Should state have less say in local schools now that it’s paying less toward them?
Local taxes are now the largest funding source for schools in Georgia, raising questions about the balance of power. (AP Images)
The AJC has a story today that will not surprise local boards of education: For the first time in 16 years, local governments paid a higher share of the cost of public education than state governments.
In 2010, Georgia’s public schools received about 38 percent of their funding from the state, with local government paying about 48 percent. Federal and private sources accounted for the rest, according to the census report. In the past, the split has been about 55 state and 45 local.
The policy question now becomes: How much input should the state have in local education decisions and practices when it pays only 38 percent of the freight and less in high spending districts such as Decatur and Atlanta?
That has been the crux of the charter school battle: Should the state overrule local boards of education — which, in theory, represent the local voters and local taxpayers — and approve charter schools that then draw local funds?
It is always important to note in these discussions that the local money that underwrites schools does not come only from families with children in the schools. It comes from the entire community, childless couples, retirees and singles. I never understand the posters who come on the blog and insist that “It’s the parents’ money.”
Very few property owners in this state pay enough in property taxes to cover the full cost of educating even a single child; it requires a community pooling of resources to fund education.
According to the AJC:
Across the country, 44 percent of public education cost is covered by local governments, with the state paying 43.5 percent and the federal government paying 12.5 percent.
Georgia’s public primary and secondary schools got about 38 percent of their funding from the state, with local government paying about 48 percent. Federal and private sources accounted for the rest, according to the census report, which covers the year 2010.
Taxpayers feed both local and state coffers, but the size of those coffers is vastly different. The shift to more reliance on local government has many believing that the squeeze school districts have faced in recent years is not merely cyclical but a new normal.
“This is huge, ” Georgia Board of Education member Wanda Barrs said during a discussion about public education finances last week. “We are where we’ve never been before.”
The economic downturn reduced state revenue and led to budget cuts in multiple areas, including education. That left districts to rely more on local funding. Many districts, however, are seeing that local funding diminish because it is pegged to property taxes, and property values have sunk.
Legislators said public education has taken a hit in recent years. But so has the rest of state government, they argued.
“State revenue has gone down across the board, ” said state Sen. Fran Millar, chairman of the Georgia Senate’s Education and Youth Committee. “We have reduced funding for education the least. They’ve suffered the least cuts.”
Millar said district officials need to be more willing to make unpopular and difficult choices. “They’re going to have to look at raising millage rates, ” Millar said, adding that districts will also need to consider salary reductions and shrinking central-office staffs.
“There are no easy answers here, ” Millar said. “We don’t have the luxuries we once had. Some of these local systems, they need a reality check.”
Many officials in those districts don’t share that opinion. DeKalb County Schools just completed a long, painful budget process that underscored the tough choices districts face and the tough politics behind those choices. Lay off or furlough teachers? Increase class sizes? Increase tax rates?
“It’s frightening, ” said Eugene Walker, chairman of the DeKalb County School Board. “It’s getting worse. We have increased costs and decreased revenue.”
Walker pointed out that, in 2008-2009, one mill of property tax brought in $22 million. Now, after property values have been hammered in the bad economy, a mill is worth $16 million. That’s a 27 percent drop over four years.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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78 comments Add your comment
HS Math Teacher
July 24th, 2012
1:18 pm
YES
Pride and Joy
July 24th, 2012
1:20 pm
It sounds good in theorry, doesn’t it? If the State of GA pays less than the locals, then the locals should have more power, right? Seems reasonble….except…
Except that in practice, when you give local control to school boards in Atlanta, the corrupt school board will do what is best for it, not the children.
We need more Federal and State oversight in the Atlanta Public and Dekalb County public school systems, not less.
Dunwoody Mom
July 24th, 2012
1:32 pm
In perfect circumstances, the state should stay out of the business of the local school districts. But, then, there is DeKalb….
The state should not be in the business of creating alternate “quasi-private” schools, aka Charter Schools over the objection of local school districts.
Married with (School) Children
July 24th, 2012
1:36 pm
The AJC article quoted above includes this line: “DeKalb County Schools just completed a long, painful budget process that underscored the tough choices districts face and the tough politics behind those choices.”
It sounds like the author of that piece does not read their own newspaper:
http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/dekalb-school-board-rejects-1479032.html
The budget process is not complete when you are still $20 million in the hole!
Fred in DeKalb
July 24th, 2012
2:03 pm
“Millar said district officials need to be more willing to make unpopular and difficult choices. “They’re going to have to look at raising millage rates, ” Millar said, adding that districts will also need to consider salary reductions and shrinking central-office staffs.”
Senator Millar is going to make Grover Norquist upset with statements like this. He also needs to mention this to the DeKalb BOE members that did not want to raise the millage rate nor layoff employees. Given employee compensation makes up about 90% of the budget, increasing revenues need to be a consideration if you want to minimize impact to the classroom.
We also need to revisit the Equalization formulas. How can a county like Gwinnett be a receiving county? This antiquated formula needs to be reevaluated.
To the point of the blog, the Federal government has a lot of say so in local school operations also. Look how much they provide as a percentage of the overall budget.
Don H.
July 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
Perhaps, Maureen, you have trouble understanding taxpaying parents—because so many in your preferred Democrat Party are renters who pay no direct property taxes?
One might hope you could at least understand the growing numbers of taxpayers taking advantage of an option to channel their tax dollars toward aiding private schools and the students hoping to escape failing traditional public schools. It is, after all, THEIR STATE, LOCAL & FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS funding a system many don’t pay into but none-the-less extract benefits from.
Not so oddly, choices are blurred by local school board candidates pretending to be Republican while at the same time accepting endorsements and cash from teachers’ unions—who will demand their future support in blocking education reforms.
Vyper3000
July 24th, 2012
2:19 pm
I have a novel idea: how about we turn over the educational details to – the teachers? A few points to consider:
1.) Most people have that one teacher who made that significant difference in their lives. I’ve never once heard someone say how great an influence that wonderful schoolboard was in their formative years, nor anyone identify a bureaucrat as being the one person that made a positive difference in their outlook on life. There is a reason for this.
2.) It is a truth that the farther a governing body gets from that which they govern, the less in touch or relevant they become. Why then would anyone want specifics dictated from people we’ve never met in a place we’ve never been to children they will never bother to visit? The state should be limited to A.) List the educational goals for the state at large, and B.) Test the results WITHOUT revealing anything other than the topics to the local schools beforehand, and C.) Get out of the way. Instead of teaching the tests, the teachers can then teach the SUBJECTS.
3.) Eliminate the fluffy PC feel-good nonsense that has been injected into the curriculum and teach english, math, history, science, etc. Give the teachers authority in the classroom and let them use corporal punishment. Gice detention to, suspend, or expel students who misbehave and expect the parents to DO THEIR JOB. You know – all the stuff that WORKED when it was done 50 years ago until someone who “knew better” changed it all into the mess we have now.
Edugator
July 24th, 2012
2:24 pm
More local control? Yikes, more local chaos. Funding the schools should be the main priority of the state legislature, not the assortment of pet projects that seems to dominate each legislative session, along with a focus on social issues that play well with the hometown voters. instead, we get repeated austerity cuts and attempts to channel public money into private schools for a select few.
Of course, our schools could do themselves a favor by reducing non-teaching staff and dramatically cutting the pay of those who remain.
catlady
July 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
Except if it wasn’t for the state and (moreso) federal government, many school boards would deny an education to “those people” (whoever is the whipping boy in that county.) All in the name of “wise use of resources,” of course. We have got the rotten “system” we have just because the local school boards were not acting within the law. Some are still not, of course.
Our model seems broken. No one wants money from the feds, but “it’s our money, anyway.” The state also isn’t holding up its end of the deal, denying an adequate education because, “we don’t have the money (we spent it on other priorities, like Go Fish)” yet the state keeps demanding more of the rules it sets be borne at the local level. The local elected people, not wanting to be turned out of office, are largely unwilling to come anywhere near the 20 mil limit*
*more with special permission
At what point is providing an educational opportunity an essential function of our government?
Of course, one way to do more with less is to kick out those who are unwilling to be educated, and who seem determined to drag others along with them. We can probably cut our teaching staff by 25-30% (of course, it will still take the large CO staff to administer, you understand).
Does this sound very negative? Well, I am tired of the SOS year after year, a downward spiral. Teachers are asked to put the children first. Now it is time for the others to do the same!
Vyper3000
July 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
That’s a great idea, Edugator. Dramatically cut the pay of people with college degrees who are already paid a lot less than they would earn in the private sector. Take away the help that a teacher has to keep up with her 150 student load and make her grade all those papers by herself: serves her right for giving that assignment! The teachers that get fed up and leave for better paying jobs working for companies that appreciate them more will just be the bad aggs, after all, and the ones who will stay – you know, the ones who couldn’t get hired anywhere else? – they’ll do just fine. After all, we don’t really need the best and brightest just to teach a bunch of kids, right? Far better for those decisions to be made by politicians in some other city than here at home by educators and parents.
And you wonder why “the select few” (translation – those who attempt to make sound financial decisions and also want to have input into the lives of their kids) are fleeing for those private schools you mentioned….
Tabitha
July 24th, 2012
2:33 pm
How much say-so should the feds have?
BTW, do you think the “high paying districts” like Dekalb and Fulton are getting their money’s worth.
Jefferson
July 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
I’m for 100% coming from the state. Equal funding for students.
jj
July 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
And the Feds fund even less, and want more control than the state. I live in Cobb and pay my Cobb taxes then over $60mm goes to the rest of the state while we lay off teachers. Bring South Georgia farm land up to actual values and they will have plenty of money. (Oh I forgot all of downstate is Democrats who just loath Atlanta until they want our money)
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
” ‘State revenue has gone down across the board,’” said state Sen. Fran Millar, chairman of the Georgia Senate’s Education and Youth Committee. ‘We have reduced funding for education the least. They’ve suffered the least cuts.’ ”
====================================================
Many states, especially those led by Republican politicians, have made efforts to cut back on all public or “government” services, including public education. (It should be noted that ALEC member, state Senator Chip Rogers, is an Ex-Officio member of Georgia Senate’s Education and Youth Committee, which state Sen. Fran Millar, quoted above, chairs.) So, it is not surprising that the state of Georgia has cut back on funding to state programs – across the board – including those to public education. (Cut backs to state programs have been in operation for the past decade in Georgia, even before the 2008 Recession.) In my opinion, those funding cut backs may have much to do with the ideological agenda of many of Georgia’s Republican leaders, as with the admittedly needed budgetary concerns.
The “small government” ideological agenda for Georgia’s educational delivery systems will produce additional cutbacks to Georgia’s traditional public school systems, in the future, if public funds, for educating the young people of Georgia, are allowed to be used for, and by, private schools via vouchers.
Citizens do need to be wary of the intent behind the new amendment to Georgia’s Constitution which will allow the state to approve charter schools over the jurisdiction of local school districts. Rep. Jan Jones, who sponsored that original bill, is also a member of ALEC. See below:
================================================
“Republican Reps. Jan Jones, Brooks Coleman, And Edward Lindsey Sponsored Both Bills. [HR 1162, Georgia General Assembly's website, accessed 5/7/12] [HB 797, Georgia General Assembly's website, accessed 5/7/12]
■Jones Is A Member Of American Legislative Exchange Council’s (ALEC) Education Task Force. [Sourcewatch.org, accessed 5/7/12]
■Lindsey Is An ALEC Member. [Sourcewatch.org, accessed 5/7/12]”
Source for the above information:
http://mediamatters.org/print/research/2012/05/09/how-alec-is-quietly-influencing-education-refor/184156
===========================================
From Jay Bookman’s column entitled, “GOP here looks to match voucher program in La.,” published in the Atlanta Journal-Consitution, on July 18, 2012:
“This is the type of program that voucher proponents in Georgia hope to emulate. Last week, for example, Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers acknowledged that if he had his way, such programs would have been implemented ‘yesterday,’ specifically citing Louisiana as a model. But until full-blown implementation is possible, Rogers and others pursue half steps, such as the proposed constitutional amendment on the ballot this November giving the state the power to create charter schools over the protest of local districts.
It is also consistent with proposals from GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who advocates turning federal aid for schools into individual grants ’so that eligible students can choose which school to attend and bring funding with them.’ Interestingly, the Romney plan avoids the term ‘vouchers’, although that is clearly how such grants would function.
That’s in keeping with the stealthy, incremental process by which this goal is being pursued.”
Edugator
July 24th, 2012
2:55 pm
Vyper, you’re confused. I’m all for paying teachers what they deserve. I want the best and the brightest teaching in the classroom. The non- teaching staff I’m referring to are overpaid administrators both in the school and the county offices, folks with cheesy degrees who simply burden classroom teachers with extra hoops to leap through. I doubt many of them could find employment in the private sector.
I want to see funding focused in the classroom, not on self important educrats.
Just Can' Make You Believe
July 24th, 2012
2:58 pm
@Don H; for the millionth time there are NO!!!!!!! teachers unions in Georgia. We are forbidden to collectively bargain by the state constitution. The same constitution that states Ga. should fund public education. You don’t have to watch “Faux News” 24-7.
Just Can't Make You Believe
July 24th, 2012
2:59 pm
nm
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
3:02 pm
@Don H, 2:42 pm
Your 2:42 pm post, above, addressed to me is a cut and paste, verbatim, of your post(s) addressed to me on the “Suburbs and Charters” thread of this blog. The original post was removed once (yet reposted later on that thread), probably as a result of the astute words of “Prof,” below:
“@ Maureen. Didn’t you state earlier that you’ve introduced a policy that disallows personal attacks by bloggers? Why do you allow ‘Don H.’ to post as he/she did at 11:08 am about Mary Elizabeth (and Ron F.)? Not only is this cruel and age-ist, it is demonstrably untrue as may be seen in Mary Elizabeth’s well-reasoned, articulate posts.”
============================================
I refused to respond to such inanity as you wrote in those posts, and I will not respond to such, in the future. Obviously, my thoughts are threatening to you, and you show the calibre of your mind with your resulting personal remarks regarding me. You have lost all credibility with me, so I see no reason to address anything that you might post, further.
DonnaCountryside
July 24th, 2012
3:04 pm
“Mary Elizabeth dear, why do I get the feeling when reading your frequent and endless posts that I’m reading Ron F in drag?
The teachers’ union, cut & paste shtick comes through clearly enough. THAT connection is obvious. But you also have a definite “Ron” something about you even while the old-lady-in-her-dotage act is too far over the top to be taken seriously.
Have any fessin’ up to do Ron Mary Elizabeth?”
Too funny. I’m an occasional reader and first-time poster but yes, I’ve noticed both sides use this blog as a propaganda platform. Especially the teacher union side. An FAQ on various terms bounced around would be interesting to us newbies — if it’s strictly non-partisan.
Republican landlord
July 24th, 2012
3:06 pm
@ Don H – “Perhaps, Maureen, you have trouble understanding taxpaying parents—because so many in your preferred Democrat Party are renters who pay no direct property taxes?’
Only an idiot or a very poor business person believes this hogwash. If a landlord is not smart enough to include the tax in his rental figure then he doesn’t need to be renting out property.
Pride and Joy
July 24th, 2012
3:07 pm
Vyper3000, you said we should “turn over the educational details to – the teachers?”
In Atlanta how would that look?
School starts at 10:00 a.m. and gets out at 1 p.m. with a two hour lunch.
Do you hire foxes to guard your hen houses too?
Pride and Joy
July 24th, 2012
3:07 pm
Vyper3000, you said we should “turn over the educational details to – the teachers?”
In Atlanta how would that look?
School starts at 10:00 a.m. and gets out at 1 p.m. with a two hour lunch.
Do you hire foxes to guard your hen houses too?
williebkind
July 24th, 2012
3:11 pm
We should make school voluntary!
Vyper3000
July 24th, 2012
3:13 pm
Edugator – my mistake. I absolutely agree with your comments as explained.
Google "NEA" and "union"
July 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
@Just Can’t:
The National Education Association … a labor union … disagrees with you. They have thousands of members here in Georgia and are INSISTENT they are in fact a union!: http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm
All Georgia Association of Educators members pay an extra $168 yearly to belong to the NEA.
Vyper3000
July 24th, 2012
3:19 pm
Pride and Joy, if school in Atlanta starts at 10 and lets out at 1 witha two hours lunch, as you say, might I suggest that we may have found the first problem with Atlanta schools? As for my comments to turning over education to teaches, I a am presuming that the local school system has done its job and has hired actual competant teachers as opposed to persons who wish merely to stand in front of a classroom for a while and collect a paycheck for it. School administration traditionally sees to the actual overall running of the school, i.e., making sure that the teachers are in the classroom competantly teaching. If they are not doing that job, then a general housecleaning follwed by a career fair is called for. The answer is not to hire foxes to guard the henhouse: the answer is to fire the foxes and hire hens who actually lay and make nuggets out of the rest.
Courtney
July 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
Georgia has abandon our schools. It is sad to see our state become a third world country. What do you expect from a legislature that thinks cutting down trees for billboards will create jobs! They want our kids to work at Quick Trip.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
July 24th, 2012
3:38 pm
With all due respect, Senator Walker, when was the last time that you and your board colleagues voted to bring in competent, disinterested, out-of-state auditing firms to perform comprehensive financial and personnel evaluations of the DCSS?
Of course, when was the last time that the GDOE underwent similar analyses?
living in an outdated ed system
July 24th, 2012
3:42 pm
The answer to your question is an emphatic NO.
Prof
July 24th, 2012
3:46 pm
@ DonnaCountryside, July 24th, 3:04 pm.
If you’re only an occasional reader here, then you need to realize several things.
1) The “teacher union side” on this blog consists of posters who are not Georgians, for all teachers in Georgia know that the state Constitution prohibits unions altogether. So you should ask yourself about their motive for lying. Hint: it relates to national political battles being waged over educational funding for public education and whether taxpayers’ money should go to support private schools…the Republican Tea Party, in other words.
If you’re a “newbie” here, you better educate yourself via Google about the educational battles between the liberals and the ultra conservatives now going on in Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, Colorado, as well as some Midwestern states. Don’t expect us to do it for you.
2) Why do you find what Don H. posted “too funny”? Mary Elizabeth is a regular poster who has noted in the past that she taught in North Cobb schools for about 30 years as a Reading Specialist before retiring. Her posts are extended, often learned defenses of the necessity for public education; and she speaks out of her long experience as an educator.
Kira Willis
July 24th, 2012
3:49 pm
Maureen, last summer, there was a round table discussion with Sen. Millar and other teachers/educators from the around the state. I distinctly remember him and the other senators stating that they would revisit the conversations that we had that day.
It’s possible that I was not included in the second wave of discussions, but…
yuzeyurbrane
July 24th, 2012
3:51 pm
Definitely. Local Boards of Education are 1 of most democratic institutions we have. They should have more power. Instead, Deal and his buds are trying to grab more control in order to destroy public education and steer money to private education contractors under guise of charter school “reform”. Just by chance this multibillion dollar industry makes big campaign contributions. . . and I am certain as one could be that Georgia pols will figure a way to get a personal piece of that pie.
Old timer
July 24th, 2012
3:55 pm
Maybe we could cut state and federal control and rules…then get rid of all the supervisors and teachers would have more time to teach. Leave more of the counties money in each county….like Cobb or Dekalb. Other counties might have to increase their taxes. I would like to go back to pre and post ITBS testing. It was fun seeing the growth during the year. Many low children had a “light” come on about 5th and 6th grade which made teaching so exciting.
On another mater, maybe superintendents should not be paid more than the president or the governor of Ga.
Old timer
July 24th, 2012
3:56 pm
Matter
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
4:03 pm
Thank you, Prof, for your words of support at 3:46 pm above, as well as your support on the “Suburbs and Charters” thread.
Readers, I regret that so much focus has centered upon me personally on this thread. Please read and focus upon my post at 2:39 pm on this thread. I put effort in sharing what I wanted communicated into that post. That post has much substance, within, related to the state and local funding of public schools in Georgia.
In terms of interpersonal dynamics, I want to share what I just wrote to Prof on the earlier thread mentioned:
“Please know how very much I have appreciated your words of support, regarding the recent personal attack upon me. Such venom is sad to read, even when I am not the target.
It is my hope that human beings will transcend that level of exchange. Intense negativity pulls down all who read it, both spiritually and intellectually. I have faith that most will rise above that level of communication with others, and it is, also, my hope that people will come to trust more the concept that love, not hate, can transform this world, for the better.”
dbow
July 24th, 2012
4:33 pm
Should it happen, yes. Could it work, yes. Will it happen, not a chance. There’s too much power up for grabs and there’s no way that a government will cede any power unless forced to do so. Back in the good old days when public schools were really public and no one ever heard of a charter school because the public schools where working for the majority of kids, this wouldn’t have been an issue. I went to a city/county run school system and it worked because the majority of the people living their made education a priority. The city next door was run down and poor and the schools were terrible. Now how do you think that happens? If more communities would step up and take care of their own business there wouldn’t be a need for the federal gov’t or any other outside agency to take care of educating it’s residents. Unfortunately we know that some people, if left up to their own devices, would choose to do nothing and even willingly let the gov’t make the decisions for them. I think the term is leaches. Maybe it’s moochers.
The Deal
July 24th, 2012
5:04 pm
Until I moved here, I would have been all in favor of 100% local control, but this is DeKalb, and we need anyone and everyone to step in and stop the train wreck. Actually, the wreck is in progress. We need first responders and clean-up.
NONPC
July 24th, 2012
5:09 pm
Eliminate the fluffy PC feel-good nonsense that has been injected into the curriculum and teach english, math, history, science, etc. Give the teachers authority in the classroom and let them use corporal punishment. Gice detention to, suspend, or expel students who misbehave and expect the parents to DO THEIR JOB. You know – all the stuff that WORKED when it was done 50 years ago until someone who “knew better” changed it all into the mess we have now.
You know, this makes more sense than anyone could possibly believe. The modernization of the classroom has not improved learning or test scores one iota.
Get Educated
July 24th, 2012
5:50 pm
http://www.votesmartgeorgia.com
NTLB
July 24th, 2012
5:52 pm
Perhaps a lawsuit that mirrors the the Lobado vs Colorado school funding lawsuit will get the message across. This public funding lawsuit was initially filed on June 23, 2005 in which the plaintiffs charged the state of Colorado of violating the state’s constitution and underfunding its K-12 school systems by 3 billion dollars. A district court judge ruled in favor of the plaintiffs and found that the state’s funding system is “irrational” is not meeting the funding requirements of the state’s constitution. In addition, district court Judge Sheila Rappaport also accused the state’s system of being “unresponsive” to the growing financial and academic demands continuously placed on schools….Sound familiar???
LarryMajor
July 24th, 2012
5:53 pm
Funding did become an issue with the proposed constitutional amendment, but it shouldn’t have. A state chartered school cannot get any local tax revenue unless local voters approve it.
Curiously, if this “pro-charter school” amendment passes, local voters will lose the authority to override their BOE’s local funding denial.
crankee-yankee
July 24th, 2012
6:14 pm
Hmmmmm…
A nice thought, movement to more local control.
But how far do we let the pendulum swing?
The reason for increased state control was because of all the poor local educational governance in the past.
Then there was the call for equalization because of the wide disparities in funding among the counties.
The pendulum swings. Better funding across the board but more state control.
For the past 10 years it has been swinging back as far as decreased state funding but WITHOUT a decrease in state control.
What we are seeing is poor governance on a more massive scale at this point.
state legislators (lower case on purpose) who cut funding but want to exert more control seem to be the norm now.
I see no chance of that changing until thinking voters take control again.
The problem being, in the interim, we run the risk of going all the way back from whence we came and that is not a positive step.
teacher&mom
July 24th, 2012
6:21 pm
@Kira: I also attended the luncheon and have wondered about Rep. Lindsey’s promise to revisit the conversations.
had enough
July 24th, 2012
6:32 pm
Not if your super is Ed Heatley. He already runs the county like a crazed dictator. Too bad Dallas did not want him
crankee-yankee
July 24th, 2012
6:44 pm
@Kira & @teacher&mom
Does this surprise you?
A politician saying something and then not following through?
We need to remember what has been said & subsequently done when we visit the polls.
Ron F.
July 24th, 2012
6:49 pm
Donna: If you read, many of the posters here are teachers and retired teachers who believe very strongly in the need for public schools. They’re not spreading “propaganda”; they are, like me, concerned about the real reason for many of the reforms that are gaining popularity like a new Ben and Jerry’s flavor amongst state politicians who are controlled by personal agendas and corporate lobbies.
As to the topic of this thread, if the state is only providing 38% of funding, it gets a lot of control for its dollars, doesn’t it? We need statewide goals and a state-provided outline for education. But their control needs to be limited as to how local systems function, so long as those systems are meeting state goals. In systems that are failing, like APS, Dekalb, etc., then the state should have more control than the locals.
C Taylor
July 24th, 2012
6:58 pm
I was also at the lunch meeting and I not surprised at how our thoughts were discarded. How many of those making decisions about public education ever had children in public education?
Ron F.
July 24th, 2012
7:04 pm
Mary Elizabeth: You are to be commended for your grace under fire. I’m glad I chose today to spend time in my classroom beginning the always arduous task of finding everything and bringing some semblance of order to it. Your passion for education is appreciated, applauded, and needed. We truly are teachers for life. It isn’t a job, it’s a lifetime career that doesn’t end when we lay down the chalk for the last time!
Bernie
July 24th, 2012
7:05 pm
Only in Georgia, would the citizenry would have to consider such an absurd question.
Because nothing here is really what it seems or appears to be. One must peel back the facade to see the real sinister ugliness that truly exists in those who profess to be Leaders who truly care about the welfare of all its citizens
Solutions
July 24th, 2012
7:13 pm
As a taxpayer, I urge a 10% pay cut for all teachers, especially in Fulton and DeKalb counties!
fran millar
July 24th, 2012
7:33 pm
Maureen, my comment for raising millage rates was for systems that presently have low rates – certainly not DeKalb. The majority of the DeKalb Board does not understand that it is critical they rebuild the surplus. Otherwise next year will be even worse since property values in DeKalb continue to drop. It is called living within your means – cut payroll starting with the central office bloat.
HS Math Teacher
July 24th, 2012
7:36 pm
If you have a school system where 5 out of 5 students go on to state colleges and regional universities, then the curriculum should be strong enough to meet this need. On the other end of the spectrum, if you have a school system where 1 out of 5 students go to either junior colleges or state colleges, another 1 out of 5 join the military, 2 out of 5 go to technical colleges, and 1 out of 5 dropout and either go to unskilled labor, or walking the streets, then the curriculum should be tailored to meet these needs, or situations.
A good number of poorer schools in the remote rural areas of Georgia do not have an accelerated curriculum to separate students so the productive ones can make significant progress. In these schools, there is only one path to get a diploma, and all these kids are packed in classes together, learning college prep math. This destroys both groups of students in the long run, and it’s wearing down teachers who are working on frayed nerves, coffee, medication, or whatever else. We had separate tracks years ago, and IT WORKED.
If you take a look at the average percent of students who passed the EOCT in Math II this year, it was 54%, which was a 1% drop from last year. If I’m not mistaken, to pass the exam, a student must answer a little over half the problems correctly. Furthermore, if you look at districts passing marks from around the state where there is high poverty, the average passing percentage was well below 50%. This is insane. It’s time to end this social experiment. It isn’t working! This isn’t China, where all the students coming out of school look like no. 2 pencils coming out of a pencil factory.
To be on topic, I would say that any move away from state control is a step in the right direction. When it comes to diploma pathways, the state should set forth some flexible options, and then get out of the way and let prominent, educated, common-sensed, local people – INCLUDING TEACHERS – decide what works best for their schools and communities.
A Teacher, 2
July 24th, 2012
7:40 pm
I am a teacher. I do not teach in DeKalb, Atlanta, or anywhere else in the metro area. I am NOT a member of GAE/NEA. Why do I always get painted with the same brush as people who fit any of those other categories. I also did not vote for Obama, or McCain, for that matter. If DeKalb, Clayton, Dougherty, and Atlanta City want craziness in their schools, why should the state legislate punishment on everybody because of these systems. If I tried to punish an entire class for the actions of a few, people would correctly be up in arms. Why is it okay to have sweeping state, or federal for that matter, laws that effect everyone that were originally designed to reign in a few. Why not just reign in the few??
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
7:41 pm
Ron F., 7:04 pm
Thank you very much for your kind words. Thank you, also, for noticing my “passion for education” and for saying that it is “appreciated, applauded, and needed.” You are so wise to recognize that, for dedicated teachers, teaching isn’t simply a job, but is, instead, a lifetime commitment to serve others which doesn’t end when we “lay down the chalk for the last time.” Being a teacher is who we are.
Teachers hold the future in their hearts, minds, and hands. Teaching is a noble profession. That is why I passionately believe that the public must see the value in sustaining public education, whereby teachers can remain public servants, and not be turned into agents of profit for the mercenary and power interests of others.
There are powerful and wealthy forces within our nation, and state, who are trying to turn education into a “free market” enterprise in which teachers and students would be, ultimately, used for profit. Nevertheless, this state has been able to sustain, in spite of those powerful forces, the viability of public education.
For any legislators who may be reading my remarks, please know that I wanted to serve others with my life when I became a teacher in my twenties. I will be seventy in the fall. I did not seek to accrue personal wealth through my life’s efforts. I wanted to help others reach their potential. I loved every day of my 35 year teaching career. I have come from a long, long line of teachers, going as far back as my paternal great, great, great grandfather. If I were starting my life over today, I would still want to be a teacher, and I still would want to be part of that profession which seeks to bring wisdom, knowledge, and love into this world. I would want to be a public servant of the people. I do not want to see schools made into free market enterprises for profit. That belongs in the business world – not in education.
A Teacher, 2
July 24th, 2012
7:44 pm
@fran millar, So what if you are not in DeKalb, and you do not have a bloated central office, and you are forced to go to 20 mills and have 10 furlough days? What is the system supposed to do then? There are far more systems in this shape than in the shape of DeKalb!
Ron F.
July 24th, 2012
8:03 pm
“Being a teacher is who we are.”
Unfortunately, the state legislature doesn’t understand that, and is willing to discredit that drive for public service in favor of profit-making “competition.” My only hope is that we won’t rush headlong to copy Louisiana until we see the results.
MB
July 24th, 2012
8:09 pm
@ Kira The finance study commission is, it seems, trying to assimilate input from each group associated with K12 education to create a QBE replacement that makes more sense. At each meeting I’ve attended, or heard reports from, they reiterate “flexibility with accountability.”
Some minimal requirements are, sadly, needed, Even in these terrible economic times, school boards are approving the creation of any number of non-student-instruction, fully locally-funded positions (Deans of Students, Director of Football Operations) as they also approve raising class sizes, cutting counselors, media specialists, and parapro and adding furlough days.
Sorry, think the state HAS to stay involved; in fact, I’d argue (ref. DeKalb, Dougherty, etc.) that they need to have higher expectations and more consequences.
Now the federal government.. THAT is another story!
Brandy
July 24th, 2012
8:12 pm
@ME, I also want to offer my support in light of the current, insane and inappropriate, attacks on your character. We may not always agree (okay, we almost always do
), but I can tell that you are the kind of person who makes others want to be great teachers, too.
@Solutions, Why, pray tell should all teachers receive a 10% pay cut? Here in Cobb, we teachers make less than we made 4-5 years ago, even with more experience under our belts. The situation is the same in most, if not all, districts in this state. Oh, and we are not all lying, cheating, slobs off the street who are just in it for the bennies and $$$, as some posters would have you believe. Some of of us–actually many, if not most, of us–are dedicated, caring professionals who did not get into education to get rich–we wanted to make a difference in the lives of our students, just as teachers made a difference in our own lives. We do our darnedest and beyond to impart the knowledge our students need to live successful lives while also ensuring our students pass incredibly flawed tests and also being told endlessly that we are the problem–despite the fact that we spend far less time per year with children than their parents do (teachers: ~1260 waking hours per year; parents: ~3885 waking hours per year) and significantly less time with children over the 1st 18 years of their lives (teachers: ~16380 waking hours over 13 years; parents: ~69930 waking hours over 18 years). We teach the students who show up at the schoolhouse door–we can not send the “dumb” ones back, hand out brain transplants, pick and choice student racial or ethnic backgrounds, make up for a child’s never having been read to or never having bonded with a parental figure, give students a safe and secure home and bed, feed and clothe our students, make our students home lives more stable, ensure that every student comes from a traditional 2 parent family, make certain that our students come from English speaking homes and communities, or ensure that every child’s family is living above the poverty line. My colleagues and I are working harder than you have ever imagined. Don’t believe me? I challenge you to teach in a public school for 1 week, especially in a special education or ELL classroom. Then, report back on how incompetent we educators are and how easy we have it. I would never dream of telling you how to do your job (statistician, it seems) as I am certain you are a professional. Please do not presume to do the same to educators.
Brandy
July 24th, 2012
8:15 pm
Sorry, that should have read “pick and choose”.
I appologize ahead of time for any other errors I might have missed as I was typing on a SmartPhone.
FUBU
July 24th, 2012
8:42 pm
As a TEACHER and TAXPAYER, I urge a 10% pay increase for teachers!
bootney farnsworth
July 24th, 2012
9:09 pm
I’m gonna go against the grain and say yes, as the state abandons its constitutionally mandated responsibility, locals should have more control.
it is their money. its wrong and IMO unamerican to have local taxpayers carry the burden and some fool from the gold dome tell them what do to with their money.
on the other hand, freedom to make more decisions also means more responsibility to suffer their consequences.
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
9:11 pm
@Brandy, 8:12 pm
“. . . I can tell that you are the kind of person who makes others want to be great teachers, too.”
========================================
Thank you for your kind words, Brandy. You could not have said anything that would have pleased me more than the words you posted, above. I hope that I have inspired teachers not to give up in their faith that teaching WILL have a renewal of respect in our nation, to continue believe in themselves, and to know that they are blessed to be the practitioners of one of the most noble professions on Earth.
I offer the poem, below, entitled “If,” by Rudyard Kipling to teachers, everywhere:
IF
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
‘ Or walk with Kings – nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!
———————————————————-
- or Woman, as the case may be.
——————————————————————————–
bootney farnsworth
July 24th, 2012
9:13 pm
I’m really tired of Millar running his yap. if he wants to make “tough decisions”, he can start at home.
once Frannie has cut his staff, taken at pay cut and furloughed himself for 8 unpaid days a year then
and only then
will I entertain his ideas.
bootney farnsworth
July 24th, 2012
9:16 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth
there’s another version I was taught by a buddy of mine who did a tour in Vietnam
basically if you can do all this and not lose your head
you obviously don’t grasp the deep doo doo of the situtation
Mary Elizabeth
July 24th, 2012
9:24 pm
@bootney farnsworth, 9:16 pm
mark
July 24th, 2012
9:47 pm
Preformace based pay for teachers will only work, if the money is there to be paided out. Not many of us “union teachers” are going to be willing to join that effort, if RTT is teated like national board certifed bonuses that were stripped away a few years back. The new norm for public education in funding at low levels will lead many companies out of Atlanta and back up north to those union states with twice the educations with higher taxes, many smart folks are willing to spend. Good luck Georgia.
Brandy
July 24th, 2012
10:15 pm
Too true, Mark. Places that truly desire quality public education invest in it fully–something that is unlikely to occur here in GA. Funny thing is, districts with unions and higher property taxes, often also have higher performing schools. Hmmm….
Fran's friend
July 24th, 2012
10:17 pm
Fran,
Let me first rspond by saying that there are hundreds of overworked and underpaid high quality teachers within this challenged school system.
Based on your comment you think that restoring a “Reserve” account is considered a surplus? Let me give you the definition of a surplus.
“something that remains above what is used or needed.” The key word in the definition is needed. We need more high quality teachers that deserve more compensation instead of cutting their pay, retirements and adding costly benefits to them.
Now let me give you the definition of reserve, as in a cash reserve account for the school system.
a. cash, or assets readily convertible into cash, held aside, as by a corporation, bank, state or national government, etc., to meet expected or unexpected demands.
b. uninvested cash held to comply with legal requirements.
So here is the difference Senator, we do not have a surplus of cash in DeKalb. We have a surplus of “Friends and Family” employees who are robbing our children of their legal right to a public education!
We have a surplus of overpaid, incompetent employees who think they are deserving/entitled to a job based on their familial relations or membership and affiliation to an organization.
What we need is a reserve of cash in our school budget which is required by law to adequately educate our children. We also need a reserve of highly motivated and educated teachers who can overcome the low pay, lower morale and incompetency of our current system who think everything is wonderful in DCSD.
I suggest you go to the voting booth and vote the “Incumbents Out” next Tuesday. Since you live in the very affluent part of Dunwoody, you can only vote for Dr. Speaks and not any of the other school board races.
If you want to make a difference for DeKalb County students, start next tomorrow by advocating for reworking the equalization formula that sends over $40,000,000 annually from DeKalb to Gwinnett. I know you have the best intentions and will work hard to make DCSD a great school system again.
Respectfully,
Your friend.
CL
July 24th, 2012
10:23 pm
more waste, fraud and abuse in DeKalb…Is anyone surprised
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/principal-bookkeeper-under-investigation-after-aud/nP3Rb/
Dred Scott
July 24th, 2012
11:29 pm
Read the truth: http://www.betterGAschools.org
My choice
July 25th, 2012
12:01 am
Get educated on the amendment…..www.bettergaschools.org
Melanie
July 25th, 2012
12:55 am
The state should step up to the plate and put more funding into direct instruction. State should be major funder with local boards doing the administration. All those fake programs and administatrion at the State Dept. of Ed. is totally unnecessary. Wasted money.
Funding education excellence is a long way off in Georgia and getting farther away | Get Schooled
July 25th, 2012
3:31 am
[...] about 60 to 55 percent percent of real costs of education while local communities paid 40 percent. Today, the state is only footing 38 percent of the education tab in Georgia. (It’s important to note that one percentage point represents well over a hundred million [...]
crankee-yankee
July 25th, 2012
6:58 am
Solutions
July 24th, 2012
7:13 pm
Were I to punish my entire class for some perceived wrong a few students committed, not only would I have no support from my administration, but I would have parents crawling all over my back, and rightfully so. I suspect you would be leading that charge. Yet you espouse that very line of reasoning in the reverse. See a problem in the logic?
Pride and Joy
July 25th, 2012
9:20 pm
Let’s take this argument to it’s logical conclusion. If you pay more, you get more control, then people who pay the most property and income taxes should have the most control over the public schools. I pay enormously. I’m taxed to smithereens in both income and property taxes…yet, I have zero say so. Zero control. I can’t vote out the incumbents on the school board because I lack the biggest factor — I’m not black. The blacks overwhelmingly control all politics in Atlanta and I am just one of the few suckers who has to pay for all the greed. Dear Lord, why did I ever buy into that “diversity is good” policy.
I want out as soon as I can sell my underwater house in Dekalb and my underwater house in Atlanta.
Pride and Joy
July 26th, 2012
8:21 am
To Just can’t make you believe: YOu wrote to Don and said “@Don H; for the millionth time there are NO!!!!!!! teachers unions in Georgia.”
You’re right about no teacher’s unions but here in GA the effect is still the same. To fire a teacher is rare and an arduous process. Even teachers here in GA complain that bad teachers aren’t given the boot. So whether or not there is a union in GA or not, is a moot point. The “protections” afforded teachers keep really bad teachers in the system long after they should have been fired. The teaching profession is no different than any other profession in that there are good (Mary Elizabeth) and bad (my kids’ teachers) employees. The difference is, in my industry, if an employee screws up, they’re history. In the teaching profession in GA, if an employee is rotten, they more than likely stay and continue to rot the profession.
Ole Guy
July 29th, 2012
1:11 am
Unfunded/underfunded mandates is nothing new. The question(s) should be 1) who will be answerable/held accountable, and 2) as with the demise of NCLB, will locales have an input as to what works and what don’t. Mandates, from the state level, may or may not be applicable nor workable at particular local systems.
kevin3
August 6th, 2012
10:10 am
For years schools accross America has been at the forefront of major and serious discussions. We have focus on the wrong projects such as this TSPLOST rather than trying to fix our school system. That to me is more important than anything! We have really fallen down here in America…children in Korea continue to go to school year round and are far along than ours are. Is it an individual or personal thing that we can’t fix our school system, is it racism, is it about the (have(s) and have(s) not?) To many schools pose a problem for the GA Education Commissioners or whoever is in charge of the school system; is it about making six figures and bonus rather than looking out for the children…the problems lies somewhere and overall it has to be really addressed with positive actions. Building, knocking down, fixing up, moving children, closing schools etc., it is a complete mess! We have to begun to be honest with ourselves; money has cause a lot of problems and there are other resources that could be used in order to begun correcting our education system! Why not use them.