judge your speaking/writing ability as a sign of your intelligence.”
“I am going to change anybody else’s mind”
Yes, people do judge you on your writing ability. Nice job there, Sparky.
Pluto: “facts slung around here don’t mean a whole lot.”
Facts are facts, lies are lies. There are many posters here that lie. A lot. They present partial facts that tilt to their side of the ‘truth.’
Pluto: “I teach physics and chemistry of all types and am told I am pretty good at it.”
Posting times on a school day ——-> 9:54 am, 10:57 am, 11:42 am, 12:42 pm, 1:38 pm, 3:01 pm
I hope you are not a teacher posting during work. Wouldn’t that be akin to theft?
jarvis
September 10th, 2012
3:33 pm
Public employees should not be allowed to unionize unless the voting public is given input in the collective bargaining process? Public bargaining agreements should require voter approval?
Pluto
September 10th, 2012
3:34 pm
Another Math Teacher … glad to know that you are the paragon of truth. Must be a furlough day?
Observation
September 10th, 2012
3:41 pm
@ Pluto. The first time that Another Math Teacher has posted here is at 3:29 pm, which is after school hours in many schools.
Just A Teacher
September 10th, 2012
4:09 pm
I’m proud of the teachers there, and I wish we could unionize here. I have been through heck the past several years because of salary cuts and the increased costs of my benefits. Unions are nothing to be ashamed of or belittled; they are the average working man or woman trying to get a fair shake from corrupt bosses, in this case, politicians.
My father was a steward for the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and Warehousemen, and he only had to call for one strike vote in his decades of service to that organization. But, when that strike occurred, you better believe that management paid attention because their products weren’t delivered and their customers were furious!
And for those of you who say “fire them all and hire new ones,” you have obviously never tried to cross a real picket line. I doubt very few teachers would want to cross a picket line in which I am marching, especially those who might not have healthcare.
Mountain Man
September 10th, 2012
4:23 pm
“I doubt very few teachers would want to cross a picket line in which I am marching, especially those who might not have healthcare.”
The one thing I absolutely HATE about unions is when they are not getting their way- they resort to violence. I think that the National Guard should be brought in, and at the first sign of violence, they open fire on the picketers and kill them dead.
Collective Bargaining can be reasonable if no one starts talking about violence.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 10th, 2012
5:02 pm
Just a Teacher posted, “Shame on those teachers in the charter schools for not supporting their brothers and sisters in education!”
No. Shame on those teachers in the Chicago Public Schools district for not putting students first. Adults who value children above all will hammer out details between adult parties without sacrificing children’s educations. Strikes during school days are clear and convincing evidence of where the union’s priorities lie. And children are incidental to those priorities, which have to do with the comfort and benefit of adults. There is no other way around it.
Curious Parent
September 10th, 2012
5:22 pm
@Another Math Teacher, thank you for pointing out Pluto was also posting during school hours…missed that. I find it interesting that “Teaching in Hell” suddenly went silent after getting called out. Must have finally decided to turn their attention to their classroom.
Why do these K-12 educators find it necessary to do something OTHER than educate during school hours? I understand they have planning periods. However, if educators are going to use this forum to say how LITTLE time they have during the day for lesson plans, paperwork, and actual teaching; then stay off here until you get home. DO NOT waste a student’s time trolling the blogs.
Old Physics Teacher
September 10th, 2012
5:25 pm
Hey Pluto and the rest of you guys,
You do know the BOE could fire them all right this minute, right? The BOE is really, really peaved at them, right?Then why don’t they take your suggestions and FIRE THEM? Maybe it’s because the BOE can’t find anybody willing to work for those wages now? Maybe it’s partly about the money and partly about the working conditions and partially about the BOE lying to them and now the teachers don’t believe a confirmed liar? The BOE SAID they would re-hire some of the teachers they just laid off. What the teacher negotiators didn’t hear was that the board only agreed to hire them back for ONE YEAR… Which was not what they said initially. That made them liars. No one trusts liars at a negotiation.
Just the facts, ma’m – just the facts.
Mary Elizabeth
September 10th, 2012
5:28 pm
Dr. Henson’s remarks in her 5:02 pm post were very similar to the remarks hurled at the union teachers in NYC who struck for their rights as professionals a half century ago – while they also cared about their students. Striking is not a comfortable situation for anyone, however, sometimes it becomes necessary. The right to strike is inherently American. Labor counts, not just management. The voices of the many, joined together, count in this nation, as much as the voices of the few in control. This nation is an egalitarian one.
Lee
September 10th, 2012
6:08 pm
I would wager that vouchers are looking pretty good right now in Chicago….
Well, at least for the few parents who actually give a rip. From the looks of the students and teachers they interviewed on TV, probably not much educatin’ going on even if they were in school.
Another wager – the crime rate will increase during the teacher strike. Probably teenage pregnacy as well.
Given the socialistic nature of unions, not surprising that many teachers on here give their support. Hey, if Reagan can fire the air traffic controllers, anything is possible. Give it a shot, call the unions bluff.
3schoolkids
September 10th, 2012
6:18 pm
I lived in suburban Chicago in the 70’s and remember PTA staffing the classrooms during a strike. It gave the students a unique lesson on unions, so it was a learning experience. Unfortunately it really made apparent the teachers that cared more about the students -they left lesson plans in case of strike. My 4th grade teacher wasn’t one of them and it negatively impacted the class atmosphere for the rest of the year.
Jordan Kohanim
September 10th, 2012
7:09 pm
Out of curiosity, what do people think teachers SHOULD do when working conditions become unbearable and all attempts to make things better are ignored (or dismissed as whining)?
echo
September 10th, 2012
8:51 pm
Getting so tired of people saying teachers should continue bending over “for the kids”. They aren’t my kids! I have bills to pay and I will not sacrifice my sanity or financial well-being for someone’s kids. Teaching is a JOB and if you want the job done, PAY UP!
DeKalb Teacher
September 10th, 2012
9:55 pm
I’m with echo!! Teachers need to get paid like everyone else!!
@echo,
If teachers give up tenure and a pension, like everyone else, what do you think a fair compensation pay scale should be?
Truth in Moderation
September 10th, 2012
10:06 pm
Mayor Rahm Emanuel needs to visit Japan to get advice from Kawasaki City mayor on how to handle tough public school crises:
(YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!”)
“Kawasaki city mayor, “School serves radioactive lunch for educational purpose.”
“It’s important for children to know that they live in danger….It’s wrong to educate children to be conscious about this level of radiation. There is a risk of being hit by car, there is also a risk of being stabbed by passerby. Should we teach students not to pass by anyone ?”
http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/09/kawasaki-city-mayor-school-serves-radioactive-lunch-for-educational-purpose/
Pride and Joy
September 10th, 2012
10:59 pm
D you said “I can only imagine if Georgia teachers were allowed to strike how many of us would be on the picket line right now….. ”
THEN UNIONIZE and quit complaining!
OTOH
September 10th, 2012
10:59 pm
I would like to know what this teachers’ union proposed for teacher evaluations. in detail. why is this never part of the report?
As for CPS teachers being required to live in the city limits, shouldn’t the union negotiate on this point if it is a problem?
another comment
September 11th, 2012
12:46 am
I thank God, everyday that I went to school up north with Unionized teacher. In a small, high performing district, where teachers were well paid. A district that teachers were respected as professionals and could live solid middle class lives within the communities they taught.
My daughter sadly told me the other day that none of her teachers could afford to live by us or near her school in Sandy Springs. I think that is so sad. I grew up in a small town with a real income strata, that allowed the teachers to live in the town, along with the doctors and lawyers.
So if you ask me I say Unions yes. Why shouldn’t a teacher with a B.A or B.S. or Above make at least $50-70 K a year. Now maybe there are some folks down in these non-union states with these substandard schools of education, who shouldn’t be allowed to teach. Should a person with a 800 or 900 SAT score get into an Education school, Hell no!!!. Should anyone be allowed to teach that can not correctly pronounce English. Someone who uses “Ax in lieu of Ask” This is not southern, it is incorrect grammar and laziness. Teachers should be required to take oral boards. The Principal at Campbell High School in Smyrna can not even give the speech at Open House in proper English. Both black and white parents are shaking their heads in disqust over the poor diction of a Principal. When I spoke to her later and she started with the incorrect language, I simply said, like I would with anyone else from the McDonalds clerk, excuse me it is blank not blank. Boy did she give me a dirty look. Now she does not deserve her six figure salary. But there are thousands of teachers who deserve $50-70K and 4% a year raises. Teachers also need protections from the raciest Soriety Sisters and Fraternity Brother’s of the Frat’s and Sorities you must be one color to join, who only hire and promote from their own college organization. This is ripe for an EEO class action.
Wake up America Union’s yes, they protect everyone but the 1%. Alot of people need to go back and read up on the industrial revolution in this country. The measley 2 weeks vacation most people get now is due to Unions, the 8 hour work day is due to unions. Why do so many want to be ignorant and vote against their own self interest. Because the Preacher man the biggest hypocrate tells you too. Or even better your in your 30’s and your too stupid and your husband has to give you a cheat cheet to make sure you vote for all the Republicans, because you might accidentially vote for a Democrate. I saw one dingbat bragging about having a list from her husband of who she should vote for. Even my 86 year old mother can vote for herself.
One Teacher's Voice
September 11th, 2012
12:59 am
Are you really making a change on here?
We are becoming puppets to political machines that are using education for the enhancement of political careers, both Republican and Democrat.
It looks like Mayor Emmanuel tried it and got burned.
Republicans tried it in Wisconsin and got a political boost.
But let’s be honest here; breaking the teacher unions which lean heavily to the Democratic party was a motivation for the Wisconsin, law change. I respect the tenacity of the political maneuver, but this Republican focus on teachers, and more specifically the unions, is politically motivated and is not really about what’s best for students.
Democrats typically vote towards what the unions want because they know that the Union voice will help with votes. Again, this is not best for children.
Republican Pundits-Public Education (Government Education) has become the rallying cry of stupidity. Most of you reading this are products of public education, yet you are quite willing to accept this banter as truth. Bashing public education for public sentiment is brilliant. Let’s only have private, for profit schools. Those will definitely be fair for those kids in rural or urban areas.
Democrats-It’s the policies that are causing the problem. The Gates foundation and its suggestions will solve this. Let’s put business leaders in the lead role to fix education. If the can make computer programs work, they can make education work. Spend more money to build stuff and add staff (not necessarily teachers) to fix education. That fix makes people happy at first, but it doesn’t work long term.
We have become so divided into left and right that we can’t see the problems because of the rhetoric that is being thrown in our faces.
I watch Fox, listen to Sean Hannity, read CNN, read The Huffington Post, and often peruse many other sites to see which way the wind blows on both sides.
The machines are so against teachers right now, that I discourage my students from going into education. Don’t teach math, go into insurance. Don’t teach literature, become an attorney. Don’t become a first grade teacher, become a veterinarian.
The vilification of teachers is coming at the cost of educating the youth. We are letting this happen because politicians are dividing us into sides…their sides…not on the side of kids.
However, there are many of us who go teach each day because we love what we do, despite being degraded by those pundits that so many of you love to nod your head to.
And no, I am not a liberal, a conservative, or any other political label.
I am a free thinker who reads all the facts that he can.
So here are a couple of questions with the answer key provided.
For how long has Georgia had a Republican Governor?
Answer: For 9 Years
For how long has Georgia had both a Republican House and Senate?
Answer: For 7 Years
For how long has Georgia had a Republican Superintendent of Schools?
Answer: For 9 Years
What have they done? Ask someone with firsthand knowledge.
Ask any teacher who has be around for more than a decade before you come to a conclusion. Ask one of them if the actual classroom is better or worse. Ask how many days are now lost to testing. Ask how large class sizes are now(I often have over 35 per class…it was 26 ten years ago).
Go Federal….ask how the federal laws passed without federal funding under the Bush years have affected education. And for the current scenario, ask how Obama’s national curriculum and standardized testing/teacher evaluation system is working. No, his plan isn’t going to be a spending and testing nightmare.
Is education in the spotlight for real improvement or for political and financial gain?
Most teachers really do enjoy and want to teach. If you want to see education flourish, invest in teachers instead of the buildings, the software, the computers, the testing, the stadium, the fields, the projectors, the parking lots, the new this or the new that. Invest in those who care about helping kids succeed.
More Republican Propoganda
September 11th, 2012
5:28 am
I am sure there were other alternatives but the way teachers are treated I can see where they felt they had to do this and after seeing how some of those parents talked to them on TV I see why, How many of these demanding parents volunteer at the schools; do they ever reprimand their children for misbehavior in school?
Jordan Kohanim
September 11th, 2012
8:50 am
At the risk of repeating myself, what SHOULD teachers do when working conditions are unbearable and their attempts at bringing those conditions to light are ignored (or dismissed as whining)? What should they do instead?
Not trying to pick a fight.
I just want to know the solution to this problem. No one wants the kids to suffer, but what avenue is available to them?
Another Math Teacher
September 11th, 2012
9:01 am
Pluto: “Another Math Teacher … glad to know that you are the paragon of truth. Must be a furlough day?”
I wouldn’t know about furlough days. I left the public school system. So, were you posting from school, during school hours?
What are your views about public employees using work resources (bandwidth, computers, power,) and not performing job related duties while being paid?
Jordan Kohanim: “Out of curiosity, what do people think teachers SHOULD do when working conditions become unbearable and all attempts to make things better are ignored (or dismissed as whining)?”
That has been covered time and again. They have said quit.
Joke on us
September 11th, 2012
9:06 am
I have to write in for this one: teachers are not on strike due to pay being the main issue. Basing a teachers effectiveness on some standardized test is the problem. If a student is given a test at the begining of the school year and then retested on the same test at the end; a pretest post-test concept, I can go along with that; but to be subjected to the luck of the draw on what hand you where dealt in getting students from the prior year scores. What if the student just got lucky or what if the prior teacher used other than ethical means to boost their scores? Much like the TKES GA is using today; I can agree with the SLO classes but not with the EOCT ones.
Jordan Kohanim
September 11th, 2012
9:11 am
Another Math Teacher– All of them? They should all quit? Scary idea.
Rocky Geiser
September 11th, 2012
9:48 am
Pluto your name fits you,and I have a novel suggestion. Maybe parents might want to take responsibility for their kids not learning. As a X highschool staff member I was once told by a parent that he was the parent and to quit disiplining their kid. So damit, do your freakin job as parents. If your kid isn’t learning don’t blame the the teacher blame the kid.Get with the program and teachers are not your baby sitters!!! What really kills me is some parents just use school to get rid of their kids. And maybe it would behove you to allow the school to disipline your out of control kid. Don’t get me wrong,not all kids are bad and they do go to school to learn but if yours don’t you might just want to do something about it!!
Just A Teacher
September 11th, 2012
10:46 am
@ Jordan Kohanim “At the risk of repeating myself, what SHOULD teachers do when working conditions are unbearable and their attempts at bringing those conditions to light are ignored (or dismissed as whining)? What should they do instead?”
That’s what the strike is all about. I’m sure none of these teachers would be on strike if there was another alternative. A labor strike is always a last alternative. That is also why we need collective bargaining for public employees in our state. The threat of teachers, policemen, firefighters, social workers, etc. walking off the job would go a long way towards forcing our state officials to treat us with respect and pay us the wages we deserve. I’m not talking about crazy things like time and a half for working over 40 hours or employee bathrooms within easy walking distance. I’m talking about paying a decent wage for people who are highly trained and educated and work very hard in jobs others are unqualified for or too lazy to do.
Another Math Teacher
September 11th, 2012
12:15 pm
Jordan Kohanim: “Another Math Teacher– All of them? They should all quit? Scary idea.”
Wasn’t my idea, but that is the suggestion being made here daily. It may need to happen in a large district.
In Chicago, they would have to replace 21,320 teachers. ( http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx ) Schools would be shut for at least a semester, if not a full academic year. I’ll let you ponder the effects it would have on the city short term and long term.
Sometimes you just have to let them put the fork in the electrical socket.
Mary Elizabeth
September 11th, 2012
2:05 pm
You know the answer to your question, Jordan, and so did Albert Shanker, a half century ago.
Thank you for posing and posting your question, so pointedly and precisely.
Jordan Kohanim
September 11th, 2012
2:10 pm
Mary Elizabeth and Another Math Teacher,
It makes me so sad and frustrated for those teachers who truly want to teach. It’s as though people say “Well, if you really cared about the kids–and did this job for the NOBLE reason– you wouldn’t want equitable pay or working conditions. Is that the type of person people want in the classroom?
Bleh.
Truth in Moderation
September 11th, 2012
2:53 pm
Actually, the teachers’ union has the SAME COMPLAINTS AS GEORGIA TEACHERS! The spin doctors are making it all about money. Here’s their complaint:
“Many of them neglect to mention the background: that last year Rahm withheld a scheduled 4% raise and expanded the school day by 20%. Over the summer, the Chicago Public Schools hired more teachers to do this work, but as some teachers went back to work in August, it became clear the expanded day still represented an increased work load for them (for example, some teachers were being asked to supervise recess during their prep period).
And while health care is a big remaining compensation-related issue, many of the other issues have to do with pedagogy and evaluation and with basic conditions for the students.
For example, the CTU objects to tying teacher pay to new high stakes tests, particularly given that the district is leaving teacher training at the same or lower levels, and that teachers believe the tests in question are inappropriate to their students.
And it objects to all the money Rahm is funneling into new charter schools, basically pulling money out of neighborhood schools and putting it into schools that often exclude disadvantaged students or those with learning challenges.
The union wants a limit to how many kids can be put in one class–and particularly ensure that inner city schools rival the student-teacher ratios of the suburbs.”
sad day
September 11th, 2012
3:12 pm
Pray for the teachers and staff at PS in clayton.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
Chicago Public Schools teachers are the highest paid in the entire United States. They earn an average of $76,000 annually (not including benefits) to work 183 contracted days in the classroom for 5.75 hours daily in elementary schools, slightly longer in secondary schools. They are provided with 20 paid days off a year and work ten fewer days than teachers in the rest of the country. They are objecting to the school year being extended and that they have only been offered a 16% pay raise over four years instead of a 35% raise.
Hardly “unbearable working conditions.”
Chicago Public Schools has some of the worst student achievement outcomes in the United States. 40% of its students drop out of high school. Nevertheless, in 2007, 99.7 percent of teachers in Chicago Public Schools received a “satisfactory” to “distinguished” rating. The union is striking to try to prevent linking teachers’ evaluations to student achievement, even though 75% of any teacher’s evaluation would be based on other factors.
CPS is facing a $700 million budget deficit. The union is striking to force a guaranteed callback of any laid-off employee anyway.
The education employees’ union in Chicago has ZERO credibility now in the eyes of the American general public. It is NOT a “teacher union”–they accept membership from “other education personnel” i.e., teacher aides, administrative support staff, maintenance staff, custodians, and food service workers. More members = more dues = more money for political lobbying. Every hour they extend their strike cuts another gash into the cause of the unionista machine and its endless quest to benefit adults at the expense of the children they are charged with educating.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 11th, 2012
9:37 pm
Truth in Moderation posted, “The union wants a limit to how many kids can be put in one class.”
Of course they do–all education employee unions want that. If you limit the number of kids in a classroom, then you create more teaching positions, which creates more dues-paying union members. If you have more classrooms, you need more square footage, which creates more maintenance & custodial positions, which creates more dues-paying union members.
Lee
September 11th, 2012
10:53 pm
“…as contract talks heated up, union leaders made clear they would accept a smaller raise in exchange for less restrictive job evaluations…
According to this article, 79% of Chicago’s 8th graders are not proficient in Reading and 80% are not proficient in math. Maybe it isn’t about the money….
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-department-education-79-chicago-8th-graders-not-proficient-reading
Truth in Moderation
September 11th, 2012
11:48 pm
“According to this article, 79% of Chicago’s 8th graders are not proficient in Reading and 80% are not proficient in math. Maybe it isn’t about the money….”
Lee, what are APS’s stats? Could it be that we have found a school district worse off than one in GEORGIA?
Dr. Henson, many Get Schooled non-union teacher bloggers have stated the advantages of smaller classes. They also have spoken out against the RTTT mandate to tie teacher evaluations (and pay) to standardized test scores. They don’t like the new assessments either. A certain regular blogger here, who works in special ed, commented one time that she earns over $80,000/year in her rural Georgia public school system. $76,000/year in Chicago isn’t that much. Remember that Mayor Emanuel sends ALL THREE of his kids to a PRIVATE school, the famous Chicago Lab Schools, founded by John “public school” Dewey, at a cost of over $25,000 per child. For that, he could hire a Chicago teacher to privately tutor them for a year! Any teacher that stands against the tyranny of state assessments controlling teacher, student, and tax payer gets my support. Why do you think both parents need to work? Corrupt spending has sucked the life out of this country.
Truth in Moderation
September 12th, 2012
12:18 am
Rahm Emanuel must be getting desperate. He has held a photo op with the unschooled Chicago children at the “Safe Haven” program, hosted by MARANATHA CHURCH. Of course, any Christian knows that “maranatha” is Aramaic for “Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!” ……oops.
Perhaps the Truett Cathy can get the Chick-fil-a in Chicago to send over some free chicken nuggets.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-teachers-strike-rahm-emanuel-20120911,0,2182343.story
Mary Elizabeth
September 12th, 2012
12:27 am
“According to this article, 79% of Chicago’s 8th graders are not proficient in Reading and 80% are not proficient in math. Maybe it isn’t about the money….”
—————————————————————–
Maybe our nation leaders – from the federal level, to the state and local levels – need to address more aggressively the poverty in which students live, as closely as they must address school conditions, in which students learn, in order to foster significant increases in students’ standardized test scores.
Truth in Moderation
September 12th, 2012
6:21 am
Interesting coincidence for Mayor Emanuel:
“His mother, Martha Smulevitz, worked as an X-ray technician and was the daughter of a local union organizer. She became a civil rights activist.”
http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/article/rahm_emanuel_obamas_pick_for_chief_of_staff_is_tough_direct_and_wedded_to_h
long time educator
September 12th, 2012
7:30 am
The striking Chicago teachers make all teachers look bad to the general public. Their working conditions and salaries do not sound “unbearable” to regular taxpayers. Our teacher organizations in Georgia are ineffective, but I would not join a union that strikes. We do need leadership that will stand up for hardworking teachers, but the general public will not support job guarantees and raises that are unavailable in the private sector.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 12th, 2012
7:36 am
Truth in Moderation, stating “the advantages of smaller classes” doesn’t make it a fact. The research stream going back decades shows that smaller classes affect student achievement in the primary grades and in classes for at-risk students, such as sheltered English for nonnative speakers. Changing class size up or down doesn’t cause teachers to change HOW they teach–excellent teachers still get excellent outcomes, mediocre teachers get mediocre ones, and poor teachers get poor ones. Check the research base.
75% of CPS teachers’ evaluations would be based on factors other than student achievement outcomes on standardized testing. Hard to argue that test scores will doom teachers to bad evals.
The non-union teachers of Georgia who pay membership dues to the Georgia Association of Educators are paying to support the National Education Association education employees union. There are no true “teachers’ unions” in the United States.
20/20
September 12th, 2012
8:39 am
APS is definitely like working in hell these days. Thought Beverly Hall was bad! ERROLL DAVIS, STEVE SMITH and KAREN WALDON are a DISASTER!!!
Truth in Moderation
September 12th, 2012
8:49 am
@Dr. Henson
The average class size at Mayor Emanuel’s children’s school ($25,000/year) is 18. They also claim a 1:9 teacher/student ratio. Why doesn’t the school put 40/class and make lots more money?
http://www.privateschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/9737
Truth in Moderation
September 12th, 2012
10:33 am
Car horns blaring in Chicago…..in support of teacher strike!
“Teachers trust their leadership. They don’t trust the mayor — who the union’s feisty president, Karen Lewis, claims told her at a social outing at the ballet shortly after his election “that 25 percent of the students in this city are never going to be anything, never going to amount to anything and he was never going to throw money at them.” The exchange points to a key hinge in the story: Who in the dispute, the teachers’ union or the mayor, most earnestly has the interests of “the children” at heart?”
http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=155629
Dr. Monica Henson
September 12th, 2012
11:21 am
Truth in Moderation: Private schools typically boast small class sizes in order to cater to parents’ desire for “more individual attention,” despite the reality that it’s not the class size that is making the difference, unless it’s a therapeutic school for special needs. Simple marketing.
The answer to your question–why don’t private schools boost class sizes?–is because their paying customers don’t want them to.
Just A Teacher
September 12th, 2012
3:23 pm
The major sticking point here is Teacher Evaluations. The teachers are striking over whether their jobs should depend on children’s ability and choice to bubble in the correct answers on standardized tests. We all know these tests are meaningless and are teaching students nothing. Why should teachers evaluations be based on a skill which has no value in the real world? When was the last time your boss told you to bubble in a scantron sheet? I’ve never had a job where that was part of my duties.
N. GA Teacher
September 12th, 2012
8:53 pm
A lot of bloggers her, especially nonteachers, miss the point here: the point of a strike is to use the best leverage against unfair employer demands. The teachers are striking FOR THE MOST PART to get the idiotic evaluation instrument off their backs. It has been soundly proven that “value-added” crap and “measurable student achievement” is largely a result of socioeconomic conditions and not teaching. (although all teachers do agree that some teachers are better than others and that poor teachers need to be weeded out). Administrators and teachers in EVERY building already KNOW who the good and bad teachers are, and why. Second, Chicago is unbelievably expensive. Even what we would consider “working-class” 3 bedroom, one-bathroom 1960s homes often cost over $300,000. Cheaper ones are often in very dangerous neighborhoods. So &76,000 is not a big deal. Keep in mind that accountants, engineers, computer pros, and other college grads make MORE, even when time off in the summer is factored in. Teachers in Chicago are fighting to be treated fairly. They already are underpaid and many have to put up with unruly students. They do not deserve to have a new atrocious evaluation system added to these things.
Truth in Moderation
September 12th, 2012
9:08 pm
As a Baby Boomer, I had 35-40 in my classes from K-12 and ONE teacher/class. That’s one of the reasons I home school. Class size DOES make a difference.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 12th, 2012
10:08 pm
Truth in Moderation: care to cite any evidence?
Just a Teacher, posted “We all know these tests are meaningless and are teaching students nothing.”
We know that 79% of Chicago Public Schools 8th graders are below grade level in reading, and 80% of them are below grade level in math. It’s not the tests that are “teaching students nothing.”
Kunta Kinte
September 13th, 2012
8:57 am
@Dr. Monica Henson,
What kind of doctor are you? Apparently, you are not the kind that works with children in school. If I were you, I would lose the Dr. title because you sound like a complete idiot in all of your postings. Socio-economics does play a role is success and failure of students. Here’s scenario for the dumb doctor:
A: Little Johnny has diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease. He has been going to the doctor for years. The doctor gives him a plan to control it, with help from his mom, for course; however, once he leaves the doctor’s office, his mom allows him to eat candy, all of the starchy foods that he wants, and on top of that, his blood sugar level is never checked. In the end, Little Johnny succumbs from the above-mentioned diagnoses. So, who’s at fault? The dumb doctor (Dr. Henson) will blame everything on the doctor.
B: Little Johnny can’t read! In fact, he doesn’t even know his real name, nor does he know how to spell it….and he is now in 1st grade. The teacher provides tutorial and sends homeword and supplemental materials home for Little Johnny to practice. The teacher has made numerous attempts to contact Little Johnny’s mother, but the mother is either too busy or she blames everything on the teacher. Little Johnny doesn’t return any of the homework or supplemental material in to the teacher. In addition to that, Little Johnny says he doesn’t have any books to read at his house.
In this scenario, the dumb doctor would blame the teacher. Look, I am sure that there are several poor teachers out there; like there are many others serving in jobs that they are perhaps not qualified for, but this case, like many others, it is a CLASS ISSUE, and not a teacher issue.
Truth in Moderation
September 13th, 2012
1:27 pm
@Dr. Henson
Home school statistics:
“3. In 1991, a survey of standardized test scores was performed by the Home School Legal Defense Association in cooperation with the Psychological Corporation, which publishes the Stanford Achievement Test. The study involved the administering of the Stanford Achievement Test (8th Edition, Form J) to 5,124 homeschooled students. These students represented all 50 states and their grades ranged from K-12. This testing was administered in Spring 1991 under controlled test conditions in accordance with the test publisher’s standards. All test administers were screened, trained, and approved pursuant to the publisher’s requirements. All tests were machine-scored by the Psychological Corporation.
These 5,124 homeschoolers’ composite scores on the basic battery of tests in reading, math, and language arts ranked 18 to 28 percentile points above public school averages. For instance, 692 homeschooled 4th graders averaged in the 77th percentile in reading, the 63rd percentile in math, and the 70th percentile in language arts. Sixth-grade homeschoolers, of 505 tested, scored in the 76th percentile in reading, the 65th percentile in math, and the 72nd percentile in language arts.
The homeschooled high schoolers did even better, which goes against the trend in public schools where studies show the longer a child is in the public schools, the lower he scores on standardized tests. One hundred and eighteen tenth-grade homeschool students, as a group, made an average score of the 82nd percentile in reading, the 70th percentile in math, and the 81st percentile in language arts.”
More statistics at:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Prof
September 13th, 2012
2:14 pm
@ Truth in Moderation. I think that Dr. Henson is asking for data to support your contention that smaller classes assure better education and higher test scores for the students. I’m curious too, since “smaller classes” of one student carry with them educational problems of their own that don’t relate to test scores. Also, it would seem that a 1991 educational survey is generally outdated.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 13th, 2012
2:36 pm
Thanks, Prof. You’re exactly right.
Truth in Moderation
September 13th, 2012
2:43 pm
@Prof
If you go to the link, it covers many more statistics, including some from 2009. You must realize, each home school is an independent school, and home schoolers by nature don’t like standardized anything. Therefore, the statistical surveys are taken at nonstandard intervals. There are more recent statistics out there, but someone has to independently put them together…and fund it. Many home schoolers take the ITBS, and the testing service does identify them as home schoolers, but I don’t think they release statistics on them as a separate group. My kids have consistently been in the 85th-95th percentile in all subjects. I know many other home schoolers with similar or better scores, some in the 99th percentile. Home schoolers, by definition, have very small teacher/pupil ratio. Even outside home school classes generally have 10 or less per class. I have taught them before, and I never had over 10.
Truth in Moderation
September 13th, 2012
3:18 pm
See, WAPO agrees with me. Chicago teachers are standing against RTTT CHAINS. Mayor Emanuel has promised to raise the assessment performance/accountability/paycheck percentage from 25 PERCENT TO 40 PERCENT! This gives a total monopoly to politicians and BIG TESTING! Keep up the fight, Chicago!
“The quick adoption was driven by Obama administration policies, with most states pledging to establish new teacher and principal evaluation systems in order to compete for money under President Obama’s $4.3 billion Race to the Top contest. States seeking waivers from the administration for some of the No Child Left Behind law’s requirements also had to adopt education policies that include judging teacher performance based in part on student test scores.
Lawmakers in Illinois, as part of the state’s bid under Race to the Top, passed legislation last year requiring that at least 25 percent of a teacher’s rating be based on student test scores.
In Chicago, Mayor Rahm Emanuel drew the ire of the Chicago Teachers Union in part because he wants to increase the weight given to student test scores over five years, with the scores ultimately accounting for 40 percent of a teacher’s job performance rating. Those with consistently poor ratings would lose their jobs.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/issues-at-heart-of-chicago-teachers-strike-playing-out-in-classrooms-nationwide/2012/09/12/1b07e51e-fd0d-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9_story.html?tid=obinsite
Prof
September 13th, 2012
3:50 pm
@ Truth in Moderation. So there really isn’t any reliable statistical data on homeschooling, is that what you’re saying?
Again, where’s the data to back up your assertion about smaller classes that was requested by Dr. Henson?
“He/she who asserts must prove.”
Ole Guy
September 13th, 2012
4:14 pm
Lets howbout we knock it off with the Jewish Mommas’ guilt game of “…the students are the ones out…” Yes, the kids are the ultimate losers, but whose idea is behind the whole gd mess? Is it the teachers…as some might portend…or is the the gd administration who thinks they can manage these teachers like so many machines. At least these teachers have the professional spheroids to TAKE COMMAND OF THE PROFESSION (sond familiar?) If the powers that be want to do their jobs…that of educating kids…they can start with a little empowerment of the teacher corps.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 13th, 2012
5:18 pm
[Crickets] is what I always get when I ask for research to back up the assertion that smaller class sizes actually produce improved student achievement outcomes in the general education setting in grades 4-12.
Truth in Moderation
September 13th, 2012
10:00 pm
@Prof
The data I gave was statistically reliable for the home schoolers tested at that time. Read the entire report.
It is certainly as reliable as APS’s years of data based on “erased” answers (CHEATING).
The only data I am concerned with is my own kids’ data. Our small home school class has produced excellent test results. I know for a fact that my kids have had a much better education than I had.
Truth in Moderation
September 14th, 2012
9:28 am
“Corporate Media’s War on Public Education”
http://theintelhub.com/2012/09/13/corporate-medias-war-on-public-education/
DeKalb Teacher
September 14th, 2012
11:35 am
@ Dr Henson – Regarding class size and student achievement
Let’s assume that a student:teacher ratio of 1:1 (aka private tutor) produces higher student achievement than a classroom with a 50:1 student-teacher ratio. It is safe to say that student achievement asymptotically approaches 0 as the ratio gets much larger. ie 1000:1, 10000:1, etc.
By filling in the missing points on that curve, we can see that student achievement is indeed lower as class sizes (student-teacher ratios) get larger. That is unless you disagree with my premise that a private tutor produces higher student achievement than a student in a class of 50.
Q.E.D. for all intents and purposes
Prof
September 14th, 2012
11:53 am
@ Truth in Moderation.
This is what you stated at 2:43 pm yesterday: “@Prof. You must realize, each home school is an independent school, and home schoolers by nature don’t like standardized anything. Therefore, the statistical surveys are taken at nonstandard intervals. There are more recent statistics out there, but someone has to independently put them together…and fund it. Many home schoolers take the ITBS, and the testing service does identify them as home schoolers, but I don’t think they release statistics on them as a separate group.”
How is that “statistically reliable”? According to what you say, no-one seems to test home-schooled students as a group at regular intervals, or compare them with students who aren’t home-schooled.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 14th, 2012
12:12 pm
DeKalb Teacher, your premise is indeed faulty. You are comparing two entirely different situations; the mode of individualized instruction cannot be sustained as the number of students rises; moreover, reliance on the individual tutorial mode exclusively is not the optimum way to educate students, as it eliminates several other highly effective modes. Classroom teachers do not use individualized tutorial for each student except in extremely limited circumstances, such as a special education resource room.
Further, the research that has been done for decades on class-size reduction demonstrates that in a general education setting, teachers do not alter their modes of instruction when the class sizes is reduced. That’s why it doesn’t work. In other words, giving a teacher a class of 12 students does not mean that now the teacher will begin using individual tutorial, cooperative group learning, or any other mode of instruction that the teacher wasn’t ALREADY using with a class of 30 students. That’s why it holds true that an excellent teacher will get excellent outcomes whether s/he has 15, 25, or 35 kids, a mediocre teacher will get mediocre outcomes, and a bad teacher will get bad outcomes.
What does happen is that the teacher continues to use the same modes of instruction, but has fewer papers to grade and may have fewer disciplinary issues because some of the disruptive kids are no longer present. The poor classroom management and heavy use of less effective modes of instruction such as lengthy lectures and reliance on kill & drill worksheets doesn’t change in badly taught classrooms.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 14th, 2012
1:13 pm
The premise that an individual tutor automatically produces higher achievement than a teacher in a classroom is equally faulty. It all depends on the skill & experience level of the tutor and the teacher. We’re not talking about widgets.
Finally, the premise that individualized tutoring is the most superior mode of instruction is flawed as well.
DeKalb Teacher
September 14th, 2012
2:08 pm
Whooooooaaaaa …. Dr Henson.
You just threw in a bunch of variables I thought we were holding constant. First of all this whole debate is flawed because I wouldn’t correlate teachers and student achievement much less say that one causes the other.
I agree with you in one aspect. When a teacher gives “a lecture”, the number of recipients of said lecture is irrelevant. Assuming no differentiated instruction, which you do, a student will learn from that lecture the same whether they are in a group of 10 or 1000.
Like you said, the more students a teacher has the less individual instruction there is per student. There is definitely individual instruction occurring in primary education in more settings than special education. I’m not saying individualized tutoring is superior. I am saying that one on one with an instructor to help with a calculus problem will increase student achievement.
Yes … yes … yes … an excellent teacher with 50 students will have more student achievement than a bad teacher with 50 students (thanks Sherlock). BUT … I bet if the excellent teacher takes 5 of those students and teaches them in a class with a 10:1 ratio, their student achievement will be even greater.
In conclusion, the more students you have the less individualized instruction you have per student. The amount of individualized instruction per student approaches zero given large enough student:teacher ratios. Therefore, assuming teachers have anything to do with student achievement, smaller classes produce more student achievement.
Q.E.D.
Prof
September 14th, 2012
2:11 pm
@ Dr. Henson, 1:13 pm. I would think that it also depends upon the educational level of the tutor and teacher. The individualized tutor should have an objectively demonstrated mastery of the subject being taught the student, through educational degrees, or programs or courses of study in higher education.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 14th, 2012
11:34 pm
Dekalb Teacher, I don’t accept that a teacher with smaller classes will (or should) provide increased individualized instruction. I happen to have studied the research base on CSR, so I know that it bears this out–it’s not just a “bet” that I feel. If your premise is correct, that the smaller the class size, the higher the student achievement produced, then I’m sure that you can produce some educational research that is generally accepted by peer review and supports your assertion. I’d very much like to see it.
Tech Prof
September 15th, 2012
7:18 am
Many are quick to criticize these teachers and yell that the students must come first. I hope these same people yell and criticize our insane politicians who chop, chop, chop away at Education funding. Those politicians are not keeping our young people first.
Taylor
September 15th, 2012
9:20 am
Georgia taxpayers hate public sector unions. Why wouldn’t they? It pays to keep employees powerless. School boards are political cowards. When they face budget shortfalls, the first place they go is a cut to teacher pay and benefits. Okay, employees know that in this economic climate, they have to chip in. We are five years down the road and each individual teacher has lost thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars in pay cuts, furlough days, increased benefit costs and diminished future pensions. Teachers are literally paying to keep class sizes down at the same time staff is cut. Meanwhile, property taxes are down as assessments have fallen. At some point, the community is going to have to accept class sizes of 50 students or support a tax increase. You can’t expect to pay less and keep getting the same level of service. It is unacceptable to keep balancing the budget on the backs of the staff. Chicago teachers may want unreasonable pay increases. Georgia teachers would like to be earning what they earned five years ago! I only wish teachers had a union in Georgia.
Mary Elizabeth
September 15th, 2012
9:45 am
Georgia teachers would like to be earning what they earned five years ago! I only wish teachers had a union in Georgia.
————————————————————————-
Georgia has had a history of societal paternalism (including attitudes toward and perception of teachers), which translates to hierarchial thinking related to power. Georgia would be better served embracing a more egalitarian vision, which our founders embraced. Thus, I tend to agree that Georgia might be better served if those in power positions allowed teachers’ unions in this state. For some reason, students in states where there are teacher’s unions score higher on standardized test scores than students in states without teachers unions. There are, no doubt, many reasons for that phenomenon.
Also, in my thirty-five years of teaching experience, I have witnessed that smaller class size does make a difference in the quality of instruction delivered to individual students, especially in grades K – 3rd grade. Moreover, those students who invariably will be behind their peers on the curriculum continuum, in all grade levels, will require more individual attention to succeed. Smaller class size allows for more individual attention from the teacher.
DeKalb Teacher
September 15th, 2012
10:16 am
Dr Henson. – Class Size and Student Achievement
I stand corrected.
I spoke at great length this morning with someone that knows a lot more than me about “these” things than I do. You were right and I was wrong. We also talked about how challenging (sometimes impossible) it is to have this conversation with the general public (like myself). I couldn’t have this conversation with my colleagues.
In conclusion,
For every study that shows that students learn more with a lower student:teacher ratio, there is a study that shows kids learn more with higher student:teacher ratios with a diminished margin of return.
If anybody doesn’t believe me, you’re not going to unless you sit down with an open mind and really talk about it.
long time educator
September 15th, 2012
3:36 pm
In my early years of teaching, I was a fifth grade homeroom teacher. One year I had 22-23 students; the next year I had 27-28. It makes a huge difference. In one practical way, I needed to fit in 5 more desks in an already crowded classroom. In elementary school we often cluster desks into groups, so that is akin to finding room for another 4 desk cluster. We share everything in class, so 5 more students means less computer time per student in the room and doubling up in the computer lab. The year I had 22-23 we did lots of art and project type learning because we had room to spread out. The next year, it was just so much harder to find room and manage the group, so we did less of the fun stuff. I still taught the curriculum both years, but the smaller group had more fun and so did I.
long time educator
September 15th, 2012
3:53 pm
When we went to school years ago with 30-35 in a class, it was a whole different world. Discipline was much better (a phone call home was all it took); there was no inclusion of children with disabilities or behavior issues, which often today means the inclusion of other teachers or parapros that come with them and makes it even more crowded in a room that was not built for multiple adults, technology that takes up alot of room and cooperative learning groups, The classrooms we are using were built back in the 50’s for 30 small desks lined in rows facing the front for lecture type instruction, even in early elementary school.
Pride and Joy
September 15th, 2012
6:18 pm
Just a teacher wrote something very weirf “We all know these tests are meaningless and are teaching students nothing.”
Tests don’t teach. Tests measure what’s taught. These tests are extremely meaningful. One score on ONE test got me full tuition at college, which was worth about $40,000 in 1990s dollars.
One test was worth $40,000 and you say they are meaningless? pfffft.
Kids need to know how to take and how to ace standardized tests.
d
September 15th, 2012
8:42 pm
Actually, tests do not measure what is taught, they measure what is learned – if they are written properly. If a student cannot figure out what is being asked, it doesn’t matter what he or she knows, the student likely cannot answer correctly. If the question is indeed flawed, a student is at the disadvantage, and I, as a teacher who values my certificate, cannot view the questions to make sure they aren’t flawed.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 16th, 2012
2:17 am
DeKalb Teacher, thanks for taking the time to look further. It amazed me once I started looking at the actual facts myself, years ago.
For all of those educators who cite their years of classroom experience and pronounce that “class size does make a difference” and “more individual attention can be paid to each student,” I encourage you actually to read the research stream and stop mouthing platitudes that “feel” like they are correct. The simple fact is that as class sizes become smaller, teachers do NOT begin individualizing instruction more, if at all. They may “feel” like they do, but the student achievement outcomes demonstrate that there is no statistically significant improvement, except in the primary grades and in sheltered environments for high-risk students.
Mary Elizabeth
September 16th, 2012
10:42 am
@Dr. Monica Henson, 2:17 am
(1) “The simple fact is that as class sizes become smaller, teachers do NOT begin individualizing instruction more, if at all.”
(2) “They may ‘feel’ like they do, but the student achievement outcomes demonstrate that there is no statistically significant improvement, except in the primary grades and in sheltered environments for high-risk students.”
———————————————————————————-
Regarding (1) above: You present only an either/or dichotomy. That is too simple a presentation. Although it is true that teachers do not automatically begin individualizing instruction more when pupil/teacher ratio is lowered, the fact remains that, when pupil/teacher ratio is lowered, teachers who do individualize more in their instruction will have more quality time to give to each student. The discussion should alao focus on degree, or the amount of time a teacher will be able to give to each student, not simply upon a “Yea” or “Nay,” regarding lowered pupil/teacher ratio. (Imo, in addition to an emphasis on lowered pupil/teacher ratio, emphasis must also be placed upon increasing teacher training in how to better individualize instruction.)
(2) I fail to see a fundamental difference in your comments in #2 above, and my comments at 9:45 am, Sept. 15, 2012, restated below. I have capitalized words which will highlight the concurrence of our points. (Please notice that I did not mention the word, “feel,” as you describe, but that I used the word “witnessed.” Are you suggesting that 35 years of witnessing the positive effects of lowered pupil/teacher ratio, by an educational leader, does not have validity, especially when students’ pre and post tests scores were continually analyzed by that leader?) :
=====================================
Mary Elizabeth: “(I)n my thirty-five years of teaching experience, I have witnessed that smaller class size does make a difference in the quality of instruction delivered to individual students, ESPECIALLY in GRADE K – 3rd GRADE. MOREOVER, THOSE STUDENTS WHO invariably WILL BE BEHIND THEIR PEERS on the curriculum continuum, in all grade levels, will require more individual attention to succeed.”
Dr. Henson: “. . .student achievement outcomes demonstrate that there is no statistically significant improvement, EXCEPT IN THE PRIMARY GRADES AND in sheltered environments FOR HIGH-RISK STUDENTS.”
==============================================
Dr. Henson, is it not true that Provost Academy, in which you work, does not place emphasis on lowered pupil/teacher ratio, and that classes may become quite large within the virtual instruction delivered at Provost Academy? Also, do you not have a large proportion of “at-risk” students among your student population at Provost Academy?
Truth in Moderation
September 17th, 2012
8:05 am
“there is no statistically significant improvement, EXCEPT IN THE PRIMARY GRADES and in sheltered environments FOR HIGH RISK STUDENTS.”
This says it all! This is why home schoolers (including special ed) excel when other socioeconomic factors are held constant. K through 5th are the most important grades. The foundations of all other learning are being laid: reading, writing and arithmetic. If you mess this up, scores trend DOWNWARD in the higher grades. Home school statistics showed that scores went UP at the high school level.
“These 5,124 homeschoolers’ composite scores on the basic battery of tests in reading, math, and language arts ranked 18 to 28 percentile points above public school averages. For instance, 692 homeschooled 4th graders averaged in the 77th percentile in reading, the 63rd percentile in math, and the 70th percentile in language arts. Sixth-grade homeschoolers, of 505 tested, scored in the 76th percentile in reading, the 65th percentile in math, and the 72nd percentile in language arts.
The homeschooled high schoolers did even better, which goes against the trend in public schools where studies show the longer a child is in the public schools, the lower he scores on standardized tests. One hundred and eighteen tenth-grade homeschool students, as a group, made an average score of the 82nd percentile in reading, the 70th percentile in math, and the 81st percentile in language arts.”
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Statistics don’t lie.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 20th, 2012
11:13 pm
“Although it is true that teachers do not automatically begin individualizing instruction more when pupil/teacher ratio is lowered, the fact remains that, when pupil/teacher ratio is lowered, teachers who do individualize more in their instruction will have more quality time to give to each student.”
Mary Elizabeth’s statement, above, perfectly illustrates my point that teachers do not change the way they teach when their class size goes down (which the research based in fact supports)–caps for emphasis–”teachers WHO DO INDIVIDUALIZE MORE IN THEIR INSTRUCTION will have more quality time to give to each student.”
Excellent teachers will continue to have students who excel, regardless of their class size, because excellent teachers have a repertoire of effective instructional strategies. They also individualize instruction and differentiate effectively, which mediocre and poor teachers do not do. Therefore, it stands to reason that an effective teacher would take advantage of the opportunity to individualize more if that teacher’s class size were reduced. Nevertheless, that same teacher is going to continue to see excellent student outcomes even if the class size is increased–because that teacher will use effective strategies to instruct the kids.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 20th, 2012
11:20 pm
“Are you suggesting that 35 years of witnessing the positive effects of lowered pupil/teacher ratio, by an educational leader, does not have validity, especially when students’ pre and post tests scores were continually analyzed by that leader?)”
Unless I have missed something, you were not an administrator but a classroom teacher (I use the term “educational leader” to characterize a principal or district administrator), so please correct me if I’m wrong. I will answer you in what I believe to be your capacity of a classroom teacher of 35 years.
I have no doubt, Mary Elizabeth, that you were an effective and conscientious teacher. I do not doubt that the students in your classroom fared well regardless of your class sizes, and that when you had smaller class sizes your success rates may have been higher than when you had larger classes–but I’m also willing to wager that we are talking about degrees of excellent success, not wild pendulum swings of success with tiny classes and failure with larger classes.
You are a single teacher, and your experience, valuable as it is, cannot be extrapolated to substantiate a broad assertion that class size reduction improves student achievement. It makes perfect sense to your in your own experience (hence the “feeling” that it is a valid conclusion applicable to all classrooms and all teachers), but it is not the case when the large numbers necessary to reach a statistically valid conclusion are applied. There are decades of research on CSR, across thousands of classrooms.
Dr. Monica Henson
September 20th, 2012
11:35 pm
“Dr. Henson, is it not true that Provost Academy, in which you work, does not place emphasis on lowered pupil/teacher ratio, and that classes may become quite large within the virtual instruction delivered at Provost Academy? Also, do you not have a large proportion of ‘at-risk’ students among your student population at Provost Academy?”
It is absolutely correct that Provost Academy Georgia does not emphasize a lowered teacher-student ratio. In fact, we do not measure “class size” in the traditional sense, because our teachers do not teach in the traditional fashion, where a room of 30 to 35 high schoolers meet at the same time for a defined time period daily for 180 days a year. “Class size” simply does not apply. What we do provide is a far more individualized experience because we have reallocated the resources of time for the 80%+ of students we enroll who at grade level and above. Students are not locked into 180 days of seat time to earn a credit. As a result, 150 students may start studying coordinate algebra in August, with about 1/4 of them finishing by October and November, about 1/2 of them completing by February and March, and the remaining 1/4 by May and June. The math teachers are not preparing daily lesson plans to be executed in one-hour increments, because that forces students into an artificial progression as a cohort that may or may not (actually, probably does not) match their ability to move through the course. Each student is a class of one, with asynchronous instruction providing the base from which the teacher monitors student progress. Tutoring, enrichment, additional resources, etc., are prescribed individually as needed, rather than administered wholesale to everyone at the same time.
For the at-risk population in the larger cities where we are putting Magic Johnson Bridgescape centers, we are structuring approximately 20% of their time in the center with the opportunity for DIRECT instruction in person with our teachers, small-group along with individualized instruction. The key is identifying those students who NEED that kind of instruction, then making it accessible to them.
We do have some kids in our online classrooms who need direct instruction and small-group tutoring–they are able to access that in the virtual environment–but not a large percentage of them do, and most of them are special education students. We provide daily live-link small groups for our kids on IEPs with our special education staff. Eventually, we hope to have enough Bridgescape centers around the state so that our students in the cloud can take advantage of them, too, not just our urban at-risk kids with access to public transportation.