Condoleezza Rice on education last night: Crisis in K-12 education is threat to America
Condoleezza Rice said the crisis in education was a "grave threat to who we are." (Harry E. Walker/MCT)
A few of you asked that we discuss Condoleezza Rice’s education comments from her speech last night at the Republican National Convention.
Overall, her comments on education were the standard stuff: We need better teachers, higher standards and greater choice.
Since Rice’s speech focused on all the issues in this election with a wide-angle lens, she didn’t go deep on how to achieve those goals. And those goals are not as straightforward as they sound.
For example, the research suggests that pay alone will not entice the brightest college students to consider teaching; we also need to raise the stature of the profession.
And the question around standards, as always, is who sets the standards? We are now following standards set by a national group of state leaders, of which former Gov. Sonny Perdue was a co-chair.
Rice mentioned “greater choice” without mention of either charter schools or vouchers.
Here is the part of her speech where she addressed education:
We have been successful too because Americans have known that one’s status at birth was not a permanent station in life. You might not be able to control your circumstances but you could control your response to your circumstances. And your greatest ally in doing so was a quality education.
Let me ask you, though, today, when I can look at your zip code and can tell whether you are going to get a good education – can I really say that it doesn’t matter where you came from – it matters where you are going. The crisis in K-12 education is a grave threat to who we are.
My mom was a teacher – I have the greatest respect for the profession – we need great teachers – not poor or mediocre ones. We need to have high standards for our students – self-esteem comes from achievement not from lax standards and false praise. And we need to give parents greater choice – particularly poor parents whose kids – most often minorities — are trapped in failing neighborhood schools. This is the civil rights struggle of our day.
If we do anything less, we will condemn generations to joblessness, hopelessness and dependence on the government dole. To do anything less is to endanger our global economic competitiveness. To do anything less is to tear apart the fabric of who we are and cement a turn toward grievance and entitlement.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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101 comments Add your comment
HS Public Teacher
August 30th, 2012
11:09 am
Isn’t this the same stuff said over and over again (by republicans) regarding education? Blame the teachers, change the standards (have a moving target), etc.
How about addressing what most EVERYONE agrees will make the most difference? How about asking parents to step up to the plate?
Too many parents continue to view schools as simply a place to “drop off the kid” and have them baby sit for the day and to feed their kid lunch.
Why don’t the republicans say, something like…. “We need parents to ensure that their child studies every night. We need parents to become involved with their child’s education and work with the teachers.” And, so on?????
Oh yeah – because they love to simply blame the teachers.
Jerry Eads
August 30th, 2012
11:25 am
Maybe the two parties could compete for greatest platitudes. The one with the biggest, most ridiculous, most worthless, most banal wins.
Dr. Clete Bulach
August 30th, 2012
11:29 am
There are 6 causes for low test scores and teachers are not one of the causes. The biggest cause for low test scores is time lost in the teaching process because teachers have to stop teaching to discipline or correct student misbehavior. Next is students come to school and their five basic needs are not being met. Next is the culture and climate of most schools is in need or improvement. A fourth cause is the way power is used to control faculty and students. The fifth cause is the role of parents and community in the school. The last cause is the levels of openness and trust. Each of these six causes creates a lack of motivation and low test scores.
How to create a school culture and climate where these causes are eliminated is the subject of our book on how the create a high performing school culture that improves test scores, reduced dropouts and bullying behavior.
Pluto
August 30th, 2012
11:34 am
So HS Public Teacher all of the educational woes in this country can be laid at the feet of republicans? Give me a break. Nothing like having open minded teachers indoctrinating our students.
East Cobb Parent
August 30th, 2012
11:34 am
@ HS Public Teacher
Teachers need to teach, period. Hard for me to respect a teacher that uses the flip model – go home watch a video and do the problems in class, ask about a specific problem but don’t ask me to expand or go in-depth to explain why a formula works. When teachers adopt this sort of philosophy they are part of the problem.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2012
11:39 am
we need to give parents greater choice – particularly poor parents whose kids – most often minorities — are trapped in failing neighborhood schools. This is the civil rights struggle of our day.
This is why I can’t stomach Republicans. “All those poor black children being oppressed in their neighborhood schools, we need vouc…wait, CIVIL RIGHTS!!!!”
Disgusting.
Pluto
August 30th, 2012
11:48 am
But Aquagirl isn’t it the Dems that are all for preventing poor children or any children for that matter from ever being born. So the fact that there are poor children is again a tribute to the Dems because your guy’s oversight to this country has been a dismal failure and led to thousands of new poor people. I am sure you have several other reasons you can’t stomach Republicans so let’s not sugar coat it.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
11:48 am
I am saddened and ASHAMED of one Condolezza Rice. Such great Intelligence and Intellect, However void of WISDOM & UNDERSTANDING.
Surely, if her own parents were alive, they would not support the very people who have wrongly oppressed and abused an entire group of people based on skin color alone. One would think after all all of the pain and destruction she has been personally, intimately responsible for inflicting on the MILLIONS of American Families across this great Nation. One also would have thought she would have started her speech with GREAT HUMBLENESS and CONTRITION.
I could not help but think of the MANY Grandmothers,Mothers,Sisters, Wives, Girlfriends and the millions of children who are without their much needed LOVE and affection that they will MISS and never experience again. Not to mention the millions of Men women and the CHILDREN of IRAQ who paid the ultimate price. Because of the miscalculation,intentional misguidance and the out right LIES sold to the American People about the WAR in IRAQ by Condolezza Rice.
Last Night my thoughts were with them. Sadly crying thinking of their pain and their loneliness last night!
This is NOT the REAL America I know and LOVE!
MiltonMan
August 30th, 2012
11:52 am
“Isn’t this the same stuff said over and over again (by republicans) regarding education? Blame the teachers, change the standards (have a moving target), etc.”
It is rather pathetic that teachers are still in bed with the democrats & they keep spewing the same message that their democratic handlers request of them. It was none other than the Democratic Governor Roy Barnes who took the first shot in this state for blaming teachers. The teachers association (the NEA) blindly endorsed none other than Roy Barnes when he ran back in 2010.
MiltonMan
August 30th, 2012
11:59 am
Hey teachers who keep blaming republicans for problems with education in this state, answer me the following questions:
(1) Where were you clowns for the 130+ years when democrats were in charge of this state & education was also crappy during this time??? Answer: Our heads were in the sand because we are nothing more than democratic minions.
(2) Were are the most successful districts in term of education in this state??? Answer: None other than republican controlled areas.
Bottom Line: Take this attitude of “the republicans really, really hate us & education” and shove it!
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
Condi’s next goal is to see the HOLLOWING OUT of the American Public Education
SCHOOL SYSTEM with the planned implementation of a NATIONWIDE School Voucher payment system.
Condi, No longer supports and advocates, the very educational system that allowed her to reach the very heights she herself has attained. It was so sad to watch such Hypocritical behavior being cheered on by Fellow Americans.
Condi was just selling her usual trinkets last night…FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! and more FEAR!
I do not believe Americans are in that Market any longer. She should return to Stanford and let America move on. Condi had her chance and failed miserably!
She is one WOMAN America, would better off if she would just SIT down and be QUIET!
Jessica
August 30th, 2012
12:05 pm
@ HS Public Teacher, are you one of the poor or mediocre teachers? I can’t see why a good teacher would feel so threatened by the thought of being expected to perform well.
The government can’t mandate good parenting, other than the prevention of extreme abuse and neglect. It’s beyond the scope of what government can and should do. The quality of education provided in public schools, on the other hand, IS the business of the government at some level or another.
@ Aquagirl, these comments were made by a black woman who grew up in Alabama in the time of segregation. She probably has a better personal understanding of civil rights than most people. You are entitled to your opinion, but it’s in very poor taste for you to call her ‘disgusting’ for expressing HER opinion on civil rights.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
12:15 pm
Jessica @ 12:05 pm – Just as Aquagirl felt a sense of DISGUST! so did I and both of my parents who are well into their 80’s and a number of their friends who called during that same speech expressing outrage of her selfish behavior concerning the African American community.
If you could only hear the LOUD Curses and Rage being shouted at the many televisions by MILLIONS of the African American community at CONDI RICE last night. She was called names too polite to post even HERE!
You would have been SHOCKED and SURPRISED beyond BELIEF!
williebkind
August 30th, 2012
12:16 pm
The point I got from her speach about education was she was not forced to go to school by the government. She wanted to go she studied and she got the funds to complete it. That is not what is being preached about education. The sermon I keep hearing is get a college degree and you will succeed. Yeah how is that working these days for the liberal arts?
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
12:17 pm
I was busy at my lunch break, eating, when I decided to flame Pluto for his flame of Aquagirl. Unfortunately, I read your post just before and had to wince a number of times about your comments. You’re mostly right on target. In our defense, though, is that we don’t have another choice. One one hand we have the Republican who are using teachers as whipping boys (Cristie: “Democrats are pitting unions against teachers!” What? HUH!? The unions are trying to protect teachers! They’re the only defense we have!), and then Roy Barnes, and the Democrats start blaming us too!
The only reason the teachers are backing the Democrats is because they just want to whip us less. They stink too! We would love to get a candidate/party to talk truth. Look people, the problem is with you. There’s a reason poor people are poor: you make bad judgements! Rich people make bad judgements too! They just have more money and DON’T REPEAT THEIR STUPID DECISIONS!
Unfortunately, no politician speaks the truth. They just want to get elected and steal money for themselves (the Democrats) or steal money for themselves AND their rich friends (the Republicans). Show me an honest politician trying to make our county/state better and raise the standards for all our people, (Chambliss comes close enough — and I KNOW he did ugly, bad things to get elected, but he’s there now, and he IS working for the people of Georgia) and I’ll vote for him REGARDLESS OF PARTY. Until then, I’ll hold my nose and vote Democrat.
Now, my 15 minutes of lunch are up and I have to go back to work so you guys can all flame me. It doesn’t matter. I won’t be able to read this again until I get home around 10-11. You see I’m a teacher. and I work even when I’m not being paid. As opposed to politicians, I have a code of ethics I live by, and when I’m being paid to do a job, I don’t goof off on the clock.
Later, dudes.
alm
August 30th, 2012
12:33 pm
MiltonMan when did Decatur turn republican?
Flipped Class
August 30th, 2012
12:40 pm
@East Cobb Parent – you said this about the the flipped class “Teachers need to teach, period. Hard for me to respect a teacher that uses the flip model – go home watch a video and do the problems in class, ask about a specific problem but don’t ask me to expand or go in-depth to explain why a formula works. When teachers adopt this sort of philosophy they are part of the problem.”
If that is all your teacher is doing, or that is how your child explained it to you, or that is how you understand it, then one or more of you are very incorrect about the flipped class model. The teacher should be using time in class to talk about the things the students don’t understand. There should be relevant activities – labs, discussions, etc. The video is simply a way to deliver the lecture. That IS teaching, by most people’s definitions. The student can watch it over and over – you can’t do that with a regular lecture – perfect if you are absent, or didn’t understand the first time.
Yeah, I’m biased. I had huge success with the flip class implementation. My kids loved it, learned more, and were more engaged. I had fewer behavior problems, too. Sorry you can’t respect that.
Batgirl
August 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
@Jessica, you’re right. The government/politicians cannot mandate good parenting, but they could at least address it. Our country’s problems are more about the decline of society as a whole and less about the poor quality of the education system. However, if you’re going to blame someone, there are far fewer teachers than parents, so angering teachers is a better choice for a politician’s career than is angering parents.
@Milton Man, I don’t think NEA/GAE blindly endorsed Roy Barnes in 2010. I think they held their noses and endorsed him because all the other choices were so much worse.
@East Cobb Parent, there have been sorry teachers around forever, and although I can tell you without a second thought who the worst teachers are in my building, I truly believe that most teachers try much harder to do a good job than teachers did when I was in school back in the good old days.
Entitlement Society
August 30th, 2012
12:52 pm
HS Public Teacher wrote: Why don’t the republicans say, something like…. “We need parents to ensure that their child studies every night. We need parents to become involved with their child’s education and work with the teachers.” And, so on?????
________________________________________________________________________
Say it? Why does that need to be said? Perhaps because it is understood. It is a given. It’s like saying we need parents to feed their children. A ridiculously obvious statement. Why would you require one party to say that statement over another anyway? This is not about politics. This is about education.
Another comment
August 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
Condi Rice just showed she is an example of affirmative action gone wrong. Hillary Clinton has been by far the best Secretary of State we have had in well over 30 years if not forever. She also knew that she had to do a better job than any male had ever done, because all eyes would be one her.
Condo was the Bush token and continues to be the Bush token. She is now the biggest token member of all at August National, the one that makes no sense she lives and works in California. Who bets her membership initiation is free?
Inman Park Boy
August 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
If you’re waiting on parental action to improve schools, it’s going to be a long wait. And you know what? Most schools do a pretty darn good job with most students. The large majority of Americans have had a good education, they can read, do some high level math, and they understand our history and government. BUT, there will always be students (and parents) who don’t care about any of those things and you know what? It is their scores on the ITBS, the SAT-10, the ACT and the SAT that bring down the average. So yes, its the parents. But they by and large they don’t care.
Pluto
August 30th, 2012
1:49 pm
@ Old Physics Teacher … Before I entered the classroom “to make a difference” in the lives of our children, one of my careers had me working in the legislative arena where I got to know many politicians and bureaucrats of all persuasions. I don’t trust any of ‘em and they will all lie to your face to get elected, re-elected or just keep their jobs. So before you commit to one party over the other remember there is no loyalty other than to label and use you as a constituency group. If they offer support to an initiative or cause that is “the right thing to do” for most folks they look for payback. Be careful who you serve because they sure a hell don’t serve you.
Rickster
August 30th, 2012
2:07 pm
Teachers need a base salary, with incentives for performance that will reward those teachers that get the greatest result. There needs to be incredibly tight security during testing, since incentive pay will provide incentive to less scrupulous teachers to cheat in order to get the most pay.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
2:33 pm
Those same 1950’s republicans that were yelling and screaming last night were some of the same people yelling,screaming, cursing and Beating the many African Americans who were just trying to register to vote in Birmingham in 1964.
That same Woolworth CONDI spoke of last night. If she had entered with her parents many of those same Republicans in attendance would have beat she and her entire family to a BLODDY PULP just trying to enter that store.
I remember those same tactics right here in Atlanta as a Little BOY!
The Bridges of the Rich’s store, where the lighting of Atlanta’s Great Christmas Tree stood ATOP for many years. Were forbidden places for African Americans to stop or to have Lunch for any reason. If you did, you risked arrest and JAIL by the CITY OF ATLANTA POLICE DEPT.
The Fox Theater in Atlanta had an area at the top rear… Balcony. It was called the “CROW’s Nest” a place reserved seating especially for Atlanta’s dark skinned citizens.
Dr. Monica Henson
August 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
“You might not be able to control your circumstances but you could control your response to your circumstances.”
Sound advice, and not just for students seeking an education–but for those whose complaining posts turn the comments on this blog into a continual whinefest that lays blame on parents, kids, administrators, the state legislature, the Georgia Department of Education, the U.S. Department of Education, and pretty much anyone who doesn’t pay dues that help support the NEA’s political agenda, without offering reasoned arguments based on research and best practice.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
2:53 pm
Piedmont Park was another place forbidden to African Americans in Atlanta! You were only allowed to WALK through…no SITTING or use of the PARK for any reason. You were allowed into the Park on Friday’s and only allowed to enter at the 10th street entrance. The same place where Atlanta Celebrates yearly, the annual ending of the Peachtree Road Race. Imagine that!
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
2:58 pm
America better stop pandering to the bottom feeders and start pushing the best and brightest, otherwise the race to the bottom will result in our country becoming a third world mess. I do not care the race, religion, or ethnic origin of the next Steve Jobs, I just want to make sure there is a next Steve Jobs! For the record, Steve Jobs was an ethnic Arab.
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
Bernie – In the old days you speak of DeKalb County had the highest achieving schools in the state of Georgia. Now look at the mess….
Pluto
August 30th, 2012
3:03 pm
@ Bernie…Those same 1950’s republicans that were yelling and screaming last night were some of the same people yelling,screaming, cursing and Beating the many African Americans who were just trying to register to vote in Birmingham in 1964.
I believe that those whom you speak were Democrats. My how things have changed.
Entitlement Society
August 30th, 2012
3:04 pm
@ Dr. Henson – Right on! I completely agree. If you don’t like the system, either fix it or get out, but stop whining. In my case, we have to opt for the latter, as our children are in school now and the problems aren’t going to be fixed overnight (nor during their school years) no matter what level of fanatic volunteerism and involvement I have tried. Two parents can’t fix a broken school system like APS in order to confidently send their children there in hope of garnering a solid education. Been there, tried that.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:06 pm
Solutions @ 3:01 pm – You are right …at that time they were 100% WHITE! No African Americans attended or allowed. If any African American person were on ANY street in Dekalb County after 6pm you were subject to a SEVERE BEATING, ARREST, 30days in JAIL, and a very STIFF FINE!…..Ahhh The good ole DAYS!
That really did not change until the very late 1960’s too! Not very long ago at ALL!
When America was Pure,Christian and God Fearing…..
I remember WELL…..
katherine
August 30th, 2012
3:08 pm
Bernie – the people doing the oppressing and beating may have been Republican or Democrat – who knows? However, if you will review the history of that era, you may be surprised to learn that the Democrats had almost total control of the Southern states. So it’s a decent bet that the people you are referring to were Democrats, since that was the party in power.
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
3:10 pm
From the ajc.com – The top ten scoring schools on the ACT in Georgia:
Top ten schools in Georgia:
Fulton County, Chattahoochee High School, 25.2
Cobb County, George Walton Comp High School, 25.1
Fulton County, Riverwood High School, 25
Fulton County, Milton High School, 24.6
Fulton County, Northview High School , 24.6
Savannah-Chatham County, Savannah Arts Academy, 24.5
Cobb County, Alan C Pope High School, 24.3
Forsyth County, South Forsyth High School, 24.1
Cobb County, Lassiter High School, 24
Fayette County, Starrs Mill High School, 24
Metro District averages:
Atlanta Public Schools , 17.8
Cherokee County , 22
Clayton County , 17.3
Cobb County , 22.1
Decatur City Schools , 21.7
DeKalb County , 18.5
Fayette County , 22.5
Forsyth County , 23.1
Fulton County , 22.2
Gwinnett County , 22.1
Marietta City Schools , 21.7
National average , 21.1
State average , 20.6
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:10 pm
Pluto @ 3:03 pm – You too are also correct! at that time today’s Rebulicans called themselves DIXIECRATS!
A very lovely bunch of endearing and warm people, whom Condi loves so much! Just thinking of them and their actions really warms my heart and makes me want to run out and join them this very day.
Jessica
August 30th, 2012
3:11 pm
@Bernie, is that supposed to shock me? We have all seen how African Americans (in general) treat any of their own who a) get ahead based on merit, and b) advocate personal achievement and responsibility as the path to success. Instead of celebrating their accomplishments and carefully considering their ideas, their community responds with curses and hate. What does this teach your children?
What I don’t understand is WHY you are so loyal to a political ideology that works to keep black people poor, uneducated and dependent. Why are you attacking this woman for thinking that YOU should get to choose where YOUR children go to school? Why don’t you oppose the politicians who want to force you to send your kid to one specific school, no matter how horrible it is? Why don’t you stand up to teachers’ unions, who want to make sure that your kid’s teacher is never fired for doing a lousy job or rewarded for doing an excellent one? Your loyalty is misplaced, and your kids deserve better than that. All kids do.
shav
August 30th, 2012
3:16 pm
my mom was a substitute teacher for a while and I could not believe some of the sexual stuff that goes on in middle school, some of it during class… there is no discipline in our schools with plenty of blame to go around.
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
Entitlement Society – I have posted the top 10 scoring high schools in Georgia on the ACT for you, good luck in finding the right schools.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
I remember The Fox Theater. If you were African American you could never enter at that Grand and Beautiful Front entrance that still stands. You purchased your ticket after waiting of any white person who wanted a ticket. even if they came up after you.
You were not allowed to use any of the Restroom facilities. You had to hold it OR!
You had to bring and sneak in your own snacks and hope not to be caught!
Your purchased your ticket and go to the side street to the rear entrance that had a long stairwell that too still stands today. That led to the “Crow’s Nest” entrance and you had a option of the LAST TWO ROWS ONLY! forget seeing anything! but many were glad to have even that chance.
ahhhh! such lovely memories!
Another comment
August 30th, 2012
3:19 pm
I went to college will a former RNC Chair and DNC chair. The RNC chair was a big time Democrat from Penn. in college. Funny thing was in 1983 when ED could not secure a job working for a democrate from Penn. So he took a job working for a Republican Congressman. Ed is only a Republican because he needed a job. Every time I see him on one of the talking head shows I just want to puke. He is the same Ed that was friends with Tim of Tim and Tim was at the party celebrating their adoption of a black child, from DC Forster care. He was friends with all these gay and lesbians from college, the same people he wants to deny now. It makes my skin crawl.
Yet on the other hand I see how wonderfully my other classmate Mayor Mitch, Landrue has reacted in the face of another tragic storm . Yet bumble jindal who wasted money with his dirt berms that we’re worth list try’s to hog the media. Mitch is out in the trenches getting things done just being the Mitch I met freshman year.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:29 pm
Jessica @ 3:11 pm – Shock! Never! I am the one who is shocked and surprised to see the return of those same hateful policies return along of denying of the right to vote under the false guise of removing FRAUD!
Also the slow creep to back to segregation under the guise of charter schools, with limited seating…then slowly back to Full segregation with issuance of school vouchers. A plan and a trick to fool the white Liberal Intelligentsia with a plan to insure we go back to the separation of the RACES in the educational system in America.
These are old recycled games of the South…they are just putting a happy face on it with a little political correctness to make you, your neighbors and the rest of Georgia along with the Federal courts think otherwise. However the GOAL remains the same.
I must give hand to Today’s Republicans they have done a great JOB of getting these things done. Condi’s resounding endorsement further pushes the plan forward.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:39 pm
Jessica @ 3:11 pm – I would Love to have to ask those same questions to the Mayor of ATLANTA the Honorable Kasim Reed. Just this week Gov.Deal’s denial of the medicaid expansion.
The city of Atlanta has the highest concentration of Medicaid recipients. This population consist primarily of CHILDREN, minors if you will. Now we ALL heard from the Mayor continuously on the T-SPLOST issue. But nothing on the decision of denial of medicaid expansion. A service that goes directly to the healthcare of thousands of Atlanta’s children that go to school and home SICK with All of our children who are exposed to the very same illnesses. I TOO struggle with the same frustrations and questions as you and many here as well.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
3:42 pm
Jessica @ 3:11 pm – The other answer to your question. when you only have 2 parties and one is OUTRIGHT OFFENSIVE and hostile with political rhetoric and will say it to your face and act on that offensive behavior.
Which Political Party would you choose? Think about it! This group only represents
15% of the population. In layman’s terms…The POOCH IS SCREWED!
Denise McGill
August 30th, 2012
3:52 pm
The moment she opened her mouth and began speaking the first thing that came to mind is- why wasn’t she preaching this same speech to her boss/friend GW Bush when he established “No Child Left Behind? 16 years ago” Seems to me that this current speech is 16 years too late with irreparable damage- Has everyone forgotten that marvelous masterpiece and solution?
SGaDawgette
August 30th, 2012
3:53 pm
I have despaired of ever seeing meaningful education discussion on this blog. I suppose this is where we now are in this country, unable to discuss ANYTHING without dragging race or political affiliation into it and with even a modest degree of common courtesy. I am saddened and disgusted by much of the vitriol I continue to read on these blogs. Is this really where we are as a country?
Just A Teacher
August 30th, 2012
3:54 pm
I also believe that this speech is full of platitudes with very little substance. However, you need only look at the proposals being put out by Republicans throughout the country to see the contempt for public education which they hold. Paul Ryan’s home state was all over the news last year because of drastic cuts to teachers’ salaries which resulted in massive protests at the state capital and a failed recall vote of its governor. In our state, the Republican dominated legislature has cut funding so dramatically that many school systems are facing economic ruin even with shortened school years and elimination of teaching positions. All of this is happening in Georgia at the same time as those legislators promote creating an expensive new government agency to promote charter schools and have traveled around the state telling private school parents how to fudge their tax returns in order to receive free tuition to private schools.
I am not thrilled with the Democratic Party either, but I have paid attention to issues involving education and they seem much more committed to the educational community, both the teachers AND the students.
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
4:02 pm
Pluto: I hear you man! I worked retail for 20 years before i stepped in “to make a difference.” I used to be a business man. I used to vote Republican. I still wish Nixon was alive. I’d vote for him today. I care about Watergate; I do. That was a stupid mistake. Nevertheless, Nixon was a great leader. Johnson was… well… let’s just say a lot of problems we’re facing today are due directly to Lindon’s stupidity. But he meant well. Both men had visions for our nation; they both meant well.
The problem with the politicians today is they both play to their bases (read extremes there). Neither party has a vision for our nation. Both are venal and self-serving. Obama says one thing and then rolls over trying to get the Republicans to join in and gives away EVERYTHING and gets nothing in return, because their admitted objective is to make his a “one-term presidency.” On the other hand, the Republicans have the goal of taking care of the “job creators.” Well, the “job creators” don’t create jobs!! They just line their pockets with more money and get wealthier and wealthier. Frankly, their goals are good, but their actions do just the opposite of their goals. I can’t believe they don’t know that. The only option I have to believe is they don’t care about me and mine.
You’re right, the Democrats don’t either. Their avowed goals are excellent. They just don’t have the guts to do it. They want everyone to love them. I don’t think Pelosi is a dictatorial you-know-what. I think she’s a spineless wimp. They had a “mandate” to fix things when Obama went in. Tthey should have taken the bull (Republicans) by the horns AND FIXED THINGS. Or if they couldn’t, put the spotlight directly on the specific Republicans who were holding things up. Putting a spotlight on the “bad guys” gets them to run away from the light. They didn’t. They’re gutless wimps.
But what is my choice? For the Democrats, it’s wussy Obama with the wussy Democrats; “Let’s all learn to work together and sing kumbaya.” For the Republicans, it’s wussy Romney with the dangerously crazy republican House: What position do you want me to take to get your vote? And I’ll then vote to take care of the rich, and to heck with the middle class” I’ll still take Obama; of the two, he’s less dangerous.
Where’s Adlai Stevenson when you really need him?
DeKalb Teacher
August 30th, 2012
4:13 pm
I think the Republicans are trying to represent the tax payers. DeKalb millage rate is almost 24 mills. DeKalb admin is gorging on all that money. The teachers and children are left out in the cold. No amount of money is going to fix what ails DeKalb schools.
TwoWingsSameBird
August 30th, 2012
4:22 pm
The fact is, all I see and read in this comment section are people confused about what’s really going on. Do any of you actually think that the poor state of our nation’s education wasn’t planned? It’s a tool for oppression. Two parties, same machine. These people don’t care about our children, so stop fooling yourselves. Stop buying so much crap from all the brightly lit stores so you can afford to stay home and teach your kids or send them to a good school. The power the government has is only what we give it.
jarvis
August 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
Increase the stature of the profession? Make an education degree more difficult.
dc
August 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
I hope more teachers come on here and state things like “There are 6 causes for low test scores and teachers are not one of the causes”…..because if teachers can’t help students improve test scores, then why the heck do we pay for them? Please…..keep making points like that, and blaming parents and others, basically throwing your hands up in the air and giving up.
Then….maybe….finally, folks will see how our monolithic bureaucratic schools are failing both their students and the good teachers, and finally support alternatives that actually educate children, and help them be successful in life.
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
That bastion of left wing liberal thoughts, Harvard University, reports at least 125 out of 250 students in a class cheated via plagiarism on the final exam! Why is it always to left wing libs who lie, cheat and steal? Here is the link for those of you who demand sources: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-30/harvard-plagiarism-probe-under-way-for-about-125-students.html
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
What Ms. Rice misses is that issue goes way beyond the school doors. Until leaders like her step into the struggling communities that need strong leadership and hands-on intervention from those who can provide the tangible examples of how to move up, the schools will only be able to do so much. I wonder how many times she’s visited the poor neighborhoods of L.A., Chicago, NYC, or Atlanta and seen first hand the challlenges and issues that come into our school doors. Yes, the crisis in education is a threat to America. Now is the time for Ms. Rice and others to do more than promote the scare tactics and rhetoric; how about they get busy and get into the communities that show that crisis so starkly?
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
It’s easy to stand on a nicely appointed stage in a safe, supportive environment and spread fear and speak the words the crows so wants to hear. How much more challenging and yet more rewarding it is to be in the thick of it actually doing something about it. Yet we teachers who try are the ones taking the blame and yet still trying to fix what we can. I’m just about done hearing another talking head. It’s time for many like Ms. Rice to do something more than just stand in a nicely made suit and call names.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
SGaDawgette @ 3:53 pm – this is your America! as it is unvarnished. The subject matter, may make you a bit squeamish and even upset. As you well you should be when, One really takes a hard look at how we treat and talk too instead of talking with each other. These are the real issues that many of us face every day of our lives. Because it is not yours be grateful and try to have some compassion and empathy for others. try to make your community and the people around you better human beings. This all we can do, for we all are only here for a very short period of time. everything in the South is about RACE, this is the history of this state. It has not always been pretty or even nice…mostly inhumane and mean spirited. Unfair and callous in its execution of its laws and policies. Take what you have learned, if any today and try to make Georgia a better place of all of its citizens. We have never had that as a common goal for the many millions of its citizens since its very inception.
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
5:35 pm
dc:
You could help us out a whole lot by getting the Republican Legislature to stop requiring kids to go to school and to require the schools to throw out the kids with discipline problems. That way the only kids that would be coming to school would be the ones that want to learn. I’d be glad to be responsible for those kids’ learning. In point of fact, I don’t even require that. If you’d require our grades to approximate the end of course test score, I’d be glad to accept that. I’d expect these possibilities:
1) A kid passes my class with a grade between 80% – 100% and makes a grade on the EOCT pluss or minus 10% of that grade. I get a raise.
2) A kid fails my class with a grade below 70%, and fails the EOCT. I get a raise. I taught the material required. I used all the approved teaching techniques that really work, and the kid either chose not to learn or was incapable of learning. I did my job. He/she didn’t do their’s. That’s not my fault, right?
3) A kid fails my class and passes the EOCT. I get a pay decrease, right? Wait a minute!! The EOCT actually tests skills 2 grade-levels below. I actually taught the course and held the kid accountable and because the test was so easy, he slept through the course and still passed that crip test. Let’s talk this over, but if that’s what you want,I’ll make sure he passes anyway. That’s what you really want, right? OK, I’ll do better next year.
4) A kid passes my course and fails the EOCT. Fire my worthless rear end!He didn’t learn and I GAVE him/her an undeserved grade.
Would you be acceptable with this procedure? If you would, let’s get a group together and go picket the legislature!
Yeah, I thought not. Everybody wants all the kids to learn and it’s the teacher’s fault when they don’t.
Teachers can’t win when society wants us held accountable for things outside of our control. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BEING ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS. I have a huge problem when I’m being held accountable for things outside of my control. Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control. Heck, most of them are not even held accountable for things they do when they screw up (bankers, auto manufacturing BOSSES, and sleezy Wall Street brokers) .
Ahhhh, why do I keep coming back hereand beat my head against the wall?
bu2
August 30th, 2012
5:53 pm
@SGADawgette
You ought to look at the political boards if you think this is bad.
Education is not a Democratic or Republican issue.
Anonymous internet postings do allow for more insults that you would see in public. But Congress has lead the way. The Senate used to be respectful. That’s changed. President Obama has changed the presidency (hopefully just for his term in office). He talks about working with the other side and then criticizes their motives. I don’t know if he is just all politician or just too narcissistic to understand he doesn’t have all the answers and everyone who disagrees with him is not evil.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
6:07 pm
agree with dekalb teacher. education must be reformed and administration downsized. the taxpayer is broke. we have had too much splost and for too long. teachers should be rewarded but we don’t need 3 to 5 times the amount of administrators as we had 15 years ago and at 160 to 350k per year. in order to get all this under control there must be competition and therein lies the rub— the taxpayer can’t keep paying for the teachers to teach fewer pupils, administrators to keep pulling down salaries in excess of the governor’s salary, all the excess travel, meetings in vacation locales, etc, etc.. Sooner or later the merry-go-round has to stop—the taxpayer can not afford all of it. In order for kids to get the best education possible their parents should be able to choose and when they do the tax money should follow the child.
mark
August 30th, 2012
6:55 pm
My new pay cut is not helping my teaching one bit. You will not attract and retain effective teachers if you continue to cut our pay!! If you can’t afford me, I can’t afford you. One year to be vested and I am changing carreers.
BTY, it is a republicant issues, since they run this state, it is that party’s fault. They cut funding through tricking all of you that you pay too much! You get what you pay for folks!!
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
7:53 pm
The new super majority in the House and Senate will allow Georgia Republicans to change the State Constitution. Guess what goes out first? The free basic education will be eliminated, parents will have to pay to educate their own children, and not stick innocent property owners with that burden. Problem of poor school performance solved, next problem!
NWGA
August 30th, 2012
8:07 pm
What a waste of time. She didn’t say anything.
BEENTHERE
August 30th, 2012
8:10 pm
It is certainly entertaining to read comments written about education by folks who have never stepped in a classroom as an adult. Your lack of experience and knowledge shows. The true problems stem from students not understanding why they are there. Teachers spend an extraordinary amount of valuable time disciplining students. And until parents step up, take responsibility, and teach their children the value of education, this will not change. And test scores will continue to stagnate.
Reallyperplexed
August 30th, 2012
8:20 pm
Show me the money! To begin, define the study and show me the data with which verifies that money is not a common denominator to consider going into a profession and being retained. I am tired of hearing that educators don’t care about the money. Where are their halos? These people are struggling like everyone else. They work summers, continuoisly and tirelessly advance their educations, and for what? A society that does not place a high priority on education unless it guarantees a good paying job. So, why would this differ for one that goes into the field of education? Are you kidding? We not only care, but in this economy where salaries have been cut(Cobb County 3% overall) plus annual furlough days–Again, I reiterate, show me the money. Now, show me the data that because one is paid unfairly(one who holds a Masters degree should begin at 60k)that this will create a better teacher. Either one holds the passion for the profession or they do not–so, I suggest we weed out the heretics and pay those who give 100% Eduaction is a business, so treat educators with respect and honor the profession because without educators, from where would those people who have made billions have come?
Reallyperplexed
August 30th, 2012
8:23 pm
By the way, I am not an eduactor but I honor them because I place my three children’s lives in their hands every day,
claytondawg
August 30th, 2012
8:48 pm
Educating the masses worked many years ago, simply because the masses CARED about education. That is not the case at this time; and, based on this current society, mass education will continue to fail. Take the federal government out of the education business and give it to the state. Not funding a “Federal Department of Education” alone will help reduce the national debt. Let parents choose their own school/school system. A quagmire? Yes, it is. But, it’s a possible start to moving our eductional system forward and being utilized more effectively, thus creating a more powerful learning environment. In other words: just might work better than what we have now!!
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:00 pm
this thread was destined to be a train wreck from the start. and it lived up to all expectations.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:03 pm
most republicans aren’t for pay cuts for teachers—they want good teachers and are willing to pay them—they simply don’t want to pay the bloated administrations and the teachers who can’t perform— we can’t afford the teacher’s unions (aka associations), plus the administrators and their unions, etc. — we need the children educated— we don’t need them supervised by excess administration nor do we need them “semi-educated” by teachers who can’t produce. it is the taxpayers dollars not the dollars from parents that educate most of our children so the taxpayer has to begin to be respected first and foremost. If a private school or a charter school has a better business model then that is what we should use—-that includes things like parents going in and cutting grass, painting schools, etc like they do at a lot of private schools in order to make ends meet. ask your resident democrats/etc on this blog to grab hold of the lawnmower and see how much squealing you get. they simply are above the hard work it requires to succeed. it is sad to say but it is the truth.
Obzerver
August 30th, 2012
9:04 pm
As Governor Jeb Bush said tonight on the same subject … “You’re either for the teachers’ unions bosses, or you’re for the kids.”
This blog is run mainly as a platform for the unions and other supporters of the status quo.
Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:06 pm
Another Republican message on education, at the local level.
My TRS Retirement newsletter for Summer 2012 informs me Deal has just signed a bill that repeals by June 30, 2013 the law allowing TRS retirees to return to work after 12 months and still receive their pension. The original repeal bill put the date at 2016, but he changed it to 2013.
IMPORTANT TO KNOW for all such retirees or those about to retire. Call the TRS for details!!
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:10 pm
really perplexed, et al on this blog—most teachers/admin/etc work 3/4 of the year—figure in summer break, spring break, christmas break, holidays, etc. those that work during this time get paid extra.
when you calculate salaries for these people you must consider that they do not—repeat do not—work 12 months out of the year like most professions. no need to try and rebut this as those of us that do see these people relaxing, golfing, and enjoying all their time off. god bless the good teachers but if they want to become “millionaires and billionaires” then let them get an extra job or open a business in their off time —- it will not happen—they want and value their time off as well their semi-vacations for state meetings/conferences/etc.
Tech Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:12 pm
Really raise the bar for what it takes to be accepted into a teacher education program. Don’t allow it to be one of the majors you move to when you can’t do any other! This must be done on a nation-wide scale for it to work. This will cause a possible shortage of teachers at first, then salaries will go up, thus attracting more people to the profession. Maintain the high standards for admission to the programs and slowly, teaching will become a respected profession once again.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:18 pm
obviously red herring is well named, and lives the name by casting out several
truly, red has never taught, been in classroom other than as a student, or developed observational skills.
red, do you live in Fran Millar’s district? your last post is almost like reading one of his press releases
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
9:19 pm
Obzerver @ 9:04 pm – Jeb also used coded terms as “school choice” which is a dog
whistle for “school voucher”. Public Education dollars would then be siphoned off to Pastor BOB and his money changing friends. Also to all of the many other religious schools across the State. Schools where parents now pay ALL tuition cost out of pocket for the most part. I am sure many would love to have that State money to help supplement that expense as well. Slowly Public education would no longer exists and we will only be left with the few remain private institutions if they are able to keep up with ever growing cost and religious funded and based schools.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:20 pm
if you factor in vacation, christmas, holidays, and such
NO ONE sane works 12 months a year. what an idiotic statement
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:22 pm
Prof—amen to governor deal on that — not that i particularly cared to be forced to vote for him in order to keep Roy (teachers union) Barnes out of that job again. Neither candidate measured up in my opinion. Still teachers and state employees should not be allowed to retire at 60% to 90% of their salaries and then be rehired at or above their regular salary—- check out the problems that have been caused by this in california. if you want to work past 30 years (or your retirement) as a teacher then do so —BUT do so without drawing both your retirement and a “NEW” salary at the taxpayers expense. when you retire—then you retire—then you allow a recent college graduate to take your place (at a much lower cost to the taxpayer) and the cycle will continue. if you wish to not retire then you have that option as well but you will not draw two salaries off the taxpayer’s back….. have you ever worked in a private sector job and do you pay your “fair share” of taxes?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:22 pm
Red, I’m curious:
how much of your personal income do you spend a year (on average) to fill supply gaps at work
your employer can’t or won’t provide?
I averaged $150 a year, roughly, and by all accounts I got off easy.
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
9:24 pm
red herring,
Your screen name fits. Your comments are just that: a red herring and has been disproved over and over and over and over unto the end of time. Either you are totally clueless, or you do know and are trying to get a rise out of over-worked and grossly underpaid professionals.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:30 pm
bootney–you have helped make my point— educators have become an “elite” crowd that don’t work “year round”—everybody has some holidays but private businesses don’t have the luxury of the amount of “paid vacations” that educators have. a few educators work during the summer but get extra pay for that. many educators go to vacation spots for their meetings that are paid for at the taxpayer expense. still my problem doesn’t fall on the good teachers–it falls on those cheaters/poor teachers but even more so on the greatly increased salaries of public school administrators and their assistants/staffs…. how do justify having a county school supt. with 10 or so asst. supt/principals?? none of whom serve time in the classroom?
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
9:39 pm
Tech Prof,
That sounds good on the surface and would work if we had a true market economy with a supply/demand curve and a population of above-average population. Unfortunately, 1) You are assuming that the “bosses” or “business owners” would respond according to that model. Well the great majority of the bosses almost universally come from the Physical Education ranks and have very little understanding of anything outside their sports model of the world and it is almost impossible for a competent manager to “rise to the top.” In fact, a competent manager is removed almost immediately as he/she draws “fire.”
2) You are assuming the Schools of Education are staffed with professionals just like the schools of engineering, science and the liberal arts. That is sooooo not true. In fact, they are the cause of many of the problems in education.
3) You are assuming the general population of the USA is concerned with education. They are not. They are perfectly willing to look for scapegoats for what is wrong, and teachers make such great scapegoats. Everybody remembers the teachers that forced them to stretch their minds when they were in school. They hated them then, and are perfectly willing to take out their frustrations on us for their perceived misdeeds in that old time.
Maureen Downey
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
@Eyes, Never fail but to be amused by posters who, under multiple screen names and fake emails, attack people who use their real names and stand behind their comments. I think there is a word for that.
Maureen
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
old physics–obviously you haven’t worked a regular job nor have you created an additional business in your “spare” time. i am a retired professional that worked 12 months per year and created a side business that i still work half time in my retirement which means that now i only work 30 hours/week rather than 70 or so…. . i have family and others i know of that work in education that do not–i repeat do not work full time —(that is year round)—when they do go on trips for “training/educational” purposes they do so at the taxpayer’s expense–food/travel/hotel.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
@ red
please don’t take this the wrong way, but what the hell are you talking about?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:44 pm
oh, and in what universe are you talking about?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:47 pm
@ Red
a retired lady of the evening is a retired “professional”
try again.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:48 pm
oh red
did you do all that uphill, both ways, barefoot in the snow, after doing the chores and feedin’ the hogs?
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
9:48 pm
red herring: we have ZERO paid vacations in teaching. We are paid a contracted salary for 190 days, that is then divided by 12 and parceled out accordingly. When school is out, we do not receive compensation for that time. We are paid for the days we are in the building, and no more. That is as it should be, and just the same as any private sector salaried employee who isn’t paid by the hour or given overtime. If I worked a typical 250 or so days that an average person works, assuming two weeks of paid vacation, I would make quite a bit more than I do. In the old days, teachers were given their contracted salary in nine monthly amounts. That changed back in the 80’s when I began teaching, and for a while was still an option. Some states are still that way, but I think most have gone to twelve monthly checks. Either way we only get paid for, and our contracts spell out, 190 days of work in the school building.
Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:49 pm
@ red herring. Just some FYIs…The most that members of TRS (which include all public school teachers and staff) can make if they work for 30 years is 60% of the average of their 2 highest annual salaries. NO-ONE gets 90%! They can only be hired at the same salary they made during the last year they worked, and only performing the same job-function.
There are many teachers who retired after 30 years who were making about $60K at retirement…let’s see, that would be $36K in retirement…and in some districts such as DeKalb they weren’t permitted to join Social Security. I won’t even get into the question of the value of experience in teaching.
I’ve always had my reservations about college professors and administrators, and public school administrators with their high salaries, being permitted to work again after retirement for the reasons you note at 9:22 pm. But the public school teachers and staff seem to me to be in a different category.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:54 pm
@ Prof
I did know some people who retired at 80% after 40 years of service, but I think that loophole was closed. the current TRS rules make it pointless to keep working much after 34 years – unless you need the money.
most of the retirees at GPC I knew hung it up after 34 years, saying it was a money loser to keep working. what a lot of faculty did was to retire, sit out a year, then come back and teach a part time load.
I’ve never had a problem with double dipping, provided -and this is a big provided- there is a legit need for the services said person provides, and it can be got at a discount.
Tech Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:57 pm
Old Physics Teacher — I, sadly, also realize your #3 is true. I am wondering when we’ll wake up and understand that our world is facing us with many problems, natural and man made, that will require lots of well-educated people to solve. I disagree somewhat with your #2. Schools of education have some very bright and hardworking faculty, and some slackers too. Raise the bar like I said, and the slackers will be less eventually. Not sure how to solve your #1.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:57 pm
can’t speak for primary schools, but most college faculty teach year ’round -unless on approved release time to do research or advance their education.
Really amazed
August 30th, 2012
10:45 pm
k-12 education is in a crisis???? No, really?? Keep dumbing it down even more. In GA students are told NOT to take AP classes because this might jeoperdize their chances of receiving full HOPE. Take easier classes to maintain the HOPE. Take basic classes so you can make your schools NHS, honor roll etc. these are not true rewards. Heaven forbid we push our kids to be all that they can be by challenging themselves. If they don’t know failure by trying they will never be able to cope in the real world when they get out on their own. Remember, it’s not just getting to college, it’s being able to get through it by challenging yourself to be your very best. What happened to parents telling their children they can be anything if they are willing to work hard. These are true rewards. I am sorry but I totally agree with Condi!
Truth in Moderation
August 31st, 2012
12:48 am
What crisis?
Pre-K 4 entertainment in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsAzI4Jdsj0
Pre-K 4 entertainment in another country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuYi2Vhgjo
Lee
August 31st, 2012
1:54 am
Crisis? What crisis?
Oh wait, here it is:
“And we need to give parents greater choice – particularly poor parents whose kids – most often minorities — are trapped in failing neighborhood schools. This is the civil rights struggle of our day.”
Translation:
Sixty years of politically correct indoctrination and manipulations have failed to close the so-called black/white “achievement gap”. So sayeth Queen Condi, the poster child for affirmative action political hacks.
If Condi really wanted to make a difference in the black community and improve those neighborhood schools, she should focus her attention on the 75% illegitimacy rate of black children. The black family is in shambles and the children of those black couplings get dumped on the schools in a vain attempt to house break them before they hit the penal system.
More Republican Propoganda
August 31st, 2012
6:37 am
Really now what makes her an expert. How many kids does she have?
Entitlement Society
August 31st, 2012
7:38 am
@Old Physics Teacher wrote: “Teachers can’t win when society wants us held accountable for things outside of our control. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BEING ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS. I have a huge problem when I’m being held accountable for things outside of my control. Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control.”
What a broad stroke of the pen you use and how completely incorrect! Teachers on this blog blast all non-teachers for acting like they know about the education world, but you now have just stepped into a big one. “Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control.” Absolutely untrue. How many times have I stepped into a new position only to inherit the problems of my predecessor? Those problems are not “his,” they are now “mine.” Not my fault, but it’s my job, so I’ll deal with the consequences. Budgets are cut from the top down. I didn’t choose to cut the operating budget by 15%, but now I have to explain salary cuts to my division’s employees, so yes, I’m accountable to them and it’s my problem. I could go on and on… Get the point? Your statement couldn’t be more laughable or off-base.
taco taco
August 31st, 2012
8:24 am
HAHAHAHA honest politicians
William Casey
August 31st, 2012
8:54 am
@Entitlement: would workers at an auto plant be expected to manufacture a good car out of cardboard? Of course not. This “everyone must go to college” mentality has totally changed the environment of the public schools since I began teaching in 1975. We expect our schools to “level” our society. That won’t happen. In a rational world, if given cardboard, we make useful cardboard boxes. We do not vainly attempt to make Mercedes Benzs. The accountability you describe in business is not what educators are facing. I don’t like the business model of education but, if you insist upon it, my analogy is the correct one.
Entitlement Society
August 31st, 2012
9:25 am
@William Casey – I was merely pointing out that Old Physics Teacher was talking out of turn. S/he stated that “Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control” which is completely false. I never argued one way or another about any model of education.
bootney farnsworth
August 31st, 2012
11:02 am
@ William
not only does the everyone must go to college water down the value of college, it devalues the skilled trades as well. one of the reasons it is becoming so hard for blue collar labor to make a solid living is its being viewed as something anyone could do. if it were so hard, they’d teach it in college, right?
which is why Tech schools have had to take the stupid and expensive step of renaming themselves Tech colleges.
Prof
August 31st, 2012
11:10 am
Sorry—didn’t mean to hijack things at 9:39 pm yesterday, but I thought that TRS members should know about this pronto. I should have added to redweather that such members were only allowed to work part-time up to 49% after retirement. And bootney,at 9:54 pm, same situation at my school…but I’m thinking about the effect of this repeal on public school teachers AND their schools, for substitute teachers generally come from the ranks of retirees in the field.
More Republican Propoganda
September 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
typical republican – how many kids does she have to even consider herself an expert?
Luv2Teach
September 2nd, 2012
9:53 pm
Like many teachers, I was disheartened by Condi’s comments placing the blame for our failing education system on teachers. It’s not just the teachers. Our education system is failing because we teach to breadth not depth. How can we help our students understand concepts when curriculum pacing guides move at the speed of light or when we require every student be on grade level even if they can’t read at grade level? Why force every kid into a “college” prep curriculum when he/she may not have either the desire or aptitude to attend a four year college? I’ve taught both middle school and high school. As one of my students said “If you expect me to learn something, then give me longer than three days to do it.” Students themselves have some wonderful ideas about how to improve our education system. Most of them advocate learning a general curriculum through 10th grade and then letting them pursue a track that interests them. I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, the same people who have run the system into the ground are still in charge of “changing” it. I’d love to teach at a progressive model that actually considers what the kids need!