Two sets of college standards: One for foreign students and one for native English speakers
Here is an interesting essay by Rick Diguette, an Atlanta area writer who also teaches English at a local college.
By Rick Diguette
A student from China recently sent me an email. “In this summer I enjoy your lecture,” she wrote, “and I know that you care about every student. However, I have to consider withdrawing myself.” She then explained that in order to transfer to Georgia Tech she had to maintain a high GPA. I was almost certain I knew what was coming next, and sure enough there it was. “I really want to get an A or at least a B in the English course.”
The percentage of foreign students at the community college where I teach is quite high―about nine percent are Asian, seven percent Hispanic, while many others come from countries in Africa, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East. Most of these students must take one or more ESL classes before moving on to college English. The transition for many of them is anything but smooth. Some expect to be treated differently than native English speakers and gravitate to instructors known to be more lenient when it comes to grades.
Few Asian students enroll in my classes anymore. I assume word has gotten around that I hold all students to the same standards no matter their background, but this isn’t always easy. Most of the Asian students enrolled in my classes over the last few years have been so far superior, as students, to their native English speaking classmates that I often wonder if I’m doing the right thing. Maybe I should cut them some slack.
The student from China writes and speaks English with a moderate degree of proficiency, and she knows this. “If I withdraw, I will study hard in the vacation,” she wrote in that email. But when I couldn’t assure her of an A or a B in the class, she withdrew from my class. Next semester she will no doubt enroll in a class taught by an instructor with a reputation for using two sets of standards, one for foreign students and one for native English speakers. As much as I disagree with the practice, I have come to accept it as a by-product of globalization.
The English language spread throughout the world principally as a by-product of British and American imperialism. Our interests abroad have been driven in large part by the pursuit of cheap natural resources as well as cheap labor. Along the way we have touted the virtues of democracy, but in the end our economic relationships―especially in places like Africa, Asia and the Middle East―have been exploitative.
Under these circumstances I can’t fault foreign students for viewing America’s system of higher education as an exploitable resource. Many come from countries where access to a college degree is prohibitively expensive if attainable at all. They are driven to our shores because we have an abundant supply of colleges and universities. To frustrate their educational aspirations because their command of the English language is less developed than I would like it to be borders on the xenophobic. Additionally, few of them plan to major in English.
Some of my colleagues may wonder why it has taken me so long to come to such a benign realization. Others may dismiss me as yet another convert to the dark side of deteriorating standards. I can live with both assessments. Or as my foreign and domestic students tell me all the time these days, it is what it is.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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63 comments Add your comment
Old Strategy
July 9th, 2012
4:14 am
I’m not arguing that the student is using the proper strategy to
get accepted into Georgia Tech, but how is what she is doing
different than other students struggling in a class, and deciding
to withdraw in the middle of the semester , or checking
on Rate My Professor.Com to find the best suited class ?
Robert Beecher
July 9th, 2012
5:57 am
I, for one, believe Maureen Downey should be applauded for holding to one standard. One of the problems in America today is that “breaks” are giving to those that have some type of dis-advantage, this is a “no-fail” Society. Any Student attending American School’s should learn the English language, to give them a passing Grade when one isn’t earned isn’t teaching the Student..
Bill
July 9th, 2012
6:37 am
I don’t see any evidence to suggest that other instructors use two sets of standards. Perhaps they grade everyone easier.
Wrecker
July 9th, 2012
7:10 am
I hope this was written tongue-in-cheek. Is it now xenophobic to insist that students, attending a university in the United States conducted in English, speak the language proficiently to pass the course?
Road Scholar
July 9th, 2012
7:18 am
Interesting web site with more interesting comments about my wife who is a professor. One comment: while some say she is easy, others say she is hard; but most students who posted can’t spell and many use fragmented sentences. Is this the quality of the students in college now?
Really?
July 9th, 2012
7:38 am
@Road Scholar
Welcome to the new world of tweets. As a University Professor, this is what you find whether the student is from South Korea or South Georgia. Grammar and spelling are consider passe. I, for one, insist on perfect or near perfect grammar with the same standards for all. When one is from a foreign country that is non-English speaking, the standards are that one does not expect their verbal English to be perfect, but perfect is the expectation for written English…as it is for native English speakers. Oral and written communication skills are one of the keys to success in any job, regardless of the major. You might think I’m an English professor… I’m a Biology professor.
Mountain Man
July 9th, 2012
7:41 am
Even back in the Middle Ages when I attended college, this problem with English was there. The worst thing was when you had a grad student teaching your course who couldn’t speak English. Made it very hard for the students to learn.
Atlanta Mom
July 9th, 2012
7:42 am
If we knew these students were going back to their native countries after obtaining their degrees, then maybe we should be willing to cut them some slack on the English requirements. But, we don’t know that.
Mountain Man
July 9th, 2012
7:46 am
From the comments I see on the blogs, most native English speakers never learned the difference between your and you’re.
James Lee Adams
July 9th, 2012
7:48 am
When I began classes at Georgia Tech in 1961 I entered Spanish 101 and discovered I was the only student in the class not named Jose. I told the lady instructor I was unsure about competing in the class (Tech was notorious about curving grades) and was in trouble. She replied she was in trouble too but for me to stick with the class/her and if I made the proper effort, I would be OK. As I recall I made a “B.” and was thankful, but I can assure you I did not measure up to the rest of the class. Maybe some common sense and compassion are needed.
Entitlement Society
July 9th, 2012
7:59 am
@Really – way to stick to your guns!
Progressive Humanist
July 9th, 2012
8:01 am
The professor may be weighting his grades too heavily on conventions. Foreign students should be able to interpret, analyze, use supporting evidence, etc. as well or better than American students, and most professors would argue that that’s where most of a student’s grade should be focused on. Foreign students will naturally have difficulties with conventions (usage and mechanics) because of their ESOL status (although plenty of Americans do too; see Robert Beecher above). I’d like to see how Mr. Diguette arrives at his grades. If he does it analytically, as he should, it’s difficult to see how students would get extremely low grades based strictly on their use of conventions, unless he was overemphasizing them to the detriment of higher order thinking skills.
As an aside, I view the English degree in general as one of the most useless degrees to pursue (and I did my first degree in lit before getting my real degrees later on). I find little practical value in receiving intense training in trying to arrive at the most objective interpretation of fiction. It seems little more than a lifelong game of dungeons and dragons to focus your professional knowledge on interpreting the implications of something that never actually happened. So I’d advocate re-conceptualizing how we structure language courses at all levels of education.
DunMoody
July 9th, 2012
8:03 am
Majoring in math/science today means trying to understand professors whose articulation and command of English vernacular is minimal and whose expectations that students understand them are over-inflated. Sign of the times that so many colleges are hiring professors to teach calculus, computer science, physics, and other classes … who are really not conversant in English. My college student has to rely on additional internet-research notes, the rare sharing of powerpoints by the professor, and group studying among perplexed students to decode lectures. Double the work, definitely less the comprehension. Colleges are so desperate to fill those slots they wink at expectations that their professors be able to COMMUNICATE with students. (Added misery – many of these professors are very impatient with students who don’t understand them the first time. Sorry, class – gotta get to that research project that’s my real reason for being here!)
DunMoody
July 9th, 2012
8:11 am
My point above is that there’s a double standard here … a professor demands foreign-born students master the English language while many foreign-born professors are not held to the same standard.
Aged P
July 9th, 2012
8:11 am
Right on, Mr. Diguette! If a student, ESL or otherwise, is enrolled in an English class, that student should be evaluated against the established standard and receive a grade consistent with their performance. Many colleges and universities offer language support to ESL students; to their credit, many of those students take advantage of the assistance and display improvement in their English proficiency as a result. Now if we could get the native English speakers to perform well in their birth language… Hang in there, Mr. Diguette; yours is the good fight.
numbergirl
July 9th, 2012
8:13 am
Students should be graded according to the same set of standards. Georgia Tech and other universities are surely aware of this dilemma–let them be the ones to show leniency in their admissions criteria if they want to admit these students.
Mel
July 9th, 2012
8:15 am
Thought provoking. I see both sides of the argument. However, I still fall on the side of equality. Believe me, when my friend went to grad school overseas, they didn’t make any exceptions for her. She just had to work harder.
Jordan Kohanim
July 9th, 2012
8:16 am
Rick Diguette,
What a well-written and compassionate article. It exemplifies what many of teachers go through. I have no answers, but I’m sure your goal was simply to expose the question of standards when tied to grades, especially now that grades are tied to money. I have had a few parents tell me that if their child did not “get” and A (which cracks me up because kids should earn an A, not “get one), that I would ruin his/her life. Their argument actually does have some merit even if the phrasing is melodramatic.
When a child’s grades are tied to monetary compensation through the HOPE scholarship, it is difficult for teachers to be the one barrier that holds that child back. Sure, that is what teachers are paid the big bucks to do, (yes, that’s sarcasm). Seriously though, when society views the grades as the goal and not the learning–just as school systems view data points as the goal and not the well-being of the student–education loses its purposes.
Standards exist for students to strive to meet. They exist to be goals, not necessarily dismissible measures. It goes back to that whole difference between learning and education argument.
When school systems exist to prove the worth of existence, and not to better society they lose their purpose. When school systems exists to promote their test scores and do not focus on the life-long learning of a child, they lose their purpose.
Rick, I have no answers to your dilemma, but I appreciate you continuing to fight.
SGA Teacher
July 9th, 2012
8:31 am
As a high school English teacher, I have to prepare students for the state mandated writing test. I show my students released copies of the test and what information the readers get: a copy of the writing assessment, period. No demographic data, race, age, sex – just a writing sample. I applaud this professor for holding his students to a uniform standard because the state insists I do the same.
Oh, and I teach Special Needs, ESL and the ones who struggle with writing. Students who have trouble with homonyms, sentences and the like. I cannot be too easy on them or they do not graduate.
HoneyFern School
July 9th, 2012
8:33 am
I am tutoring a student right now who is having this issue. She is American, raised in a Latin American country so English is her second language. Her college professor lectures for nearly two hours, doesn’t allow recording of lectures and does not use a lecture outline or provide notes online.
He also has no assignments; the grades are five tests, plus class participation, and that is it. My student is a fluent English speaker, but this class is impossible for her to pass because of the way it is taught. She studies, takes notes on the readings and reviews, but she is still struggling due to the specialized vocabulary and will probably end up dropping the class and taking it again in the fall. She can explain the material to me, but the exams do not offer her the chance to do that – just fill in the bubble.
I don’t think two sets of standards are necessary, but I do think that support needs to be in place and tecahers need to employ better instructional practices, not just for ELLs but also for the 40% of GA students who require remedial classes in reading and math when they enter college.
carlosgvv
July 9th, 2012
8:36 am
“deteriorating standards”
History teaches that when any Country accepts deteriorating standards as acceptable in any facets of it’s culture, nothing good will result.
Anonmom
July 9th, 2012
8:41 am
My college-aged, out-of-state son is complaining, a lot, about not being able to understand the English of his professors –it’s part of attending “the university” these days (I remember those profs from my days in school) — he tries to sign up for classes with American sounding names but he’s in a science field and there are not too many… I always marvel at how excellent thier (choose any one of these kids…) English is to my French (which is my 2nd language) — which I studied for all of high school and a few semester in college and can about stutter in… I would never be able to attend a university-level class in it. I’m not sure that you need two different sets of standards but I don’t blame her for withdrawing.. her English may, however, be better than some of the other native-speakers floating around, she may just care more….
Quoodle
July 9th, 2012
8:41 am
If I moved to, say… Sweden, there’s no way I could pass any class without help. While I don’t think there should be two standards, students who lack a certain degree of proficiency should have assistance, whether in the classroom in the form of an interpreter, or outside with a tutor or computer program.
William Casey
July 9th, 2012
8:59 am
I see two possible solutions to this problem:
1. All of the higher ed institutions in the metro area could go in together and establish English learning centers at which students take intensive English competency claases that students take prior to college admission. No need for grades as the courses would not be part of a degree program. Students would simply be required to pass a proficiency test taken whenever the student was ready.
2. This also seems an excellent opportunity for private businesses to offer intense English language programs based on Rosetta Stone.
I don’t see any need to “water down” for credit college English courses.
bob
July 9th, 2012
9:03 am
We have two sets of standards now, it’s called affimative action. We give breaks to kids based on color, how would giving Asians a break hurt ? In fact, why are Asians not considered minorities when it comes to academics anyway, they are much more of a minority than black of Hispanics ?
notgrammarnazi
July 9th, 2012
9:06 am
International students, and native speakers, need to write in Standard American English–no matter what their major is. The purpose behind First Year Composition courses is to set a standard for English usage that carries over to other disciplines. I don’t see how holding non-native and native English speakers to a basic standard borders on xenophobic . . . If I decided to study at the Sorbonne, should I expect professors to give me “slack” or inflate my grades on writing assignments because my command of French has only a “moderate degree of proficiency,” even though my ideas are solid? I don’t think so. I would EXPECT to work at least twice as hard for the desired A or B, or be thrilled at just being able to pass (my French is not even moderately proficient). Written communication skills are highly valued in the job market today. Perhaps this is so because so many college graduates entering the job market lack the ability to write in Standard American English–non-native AND native speakers.
“A” used to mean “excellent.”
Shar
July 9th, 2012
9:11 am
Mountain Man and DunMoody bring up the obverse to Mr. Diguette’s point, and I believe it is even more important.
Professors and/or grad students who are paid to teach yet do not have mastery of English are unable to effectively transmit information and understanding, and are therefore not delivering the service those students are paying for. This is, quite simply, fraud. The scam is perpetuated by universities that want experts in their fields to bring in grant money and regard teaching undergraduates as of secondary importance. This is particularly prevalent at research universities and most acutely at places like Georgia Tech, where the demand for STEM-course professors far outstrips the supply. Professionals who are sufficiently expert in math/science/technology and who can effectively communicate are far better compensated in a corporate environment, leaving universities dependent upon those less suited (as it were) to the rigor of business communication.
Leaving me to contemplate where Mr. Diguette’s student is planning to go. Her apparent goal is a STEM-related degree at Georgia Tech, and as she is shopping for a grade instead of asking for help to actually improve, it is likely that she will not be sufficiently conversant in English to master the writing and nuanced communication needed for work in an American corporation. Assuming that she is admitted, she will most likely pursue the highest degree obtainable and either return to China or find a way to stay here, and if the latter then most likely in the academic world. Here she will perpetuate the scam described above.
So, Mr. Diguette, I urge you to continue to hold all of your students to high standards in their use of English. Despite the dismissive attitude of many towards such “soft” studies (as opposed to the “useful, hard sciences” they came here to learn), speaking English is crucial to everyone who hopes to prosper outside of small immigrant enclaves. If your student works hard for her STEM degree and cannot speak and write fluently, her own future choices are compromised. If she uses her degree to teach, the futures of her students will be.
You do no one any real favors by ignoring those consequences and handing out unearned As.
sometimes ex-science teacher
July 9th, 2012
9:11 am
Just curious….but don’t college ESL classes *not* count towards admission? I have taught both science and ESL (separately, and sometimes if not planned so, together!) and my understanding is that those ESL classes are supportive but not counted towards college admission. When I taught at science GPC, with a lot of non-English speakers, my interest was getting them to know the science and, as long as the English was understandable, and reasonably grammatical, I let the imperfections go. I gave bonuses sometimes for better than that level so there was some motivation to improve, and I gave lots of English advice to help them. What I found more worthless was the fact that most students stopped reading my comments with the part that told their grade and didn’t care about following through or improving the next time. And that was for native or non-native speakers. Yes, some students dropped because they might get only a B but all that does for me, now, is that whenever a person comes to me who graduated from College X, I still test them to see if they really are an A or B level worker in the field of endeavor. I don’t trust the grades I see on the transcript.
Bob
July 9th, 2012
9:35 am
I thought ESL classes were pass/fail with no effect on GPA at Tech, much like the Regents exam class I took as a freshman. Is this no longer the case?
Also I thank you for maintaining your standards. When I went to Tech there was one standard for everyone. If you could do the work to standard you passed. If you produced extraordinarily work you got an A; if you produced very good work it was a B; just good solid work was a C; fair work barely up to standard was a D and poor substandard work was an F. I assume it is the same today since very few students that got A’s in high school got A’s at Tech their first year; most of them get B’s and C’s their freshmen year.
catlady
July 9th, 2012
9:47 am
You know, I was in college for undergrad, masters(2), and PhD and in only one class did I have a TA/lecturer whose English was hard to understand (for me)! All those years, at 4 different flagship state universities, and only once did I have to “listen hard.”
Margaret
July 9th, 2012
9:53 am
I attended ESL classes in a Long Island community college twenty years ago. I studied hard and never complained about the difficulty of the language. I decided that the best way to respect the people of United States is by learning their language to the best of my capability. Although my English is far from perfect, I still feel that it was a good decision on my part. My opinion is that the least immigrants can do for this country and for the people of this country is to respect the country’s language and traditions. After all, we are the guests in here.
Roy
July 9th, 2012
9:59 am
Shame on the people that have two standards. I have experienced this first hand with my own daughter. She was charged out of state tuition when we moved for 3 years then moved back to Ga .while illegals were waved the cost.
YALLOweMe
July 9th, 2012
10:04 am
@Bob, “I thought ESL classes were pass/fail with no effect on GPA at Tech, much like the Regents exam class I took as a freshman. Is this no longer the case?”
Bob, you are correct. Maybe Maureen just tried to stir up a non-issue? Maureen? International students have a lot of flexibility with ELS classes. An international student enrolled at Tech may take ELS classes at a cheaper college that may have a better ELS program as long as Tech is fine with it. As long as said student can pass Tech’s ELS test later, the student will become full-time Tech student at that point regardless of how and where s/he takes ESL. It’s all lies to stir up this ESL and tough requirements issue. I know many Tech students from China. Most of them want to improve their English very badly but they are frustrated with ESL teachers who don’t understand them. ESL performance don’t affect engineering major enrollment. A student can take the same ESL class over again and again until s/he passes. The problem is with money as ESL is expensive.
YALLOweMe
July 9th, 2012
10:05 am
Meant to say ESL in my above comment instead of ELS.
Atlanta Mom
July 9th, 2012
10:10 am
Catlady,
When did you get your advanced degrees, and are they in STEM subjects?
bootney farnsworth
July 9th, 2012
10:33 am
oh, so much to touch on here……..
1-I don’t know the man, but I’d bet he teaches at GPC, where the thought police have a policy – probably an unconstitutional one – that forbids anyone working at GPC from IDing themselves as such or face the wrath of the HR hatchet squad.
aside to Maureen and AJC: when are you guys gonna get back to the implosion going on at GPC? this story is FAR from over, if you care to keep digging. its gonna be much worse before it gets better, and there are so stinking many stories to be told about a school and a system out of control.
2-GPC has the largest % of foreign students in the USG. and despite the cutting in their services, would happly have more. why? to exploit them economically.
foreign students are a massive cash cow for GPC and the USG. massive. as big if not bigger than on line. if they graduate, great. if they transfer, great. just make sure they stay as long as the checks clear.
3-I have a hard time finding sympathy for foreign students coming here, especially to GPC, since so many of them are gaming the system. its just that simple. its more competitive for them back home, it more demanding, and failure or slow progression is not an option.
and they want assurances about grades? looks like entitlement mentality is something else we’re exporting to the third world.
4-if you don’t speak the language, and aren’t willing to learn it, you (joe foreign) student have no business attending public college in this or any other country.
5- it would be profoundly wrong to have two sets of criteria for students. hell, many native born americans have major english profecience issues. dumb it down for the foreign students and you’re begging for another major lawsuit. something else GPC & the USG can’t afford right now.
6-ever ask yourself why so many come here? its easier. while we have many, many fine institutions of higher education in the US, we also have our fair share of not so wonderful ones. its not uncommon for high school instructors from India, Africa, and Europe to become college instructors here.
brutal fact: alot, not all, not even the majority, but alot of foreign students are here because of their inability to compete back home. the US has become the junior college system for most of the rest of the world.
the best and the brightest get into Duke, Tech, Vandy, ect with no problem. and its funny how they rarely are the ones fussing.
7-I have long favored a hard cap on the amount of foreign students who can enroll in US colleges. don’t get me wrong, I’m glad to have them here. even India’s b-team is often a step up from the quality of the US a-team. its a relationship which benefits everyone.
however, simple truth of life is US colleges/Universities have a primary responsiblity to educate our citizens first. even if foreign students don’t cost a dime, their very presence takes time, opportunity, and resources away from our own.
considering how astonishingly bad our own education system is becoming, we need to be educating our own kids first and formost more then ever.
8-this said, we must put more energy and resources into english language skills. the US is already the least literate nation in the industrial/1st world, and slipping fast. no matter how brilliant a STEM person is, they must be able to communicate clearly and effectively if they wish to be effective in life and business. I love WC’s Rosetta stone idea. especially the private funding part.
if they don’t learn english, they better start learning Hindi, Korean, or Arabic. otherwise, they’ll be unemployable in a much larger arena.
bootney farnsworth
July 9th, 2012
10:39 am
I have no problem with basic language proficency requirements before anyone gets to attend college.
doesn’t have to be perfect at all, but a demonstrated abililty to communicate at certain level.
Prof
July 9th, 2012
11:45 am
Rick Diguette’s student demonstrates in her own email to him that she isn’t proficient in English, nor does she grasp basic ideas about verb tenses or the passive and active voices of verbs. He would not be doing her a favor by passing her along with her imperfect grasp of English to try to compete in the American business world.
And Georgia Tech itself has an extensive ESL program as well as a Department of Language and Literature, so she should not assume that their writing standards will be lower for her.
As I always tell such non-native students who complain about getting low grades for poor grammar (and also native AAVE [African American Vernacular English] speakers having this problem), college is the last chance you’re going to get to learn the correct grammar and usage of the English language. When you go out into the larger society, you’re going to be judged on the quality your written English ability. Better learn it now!
Entitlement Society
July 9th, 2012
11:57 am
@Margaret – Finally! Someone with an attitude of respect for our nation. Thank you. Wish all “guests” were as polite and well mannered as you appear to be. I think you summed it up perfectly. I bet your decision has served you well.
bootney farnsworth
July 9th, 2012
12:50 pm
can somebody remove Will’s anti semetic rant?
Competitive
July 9th, 2012
12:54 pm
College students expect two standards because we (teachers) are required to have multiple standards for our students in K-12.
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
July 9th, 2012
1:06 pm
Is that how your “higher education” taught you to deal with undeniable truth your sect finds “unpleasant,” “bootney farnsworth,” by making taboo any mention of treason your divided allegiance favors?
Prof
July 9th, 2012
1:08 pm
I agree with Bootney at 12:50 pm. Ugly.
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
July 9th, 2012
1:16 pm
Truth is often ugly, particularly to those sympathetic to G-dless criminality, no matter how ancient its origin.
I’ll stick with America’s Founder’s prophetic wisdom, left to us for our better understanding of “the real Anti-Christ,” “an engine for enslaving mankind.”
Will Jones - Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis
July 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
…but what do I know, a mere “goy” whose family received Our Nation in covenant with G-d, in mortal combat?
Prof
July 9th, 2012
1:20 pm
@ Will Jones – Atlanta Jeffersonian Exegesis. July 9th, 1:06 pm.
You’re indirectly saying in yhour 11:16 am post that some conspiracy of Jews (Hitler’s “Jewish Elders”?) assassinated John Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr., bombed the Twin Towers on 9/11, and controlled Bush and Cheney from “the State of Israel.” Words like “Gentile” and “goyim” only increase the effect.
You seem to assume that “Bootney Farnsworth” is a Jewish name since you mention his “sect” and “divided allegiance”….it’s the name of a character played by the African American Jimmy Walker from a 1970s film comedy with African American actors, you fool.
Maureen, you chase off the blatant racists. Why not the Anti-Semites?
S.
July 9th, 2012
1:39 pm
It is amazing that there is this double-standard, but I have experienced it first-hand when I was in graduate school. I was shocked at the level of writing some of my peers turned in–and the grades they were rewarded with.
I have a big issue with this. If a foreign student transfers from another country, typically strong in math, comes to an American university, should we grade them on a different scale as well? Domestic students often enter college ill-equipped to handle advanced level mathematics. Do we evaluate their work in a more “understanding” or “friendly” manner because the U.S. is far behind other countries in K-12 mathematics and science? Would you want your surgeon to have an easier time in medical school based on their previous educational background? Would you want your CPA or an engineer designing a bridge that you’ll drive over, time and time again, to be graded easier because of where they come from? I should hope not.
Standards are standards–period. I have noticed many engineering departments do not look nearly as closely to English grades, as they do to mathematics scores. As they should–mathematics are much relevant and critical to success in engineering than English is. That is for the Engineering Admissions offices to decide–not English professors. English professors should still grade everyone equally.
bootney farnsworth
July 9th, 2012
3:53 pm
can somebody get Will his meds?
truth can be ugly indeed. but never as ugly as bigotry born from ignorance.
I feel sorry for you Will. I hope you find either some mental help or a new game to play.
bootney farnsworth
July 9th, 2012
3:58 pm
oh, and BTW Will:
I’m not jewish, and my only allegiances are to this nation and my faith.
I do know and like several jews – a couple are very special to me.
I actually have a special place in my heart for one in particular – she taught me to be a man in several different senses of the word. most importantly to feel sorry for the ignorant
NONPC
July 9th, 2012
4:08 pm
The prof says it best: <i?He would not be doing her a favor by passing her along with her imperfect grasp of English to try to compete in the American business world.
If foreign students are going to return to their home countries and never speak English again… then I could see a different standard. But if they are staying here, it is NOT xenophobic to demand that they communicate in English at a college level… especially when they will be competing with our own country’s students for grades and jobs.
The original author says: To frustrate their educational aspirations because their command of the English language is less developed than I would like it to be borders on the xenophobic.
Couldn’t this argument be made for ANY student? Does the author believe that this is a serious argument?