War of words escalates in charter school amendment fray between Barge and GOP leadership
There is a lot of back and forth on the announcement earlier in the week by Georgia school chief John Barge that he opposes the GOP-scripted charter schools amendment, starting with an email exchange that I had Wednesday with House Majority Leader Edward Lindsey.
After his strong public rebuke of John Barge, I asked Lindsey this question in an email:
Rep. Lindsey,
Wondering if you have any second thoughts on your initial response to John Barge?
I plan on writing about this escalating battle of words for the Monday education page. One of my points on criticisms that Barge changed his position: It happens all the time in the Legislature, even to the point of folks changing parties. Candidate Deal himself changed his mind on Race to the Top — in a single day. In the morning, he said he would reject the grant if we won and, later that day, he changed his position.
(I was told that a call from Gov. Perdue was a key factor in Candidate Deal quickly changing his mind on that issue.) In this case, Barge says he is not bowing to political pressure, but to the reality of school funding and the consequences to the 1.6 million Georgia children in public schools.
I could list you a dozen changes of heart by your colleagues that did not result in such strong rebukes. Is that a legitimate criticism given that Barge did not see the financial straits of DOE until he got into the job?
Lindsey’s response to me:
Let’s first start off by placing our respective cards on the table. I was a co-sponsor of the Charter School Constitutional Amendment. As one of your avid readers, I know that you have had deep reservations about the merits of charter schools in general and this measure in particular. Therefore, it should not be surprising that I am dismayed by Superintendent Barge’s 180 % about face and you are heartened by it and wish to justify it.
That said, this is not a situation where policymakers simply disagree. My blunt rebuke and the Governor’s comments were justified and necessary to set the record straight in this situation.
Superintendent Barge was not an education novice who campaigned on an issue he did not fully understand when he ran in 2010. He is an experienced educator who was well versed on the history of the charter school issue and fully understood the arguments for and against — most of which being the same arguments we are hearing today.
Furthermore, this issue came to a boil again shortly after the superintendent took office with the Supreme Court decision in the spring of 2011 striking down much of HB 881. In response, those of us in the legislature and the executive branch worked closely with both advocates and critics of state funded charter schools for a year to answer concerns and fashion a coalition to pass the constitutional amendment in the legislature.
As part of that effort, we worked extensively throughout the process with representatives from Superintendent Barge’s Department of Education for information and guidance. Throughout this long drawn out process, Superintendent Barge never raised opposition to the proposals, voiced fiscal concerns, or otherwise indicated a change of heart.
Therefore, given Superintendent Barge’s extensive history in education before he ran, his documented “strong” support of state charter schools in the 2010 campaign, and his conduct on this issue since his election to the present, my rebuke and the Governor’s more measured comments to him were a well needed clearing of the air.
In this continuing war of words, here is a later email exchange between Barge and Lindsey.
This is how Barge responded to Lindsey’s first statement, the one in which the House leader questioned whether Barge was lying during the campaign or now on how he felt about charter schools:
Dear Rep. Lindsey,
Thank you for your comments on my position on the charter schools amendment. As the state’s top education official, I felt it was important stand up for the 1.6 million students and 111,000 teachers in Georgia’s public schools. I fully support creating high quality charter schools, but I cannot support the constitutional amendment. It would be harmful to the 2,300 public schools in the state that have been cut more than $4 billion since 2008. I am a true conservative who believes in limited government and fiscal responsibility. Establishing a charter school commission would go against both of those principles. First and foremost, we must work to restore school calendars to 180 days and make sure teachers are getting their full annual pay. A new state agency that duplicates the existing work of the state Department of Education and the powers of the State Board of Education – while taking away local control and costing taxpayers millions of dollars – is just plain wrong. If the amendment passes, I will honor the wishes of Georgia voters, but I could not stay silent on an issue so critical to our public schools. I look forward to continuing to work with you on issues relating to education in Georgia.
John Barge
Georgia Department of Education
And here is what Lindsey said in response:
Superintendent Barge:
I appreciate your response e mail and I am copying my GOP caucus and others since they also received my first sharp rebuke to you earlier this week. Quite frankly, however, despite your protestations, you simply cannot match up your present stated position in your email today with your past conduct in this area. I also sharply disagree with the merits of your arguments.
You were not an education novice who campaigned in 2010 by actively seeking out support from charter school advocates and indicated “strong support for state created charter schools. You are an experienced educator who was well versed on the history of the state supported charter school issue and fully understood at that time the arguments for and against — most of which being the same arguments we are hearing today.
Furthermore, this issue returned to a boil again shortly after you took office with the Supreme Court decision in the spring of 2011 striking down much of HB 881. In response, those of us in the Legislature and the executive branch worked closely with both advocates and critics of state funded charter schools for a year to answer concerns and fashion a coalition to pass the constitutional amendment in the Legislature. We also worked to maintain funding of existing state created charter schools with the help of your department.
As part of that effort, we also worked extensively throughout the process with representatives from your Department of Education for information and guidance. Throughout this long drawn-out process, you never raised opposition to the proposals, voiced fiscal concerns, opposed the continued funding of existing state funded charter schools, or otherwise indicated a change of heart. This history is what led to my blunt rebuke of your actions earlier this week.
Turning to the merits of your newly minted position, I share your stated concerns for the 1.6 million public school students in this state and the 111,000 public school teachers. Let me start of by reminding you that charter schools are public schools, charter school students are public school students, and charter school teachers are public school teachers.
Regrettably, there have been cuts in state spending on education since the beginning of the Great Recession in 2008 – as with every other state in this country. Nevertheless, education has seen some of the smallest cuts of any area in our state budget. Our teachers are still the highest paid in the Southeast and after adjusting for cost of living among the highest paid in the nation. Overall funding per pupil in Georgia is also the second highest in the Southeast.
The status quo on education in Georgia is unacceptable. The overall graduation rate in Georgia hovers in the mid 60% range and half of the students who come from low income households drop out before graduating high school. In my household, if my children brought home success records like this from school it would be time for serious changes. It should be same for the Georgia’s education system.
Charter schools are not a silver bullet – there is no one silver bullet – but they are a critically needed tool in the tool box for education reform. Confining children to low performing traditional schools with no hope of an alternative or choice is morally wrong in the 21st century, and under Georgia’s existing state constitution we already have a duty to provide a quality education for every child in Georgia.
I chaired the Charter School Study Committee in 2007 and studied charter schools in Georgia and around the country. Georgia’s present system has left us far behind other states in progress toward true education reform by virtue of many systems’ refusal to even consider charter schools or by other systems literally fiscally starving them to death.
Our charter school proposal provides a simple pressure relief valve – not a fire hose – by giving parents an alternative path for consideration of a charter school application. They must still meet rigorous standards for consideration and, if they fail to perform as promised, they can be shut down. (Let me know the last time a traditional public school was shut down for poor performance.)
You speak of local control. I believe the ultimate local control should rest with the parents and the students. Therefore, I will let you stand with the status quo education bureaucracy. I stand with the students and their parents who deserve better.
In closing, let me also add that I will work with you on other education issues in the future despite my deep disappointment in your reversal on this matter.
State Representative Edward Lindsey (R-Atlanta)
From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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262 comments Add your comment
Ron F.
August 17th, 2012
3:11 pm
living: I’ve said that. While I am learning a lot about charter schools that has helped me understand them much better, I absolutely don’t plan to vote for the amendment. I fully support charter schools and the role they can play in places like APS where more effective options need to be explored. But I uncategorically refuse to support the legislature and governor- they’re about as honest as Satan, in my opinion.
Holly Jones
August 17th, 2012
3:19 pm
@CTR- No, I still don’t see the need for the amendment. One of the big “selling points” for charters is that they do the same job for less money. So, your argument about how much the schools get now versus if the amendment passes doesn’t change the situation. And, based on recent numbers, the state sends more money per student to charters than they do to the traditional schools, the thinking being they are making up for the lack of local dollars. I see no need to give charters even more money, especially local money with NO local control, other than the parents of the charter school kids. It’s my tax money, I want a say in where it goes (sound familiar?) and this amendment gives me NO say in where it goes.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
3:21 pm
@ teaching/Fla
the original concept is actually a very good one. take the kids who the public schools can’t effectively serve and offer some of them an alternative. win win for everybody.
public school was never intended to serve everyong beyond a certain point. think bell curve.
problem is, what its become. just another point to belabor
living in an outdated ed system
August 17th, 2012
3:28 pm
Yes @Ron F – APS did a great job with Tech High and making 11th hour allocation changes that added costs to charter schools that should not have been allocated to them! You support charter schools as long as they are the bastard stepchildren of the local school boards.
Sorry to be so frank with my language, but that is EXACTLY what you are saying because you have shown you do not understand why innovation cannot be fostered inside a monopoly system of governance.
living in an outdated ed system
August 17th, 2012
3:30 pm
@Bootney – you just said something very controversial
“public school was never intended to serve everyone beyond certain point – think bell curve”
Are you serious? No child left behind is no child getting ahead. You are fine with leaving the low achievers vulnerable to gangs and youth crime because they were uneducated. And ironically, that’s exactly where digital learning can come in and save the day, but public schools don’t know how to do that!
living in an outdated ed system
August 17th, 2012
3:33 pm
@Bootney is the teacher I would NEVER hire in my school, because they would basically say “this child is not able to be taught – I’ll focus on the other kids.”
Unbelievable.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
3:35 pm
amazing how the people who inflicted Race to the Top on us are the primary ones doing a kamakazi
on education in general
CTR
August 17th, 2012
3:35 pm
@Holly. I guess we’ll just have to cordially disagree. You vote your way. I’ll vote mine. Hopefully me, and the kids who attend the 8 schools that stand to close will come out on top.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
3:39 pm
having reread both posts again, I can only draw one conclusion.
Lindsey is acting like a pompous ass.
Nolen Cox
August 17th, 2012
3:41 pm
Doing the math from the article; 1.6 million students with 111,000 teachers,equals 14.4 students per teacher. Yes we need a change, and a tax refund.
another comment
August 17th, 2012
3:45 pm
The only constitutional amendment that should be made it to get rid of the mandated amount of school distrits 158?? or what ever the current amount is. The truth is the current mega districts do not function for anything but Class 5 or is it now Class 6 football and other sports. Let us have truely local control of our schools, let Sandy Springs have their own district, they can then decided if Buckhead Residents can pay tuition, just like Decatur does to Dekalb. The new city of Brookhaven could open their own schools, people would no longer have to pay the $22,000 per year private school tuition. Dunwoody could open their schools, it could go on and on.
Or they could just let everyone have a voucher of their State and Federal Funds of the $8,600 the same for everyone whether you are gifted, on-level or EIP to follow the student. That would creat alot of choice. It would cover the Catholic school K-8, I would still have to kick in twice that for high school.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
@ Rep Lindsey
since you claim to be an avid reader of this blog, perhaps you will address something for me.
leaving all your rhetoric aside – you have been critical of Mr Barge for changing his position on a matter from the postions he held in 2007 and 2010. unless you have been living elsewhere, you may have heard of the disasterous state of the Georgia economy. Georgia is broke.
every major school system has been running major deficits. DeKalb was nearly $100 million in debt.
4 different USG schools were in debt. GPC still is.
how on earth can you be hypercritical of someone who is saying, in our given circumstances, we must stop spending money we don’t have on things we can’t afford?
Angela Palm
August 17th, 2012
4:06 pm
Just to set the record straight –
@CharterStarter 10:13
It is a well-documented fact that all 180 elected boards of education have chosen to join the Georgia School Boards Association and most do choose to get their training from us. The rest of your “fact” is, however, untrue.
We have a long-standing position supporting local approval of charter schools. We teach our boards that approving a charter is like adopting a child in that once the school is approved, it is theirs just as all other district schools are. They have chosen to allow the charters to be managed differently. We advise them to work out the terms of the relationship during the petition process.
Our presenters at charter workshops always include DOE personnel — Andrew Broy when he was here, Lou Erste, and others. They are hardly opposed to charters.
Throwing darts at us and our training is misdirection away from an important issue.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
4:08 pm
interesting things about Mr. Lindsey
1-up for re-election.
2-unopposed in GOP primary
3-top donors insurance/healthcare concerns
4-come from an affluent part of Atlanta where fiscal impact of his idea won’t be felt much
5-relection likely, but not a slam dunk
Angela Palm
August 17th, 2012
4:12 pm
@Beverly Fraud 12:26
I’m not sure why you would worry about the Georgia School Boards Association not lobbying on behalf of teachers. Teachers have several associations doing so, and we leave it to them.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
4:12 pm
@ Angela
what bothers me most is how both sides are wailing about choice. either the lack thereor or choice run amok. what it ultimately comes down to is wanting to have the power to make the decision.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
not to speak for Beverly, but my concern about the GSBA is apperance of wanting the benefits without having gotten dirty doing the work. all of us in education are under attack, GSBA as well.
Angela Palm
August 17th, 2012
4:27 pm
It is unfortunate this issue is getting so tangled up. This amendment is not about charter schools. It is about the state wanting more authority and using that to set up a new bureaucracy of appointees to approve schools that the elected officials denied.
Leave the decision-making to the body that was elected to make the best decision for all the students in the district based on the resources at hand rather than handing it over to an appointed body that has the luxury to decide that a small group should get what they want no matter the duplication or cost to the others. Corporations are in business to make money — providing a return to the shareholders is the goal. Education is about the kids and should remain so.
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
4:33 pm
@ Catlady. Sigh. Are we back here AGAIN? If charters are so “selective,” then how come they serve about the same (or over the last few years) more free and reduced lunch eligible students than traditional schools? I think the big fallacy is that poor parents can’t or won’t sacrifice for their children. We have charters in this state with more than 75%, more than 85, more than 90% free and reduced lunch. We have a lot of neglectful middle and upper class parents, too. We shouldn’t make such generalizations based on socioeconomic status. If that was the case, then those 90/90/90 schools wouldn’t be getting so much attention.
@ Jarvis – I appreciate your question. As I said, every district and every school was reported by the AJC not too long ago. Here are the links:
http://www.ajc.com/news/2012-georgia-crct-results-1466206.html
http://www.ajc.com/news/2012-georgia-crct-results-1476281.html
This reports out by grade and subject the number of students not meeting, meeting, and exceeding the standards. And if you go into the details, you can see other information, such as the mean scale score (i.e., not only who met or exceeded the standard, but to what degree). I hope that someone will take the time to do some real comparisons with our independent charters – NOT for the purpose of hammering the districts, but to at least show that our charters are performing well and showing continual growth and progress. For the state schools, look at the year before and see the growth of these schools, too, in grade levels and subjects. For established schools, look at the their performance and progress over time.
For those of you who continue to say it’s about the “for profits,” please explain all of our home grown charters who have been busting it for years on sweat equity of parents and community members to establish great learning environments and have no interest whatsoever in having someone else run their schools. What is their motivation? Take a balanced view of the landscape, please. And look nationally as well. Outside of the charter sector, in some other states, there are “contract schools” where traditional districts are contracting out to for-profits for management and instruction. It’s not solely the charter sector where these entities exist.
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
4:56 pm
@ Maureen, please show me quantifiable proof that those evil “for profits” are “backing” this amendment. Surely if you can make a statement like that you have proof to back it?
Also Maureen, thank you for pointing out the CREDO Standford study. As I am sure you are aware, this study got a HUGE amount of push from many scholars because of her methodology, and Caroline Hoxby, an economist (also from Standford), who studies education and impact on economics and equity called her out specifically. Hoxby said the CREDO study, using “virtual” twins for comparison had a huge statistical error and said that to be most statistically accurate, should use a comparison of students getting in to charters via the lottery and those who didn’t and returned to their home schools.
Let’s also get into some of the specific findings CREDO had aside from what you chose to publish. For one thing, the study found that over time, students perform better in charters than traditional schools; charters show greater growth in lower socio-economic and ELL students, and elementary and middle school charters outperform traditionals overall. So if you’re going to quote “studies,” then kindly provide the readers with a comprehensive view of the data for consideration. Those on this blog are educated individuals who will be able to reason of themselves.
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
4:57 pm
“Corporations are in business to make money — providing a return to the shareholders is the goal. Education is about the kids and should remain so.”
————————————————–
Well said.
Representative Edward Lindsey
August 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
All:
I want to start out by showing that I do read this blog. (I do not usually comment because I prefer to listen to what you have to say.)
I’d like to pick up on a couple side points raised in this discussion. The first was on giving teachers greater authority to handle discipline in the classroom. I’d like to hear more about what you think is needed that you do not presently have authority to do. The second was an intriguing suggestion about giving teachers the right to register a no confidence vote against a principal. How would this work and would you consider adding a role for parents? That may be an idea whose time has come. I strongly believe that a kealthy work environment is important in any place of work.
Perhaps Maureen can have a blog question on what teachers would do to improve their morale and classroom performance. I would like very much to listen to that conversation.
Have a good weekend.
Edward
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
5:06 pm
@ Ms. Palm, would you explain to me please, if this is the “state” driving this initiative why hundreds and hundreds of parents were burning up the phone lines and standing 10 deep along the ropes to get to their legislators this past legislative session? These schools – parents, governance boards, and staff alike – are trying to stay alive to continue serving their children successfully. And there are schools approved in local districts scared to death (because of implicit or explicit “suggestions”) their districts will not renew them and they’ll have no where to go. Do you disagree with there being a checks and balances like anything else in our society?
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
5:08 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth – so, are you saying that any for-profit company selling services or products to schools does not care about children and academic achievement?
LD
August 17th, 2012
5:24 pm
We do we keep getting lost in the weeds? This amendment is not about the schools themselves, but if the approval method goes through a board answerable to the voters or not.
Parent Teacher
August 17th, 2012
5:31 pm
@CharterStarter, Too 5:08
All for profit companies, wether it is textbook, testing, resources, technology or charter admins, are in the business of making money. That will always be the number one consideration all else will come in second. That is undeniable. If students are number one then it should be a nonprofit.
The reality is that schools are sold to time and time again products that don’t improve student learning. They sell any number of items that have all the bells and whistles but don’t really do anything positive. They want to make more money PERIOD. Students will always be second so no they don’t truly care about children or achievement except that it can help them make more money.
Further, teachers are not afraid of charters. The state currently has the authority to create charters without a constitutional amendment, they just have to figure out how to fund it without diverting resources from the public school. They can’t tap into local funding and have that money follow the student. It is tantamount to forcing people to buy healthcare (Obamacare). It is not a traditional Republican value or conservative. It is a socialist view. Yes, the GOP wants control which goes in the face of what the GOP is supposed to stand for.
Ron F.
August 17th, 2012
5:32 pm
“how on earth can you be hypercritical of someone who is saying, in our given circumstances, we must stop spending money we don’t have on things we can’t afford?”
Whole lot of knuckleheads got elected on the cut spending platform in recent years. Seems they’re willing to spend willy-nilly if it serves their political purpose. And they’ll villify any of their own who dare to call them on it.
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
5:42 pm
@ Parent Teacher – but what you are saying is that districts make better decisions about working with for profit organizations than charters. I’m not saying I disagree with your assessment, just that it needs to be applied equally across sectors. Either stop hounding the few charters who select management companies, or outlaw for profit goods and services period.
Regarding the money. If we can get away from “who controls the money” and consider that 1) they are public school kids and 2) there is an adequate amount of funds (yet to be defined) that every public school child should have put towards educating them. Why does it matter who “controls” the dollars if kids are learning and money is not being wasted? Insert what KIDS deserve (rather than districts, systems, and even schools) into this conversation and it takes on a whole different tone.
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
6:43 pm
@CharterStarter, Too, 5:08 pm
“Mary Elizabeth – so, are you saying that any for-profit company selling services or products to schools does not care about children and academic achievement?”
—————————————————————-
Public schools do not exist for profit. To imply that they do so is disingenuous.
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
7:19 pm
“Why does it matter who ‘controls’ the (taxpayers) dollars if kids are learning and money is not being wasted?”
==============================================
It matters enormously who “controls” the taxpayers’ dollars for the public education of all of the state’s children. Students must never be used as pawns for private profit gain. Profit, business enterprise, and capitalism have their proper places within American society, but not within public education wherein students are taught by public servants.
Ron F.
August 17th, 2012
7:25 pm
“You support charter schools as long as they are the bastard stepchildren of the local school boards.”
Nice to see that when all else fails, resort to foolish blather. If that were a chess move, you just sauntered into checkmate. Moving on to substantive deate now…
Ron F.
August 17th, 2012
7:34 pm
Mary Elizabeth: And they forget that when we stop being public servants, whether in public, charter, or private schools, the whole system suffers. Whatever reform is enacated, it is ultimately the teachers who make it work. We have plenty of examples in administrative roles in the metro area of what personal greed and aggrandizement do to a system founded on service. It saddens me that so many of us who continue to believe in our calling to serve have to be cast as very nearly criminal for our work to make a difference without spending more to get the same or less.
Beverly Fraud
August 17th, 2012
7:37 pm
“The second was an intriguing suggestion about giving teachers the right to register a no confidence vote against a principal.”
Well I’ll be d@mn! Ed ponied up to the bar!
I share some of the concerns that this is just a bonanza for “privateers” But that is tempered by the reality of the FSQ (Failed Status Quo) SOMETHING has to get the education monolith’s attention!
If they fought FOR discipline half as hard as they fought AGAINST this amendment we might not need this amendment!
But here’s the thing; why not address some of the shortcomings in the regular public schools AND advocate for greater choices? Glad you brought up the “no confidence vote”
You have two issues that are COMPLETELY handcuffing the regular classroom teacher. LACK of discipline, and administrative RETALIATION. (Don’t ask GAE/PAGE because as charter carrying members of the FSQ-Failed Status Quo-you’re not likely to get them to admit anything near the extent of the problem)
How do you fix this? Restore “checks and balances” Just think back to the APS cheating scandal. Teachers KNEW it was going on, but were powerless to stop it at their particular school. Teachers KNOW discipline is out of control in many schools, but are powerless to stop it. And unfortunately they know many an OIR department is “anti-teacher” and all but supports a corporate culture of bullying and intimidation (just look at the Governor’s report on the APS cheating scandal for example)
Why? ABUSE of the evaluation instrument. A teacher speaks up and then suddenly an “observation” takes place noting “deficiencies” even if none exists, the teacher is often powerless to contest it.
This is where you have CHECK and BALANCES. A “no confidence” vote. The principal who is creating hostile work conditions knows there is REAL accountability from his/her staff (and think about it, if CHILDREN can be trusted to evaluate teachers, why can’t teachers be trusted to evaluate administrators)
I know what some administrators might be thinking (would love Dr. Henson to weigh in on this) “It will cut off my authority to make tough staffing decisions”
Possibly. So here’s the way to address it. Set the bar LOW. Maybe the no confidence vote shouldn’t be right at 50% + 1. Maybe it should be 60%. That is if a FULL 60% of your staff has lost confidence in your ability to lead, perhaps HR in Central Office should be COMPELLED to look at it, not turn and blind eye to it. Sounds like an easy threshold for an “effective” principal to reach does it not? MORE than fair.
This threshold would easily prevent a few disgruntled employees from arbitrarily undercutting a good principal would it not? AND it has the added advantage of ” incentivizing” (for lack of a better term) principals to “counsel” out those teachers who have lost the respect of their peers (and don’t just keep them in because they happen, for example to be in the same sorority/fraternity which is an open secret is many a metro system)
Rep. Lindsey, if you are the LEAST bit serious, this could cause a SEISMIC shift in discipline and give a much needed MORALE boost to the classroom teacher. Why? Because a teacher can refer a child to the office knowing if there is RETALIATION for such an action, the STAFF can address that, rather than wait for a non-responsive central office to do so. A teacher can speak up at a faculty meeting, and if there is RETALIATION for doing so, the rest of the staff has recourse.
I’ll ask Dr. Henson, Tony and any other administrator out there: if a principal is doing their job, and doing it correctly, why would there be any fear of a “no confidence” vote as an appropriate check and balance? Isn’t time that the “corporate culture” of intimidation of teachers be given an appropriate check and balance?
catlady
August 17th, 2012
7:43 pm
CharterStarter: Only if you believe that all “those people” (free lunch folks) are unable to find out about a new charter opening. Of course, they are not. I was very poor while in grad school. My kids qualified for free lunch. Yet, I would certainly have been aware of availability of a charter school. There are “exceptional” free lunch folks–they would likely find out about the charter. However, those mired in poverty, ignorance, and un-nurtured children would probably not. So those “exceptional” poor folks are already a select group.
I recall when Athens was going through a “school choice” program back in about 1995. The upper and middle class parents took advantage of it; folks like me (the temporarily poor but not ignorant) did also. But the most disadvantaged did not–their kids got assigned to whatever was left over. While some folks wanted to blame them–they “didn’t care” about their kids when actually they were just so far out of the mainstream they were unable to respond.
DeKalb Teacher
August 17th, 2012
8:05 pm
@MaryElizabeth
Would you prefer $7k was spent at a for-profit giving children a good education or would you rather spend that $7k on what they are getting now in non-profits?
Charter schools are non-profit organizations. Just like county schools they can hire for-profits to carry out various tasks. Also, “non-profit” school executives make quite the profit.
LD
August 17th, 2012
8:08 pm
@catlady Also don’t forget that for most charter schools, parents need to provide transportation. For many in the FRL and/or ELL communities, this is a huge burden – in time, money, and logistics. Even if this population is fully aware of the charter school, sometimes they just can’t get there.
Beverly Fraud
August 17th, 2012
8:13 pm
@Maureen,
Will you honor Rep. Ed’s wish and to a blog topic about empowering teachers and improving morale?
Parent Teacher
August 17th, 2012
8:14 pm
CharterStarter
I am not against charter schools. I think that nonprofit charters are a valuable tool. I do however believe that local governments have the authority to create and oversee these schools.
The problem with a constitutional amendment is that it is not necessary. The state can create charters now. I think for profit management companies should not be allowed, ever. There is just too much incentive to cut corners to fatten the bottom line. They do not truly care about the students. It is only important to the extent that it will help them earn a greater profit. Further the real intent by the legislature is to create a system that uses public money to send their children to a quasi private school where they can create a curriculm based on false information (look at what is happening/happened to the textbooks in Texas).
The GOP has a 10, 20 and 50 year plan that is to build a moral system and turn back the protections of the constitution. This is but one step in this process. The people in power and corporations will reap the rewards. I am a Republican and have always stood for social freedom and fiscal responsibility but the direction that the Rebulican party has moved in is frightening.
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
8:44 pm
@ LD – the enabling legislation (HB 797) spells that out. The State board Rules and guidance require the same petition to be submitted (so charters have to make a good faith effort at the district level.)
Good question. Thanks for reading the language for yourself.
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
8:47 pm
Ron F, 7:34 pm
“Mary Elizabeth: And they forget that when we (educators) stop being public servants, whether in public, charter, or private schools, the whole system suffers.”
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And the whole nation suffers, Ron, when public servants stop being public servants. Business enterprise is not in business to foster the development of public servants, but public education should foster public servants, as Dr. Barge as shown himself to be through his choice to support public schools in Georgia for ALL of Georgia’s children.
I hope many will read my latest post on “Mary Elizabeth Sings” which explains why it is important for Americans to continue to value those who wish to serve others with their lives:
http://maryelizabethsings.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/a-monumental-choice-for-americas-future-character-and-destiny/
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
8:59 pm
@DeKalb Teacher, 8:05 pm
“MaryElizabeth
Would you prefer $7k was spent at a for-profit giving children a good education or would you rather spend that $7k on what they are getting now in non-profits?”
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I do not wish to see education turned into a profit-making enterprise so that some can make a lot of money by using children to do so. I want to see public education improved. Some public charter schools, working with local Boards of Education within their districts, should be able to complement, instead of supplant, traditional public schools. This process should be left in the hands of local Boards of Education, especially since parents have the right now, by present law, to appeal a decision made by a local Board of Education, regarding charter schools, to the state Department of Education via the Superintendent of Schools. There is no need for an amendment to the State’s Constitution to form a new body to control charter school assignments. That Constitutional amendment is primary a political undertaking, not an educational one, imo.
Also, not all public schools are second rate; some are excellent. Likewise, not all charter schools are excellent; some are second rate. I do not trust schools which are designed essentially on profit.
Mary Elizabeth
August 17th, 2012
9:03 pm
Correction: “primarily,” not “primary”
Maureen Downey
August 17th, 2012
10:01 pm
@Bev: Sure. Do you want to write it and I will post it?
Maureen
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
10:11 pm
improving morale…
step 1: instituting some kind of system of checks and balances. some way to curb the excesses of both runaway admin and runaway faculty
step 2: a raise. at least on in keeping with the costs of benefits.
step 3: a real, honest to God Ombudsman to act as an advocate for faculty/staff, or at least honest neutrality.
bootney farnsworth
August 17th, 2012
10:31 pm
@ Beverly
a question we often asked ourselves at GPC was if there had been a sincere watchdog, could we have stopped the disaster before it began.
we saw ourselves going broke, we saw ourselves being overrun with unnecessary middle management, we saw ourselves compromised. we tried and tried to get downtown’s attention, but nobody wanted to hear it
Representative Edward Lindsey
August 17th, 2012
10:32 pm
Bev and the rest:
I am very serious about your suggestions. I’d like to see teachers come around on the charter school amendment, but, if not, I trust we can find common ground on other reforms. Any meaningful overhaul of the status quo in education must include a healthy environment for teachers to operate in whether it be a charter or traditional public school.
I look forward to hearing your ideas and, if they are doable, I’ll carry the water. Keep in mind in politics your opponent on an issue today could be your closest ally tomorrow. (And yes, that includes me and Superintendent Barge. While I believe my rebuke was justified and he disagrees, I have no intention of letting this disagreement spill over to other reforms. I trust he feels the same.)
Edward
LD
August 17th, 2012
10:52 pm
@ Charter Starter, Too: Yes, but the statement was that it is spelled out in the amendment. Amendments are much more difficult than legislation. For an amendment to be successful, there needs to be a 2/3 vote in each of the chambers (thus the difficulty with HR1162 in the first place.. it was voted down the first time it appeared in both of the Georgia chambers), and then ratified by a simple majority of the voters. If the authorizing mechanism was that clearly spelled out in the amendment, great. However, legislation is much easier to manipulate. Just because HB797 is currently law, doesn’t mean that come January 14, 2013 some legislator won’t introduce legislation that will completely change the landscape. And legislation requires only a simple majority in the chambers and the governor’s signature. I have faith that the vast majority of educators are dedicated and truly try to do their best for all their students. However, I do not have faith that the vast majority of our legislators are that dedicated and truly trying to do their best for all their constituents. Now, if your campaign contribution is high enough, then the legislator might try harder. Personally, I think there will be a proposed change to HB797 in the 2013 session.
And, if you read HB797, it becomes very clear that the commission is duplication of effort. In line 77, the commission may “. . . use existing department personnel to conduct . . .” reviews of charter petitions. As HB797 is legislation, there is no reason the legislature could not have giving the state Board the granting authority. Also, in my mind, there is no reason the legislature could not have clearly spelled out the state board’s ability to grant charters in the amendment.
Charters are a great option for a communities. I don’t think the commission is.
CharterStarter, Too
August 17th, 2012
11:38 pm
@ LD – sounds like you don’t have much of an appreciation for our system of government. Why don’t you either 1) run for office. 2) move? I am not saying that to be rude….I almost say it tongue in cheek because that’s what opponents tell chartee supporters about the locals. The same “worries” you have about the legislature are the local political realities charters continually face. It’s maddening. We just want integrity in the process.
I respect your decision but hope you will continue to study the issue and keep an open mind.
Mary Elizabeth
August 18th, 2012
5:45 am
In addition to the remarks which I had posted on the first page of this thread, I also posted the following comments on Kyle Wingfield’s blog regarding this issue, which I wish to share with readers of this blog:
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“Two points: (1) The charter movement is a growing phenomenon, so even if there have been only relatively few charter schools to be concerned about supplanting traditional public schools presently, the real possibility for even greater momentum in this direction lies on the horizon through political means. (2) There is only so much taxpayers’ money to go around, divide it how you wish. Too much financial resource taken from traditional public schools for charter schools will weaken traditional public schools – which are charged with educating ALL of the children of the state. That is why local Boards of Education should be the overseers of this balance between charters in their districts and traditional public schools in their districts.
I want to go on record as saying that I am not against public charter schools and that I believe that working through local Boards of Education, public charter schools might complement rather than dismantle traditional public schools. Furthermore, there is no need for this amendment to Georgia’s Constitution, as there already exists by law a means of appeal to parents regarding establishing charter schools to the state’s Board of Education via the Superintendent of Schools.”
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Pride and Joy
August 18th, 2012
8:17 am
Here is a sure fire way to end all charter schools immediately….
Make all traditional public schools into outstanding institutions for learning and make them models of honesty and integrity.
You see, if all public schools were already doing what they were paid to do there would be no charter schools.
But because many public schools are horrendous failures, there will always be parents like me who demand an adequate education for our children. We’re already paying for it. I’ve already paid for it. If I had all my educatoin tax dollars back, I could send my children to Woodward for k-12.