DOE releases statewide CRCT results: More kids exceed, but slight decline in some math, science scores
From DOE on this year’s CRCT results:
The 2012 Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests (CRCT) results show more students are exceeding the standards than last year. Results also showed a one-year improvement in the percentage of students meeting and exceeding on 20 of the 30 content-area tests.
“The best news in the 2012 CRCT report is that more of our students are exceeding the standards,” said State School Superintendent Dr. John Barge. “Teachers are doing a great job teaching the more rigorous Georgia Performance Standards and they are to be applauded for raising expectations for all students.”
Exceeding the Standards: One Year Improvement on 24 of the 30 Content-Area Tests
- Grade 3: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percentage of students exceeding the standard in Reading, English/Language Arts, Mathematics, Science, and Social Studies increased by 7, 3, 3, 3, and 4 percentage points, resp
- Grade 4: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percentage of students exceeding the standard in Reading, English/Language Arts, Science, and Social Studies increased by 6, 1, 4, and 2 percentage points, respectively. The percentage of students exceeding the standard in Mathematics remained the same.
- Grade 5: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percent of students exceeding the standard in English/Language Arts, Science, and Social Studies increased by 5, 4, and 1 percentage point, respectively. The percentage of students exceeding the standard decreased by 2 points in Reading and 5 points in Mathematics.
- Grade 6: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percent of students exceeding the standard in Reading, Mathematics, Science, and Social Studies increased by 6, 2, 4, and 4 percentage points, respectively. The percentage of students exceeding the standard remained the same for English/Language Arts.
- Grade 7: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percent of students exceeding the standard in Reading, English/Language Arts, Mathematics, Science, and Social Studies increased by 3, 5, 6, 6, and 4 percentage points, respectively.
- Grade 8: When comparing 2012 performance to 2011, the percent of students exceeding the standard in Reading, Science, and Social Studies increased by 4, 1, and 3 percentage points, respectively. The percent of students exceeding the standard decreased by 3 percentage points in English/Language Arts, and remained the same in Mathematics.
Meets and Exceeds the Standards: One Year Improvement on 20 of the 30 Content-Area Tests
When comparing the percentage of students meeting or exceeding the standard, the greatest gains were seen in grade 5 Social Studies (+6 percentage points) and grade 8 Science (+7 percentage points). There were decreases in four areas: grade 3 Science (-2 percentage points), grade 4 Mathematics (-1 percentage point), grade 5 Mathematics (-3 percentage points), and grade 8 Mathematics (-1 percentage point). There were no changes on six tests.
“While I am pleased to see an increase in the majority of the exams, I am concerned about those where we saw decreases or no change at all,” said State School Superintendent Dr. John Barge. “As we begin teaching the Common Core Georgia Performance Standards next school year, we know the curriculum and the tests will be more difficult, so we must continue to focus on successfully implementing the new standards. We have been offering, and will continue to offer, teachers the necessary professional development to ensure they are equipped to deliver these new, more rigorous standards and to prepare our students for the next step.”
Promotion/Retention: State law requires that students in third, fifth, and eighth grade meet or exceed expectations on the CRCT in Reading in order to be promoted. Fifth and eighth grade students must also meet or exceed expectations on the CRCT in Mathematics
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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84 comments Add your comment
Tony
June 14th, 2012
10:41 am
Even though CRCT is “de-emphasized” we will continue testing children ad nauseum. There is no reduction in the amount of testing that will take place in our schools. However, we can expect to see increases.
Bernie
June 14th, 2012
10:44 am
Great News and congratulations to All of the Teachers and Students for such an improvement. These results also demonstrate that the current public educational system can do it its job as designed. Would love to see the numbers in comparison
to the charter schools performance as well. It would also be interesting to see just how the local private religious schools and those who are home schooled as well.
But wait…. those two groups do not believe in such testing. But somehow there is this
false perception that they are somehow more superior. Compared to WHAT!
Sandy Springs Parent
June 14th, 2012
10:55 am
My 6th grader tells me the CRCT’s are so easy! That they are just such a joke. Then she tells me the kids who struggle with them are so dumb. All this says is why do we have these same kids mixed together. Teacher’s can not differniate to so many students at so many different levels. It is the smarter kids who get left behind and are bored. Mine just doesn’t want to go to school.
It is time to save alot of money and get rid of the CRCT, and all of the wasted prep time. Just have the IOWA tests. The IOWA tests works fine for all the better Private schools. I as a parent just ignore the CRCT. I just care about the IOWA, since they show me where my children are based on national norms.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
June 14th, 2012
11:00 am
The CRCT is an expensive yet poor substitute for the Iowa Test of Basic Skills(ITBS). But the former accomplished its mission of keeping “heat” off GA educRATS for our kids’ poor comparative academic performances while these slick talkers stashed away CHEESE in the form of millions of dollars in taxpayers’ funds. These scarce funds could have beenbetter used to pay teachers for full work-years and to buy them instructional supplies.
old school doc
June 14th, 2012
11:00 am
I agree with “Sandy” about the IOWA tests–bring ‘em back!
Road Scholar
June 14th, 2012
11:06 am
The improvements are good, but…
Somehow we need to get the parents and students attention regarding non performance. Take away their calculators and cell phones and tv rights…..and game boys. If that doesn’t work, begin “boot camps” to teach self discipline and the merits of “doing their jobs”. Don’t reward truancy, or disinterest.
The math scores are pitiful.How will we compete on the global market, regardless of career choice?
mystery poster
June 14th, 2012
11:14 am
The Iowa tests are norm referenced tests, they test how well a student does compared to others taking the same tests.
The CRCTs are criterion referenced tests, they measure how well a student knows a particular amount of skills.
You cannot compare one to another, they measure different things.
NTLB
June 14th, 2012
11:16 am
I takes a GOOD Math teacher to teach Math well. Not all math teachers are good math teachers. I failed Alegbra in high school because I had a horrible teacher, I exceeded in Geometry because my teacher was awesome. I taught myself Algebra in order to pass the Praxis and GRE exams. Surprisingly enought my math scores were higher than my verbal scores and I scored in the top percentiles.
My point is: Knowing Math, does not mean you are good at teaching Math. Math teachers need to be amongst the group of best teachers in the building if we want to see better results.
Teaching Math programs in our colleges and universities need to be revisted.
Entitlement Society
June 14th, 2012
11:29 am
Yes, the Iowa tests would be a good idea, but do you really think public educators would want the ability to have their students compared to private school students taking the same test?
GwinnettParentz
June 14th, 2012
11:32 am
Sadly, few readers will have confidence in those CRCT test scores. Only a gnawing certainty that the more things “change” in public K-12 education—the more they will remain the same.
drew (former teacher)
June 14th, 2012
11:32 am
“Promotion/Retention: State law requires that students in third, fifth, and eighth grade meet or exceed expectations on the CRCT in Reading in order to be promoted.”
That one always makes me chuckle.
If they actually retained all of those who failed to meet expectations, third, fifth and eighth grades would be bursting at the seams. Fact is, very few will be retained. Some will attend summer school and be promoted (whether they improve or not). But most will be socially promoted until they reach high school, where they finally learn something: they learn that they actually have to EARN a passing grade in order to be promoted in high school. And come to the sobering realization that because they didn’t learn the basics in grades K-8, they have very little chance of successfully navigating HS, and drop out.
And we wonder why our graduation rate is so pitiful.
SBinF
June 14th, 2012
11:33 am
Great point. Private schools can pick and choose whom to accept. Public schools take any and everyone. I’m sure that’s what ‘Entitlement Society’ means.
GwttParenttz
June 14th, 2012
11:34 am
Sadly, few readers will have confidence in those CRCT test scores. Only a gnawing certainty that the more things “change” in public K-12 education—the more they will remain the same.
Phony name
June 14th, 2012
11:35 am
Sadly, few readers will have confidence in those CRCT test scores. Only a gnawing certainty that the more things “change” in public K-12 education—the more they will remain the same.
old school doc
June 14th, 2012
11:38 am
Is there a norm-refernced test out there that parents can easily understand? The CRCT scores tell me nothing. I always end up looking at the number of correct/number of total questions to get an idea of how my kids do. For me the great thing about the ITBS is that I can understand it, and compare year to year peformance.
I wonder how many private schools would want the ability to compare their students to public school students? Some private schools I think may not fare so well in comparisons…
say what?
June 14th, 2012
11:38 am
Now if they compare last years 2,4, and 7th graders with their scores this year in 3,5, and 8, then and only then can this test be useful. Comparing this years 3rd, 5th, adn 8th graders with last years groups tells us nothing. Totally different group of children testing during those years, perhaps a different administration, slew of new teachers.
So although it is good news that the teachers did well with preparing the children, something in our testing has to change. Good job teachers! And Students!
Happy summer.
old school doc
June 14th, 2012
11:41 am
@ Drew–
Just saw a kid today who has not passed the 5th gradeCRCT twice now, but his mom defiantly proclaims that ” they can’t keep him back another year– he is going to 6th grade!”
WE are letting down so many kids by sending them on without a solid foundation…
Digger
June 14th, 2012
11:43 am
Let the spin begin.
sloboffthestreet
June 14th, 2012
11:43 am
Oh how I hate %’s. Now if a grade level at a school is compromised of say 200 students and 20 of them exceeded the standard last year, 10%, with this years rise of say 6% of the students exceeding the standard in a subject area did another 12 students exceed the standard or 1.2 students exceed the standard? Also what was the cut score for this year? Never mind, Just continue clapping!
Ron F.
June 14th, 2012
11:43 am
drew: my youngest child is one of those. He didn’t pass the reading test in 3rd grade despite meeting or exceeding every benchmark along the way. He went to summer school and failed it again, by two points. I had accepted retaining him, but when we looked at all the data, his teacher, the principal, and I together realized there was something more to it than just a single test score. Long story short, I had him evaluated, at some expense, for learning disabilities and ADHD. He was borderline on the ADHD test and fine on the rest. He didn’t test well, and that one score as a single determining factor would have unnecessarily led to this retention. Every year since, he has met or exceeded standards, and not because I’ve done anything radical to change him. He got better at taking tests and staying focused. A lot of the kids are very much like him, based on my experience as a teacher and parent.
Bonnie
June 14th, 2012
11:53 am
They never take into account those student who freeze on tests. There are some kids who just can’t handle the pressure and rightfully so. They start day 1 of a school year “practicing” for the Aprl CRCT – I think they should stick to “if you do your work and pass with good grades, then you go to the next grade – if not, you fail”. Simple like it used to be.
Dunwoody Mom
June 14th, 2012
11:57 am
But Bonnie, all those testing companies with their BILLION dollar profits would then go out of business and their campaign contributions to our politicans would cease….
Really amazed
June 14th, 2012
12:01 pm
Anyone know what the cut scores were for this years CRCT? SAT scores went down! Be very concerned!
where is my school?
June 14th, 2012
12:05 pm
How about a link to the database to check out school systems and school scores?
Dunwoody Mom
June 14th, 2012
12:06 pm
District-level results will be available no later than June 28. School-level results will be available no later than July 12.
Mom of 3
June 14th, 2012
12:16 pm
All this proves is that the teachers are doing a great job teaching for the CRCT test. It’s so sad, that anyone would get excited about this. And as said earlier in this blog, many kids find it very easy. So we are teaching to lowest common denominator and then getting excited when some of the kids improve. Who cares about the kids who were already exceeding and bored.
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:30 pm
“Promotion/Retention: State law requires that students in third, fifth, and eighth grade meet or exceed expectations on the CRCT in Reading in order to be promoted. Fifth and eighth grade students must also meet or exceed expectations on the CRCT in Mathematics”
So, Maureen, I would like to see how many students (especially in APS) have been “not promoted”.
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:32 pm
“I had accepted retaining him, but when we looked at all the data, his teacher, the principal, and I together realized there was something more to it than just a single test score.”
So does that mean he was NOT retained?
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:35 pm
“I think they should stick to “if you do your work and pass with good grades, then you go to the next grade – if not, you fail”. Simple like it used to be.”
I agree, it would be “simple like it used to be”, except for the fact that teachers give inflated grades to make themselves look better, or administrators override the teacher’s grade in order to please a “helicopter” parent. If the grades accurately reflected the skill level of the student, we would not have to have all this testing.
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:37 pm
“All this proves is that the teachers are doing a great job teaching for the CRCT test. It’s so sad, that anyone would get excited about this.”
If the CRCT tests basic command of English and Math, I am VERY excited that kids are measuring up! Maybe that means we won’t have 9th graders who read at a 2nd grade level (if they are truly “retained”).
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:39 pm
Old School Doc @ 11:41 – that is just what I am talking about – social promotion with the parent driving it. No “retention”.
mountain man
June 14th, 2012
12:42 pm
Drew (former teacher) @ 11:32 – you said it correctly.
vince
June 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
@ Entitlement Society…As a public educator of 34 years, I would welcome a comparison of ITBS scores between public and private schools. Usually, the private school students who transfer in to our school are a year or more behind us. It would be especially fun to make that comparison if we could pick the students’ scores by which the comparison was made….much like private schools do.
williebkind
June 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
If school was voluntary, we would have great students and lots of brick toters and mud makers. Then government and unions would not have much to say about schools. Just because government who takes our wages in forms of taxes and returns some of it for education should not justify government having the final say in education. Or making laws that fit only a minority. Send the minority to a charter school.
Michael Moore
June 14th, 2012
12:51 pm
It is well to remember that the crct is test made by McGraw-Hill who is now on a year to year contract with us, I assume, since their previous five-year contract ran out and the the DOE is always quiet about these things and M-H makes tests for sixteen other states all with very different performance standards. Do you really think M-G gears their test specifically for Georgia? If you do then you didn’t learn anything from the social studies and math debacles when those standards changed and didn’t fit the test. The crct does not reveal what students have actually learned. For example, key standards for third grade in the GPS include speaking and listening so we aren’t getting any measurement on half the language arts domains. Remember, too, the test can only measure literal comprehension and some basic inference so any type of analysis or synthesis is beyond the scope of this test. Actually, that’s probably a good thing for this minimum competency test because we have this crazy balancing act where we have to set the standards at a place where it is obvious we can show improvement but not too low to scare parents. Of course the best way to view the crct is in comparison to the NAEP and their standards. What does the NAEP say in terms of the numbers of third graders at the standard…what does the crct say? We hang on these test score results as if they came from a burning bush when actually they are quite meaningless. It’s just one assessment yet we attach such high stakes to it. If you want to know what your student learned and how well he/she is progressing then sit down with the teacher. This data cannot tell you anything about how good a teacher your child had.
DoctorAJ
June 14th, 2012
12:53 pm
Georgia still has a long way to go when it comes to national standards.
This will be evident in 2014 when they have common testing in 46 states.
JGrim
June 14th, 2012
12:56 pm
Thankfully, this year there wasn’t a lot of fuss made over this test at my son’s school (last year was a different story). We also have a different principal this year.
When my son was talking about the test, I told him not to worry, that the test wasn’t going to tell me anything that I didn’t already know about him. My theory was correct.
BT
June 14th, 2012
12:57 pm
@Vince, i agree, this notion that private, charter and home schools settings are better is highly overrated. We get students in our school from these settings that are behind most of the time. But we have factions that are trying to destroy public education.
BehindEnemyLines
June 14th, 2012
1:11 pm
Fairly meaningless until the erasure marks are examined.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
June 14th, 2012
1:21 pm
(M)ystery poster,
You’re wrong.
The ITBS is both a criterion- and norm-referenced test. And, as Casey Stengel used to say, “You can look it up” by “googling” the Iowa Test of Basic Skills. Read the descriptive materials provided by its publisher.
AlreadySheared
June 14th, 2012
1:43 pm
@DoctorAJ,
And I suspect that Georgia teachers have to take the GACE rather than Praxis for just that reason.
Entitlement Society
June 14th, 2012
1:49 pm
@Private School Haters (i.e. BT & Vince) – The children from my children’s private school don’t leave unless their families move out of the state or country, so I beg to differ that “the private school students who transfer in to our school are a year or more behind us,” as Vince touted. Really? To which private schools are you referring? Funny that I’ve never seen a Westminster/Lovett/Pace kid transfer to a public school and be held back a year as you claim.
Homeschooler
June 14th, 2012
1:50 pm
I agree that private, charter and homeschool academics are not always superior to public. I have no idea how my children would do on the CRCT and I really don’t care. They do take the Iowa test every year and maintain an average of about 70percent nationally. I truly believe that their scores on the Iowa would be higher if they were in a traditional school setting. The fact is they learn differently and at a different pace. They were not writing paragraphs in first grade yet their curriculum is set up to have them writing exceptional papers in high school. Their math is completely concept based. A tutor who recently worked with my son said his speed on multiplication tables is slow but his conceptual understanding of math will serve him well in calculus in high school. My point is, it is a different type of learning. My son has never written and re-written a 2 page paper about his favorite pasttime but he has summarized every chapter of 4 volumes of “Story of the World” so that he already has a phenomenal understanding of ancient – modern history. He can tell you who was president during every major war and what political party that they belonged to. He can compare Joseph Stalin to Adolf Hitler and can tell you exactly why the Japanese chose to bomb Pearl Harbor.
I don’t need a test to tell me how well my child is doing. I just need to have a conversation with him. I do think that now that he is entering middle school he needs to be familiar with a more traditional education. I want him to be successful in High School and college and to do so he will need to “make the grade” on the test. (Iowa, SAT etc..). We are determining the best route to take and only time will tell if not having a traditional K-5 education has harmed him in some way but I have confidence that he will do very well.
One thing I am 100percent sure of. My children’s character, values and confidence in themselves is not lacking in any way. The personality traits that they have gained from living and learning “outside of the box” are something I would not trade for any grades in the world.
Entitlement Society
June 14th, 2012
2:10 pm
@Homeschooler – Kudos to you for taking the time and making the effort to do what works for your children, recognizing that each is an individual and learns differently, which they obviously wouldn’t have been able to do in a government school setting with 25+ children of diverse abilities in the same classroom!!
catlady
June 14th, 2012
2:13 pm
My school will end up with about 40/200 3rd graders not passing, and less than 3 will be retained. Virtually all of them failed the “mock” CRCTs in first and second. And next year, they will repeat this same “success” in 4th grade.
Why doesn’t the state BOE put a stop to this?
Jerry Eads
June 14th, 2012
2:19 pm
Remember that the equating (linking the difficulty) from one year’s tests to the next is NEVER, EVER perfect. Slight (and sometimes major) changes can be due simply to those imperfections. Another virtual certainty is that there are slight differences from one group to the next – so the 3rd grade pass rates will bounce around a bit from year to year (even with a hundred thousand students). Fairtest’s Lisa Guisbond wrote a short “Pop Quiz on Testing” in Edweek that folks might enjoy:
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2012/06/13/35guisbond.h31.html?tkn=XLTFQyAiw2LRB8fhqYSk72dpjTtQZ3TecRRJ&cmp=ENL-EU-VIEWS1
mystery poster
June 14th, 2012
2:20 pm
@Dr. Spinks
According to the Iowa tests FAQ, they are norm referenced.
Here’s an excerpt:
Norm-referenced tests (NRTs) are designed to compare students (i.e., disperse average
student scores along a bell curve, with some students performing very well, most performing
average, and a few performing poorly). These types of tests are most appropriate when one
wishes to make comparisons across large numbers of students or important decisions regarding
student placement and advancement.
Criterion-referenced assessments (CRTs) measure how well a student performs against an
objective or criterion rather than another student. Criterion-referenced classrooms are mastery oriented,
informing all students of the expected standard and teaching them to succeed on
related outcome measures. These types of tests are most appropriate for quickly assessing what
concepts and skills students have learned from a segment of instruction.
NRTs like The Iowa Tests® provide a research-based, external validator
for districts. In addition to providing detailed information on whether your students are mastering
content skills, NRTs also gauge how well districts are doing compared to national averages.
NRTs help tell the whole story of a students’ academic progress.
Jerry Eads
June 14th, 2012
2:22 pm
Michael: precisely. I admired that you used such restraint in describing the “value” of these tests
.
mystery poster
June 14th, 2012
2:25 pm
Although I will certainly accept that the last paragraph, about students mastering skills, would give it a CRT designation also.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
June 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
@Entitlement “Yes, the Iowa tests would be a good idea, but do you really think public educators would want the ability to have their students compared to private school students taking the same test?”
My district gave the IOWA to our students, and I welcomed it! It gave me meaningful information I could actually use to plan and differentiate for my students. Unlike the CRCT which tells me very little and actually makes my job much harder. Since I cannot read the CRCT, I have no idea what my students are able to do or not do, other than the subject area – I do know several of the questions apparently confused my higher level students, but I could only say, “Do your best!” and that was it.
Furthermore, I have students who struggle all year, and who I recommend for retention, who then pass the CRCT. Then their parents are less likely to agree to retention, and the system did not want it either. Some of my lowest performing students get the test read to them, which means they can pass subjects that in a school setting they do not pass because they cannot read the material themselves. I only have so much time to read and scaffold material for them. Parents complain about grades because they do not understand how a child can fail to meet classroom standards, but can pass the CRCT. Maybe because I expect more than a 40% pass rate to master material in my class.
As for public verses private – that is an interesting one. I have had several students come to me from a private background, and although most have done fine, it was a transition for them. They were used to getting higher grades than they received with me. I am not sure why, but I suspect they were getting the grades their parents “paid for” and with me, they got the grades they earned. It took them a few less than stellar grades to really begin to understand I had expectations that they needed to meet, and they weren’t going to just be given high grades for less than their best effort. Overall, I think they may have had more learning opportunities in the private schools (field trips, lab equipment, smaller class sizes, less disruptions, etc.) but I honestly think I pushed them more to reach their full potential. I just wish I was also able to offer them (and all my students) those enriching learning opportunities.
Scores
June 14th, 2012
2:29 pm
To “Where is My School,” according to the DOE website: “District-level results will be available no later than June 28. School-level results will be available no later than July 12.”
Ron F.
June 14th, 2012
2:35 pm
mountain man: @12:32- if you read my whole post, he wasn’t retained and has either exceeded tested standards or very nearly every year since. He’s heading to high school next year and reads and writes as well as his brother who was labeled gifted in second grade. It was all about test anxiety for him. Not all kids are that lucky, but I have found that quite a few kids don’t do well on standardized tests that are capable and quite successful otherwise. I do a lot of one-on-one testing, using at least two different methods, to diagnose my struggling freshmen. Sometimes it verifies the CRCT scores, but sometimes it doesn’t. I tailor instruction based on the results of all the data, including CRCT scores, but never rely on that as a sole indicator. That’s how I get progress from my students, and it’s worth the extra work to be sure I know exactly what they can do.
Mona
June 14th, 2012
2:51 pm
If you really want to know if students are making gains, then you need to compare the scores of the same children from year to year. If you want to know if the 3rd graders tested in 2011 made gains, then you need to test them in 4th grade in 2012 & compare those scores to each other & so on & so on.
You cannot compare the 3rd graders tested in 2011 to the scores of the 3rd graders tested in 2012 & determine if the children made gains & how much they gained (or lost) when you are not comparing the scores of the same children!
You have to follow the same children throughout their school career & compare their test results year after year! Otherwise, you are comparing two different sample groups & are comparing apples and oranges!
Please learn how to correctly compare test scores because politicians & some of the people in the media want the children to fail (at least on paper) & blame the public schools & teachers. The public needs to know that, in reality, what they are saying is based on lies & false information!
These people do this so their rich buddies can open up private schools, pay the teachers nothing & their friends (and perhaps themselves) become richer & richer while they receive tax payer money in order to pay the students tutition.
Please remember, the IOWA test is a better measure of how your children are doing since you are comparing your children to the children in the rest of the country. I didn’t care how my children did on these ridiculous & wasteful state tests. I was more concerned how they were doing compared to the children in the rest of the country!
My sons are now 22 & 23. The 22 year old earned his A.A. in Culinary Arts & just earned his B.A. in Business & graduated Cum Laude from Johnson & Wales University. He has been working in a very fine dining restaurant in Fort Lauderdale since his junior year in college.
My 23 year old earned his B.A. in Accounting last year & graduated Valedictorian of the entire student body at Georgia State University. He is working as an accountant & is in the process of getting his Master’s degree & will eventually earn his CPA.
Please don’t let these people continue to be dishonest with you.
RBN
June 14th, 2012
3:29 pm
Virtually meeaningless when you only have to get half correct to meet standard.
Addie Price
June 14th, 2012
3:50 pm
I’m glad students are doing better but they are being taught to take a test instead of taught actual lessons. http://addieprice.hubpages.com/hub/High-Pressured-CRCT
Paulo977
June 14th, 2012
3:56 pm
(field trips, lab equipment, smaller class sizes, less disruptions, etc.)
___________________________________________________
Yeah trips to Fernbank science center which the Dekalb County School Superintendent is adamant about closing !!!!!!!!……..Lord help the working poor!!
Eric
June 14th, 2012
3:57 pm
Okay, so what does it really mean, that is what is the implication, of a child that meet or exceeds the standard? These are artificial benchmarks, so that if the standards are raised again, fewer children might meet the standard or not. So would one of those “experts” please explain the significance of meeting the standard? We just feel good that kids are so smart? Were kids 100 years ago dumb since they didn’t have the standards? Why do we need them now?
Paulo977
June 14th, 2012
4:07 pm
Addie Price
’m glad students are doing better but they are being taught to take a test instead of taught actual lessons. http://addieprice.hubpages.com/hub/High-Pressured-CRCT
_____________________________________________
Absolutely ….this is the REAL cheating ….not providing a learning climate for kids to explore , interact with each other , participate in hands-on activities ., and talk , talk , talk about what they are doing!!!!
justjanny
June 14th, 2012
4:10 pm
@ Sandy Springs Parent
differniate ?? Did you mean differentiate?
Old timer
June 14th, 2012
4:28 pm
No one was retained during thenlastnfewnyearsnImtaughtnin Clayton County……I had many in my sixth grade reading who had never passed the. cRCT.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
June 14th, 2012
4:33 pm
(M)ystery poster,
You didn’t read far enough.
jerry eads
June 14th, 2012
5:22 pm
Mona – you’re kinda correct, but remember that each grade’s CRCT is (supposed to be) a new version or versions every year. It takes REALLY complex statistical analyses to link those tests from year to year, and there is ALWAYS a little bit (in some cases a whole lot) of error.
The OTHER “little” problem is that we CANNOT compare, let’s say, last year’s third grade class with this year’s fourth because the tests are not scaled (the necessary incredibly complex analyses were never done to link the tests from one year to the next), even though since 1998 we COULD have compared individual students’ performance from year to year (yes, we’ve had that capacity all these years). The reason we can’t is there’s been NO outside review of whether the fourth grade “standards” have proper scope and sequence compared to the third grade “standards” scope and sequence. AND there has never been a program in place to do all the statistical analyses to relate the 3rd and 4th grade tests (or any other grade levels). Because the “standards” may not represent a proper curriculum, it may not even be possible to undertake these analyses. (At the high school level, such scaling may not be possible in any event – Physics, for example, is not a “growth” from Algebra II)
Your point about the ITBS is very well taken. While I can’t attest to the current test, several decades ago I hired VERY well respected curriculum experts to review all the then current norm-referenced tests for Virginia’s state NRT test competition. The ITBS was FAR and away the best on the market in terms of the scope and sequence of the curriculum. We, of course, picked it as the state test. To the best of my knowledge, NONE of that amazing work done to develop the ITBS was ever done to build either a state curriculum or the state minimum competency tests (the CRCTs and EOCTs and all the other CTs are nothing more than that) that are supposed to SOLELY reflect such a state curriculum. As someone noted earlier in this discussion, these tests do not come from a burning bush. – Ah. I should point out that it’s conceivable that the state knew enough to properly develop a curriculum. There’s at least one person on the state staff that has the requisite skills to do proper test development (once upon a time there were at least two, but they fired one as the fall guy for a test booboo). Proper curriculum and test development, however, take tons of dollars that I suspect the state simply could not afford.
I dearly hope that, but respectfully question whether, we will get tests from the testing club (PARCC) that will reflect what is hopefully a CURRICULUM that reflects higher order skills (and not just primarily factoid recognition) that will enable us to actually look at a reasonable representation of student growth over time. As I learned from my relatively central involvement in the New Standards Project of the 90’s, such development is incredible expensive. Let’s hope the shared investment from many states makes if affordable, and that PARCC doesn’t simply turn into another effort at scripted instruction for teachers.
KIM
June 14th, 2012
5:24 pm
ITBS and CRCT can’t be compared. They measure different things.
Bernie
June 14th, 2012
5:38 pm
Sandy Springs Parent @10:55 am – Come on now! you mean to tell me we are to take the opinion of a 6th grader as fact? I am not buying this at all and if anyone here does they are just as gullible as this Sandy Springs parent. maybe this parent will buy into such nonsense, but no one in their right mind would take anything that a 6th grades says as true and accurate. I am starting to wonder who is really making the decisions in that household. Unbelievable!
Vince
June 14th, 2012
5:48 pm
@ Doctor AJ
Sorry to bust another myth, but Georgia already does very well compared nationally. The best assessment to measure this is the NAEP. Check it out.
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/
Ed Johnson
June 14th, 2012
6:04 pm
“Please remember, the IOWA test is a better measure of how your children are doing since you are comparing your children to the children in the rest of the country.”
Now compare that with what the ITBS publisher says…
National Percentile Rank — A Percentile Rank indicating the status or relative rank of a student’s score compared to a nationally representative sample of examinees.
Source: http://www.riversidepublishing.com/scoring/glossary/default.jsp (accessed 6/14/2012)
It is your child “compared to a nationally representative sample of examinees.”
It is not “comparing your children to the children in the rest of the country.”
Let’s stop trying to make the ITBS be something other than what the ITBS publisher tells us the ITBS is.
Again…
The ITBS is a norm-referenced test. It is intentionally designed and redesigned to always rank about half of test takers above average and about half below average. It tends to include test items the more affluent get right and the more impoverished get wrong, and to exclude test items the more affluent get wrong and the more impoverished get right. Thus doing well on the ITBS simply means attaining high rank and not necessarily demonstrating learning excellence.
And when the more impoverished test takers start doing well on the ITBS, as they invariably do, a new form or a new norm for the ITBS comes out to reestablish the 50 above/50 below percentile rankings.
None of this is to say the ITBS shouldn’t be used or isn’t useful. Of course it can be. The CRCT can be useful, too, provided it is used to actually help learn to improve teaching and learning rather than for beating up on teachers and learners. But if the ITBS ends up being used like the CRCT, it should be clear that even greater damage will result.
Mark Poole
June 14th, 2012
6:40 pm
I see a lot of comments that support retention. I was just wondering what the success rate of retention is.
And the beat goes on....
June 14th, 2012
6:55 pm
And do you know why they exceeded? Poor economy. Test scores always rise during a poor economy because there is not money for remediation. The DOE cannot just let the scores rise from failing to passing; too obvious. All the scores must rise, which leads to more students exceeding. When the economy gets better, test scores will decline. Sad, but true.
testing is a joke
June 14th, 2012
7:03 pm
I find it difficult to be happy about the CRCT test results. I watched students who are in middle school pass the reading portion of the CRCT who could only read on a 3rd grade level. The reading and language arts portions of the CRCT were so easy this year, at least at the middle school level, that I would have found it more surprising if the majority of students didn’t pass. I think Georgia is wasting money on a test that really doesn’t produce reliable results. Yes, I administered the test and had to read several sections to subgroups that required it to be read to them, so I saw first hand how easy it was.
Lynn (current teacher)
June 14th, 2012
7:17 pm
Drew, YOU are soooo right. They are passed anyway (even after that sham of summer school charade) and when they stumble through ninth grade, the blame game begins. Our education system is a joke! Nothing is really earned now.
Ron F.
June 14th, 2012
7:39 pm
@ Mark Poole: Here’s a link to a paper in the Eric digest that discusses some of the recent research on retention. A simple “no pass, no promote” policy alone isn’t effective. It can be if done right. I’m not a fan of social promotion, but retention has to be a carefully made decision, based on more than just a single test score. I’ve seen it work for some kids and not others. Read this summary- hope it helps.
http://www.ericdigests.org/2001-3/policy.htm
mountain man
June 15th, 2012
6:37 am
Ron F. – you (and your cohorts) are the reason we have 9th graders who cannot read and write. The ones on the “prison track”.
ScienceTeacher671
June 15th, 2012
7:59 am
I have trouble celebrating the rest when the math scores are so abysmal.
And remember that unless a child “exceeds”, s/he is not even close to being on grade level.
Cobb County Parent
June 15th, 2012
8:58 am
I’m still laughing my _____ off about these scores. My daughter exceeded in all 4th grade categories, which would mean zippo to me as I know that CRCT is a crappy test. But… she wanted to review her scores individually, so I took the time to look further. She nailed every subject but social studies, where she basically earned an “F” with less than 60% correct. I told her this and her reply was, “But they said I exceeded expectations.” I informed her that yes, she did, but they actually expected her to FAIL in that category, so the bar was lowered. Wish you could have seen her eyes light up when she realized the joke was on her.
I then spent some time discussing the social study questions that she remembered being on the test (as you know, they wouldn’t want to share that information with the parents). She stated that the section did give her some trouble since some of the topics were never covered in class. Don’t know if this is a curriculum short-coming or her teacher’s issue. And before anyone jumps all over me about dumping on her teacher, I want to clarify that I have spent ALL of last year stressing over her somewhat uneducated teacher. I’ve even had to point out incorrect math calculations and correct her spelling “corrections” when my daughter actually spelled the word correctly in the first place. I’ve also pointed out grammatical errors to my daughter so she wouldn’t follow the leader, her teacher.
It was a hard year and I’m glad it is over. I just wonder who that teacher knows so that she kept her job (without earning “tenure”) while other more experienced teachers were let go. Disgusting!
Ron F.
June 15th, 2012
9:11 am
@mountain man 6:37- Tell you what, you come do it for a while and get back to me about how to do it better. I’ve spent a lot of years teaching the kids you often look down upon, and I see much more progress from them than the “good” kids. It takes patience, love, and a hell of lot of determination. I don’t always agree with you, but I never resort to such a despicable level of commentary about your views. You have no idea how hard I work, and if you think education would be better without me and my “cohorts” then get your degree and get yourself in a classroom.
AlreadySheared
June 15th, 2012
9:26 am
We’re past that now, but I always thought the CRCTs were a joke. I never spent a minute with either kid on practice tests or whatnot and they always killed it.
What a waste of time, for the test prep in school, the testing time itself, and then the anticlimactic lost 4 weeks AFTER the tests are done when effectively some schools simply grind to a halt.
Mama Mia
June 15th, 2012
5:39 pm
My son EXCEEDED expectations on all portions of the CRCT with the exception of science (he met expectations and was short of exceeding by 8 points). Report card was all A+. Grounds for boasting right? But wait… he barely passed the 8th grade writing test. Oh, and on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills he came out in the 78th percentile.
Truth in Moderation
June 15th, 2012
10:22 pm
This year two of my home schoolers had some interesting test results.
My 5th grader has dyscalculia which not only puts him at a disadvantage for math testing but also TIMED testing. His 2nd grade ITBS scores were lower than they should have been, based on his daily subject work and curriculum tests. This time around, I opted for the Stanford 10 because it is not timed. I wanted to know what he knows, not how well he performs under a time constraint. Also, to help with his arithmetic disability, I have been drilling him daily, year round, since he was five. This is what it takes to help him improve in these skills. The hard work and test selection paid off. His Total Math was 84th percentile, Total Language was 96th percentile, and Science was 93 percentile. I plan for him to take the timed ITBS for 6th grade next year and compare.
My 9th grader has had chronic health issues, which have worsened over the past year. It interfered with his home schooling to the point that I decided to have him repeat 9th grade, mainly because there were days he didn’t have the strength to complete all of his work. However, I decided to have him take the timed 9th grade ITBS anyway, just to see where he needed help. In the past he has been a great test taker and usually scores in the 92+ percentile range. While some of his scores did drop, overall they were still quite good, even with this year’s difficulties. His reading total was 82nd percentile, his Math Total: 96th percentile, Core total: 90th percentile, Social Studies: 95th percentile,
Science: 98th percentile, and Composite: 92 percentile.
Steve
June 16th, 2012
6:07 am
As long as you have politicians involved in education they will continue to push their own agendas. As long as you have all the money involved in testing it will never be about knowledge assessment. As long as you have multiple guess questions it will be about test taking skills. Why is it that the lawyers are governed by lawyers? Why are doctors controlled by doctors. Why are kids manipulated by politicians? Because WE allow it. So, all these posts are just venting with no real changes that benefit those that are our future. Finally, who is really responsible for a child’s education? The teacher who has them for a maximum of 180 hours in a year or is it the parent? Lots of delusions of reality with little acceptance of responsibility by most.
sassyteacher
June 17th, 2012
7:32 am
More kids exceeded on the CRCT math and science this year because the test was easier. I administered the fifth grade test for the past 6 years, and the test last year required more higher level thinking and problem solving skills. This year, the test questions, at least for math and science, were much lower level, computational, memorize and spit back information types of questions.
I agree with using only the Iowa test to gauge students’ overall knowledge base. National normed tests are the tests used in qualifying students for gifted programs across Georgia, not standards based tests, like the CRCT. There is a reason for that. The CRCT is a joke. However, if we used Iowa test results to provide a snapshot of the academic standing of our students in Georgia, we would be sick to our stomachs with the results. The truth would be too painful.
The real academic problems in Georgia are due to lack of parenting at home and fear of actually holding parents accountable for student behavior in classrooms. If someone with common sense would deal with discipline issues, lots would change, for the positive, in our public schools.
Good Mother
June 17th, 2012
9:13 am
Since we are going to a common curriculum across the country, we need to go to a COMMON TEST — such as the ITBS. The reason more kids are exceeding on the CRCT but scores in math and science are low — is a simple one — GA LOWERed Its score to pass.
GA education is across the state — horrible. There are some bright spots but most spots are dismal. We need fewer students in each class and a better class of teacher. The education major teachers coming out of most of our colleges are unprepared for high schools themselves. There are notable exceptions but two of the three teachers teaching my children can’t use common standard English and they were born and raised here in Georgia. It is a disgrace. My childen will attend private schools next year whilethe parasite that is APS will suck the tax blood out of me.
Vouchers — now.
Good Mother
June 17th, 2012
9:19 am
All these comments about CRCT and ITBS being different and can’t be compared is BALONEY.
These tests measurea great deal of reading comprehension. They are ridiculously easy.
The answers to all the reading questions are clearly in the tests. If a child can’t get them right it is because they clearly haven’t learned to read.
Reading is fundamental to ALL other learning. We need to stop having these ridiculous pieces of black history month where my children learned about — get this — WHITNEY HOUSTON — and learn reading instead. Whitney is a drug addict who wasted all her talent. She was rich and black — so what? Why are we wasting critical education time talking about a drug addict? Teaching tolerance and kindness and respect ala Dr. Martin Luther King is a good message but WHITNEY HOUSTON? APS has run foul and it stinks.
Get back to reading.
Period.
Steve
June 18th, 2012
4:01 pm
Maureen. Here is a little fuel for the fire. I retired from teaching science 3 years ago. So some of what I say may be dated. I found this site years ago and used it to evaluate students on the previous day’s material. We then went over the questions and why answer A was right or wrong, why B was right or wrongm etc. It saved me from writing questions. I approached my principal to ensure I would not get in trouble and she gave the green light to use it. The website is http://www.doe.virginia.gov/testing/sol/released_tests/index.shtml
When the CRCT rolled around the students found maybe 10 questions that were extremely close or exactly worded. This led me to believe that the same company that writes the CRCT may write Virginia’s standardized tests. This site provides a large amount of questions. So, if Georgia is not wanting to release the CRCT tests for whatever reason a parent can go to this site and find a very similar test. Texas also releases their TAKS and New York releases their Regents tests as do many other states.
If Georgia were to have a valid assessment then they should follow the WASL test from Washington state. This test would give valid results as to student knowledge. The problem is that politicians and educators do not want anyone to know just how bad the educational system is in Georgia. In my old system, students that did not pass were offered summer school in lieu of retention. The summer school curriculum consisted of art, PE, movies, games, etc. Completion of summer school allowed a student to be placed in the next grade and further behind in their education. Until students are held accountable this never ending cycle will further spiral out of control and more kids will be deprived of their education.
Teacher
July 25th, 2012
3:52 pm
With the math scores so low at many schools, why is Dekalb piloting a new program in some schools called “Success for All” which is a program to increase READING scores? When are we going to introduce a math program/curriculum that will increase math scores? And where is the money coming from for resources when teachers are working with 6 furlough days included in the upcoming school year?? Maureen, please look into these questions and help us to understand!