Condoleezza Rice on education last night: Crisis in K-12 education is threat to America
Condoleezza Rice said the crisis in education was a "grave threat to who we are." (Harry E. Walker/MCT)
A few of you asked that we discuss Condoleezza Rice’s education comments from her speech last night at the Republican National Convention.
Overall, her comments on education were the standard stuff: We need better teachers, higher standards and greater choice.
Since Rice’s speech focused on all the issues in this election with a wide-angle lens, she didn’t go deep on how to achieve those goals. And those goals are not as straightforward as they sound.
For example, the research suggests that pay alone will not entice the brightest college students to consider teaching; we also need to raise the stature of the profession.
And the question around standards, as always, is who sets the standards? We are now following standards set by a national group of state leaders, of which former Gov. Sonny Perdue was a co-chair.
Rice mentioned “greater choice” without mention of either charter schools or vouchers.
Here is the part of her speech where she addressed education:
We have been successful too because Americans have known that one’s status at birth was not a permanent station in life. You might not be able to control your circumstances but you could control your response to your circumstances. And your greatest ally in doing so was a quality education.
Let me ask you, though, today, when I can look at your zip code and can tell whether you are going to get a good education – can I really say that it doesn’t matter where you came from – it matters where you are going. The crisis in K-12 education is a grave threat to who we are.
My mom was a teacher – I have the greatest respect for the profession – we need great teachers – not poor or mediocre ones. We need to have high standards for our students – self-esteem comes from achievement not from lax standards and false praise. And we need to give parents greater choice – particularly poor parents whose kids – most often minorities — are trapped in failing neighborhood schools. This is the civil rights struggle of our day.
If we do anything less, we will condemn generations to joblessness, hopelessness and dependence on the government dole. To do anything less is to endanger our global economic competitiveness. To do anything less is to tear apart the fabric of who we are and cement a turn toward grievance and entitlement.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
101 comments Add your comment
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
That bastion of left wing liberal thoughts, Harvard University, reports at least 125 out of 250 students in a class cheated via plagiarism on the final exam! Why is it always to left wing libs who lie, cheat and steal? Here is the link for those of you who demand sources: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-30/harvard-plagiarism-probe-under-way-for-about-125-students.html
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
What Ms. Rice misses is that issue goes way beyond the school doors. Until leaders like her step into the struggling communities that need strong leadership and hands-on intervention from those who can provide the tangible examples of how to move up, the schools will only be able to do so much. I wonder how many times she’s visited the poor neighborhoods of L.A., Chicago, NYC, or Atlanta and seen first hand the challlenges and issues that come into our school doors. Yes, the crisis in education is a threat to America. Now is the time for Ms. Rice and others to do more than promote the scare tactics and rhetoric; how about they get busy and get into the communities that show that crisis so starkly?
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
It’s easy to stand on a nicely appointed stage in a safe, supportive environment and spread fear and speak the words the crows so wants to hear. How much more challenging and yet more rewarding it is to be in the thick of it actually doing something about it. Yet we teachers who try are the ones taking the blame and yet still trying to fix what we can. I’m just about done hearing another talking head. It’s time for many like Ms. Rice to do something more than just stand in a nicely made suit and call names.
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
SGaDawgette @ 3:53 pm – this is your America! as it is unvarnished. The subject matter, may make you a bit squeamish and even upset. As you well you should be when, One really takes a hard look at how we treat and talk too instead of talking with each other. These are the real issues that many of us face every day of our lives. Because it is not yours be grateful and try to have some compassion and empathy for others. try to make your community and the people around you better human beings. This all we can do, for we all are only here for a very short period of time. everything in the South is about RACE, this is the history of this state. It has not always been pretty or even nice…mostly inhumane and mean spirited. Unfair and callous in its execution of its laws and policies. Take what you have learned, if any today and try to make Georgia a better place of all of its citizens. We have never had that as a common goal for the many millions of its citizens since its very inception.
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
5:35 pm
dc:
You could help us out a whole lot by getting the Republican Legislature to stop requiring kids to go to school and to require the schools to throw out the kids with discipline problems. That way the only kids that would be coming to school would be the ones that want to learn. I’d be glad to be responsible for those kids’ learning. In point of fact, I don’t even require that. If you’d require our grades to approximate the end of course test score, I’d be glad to accept that. I’d expect these possibilities:
1) A kid passes my class with a grade between 80% – 100% and makes a grade on the EOCT pluss or minus 10% of that grade. I get a raise.
2) A kid fails my class with a grade below 70%, and fails the EOCT. I get a raise. I taught the material required. I used all the approved teaching techniques that really work, and the kid either chose not to learn or was incapable of learning. I did my job. He/she didn’t do their’s. That’s not my fault, right?
3) A kid fails my class and passes the EOCT. I get a pay decrease, right? Wait a minute!! The EOCT actually tests skills 2 grade-levels below. I actually taught the course and held the kid accountable and because the test was so easy, he slept through the course and still passed that crip test. Let’s talk this over, but if that’s what you want,I’ll make sure he passes anyway. That’s what you really want, right? OK, I’ll do better next year.
4) A kid passes my course and fails the EOCT. Fire my worthless rear end!He didn’t learn and I GAVE him/her an undeserved grade.
Would you be acceptable with this procedure? If you would, let’s get a group together and go picket the legislature!
Yeah, I thought not. Everybody wants all the kids to learn and it’s the teacher’s fault when they don’t.
Teachers can’t win when society wants us held accountable for things outside of our control. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BEING ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS. I have a huge problem when I’m being held accountable for things outside of my control. Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control. Heck, most of them are not even held accountable for things they do when they screw up (bankers, auto manufacturing BOSSES, and sleezy Wall Street brokers) .
Ahhhh, why do I keep coming back hereand beat my head against the wall?
bu2
August 30th, 2012
5:53 pm
@SGADawgette
You ought to look at the political boards if you think this is bad.
Education is not a Democratic or Republican issue.
Anonymous internet postings do allow for more insults that you would see in public. But Congress has lead the way. The Senate used to be respectful. That’s changed. President Obama has changed the presidency (hopefully just for his term in office). He talks about working with the other side and then criticizes their motives. I don’t know if he is just all politician or just too narcissistic to understand he doesn’t have all the answers and everyone who disagrees with him is not evil.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
6:07 pm
agree with dekalb teacher. education must be reformed and administration downsized. the taxpayer is broke. we have had too much splost and for too long. teachers should be rewarded but we don’t need 3 to 5 times the amount of administrators as we had 15 years ago and at 160 to 350k per year. in order to get all this under control there must be competition and therein lies the rub— the taxpayer can’t keep paying for the teachers to teach fewer pupils, administrators to keep pulling down salaries in excess of the governor’s salary, all the excess travel, meetings in vacation locales, etc, etc.. Sooner or later the merry-go-round has to stop—the taxpayer can not afford all of it. In order for kids to get the best education possible their parents should be able to choose and when they do the tax money should follow the child.
mark
August 30th, 2012
6:55 pm
My new pay cut is not helping my teaching one bit. You will not attract and retain effective teachers if you continue to cut our pay!! If you can’t afford me, I can’t afford you. One year to be vested and I am changing carreers.
BTY, it is a republicant issues, since they run this state, it is that party’s fault. They cut funding through tricking all of you that you pay too much! You get what you pay for folks!!
Solutions
August 30th, 2012
7:53 pm
The new super majority in the House and Senate will allow Georgia Republicans to change the State Constitution. Guess what goes out first? The free basic education will be eliminated, parents will have to pay to educate their own children, and not stick innocent property owners with that burden. Problem of poor school performance solved, next problem!
NWGA
August 30th, 2012
8:07 pm
What a waste of time. She didn’t say anything.
BEENTHERE
August 30th, 2012
8:10 pm
It is certainly entertaining to read comments written about education by folks who have never stepped in a classroom as an adult. Your lack of experience and knowledge shows. The true problems stem from students not understanding why they are there. Teachers spend an extraordinary amount of valuable time disciplining students. And until parents step up, take responsibility, and teach their children the value of education, this will not change. And test scores will continue to stagnate.
Reallyperplexed
August 30th, 2012
8:20 pm
Show me the money! To begin, define the study and show me the data with which verifies that money is not a common denominator to consider going into a profession and being retained. I am tired of hearing that educators don’t care about the money. Where are their halos? These people are struggling like everyone else. They work summers, continuoisly and tirelessly advance their educations, and for what? A society that does not place a high priority on education unless it guarantees a good paying job. So, why would this differ for one that goes into the field of education? Are you kidding? We not only care, but in this economy where salaries have been cut(Cobb County 3% overall) plus annual furlough days–Again, I reiterate, show me the money. Now, show me the data that because one is paid unfairly(one who holds a Masters degree should begin at 60k)that this will create a better teacher. Either one holds the passion for the profession or they do not–so, I suggest we weed out the heretics and pay those who give 100% Eduaction is a business, so treat educators with respect and honor the profession because without educators, from where would those people who have made billions have come?
Reallyperplexed
August 30th, 2012
8:23 pm
By the way, I am not an eduactor but I honor them because I place my three children’s lives in their hands every day,
claytondawg
August 30th, 2012
8:48 pm
Educating the masses worked many years ago, simply because the masses CARED about education. That is not the case at this time; and, based on this current society, mass education will continue to fail. Take the federal government out of the education business and give it to the state. Not funding a “Federal Department of Education” alone will help reduce the national debt. Let parents choose their own school/school system. A quagmire? Yes, it is. But, it’s a possible start to moving our eductional system forward and being utilized more effectively, thus creating a more powerful learning environment. In other words: just might work better than what we have now!!
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:00 pm
this thread was destined to be a train wreck from the start. and it lived up to all expectations.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:03 pm
most republicans aren’t for pay cuts for teachers—they want good teachers and are willing to pay them—they simply don’t want to pay the bloated administrations and the teachers who can’t perform— we can’t afford the teacher’s unions (aka associations), plus the administrators and their unions, etc. — we need the children educated— we don’t need them supervised by excess administration nor do we need them “semi-educated” by teachers who can’t produce. it is the taxpayers dollars not the dollars from parents that educate most of our children so the taxpayer has to begin to be respected first and foremost. If a private school or a charter school has a better business model then that is what we should use—-that includes things like parents going in and cutting grass, painting schools, etc like they do at a lot of private schools in order to make ends meet. ask your resident democrats/etc on this blog to grab hold of the lawnmower and see how much squealing you get. they simply are above the hard work it requires to succeed. it is sad to say but it is the truth.
Obzerver
August 30th, 2012
9:04 pm
As Governor Jeb Bush said tonight on the same subject … “You’re either for the teachers’ unions bosses, or you’re for the kids.”
This blog is run mainly as a platform for the unions and other supporters of the status quo.
Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:06 pm
Another Republican message on education, at the local level.
My TRS Retirement newsletter for Summer 2012 informs me Deal has just signed a bill that repeals by June 30, 2013 the law allowing TRS retirees to return to work after 12 months and still receive their pension. The original repeal bill put the date at 2016, but he changed it to 2013.
IMPORTANT TO KNOW for all such retirees or those about to retire. Call the TRS for details!!
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:10 pm
really perplexed, et al on this blog—most teachers/admin/etc work 3/4 of the year—figure in summer break, spring break, christmas break, holidays, etc. those that work during this time get paid extra.
when you calculate salaries for these people you must consider that they do not—repeat do not—work 12 months out of the year like most professions. no need to try and rebut this as those of us that do see these people relaxing, golfing, and enjoying all their time off. god bless the good teachers but if they want to become “millionaires and billionaires” then let them get an extra job or open a business in their off time —- it will not happen—they want and value their time off as well their semi-vacations for state meetings/conferences/etc.
Tech Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:12 pm
Really raise the bar for what it takes to be accepted into a teacher education program. Don’t allow it to be one of the majors you move to when you can’t do any other! This must be done on a nation-wide scale for it to work. This will cause a possible shortage of teachers at first, then salaries will go up, thus attracting more people to the profession. Maintain the high standards for admission to the programs and slowly, teaching will become a respected profession once again.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:18 pm
obviously red herring is well named, and lives the name by casting out several
truly, red has never taught, been in classroom other than as a student, or developed observational skills.
red, do you live in Fran Millar’s district? your last post is almost like reading one of his press releases
Bernie
August 30th, 2012
9:19 pm
Obzerver @ 9:04 pm – Jeb also used coded terms as “school choice” which is a dog
whistle for “school voucher”. Public Education dollars would then be siphoned off to Pastor BOB and his money changing friends. Also to all of the many other religious schools across the State. Schools where parents now pay ALL tuition cost out of pocket for the most part. I am sure many would love to have that State money to help supplement that expense as well. Slowly Public education would no longer exists and we will only be left with the few remain private institutions if they are able to keep up with ever growing cost and religious funded and based schools.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:20 pm
if you factor in vacation, christmas, holidays, and such
NO ONE sane works 12 months a year. what an idiotic statement
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:22 pm
Prof—amen to governor deal on that — not that i particularly cared to be forced to vote for him in order to keep Roy (teachers union) Barnes out of that job again. Neither candidate measured up in my opinion. Still teachers and state employees should not be allowed to retire at 60% to 90% of their salaries and then be rehired at or above their regular salary—- check out the problems that have been caused by this in california. if you want to work past 30 years (or your retirement) as a teacher then do so —BUT do so without drawing both your retirement and a “NEW” salary at the taxpayers expense. when you retire—then you retire—then you allow a recent college graduate to take your place (at a much lower cost to the taxpayer) and the cycle will continue. if you wish to not retire then you have that option as well but you will not draw two salaries off the taxpayer’s back….. have you ever worked in a private sector job and do you pay your “fair share” of taxes?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:22 pm
Red, I’m curious:
how much of your personal income do you spend a year (on average) to fill supply gaps at work
your employer can’t or won’t provide?
I averaged $150 a year, roughly, and by all accounts I got off easy.
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
9:24 pm
red herring,
Your screen name fits. Your comments are just that: a red herring and has been disproved over and over and over and over unto the end of time. Either you are totally clueless, or you do know and are trying to get a rise out of over-worked and grossly underpaid professionals.
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:30 pm
bootney–you have helped make my point— educators have become an “elite” crowd that don’t work “year round”—everybody has some holidays but private businesses don’t have the luxury of the amount of “paid vacations” that educators have. a few educators work during the summer but get extra pay for that. many educators go to vacation spots for their meetings that are paid for at the taxpayer expense. still my problem doesn’t fall on the good teachers–it falls on those cheaters/poor teachers but even more so on the greatly increased salaries of public school administrators and their assistants/staffs…. how do justify having a county school supt. with 10 or so asst. supt/principals?? none of whom serve time in the classroom?
Old Physics Teacher
August 30th, 2012
9:39 pm
Tech Prof,
That sounds good on the surface and would work if we had a true market economy with a supply/demand curve and a population of above-average population. Unfortunately, 1) You are assuming that the “bosses” or “business owners” would respond according to that model. Well the great majority of the bosses almost universally come from the Physical Education ranks and have very little understanding of anything outside their sports model of the world and it is almost impossible for a competent manager to “rise to the top.” In fact, a competent manager is removed almost immediately as he/she draws “fire.”
2) You are assuming the Schools of Education are staffed with professionals just like the schools of engineering, science and the liberal arts. That is sooooo not true. In fact, they are the cause of many of the problems in education.
3) You are assuming the general population of the USA is concerned with education. They are not. They are perfectly willing to look for scapegoats for what is wrong, and teachers make such great scapegoats. Everybody remembers the teachers that forced them to stretch their minds when they were in school. They hated them then, and are perfectly willing to take out their frustrations on us for their perceived misdeeds in that old time.
Maureen Downey
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
@Eyes, Never fail but to be amused by posters who, under multiple screen names and fake emails, attack people who use their real names and stand behind their comments. I think there is a word for that.
Maureen
red herring
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
old physics–obviously you haven’t worked a regular job nor have you created an additional business in your “spare” time. i am a retired professional that worked 12 months per year and created a side business that i still work half time in my retirement which means that now i only work 30 hours/week rather than 70 or so…. . i have family and others i know of that work in education that do not–i repeat do not work full time —(that is year round)—when they do go on trips for “training/educational” purposes they do so at the taxpayer’s expense–food/travel/hotel.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
@ red
please don’t take this the wrong way, but what the hell are you talking about?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:44 pm
oh, and in what universe are you talking about?
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:47 pm
@ Red
a retired lady of the evening is a retired “professional”
try again.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:48 pm
oh red
did you do all that uphill, both ways, barefoot in the snow, after doing the chores and feedin’ the hogs?
Ron F.
August 30th, 2012
9:48 pm
red herring: we have ZERO paid vacations in teaching. We are paid a contracted salary for 190 days, that is then divided by 12 and parceled out accordingly. When school is out, we do not receive compensation for that time. We are paid for the days we are in the building, and no more. That is as it should be, and just the same as any private sector salaried employee who isn’t paid by the hour or given overtime. If I worked a typical 250 or so days that an average person works, assuming two weeks of paid vacation, I would make quite a bit more than I do. In the old days, teachers were given their contracted salary in nine monthly amounts. That changed back in the 80’s when I began teaching, and for a while was still an option. Some states are still that way, but I think most have gone to twelve monthly checks. Either way we only get paid for, and our contracts spell out, 190 days of work in the school building.
Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:49 pm
@ red herring. Just some FYIs…The most that members of TRS (which include all public school teachers and staff) can make if they work for 30 years is 60% of the average of their 2 highest annual salaries. NO-ONE gets 90%! They can only be hired at the same salary they made during the last year they worked, and only performing the same job-function.
There are many teachers who retired after 30 years who were making about $60K at retirement…let’s see, that would be $36K in retirement…and in some districts such as DeKalb they weren’t permitted to join Social Security. I won’t even get into the question of the value of experience in teaching.
I’ve always had my reservations about college professors and administrators, and public school administrators with their high salaries, being permitted to work again after retirement for the reasons you note at 9:22 pm. But the public school teachers and staff seem to me to be in a different category.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:54 pm
@ Prof
I did know some people who retired at 80% after 40 years of service, but I think that loophole was closed. the current TRS rules make it pointless to keep working much after 34 years – unless you need the money.
most of the retirees at GPC I knew hung it up after 34 years, saying it was a money loser to keep working. what a lot of faculty did was to retire, sit out a year, then come back and teach a part time load.
I’ve never had a problem with double dipping, provided -and this is a big provided- there is a legit need for the services said person provides, and it can be got at a discount.
Tech Prof
August 30th, 2012
9:57 pm
Old Physics Teacher — I, sadly, also realize your #3 is true. I am wondering when we’ll wake up and understand that our world is facing us with many problems, natural and man made, that will require lots of well-educated people to solve. I disagree somewhat with your #2. Schools of education have some very bright and hardworking faculty, and some slackers too. Raise the bar like I said, and the slackers will be less eventually. Not sure how to solve your #1.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2012
9:57 pm
can’t speak for primary schools, but most college faculty teach year ’round -unless on approved release time to do research or advance their education.
Really amazed
August 30th, 2012
10:45 pm
k-12 education is in a crisis???? No, really?? Keep dumbing it down even more. In GA students are told NOT to take AP classes because this might jeoperdize their chances of receiving full HOPE. Take easier classes to maintain the HOPE. Take basic classes so you can make your schools NHS, honor roll etc. these are not true rewards. Heaven forbid we push our kids to be all that they can be by challenging themselves. If they don’t know failure by trying they will never be able to cope in the real world when they get out on their own. Remember, it’s not just getting to college, it’s being able to get through it by challenging yourself to be your very best. What happened to parents telling their children they can be anything if they are willing to work hard. These are true rewards. I am sorry but I totally agree with Condi!
Truth in Moderation
August 31st, 2012
12:48 am
What crisis?
Pre-K 4 entertainment in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsAzI4Jdsj0
Pre-K 4 entertainment in another country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omuYi2Vhgjo
Lee
August 31st, 2012
1:54 am
Crisis? What crisis?
Oh wait, here it is:
“And we need to give parents greater choice – particularly poor parents whose kids – most often minorities — are trapped in failing neighborhood schools. This is the civil rights struggle of our day.”
Translation:
Sixty years of politically correct indoctrination and manipulations have failed to close the so-called black/white “achievement gap”. So sayeth Queen Condi, the poster child for affirmative action political hacks.
If Condi really wanted to make a difference in the black community and improve those neighborhood schools, she should focus her attention on the 75% illegitimacy rate of black children. The black family is in shambles and the children of those black couplings get dumped on the schools in a vain attempt to house break them before they hit the penal system.
More Republican Propoganda
August 31st, 2012
6:37 am
Really now what makes her an expert. How many kids does she have?
Entitlement Society
August 31st, 2012
7:38 am
@Old Physics Teacher wrote: “Teachers can’t win when society wants us held accountable for things outside of our control. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BEING ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS. I have a huge problem when I’m being held accountable for things outside of my control. Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control.”
What a broad stroke of the pen you use and how completely incorrect! Teachers on this blog blast all non-teachers for acting like they know about the education world, but you now have just stepped into a big one. “Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control.” Absolutely untrue. How many times have I stepped into a new position only to inherit the problems of my predecessor? Those problems are not “his,” they are now “mine.” Not my fault, but it’s my job, so I’ll deal with the consequences. Budgets are cut from the top down. I didn’t choose to cut the operating budget by 15%, but now I have to explain salary cuts to my division’s employees, so yes, I’m accountable to them and it’s my problem. I could go on and on… Get the point? Your statement couldn’t be more laughable or off-base.
taco taco
August 31st, 2012
8:24 am
HAHAHAHA honest politicians
William Casey
August 31st, 2012
8:54 am
@Entitlement: would workers at an auto plant be expected to manufacture a good car out of cardboard? Of course not. This “everyone must go to college” mentality has totally changed the environment of the public schools since I began teaching in 1975. We expect our schools to “level” our society. That won’t happen. In a rational world, if given cardboard, we make useful cardboard boxes. We do not vainly attempt to make Mercedes Benzs. The accountability you describe in business is not what educators are facing. I don’t like the business model of education but, if you insist upon it, my analogy is the correct one.
Entitlement Society
August 31st, 2012
9:25 am
@William Casey – I was merely pointing out that Old Physics Teacher was talking out of turn. S/he stated that “Not a single businessman is held accountable for things outside of their control” which is completely false. I never argued one way or another about any model of education.
bootney farnsworth
August 31st, 2012
11:02 am
@ William
not only does the everyone must go to college water down the value of college, it devalues the skilled trades as well. one of the reasons it is becoming so hard for blue collar labor to make a solid living is its being viewed as something anyone could do. if it were so hard, they’d teach it in college, right?
which is why Tech schools have had to take the stupid and expensive step of renaming themselves Tech colleges.
Prof
August 31st, 2012
11:10 am
Sorry—didn’t mean to hijack things at 9:39 pm yesterday, but I thought that TRS members should know about this pronto. I should have added to redweather that such members were only allowed to work part-time up to 49% after retirement. And bootney,at 9:54 pm, same situation at my school…but I’m thinking about the effect of this repeal on public school teachers AND their schools, for substitute teachers generally come from the ranks of retirees in the field.
More Republican Propoganda
September 2nd, 2012
9:27 am
typical republican – how many kids does she have to even consider herself an expert?