Is DeKalb waiting for a “budget fairy” to wave away its money woes?
I hate layoffs but am not sure DeKalb County Schools is serving its employees by pretending it can avoid them in this dire budget crisis.
As one parent said after the school boarded 5-2 last night to instruct Superintendent Cheryl Atkinson to find $20 million in cuts elsewhere, “What are they waiting on, the ‘budget fairy?”
The problem is that it is near impossible for the county to cut $20 million without layoffs at this point.
“If they don’t do it now, at some point during the school year, the numbers aren’t going to match up,” Herb Garrett, executive director of the Georgia School Superintendents Association, told the AJC. “It’s going to be pay me now or pay me later.”
The layoff proposal would have affected 120 paraprofessionals, or teachers’ aides, an unpopular option among some parents especially with a school board election around the corner on July 31.
But DeKalb schools may be out of options. It’s unlikely enough teachers will choose to retire or quit to get to the number needed to balance the budget. The district has already agreed to $60 million in cuts to support staff and programming, and may not be in a position to absorb more cuts.
“She’s got to come up with a different plan, one that does not include reduction in force,” board chairman Eugene Walker said before the 5-2 vote against layoffs. Only Tom Bowen and Jay Cunningham voted for the layoffs, with Pam Speaks and Paul Womack absent.
Throughout the budget process, administration officials had been telling board members that they hoped to avert teacher layoffs. Typically, far more retire or leave voluntarily each year than the number of positions cut from the budget.
Walker and other board members said they didn’t think they’d have to lay anyone off when they voted for the budget. But board member Jay Cunningham said he understood that layoffs were a strong possibility. It’s “common sense,” he said. “If you vote for this, this will happen.”
In recent weeks, teachers have been leaving at a rate of about 20 per week, too slow to meet the requirements of the budget cuts. Laying off teachers once school starts will be more difficult emotionally because children and parents will have developed relationships with teachers, Garrett said.
Some teachers who attended Monday’s meeting praised the board’s decision. So did Lisa Lake, whose child attends a Montessori program affected by the teacher cuts. “They’re saying we need to stop and re-evaluate now,” she said.
Avoiding layoffs, however, is just wishful thinking, said David Schutten, president of teachers advocacy group the Organization of DeKalb Educators. He said the board gave false hope and that he expects layoffs eventually, or else the school system will spend money it doesn’t have and wind up in debt next summer, unable to make payroll.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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270 comments Add your comment
Fred in DeKalb
July 18th, 2012
4:49 pm
dekalbite said,
** It’s an opinion forum, and the person(s) that run a blog have the right to filter any comments they want (that’s why they are called the “moderators”).**
I guess you are right again. They do have a right to filter any comments they want. I believe that goes to their credibility of seeking diverse dialogue. It’s a good thing GetSchooled permits that. I guess we’ll have to continue our conversations here.
You and I agree far more than we disagree. We both want the same thing, a better DeKalb school system for its children, today and tomorrow. The children are depending on us to continue asking questions about operations while supporting our teachers.
nanayh
July 18th, 2012
4:56 pm
Most daycares suppliment the state pay and provide free daycare for the children of employees. It is also probably easier to teach Pre-K in a day care than in the public schools. I agree that the program should be moved to the daycares, but the DCSD waited too long to inform the public. They shouldn’t have held a lottery in the first place. Now they must have Pre-K for at least another year and are faced with all of these problems with paying teachers. Didn’t Dr. Atkinson tell Nancy Jester at one of the board meetings that it is not legal to cut people’s pay who make a certain amount? However, it must be legal to cut pay based on a position such as Pre-K because that is what they are doing to us. I suggest that they also cut the pay of people making more than teachers on Dr. Atkinson’s new pay scale by a certain percentage to help the budget and morale of teachers.
The people making more in salary range than teachers include: managers ($66,967-$106,66), coordinators ($54,807.00-$106,606), assistant principals ($61,831-$112,725), principals ($84,638-$118,482), directors ($85,725-$116,994), administrative leadership ($119,908-$122,471) and division heads ($159,885).
dekalbite@married
July 18th, 2012
4:57 pm
“My impression is that the demographics in Gwinnett mean that Gwinnett parents are more likely to be involved and get their children into “special ed” classes than in DeKalb.”
Your impression may be that but do you have data to support your impression. I think the data that DeKalb spends $8,000,000 on 90 non teaching personnel in their special education program to serve 8,000+ students while Gwinnett spends $1,700,000 on 20 non teaching personnel to serve 17,600 students is very interesting. Even more interesting is the achievement rate for special education students is so much lower in DeKalb.
Do you think Clayton County is similar in demographics to DeKalb (except much poorer with every school in Clayton a low income Title 1 school). Clayton spends $452,000+ on 5 Special Education Directors and $221,000+ on 8 Special Education Secretaries. Clayton County has 9 non teaching personnel for special ed to DeKalb’s 90 non teaching personnel for special ed. They have around 4,800 special ed students. Their special ed student achievement results are very similar to DeKalb (see link below) except they don’t spend $8,000,000 on non teaching special ed personnel.
http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=105&PTID=44&CTID=45&Source=Elementary&PID=38&CountyId=631&T=1&FY=2011
Could we use this $8,000,000 in a more efficacious way for the special education students, many of whom spend the majority of their time in increasingly large classrooms where they are assured of getting less and less help from regular education teachers who are overwhelmed with the sheer number of students?
You might want to do a little research and look some of these statistics up to compare DeKalb with demographically similar systems.
source:
state Salary and Travel audit and Georgia DOE
Angela
July 18th, 2012
4:57 pm
@Pride and Joy
July 17th, 2012
10:08 pm
Dekalb teacher moans and groans about curriculum night at school and complains “So on top of everything else, they want us to work 2 extra hours? What a joke!”
It’s two hours, Dekalb teacher. From 4:30 to 6:30 so that working parents can meet their child’s teacher and hear about the education plan.
When do you think they should have it ? From 1:30 to 2:30? At 3 p.m.?
Don’t you understand that parents have jobs and most of them are having to leave work to race to make it at 4:30 p.m. so they can meet you?
Teachers like you complain that parents don’t get involved in their child’s education, yet you whine when parents do…
Do you see how you sound to us?
Honestly, your complaining about having to work all the way to 6:30 makes you sound like a spoiled brat.
Do you wonder, really wonder, why your profession gets little respect?
Just listen to yourself.
Two whole hours….
Sheesh.
*************************************************************************************You and other parents have absolutely no idea what we as educator contend with daily. Yes, we complain, yes, we want parental involvement that is POSITIVE, yes, we have chosen education as a career, yes, for the utmost part of our careers we love what we do. However, we chose a profession with the expectation that we are paid for what we are expected to do and do with love for our profession. Nonetheless, we are constructive citizens paying our way to live a comfortable life. I think that parents and others seem to think that teaching is our lives. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, we have lives outside of our jobs. And, for most educators we have to make strong efforts not to neglect our own families for yours.
We as working citizens be it teachers or others we all work for a pay check bottom line!!!!!!!!!!! I have made this statement repeatedly on this blog: “If you are not on the inside you really have no idea what really goes on.” There are many of you who think you do but please know this-no matter how close you think you are to your child’s teacher or that family member who is a teacher still will never let you know all that goes on.
Disgusted in Dekalb
July 18th, 2012
5:08 pm
I’ve been afraid to say this up to now, but one of my concerns about Denise McGill is her focus on inequity in the system. You don’t have to convince me that there are some poorly run schools in South Dekalb, but a leader who sees the main problem with DCSS as a lack of fairness has a very skewed vision, in my opinion. Sometimes I think it would be a great idea for those of us who are concerned about the county as a whole to take a guided tour of all of the high schools in the County. I’ve read posts that lead me to believe that some South Dekalb parents believe that the parking lots in the schools in the north are paved with gold. Instead, those of us familiar with them know that they have the same rat-infested cafeterias and non-working AC systems as the schools in the south.
The main problem with Dekalb is not a lack of fairness. And it’s not even a lack of funds. It is mismanagement. And I would not vote for someone who thinks otherwise.
nanayh
July 18th, 2012
5:08 pm
@can someone help? No, I have not received any kind of notification whatsoever. The only reason that I know anything about my situation is through following the blogs (Fred, that is why I am so thankful to DSW- it has served as my only source of relaible information about some of these board meetings and what is being decided at them. The news and this blog have not been publishing much about the situation in Dekalb. I do agree, that some of the moderators can get rude, but I just try to ignore the rudeness and beeline for the invaluable information/facts/sources that are often published on DSW). I have heard that at this point the hands of the principals are tied. I think we are stuck teaching Pre-K and will be forced to teach at the state level (approximately $28,000/year) or resign. I do not know anything about the benefits. Are we losing more benefits than other teachers on top of losing so much pay?
bu2
July 18th, 2012
5:25 pm
@Disgusted
I share your concern whenever someone says we need equity without specifics about what that means. A lot of South Dekalb is stuck in the 60s and 70s when minority schools were deprived of resources while the white schools got what they wanted. That’s no longer true. I was shocked at how bad a shape schools in the north side were when I moved here. “Equity” often means destroying anything good to bring everything down to the lowest common denominator. There’s a zero sum mentality that if something is better, it must be because it takes from somewhere else. That zero sum attitude pervades DSW2.
Angela
July 18th, 2012
6:06 pm
@bu2,
A lot of South Dekalb is stuck in the 60s and 70s when minority schools were deprived of resources while the white schools got what they wanted.
******************************************************************************************************************
That is still true however, not in the sense that the southside thinks or even thought. Please keep in mind that the northside parents are willing to do what it takes to get things done. On the south end most of our parents would rather come to the school and disrespect the teachers and other staff. I have been on the southside for over 13 years and I have yet to see a parent come to the school and take their child to the school library to read a book with them, research an assignment, check out a book with their child, etc. These are the types of things that happen on the northside. If you are speaking of any schools on the northside that don’t have what is needed I can assure you that they are schools with a very high population of other cultures of students verse Americans. And, the reason for that is because for the most those parents don’t know what to do.
The only time you can get parents to come to the school for anything on the southside is if their children are on stage dancing or doing something that is totally unrelated to academics. Oh, don’t let me forget when there is free food.
Internet-Libertarian
July 18th, 2012
6:32 pm
@Angela,
I agree that the cultures are different but generally speaking the tax money spent on the schools is the same. Let’s not forget DeKalb School of the Arts has one of the best music programs in the country and Arabia Mountain has the best rated facility in the county (Facility Condition Assessment Reports and Data http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/vision-2020/reports-and-data ). This while Dunwoody High School couldn’t get whiteboards since the construction until this summer.
Married with (School) Children
July 18th, 2012
6:33 pm
dekalbite@ 4:57 pm: “I think the data that DeKalb spends $8,000,000 on 90 non teaching personnel in their special education program to serve 8,000+ students while Gwinnett spends $1,700,000 on 20 non teaching personnel to serve 17,600 students is very interesting.”
Your data for Gwinnett strikes me as bogus. Gwinnett has 123 schools; does each “non-teaching personnel” really cover 6.15 schools and/or 880 students each?
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
July 18th, 2012
7:08 pm
@RENT “@ILove(GettingPaidFor)Teaching: All who disagree with you are “trolls?”
No. I did not say that – as you are fully aware. I disagree with many posters here. I don’t consider them trolls because they are offering their opinions in a manner which shows they truly care about the situation. However, when you throw out smug comments about “fat & lazy public school teachers and union types…” then you are trolling, IMO. All that does is try to push emotional buttons. Such childish name calling adds nothing to the dialogue but negativity and undermines any position you might take. Oh, and please use my proper username. You “cute” little play on my name is highly insulting (which, of course, you meant it to be) and once again, shows me you are not to be taken seriously.
“The rest of us viewed the film Waiting for Superman and were revulsed. But not you, right?”
I work in the system. No one dislikes the problems in the system more than good teachers who are struggling to do what is best while dealing with that system… however, I also know enough to recognize that “Waiting” only tells part of the story – the part that supports its premise and intent.
@P&J “just think teachers don’t realize that or don’t want to accept it.
Good gracious, it’s called the great recession.
We who are overworked are the lucky ones…we are employed.”
No, it is not. This has been going on for far longer than during the “great recession” for teachers. Maybe it is more a case of the rest of you getting a taste of what teachers have been dealing with since NCLB was put into place.
Dekalb sounds like a mess. I can only wish the parents; students and my fellow teachers stuck in that system the best of luck. Stay strong.
Dunwoody Mom
July 18th, 2012
8:49 pm
@dekalbite, a blog that limits the “dialogue” to viewpoints that the moderator agrees will basically become irrelevant in time. It is only through open dialogue that true conversation and results can come to pass. If DSW2 is going to be a blog whereby the moderators will delete posts and disallow discussions from certain individuals, then that needs to be a disclaimer on the blog.
Veteran Teacher
July 18th, 2012
9:51 pm
Sometimes systems use “early retirement” options to offer teachers and/or employees with 25+ years to retire early. There would need to be an arrangement with the TRSGA and the school system to supplement the extra monies. This might be a way that Dekalb could get teachers with higher pay to retire early.
Anonymous
July 18th, 2012
10:19 pm
Regarding the pre-K teacher issue, at the first part of the last two-part Board meeting on the RIF, Dr. Atkinson spoke plainly that all of our pre-K teachers are K-5 certified and that they couldn’t just be forced to continue to teach pre-K at the (greatly reduced) state salary. Since I’m not a teacher I didn’t understand the ramifications, but what I thought is that those pre-K positions would be RIF’d and then the pre-K positions at the new salary would be posted. Current pre-K teachers could apply for those but would also be eligible for any other K-5 openings.
However, I think this is probably a moot point now. If DCSD can’t RIF pre-K teachers then they can’t really cut their salary to the state funded amount.
In addition, since there is a hiring freeze now, that further complicates things.
David Shutten was at both parts of the RIF Board meeting so he should be able to clearly explain what Dr. Atkinson said. It would probably be productive to contact him or HR rather than just worrying.
nanayh@Anonymous
July 18th, 2012
10:58 pm
Thank you for the report. I can’t tell you how much it eases my mind to be told a little of what was said at those meetings. I was unable to attend that meeting or find out anything pertaining to Pre-K through news sources. I did put two and two together to figure out the RIFs the media referred to were Pre-K teachers.
Dekalbite@Married
July 18th, 2012
11:46 pm
“Your data for Gwinnett strikes me as bogus. Gwinnett has 123 schools; does each “non-teaching personnel” really cover 6.15 schools and/or 880 students each?”
I just counted them:
Elementary – 81
Middle – 26
High – 26
Total – 133
http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=111&PID=62&PTID=69&CountyId=667&T=0&FY=2011
If you doubt the special education non teaching numbers, I will refer you to your post:
Go to “Salaries & Transportation Reimbursements” section on:
http://open.georgia.gov/
Surf over there and specify the dekalb school board. Once it loads page 1 of its search results, click the export to CSV button at the bottom of the page. That will let you save the file (salarytravelreport.csv) to your computer, allowing you to import it into your spreadsheet.”
Now do a sort on column B (job title). Scroll down until you reach Special Education Specialists. Copy and paste the Special Education Specialists rows into a new Excel page. Look at the number of Special Education Specialists and then use auto sum to calculate the expenditure on this group.
I urge readers and commenters to verify these figures for themselves. That’s the purpose of providing links to credible sources.
BTW – Gwinnett is a model of efficiency. The dictatorial style of their long time superintendent notwithstanding, they produce good student achievement even in their low income areas. Even while their low income areas have been steadily increasing, they have remained steady in terms of making adequate student progress. Minority and low income students have a much better chance of good to high student achievement in Gwinnett schools than in DeKalb schools. That’s called equity.
Dekalbite@Dunwoody Mom
July 19th, 2012
12:21 am
“a blog that limits the “dialogue” to viewpoints that the moderator agrees will basically become irrelevant in time.”
You would think that, but this has been said about DeKalb Watch for a long time – DSW as well as DSW2. Yet the comments are running to the very high numbers therefore the page hits must be much higher. It is an interesting juxtaposition when one moderator expresses a completely different opinion from another moderator, both commenting as dekalbschoolwatch. Since it is a busy opinion forum on the Internet run by non paid volunteers, I’d say they are not very worried about being relevant.
Dunwoody Mom
July 19th, 2012
8:15 am
While I loathe the management style of Alvin Wilbanks and question the makeup of the school board (it does not reflect the demographic of Gwinnett County), you can’t help but wish there was such calm in DCSD. Gwinnett is able to offer continuity across its schools because they are so large – high schools can be 3,000+ students. Do we want that in DeKalb? #1 – I am not wild about 3,000 students, but with high schools with 1,000 students you just can’t offer everything that may be needed/desired in a school and #2 – there will not be the money to even build these type of schools for years because SPLOST has been tied to specific projects and there is not much flexibility. We have elementary, middle and high schools of all population sizes. Parents and communities railed against closing their schools even when presented with facts that closing and consolidating would provide more education opportunities for their children. Alvin Wilbanks and the Gwinnett BOE? When they decide to close/consolidate/redistrict, well, it’s basically a done deal. There is no wimpiness involved. Unfortunately, the education our children in DCSD is not the #1 Priority of our BOE, so we end up with schools that cannot and do not serve our children well educationally speaking.
Another item to remember is the possible/probable overcrowding of high schools in the South part of the county due to the end of AYP transfers. There are high schools in that area that have traditionally lost hundreds of students to AYP receiving schools. Those students will not be staying in their home schools. Some of these schools will most likely be overcrowded in the coming years and the only relief will either be redistricting, portable classrooms or converting Arabia Mountain into a traditional high school.
Fred in DeKalb
July 19th, 2012
9:22 am
Dekalbite, some might interpret your comments as you being an apologist for the moderators at DSW. As you stated, it is an opinion blog and that is my opinion. Ironically when I attempted to point out how Title 1 works (along with correcting several misconceptions that were posted) I was labeled an apologist for the administration though I was simply providing factual information.
I agree with Dunwoody Mom that for the sake of transparency, they should add a disclaimer to the blog that they may disallow discussions or posters. It does not take away from the nuggets of factual information or personal insights that are shared.
Dekalbite@Fred in DeKalb
July 19th, 2012
12:40 pm
No apologist for the moderators at DSW. It’s their blog. They can delete comments (I’ve had some deleted) and send comments to spam (some of mine have ended up there as well). They are not a business. If you do not like DSW, don’t click on it and give it a webpage hit. You are free to do that. No one makes you go to a webpage.
Crawford Lewis
July 19th, 2012
1:53 pm
I personally thing DeKalb is waiting to get hit with a major CLASS ACTION lawsuit if it does not honor the contracts it offered all of its teachers at the end of the school year…..forget the budget fairy….
Crawford Lewis
July 19th, 2012
1:55 pm
Maybe the attorneys who are suing about the 403B Matching funds can take this case as well…..I am sure there are some attorneys out there paying attention to this spectacle….
can someone help?
July 19th, 2012
5:17 pm
David Schutten is of NO HELP to Pre-K teachers. When asked anything pertaining to the program he would state that he doesn’t know, turn his head and walk away! A friend just texted and said that he has commented that the Pre-K teachers have chosen to be in Pre-K which is NOT TRUE! I have been told by my principal that I have to wait for a letter from the county for information about my position and salary with the county. The principals are not to say anything and apparently not being told too much anyways. When I went to ODE last year after being put in Pre-K when I was told I was going to first grade they told me that the principal can put you anywhere they want because it is their building. This year I was told I was going to Kindergarten but now as per the county, I cannot be moved from Pre-K. I am being FORCED to teach Pre-K…not choosing to teach Pre-K. I am not the only Pre-K teacher in Dekalb that is experiencing this problem either! My question about the Fulton County Pre-K teachers is…are they certified teachers? Pre-K teachers do not have to be certified…it was Dekalb’s choice to have all certified Pre-K teachers. My contract is the same contract as every teachers and does not say I am a Pre-K teacher it says I’m a DCSS teacher! Who will be filling the Kindergarten classroom that now has to be filled while I lose my pay? Why do they not place the Kindergarten teacher that is currently there is Pre-K that has way less years than me and taught Pre-K previously at a day care and does not have the honors that I have? I can’t wait to c this letter I’m supposed to be receiving cuz it will be given to an attorney and trust me it will not be an attorney from ODE or recommended by David Schutten!
Dekalbite@can someone help?
July 19th, 2012
7:06 pm
It looks like the Fulton County 2011-2012 Pre-K salaries are now adjusted to the state level for new hires. Certified Pre-K teachers keep their salary level, but they have 21 days shaved off their school year with a reduction in pay commensurate for the 169 days they work:
http://portal.fultonschools.org/departments/Human_Resources/Documents/Salaries%202011%20-%202012/FY12_PreK_Schedule.pdf
Weekly Reader (7/20) | Leonard Presberg
July 20th, 2012
3:10 pm
[...] of educational failures, Doughtery County is the poster child. And more on DeKalb BOE’s budget woes and how hard it is to find solutions. But the State of Georgia certainly isn’t [...]
Fred in DeKalb
July 20th, 2012
3:50 pm
DeKalbite, given we are going to the 2012-2013 school year, I’m not sure if the above information is still relevant. Below is the link for the upcoming school year. Ironically there are more day.
http://portal.fultonschools.org/departments/Human_Resources/Documents/Salaries%202012-2013/FY13_PreK_Schedule.pdf
Did they only run Pre-K for 169 days in FY2012? This is what I mean by sharing data without the context.
GTCO-ATL
July 20th, 2012
3:59 pm
Fred in DeKalb – the BOE had nothing to do with the decline of property values? Ask any Realtor what the number one draw to a neighborhood is for first-time homebuyers… the school district. Nuff said!
Dekalbite@Fred
July 20th, 2012
10:54 pm
Looks pretty much the same as my post – Pre-K teachers from 2011 grandfathered in with pay. New teachers get state base. Only thing new is they now work 179 days. $1,500 more in pay for 10 more days for a certified teacher who is new to Pre-K in Fulton County.
Apparently, they only ran it for 169 days in Fulton this past year according to the link I provided. The point is they are now hiring Pre-K teachers at state base salary levels.
Not sure what your point is.
Don’t really see your point.
Fred in DeKalb
July 21st, 2012
9:46 am
Dekalbite, I’m not sure the context of your point was clear. Yes, you shared a link on the Fulton website that indicated what the State Pre-K guidelines were but is that what Fulton actually delivered? DeKalb ran its Pre-K program as it had in previous years.
You also shared FY2012 information and it probably would have been more helpful to share FY2013 information, as I provided. To help with the contest, this link is also helpful,
http://www.decal.ga.gov/Documents/Attachments/FY2013%20Rates.pdf
According to this, the state funded Pre-K salaries for credentialed and certified teachers is $31,566.80. I could not find the FY2013 state salary schedule for teachers but this is what was allocated for 1st year teachers in the FY2012 schedule. Again giving more context to the data that can be found via the internet.
Something else you may want to share with friends at DSW, the Gwinnett budget for FY2013 can be found at,
http://www.gwinnett.k12.ga.us/gcps-mainweb01.nsf/677FD182198D2099852579E4004A421E/$file/FY2013BudgetBookforweb.pdf
I find it interesting that some Board members want more details and specifics that what this provides. That suggests they want more input on day to day operating functions, which is not their responsibility. That is probably what SACs warned Nancy Jester about the questions she asks.
Fred in DeKalb
July 21st, 2012
9:54 am
GTCO-ATL, try telling the rest of the country that our BOE not the federal government (relaxing laws about home loan qualification requirements), Wall Street (lobbied for those changes and made money off those that got loans with bad products offered) and our legislature (changed law to allow foreclosures to be factored into home valuation) are the reasons for the financial crisis we are experiencing and see what reaction you will get. Home values in neighborhoods containing stronger academic schools were higher prior to the crisis and remain that way.
Why is it hard to some people to acknowledge reality?
Dekalbite@Fred
July 21st, 2012
3:04 pm
I’m missing your point. Starting salaries for certified PreK teachers in Fulton are $31,000+ in the updated file you linked to. Nice to know they added the days back on, but those added says are low paying for a certified teacher.
Is DeKalb waiting for a “budget fairy” to wave away its funds woes? Electric Firing System | fire control system
July 21st, 2012
3:15 pm
[...] Is DeKalb waiting for a “budget fairy” to wave away its cash woes? He explained the board gave false hope and that he expects layoffs ultimately, or else the college program will commit income it doesn't have and wind up in financial debt up coming summer, unable to make payroll. … for the following two many years, as a substitute of furlough days take away … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Dekalbite@Fred
July 21st, 2012
3:16 pm
Parents don’t pay a premium to live in an area that has an underperforming school. They will pay top dollar to live in an area with that has a high performing school. Look at the modest ranch homes that are zoned into Oak Grove and Fernbank that go for hundreds of thousands. The more you school system provides uneven opportunities and results, the more uneven the home prices. Schools have become very much about schools and schools are entangled with real estate. DCSS has provided a very uneven educational experience for students so they are responsible for making a bad market much worse. Even retired citizens are starting to understand that.
Fred in DeKalb
July 21st, 2012
4:37 pm
Dekalbite, glad to see you are still reading this blog. To your point at 3:04, I merely wanted to point out that the salary for for credentialed and certified teachers was the same as the starting salary per the state schedule for first year teachers. To the second point at 3:16, that has ALWAYS been the case with respect to housing prices. The BOE has nothing to do with where people choose to live however they have an obligation to ensure all children get a quality education. My contention is many first time lower income home owners were probably more likely to purchase homes in areas where schools were not as strong. Due to circumstances beyond their control, many found themselves in foreclosures which further drove down home values in the surrounding area.
Please suggest to those at DSW that they should read Board Policy GBKA: Professional Personnel Lay-Off. My interpretation is that it should answer the question regarding how Pre-K should be handled. I can elaborate on my interpretation if you’d like. It also discusses what the superintendent is supposed to present to the BOE which RIFs occur. This goes back to my earlier point to Nancy is asking for detailed information that is over and above her duties as a Board member. While she seems like a hero to some, she may cause problems with SACs due to her level of questioning. Same goes for Don based on statements he made in his blog.
Dekalbite@Fred
July 21st, 2012
11:08 pm
The administrators drive the success or non success of a school system. If that is not true, then we need only only a few administrators, and we can run our Central Office with 1 superintendent and a few secretaries on the instructional side.
The truth is that the more low income schools you have the more highly qualified teachers and small classroom sizes matter. This administration has not made attracting highly qualified teachers a priority, and they have increased class sizes instead of decreasing them. They have made decisions based on employing friends and family. This seems the norm for them, but it has been devastating for a student body that has grown poorer and more in need of good leadership.
Your idea of being leaders without taking the responsibility for success or failure of an organization has not worked for our students. If you cannot move students forward, then you need to step out of the way.
Fred in DeKalb
July 22nd, 2012
7:46 am
Dekalbite, unfortunately here is the point where we begin to split again. I believe administrators play a key role in the success of a school system however I also believe that the decision to learn and participate in the learning process ultimately is the responsibility of each student. Not every student graduated during the glory days of this school district. Unfortunately we don’t have data to validate it. Because the metro area had three auto plants, many who were not cut out for school yet had a good work ethic were able to find jobs at the plant or one of the other places that needed good workers that could follow instructions (some probably got jobs through a friend or family member). Many of these people became good tax paying citizens that made contributions for making this a better place to live.
DeKalb had many students that did well academically and went on to do great things. The media did not talk much about Joe Six Pack who did not graduate but still did well. DeKalb (the affluent bedroom of the metro Atlanta area then) did very well, especially when compared to the rest of Ga, which was still primarily rural. This is not to demean the accomplishments of anyone but simply point out how many viewed things back then.
Based on the national statistics one uses, it shows that high school graduation rates peaked in the late 60’s/early 70’s. There was a downward trend for several years however it has been going up. A term completer has also come up, measuring those who either graduated high school or obtained an alternative credential. For consistency I’m still looking at high school graduate rate but merely pointing out that with all the data available, it is possible to take some out of context. How we measure the high school graduation rate varies and that has also raised questions about the validity of some of the data we’ve seen. My overall point is despite the challenges DeKalb is facing and taking into consideration the significant demographic changes over the past 30 years, looking at socioeconomic, family makeup and racial demographics, students are still progressing. I am NOT satisfied with the current progression rates.
There should be accountability for those in leadership positions, especially when the methods for helping students move forward do not work. This is why we see such high turnover of superintendents in urban districts 2-4 years), despite the high hopes and hoopla that occurs when they are initially hired, the reality of the challenges of teaching in urban districts comes to fruition. Every child can learn but the measures currently used are based on the same standard, regardless of where they began the school year. I understand the growth model will become the new measure (something I’ve been advocating for years, at least as a companion measure) for student performance. Schools that historical perform poorly on the CRCT will have a chance to demonstrated how much they have learned during a school year, regardless of where they started. I’ve contended this measure provides more information that can help diagnose the strength and weaknesses within each student. By research I’ve done, I understand several states use this (North Carolina being one) with positive results.
I believe responsibility also belongs with the students and their families. I don’t believe you subscribe to that thought though I know many on these blogs believe that. I’ve seen many great leaders over the years implement learning programs that have worked miracles for some however because the did not reach everyone, they along with their programs were deemed ineffective. Factor in the loss of jobs which exacerbates the real struggles many families have and the rise in single parent households (I believe children do best in two parent households even if the parents are not married but actively involved) play a contributing factor to student performance and the resulting measures. Of course there are exceptions but looking at data and observing my community over the years has shaped my conclusions.
I enjoy your posts and still believe we agree on the key issues. We are different people and our life histories have shaped our perspectives. I respect our difference as I know we are both working, in our own ways, to make this a better place to live. I wholeheartedly believe there is enough blame to go around when we consider where this school district is today
Fred in DeKalb
July 22nd, 2012
7:52 am
I should also point out that Dr. Atkinson will not succeed using the current measures of student progress. I believe she will have a better chance for success using the growth model as a measure. Whether she has the chance to see this success will be based upon the community supporting her initiatives and demanding that our Board member focus on oversight and not operational issues. The culture in DeKalb unfortunately has evolved into an environment where everyone thinks they know what is best for our school system (or there particular schools) and does not hesitate to say so. Did you have as many helicopter parents in your classroom when you taught?
Dunwoody Mom
July 22nd, 2012
8:57 am
I’ll start with this caveat, which should be obvious to all, no one likes the DeKalb Budget that was approved. It again, put all of the onus on the teachers, and ultimately our students. HOWEVER, this budget, along with the RIF items, was approved by the BOE. For the Board to now say, well, this is not acceptable, is troubling. #1, the school system is now dealing with an unbalanced budget (not allowed), #2. The BOE’s inability to allow the budget THEY passed is also troubling, and I guess, with this BOE, par for the course. The lack of action by this BOE has basically put our schools in chaos mode right now.
I am trying to locate one of the old SACS documents to the school district. I believe that in one of these documents, the BOE was told that once they make a decision, they need to move on and implement that decision. We all have our issues with SACS’ lack of inaction, but maybe this time around, this latest BOE nonsene will get their attention.
DeKalb Inside Out
July 22nd, 2012
11:41 am
Good Morning @Dunwoody Mom.
The BOE is full speed ahead with the approved “budget”. The RIFs to which you are referring are new. Ms Jester has an extremely enlightening blog post at http://WhatsUpWithThat.NancyJester.com/2012/07/19/budget-discussion/ shedding light on this confusing issue.
Fred in DeKalb
July 22nd, 2012
11:53 am
Amen Dunwoody Mom! I believe they have not only put the school system but the employees that may have to be RIFd in a very bad position. It won’t provide enough time to handle the logistical planning for the start of school along with not providing ample opportunity for impacted employees to find another job. The collectively BOE is out of compliance in not having a balanced budget. That includes those that voted against the budget. I hope the state issues a warning to them to either make the tough decisions or requests their immediate resignations.
Please take a look at the Board policy I referenced at 4:37 PM, GBKA: Professional Personnel Lay-Off. Section IV mentions the package the superintendent provides the Board if a RIF is implemented. It does not mention detailed information about employees, the kind of thing Nancy and Don have been requesting. This is the kind of questioning that SACs has already commented about to the Board, getting too involved in day to day operations. I also interpreted that when all things are equal with all employees, seniority with the school district can be considered.
Please share this with others since policy governs how the school system is to be run, not opinions of how we think it should. Since those on DSW don’t welcome the information I share, maybe teachers who are wondering about their continued employment can use this and other policies to determine their status.
Internet-Libertarian
July 22nd, 2012
12:12 pm
@Dunwoody Mom and @Fred
The BOE is full speed ahead with the approved “budget”. The RIFs to which you are referring are new. This confusing issue is discussed by Ms Jester at WhatsUpWithThat NancyJester.
Dunwoody Mom
July 22nd, 2012
12:30 pm
Fred, I’m really torn on this issue of the board asking questions and wanting answers. If the BOE had asked more questions and had not just rubber stamped everything Crawford Long put before them or had not seen to ask what were the justifications for the budget it brought forth, maybe the school district would not be in the financial distress it finds itself in now. I guess there is a fine line in requesting information and getting involved in day to day operations of the school.
Fred in DeKalb
July 22nd, 2012
1:03 pm
Dunwooy Mom, your comment is fair. There has to be a balance. I can understand and appreciate high level questioning, i.e. is there measurable and verifiable data regarding the student outcomes with this new instructional program, how do our staffing numbers compare for with school systems that have similar demographics, how can we ensure we are communicating effectively to our community and parents, etc. I think our Board gets in trouble when they ask detailed questions, i.e. are we verifying that free lunch applicants really qualify, may we see a list of the employees that will be RIFd along with their compensation information, who do you plan to hire for x job, can we get an administrative transfer to this family, etc.
If they collectively don’t trust the superintendent to run the day to day operations, they should come to a mutual separation agreement. Otherwise they need to give the superintendent (whomever that is) the ability to do their job while providing meaningful oversight. Board members should also defer citizens to the proper escalation path when there are questions about school operations. I’ve heard some in my part of the county compare her to Dr. Brown in that she is making the tough decisions that may be ruffling some feathers because it is contrary to the DeKalb way. I’m not sure any superintendent can be successful with this Board, even Jim Cherry. Then again, Jim Cherry probably would not put up with half of the foolishness.
Internet-Libertarian
July 22nd, 2012
1:49 pm
1. The board approved a reduction in force on April 27, prior to the budget being passed. Many teachers were “non-renewed” as the school year came to a close because of over-staffing in their particular area (PE, music, etc.).
2. Subsequently, teachers were given contracts. The “new” RIF plan would terminate teachers that were given contracts. Those teachers would be entitled to fair dismissal hearings, etc. This further compounds problems with our legal fees.
3. The “budget” was passed, June 20 – and the Board was explicitly told that no further RIFs would be needed. The administration was clear on this. The BOE was told that budget cuts and the normal rate of attrition would provide for the absorption of all remaining teaching/para personnel without further RIFs. (Ms Jester voted against the budget and millage increase.)
4. The Board was not provided a detailed budget at the time of the vote. The only documents provided were a list of cuts and a list of increases in fixed costs that had not previously been budgeted.
5. The administration drives the budgeting timeline. The preparation was delayed in an unprecedented manner. Some of these delays were avoidable, some were not.
Crawford Lewis
July 22nd, 2012
10:26 pm
What I find so disgusting is that Dr. Atkinson paid $300,000 to commission a study to find out that DeKalb had hundreds of extra administrators and only cut 70 positions. If she was going to ignore their recommendations, she could have saved the money and used it on the teachers she is trying to layoff. Common sense should tell you that if you over staff your organization by 300 people year after year then yes eventually you will run out of money. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! So now the Chickens have come home to Roost in DeKalb and they are looking to balance their budget on the backs of teachers. Is anyone surprised that they have ran out of money?
Fred in DeKalb
July 23rd, 2012
7:30 am
Crawford Lewis, perhaps you have not seen the many posts I provided to Dekalbite regarding the restructuring done with the Central office. The current staffing level for the Central office is under 825 from its high of over 4,000. In fairness, then number was high because many of the positions were improperly coded as Central Office when in reality, they were school based positions. An example is the Title 1 teachers. A synopsis can be found at:
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/www/documents/budget/central-office-positions-synopsis.pdf
This is a classic example of Dr. Atkinson inheriting a problem (bad data) and rectifying it however no one wants to acknowledge it. Common sense says that one of the first things anyone should do is make sure the data you are using to make decisions is valid. Otherwise you will continue to make decisions that could negatively impact you in the future. Isn’t that what we found out with the budget? In fairness, this is the kind of reality to those at DSW will never acknowledge because of their agenda. The bad data was not accumulated over night but over the life of this school district.
Crawford Lewis
July 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
Fred, if you notice in my post I did not do any central office ranting and raving because yes Dr. Atkinson did allegedly shift those resources to back to the school house. Many of these protected positions and sacred cows now sit in the school houses where they have resumed their daily activity of doing nothing all day besides accumulating their next on-line degree. Bottom line is that no matter where these F&F are placed or hide we are simply overstaffed. I do not trust the DeKalb Central Office to police itself. Such arguments to me are a waste of time. I will however continue to follow the money as it does not lie and which DSW has done a wonderful job at reporting.
Fred in DeKalb
July 23rd, 2012
2:23 pm
Crawford said,
**I do not trust the DeKalb Central Office to police itself.**
**What I find so disgusting is that Dr. Atkinson paid $300,000 to commission a study to find out that DeKalb had hundreds of extra administrators and only cut 70 positions.**
**if you notice in my post I did not do any central office ranting and raving because yes Dr. Atkinson did allegedly shift those resources to back to the school house.**
Do you think these statements are in conflict? You don’t trust the central office, you complain about money spent on an independent personnel audit (one that those on DSW rightly requested) then half heatedly acknowledge that changes were made by suggesting the changes were *allegedly* made. When the report referred to administrators, many were in the Central Office. Many people have been either RIFd, reassigned or demoted. Several reassigned and demoted will be doing so at a lower pay rate I don’t know the extent of the RIFs but we should know more once the HR Report during the August meeting is posted.
There is a LOT of good information at DSW however those that run it lack humility. They want blood however forget that there can be collateral damage. Several good and long time employees have lost their jobs This happened when they cut the drivers education and media departments a few years ago. There are a few people that kept jobs even though they probably did not deserve to but a lot of non producers lost jobs too.
If you think that changes were not made to the Central Office in accordance to the link provided, you should follow up with SACs or the State BOE with your proof. There is an independent forensic audit on going (something else that those on DSW requested) that should help Dr. Atkinson understand the finances, among things. Based on what she has done thus far, I expect her to take action on the results it provides. I have a feeling it will reveal that special interests throughout the county got far more funding that everyone assumed. No proof, just a guess.
Something to consider, Dr. Brown requested a Personnel Audit so that he could understand the different job classifications and pay scales in the school district. He knew there were too many, it was a problem and was ready to make changes. He had already begun reassigning excess employees in the Central office to schools. He never got to finish that job. Do you wonder why?
Dekalbite@Fred in Dekalb
July 23rd, 2012
6:29 pm
“They want blood however forget that there can be collateral damage. Several good and long time employees have lost their jobs”
I’m assuming you are referring to Dr. Audria Berry. She is who you continually defended for months and months on DSW and on this blog. You were very aggressive, bordering on hostile towards Cerebration, the former moderator of DSW, yet she was amiable enough to let your comments stand. Your stance was that Dr. Berry was not responsible for improving student achievement even as she was the Director of School Improvement.
Fred in DeKalb
July 23rd, 2012
7:28 pm
DeKalbite (formerly atl), ironically I reviewed part of the old DSW earlier and noticed the consistency with my comments. In the blog about Fran Millar recommending Brad Bryant as superintendent, Cerebration and I found middle ground in the conversation while acknowledging there were some differences of opinion. That’s what true dialogue is about unlike what the current moderators for DSW want. Different points of view are not respected or welcomed. Cerebration allowed differing opinions especially if they were backed by verifiable data. She demonstrated humility and that is missed.
At to clarify once again, misstatements were made about Dr. Berry that I merely corrected, such as her involvement with school level curriculum decisions. Her responsibility was oversight of the Title 1, Part A dollars and ensuring they were spent in accordance to Federal guidelines. I pointed out the CSIP for each school which to this day, you have never acknowledged as where curriculum decisions for each school are made with administrators, teachers and parents. As I understand, Dr. Berry spent Federal money without proper Board authorization. There is no excuse for someone with compliance responsibilities doing and and she was relieved of her duties. I agreed with that decision and stated so. Word on the street is that she contested being relieved of duties thus was assigned as a teacher to a school while the process was being reviewed.
I actually listed several of the good employee departments that were let go in my next sentence.. There were also several long time secretaries at the Central office let go, one who came to the DSW blog. After saying that the only one that needed a secretary was the superintendent, the moderator did empathize with this person because they knew them along with the quality of their work.