Fayette, Forsyth and Decatur lead metro area on CRCT. But all have poverty levels of 25 percent or less.
Speaking of how the CRCT is graded, the Georgia Department of Education released system-wide data today on the 2012 scores.
The highest-scoring metro systems were Fayette, Forsyth and Decatur City, all of which are high-performing systems with relatively low poverty rates.
In terms of low-income students, as measured by students eligible for free/reduced lunches on the most recent state report cards:
•19 percent of students are low-income in Forsyth
•22 percent of students are low-income in Fayette
•25 percent of students are low-income in Decatur
In comparison, consider that Clayton, one of the low performing systems, has 82 percent of its students qualifying for free/reduced lunch. The state average is 57 percent. In Atlanta, 76 percent of students are low-income.
Here is a link to an AJC database of the district scores.
Students in Fayette, Forsyth and Decatur City school systems outperformed their metro-area peers on 2012 state exams, according to scores released Thursday.
In these counties, students excelled in reading and math while results showed that students in Clayton, DeKalb and Atlanta City trailed in tested subjects.
The Criterion-Referenced Competency Test is given annually to public school students in grades three through eighth, and measures whether students are testing on grade level in English/language arts, social studies, reading, math and science. The test will be deemphasized in the coming years as Georgia moves away from federal No Child Left Behind accountability measures to a new accountability system of its own.
Since 2000, the exams were critical in determining whether schools met annual academic goals, known as adequate yearly progress or AYP. Schools and districts that didn’t meet goals, which increased every year, were subject to sanctions under state and federal law.
Soon, the state will introduce a new index system that will assign each school a numerical rating from one to 100, and CRCT esults will be one of several factors that make up a school’s rating.
State data released earlier this month showed Georgia students overall improved on the exam for the third year in a row. English/language arts, social studies and reading results increased this year, while math and science scores remained flat or dropped slightly. School-level CRCT data is not expected to be released until mid-July.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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75 comments Add your comment
Questions on the CRCT. Answers from Georgia DOE. | Get Schooled
June 28th, 2012
2:14 pm
[...] Fayette, Forsyth and Decatur lead metro area on CRCT. But all have poverty levels of 25 percent or l… [...]
Mountain Man
June 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
So you are saying that high-SES counties scored better on the CRCT? NO! Really?
Mountain Man
June 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
Next you will tell me it is dark at night.
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
If you looked at the breakdown for race and SES, you would see a pattern; even when Asians and Indians are poor, they succeed academically. Blacks and Hispancis do not. It’s a sub-culture, a family value.
Blacks value sports. Hispanics value labor. Asians and Indians value academics and whites are somewhere in the middle.
You cannot blame the low test scores on low incomes. It’s much more difficult than that. You’ve got to influence people to change their core values and here in the South, it’s sports, not academics.
This is why Jerry Sandusky was allowed to molest and rape childrren — because sports was more important than a child’s protection and well-being.
If we want our kids to succeed we need to treat sports as a healthy past-time and not as a goal in life. We need to help people understand they must learn to speak and write English properly and they need to learn math and science and history.
We need an educated work-force for our democratic society to flourish and succeed or else we’ll be the low-paid servant for other countries, just as Mexico is now.
Less football, more math.
Less rap music, more science.
Less hair and makeup, more English.
Less “blame the man” and more personal responsibility.
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2012
2:31 pm
@Mountain, Just a preemptive strike against the usual suspects who will argue it’s racial.
I should note that there is some diversity in these systems:
Decatur is 57 percent white, 32 percent African American, 5 percent multiracial, 4 percent Hispanic and 3 percent Asian.
Fayette is 57 percent white , 23 percent African American, 9 percent Hispanic, 6 percent multiracial, and 4 percent Asian.
Forsyth is 76 percent white; 12 percent Hispanic, 7 percent Asian, 3 percent African-American and 3 percent multiracial
Devil's Advocate
June 28th, 2012
2:46 pm
LOL, Good Mother contradicts herself several times but most notably:
“It’s a sub-culture, a family value.
Blacks value sports. Hispanics value labor. Asians and Indians value academics and whites are somewhere in the middle.”
Her assessment reads more racial than subcultural or family values related.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
2:56 pm
You’ve got to influence people to change their core values and here in the South, it’s sports, not academics.
This is why Jerry Sandusky was allowed to molest and rape childrren — because sports was more important than a child’s protection and well-being.
But Pennsylvania isn’t in the South.
skipper
June 28th, 2012
2:58 pm
@ D/A…..it is what it is…works out the same way dog gone near every time. Look at Chicago, Detroit, etc. Call it racial, etc., but blacks consistently score lower…..THAN POOR ASIANS! Where does “poverty” enter into this part? Could it be a culture, etc. deal that is associated by race in some cases? (Acting white, etc.?) Hard to figure….when I was at UGA the blacks FROM Africa who were there did very well. So is it cultural/racial/ or what…..nobody has the answer. But it ain’t all poverty. The sub-class in many instances (Chicago, for example) has morphed into a poision subculture that is not gonna be solved in your or my lifetime.
Beverly H.
June 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
…and you wonder why APS has to cheat on the CRCT!?!?!?!
Devil's Advocate
June 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
skipper,
Racial implies genetic, cultural implies behavior. It is important that when using statistics that they are taken in proper context. Statistics simply tell you what happened for the time measured. Statistics by themselves do not tell you why something happened. You said it yourself, blacks from Africa seem to do better than in the classroom than blacks from Chicago, Detroit, etc. So that would lean towards being cultural rather than saying that “blacks suck in the classroom”.
When we speak in generalities then try to take those generalities and make them hard realities that’s when drama starts. All of a sudden you have people who heard something or thought they saw something assume that all people who look a certain way are that way and that all people who are not that demographic must be different. A very dangerous slope applying assumptions upon assumptions then claiming them as facts of the matter. The broader brush you use to paint the less precise the picture drawn.
If an issue is racial then there’s not much that can be done about it by the greater society in practical terms. If something is cultural then with properly directed time and resources change for the better can occur.
But hey, blacks are still trying to learn how to swim right?
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
Hillbilly — Yes, Penn State is in Pennsylvania — it’s up North.
And here in the South sports is even more important than it is there — so the comparison is noteworthy. If Penn State values sports more than the lives of children — think how much more the South would do if the same thing occurred. What if this happened at the University of Alabama?
The sports nuts would threaten to kill the boys for testifying — that’s how bad it is down here.
Get it?
I realize you are a hillbilly but even you should be able to understand…
and I noticed you didn’t disagree.
abacus2
June 28th, 2012
3:15 pm
It does not cost a dime to stress the importance of good behavior and doing as your teacher asks. It costs nothing to check that your child’s homework is done. Books from the school and public libraries are free. I have students on free and reduced lunch with $100+ sport shoes, iPhones, and expensive weaves. I’ve had these same children miss a day of school to get their hair done. The problem is NOT poverty, it’s attitude. Education is far down on the priorities list of many families. I wish we could have cloned Dr. Ben Carson’s mom. She had her priorities straight and communicated them to her boys – no slack, ever! And they achieved.
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
Devil’s advocate, you’re spot on. It IS cultural — or rather sub-cultural. I live next door to a black family that values education — she is from African, not Atlanta. Her children and bright and well-behaved and they are taunted for “acting white.” They are also lower middle class/poor. She is also a single mother — so she has all the statistics against her so why are her children doing well? It’s the sub-culture. she is African-black, not American-black.
The sub-culture of African-Americans do not value academics as much as they value sports.
I know Indians, born into poverty in India who studied, succeeded and now are making 200K plus as programmers. It IS NOT all about poverty. It’s about a personal and cultural value.
Prof
June 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
@ Good Mother. Penn State student racial/ethnic demographics are 75.4% white, 5.5% African American, 4.3% Asian, and 4.4% Hispanic. But I really fail to see the relevance of the Jerry Sandusky case to this discussion at all.
Hillbilly D
June 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
It does not cost a dime to stress the importance of good behavior and doing as your teacher asks.
Good point. Daddy used to tell us, “Even if you’re dumber than a rock, you can still behave and get a good conduct grade”.
I realize you are a hillbilly
Do I detect a hint of bigotry? The name, of course, refers to those of us with long standing Appalachian Scots-Irish ancestry. If things are so bad down here, though, there are major interstates leading out in every direction, as well as the world’s busiest airport.
The problems of education are national problems and not confined to any one area.
Dekalb taxpayer
June 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
Unfortunately, in some metro-Atlanta school systems, you do not need to be able to speak and write English well in order to have a high-paying job.
just sayin'
June 28th, 2012
3:54 pm
So it’s okay to say one ethnicity is better at sports and athletics, but it’s NOT okay to say one ethnicity (as a group) is better at logical thought processing? Sounds like racism to me.
DEE
June 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
Dear Good Mother,
I am a Yankee and calling someone a hill billy isn’t respectful. Do your children call people names also? You are a bully……………… Good mothers are great role models.
DEE
June 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
Dekalb taxpayer,
Are you in a special group? You sound like you belong in an unusual group? Do you associate with people who pay taxes? Most people are taxpayers and you fall in the category with mannnnnny others.
(boring name)
NONPC
June 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
Poverty in the U.S. means: has a smart phone, family has one or more cars, has central heating and air, has a flat screen TV, has a computer.
“Poverty” means low earned income… and that is all. All those CEOs with multi million dollar compensation packages and $1 salaries are considered by the government to be “in poverty”. It is not an assesment of living conditions or of family wealth. “Poverty” is not an indicator of student spending. More is spent on students in the APS than most any other school system in the state. There is so much wrong with trying to link performance to “poverty” that it is not worth trying.
This is not a racial problem. This is a cultural problem. But remember: much of a person’s culture has roots in race. Black isn’t a culture. Hip-hop is a culture. I suspect that the black families in Fayette, Forsyth and Decatur are strongly influenced by their white neighbors…. for the better. The minority kids in those schools are encouraged to compete academically, rather than frowned upon for “acting white”. It has a lot more to do with who you are sitting next to in class… and living next to in the neighborhood.. than the amount of money your parents make.
southside teacher
June 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
Oh, no Maureen! Tell me you aren’t one of those ‘defenders of the status quo’ who believes the lie that economics drives the gap?!
NONPC
June 28th, 2012
4:29 pm
So it’s okay to say one ethnicity is better at sports and athletics, but it’s NOT okay to say one ethnicity (as a group) is better at logical thought processing? Sounds like racism to me.
It is racism. Its fine in the U.S. to look at the NBA and say that “blacks are better in basketball”, but strictly forbidden to look at the graduating engineering classes of Georgia Tech or Stanford and say that Asians (or whites) are better at Science and Mathematics. The first is “common sense” but the latter is “racism”. Both are, in fact, racism. I would submit that both statements are true, and that both are “racism”. Why do people think that one group can be separated for tens of thousands of years from another group and not develop different innate abilities? As different groups, we developed different outward appearance, we developed different diseases, we ate different foods, etc. etc.
But remember that the range of human ability (whether mental or physical) in a population is a bell curve. The VAST MAJORITY of people, regardless of race, will fall into the same range of ability. There will be geniuses and idiots in all races. The slight difference in intelligence among the races are not sufficient to explain the wide differences in test scores. The difference in culture explains everything.
Dekalb Teacher and Mom
June 28th, 2012
4:31 pm
@Good Mother- “If you looked at the breakdown for race and SES, you would see a pattern; even when Asians and Indians are poor, they succeed academically. ”
I agree with the statement but assuming the Indians you are referring to are from India they are actually considered Asian as well.
skipper
June 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
Call it racism, etc. but here are the facts: blacks in the U.S lag way behind.
blacks in MANY cases, especially inner city
(Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, for example) folks
live a lifestyle that is not conducive to being
productive….see the violent crime stats..
When other blacks try to do better, their own
often hold them back.
It may be race-based culture, not genetics.
But it is happening.
Tough to hear, and this may blow your mind, but I am not racist at all. However, there is some cultural aspect that can and should change. Every po-dunk European country in the world was able to colonize Africa. Why is there no black country that can govern it self?? (Name one…and not us; we have a black Prez, but are only 12-13% black.)
I do not think it is inferior intelligence. I think it is a culture; in Africa, where very intelligent students come from, they kill each other worse than in the streets of Chicago. What is the answer? Tough questions, and the only comments you get back are “you are a racist”. Just answer any of the questions……
Pompano
June 28th, 2012
4:50 pm
Poor ClayCo. When the Atlanta Housing Authority nuked the Public Housing Complexes, they Section 8′d all of their crap down into ClayCo.
Had a much bigger impact on APS test scores than anything Beverly Fraud & crew ever did.
Old timer
June 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
Socio economic groups mostly play a part. I was teaching in Clayton in the mid nineties when change began.
All of the upper and middle class minorities took off…fled…big time. They mostly went to Fayettte and took their bright motivated children with them.
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
5:21 pm
Dee, Hillbilly is the monniker HE chose. Just like you chose “Dee,” he or she chose “Hillbilly,” not me.
GM
NONPC
June 28th, 2012
5:31 pm
BTW, MD, one reason I reject the “poverty” links is that the “answer” to the problem is always: throw money at it.
We have thrown money at poverty since LBJ. It has not budged the “poverty” rate AT ALL. People in poverty have WAY more “stuff” than people had to 50 years ago, yet the poverty rate has remained the same. If you actually compared what the average impoverished individual has now compared to 50 years ago, they are actually quite wealthy in comparison. In fact, the average impoverished kid has more stuff today than I had as a middle class kid 40 years ago. I had a second hand bicycle, an AM/FM radio, an all-in-one record player, and a B&W TV. Yet I was still able to graduate college in EE/CS (two degrees).
And if you look what I had compared to a middle class kid 40 years before me, I was filthy rich!
But English, Reading and Mathematics hasn’t changed all that much in those 80 years. Comparatively, the “impoverished” kids now have WAY more advantages than most of the middle class or rich kids did some 40-80 years ago. Comparatively, they should be doing much better than I did. What happened? In a word: Culture.
Tired of Teaching
June 28th, 2012
5:32 pm
It is absolutely about culture. It’s not about race or ethnicity or poverty. Students who come from families that value education typically put forth the effort to be successful. In some cases, students might even come from families that don’t value education, but if they have some intrinsic or extrinsic motivator, they too will be successful. The students who are apathetic, behave like animals, have no home training, and simply come to school to socialize with peers generally come from a family culture where the school is viewed as the babysitter rather than a place to learn. Often times some of the other factors like poverty are in play as well, but you can be the poorest person on the planet and still sit in a classroom, listen, behave and learn. All the other things are excuses. There will always be students who do poorly because you’ll never have 100% of parents valuing education and instilling that in their children.
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
5:38 pm
Prof, you said “But I really fail to see the relevance of the Jerry Sandusky case to this discussion at all.”
Then allow me to explain more fully, Prof.
Sports is important in our American society. Football, in particular is more important than God, morals and the well-being and safety of at least eight little boys. When Sandusky raped these innocent little souls, the “academic” Penn State covered it up so that the “storied” football program would be protected. It is an example of how our American culture values sports more than the lives of children…
and in our American culture we have sub-cultures. American blacks have their own sub-culture as do Asian-Americans, Indian-Americans and Southern whites and Northern whites and so on.
Within these sub-cultures, Asian and Indians value education most. They spend their time and effort on academics and it shows — that is why they are at the top of the class — they value education most, sports least.
On the flip side, African-Americans are a sub-culture. They value sports most and academics least.
This is why Bo Jackson and Charles Barclay and others like them were star athletes and why Indian-Americans have won the National Scripps Spelling Bee for the last decade. Each sub-culture practices the values each holds dear — Indians and Asians, regardless of income, value education and they succeed academically. Black Americans value sports and they succeed in those sports, and fail academically, regardless of income. There are of course, some exceptions, but as a rule it is true.
Hispanics value labor. There is an expression that goes something like “I worked like a Mexican,” on my yard last weekend, meaning they spent a great effort doing physical labor. Hispanic Americans value hard, physical work.
We succeed in the areas we put our efforts. It is not all about income and poverty. It’s about values.
Successful athletes do become rich and famous but there are few jobs in professional sports. There are a lot more jobs in technology. So Raja and Dong Tao, the Indian and the Asian are not multi-millionaire athletetes but they earn six figures in technology. All those blacks who set their sights and put their efforts into basketball and football and didn’t make it to the professional sports leagues — are outside on the sidewalks blaming the “man.”
There is one sure-fire way out of poverty – an education. Public schools are available and libraries with the Internet are free and within commuting and walking distance for poor urban families. For rural poor, their opportunities are much fewer.
I came from the rural poor and I am no longer. I credit a couple of teachers and a nurse and my own determination to make it out and I have. I teach my values to my children, who, will not be in a public school next year. I’ll sacrifice to send them to private school because I value education more than football and I’ll bet you my children will succeed.
We all have to take responsibility for ourselves.
So, Prof, there is your answer.
GM
Solutions
June 28th, 2012
5:57 pm
Yes, poverty and stupidity are linked, one causes the other, but it is not the way you think. Poverty does not cause stupidity, stupidity causes poverty.
Jan
June 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
So… We ditch the ITBS since it was too biased against poor black kids. Now we have our own homegrown test, the CRCT… And this population isn’t doing any better… Is this a coincidence?
Old timer
June 28th, 2012
6:29 pm
I should have also said, after teaching in a small rural town in Tn……where poverty was big….I really saw culture had more to do with achievement that anything. I had several poor Hispanics who had parents that showed up at school…they passed test and preformed in school. I had many who had parents and grandparents who had received assistance forever….they expected to do the same. 30percent of all were in special Ed….more money for the poor county. There was a very high teen pregnancy rate…and half of the honor graduates were black Americans. So ..parental expectations makes all the difference…again culture…
Old timer
June 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
Thebest way to avoid poverty…stay in schoo, do not get pregnant, get a job…
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2012
6:33 pm
@southside, I believe the accessories of poverty — poor nutrition, homelessness or changing apartments every two months, bunking on grandmom’s couch, lack of medical attention, including eyesight, addictions — contribute to the gap.
Maureen
Murphey
June 28th, 2012
6:54 pm
@Good Mother, 5:38 – Bo Jackson earned a Bachelor of Science degree and even if Charles Barkley did not (I can’t find out for sure), he has represented America well in the Olympics and is successfully employed in an Emmy award winning television show. I don’t think we should bad mouth that.
Athletes are individuals, just like the rest of us. Some are successful with a college degree, some are successful without a college degree, and others are not successful at all. Let’s not paint them all with a broad brush.
Kris
June 28th, 2012
7:25 pm
The solution is easy. Education needs teachers (better paid) and less overpaid administrators and less overpaid central office staff. I believe that no damn Yankee can write a standardized test that any southern kid can do well on. Likewise no southern person can write a standardized test that a northern kid can do well on..
More teachers in the classroom.
Money for Classroom technology.
Teach the 3 R’s.
Some of this can be achieved by saving money on paying for the above mentioned standardized test.
And if we get the children all the way to graduation! we will need affordable colleges for then to attend.
The citizens of GA will have to make this happen as the state government is not going to do anything.
GA is nearly LAST in Education and First in political corruption.
RCB
June 28th, 2012
8:07 pm
So what do you do about the parents who choose other “accessories.” They have the ultimate responsibility, and too many of us are tired of subsidizing poor choices. Obviously, throwing money at it is not the solution. We’ve increased spending every year since 1965.
TCCB
June 28th, 2012
8:08 pm
@Tired of Teaching: You hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!
Baby
June 28th, 2012
8:22 pm
Dekalb pays it’s Superintendent more than the Gov. of GA, she gets a 40k expense account, her main office is overstaffed by over 350 redundant positions, and instead of letting people go, they’re reassigning everyone on the friends and family plan to new titles. They raised own budgets by 4 million dollars this year. And the first thing any of these people can think of to do, is raise taxes and fire teachers. Anyone who votes to reelect any of these people are total idiots, and deserve what they get.
Good Mother
June 28th, 2012
8:26 pm
RCB said it “So what do you do about the parents who choose other “accessories.” in response to Maureen’s claim that “I believe the accessories of poverty — poor nutrition, homelessness or changing apartments every two months, bunking on grandmom’s couch, lack of medical attention, including eyesight, addictions — contribute to the gap.”
The word “Contributes” — is key. Contributes is NOT the cause of….
There are other “accessories” that contribute too — such as CHOOSING to have children when you are poor and uneducated. I would go so far to say that was the CAUSE — not just a “contributes.”
We ALL give to the poor involuntarily through our tax dollars and most of us give voluntarily through our own efforts of hard work and more donations BUT…I cannot force a black man to value his race and his own children more than he values unprotected intercourse. That’s a personal value and a sub-cultural value. Black men, as a group, do not respect women and do not respect the unity of the family. There is a reason for the very sad term “baby daddy.” A “baby daddy” isn’t a father. He is a sperm donor. A father protects and provides for his children and their mother. A mother protects and provides important things for her children and both impart family values. Sadly, what many black Atlanta women value is their physical appearance more than their own education and their children’s education. We’ve heard time and again from teachers on this blog about the $100 tennis shoes on the feet of free-lunch children. I earn a solid middle class salary and my kids wear $15 tennis shoes from Ross and Target and they get an $11 hair cut at Great Clips. I pay for their lunch. I donate to the classroom supplies and my butt is in that classroom for every volunteer position I can get out of work to do.
Maureen should know that it isn’t the truly poor who are bringing us down. It’s the ones who choose to stay mired in it by their own personal decisions that we resent.
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
9:01 pm
Wow. Many of the comments today really sadden me. Race isn’t the problem, money is. If you are born poor and without hope or encouragement, you face a major uphill battle. Quite frankly, you may not have the genes to overcome it. This is such a simple and self evident fact that I don’t see how folks can fail to grasp it.
I have yet to see race as a factor of success at Woodward where my daughter goes to school…………. I wish all could be color blind.
David
June 28th, 2012
9:04 pm
@Kris…..clearly, based on results, teachers are overpaid!
Bernie
June 28th, 2012
9:04 pm
And This is AMERICA! We all should be ashamed of such statistics when we all are living in the RICHEST NATION on the PLANET, and with in driving distance in any direction we can witness other Americans who are barely surviving the basic necessities of LIFE. FOOD – HEALTHCARE – HOUSING.
These stats say more of who we truly are, than what we think we are!
David
June 28th, 2012
9:05 pm
@Kris….I know, not your fault you get stuck with the dumbass black, hispanic or white trash student!
Vince
June 28th, 2012
9:06 pm
How does Gwinnett keep outperforming counties like Cobb and Fulton, despite their demographic changes?
Sad.....
June 28th, 2012
9:09 pm
As an African American male who had a masters degree, my dad was a great high school athlete. my grandparents are illiterate on my paternal side, however every grandchild has a college degree. We were the definition of poor, hardworking folk from rural georgia.
Many blacks who view sports think its their way out of poverty really. That’s the ultimate goal is to have money in all this.
Kris (pondering )
June 28th, 2012
9:13 pm
@ DAVId
Thank a teacher that you are intelligent enough to post.
Further more thank Al GOOrey for inventing the internet. So you could make this post.
Nuff said…
Kris (pondering )
June 28th, 2012
9:16 pm
@ David , did you pull a republican move and have to gettsome one to write your 2nd post?
OBAMA 2012
Fred ™
June 28th, 2012
9:17 pm
@ DAVId
Thank a teacher that you are intelligent enough to post.
Wow. That was particularly insipid. How does a teacher affect ones intelligence? You either have it or you don’t. I taught myself how to read when I was three and NEVER had a teacher teach me a damn thing except that I needed to shut up and quit asking questions they couldn’t answer.
Truth Today
June 28th, 2012
9:24 pm
Well, I find myself intrigued and energized by the comments on this blog. There seems to be a skewed response toward culture which is clearly associated with race. As an African-American with a doctorate, I find that such opportunities as provided by this blog cannot be overlooked. First, as an educator, I would agree that it is culture. However, by no means should culture be a scapegoat. I have seen student perform overwhelmingly well even when they come from poverty and subcultures as many of you allude to. If one delves into the data, you will see that there are many students in those low-performing school districts that outperform students in higher performing districts. The data must be viewed and analyzed without making blanket assertions that imply every student is a victim of their culture. Unfortunately, the African-American subculture does include elements of over-socialization and low priority for education among many families. However, the context of this sub-culture must be recognized. The children of poverty did not ask to be born into such conditions. Truth be told, their parents did not request to be born into poverty. Going even further back, their ancestors did not implore to be born into poverty. Yes, many, I say most, African-Americans have escaped the cycle of poverty through their own efforts resulting from their own individual and family values of hard work, love and respect for education, and their desire to overcome historical poverty. It is most unfortunate that Blacks are a group that have many families overcome by the cycle of systemic poverty as a result of America’s history. Now, this is no excuse for remaining in poverty. But the reality is that systemic poverty becomes a cycle that is self-defeating and difficult to break although not impossible. For many Americans to abase African-Americans of poverty as they ride upon the privileges their descendants were afforded because they were White although immigrants in this country, while African-Americans were systemically and systematically denied access to opportunities, and therefore wealth, is hypocritical, uninformed, and unsympathetic at best. Yes, African-Americans had to fight for the right to access jobs, create and sustain businesses, obtain loans to purchase assets, and to just be respected as an equal. This fight continues for many of poverty. This fight for economic equality is revealed in student achievement data. The relationship between income level and student achievement has been established. The relationship between poverty and culture is established. Therefore, the relationship between culture and achievement is logical. However, group culture is not created in a year but over a period many decades or centuries. The culture is a result of external forces and internal inclinations that merge to forge a culture that is often difficult or impossible to change without very intentional decisions. Yes, there are many African-Americans that changed and continue to change their outcomes although they were born into a sub-culture that they did not create. However, as the test data reveals, there are many African-Americans in the metro Atlanta area, that have yet to overcome the sub-culture of their birth that is often rooted in poverty and the elements that define such. Unfortunately, a challenge for African-Americans of poverty is that of acknowledging decisions they must make to overcome historical poverty and it’s consequences during a time in history when the decendants of those who greatly contributed to their sub-culture of poverty, seem to blame them for their reality without ever acknowledging the context of their poverty or by remaining in denial of how their present actions of criticism and defamation and their past actions contributed to the sub-culture that currently imprisons them. If one takes a look at the context of anonymous comments on blogs on any website, you will see how challenging it is for African-Americans to merge into the mainstream due to the mainstream’s adamant degradation and accalamtion of their inferiority in most, if not all areas of group comparisons. Well, what is the answer? The answer is multifaceted in nature and application. First, Blacks must ensure that they adhere to family values of marriage although historical poverty has given them the message that marriage is not worth the effort. Secondly, Blacks must recognize as a whole that 7 out of 10 children born to unmatched men and women is a major contributor to the failure as evidenced in the high prison rates of fatherless young men, and now women, as evidenced by the number of children living with mothers below the poverty line, as evidenced by the number of African-Americans that drop-out of school, and as evidenced by the number of African-American children without health insurance. Thirdly, African-Americans must build community pride and financial resources by opening and supporting businesses in their communities and other communities while also spending less on material things and increasing their cash assets. Fourthly, African-Americans must continue to ignore those who blame them for society’s ills while also acknowledging the negative aspects of their culture by abhorring any value that compromises their efforts toward becoming a model group. Fifthly, African-Americans must spend less time being influenced by the negative aspects of the White mainstream while also adhering to the positive aspects of African-American culture that contributed to the greatness of this nation. Finally, African-Americans should become internationally connected by building relationships with groups beyond the borders of the United States to ensure that we convey the message fitting of our great history tonthe world thereby showing the world that the image portrayed by White America to the world has been inaccurate and wholly the result of White America’s denial of their own shortcomings and contribution to the sub-culture that they are so apt to highlight, abase, or criticize in lieu of recognizing their behaviors and actions that contributed to the plight of approximately 12 percent of the American population. In conclusion, the rise of Hispanics will cause the role of African-Americans to become less spectrumized thereby contributing to our silent rise. Yes, we have fought for freedom. Yes, we have fought for equal access to education. Yes, we fought for equal access to facilities. Yes, we have fought for equal access to jobs. Yes, we have fought for equal access to wealth. Now, it is time for us to fight for OURSELVES. It is time for us to improve ourselves, our families, and our schools, and our communities. We have been fighting to give ourselves that which others obtained by privilege, now we must fight to give ourselves the privilege of being who God wants us to be regardless of what White America and other groups think of us. Then, and only then, will the student achievement equal or exceed that of other groups.
This is just my opinion.
Really?
June 28th, 2012
9:48 pm
Forgive our Good Mother. She struggles mightily with gender issues.
Lee
June 28th, 2012
11:24 pm
@Maureen says: “Just a preemptive strike against the usual suspects who will argue it’s racial.”
Take it a step further Maureen and look at the test score distribution within those three districts and I will wager they will follow a predictive pattern, high to low, of Asian/White at the top with Hispanic/Black at the bottom.
…. just as it was a few weeks ago when you posted the systems with the top SAT scores in Ga.
William Casey
June 28th, 2012
11:35 pm
GOODMOTHER goes a little overboard on the sports thing from time-to-time but, fundamentally, she is correct. Academics in Georgia have long been subordinated to athletics. This is coming from someone who coached basketball, football and baseball for over 20 years and who loves sports. I’ll give one stark example among many. In 1986, after 11 years of teaching and coaching, I took a sabatical to begin a doctorate program, knowing that I’d need a job in 1987 ($$$). I interviewd for a job at Fulton County’s Crestwood High School (now Chattahoochee.) My academics mattered little (modesty prevents elaboration but some are listed in the ‘71 edition of Who’s Who in American Universities LOL.) I got the job because I could coach football!!! The students got lucky because I could also flat-out teach. It isn’t always like that.
Until we seperate athletics from the high school (do them as associated clubs), academics will not significantly improve. Goodmother is right about this.
Confused
June 28th, 2012
11:56 pm
Forsyth county is only 76% white?? Have the demographics in that county really changed that quickly?? Wasn’t that county all-white a decade ago?
jennylyon
June 29th, 2012
3:52 am
Although past recessions have been easier on college grads than high school grads, the needs of a “”21st century economy”" have magnified the stark difference between education level and joblessness that is why we need degree from High Speed Universities
Good Mother
June 29th, 2012
7:00 am
Sad says it ver well. He or she says “Many blacks who view sports think its their way out of poverty really. That’s the ultimate goal is to have money in all this.”
Exactly. They are hanging their hopes on something that will likely never happen. The chances of a young kind making to a pro sports career are miniscule and that is what has to change about that sub-culture. It has to change to hanging their hopes on academics instead and changing their attitudes about having children until they are mature enough and able enough financially.
The NAACP has just recognized this — that poor blacks hang their hopes on the lottery just as they do a pro sports career. The chance of winning the lottery is even less than the chance of getting a pro sports career. But look at what the NAACP does — they want to make the lottery ILLEGAL. Yes, instead of educating their race to NOT play the lottery they want to force everyone else to stop playing it. Again, where is the effort to make an indivicual accountable for his or her own actions?
If playing the lottery is a bad idea for poor blacks, theNAACP should educate poor blacks to NOT play the lottery and waste their money on a fool’s game. Spend those dollars on pencils and paper and food. But instead, we all have to quit playing so that others don’t have to be accountable for their own actions. I guess then we need to make alcohol illegal again so that a few others won’t have to be accountable for their own actions either? When will this end? An individual has to stand up and take control of their own lives. We gladly help those who help themselves. It’s all the ones who blame us for their own choices that we resent.
Good Mother
June 29th, 2012
7:18 am
To Really? We all struggle mightily with gender issues. When the black male gender decides to create children and not pay for them — then we ALL struggle to pay for the children he created and abandoned. It becomes a gender issue for all of us…including you.
NONPC
June 29th, 2012
8:27 am
I believe the accessories of poverty — poor nutrition, homelessness or changing apartments every two months, bunking on grandmom’s couch, lack of medical attention, including eyesight, addictions — contribute to the gap.
Maureen
Those students only make up a tiny fraction of the “impoverished”. Sorry, but your emotions are getting in the way of your common sense.
RCB
June 29th, 2012
10:05 am
The USDA asks that you “text” them your information for free children’s meals this summer (for the poor) and they will provide you the nearest location to get the free meals. Texting assumes you have a cell phone, an accessory. I’m sure they all have the basic phone, too–not a smartphone.
Brit
June 29th, 2012
10:20 am
@ Truth Today. Thank you for posting one of the most well-expressed and intelligent comments I have seen on this blog. I am sick of people bashing the African-American ‘culture’ without any thought to context or history.
ELMom
June 29th, 2012
11:19 am
“The minority kids in those schools are encouraged to compete academically” BINGO!!! Regardless of race or economics this is what should be happening in schools from day 1. If you set expectations children will rise to those expectations. I have walked into too many failing APS schools and seen a culture where not much is expected of the children and the staff do not have a clear direction from their leaders and therefore do not have set expectations themselves. The politics, p.c.ness, bureaucracy etc. must stop so that we can fix our education system.
@skipper Let me first say that the issue is most definitely cultural. There are many facets of black society. Unfortunately with the popularity of Madea, hip-hop etc. most people only see on facet of black society. “When other blacks try to do better, their own often hold them back” This is called the crawfish theory. Crawfish when in a pot of boiling hot water will pull each other back into the pot. None of them can escape. This is a problem that we must admit to so that we can fix it. Someone on this site recently commented that one of APS’ high achieving charter schools that has a high poverty and high minority population is “bougie”. Too sad…
@ Good Mother Please do not get me started on the NAACP and their lack of encouraging individual accountability. They need some serious refocus as they have lost site of their original mission which was to empower black Americans to better themselves. Instead the NAACP continues to insist on encouraging people to blame someone else for their problems. Playing the lottery to much? blame the system they force you to buy a ticket. Your kids are skipping school? Blame the system. They don’t have enough truancy officers to stop your kid from skipping.
The Weekly Reader (06/29) | Leonard Presberg
June 29th, 2012
2:40 pm
[...] week of June, it’s also CRCT results week: Fayette County did very well, but of course, as Maureen Downey points out, we do have an advantage: The highest-scoring metro systems were Fayette, Forsyth and [...]
Jarod Apperson
June 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
I am surprised to hear that some do not believe income is tied to achievement.
Income is undeniably tied to achievement, and not just at the low end. Take a look at the wealthiest white enclaves and you will see that kids who live in Morningside’s million dollar homes outscore middle-class white kids by leaps and bounds. A huge part of a child’s education comes from interaction with their parents and community. If parents have bachelor’s degrees, or better yet graduate degrees, and high-income jobs, their kids are very likely to excel.
IMO, it has nothing to do with race. However, these discussion end up centering on race because it’s the information our government chooses to collect and provide. The state doesn’t provide parental education level. The state doesn’t provide income of parents (though they do provide percent “economically disadvantaged,” there is a wide range within that category and no income data is provided for those not “economically disadvantaged”).
Show me the scores of black/white/asian/hispanic kids whose parents both graduated with honors from UGA and earn $100,000 per year. I seriously doubt there will be a meaningful difference between the races performance.
I believe the racial lenses we use in these discussions are largely proxies for education and income. If the state would collect and provide that data, I suspect we could better focus our energies on the real problems and stop misunderstanding everything as race driven.
teacher&mom
June 30th, 2012
9:25 am
I work in a rural district. Race isn’t an issue. Poverty is an issue. We have around 60% of our population receiving free & reduced lunches. I suspect we have another 10-20% who miss the eligibility by less than $10K/year.
Poverty is the issue that no one wants to address. Why? Because to address it at the classroom level means more spending.
We live in a State that bitterly resents education funding.
IMHO, here’s how we could begin to address the poverty achievement gap.
1-Fund summer school for elementary students who are trailing behind their peers and students who are eligible for free/reduced lunch. Make the summer school a vibrant educational experience….not a worksheet/computer test-prep session. Keep them in school year-round, but make the summer session fun and educational.
2- Create summer work-based learning for students in middle school and high school. Allow them to earn credit toward graduation and experience on-the-job training. Schools will have to provide transportation and perhaps meals….but just think about the long-term benefits for the student. (You will be surprised at the number of students living in poverty who are unable to get their driver’s license at age 16.)
3- Stop relying on standardized test scores as the ONLY measure of success.
Good Mother
June 30th, 2012
4:51 pm
Jarrod Apperson says “I am surprised to hear that some do not believe income is tied to achievement.”
Bad personal decisions cause and maintain poverty. In these times with JIm Crow long behind us and Title iX long behind us, there is absolutely no excuse to remain in poverty. The road to middle-class is education. It is a long road for sure with work along the way but it is well-marked and well-traveled. One just has to choose to take that road.
Good Mother
June 30th, 2012
7:03 pm
Brit says “I am sick of people bashing the African-American ‘culture’ without any thought to context or history.”
Which translates to “the cause is slavery” which is over 200 years ago.
Brit, let’s go with your argument that slavery causes blacks to remain poor. If all black Americans remained poor, you might have a flicker of an argument but you don’t because a significant number of blacks who came from slavery chose education and are now middle and upper class citizens. Michelle O’Bama is a great example. She descended from slaves. She is tall and athletic and deliberately did not choose a basketball scholarship to college. She chose academics. She studied and succeeded and she chose a man for her that would be (and is) a good husband and father.
So your argument that slavery causes blacks to be poor is disproven by Michelle herself and others like her and if you want to go even further — Michelle is black AND a woman. Title IX helped her as it helped me.
Our grandparents had a beef; they had a right to say “it ain’t fair — I can’t succeeed because of barriers — but for our generation (Michelle’s generation and younger) there is simply no excuse. Education is free and available. The government and our society provide access to it and encourage it. It is the sub-culture of black-Americans that discourages education and this is a RECENT occurrence. MLK and all the civil rights leaders got their heads bashed in and died for the right to an education — and they won it. Sadly though, that generation’s grandchildren throw that opportunity away and dismiss it as “acting white,” that is a new occurrence and is not caused by slavery over 200 years ago.
and by the way I’ve never heard the term “unmatched” parents. Men and women aren’t “matched” like socks. We choose our mates. and the point you’re making is moot. “Unmatched” parents aren’t the cause of poverty — it’s the lack of commitment to providing emotionally and financially for the children that causes poverty. One does not have to be “matched” at all or ever. I have single friends that have chosen not to marry and have a child by a real sperm donor — and they’re doing great because they were mature enough and financially able to provide for that child. One doesn’t have to be “matched” as you say one just have to be committed to the children.
Good Mother
July 1st, 2012
7:48 am
Jarod, you say “Show me the scores of black/white/asian/hispanic kids whose parents both graduated with honors from UGA and earn $100,000 per year. I seriously doubt there will be a meaningful difference between the races performance.”
Jarod, you are making a good point. When individuals of any race choose an education, they can and do succeed. That is proof that there is little, if any, discrimination that causes poverty. Just as you said, when anyindividual of any race chooses an education, they are financially successful.
Now, go see the flip side. Go look at poor Americans of all races. Look at their financial and education outcomes. Asians and Indians succeed academically EVEN WHEN they are poor. Black and Hispanic Americans don’t succeed academically. Whites are somewhere in the middle.
It’s about the beliefs and values of the sub-cultures in America and the family and individual values.
I believe no one race has the corner on innate intelligence. We have geniuses and low intelligence in every race. It’s values.
It’s a simple equation:
Our values=we spend(time+money)
Where we spend our time and money determines our real values. For most black and white Americans, sports is valued most and academics least. For Indian and Asian Americans, academics is valued most and sports least. The outcomes are the proof.
Jarod Apperson
July 1st, 2012
10:30 am
Good Mother, there’s a lot more that goes into the picture than “values.” Knowledge is a big part too. If a child starts falling behind at age two (which has been shown to be the case for those who struggle in school), it’s hard to say he just doesn’t have a good values system. How can a two year old be self responsible? An 18 year old can, but by the time he gets old enough to be self responsible, he is in a huge hole. The same thing probably happened to his mother and father. Not to detract from the success of Asian Americans, but there are lots of barriers to entry that exist for Asians compared to say Hispanics. So to some extent the Asians that make it to the USA are a pre-selected bunch. Unless schools are able to overcome the disadvantages some kids enter with, the cycle of poverty will continue. I just don’t think that’s an issue of race or values, but it’s a result of the huge disadvantages a child starts out with whose parents have less vocabulary, or can’t read well, or don’t understand math. Even if the parents have amazing values, that’s a lot of challenges to overcome. It does happen. Just not as often as we would like.
Good Mother
July 1st, 2012
1:15 pm
Jarod, once again you are missing the point and this time it’s purposeful. You’re dodging the issue.
the issue IS NOT the two year old. Let me repeat — the issue is NOT the two year old. They are innocent of course.
The issue is the ADULT BLACK MALE who decides to create the baby that he and his (I’ll use the new black term coined by a poster here)…the issue is the ADULT BLACK MALE who decides to create the baby tht he and his “unmatched partner” make a decision to create and then abandon for we taxpayers to care and provide for.
That’s a sub-cultural value — WHEN to bear children. Should humans create babies they are too poor and too immature to care for? WHy of course they should. That’s their cultural value — just make babies for others to care for….
and the NAACP should be pulling out all the stops and making it their mission to EDUCATE their people to postpone child creation until they are emotionally and financially able.
So, Jarod, stop dodging the facts and the truth. No one would argue that it is OK to produce children one is unable to care for.
Your silly little argument that I was blaming a two-year old is just ridiculous.
Good Mother
July 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
Jarod you write “but there are lots of barriers to entry that exist for Asians compared to say Hispanics. So to some extent the Asians that make it to the USA are a pre-selected bunch.”
Baloney, Jarod.
Asians work at nail salons and SAVE their money to send for their family members. There is no pre-selection there. They aren’t the best and the brightest of the Asians — they do have a sub-cultural value though. FATHERS, real fathers, care for the children as do the mothers and they study, educated themselves and succeed.
Your assertions are just silly. You’ll say anything to escape responsibility. It’s typical.
So just tell me this, Jarod. What excuse do you provide for having children and more children and more children — oh six, seven eight baby daddy’s? Tell me your silly excuse for that. I guess it’s all my fault, isn’t it? I’m not black so I forced them to have unprotected intercourse, right?
Sheesh.
You and your kind will continue to wallow in poverty with that attitude.
Jarod Apperson
July 1st, 2012
4:25 pm
Adults were at one point two year olds. My point was that it’s a cycle that starts before children are old enough to be self responsible.
I personally do not “wallow in poverty.” I also don’t think that we are having a productive dialogue, so I will leave it here.
The truth hurts
July 1st, 2012
9:32 pm
Call it what you want, but it all revolves around discipline. The top schools take care of problem children and the bottom schools do not. I have personally sent two kids this year packing because they couldn’t behave and do their work (not because of disabilities). This is the only reason private schools tend to do well. It’s not the teachers but the administrations fault if their school fails. Fortunately, we don’t have the volume of behavior problems in Forsyth yet but it is coming. The irony is that if schools act on the problem children then the state classifies the school as unsafe which jeopardizes he admins jobs. So it is a lose lose battle for public schools with a high percentage of problem children.
So…. It’s not race, it’s not culture, it’s not ses; it’s discipline….Period. We need to rethink the idea of every child gets a free education to a more appropriate idea of you get it until you screw up your chances.
Anyone disagree!!
The truth hurts
July 1st, 2012
9:36 pm
One more thing….to encourage parental participation, parents making below a certain income level, say 50,000, should get a tax break if their student does as told and stay out of trouble. If not they should pay a tax penalty for wasting our time and tax dollars!!!
Brit
July 3rd, 2012
10:15 am
@GM I think you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. Where exactly did I write “the cause is slavery”? You put it in quotation marks although you seem to be the first person who said it. What I said was I am sick of people making comments about AA culture without any understanding of context. Your comment about slavery goes to show how poor your understanding of history is.
Oh, and I am British. We have the same problem with Black Britons failing at school. Many of them are not descended from slaves.