Under new law, will state send more funds per child to state charter schools than local systems?

Patrick: profit is a huge motivator in all of this. When you look at the percentage of state budgets that go to education, you realize what a pot of gold is sitting there if the private interests can get to it. Much of education depends on the public/private partnerships to provide services and materials. The private sector benefits from a strong public sector already. Perhaps the best point you make is that the accountability becomes much more difficult, and that clearly creates an environment where private interests can get even more of the money with less worry about who’s checking up on them. The recent debacle with Fulton Science Academy proves that point. One of my concerns is how financial accountability will be handled for the state commissioned charter schools. If the local BOE has no investment in these schools, then who will be auditing their books? I’m pretty sure the state won’t be looking very closely at what they do, and the individual boards managing the schools may or may not be as honest as we would hope (again FSA as an example). One need only look at how privatization of services in the military in this country has worked out. What was supposed to save so much taxpayer money has become a gluttonous pig that has only swelled defense spending in the last thirty years. And those corporations who gorge themselves at the trough of tax dollars have very little accountability to the public that provides their funding. I predict in the next five years, if the amendment passes in November, we’ll have the educational equivalent of Halliburton sucking the system dry, education budgets will rise steadily, and the general public will have very little recourse to stop it.

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Ron F, 10:30 am

Well said, Ron, and Heaven help the children, if this institutional transformation from public to private education, with its impending greed, were to happen. . .

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My 10:45 has disappeared…

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Isn’t the State sending extra dollars to state chartered school to make up for the local funding dollars that a state chartered school does NOT get from local property taxes? In other words, the state is making up a funding gap–if it didn’t send extra dollars to these schools, then the schools would actually get much less total per pupil funding than any other school (including a locally approved charter school) within a school district. While I understand the overarching concern about the total size of the funding “pie,” there is an element of fairness at play here to make sure that kids at these schools are not disadvantaged from the outset by the mechanism used to approved the school’s charter.

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I am somewhat confused. Is the goal to simple get more money or is the goal to educate students?

As a parent we have tried private schools, public schools, and the georgia virtual academy. The small privates sometimes dont have certified teachers, the public schools vary greatly in quality, but the georgia virtual academy has been our favorite. My youngest will be a sophmore in GVA and has been in that program since 6th grade, all test scores are far above national averages .

The goal should be an education, not a money grab. If a school performs, fine, if not why should they continue to get funds. At a teacher conference (at a small private school) I once asked if my child could receive some extra help in math, I was told and this is a quote from the teacher, ” I have him for 55 minutes , he either gets it then or he doesnt get it.”

This is about educating children, not money. Am i the only one who finds it odd that the e-mails are only concerned with money and not education?

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Well, my 10:45 basically called upon the AJC to do a CRCT-type investigation into the “initiatives” of the last several years to “improve” education in Georgia, such as the private school vouchers for sped kids and any effort at oversight, the tax-diversion-to-private-schools program and its lack of oversight, the (now declared unconsitutional) state commission on charter schools, and the other efforts the legislature has made to starve the regular public schools. Print legislators’ names and affiliations/supporters front and center (we have the best legislature money can buy!) Also detail the cuts that K-12 has suffered in Georgia over the last 10 years. Put it all out there, in a special section, for everyone to evaluate the “effectiveness” of their legislators and obtain “accountability” from them for their “work.”

Maybe this, being abbreviated, will post.

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I am confused by all of this, but it seems like the article is talking about only STATE funding. Since local schools get most of their funding from local sources – such as property tax, and only a portion from STATE sources, but STATE Charter schools don’t get ANY support from local sources, these schools depend solely on STATE funding.

Why don’t you just compare TOTAL funding of the different schools.

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To all Public School Teachers: The State of Georgia and their Charter School Partners are preparing your kool-aid. What will you do? Drink it or refuse this nonsense. This is a travesty against public school education. Of course, the public schools are going to lose money. We’ve been losing money since the state voted in the lottery for education. Follow the money, folks.

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Dunwoody Mom: The Charter Schools are selective in their enrollment. SWD and ELL students are cut from charter school’s choice of students. Their student population will learn less about how to work in a democracy than the public school students because they will never be exposed to the real world. A real public school is a microcosm of society, i.e., all levels of learners from all levels of economic backgrounds. The charter schools don’t want to “confuse” their students with these differences.

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There is no question that there is much to correct in the public school setting; however, abandoning them should not be a possibility. The public schools are burdened with too many preposterous rules and regulations while the charter schools can set their own. The students left in the charter schools need more than most students because they will be the at-risk and no family support groups. What are we supposed to do with them? PUt them in jail before their crimes are committed? I refuse to give up on them! They deserve the best we can do for them and with them. Charter schools dilute the resources of the public schools period.

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catlady, 11:51 am

I agree, and thank you for your post. “Knowledge is power.”

As a committed Instructional Lead Teacher, whose basic job function was to insure the academic success of all of the students in my school, I had developed a chart which depicted – on one page – the complete developmental history of each student who was having academic or behaviorial problems – going back years into his/her history, often even to his/her birth, in order to analyze his or her school problems, thoroughly and correctly.

So, as an entreaty to the AJC, since the basic job function of the press is to insure that our democratic Republic – of, by, and for the people – remains viable for the people into the future, would you please inform the people, in great detail, how they have been effected by Georgia’s Legislative decisions over the past decade? I would hope that Georgia’s press would inform the public about the educational monetary decisions made by Georgia’s Legislature – over the past decade – by publishing an “Educational Developmental History of Georgia’s Legislature” regarding its monetary allotments, which have “starved the public schools” in Georgia for the past decade, while at the same time it has promoted “school choice,” which enhances private educational enterprise. (Btw, the “School Choice Week” promotion, through Georgia’s Legislature of this past winter, was sponsored by state Sen. Chip Rogers, ALEC’s national treasurer.)

In addition, as “catlady” had requested of the AJC in her 11:51 am post, please “(p)rint legislators’ names and affiliations/supporters front and center. . .Put it all out there, in a special section, for everyone to evaluate the ‘effectiveness’ of their legislators and obtain ‘accountability’ from them for their ‘work.’ ”

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Prof, 12:51 pm

“. . .any changes (in the TRS) would affect public school and USG staff employees as well as teachers/professors. These public school staff employees are also TRS members.”
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Thank you, Prof, for this additional information which informs the public, in even greater detail.

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Cutting through all the spin, it seems like the real question is whether Georgia wants to improve the traditional public education system (with private or parochial schools always available for those with the means and desire) or do they want a 2 tiered public system–(1) a centrally state controlled charter school system financed at a more liberal amount, and (2) a traditional locally controlled public school system financed with less and less state money. If they choose the former, quality public schools will wither on the vine and those remaining will be for job training for the poor. Parents who think they will control the charter schools will soon have a rude awakening. The real power will be in the state and the for-profit education companies hired to run the charter schools. The end result will be better for a few but worse for most. Clever sophistries aside, CharterStarter2 should come down from her/his zealot’s perch and debate the issues honestly.

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@ Mountain Man – YES! That is exactly the point. Taking ALL tax payer funding streams and comparing side by side, districts FAR exceed charters in funding.

@ Ron – yes… The districts no longer get funds they don’t earn for students they don’t educate… THAT would be double dipping. They lose the expense, too. Enrollment at charters is done in the early spring in plenty of time for budgeting.

@3Kids – austerity reductions in state unds in Georgia began around 2002 – long before Commission and state schools as we know them existed.

@ Dunwoody Mom – check your facts. We have charters that serve very high populations of ELL kids (PATH and ICS in DeKalb). ALL charters are mandated to serve special needs students, and all do.

@ I Like Teaching – remember I quoted about inertia and the unique qualities of charters in an earlier post? Charters came about because the status quo refused to change and many parents and teachers demanded something better or different. We are a catalyst.

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Adequate equitable funding and attracting and retaining high quality educators to the field are the conversations that are likely to have a far more significant effect on the quality of education and learning in Georgia than charter vs. tradition public schools.

There is far too much entrenchment and intransigence on the issue of charter vs. traditional schools. And far too much selective citing of data and numbers. I suspect if tomorrow every school in Georgia were to become a charter school, that the performance of charter schools would be nearly identical to traditional schools. That said, here are the most recent numbers garnered from GA DoE reports.

In the 2010-2011 school year, 98,263 of Georgia’s 1,633,596 public school students were enrolled in charter schools in Georgia. (1)

Charter schools underperform vs. traditional schools: “During the 2010–11 school year, Georgia had 162 charter schools in operation serving 56 districts. Of these charter schools, 70% made Adequate Yearly Progress this year. This is comparable to the 73% of traditional public schools that made Adequate Yearly Progress this year.” (2)

Charter schools serve fewer Free and Reduced Lunch students: “During the 2010-11 school year 49.5% of Georgia’s charter school students qualified for free and reduced lunch. There has been a steady decline in the number of charter school students eligible for free or reduced lunch from a high of 60% of charter schools students eligible for free and reduced lunch in 2007-08. This is the opposite of the overall trend in Georgia, where non-charter schools have seen a steady growth in free and reduced lunch eligibility peaking this year at 57%. The difference is because of the growing number of Georgia charter schools that serve suburban and middle class areas.” (2)

“Georgia charter schools serve fewer students with disabilities than do non-charter schools. However, some Georgia charter schools do not serve any students with disabilities while others serve 30%. Twenty-three charter schools have 10% or more of their students with disabilities.” (2). Traditional public schools in Georgia averaged 10.0% students with disabilities. Charter schools averaged 7.9%. -The national average in 2008-2009 was 13.2%. (3)

Under HR 797, it would appear that on average state charter schools will continue to receive fewer tax payer dollars than traditional public schools. In fiscal year 2011, the average per pupil funding across school districts was local $3,685.74 + state $4,290 = $7,975.88. (4). State charter schools will receive $6,992.28 (as Herb Garrett lists and the GA DoE confirms).

The real conversations shouldn’t be about how the chairs are arranged on the deck, but about adequate equitable funding and attracting, training, and retaining master educators to the profession. It is a bit dated, but if you are interested in understanding school funding in Georgia, and how it could be altered to increase equity, you may wish to read the “Provision of an Equitable Public School Fiance” by the Fiscal Research Program at GSA. (5)

[References]

(1) Quick Facts about Georgia Public Education
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/External-Affairs-and-Policy/communications/Documents/Quick%20Facts%20About%20Georgia%20Public%20K-12%20Education%202012.pdf

(2) Georgia Charter School Division Annual Report 2011-2012
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/External-Affairs-and-Policy/Charter-Schools/Pages/Annual-Reports.aspx

(3) NCSE Fast Facts Students with Disabilities
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=64

(4) Georgia Department of Revenue Local, State, and Federal Revenue Report:
http://app3.doe.k12.ga.us/ows-bin/owa/fin_pack_revenue.display_proc

(5) Provision of an Equitable Public School Fiance” by the Fiscal Research Program at GSA.
http://aysps.gsu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/frc/report43.pdf

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Ron F, 12:48

“It scares me how quickly many have jumped on the issue of charter schools with such fervor for dismantling public education and how naive many are about the real driving forces in the reform movement. This reminds me over and over about debates in the past about privatizing military services, and the end results will undoubtedly be much the same.”
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We must keep trying to alert the public, and we must not lose faith that we can have impact.

Sadly, I, like you, can appreciate how some parents of children are stuck in an unfortunate educational environment would want to send their children to another school setting, but I can also see an even greater misfortune happening – to even more children in Georgia – if political interests, which are driven by a powerful national agenda, were to be able to control a large part of this state’s public educational delivery, through the State Commission of Charter School’s Amendment to Georgia’s Constitution (to be voted on by the public in November).

We must never forget about, nor dismiss from our focus, those students who are in certain unproductive classrooms, perhaps some within the Atlanta Public School System and some perhaps within the DeKalb County School System (as well as within classrooms in other school systems in Georgia). Parents must focus upon encouraging and/or demanding their local Boards of Education either establish more public charter schools within their districts which will work with their traditional public schools – or upgrade instruction within their traditional public schools – to make certain that every student has a satifactory – if not excellent – school environment. Media attention will help insure that parents are successful in their efforts to effect change in their local school districts.

You mentioned the concept of the privatization of our military to demonstrate how adversely the privatization of our public schools would effect students and teachers. There have been reports that Halliburton benefitted financially from the Iraq War (See link, below). That is one example of what can happen when the the public sector, or government, is too heavily involved with private sector interests, instead of focusing purely upon the public’s interests. Self-interest can become dominant. I recognize that public education is not totally pristine, presently, related to financial self-interests being pursued within, but if public education were ever to be transformed into a private market enterprise for the most part, I fear that our nation’s basic tenets based on “we the people” may be diminished. Corporations are not interested in “we the people”; they are interested in profit. Students would be used for profit. Heaven forbid if this nation were ever to foster wars for the underlying profit that would benefit the few; and Heaven, also, forbid if this nation’s children were ever to be used for corporate profit within corporate based schools.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/washington/12contractors.html

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catlady, 1:32 pm

“BTW, would you consider sharing a copy of your developmental history template? I felt super-charged by the mention of it. I have said repeatedly in our RTI meetings that we need to look at the whole picture–the kids we are seeing have had significant problems for years and multiple attempts to address the problems. I would love to lobby for inclusion of something like that.”
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catlady, I would be very glad to share my “Academic Developmental History” chart which I had developed for each student of need in my school, grades 1 -8, about 30 years ago. I believe, since I used it so frequently, that I can recall most of the details of it. It was important that it be only one page, not more, so that the person analyzing the student’s progress, which was charted over many years, could visualize the student’s academic developmental history on one page.

I must take a break from writing for awhile; however. I will respond to your request later this evening on this thread. The Academic Developmental History Chart has ramifications for the need for more of a continuous progress format within public schools, through high schoo, for each student to be able to meet with success throughout his/her educational career. The info needed to fill out the chart is presently quite easy to access via computer technology, which was not available to me, 30 years ago. I had to search through permanent records to gather the information. Moreover, having this kind of readily available computer access to students’ academic developmental histories operates with greater effectiveness within traditional public schools, than within charter schools – which are disjoined from one another – simply because public schools are interconnected, through computer access within systems, and among systems throughout Georgia. Coordination between traditional public schools, regarding this quick academic access of correct placement of, and correctly identified instructional skill need of, individual students, is particularly helpful in a highly mobile society, which is present in today’s world. More later. . .

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@ Ron F

you touched on nearly every one of my concerns about charters. and as we both know, the legislature couldn’t hit water if it fell out of a boat.

I don’t think even the ill informed (cough, cough, Fran Millar) in the legislature would try to cut funding to public education completely. in places like Handcock & Turner counties there just isn’t enough of a student base for this kind of charter madness to work.

moreoever, the rabid ones (cough, cough, Fran Millar) need us functioning as a scapegoat/backup plan for when this insanity fails

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“and frankly, when you bring up Haliburton in this context, it just makes you look like a left of center wingnut.”

Unfortunately bootney, the mention of Halliburton as a private contractor of government services is relevant in this discussion. Premature perhaps, but you’d have to be awfully right of center to defend their actions in sum total over the years. It would do us all well to pay careful attention as we tumble headlong into the private sector as educational service provider to be aware of the potential for similar situations in education. Do you believe companies managing charter schools will be any more transparent and accountable than Halliburton has been? I hope so, but I seriously doubt it. I brought up Halliburton in this thread originally. I’ve been reading of late about the growth of military budgets and how much the private sector has taken over of military functions. What was sold to us as a money SAVING transition hasn’t exactly turned out that way. How do we prevent that from happening in education if we end up with a large percentage of state commissioned charter schools?

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CS@ and Ron F., another funding issue to consider is this: Child A enrolls at a charter school, state funds follow. The County disburses to the charter school the amount of those state funds at the beginning of the fiscal year (Jul 1) before actually receiving the funds from the state. Child A returns to the county system at some point in the school year. The state funds DO NOT return. What happened to “the money follows the child?” This is factual information given to me by a county employee who knows how this works and who I trust implicitly as she is my mother.

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@I Love Teaching, Well said.

@Charter Starter, Not all charters use a lottery system for enrollment. Some do, but many do not. And even a lottery system can be designed to self-select out “undesirables”–if the charter doesn’t provide transportation, parents who can’t (or won’t) transport their child(ren) will be left out; if the charter doesn’t provide the specialized services needed (or expects the traditional public schools to pick up that tab, too), children who need them will be forced aside; children with uninvolved parents or even no parents may be left out; it goes on and on. You see, traditional (imho, real) public schools cannot discriminate against anyone: we take every child in our attendance zone no matter their socio-economic or ethnic/racial background, no matter how involved or interested their parents are, no matter how smart or well behaved they are, no matter if English is spoken in the home or community, no matter how disabled or gifted, no matter how well they have been prepared ahead of time for school, no matter how well fed and clothed they are, et cetera. On top of all that, we also have onerous rules and regulations, required curricula, and, often, far too few materials and educators. When charter schools deal with all of that and succeed, then I will be right there on the bandwagon with you. However, it is highly disingenuous to claim otherwise about charter schools (or other forms of school choice) right now.

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@ Brandy – if you know of a charter violating the law by not conducting a lottery or cherry picking, I encourage you to report it to the DOE’s Charter School Division immediately. Charters are committed to serving children….period. Without qualification. Those of us in the charter sector are committed to ensuring this occurs. Having attended (and audited) many, many lotteries through the years, I can tell you that this is the exception versus the rule.

Also, please, I implore you to go and look at charter school demographics for yourself. You are making assumptions and generalizations that are not supported by data. The DOE has an annual report of charters with this information – read through them all and I think you will see that charters serve EVERY “type” of child.

And by the way, we don’t see any child as an “undesireable.” In my humble opinion, any educator that sees a child as an “undesireable” should not be in education – I know you don’t feel that way, but this isn’t the first time I’ve heard it. I really see that as a cop out charter opponents use anyway. Take KIPP for example – they are serving the SAME population of highly impoverished minority kids – have little to no parental involvement (and don’t “require it”, either), and YET….they outperform by a TON their neighboring schools. WHY? Because of the culture they set, the high expectations, their commitment to discipline and their exceptional commitment to ensuring that every single child achieves….and how they prioritize their resources. This is just one example of many. The question the public should be asking is if they can do it, what should the district be doing to replicate this success?

I’ve been right where you are – in a district school with the top down HOW, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, and WHY. I recognized the opportunity for me as an educator that the charter law afforded and went to the charter sector. You cannot imagine the difference it was teaching in a school where the teachers drove instructional decisions for the students they served (not the county office), where those making decisions about instructional resources understood the population and the unique needs of those kids (versus a district who by virtue of size, must allocate relatively the “same”), and where having discipline seriously addressed rather than brushed under the rug. Could districts do this…perhaps….if they WOULD..and if they would restructure things to provide for school level true autonomy. But they HAVEN’T….they will not let go of central office authority and rest decision making with those who are in the trenches. Charters want to influence more of this and to show that it can be done and can positively impact not only achievement, but also the morale of the instructional staff and engagement of parents.

Tour some charters and see for yourself – go talk to some charter teachers and I think you will be surprised.

As for the involved parents

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Charterstarter: where are all of your charter school loving friends? Hmmm…seems like you are being greatly outnumbered on this topic. I will give you props for such detailed knowledge of charter school issues…it’s almost like you are Jan Jones or Chip Rogers.
I’m beginning to believe that this story has some phone lines burning up this weekend and many politicians going into damage control mode. Where are all those politicians now? Wonder if any of the legislators that caved into the governor on this issue are up for re-election in November. It would be interesting to get quotes from all of those folks now so that voters can make an informed decision in November. John Barge…hired Chip’s brother at GADOE…REALLY?

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@CharterStarter “….If you know of a charter violating the law by not conducting a lottery or cherry picking, I encourage you to report it to the DOE’s Charter School Division immediately. Charters are committed to serving children….period. Without qualification. ”

And yet, you yourself stated, that a Charter school may not be the “best fit” for student X. So even if the school allows them in, that does not mean it will encourage or allow them to stay.

From Twin Cities daily Planet: http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/2012/07/24/cityview-leaves-north-minneapolis-special-education-students-behind

“Last week, the families of 40 Minneapolis students with significant special needs received an unwelcome phone call. The promise that their children would be able to return to their North Minneapolis classrooms when school starts in just over a month would be broken. The children, who have disabilities such as autism and Downs syndrome that make transitions particularly difficult, will not be welcomed back to the one-year-old charter Minnesota School of Science, which took over the district’s Cityview Elementary School in August 2011. The plan called for special education classrooms to stay in the building. Their occupants would remain Minneapolis Public School students in name. A one-year contract obligated MSS to provide opportunities for the high-needs students to mingle with mainstream peers.

By this spring, the district was aware of a number of issues with the relationship between the two schools and the service provided by MSS. The district assured parent advocates that a refined agreement was coming. But on July 9, the charter’s board gave notice that they would no longer provide mainstreaming services to MPS.”

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(Drat those ethics! If we didn’t have to pay attention to those, we could be legislators!)

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