Is the cat out of the bag? Are parents losing perspective when our kids do wrong?
A recurring issue on this blog is how to deal with out-of-control children in the classroom. Hundreds of you responded to the story last month on the police handcuffing of a 6-year-old kindergartner in Milledgeville, most expressing support for the school’s decision to bring in police.
This new AJC story did not take place in the classroom but it neatly reflects the dilemma of how to handle kids who may be endangering others. In this case, the other was a cat recovering from surgery in the waiting room of a north Fulton’s vet office. The story speaks to how conflicted we are as to what to do about kids whose parents either can’t or won’t restrain them.
My husband and I debated this story this morning. He contends that the frantic cat owner crossed the line when he swatted the 4-year-old who was allegedly harassing the man’s sick cat.
As I have said many times, I don’t believe in corporal punishment at home or in school. Beyond nostalgia, there is nothing that suggests beating kids produces better behaved or healthier human beings. In fact, the research suggests the opposite. There is hardly a child in juvenile lockup who was not raised by the belt, cord or switch.
But I don’t have a problem with a pet owner lightly swatting a kid’s backside because the child is sticking his hand in the cage of sick animal and will not heed warnings to stop. Nor is the parent, for whatever reason, stopping the child. The child’s actions posed a danger to himself and the sick animal.
Given the facts as reported, the arrest of the pet owner seems an extreme response.
I had a conversation this week with a parent who wanted to complain about the attitude and comments of a teacher who took her daughter’s phone from her in class. I asked if phones were allowed in the classroom, and the mom told me they were not. I told the mom that there was nothing else really left to discuss. Whether the teacher was abrasive in how she took the phone or in the tone she used to the errant student didn’t matter to me if the kid was in open violation of a classroom policy.
I find an increasingly odd attitude among parents: Yes, my kid did something wrong, but you weren’t nice in how you responded and that’s what we ought to be fixing.
A woman who called police to the scene said she had brought a family pet into the clinic, and was in the waiting room with her 4-year-old son. The mother told an officer that “she was having trouble controlling her son,” the police report said.
Trouble began when the boy reached for a cat in a carrier. The cat belonged to 42-year-old Russel B. Baughcum. The cat recently had surgery, and the Suwanee man was there to pick it up. Baughcum told the officer that the youngster repeatedly reached for the animal, the incident report said. The man said he told the child to stop, but the boy grabbed hold of the cage and tried to pull it off a chair. The man said he shouted, “Stop! Stop! Stop!” and struck the child lightly on his lower back and buttocks.
“Mr. Baughcum demonstrated that he struck the child in a back handed fashion, and that the contact was light enough that he didn’t think the child knew he had been touched,” the police report said. Two clinic employees said they witnessed the man strike the child on his rear when the boy tried to play with the cat, according to the incident report.
The boy’s mother insisted on pressing charges, so Baughcum was arrested and charged, police said. He was taken to the Fulton County Jail Alpharetta Annex. The veterinary clinic kept the cat for him to pick up later. Jail officials told Channel 2 that Baughcum posted $1,000 bond and was released Tuesday morning.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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244 comments Add your comment
Horrible
May 2nd, 2012
1:33 pm
@Maureen,
You confuse correlation with causation (a common failing of the fourth estate).
To use your example, maybe everyone who is in juvie has been hit with a belt etc. because that’s the next step up after a spanking, and someone who is going to end up in juvie ALWAYS takes that step (i.e., the delinquent personality causes the belt, and not the other way around).
Or maybe all these kids have young, immature parents, and those kinds of parents always use a belt
(the belt & delinquency have another common, underlying factor).
I spanked my kids, but never used any kind of weapon to do so. If the nospank crowd has it right, they should now be troubled teenage delinquents instead of well-behaved, responsible kids and honor roll students.
Morrigan
May 2nd, 2012
1:35 pm
First, the story says the man asked the child more than once to leave the cage alone. The brat tried to pull it off the chair anyway. I’d have sent him sprawling. I can’t touch your crotchfruit even though he’s hurting a living creature? Back off or you’re next.
Second, there was no mention of Snowflake having any behavioral disorders, real or conveniently imagined. So knock off those suppositions,
Third, all this hand-wringing to the effect that the ONLY reason Brat shouldn’t have done this was it might have gotten scratched. Are those really the values you live by – the only reason not to hurt something is a selfish one? Wow.
Oh well. Forbid a reasonable tap on the butt now, see results of double-tap in about 12-15 years when Brat-turned-Thug tries it with the wrong victim.
Tonya C.
May 2nd, 2012
1:36 pm
gamom:
Not your place to say. If the parent expresses permission for corporal punishment, it’s not YOUR place to determine whether or not it’s appropiate. Not if you don’t want said discipline tactic for YOUR child, you should have every right to waive it. I can fully support that.
Ginger
May 2nd, 2012
1:37 pm
When I was a wee thing, a neighborhood mother caught me and her daughter (both 4 year olds) heading out of the subdivision and into the main road. She wore us both out. While I do have to say I haven’t suffered any ill effects from being spanked by someone who was not my parent (or my parent, for that matter), I definitely learned a lesson that day about staying out of the road. Thanks Mrs. Murphy for caring enough about me to teach me right from wrong since my parents, at that particular moment, were unable to.
Snafu
May 2nd, 2012
1:38 pm
@bu2..”If you get mad because you are right, you have situations like Martin/Zimmerman where both thought they were right and one got killed”.
This is not a Zimmerman/Martin issue, stick to the article,in which the pursuer was told not to follow. In this case a man tapped a child on the rear because the MOTHER FAILED to intervene when the man told the child to stop. So in this case BU2 the MOTHER was there to correct this behavior in which she did not and once again, allowed it to escalate to that point. So don’t throw the Zimmerman case in this when it is clearly a case of a PARENT who FAILED to take action. This is the crux of this matter. When one cannot bring any other argue they resort to distracting from the issue at hand.
kimmer
May 2nd, 2012
1:47 pm
@bu2 there is a difference between corporal punishment and a very light bump on the hiney to get an out of control child’s attention when he or she has put him/herself or others sick pet in immediate danger. No it was not such a good idea in retrospect I bet he wished he didn’t do that but it certainly does not warrant getting arrested, thrown in jail and charged with assault.
We don’t know all of the facts but based on what we do know there isn’t a jury anywhere that’s going to convict him.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
1:47 pm
Tonya – you are very wrong on that. My children deserve to go to a place that is not violent. If my children are in the school where paddling is going on to someone else’s child, they would be traumatized knowing their peers are getting beaten. It is foreign to them, and it is becoming less an less acceptable. In addition even if a district does not have a corporal punishment policy, teachers are getting away with getting physical, and charges cannot be brought because the legislature has given carte blanche immunity in the schoolhouse. This has happened in my community and in countless others. Plus a district can change the policy any time they want. If the parent is so hell bent on spanking for whatever crazy reason– let it be on them and on them alone. Not in my taxpayer funded school district. Period. And not anywhere in the state. So please…I am just advocating for a repeal in the GA code, because 31 states have outlawed it..including New Mexico…signed by a republican Governor. I am not going to go into all the studies that are out there. But the simple fact is, there are abusers in practically every district and they will and can exploit loopholes…IN GA there is a gaping one. Maybe you haven’t followed the news much..but almost every report there is an educator who has done unspeakable things to kids. Nobody should trust anyone else to raise their kids. Also Tonya, school district policies are very confusing to parents.. there really is only one out according to the law.. and that is a note from an MD at the beginning of the school year. No form – like an opt in or opt out would ever hold up in court. And what if the child develops a medical issue mid year – you can’t legally opt out then, because it states the note must be at beginning of year. TOO Many loopholes and too many deranged educators already in the system
Here'sHowItEnds
May 2nd, 2012
1:52 pm
The child will get away with everything he does and the parent will blame everyone else until the day comes when he is grown and harasses/threatens a person or his property and ends up on the wrong end of a gun. Thankfully, then the gun owner will have the right to defend himself and won’t be arrested like this innocent man. This man should have the right to protect his property(cat) with reasonable force(gentle hand slap on rear), even when his property is threatened by a child.
SGAdmin
May 2nd, 2012
1:52 pm
How about this: The parent of the child making HER child leave the cat alone. Why should the man move his cat when the child (and parent) is the one at fault? Should he have touched the child, maybe not. Should he have been arrested? Absolutly not.
Tonya C.
May 2nd, 2012
1:54 pm
gamom:
I follow the news. I am just far from paranoid or worked up about anything that doesn’t pertain to my child learning. If it’s about curriculum, standards, testing, etc I care. Otherwise, nope. Deranged teachers? I know a teacher who was stabbed by a student this year, and several others who were injured last year. Deranged can go both ways.
But I moved to GA knowing full and well this was the South so maybe it’s just knowing where I stand.
Discipline is a GOOD THING
May 2nd, 2012
1:56 pm
Gamom: Just homeschool your kids and keep ‘em outta public. You are the problem.
Potentially lawful
May 2nd, 2012
1:57 pm
Not sure why GA law 16-3-24 would not apply to the man defending his property (the cat). Seems like the child was interfering with his property.
This is Georgia’s law justifying non-deadly use of force to protect property (not one’s home).
TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 3. DEFENSES TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS
ARTICLE 2. JUSTIFICATION AND EXCUSE
O.C.G.A. § 16-3-24 (2011)
§ 16-3-24. Use of force in defense of property other than a habitation
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property:
(1) Lawfully in his possession;
(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
(b) The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Yara Williams
May 2nd, 2012
1:59 pm
The mother should know how to control her child. He apparently does not how to act in public and does not respond to simple commands from adults as, “stop”. When the law starts holding these parents accountable for their offspring, then they won’t be so quick to blame others. This was senseless to the fullest. Now, if the man would have had a temper mental dog in the cage and it bit the boy when he opened the cage, who would be a fault? The man or the mother? The mother would be, she needs to be put in jail for being an incompetent parent.
Hillbilly D
May 2nd, 2012
2:00 pm
When I was a kid, I knew that neither of my parents would have any problem blistering my tail, if I acted up. I didn’t like getting my tail blistered, so I kept my acting up to a minimum. Cause and effect. simple as that.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
2:04 pm
@ Tonya… I think you simply don’t get the laws the way they are and the loopholes. I hope and pray you will see the light. If something ever happened to your child, I’m quite certain you’d make a big stink about it.
Maureen how come you didn’t cover the Stu Chaifetz story…the dad who caught teachers on tape?.. Anyway he has a FB page – No More Teacher Bullies — https://www.facebook.com/NoMoreTeacherBullies
Bratz rule
May 2nd, 2012
2:05 pm
Ridiculous that this man was arrested. I get tired of the mentality that just because they’re children, any obnoxious behavior should be excused or ignored. Parents need to teach their children to respect other people’s boundaries; otherwise, if they cross the wrong person they might end up with much worse than a swat on the backside. Maybe the kid should have been in the cage instead of the cat. Hmmm, cage or corporal punishment? Yeah, that swat on the bottom isn’t sounding so Draconian now is it?
Sparky
May 2nd, 2012
2:08 pm
I love cats but why not just get between the kid and the cat. He could even pull him away. Spanking the kid seems bizarre.
Kid is 4. Not like he knows what he’s doing. You can’t hit him.
So now every kid that acts up is an entitled brat???
Tonya C.
May 2nd, 2012
2:10 pm
gamom:
No I wouldn’t. Why? Because as I said I believe in corporal punishment. So if my kid got tagged at school, the follow-up at home would be no better. I don’t make big stinks about things that are not mortal danger. But good luck with it. You are fighting a real uphill battle.
Bratz rule
May 2nd, 2012
2:18 pm
Even a two year old is old enough to understand “No!” Ole Guy has it right. Fear of consequences goes a long way to ensuring courteous behavior.
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
2:19 pm
No Tonya, you don’t understand, there have been kids who have had injuries from it, and the courts throw it out.. Unless you are an abuser yourself, I am quite certain you’d be outraged if your kid came home with a broken tailbone or worse. And if you are an abuser, one day a mandated reporter will report you…because now a new law is in effect…expanding the requirements of mandated reporters. The child maltreatment rates here in Georgia is appalling! And that goes to all the spankers and abusers out there…mandated reporters are everywhere. If you hit your child in public, somebody is likely to report you.
steve
May 2nd, 2012
2:20 pm
The man had his pet in a container and had told the child to leave it alone. I understand the child is 4 and has no real concept of reality, but this is where the mother should have stepped in. Shame on the mother for not controlling her child.
kindeya
May 2nd, 2012
2:22 pm
I believe the cat’s owner was well within his rights to protect his property (his cat). If the 4 year old is already out of control; what will he be like at 10 years or even older. It’s ashame that the cat owner was arrested and charged. DFACS need to get involved and send the mom to some parental training classes.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
2:29 pm
new study on child abuse/bullying – suggests it hastens aging in kids
http://stopabusecampaign.com/feature/bullyingchild-abuse-hasten-aging-in-kids
Spanking can quickly lead to abuse, especially if the spanker is a repeat spanker and does it over and over again. Long term effects of spanking over and over again are negative. The damage is cumulative. I doubt I will change any hearts or minds on these blogs, but wanted to share the link. It’s really shameful that people get on these blogs and say what they say.
JacketMan
May 2nd, 2012
2:32 pm
Drop the charges and advise the man not to swat other people’s kids. Turn the child over to DFACS for a few days and arrest the mother for child neglect.
Sal
May 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
Most of the time I think that people should not spank another person’s child but in this case the kid was totally out of control. The guy did what his mom should have done. Her child was doing harm and she was not stopping him. I have seen parents let kids slap babbies because they had no control over him. I know adults can not spank other people’s childrens but this was a case of self defense.
Mountain Man
May 2nd, 2012
2:51 pm
Amen – Jacketman
Horrible
May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm
BTW, now we know the parental mentality (gamom/bu2) that made it necessary for an elementary school to call the cops on that out-of-control kindergartener. Only safe, non-litigious way to apply force to stop the little darling.
whopping moma
May 2nd, 2012
3:11 pm
I raised four boys, all finshed high school w/ HONORS all finish college, they had house dutes, yard work etc. all the boys had part time jobs while in High school. I taught my children how to respect me & others, my boys new i would beat their behinds if they showed out on me or try to talk back to me, I never played with my kids,I let them know that we are the parents and you will respect us bottom line.
Parents pay attention to your kids and have them to respect you and others. Don’t be scared to pop them every now and then belive me it will make them a better person in the long run.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
3:13 pm
@Horrible…please do not assume I am an opponent to discipline. I have never said that. It boggles the mind that some of the comments are coming from educators. If you hate little monsters so much…please get out of education!
Me
May 2nd, 2012
3:27 pm
Great — So the identity of the man trying to protect his pet is now widely known and wide spread but no one has identified the mother of the mis-behaved child who “insisted” on pressing charges… WHY??
Tom
May 2nd, 2012
3:29 pm
The mother sounds like she is the cause of the child’s very dysfunctional behavior! Maybe she should have been the one brought up for justice.
high school teacher
May 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm
“The only thing that is guarranteed when you spank a child is that they will become the spanker when they grow up. There is no evidence that it is effective either.”
I’ll provide you with some action research: spanking was incredibly effective in my house as a kid. I never got in trouble at school because I was terrified of what would have happened to me at home. I never drank, smoke, did drugs, or snuck out of the house as a teen. My sister and brother can say the same thing. Today, we are all college-graduated, happily married, successful adults. I will say that while my parents didn’t spare the rod, they also didn’t spare the love. We are all very close to our parents now, and as an adult I see them as my friends. I always knew that I was loved. However, I had a healthy respect of their heavy hands! Spanking is very effective if it’s coupled with love.
As for being the one who spanker, well, yes, I do that too. And I have two well-behaved, well-mannered boys
high school teacher
May 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm
…who spanks…
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
3:34 pm
high school teacher – annecdotally speaking isn’t it? Not acceptable in today’s world. Sorry. Next. My children have never been spanked, they are productive, happy and healthy.. So you can’t assert it was the spanking that did it, because my experience is opposite of yours. Love/Spanking in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
Morrigan
May 2nd, 2012
3:35 pm
Then do tell us, gamom…what discipline DO you approve of?
You started by scolding everyone who disagrees with you, then name calling, then distracting with another story, then you argued and – my favorite – “prayed for” those who wouldn’t go along with you, now you’re just “acting out” at everyone who disagrees with you, and that seems to be the vast majority. Do you have anything besides distractions, name-calling, arguing, and scolding? Or are those YOUR disciplinary tools?
Tonya C.
May 2nd, 2012
3:41 pm
gamom:
You will not garner support for yur cause because of your all or nothing attitude. Period. You will have a few who latch on, but the masses you need to affect change are instantly turned off by you ‘my way or the highway’ ideals. Spanking works for ME. It is not the only tool in my arsenal, but it is ONE. To turn every spanker into an abuser and bring out the DFACS (a joke of an agency which is so underfunded it’s ridiculous) is no different than saying anyone who doesn’t spank doesn’t discipline.
And making calls to the so-called abuse line…fot the kids who are TRULY abused, it is almost never found out. That’s the hilarity when someone throws it out there.
Cammi317
May 2nd, 2012
3:41 pm
That mom is an idiot! That being said, I am a single parent, and I have a 14 y/o daughter. Beyond mouthing off a little too much occassionally, she is a well rounded normal 14 y/o by anyone’s standard. She is not having sex, using drugs or alcohol or participating in any illegal activities. How do I know this you say? Because I keep a TIGHT reign on her. Does this mean that she might go wild in 4 years when she is off to college? Possibly, I got a little wild my freshman year, but calmed down 2nd semester, and I was raised in a 2 parent home where I the reign was also held tight. On the otherhand, I know several children her age being raised in a 2 parent home and doing all kinds of wild and crazy stuff. At the end of the day, it’s about how you parent.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
3:45 pm
@Morrigan..if I was this mother of the 4 year old, I would be holding on to my child, if the situation warranted I would have left, simple as that. But I wouldn’t pop or spank the child.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
3:49 pm
Tonya – FINE, it works for you! You are the one that has to follow the law! There are laws in place to protect the child in the home already. But not so in the schools. Educators who abuse the corporal punishment policy are immune. That’s my point! Read it slowly. It works for you and you have a clear conscience …fine, but it does not belong in the schools. That’s all I’m saying. There is not one Educator Professional Organization out there that supports corporal punishment in schools. Not One. If you are so compelled to spank your child, that is on you. I never said to outlaw it in the home …did I? No I did not. although I do not condone it, no more laws are needed in that regard.
Just another teacher
May 2nd, 2012
4:06 pm
gamom @ 3:13 p.m. It boggles the mind that some of the comments are coming from educators. If you hate little monsters so much…please get out of education!
I do not hate my students. I do despise spineless administrators for not allowing teachers to discipline students. Only a small amount of discipline allows paddling. Teachers are not allowed to do very much at all when it comes to discipline as it may hurt Snowflake’s precious self-esteem if they are corrected. I do despise parents for putting their Snowflakey children on the Pedastal of Awesomeness in the first place.
By the way….I just got written up by an administrator for hurting a Snowflakey child’s feelings when I reprimanded them for day dreaming in class. Apparently, they cried all night at home.
I used to love coming to school….now I just flat out hate it.
Tag
May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
The mother was wrong for not controlling her kid.
She should have spanked her child.
Morrigan
May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
gamom, I asked you what discipline is acceptable to you, not “what you’d do if” or what you wouldn’t do.
Finish the sentence: “The types of discipline that are acceptable to me are:”
Just another teacher
May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm
Is gamom the same person as our old friend “Good Mother”?
Tonya C.
May 2nd, 2012
4:12 pm
Just another teacher:
I don’t think so. She only comes out when the posting is in regards to coporal punishment or a child being touched. Good Mother actively assaults all types of posts.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
4:36 pm
Morrigan – it all depends on the age and the circumstance. I said I would remove me and my child if the situation warranted. That’s what I said. I meant what I said. Is that not good enough. Really, what else can you do with a 4 year old. Now, if you are talking about a 10 yr old or a 14 yr old, entirely different.
I hope all spankers take heed, because there are stiffer penalties now and broader requirements for mandated reporters in Georgia. Widely covered in the news. Soooooo…with that said…hold on to the tradition all you want, eventually you’re going to have to find alternative behavior management for your kids
Snafu
May 2nd, 2012
4:38 pm
@ steve..” I understand the child is 4 and has no real concept of reality”
Are you kidding me. If a parent disciplined and taught the child he/she would have a sense of reality. I know toddlers who have a sense of reality when they touch something hot or too cold. Dang, I don’t know where you have been or the children you have been around but 4 yrs old if taught properly should know when to stop if told by an adult. There is not excuse for the INACTION of the MOTHER!
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
4:39 pm
Here’s a link to the mandated reporter expansion http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/section/6/article/66569/
Brandy
May 2nd, 2012
4:45 pm
All of you IDIOTS who are favoring this Russell man are ignorant. It is never ok to hit a child! I guarantee if any of you have children and I walked up the them (being a complete stranger) and hit them, you would have your panties in a bunch too. And lets play the sick cat role some more ok…. have you ever stop to ask why this lady was at the vet…. why she was preoccupied for a moment? Was her animal sick or being put to sleep.. do you know? No you dont!
And for those of you talking about bringing the child and mom to justice…bahahaha hes 4yrs old! Do you know this child? NO! Do you know his background..NO! This does not make him a terrible child, this makes him a 4yr old boy, doesnt mean he is like that all the time. I know this from working with children for 8years. It also doesnt make her a bad mom. You were not there to see what was happening. Every single one of you has made mistakes in you life and if you have children you have had your ups and downs with them also….so on a bad day…that makes you a bad mom for the rest of your life. I say shes a bad mom if she didnt stick up for her son and protect him! Then she would be teaching him that its ok to let strangers touch you or hit you. All kids are curious and Im sure he was comfortable with animals if she was there with her animal in the first place.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
4:45 pm
to just another teacher — oh, the daydreaming in class bit. That could have been my daughter. We discovered an issue through my physician!! You betchya I would have mad at you too. Daydreaming is not only caused by lack of sleep and other physical factors but can occur in learning disabilities too. Like I said, if you can’t handle the heat…get out of the kitchen.
gamom
May 2nd, 2012
4:47 pm
I can then commend your administrator for writing you up. Do you not realize the damage you do to kids?