Is there still a stigma to going to school in the South?
Three recent conversations raise questions about the perception of Southern education:
•A friend who teaches in south Georgia had a favorite student move to Massachusetts this summer. A high achiever, the teen is going to attend a top public school in his new area. But he was told by a counselor at his new school that it was unlikely that he was prepared to handle the honors track there. In fact, the counselor suggested that he may need remediation. This was not based on any test scores, but on the fact that boy had attended school in rural Georgia.
•I recently talked to a retired executive whose career track included a brief departure from east Cobb for Chicago where the family lived in one of the swank North Shore suburbs with nationally recognized schools. In the first meeting at the school, administrators mentioned to the executive that his two children may need to go back a grade as it was probable they were behind. The father refused, and his children did fine.
•Over the weekend, a woman told me that her rising high school senior attended two camps this summer held at Northeastern campuses he was considering for college. (She figured that going to camp there would give him insights into whether he would be happy attending college there.) He was the lone Southern camper, and was peppered with questions about all the negative Southern stereotypes. Eventually, his mom advised him not to tell people he was from Georgia, but from Atlanta.
For those who moved South from other regions, did you have fears about school quality?
And, if you have left the South for other regions, have you encountered the assumption that you or your children received an inferior education? Did your children get an inferior education? Were your new schools a notable improvement?
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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152 comments Add your comment
tim
August 13th, 2012
2:38 pm
Maybe they said “I’m fixin to”….
Enough said.
Rightwing Troll
August 13th, 2012
2:47 pm
It’s an honor that the south has worked hard to earn and keep…
First on all the academic lists you don’t want to be first on, and last on the lists you don’t want to be last on… and working hard to keep it so.
An Accidential Professor
August 13th, 2012
3:00 pm
At least they didn’t go to an online school…..
sloboffthestreet
August 13th, 2012
3:02 pm
The question asked was, “For those who moved South from other regions, did you have fears about school quality?
I didn’t have any fears as I inquired directly to the local Board of Education and the home office before moving and was assured that the schools were the best in the state. This information left me thinking education for our children would be a success and that the professionals relaying the information could be trusted to be honest. “WEEELCUM 2 THA SOWTH SUN!” I ustacud beeleave peeple but no moor. Shud git tha sine out in tha yard, “Must Sale.”
Old timer
August 13th, 2012
3:03 pm
I did…when I moved south…to Dekalb in 1964 the schools were far behind. My sister, the smart one was actually bumped up a grade. We had many of the same books we had had the year before.
Now, I think, at least in most metro areas Ga has caught up. Students I taught from other parts of the country were about the same as here. Many from areas such as Chicago, Boston ..etc were behind and lacking in information and skills.
sloboffthestreet
August 13th, 2012
3:05 pm
Also with the reputation Chicago and the rest of the state has for being less than forthcoming, perhaps a different friend from a different local would have made a better comparison?
Traveler
August 13th, 2012
3:06 pm
My daughter went to school here in FL. Graduated Phi Beta Kappa from FSU’s Honors Program in Creative Writing. Her parents involvement was the key, not the region of the country.
Pleeese, Maureen!
I thought so
August 13th, 2012
3:15 pm
A group of educators were recently discussing did we think a student from a Clayton County high school would do well in comparison to a student from a North Fulton County School at Howard University, Spelman or Xavier? We all responded unanimously, “NO”.
Atlanta School Board Member
August 13th, 2012
3:22 pm
What! Our students all get excellent grades.
ByteMe
August 13th, 2012
3:24 pm
He was the lone Southern camper, and was peppered with questions about all the negative Southern stereotypes.
Huh. I get the same thing around here for my minority status. Stupid is everywhere, you say?
William Casey
August 13th, 2012
3:27 pm
The South in general is fairly far behind in education. The sad part of it is that many Southerners seem to glory in it. When asked about intellectual development, they will come back with, “I don’t care. The SEC has won six straight football championships.”
Richard
August 13th, 2012
3:35 pm
The South lags in education mainly because the students are raised by idiots.
Ernest
August 13th, 2012
3:38 pm
William, some down South may be more interested in your time in the 40 yard dash than your score on the ACT or SAT.
I find it interesting when I speak to my friends in the Northeast that they perceive schools down South as behind when compared to theirs. One thing they look at is the amount we pay for property taxes versus what they pay. They’ve heard of many coming down South being ‘equity rich’ and purchasing large homes yet found the schools of lesser quality.
Lisa
August 13th, 2012
3:39 pm
This topic reminds me of how much I want to laugh when people complain that “the federal government should stay out of Georgia education! WE know best how to teach our kids!” Yeah, well, Georgia also consistently ranks at or near the bottom in many categories. Maybe we should listen to what the rest of the nation has to say (e.g. Common Core).
Tom
August 13th, 2012
3:40 pm
Since socio-economic levels strongly correlate to educational performance, I suspect that the average student attending a north Fulton or northeastern Gwinnett school would compare favorably to the average student of any school anywhere. Schools in solidly middle class areas are going to have similar performance in Georgia, New York, Michigan, or California. Unfortunately for too many middle and south Georgia areas, the average is going to reflective of the poverty in some areas. Exceptional students notwithstanding, it’s very difficult for a school to exceed the background of the parents in its service area.
LS
August 13th, 2012
3:46 pm
I attended a well regarded public high school in Ohio in the 1980’s. My cousin moved from a rural Georgia school to my school for our senior year. She was an honors student in rural Georgia, but was very behind when she enrolled in similar honors courses in Ohio.
Fred in DeKalb
August 13th, 2012
3:56 pm
***Exceptional students notwithstanding, it’s very difficult for a school to exceed the background of the parents in its service area.***
I wish some of the folks on DSW2 would acknowledge this. If academic progress growth was a measure, you can realize that things are not as bad as they seem. Hopefully since the state is no longer using the controversial NCLB/AYP as the sole measure, citizens will see that academic progress is being made despite the background of some of the parents.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
3:57 pm
there is nothing wrong with our higher education outside of the stupidity and ignorance of yankees, yankee wannabes, and the far far left who consider anything here inferior.
our secondary schools need a fair amount of help, but that has as much to do with the widespread poverty in our rural areas and a cultural obsession with football ahead of academics.
Atlanta Mom
August 13th, 2012
4:01 pm
Well said Tom.
Yankee
August 13th, 2012
4:01 pm
I moved to Cobb in 9th grade from the Chicago suburbs, and in my opinion the academic standards were substantially lower. My gpa went up quite a bit though I worked much less. This wasn’t that long ago, and I was at an “excellent” Cobb County H.S. in honors classes, AP, etc. I did learn what I needed to make it in college. But that was all.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:01 pm
and lets not forget the cherry picking done by our “friends” up north. I’d be happy to put APS up against DC, or NYC inner city, or Detroit, Southie, or the LA Barrios, or….
if you wanna go point by point, I can refute this stupidity all day
So Cal Belle
August 13th, 2012
4:02 pm
As my BIL told my nephew who was going to law school in Michigan; “If you’re going to work in the south, go to school in the south”. He struggled for two years before returning to ATL and graduating from law school here. Currently a defense attorney in Cumming GA doing well.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
4:03 pm
Between my junior and senior years of high school, I attended an engineering camp around Chicago. I was one of three students from Georgia there, and we were the only three from any farther south than Kentucky. I can tell you there was a large difference between the three of us (one being from near Savannah, one from the Metro area and myself being from rural northwest Georgia) and very little difference between the knowledge of the guy from the Metro and the rest of the students there. Then when I was at Georgia Tech, I saw the same difference there. In high school, I had done much better than most of my peers, but at Tech, I was so far behind it would have been comical had it not been so sad. The point I’m making is the same as the one Tom was making, it depends on what part of the South you’re from. If you’re from Atlanta, chances are, you’ll be in the same position as those students from the rest of the country. If you’re from the rural parts of the state, you could be very far behind. And that doesn’t just apply to schools outside the South, it applies to the top tier colleges in the South also.
Beverly Fraud
August 13th, 2012
4:04 pm
@I thought so can you explain why teachers down there join an organization, CCEA, that worked to ABOLISH the right of a teacher to remove a severely disruptive child from the class-even temporarily?
Maybe that’s why SOME systems in the south are producing large numbers of students that can’t compete academically.
You’d think with the discipline problems down there (apparently “Sarge” Heatley doesn’t understand the importance of discipline) the LAST thing you’d want your professional organization to be doing on behalf of teachers is ABOLISHING rights to maintain order in the classroom.
Funny thing; if this is NOT true, you’d think someone from CCEA would come here and quickly dispel that “erroneous” information. Seems to indicate that either it’s true, or they’ve never heard of Get Schooled. And who hasn’t heard of Get Schooled?
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:06 pm
one time when in NYC, I bought a hot dog from a street vendor, who made fun of my accent. he stopped when I pointed out to him 1-his miscounted my change and 2- the misspelling on his cart.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:08 pm
hell, you want proof we’re smarter than yankees?
have you been to Jersey? seen what they call quality of life in NYC?
there’s a reason far more of them are moving here than us moving there
joeyK
August 13th, 2012
4:09 pm
Moved to Atlanta in 1969 from a northern suburb of Chicago (though it was far cry from a “swank North Shore suburb”). The high school (in a northern suburb of Atlanta) was pretty bad. I got through mostly on what I learned in grammer school up north. I understand that things are mostly better now.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:10 pm
another thing about our “enlightened” brothers up north. want to freak a yankee out? use good old fashioned southern manners. they tend to vapor lock
A dad
August 13th, 2012
4:16 pm
All you need to do is look at the performance of GA students who initially qualified for the Hope scholarship after graduating from high school, but once they are out and away from the inflated grades, etc., they quickly fail to measure up to collegiate standards and loose their qualifications. Also, most Southern students tend to stay and attend collegews here in the south. Other than Duke, GA Tech, and Emory, the South really has very few highly regarded colleges for acadmics. Sadly, William Casey at 3:27 had it spot on. Academics be damned, college football is #1 priority in the South. Sad.
Beverly Hall
August 13th, 2012
4:16 pm
How could anyone call City of Atlanta, DeKalb County or Clayton County schools anything but exceptional!
The entire line of questioning regarding the quality of Southern schools is out of line.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
4:19 pm
I’m curious about the comparisons to the metro school systems in the 80s and earlier. Everyone knows there was a difference then, but that doesn’t mean anything towards today unless you’re talking about an inability to recognize the fact that growth could have happened in the past 30+ years. I would say even in the past 10+ years. I know the high school I went to has gotten better (not a lot, but still better) since I graduated.
Jefferson
August 13th, 2012
4:21 pm
And it is correct for the most part, but there are always exceptions.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
4:23 pm
A dad – To an extent I agree with you, but it isn’t always inflated grades that causes that. It is sometimes the fact that the students went to poor quality rural schools that face the reality that many of their students are going to end up working on a farm or in a mill and therefore spend their resources focusing on preparing them for that and the ones that are planning to attend college are left largely (if not completely) unprepared. Having a stronger system of community colleges would help these students (assuming you could convince the ones that graduated at the top of their classes that community college wasn’t something to look down on) tremendously also.
jdug
August 13th, 2012
4:24 pm
To: Richard who posted – “The South lags in education mainly because the students are raised by idiots.”
Most on this thread are trying to have civil discourse. I suspect a cursory review of your history would reveal who the real idiot is. I sold computer systems all over the US and I can assure you that the south does not harbor all the idiots.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
4:27 pm
jdug – …the south does not harbor all the idiots. No, we just do a better job of getting them on TV than anyone besides New Jersey does (have you ever watched a typical SEC game and watched as they panned through the stadium and zoom in on the fans? What about those insipid shows like Toddlers and Tiaras or Real Housewives of Atlanta? We do such a great job at marketing ourselves).
AlreadySheared
August 13th, 2012
4:32 pm
Why most other states got Praxis & we got GACE? I always suspected it was so that GA could set their own teacher sibject knowledge cut scores without being compared unfavorably to other states.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:32 pm
for all the dumb things we do – and we own them, out front without shame
-Chicago had a prison even more brutal than Andersonville.
-Chicago, Philadelphia, NYC, Baaaaston ect have never been Olympic cities
-Baaaaston has a longer, more violent history of race riots than any southern city. NYC is not far behind. This includes Selma and Brimingham.
-in the south we’re smart enough to own AC for when the temp gets so high.
-Faulkner, Lanier, Twain, Warren, Williams, Fox, Capote, Lee, Welty, O’Conner, Warren, Dickey, Conroy, Rice, Trethewey, Wolfe, Foote, Wright, Caldwell, Kay, McGill, Townsend, Poe, Bragg, Fitzgerald, and even GPC products Riggs, Fitten, and Corbin.
Maureen Downey
August 13th, 2012
4:34 pm
@Dad, I would expand that list to include several other schools, which are well regarded and tough to get into, including Davidson, Vanderbilt, UNC Chapel Hill, Wake-Forest, UGA, Spelman, Rhodes, UVA, Morehouse, William and Mary, Centre College, Sewanee, Elon, Washington & Lee.
Maureen
Just got this release from the Fiske Guide. Georgia schools featured in Fiske 2013 include:
· Agnes Scott College
· Emory University
· University of Georgia
· Georgia Institute of Technology
· Morehouse College
· Oglethorpe University
· Spelman College
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:37 pm
oops. that’s Corin. sorry Josh, typo. anyone who stages a kidnapping in the stall of a rest stop restroom deserves correct props
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
4:40 pm
But Maureen, they’re in the South, so don’t believe that they’re ranked as some of the best in the country in their fields, you know because they’re in the South that has to be a fluke.
Bernie
August 13th, 2012
4:42 pm
All one needs to do, is to at a closer look at the most popular legislation that was passed in the STATE of Georgia in the past year and the proposed plan that is pending concerning EDUCATION. It would not take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to see that there is something terribly amiss with the thinking of the POPULACE in the SOUTH.
Ignorance is a VIRTUE that is EXTOLLED HERE!
Just as the decision recently by the Atlanta Public School System to make ALL student, who reside less than mile from their schools to go without school Bus Service.
Such a move would not be tolerated or even considered for those students
who are members of the LUCKY GENE POOL CLUB!
To see elementary school children of all AGES trekking through Atlanta’s Dangerous
Streets trying to avoid speeding drivers, inclement weather and hold other list of dangerous issues just to get to school in 2012! This is a very poor reflection of our MAYOR, City Council, APS school Board, Business Leaders and other civic leaders
including Parents to allow such a process to occur!
Just another EXAMPLE, of BACKWARDS thinking allowed to proceed to be inflicted
upon the most defenseless group of citizens……OUR CHILDREN!
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:55 pm
sorry Dad, time to take you to the woodshed.
Mercer
Annapolis
University of the South
SCAD (for what they do-they do it damn well)
Miami
Tulane
Duke
Furman
Rice
VMI for those so inclined
Wofford
Hampton-Sydney
Ga. State Business school
Ole Miss
its a long proud list. and this is just the tip of it.
it's generally true
August 13th, 2012
4:55 pm
Having taught many years in a couple rural Georgia high schools, I am able to say that, with a very
few exceptions, transfer students who come to Georgia from northern/eastern states tend to be
more academically developed than our own. GENERALLY.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
4:57 pm
@ Bernie
to quote a famous southern philosopher Louis Grizzard
“Delta is ready when you are”
Bernie
August 13th, 2012
5:00 pm
bootney farnsworth @ 4:57 pm – Your comment is a verification of mine as stated!
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
5:00 pm
@ generally
makes sense. the smartest yankess get the hell out of there as fast as they can.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
5:02 pm
it’s generally true – I would say that you’re right as long as you remember the qualifier of rural.
Bernie – DOES it MAKE it more TRUE if I type like THIS? Or does it just make you seem ignorant and upset? Also, can someone (doesn’t have to be you, but you brought it up so it is only fair) please explain what the business community has to do with students being asked to walk to school? I guess it is possible that I’m missing something there, and I would like to know what.
bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
5:06 pm
quick reminder by a dumb ole slow talkin’ southern boy.
a post filled with caps is the electronic equivalent of shouting over somebody when you can’t logically support a point. a trick I’ve found yankees favor when confronted with their own ignorance.
nows ifn ya’ll will scuse me, I’m afixing to steep out of this here trayler and goes kick my two hounddawgs, capritbagger n yankee.
T-Square
August 13th, 2012
5:12 pm
bootney – Now don’t be kicking your dogs. It is bad enough that you gave them bad names, now you’re talking about kicking them too? For shame man, for shame.
Well, I’ll check back later to see if anyone can tell me what businesses have to do with buses, but for now I’m
going homegoing to sit in traffic for an hour or so.bootney farnsworth
August 13th, 2012
5:13 pm
Et Bernie
even fo a dumbern box a rocks yankee or yankeewannbe, y’all last comment makes no sense atall.
maybes y’all coulds explaine its twos me a mite slower.
after all, Is just a dum ole southern boy with too colege d-grees and my ritin n redin comes a mite slow ta me