Unless their summer job is selling a kidney, most students can’t earn enough to pay for college
Many parents worry about how they’re going to pay for their children’s education even when their kids plan to attend public colleges.
It doesn’t look like the struggle is going to get any easier. Reporting from today’s Georgia Board of Regents meeting, the AJC says Georgia college students would pay between $31 and $218 more per semester in tuition next fall under a proposal just approved. In addition, special fees that were due to sunset will continue.
The Regents issued a preemptive press release already today that the tuition hike represents “the smallest tuition increase in a decade – 2.5 percent.”
According to the statement from the Regents:
The action taken by the Board of Regents on tuition today is possible in part due to Gov. Nathan Deal recommending and the General Assembly agreeing to full funding of the formula for the University System of Georgia. By doing so, the regents were provided with a strong financial base upon which to set current tuition policy in fiscal year 2013.
Another key contributor to the current decision is the goal of the board to maintain affordability. “The board and I are very sensitive to the present economic realities facing our students and parents,” said University System of Georgia Chancellor Hank Huckaby. “We are thankful for the actions of the Governor and the General Assembly of fully funding the formula; it allows us to take a very conservative approach to current tuition. It also helps us maintain accessibility and affordability as we pursue increasing college completion rates across the state.”
The action by the regents on tuition was part of a larger package of decisions on the fiscal year 2013 budget and funding to the 35 colleges and universities as well as student fees and the future of the special institutional fee. The action by the board not only address affordability, but support the goals of ensuring high academic quality and promoting the Complete College Georgia completion plan.
At 2.5 percent, this is the lowest percentage increase since fiscal year 2003 for the majority of in-state undergraduate students. Depending upon the college or university in which a student is enrolled, this is an increase at 32 USG institutions from $31 to $91 per semester.
At the Georgia Institute of Technology, the University of Georgia and Georgia State University, the board is adopting a new approach to bring the per-student funding closer to that of the national peers for each university. The tuition increase at Georgia Tech will be 6 percent; at UGA students will experience a 5 percent increase and the increase at Georgia State will be 3.5 percent.
“Differentiating tuition among the four research institutions is a new approach,” said USG Vice Chancellor for Fiscal Affairs John Brown. “This approach ensures each of the research institutions can fulfill their respective academic missions while being competitively priced with their peer institutions.”
Another key action taken today relates to the special institutional fee, which was first enacted in 2009 by the regents to help offset lower state support due to the economic recession. The fee is due to sunset on June 30, 2012. Today the board adopted a resolution that continues the fee at its current levels with some exceptions. The board will continue to review and evaluate the fee annually as part of the tuition and budget process, said Brown.
“Given the special institutional fee generates $210 million annually to support the USG’s core instructional mission, it would be difficult for the institutions to sustain their academic missions and quality of instruction if the fee was eliminated,” said Brown.
A total exemption from the special institutional fee was approved for active military personnel, joint enrolled students, and for exempt students who typically do not pay fees, such as senior citizens. Students who are cross-registered at multiple institutions will pay the fee only at the home institution to which they are enrolled. The final exemption approved is a 50 percent reduction in the fee for all students taking from one to four credit hours.
Other specific student fees that originate at the institutions received closer scrutiny this year, Brown said. Of the total 254 student fees in place in the System, only 18 were recommended and approved for increases. “We carefully reviewed fee increase requests and limited increases to those absolutely necessary,” said Brown.
Discussion on the blog on rising college costs always sparks comments along the lines of, “I worked my way through college. So can these kids.” Those comments disregard the incredible surge in higher education costs.
For example, I paid most of my tab to attend an Ivy League graduate school by taking off a year and working two jobs. Today, I went to the Columbia University web site today to see the current cost of my program: $55,546 for tuition and fees. Add in rent, utilities and personal expenses, and the web site estimates the total cost at $81, 422.
Unless my jobs were selling kidneys and trafficking in drugs, there is no way at age 22 that I could have earned that much money in a year working two jobs — even living in a box and dining on Saltines and tap water.
For most students — those attending 32 of the 35 colleges in the University System of Georgia — tuition would increase by 2.5 percent. That’s the smallest increase in nearly a decade. But Georgia Tech, University of Georgia and Georgia State University students would face heftier increases.
Georgia Tech would see the largest increase at 6 percent. Students would pay $3,859 per semester, a $218 jump. At UGA, a 5 percent increase would await students, hiking their tuition by $182 to $3,823 per semester. Georgia State students would pay 3.5 percent more, with semester charges growing by $127 to $3,768.
In addition to paying tuition, students pay hundreds each semester in mandatory fees. Students were supposed to get some relief because a “special institutional fee” that ranges from $160 to $544 per semester, depending on the college, was set to expire at the end of June.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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105 comments Add your comment
Bob
April 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
The great shame in all this is the fees that are being added to the cost of attendance. Georgia Tech has lobbied for several years to convert those “fees” into a tuition increase on the argument that the fees are necessary and permanent. That would allow scholarship monies to cover those costs instead of having them excluded from certain awards. Of course, the fees are purely political – a way for politicians to claim they’ve limited tuition increases and a way to deceive the public about programs (like Hope) that are being marginalized by these accounting gimmicks.
And that doesn’t illustrate another problem…the high fees make graduate programs and stipends less competitive than their competition. A typical doctoral student will pay 8-10% of their stipend in fees that are not covered by their tuition waiver. This means we lose top PhD students from our programs every year over these accounting gimmicks as well.
williebkind
April 17th, 2012
12:31 pm
We have to pay those liberals huge paychecks so they can take off and go riot with their occupy buddies. Only higher education can justify their salary.
Leslie
April 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
Georgia’s crooked politicians have struck again. More money for them, less opportunities for the students.
weetamoe
April 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
Don’t you guys employ copy editors? Is the newspaper business that broke? I should think all of you writers who are so much smarter and well informed than the average *wing nut* would know who Leon Panetta is. You might reread your own paper.
Lower taxes so I can pay off my debt along with tuition
April 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
Lower taxes so I can pay off my debt along with tuition
clark kent
April 17th, 2012
12:41 pm
Welcome to the world of government subsidies which wind up having more negative effects than the problem they were created to solve.
JohnsCreekMom
April 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
Thank you Maureen for putting in those comments about how much a student would have to work in order to foot their tuition bill and living expenses. My daughter will be in debt for quite some time but she went in with the plan to major in medical/dental and will hopefully be able to enter professional school in another year. So many people try to think back to the “good old days” when gas was $1.00 and you could put yourself through college by waiting tables or working in the school canteen. It’s a different day and even if your child chooses to go to school in-state, it isn’t much easier. Depending on your major, the course work is considerably harder and more rigorous. No offense, but for those who went to school back in those days, I can almost bet you wouldn’t even be accepted to the same school today.
Dave
April 17th, 2012
12:46 pm
A better question would be: exactly what costs are increasing at the various universities which require the schools to raise tuition costs?
Are you paying professors more this year than last? Are you spending more for building upkeep? Grounds maintenance? Hiring more administrators? Paying school staff more than last year?
Why can’t the answer be to cut costs at the university level? Hire a forensic accountant and go through your bills one-by-one to find out what’s unneccesary and eliminate it. Put a freeze on raises. Limit spending on cushy new office furniture and keep what you already have.
I’m positive I could find lots of things to cut spending on if I had the university’s budget available.
dc
April 17th, 2012
12:48 pm
So when our govt subsidizes something, it’s only a matter of time until the cost of that “something” goes way up. What’s the incentive to keep it competitive if paying customers can just get someone else to cover the cost.
Best thing that ever happened to Hope was to cap it. Now students (and parents) will start having a reason to make better economic decisions. We gave our kids a set amount for college, and they could choose to go anywhere (and borrow to pay for it). Amazingly (right….) they chose instate, and kept the Hope. It’s all a matter of incentives, and who is having to pay.
Kind of reminds me of health care today, where we expect all our doc visits to be paid for by insurance (as if my oil changes are paid for by my auto insurance)
jd
April 17th, 2012
12:48 pm
Maureen,
If you went to journalism school at UGA, you could pay your tuition, and fees, and dorm costs by working… Deduct HOPE (which I think you are smart enough to get) — and you would be left with approximately $8,000 per year (a far cry from $54,000 at Columbia) for a degree with a solid reputation. Pick up some work @ $10 hour, and you need 800 hours of effort to be debt free for that experience… You don’t need a car in Athens, use the bus. Don’t need a tv either — you be too busy studying… or tailgating — whichever comes first…
So, when will the AJC write an article noting that the state legislature has decreased the amount it pays for tuition from 75% of cost to under 52% and in adjusted dollars is spending less tax money per student than anytime since 1994? (When HOPE began, wait, are they swapping HOPE dollars for tax dollars?)
ma
April 17th, 2012
12:50 pm
YIPPEE!!!!!
Follow the Course
April 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
The pure unintended consequences of the HOPE have allowed the schools to spend and build unabated knowing they have a guaranteed income. Whether the HOPE funds 2,000 kids or 1,500, the schools still “bank” the same amount of cash and receives more from the less “scholarly”.
Just like a lot of other thing government related institutions, schools can not control cost and teach subjects with little to no value. Colleges are businesses and have an infrastructure that is built way beyond possible utilization. But these structures still must be maintained.
More money, more money, more money …the more one feeds the beast, the more the beast demands to be fed.
Elizabeth
April 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
In 1965 I could not earn all my college costs either. So I got a scholarship,which required me to maintain a B average,Found a job, AND lived at home and commuted with 2 other students to Georgia State University each day. I graduated with the only debt– teach a year in the state to pay back my student scholarship/loan. Result– NO debt other to work at the job I trained for. Living at home may not be as much fun as going away, but it does save money.
jd
April 17th, 2012
12:54 pm
@ Follow — do the math — less than 1/3 of the students in USG institutions get HOPE — hardly enough to justify the “logic” you propose is driving tuition costs — When you examine the cost structure and see the revenue generated per student — these businesses would “bank more money” if they capped enrollment and stopped growing altogether…
Jack
April 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
Responsible parents started a college fund for their child before he was out of diapers.They didn’t expect the government to pay for everything.
3schoolkids
April 17th, 2012
12:59 pm
This makes a great case for skipping summer employment completely and going to summer school instead! So now how much higher percentage of HOPE funds will be going to Tech, UGA and Ga State since their tuition is being raised more than the others?
jd
April 17th, 2012
1:12 pm
@3schoolkids — HOPE is capped at a sum per student to be determined by the State Student Finance commission — therefore HOPE will not pay for any tuition increases
Prof
April 17th, 2012
1:14 pm
Ignoring “make my day”’s weird, false, and paranoid post at April 17, 1 pm….
But @ Dave at 12:46 pm: ” A better question would be: exactly what costs are increasing at the various universities which require the schools to raise tuition costs? Are you paying professors more this year than last? Are you spending more for building upkeep? Grounds maintenance? Hiring more administrators? Paying school staff more than last year?”
Another question might be why the state legislators have been reducing funding to USG schools annually for the last 4-5 years? Wasn’t it in the expectation that HOPE would cover the extra costs that are never covered by student tuition?
And I just want to point out that USG salaries for faculty, administration and staff have been frozen since 2008, along with a hiring freeze and furlough days at many schools….and I would expect that building upkeep and grounds maintenance DO cost more, given the overall rise in fuel and energy costs for the last few years. Or do you think that colleges and Universities should be charitable institutions?
Follow the Course
April 17th, 2012
1:16 pm
jd … same amonut of HOPE money and “do the math” … my numbers or yours. You only believe what you want.
How many new building have been built at these campuses within the past ten years … and what is their “utilization” rate? Basiclly are/is every claas room being filled for 9 hours a day? NO
How many more maintaienece folks cleaning crews … light bulbs … need I go on ? … wasted space and our wasted money
Jefferson
April 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
This is the aim of the GOP legislators, it has taken a few years and here you are. They don’t want their kids to have to compete on a level field.
catlady
April 17th, 2012
1:19 pm
And there’s just so many kidnesys you can sell!
Shar
April 17th, 2012
1:21 pm
And here I thought that the Regents’ responsibility was to ensure that the quality of the USG schools was “competitive with their peer institutions”, not the cost alone. Foolish me.
Where in that press release are the cuts to the appalling administrative bloat that the USG has wallowed in over the last ten years? How many overcompensated, underutilized vice presidents are they getting rid of to spare the students from having to fund them? What building projects have been sidelined or underenrolled classes cancelled? And how exactly do the Regents justify discriminating against the students in the research universities for the benefit of those in the technical schools?
Their smug self-congratualtion over failing again to control costs and picking and choosing who to screw over is nauseating. Lying about those fees – better than $1000/year at UGA and now rising, and just tuition that they don’t want to admit to – while protecting the monstrous wasted administrative and discretionary spending should get every one of them kicked out and forced to do something productive for a change.
Senior Citizen Kane
April 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
The AJC has answered many questions about why this is happening:
In a six-part series last year, the AJC tracked the higher costs of higher education, finding that, despite the poor economy, University System spending was rapidly rising: more money for more deans, vice presidents and other administrators, plus skyrocketing student fees and campus construction. Those trends continued during fiscal 2011, according to University System data analyzed by the AJC.
For example, the amount spent on deans and vice presidents — from the year before the recession through June 2011 — jumped by more than a third, the analysis found. The number of deans listed in the state’s Open Georgia website increased from 278 to 397 during that period, and vice presidents went from 130 to 217.
Dave
April 17th, 2012
1:25 pm
@Prof 1:14
Higher education costs have gone up faster than inflation for decades. That’s not “fuel and energy costs”. That’s schools intentionally spending more money. I saw a report recently on some of the amenities at various universities in the midwest which would roughly compare to a luxury spa experience. Totally unnecessary for an education. If they want to go to a luxury spa, let them pay for it themselves.
Universities also have a higher percentage of administrative staff to teaching staff than they have in the past. I’m certain some of the bureaucracy can be slashed without impacting the quality of what students are learning.
The GA legislasture has every right to set the amount that it funds state colleges, commensurate with the reduces tax revenue generated during this slow economic recovery. At some point, there simply isn’t going to be enough HOPE scholarship money to cover the spiraling cost of college, and subsidizing college for most GA students is in fact helping to push that cost higher each year.
Yankee Prof
April 17th, 2012
1:25 pm
For those still deluded into thinking that tuition increases go into funding our summer vacation homes, let it be noted for the record that faculty and staff working for the University System of Georgia have recieved neither cost-of-living nor merit-pay raises for four years running, and have already been informed that we will not receive any form of raise in next year’s budget.
vmw
April 17th, 2012
1:27 pm
Has anyone looked on the Georgia State employees Salary website to see how much the executive/administrative positions for the Board of Regents make a year???They are very well paid…..and must need all those fees to make their raises every year!
jd
April 17th, 2012
1:37 pm
@VMW – no raises since 2008
@ follow up – show me the data… Classes run from 7 am until 10 pm — science courses are locked out early (only so much lab space — creating need for some students to stay an extra year — building maintenance is behind by more than $500 million (deferred for past 10 years) — can’t schedule classes on weekends as most students are working then — meanwhile costs of electricity, fuel, construction and repair materials continue to climb…
Financial analysis takes more energy than writing a misleading headline or constructing a bumper sticker
Ron Burgundy
April 17th, 2012
1:40 pm
Its all about priorities. You wanna iphone and the newest skin tight jeans then maybe college is not a prioirty.
Its funny how college educations are skyrocketing but the white house fails to villianize the liberal schools like they do with oil.
DawgDad
April 17th, 2012
1:42 pm
“Discussion on the blog on rising college costs always sparks comments along the lines of, “I worked my way through college. So can these kids.” Those comments disregard the incredible surge in higher education costs.”
That, Ms. Downey, is pure hogwash. The upward spiraling cost of attending college was every bit as much of an issue when I went to school in the 70’s and 80’s as it is now. Today there are FAR more opportunities for financial aid, grants, and loans available to a much broader spectrum of the public. Of course today there is a much broader EXPECTATION of attending college, rational or not. You’ve hit on a HIGHLY sensitive nerve here.
I figured out how to get an undergraduate and graduate degree from a very expensive private institution (expensive then and now), ON MY OWN. I did NOT feel entitled to attend this institution, I felt like I had to earn my way in and through. Part of that equation was trading four-plus years of my life for GI Bill benefits, another part was selling my civilian services cheaply to employers who provided tuition reimbursement.
State institutions are a special case due to the taxpayer subsidy and public politics. Feel free to apply pressure, that’s what the political process is for.
Tony Smith
April 17th, 2012
1:42 pm
The problem started earlier when the University System instituted tuition increases in a time of almost no inflation. Because HOPE funding was plentiful, no one in the Governor’s office or the Legislature questioned it but should have. It is time that the Board of Regents answers to someone.
John
April 17th, 2012
1:45 pm
I would like to read an article about how the State has lowered the funds going to the Public Schools and how that is causing an increase in tuition, but I guess that is too hard for the ajc to do actual research and see how much it cost to teach a student and compare that to state fubds vs other.
Follow the Course
April 17th, 2012
1:46 pm
jd … your maintenance numbers and your argument “make my point” … the schools have built things they can’t handle … and “classes run from 7 to 10″ … how many students in each class … how many different TA’s … not even Professors teaching the class …
Nona
April 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
HOPE, which is funded by the lottery, not taxpayers, is supposed to be dedicated to education, and the lottery proceeds have been raided and diverted by legislators rather consistently (a promise that worked out similarly to the promise of the GA 400 toll booth proceeds). The cost of doing business has risen for everybody, whether for profit or not for profit, and the ridiculous mandates in NCLB and other legislation that aim to get ALL kids into college, accompanied by cuts to vocational and technical education, has certainly driven up the costs of operating a college or university. More students? Well guess what? That means more professors, more classrooms, more classroom equipment, more new academic programs programs, more dorms, more technology, etc. As any organization expands, its capital needs increase. Every kid who WANTS to go to college should certainly have that opportunity, but public schools and all their ridiculous testing demands (which line the pockets of legislators through testing company PACs and lobbies, as do the textbook companies), as well as laws like NCLB, insist on sending kids AND parents the message that if you don’t go to college, you’re a loser. Not true, and not every kid is cut out for college. This problem is complex and is built on a foundation that begins long before colleges get their funding. The challenges of college funding are in large part a consequence of the silly demands being put on public education in grades K-12.
Maureen Downey
April 17th, 2012
1:50 pm
@DAWg, Not so in terms of rates of increase in college costs.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~jvanasu/ucai/white/
And from CNNMoney:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/13/news/economy/college_tuition_middle_class/index.htm
Mandy
April 17th, 2012
1:58 pm
Did anything explain why the research universities did not have equal increases? I understand an increase is expected every year, but it has been across the board the same. Why change that now? That being said, Georgia Tech is the 4th ranked Engineering school in the country. The top 3 being MIT, Stanford, and UC-Berkeley (CalTech #5). It is still a significant bargain compared to the rest of this list, with UC-Berkeley the only comparable state school at ~12,000 a year in-state.
EduKtr
April 17th, 2012
1:59 pm
Colleges are so yesterday.
Despite options to “test out” of a very limited number of intro courses, we continue to force college students to spend YEARS of inefficient “seat time” in colleges classrooms.
By comparison, students can earn Microsoft certification in a variety of areas—by studying at home at their own pace and taking rigorous tests to prove competence.
So why not allow testing in more college courses? Well, tradition stands in the way. And as always, so do the teachers’ unions. What would Steve Jobs recommend? (See his biography page 544 to get his general drift…)
Parent Teacher
April 17th, 2012
2:06 pm
When I Graduated from Georgia College and State University in 2000, tuition was less than $1100 per semester not including room an board. Now tuition is over $3200 per semester. That is almost 3 times what it cost only 12 years ago. That is insane. The State continues to cut all state agencies, education, local funding, etc… And they continue to create mandates that require more funding from local municipalities. Thanks Chip, ALEC and others.
Old timer
April 17th, 2012
2:12 pm
Maybe colleges ought to cut administrati e…non teaching positions Boutntwenty percent…
Prof
April 17th, 2012
2:14 pm
To the earlier comment about what costs are increasing to necessitate the increase, it’s mainly that the state keeps slashing higher education funding. As that goes down, tuition and fees have to be raised to keep the university running even if no cost increases occur.
These cuts have happened for several years, and state universities have largely made all the cuts and changes they can without hurting the quality of education provided, and research conducted. Faculty have had furlough days (salary reductions), staff has been scaled back and class sizes have been increased.
Employees are not getting paid more, as there has a been a pay freeze for four years now. So no one has gotten any merit raises. Any faculty pay increases were a result of someone having a better offer from another university, and their university counter offering. That’s currently the only way for faculty to get a raise–go get another offer and see if your university will match. That’s terrible for improving quality of a university as good faculty are now more likely to get an offer they can’t refuse and go elsewhere, when they may not have applied for other jobs if regular merit raises were in place.
It’s an unfortunate situation, but not much can be done when it’s impossible politically to raise taxes. Thus public funding gets slashed, and our universities have turned from public universities, to publicly assisted universities that now get more than 50% of their funding from tuition, fees, private donations and indirects taken from faculty-obtained research grants,
Michael Moore
April 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
Today’s Chronicle of Higher Education had an article where Vice President Joe Biden was asked what was causing such a rise in college tuition. His response was faculty salaries. I would like to make it clear that faculty in the University System of Georgia have not had a raise in pay in four years and had a reduction in pay due to furloughs for one year. Additionally, benefits have risen as well as institutional costs like parking. I would also like to make it clear that I am talking only about faculty and most staff. However, the same cannot be said for administrators.
C Jae of EAV
April 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
I got a silly idea, Instead of the constant tuition hiking, how about we take all the HOPE money and give to the University System and generally lower the cost of in-state tuition across the board so that students may actually be able to afford it.
I’m just saying. Commurate with this expect that the cost of private school on the secondary level will hike up as well. They seem to be closely indexed.
Clarence
April 17th, 2012
2:32 pm
Maureen, while the costs of Ivy schools and other nationwide trends are interesting, they don’t relate to Georgia. It remains very affordable to attend college in this state. While the research Universities are more expensive than the other schools in the state, even they are below national averages. With HOPE (even in diminished form), Pell, and other scholarships available, it remains extremely possible to work one’s way through college at a Public Georgia institution without selling a kidney. If you want to do some numbers that relate to the story, starting trying to figure out what a semester a Kennesaw would cost, or Georgia Gwinnett. That’s the story that affects most of Georgia.
Misty Fyed
April 17th, 2012
2:37 pm
Yet this morning’s headline was about major state schools bragging about the number of kids who can’t afford school who are now able to get their degree debt free. So now the colleges are increasing my kids tuition to take my and my kid’s money and use it to pay for somebody else’s kids tuition.
That’s fair..
Jason
April 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
How much did the students of GSU vote to increase their student fees by so they could have a completely optional and educationally unimportant football team? Seems to be a lot of costs that could be cut at universities and it’s not all in administration. Get rid of the rock climbing walls, the plush housing, and the thousand other luxuries that earlier generations didn’t have and then we can talk about the rising costs.
MiltonMan
April 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
“Depending on your major, the course work is considerably harder and more rigorous. No offense, but for those who went to school back in those days, I can almost bet you wouldn’t even be accepted to the same school today.”
Bull! Engineering was hard then. Pelase expalin how is has gotten more difficult. If anything, most students have more time thanks to portable devices – laptops, phones, etc. and do not have to spend hours at the library researching the material like I did.
jd
April 17th, 2012
2:43 pm
@ Maureen,
First — you can’t lump private and public together and have a reasoned discussion about tuition. Since your article is based upon USG tuition — let’s keep the topic there.
Second, the costs of public higher ed is the sum of state subsidies and student paid (charged) tuition,. A+B=C. In 1995, Ga had a formula — taxpayers paid 75% of C, students 25% of C. Now, state tax funds pay for approximately 50% of C, which accounts for a 100% increase in B to cover the gap — and C never changes.
Third, the value of an education at GT is without a doubt best in the world. When you compare tuition and taxpayer funded costs among other states — Georgia’s system outperforms them by a large margin… so, why does the AJC continue to denigrate efforts to maintain quality at a bargain?
@Follow — those buildings were built to accommodate demand — student population has doubled in less then 15 years — and the legislature agreed to fund maintenance costs at the rate business fund maintenance costs — and then due to budgetary pressures, pulled back. (We are also behind other infrastructure maintenance to the tune of billions). So, no, your point is not proven — the partners who agreed to finance maintenance had to back away from their commitments… the same is true for K12….
Ron F.
April 17th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Yet this morning’s headline was about major state schools bragging about the number of kids who can’t afford school who are now able to get their degree debt free.”
Really? How is that done? I tried like crazy to find someone to pay for my master’s and nobody told me I could get it debt free. This is exaggeration. Besides, if they qualify for anything “free”, it’s because they have Pell Grant money coming in from the feds, so the state pays none of that.
Halftrack
April 17th, 2012
2:44 pm
I agree with C Jae of EAV Instead of the constant tuition hiking, how about we take all the HOPE money and give to the University System and generally lower the cost of in-state tuition across the board so that students may actually be able to afford it. Also lets be sure to not let illegal aliens pay nothing or less than in-state citizens. Professors at Colleges should teach a minimum of X hours for their Salaries. All other State employees, Teachers, etc. have to work a minimum number of days each year for their salaries.
Prof
April 17th, 2012
2:45 pm
@ EduKtr, April 17, 1:59 pm. You’re at it again. You claim over and over on other blogs that Georgia’s K-12 teachers belong to a teacher’s union when that’s illegal according to our Constitution; and now you state that professors do too. Ridiculous. Never have anywhere in this country, and, I predict, never will. And not because it’s against the law…because we don’t need unions. We’re very different from K-12 educators, and so is our profession. And if you don’t know the difference, I’m not going to spend the time spelling it out for you.
@ Michael Moore, April 17, 2:26 pm. Depending upon the USG school, some administrators have had furloughs and pay freezes along with their faculty and staff. At my own, they have.
And for those complaining that there should be cuts in the numbers of highly paid college administrators, I believe that has already begun with the consolidation of 8 USG schools into 4….and I don’t think that’s the end of the consolidations.
Follow the Course
April 17th, 2012
2:49 pm
jd … basics … if you can not afford it don’t buy it … even if their is a demand and it is OK if kids want to become “technical experts” learn a craft … The colleges have “marketed” themselves as an “end-all” while they have dismembered the technical schools … we are not needing what the “big” schools have made.
William Casey
April 17th, 2012
2:52 pm
Administrative costs HAVE skyrocketed but professors’ salaries have been frozen for years. However, a hidden (unless you’ve been on campus) reason for increased costs are the lavish (compared to what I knew in the ’60’s) amenities available to students. I’m not necessisarily against this. I want my son, who’s a Junior at Georgia Southern, to have it better than I did. However, student living quarters, activity centers, gyms, classroom, medical facilties, etc. are FAR superior to what I experienced. Do you really want your student crammed three to a 10×12 dorm room as I was in ‘68 at West Georgia? I visited my alma mater recently and was amazed at the physical plant. When I went off to school, I experienced a severe drop in standard of living. Not so with my son. This doesn’t explain all of the increased cost. But, I bet it’s a chunk.
Ann
April 17th, 2012
2:55 pm
We got married later in life and had our children when we were in our late 30s. We didn’t think college would be an enormous expense and had no trouble with the idea that our children might have to work for part of their tuition. Tuition costs were low, HOPE was certainly something they could do, and jobs were abundant. We thought we would have the ability to fund the rest of their costs through a Home Equity Loan. We all know what happened to home equity. Not all subjects are taught at all colleges, so we wound up with a Bulldawg. Proud we are, but we are also in debt. Jobs aren’t all that easy to come by either. Home Depot couldn’t wait to hire our Spanish speaking student, until (after 3 years of Spanish) they decided she wasn’t fluent enough. So now our student will have a debt of $26,000 and we will have debt of $30,000. It will be worth every penny, because if you don’t get that piece of paper you might lose that job you trained for either working or going to trade school. It should not be that way, but I have known several people who either lost their job or were not allowed to advance because they didn’t have a college degree. I do hope that is changing, but when employers are looking at who to hire and who to promote they often use the degree as a deciding factor. This is true even when the degree has no relevance to the job at hand.
jd
April 17th, 2012
3:03 pm
@follow — short of adopting the politburo method of planning higher ed — you won’t be satisfied. The market is responding to the products offered and wants more… As for the technical colleges — they did quite nice allowing more than 75% of their students to pay for their education with HOPE dollars – no matter what their grade average was for brick laying, baking, and private flying lessons.
carlosgvv
April 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
As college tuitions continue to soar and more and more college graduates are unable to find jobs, look for trades to be the next big thing in education.
Follow the Course
April 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
jd … Oh … now the name calling and political references begin … you are a product that we don’t need … nad how many chairs/classrooms in the tech schools? what is the percent/ratio of 4 yr schools space and tech school space?
Clarence
April 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
I’ll take a stab at it myself…
2 semester tuition and fees at KSU: $6,400
Living Expenses: $12,000 (that amount should be able to cover EITHER rent and expenses OR on-campus living with room to spare – could be lower if summers are spent with mom and dad)
That brings us to $18,400.
If you assume HOPE covers 60% of tuition ($2,911) and the average Pell Grant ($3,593), you’d need to earn a hair under $12,000 to covers costs without debt. Working a job at $7.50/hr, 25 hours 39 weeks a year and 40 hours 13 weeks a year, you’d earn a bit over $11,000. Bump it up to 20 weeks a year full time, and maybe you’ve made enough extra to buy your books instead of checking them out of the library.
And that scenario doesn’t even take into account more creative solutions like over-loading a semester to get more credit hours for the dollar, and/or attending school during the (shorter) summer instead of fall or spring to have a longer time to work and save.
And I still have my kidney.
Gold
April 17th, 2012
3:17 pm
M. Downey,
You would have had to select a school that was cheaper. People make choices based on money every day of their lives. You make it sound like it is Columbia or nothing.
Ole Guy
April 17th, 2012
3:38 pm
OK then…things are tough; sandwitched between the customary complaints and the attributions toward the dirty _ astards whose primary mission in life is to screw everyone, it’s common knowledge that…well…things are tough. WHAT THE HELL ELSE IS NEW?! Was it ever…not-tough? Howbout you people quitcherbitchin and find a way to achieve your goals. You don’t seem to have much difficulty living in the finest homes, driving the finest cars, providing the little ones with…not simply a functioning cell phone, but the ones with all the wizbang features, etc, etc, etc. Now you complain because the free ride, known as HOPE, just might not be as free as it once was…BOOFREQUINHOO! You all want only (that which you feel is) the best; there’s no compromising on your GD images of self-above-all. “Who, me…go to a neighborhood cow college/jr coll/join the military, serve honorably, and take advantage of govt assistance? Oh, no…not me. Let others become inconvenienced by the harsh realities that we just might not get all that our lil’ ole hearts desire. And face the possibility that college just may not be in my future? Gee, that would mean that I can’t do the “Animal House” thing.”
(picture 18 y/o throwing tantrum, rolling upon floor, kicking shoes upon same while threatening to hold breath until someone makes it all better)
GROW THE HELL UP, YOU TWERPS. If you really want a college education, you’ll find the answers. It’s my guess, judging from the calibre of complaints, that you’ll probably take the easy way out…take on a buttload of debt, get your lousy degrees, and file Chapter 11.
Or you might benefit, in the long run, by simply acknowledging reality, assessing your goals against this newfound knowledge, and approach this early phase in your young life like (gulp) mature adults.
Shar
April 17th, 2012
3:43 pm
@C J of EAV and Halftrack: HOPE is supposed to support students who earn it through high grades. It is given to the universities anyway, but if it were to become some kind of block grant it would no longer be merit-based and it would no longer go to the institution most able to attract the high achieving students but rather dissapated over all schools and all students. That is not what the program is for.
ATLBRAVE
April 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
Attending a typical big name four year University has turned into a Wal-Mart shopping experience. In other words its all about the Dollars and the Cents. Education is 3rd or 4th on the list depending on the school. Each student walking around the campus these days are looked at as nothing more than another tuition payment. The only people benefiting from education these days are those who major in the 4-5 degree majors that actually land them a job, and the student athletes who go for free because they can dribble, catch or throw a ball. Tuition will cont. to rise forever as long as classrooms are full and government assistance is readily available like it is now. Certain professors and school administrators will cont. to rake in high six-figure salaries off the backs of students and students majoring in “art literature and sociology” will cont. be 50K in debt with no job after 4-6 years of a college education. This little increase has NOTHING to do with the State of GA its across the boards in almost every state. Its just like gas prices, we all need gas to drive and our kids will need school just to have a shot at a job. Get used to it!
Fed up with College waisting MONEY
April 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
Runaway college tuition = runaway college presidents and vice-presidents and various directors salary etc. etc. CUT the fat on the top. Start with the Governor (Recall him) then the Board of regents, the problem started with Errol Davis (Sonny’s boy. Look what he has done to APS). If every college would cut pay at the top that would save millions. All college presidents do is pay consulting firms to do their jobs.
Just my 1.5 cents.
Shar
April 17th, 2012
3:47 pm
@Misty Fyed, I agree. It appears that the students attending the research universities are not only paying the highest tuition by far, they are also being required to subsidize not only the lower tuition increases at the bulk of the USG schools but with the new “Promise” programs they have to pay for the tuition of select fellow students as well.
I’m now waiting for the lawsuit that will only add legal fees to the stupid administrative waste the Regents have approved.
greg
April 17th, 2012
4:04 pm
The regents are crooks plain and simple, always building contracts for thier buddies, kickbacks from Scott Forsman for over sized books which cost 20 times what they should. These morons ever heard of CD’s? But if you use a CD or DVD instead of books you cannot charge the same. Half the teachers are perverts on both sexes, fire or get rid of the Governor and the regents and things will improve quickly. Deal just came out with another rich white kid program for 34 million to help his country club buddies, they do not want common folk to go to college they will be needed in the future for wars, these greedy buffoons keep getting us into, goes for both parties. This country is ruined by these so called leaders. Hey how aout no oone go to UGA for a year and watch what happens, we can turn it into a insane hospital for the regents.
NONPC
April 17th, 2012
4:06 pm
“Depending on your major, the course work is considerably harder and more rigorous. No offense, but for those who went to school back in those days, I can almost bet you wouldn’t even be accepted to the same school today.”
BS. They are teaching the same (core) calculus that they taught 100 years ago. They are teaching the same (core) English. They have been teaching the same (core) Chemistry for 40 years. They have been teaching the same core physics since Einstein. The fact is that while the higher level courses have changed over the last couple of decades, the core has remained constant for a VERY long time.
There is nothing in the curriculum that warrants a 100% rise in tuition in each of the last three decades.
williebkind
April 17th, 2012
4:08 pm
You know what this means in reality dont you–yeah my lottery tickets are going up.
x+y=z
April 17th, 2012
4:26 pm
are these per semester quotes for in-state students?
EduKtr
April 17th, 2012
4:28 pm
@Prof: You’re an idiot. And I hope not a real professor. Though as a Georgia taxpayer, I fear the worst …
Furthermore, you’ve obviously got skin in the game when it comes to shilling for the teachers’ unions, as you hyper-react to any implied union criticism (and God knows, there’s much negative which can be said about the National Education Association!)
But according to YOU, there are no teachers’ unions … just Georgia educators who pay to belong to them! ref: http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm
My earlier point was that reforms in education are always opposed by those with a vested interest in the status quo. Your union employers, for instance? And that allowing more students to gain college credits through testing might be a sound way to lower college costs.
You have a problem with helping to lower college costs?
Univ Employee
April 17th, 2012
4:53 pm
@Shar the “Promise” programs are funded by private donations. No money is taken from paying students and given to select fellow students.
Maureen Downey
April 17th, 2012
4:58 pm
@X, yes
yuzeyurbrane
April 17th, 2012
4:59 pm
Whatever happened to public education? The wealthy will go to college and the middle class and poor will go to trade schools. A thrifty hardworking low paid working class. Georgia will sink further behind in 21st Century industries but the small minded fat cats who run things will remain comfortable in their Dickensian splendor.
Ole Guy
April 17th, 2012
5:03 pm
Before deciding to follow in Dad’s footsteps and fly for Uncle Sam, I, to, wanted to be a college joe. Mom was crying because, at the “high” tuition rates of 1964, it appeared that 18 y/o Ole Guy would not be going to U. So Ole Guy got his first “real job” baggin’ groceries at the local A&P, earning enough so that, with a liberal helping of Dad’s financial prow, Ole Guy had a chance to wander the halls…and the quad in front of the girls’ dorm…at U. Following a few semesters of far-far-less-than-glowing academic work, Ole Guy decided to stop wasting HIS time and THE OLE MAN’S money, and attend Ft Benning School for wayward youth.
I know…different time, different yada yada, etc. The point…I JUMPED, FEET FIRST, INTO THE UNKNOWN, just like many had done before me. After serving my first tour…still a twenty-something…I KNEW what I wanted, and what it would take to achieve that goal. I had EARNED a modest tuition assistance, compliments of the VA and, by mid-30’s, I had earned my first degree, my first masters, and a pretty damn good toe hold in my career.
Is this supposed to be Ole Guy’s modified autobio? Certainly not…simply this: COME HELL OR HIGH WATER, THERE IS A WAY. Ya just have to be willing to subject yourself to the discomforts of the unknown.
Does anyone have any spheroids out there?
Simple Man
April 17th, 2012
5:13 pm
If you don’t think college is worth the cost, then don’t go.
Dear Lord Ole Guy
April 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
Dear Lord Ole Guy, I am a veteran too but I would never ever want my kids to risk their lives to get a college education. One should not have to join the service in order to afford college tuition.
Enough blather about the military.
Risking your life is NOT an option to pay for college.
You and I are the lucky ones. We returned from the war with our minds and bodies intact enough to think and learn and go to college. Our friends weren’t so lucky or have you forgotten that some of us died ?
Csoby
April 17th, 2012
5:25 pm
Time for accountability of the University System and exactly where does the money go. Time for the representatives and senators to step up and require documentation that tuition needs to raise..or is this just another elite government agency wasting the tax payers money..perhaps a ponsi scheme!
Prof
April 17th, 2012
5:42 pm
@ EduKtr, 4:28 pm. I’m not “hyper-reacting”; I just get very tired of the same lie repeated ad nauseum.
Click on the link for “NEA Affiliates” at the top of this NEA website that you give here, and you will see that the states that have “right-to-work” (non-union) laws such as Georgia have established “NEA Affiliate” organizations. Note that what these NEA Affiliates are able to do is lobby, campaign politically, and file legal actions on behalf of educators– all actions that any citizen can do, union or non-union. BUT the NEA Affiliates have no collective bargaining rights–and that is what defines genuine unions.
NEA Affiliate members cannot strike, nor can its organization bargain with employers on behalf of its educator employees, nor can it require that the employers hire only union members. GAE members may be NEA Affiliates and pay their $130 annual dues, but it’s not to get union protection. For they’re not genuine union members.
There are plenty of benefits to joining, such as national educational reports and studies, seminars in various subjects related to teaching, political updates on educational issues, and so on. And it probably helps to raise the morale of those who generally feel disrespected, insulted, and ignored by the public. But being a full-fledged union member is not one of the benefits.
catlady
April 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
Mysty Fied: That is actually quite common in other states. (High tuition/high aid states–Georgia is neither.)
EduKtr
April 17th, 2012
6:16 pm
@Prof: Wrong again.
All states have National Education Association affiliates. These affiliates represent the NEA in each particular state.They ARE the NEA in those states. The Georgia Association of Educators is no different in that respect than the Massachusetts Teachers’ Association.
Both funnel cash to the National Education Association, and have paid NEA staff in their state offices. All GAE members here are required to belong to the NEA and to fund the union’s political activities: http://goo.gl/bNdPt
Please stop disseminating crafty union hair-splitting arguments ad nauseum. GAE members belong to a national union—and fund that union’s preference for Democrats and liberal causes, exactly as do Massachusetts union teachers.
And why, by the way, do you belabor readers with long-winded defenses of the union … if you’re an “impartial observer” with no union connection?
mountain man
April 17th, 2012
6:34 pm
“A better question would be: exactly what costs are increasing at the various universities which require the schools to raise tuition costs?”
Have you been on UGA’s campus recently and seen all the nice new, state-of-the-art buildings? The new student center? Wonder where that construction money is coming from? Give the tudents a break. Don’t MAKE them live in student housing, don’t MAKE them buy meal plans, and don’t LET professors require you to buy THEIR book for your college course (at $200).
Ron F.
April 17th, 2012
7:04 pm
Tuition costs have gone up as state money has gone down. Technology is expensive, and like any business, the cost ends up passed on to the consumer. This wouldn’t be so bad if incomes rose at the same rate, but they don’t and for most Americans have been basically flatlined when adjusted for inflation since 1979. College aspirations for many have have to be scaled back, and many families are finding it harder to contribute. Even if you were smart enough to plan from birth, not many families have enough in savings to cover the costs. My oldest is already looking at smaller state universities and colleges and we’re discussing options to live at home or off campus with friends if it’s cheaper. I’m being very realistic with him about the options and don’t plan on doing student loans. But, to the original question, it is harder for students to work and pay for school these days. At some point, when universities can’t attract enough kids, they’ll find ways to reduce the price, but they won’t until then.
Azander
April 17th, 2012
7:19 pm
Every time the Regents increase tuition and/or fees, and it gets reported in the ajc, I cringe because I know the usual “those overpaid, worthless USG employees” issue is gonna emerge from the hoi polloi.
Well, let me tell y’all something.
I worked for the USG at one of the top-five largest universities in the state for over eight years. I was part-time, staff level. I did not teach, but my job was directly linked to student learning and achievement (think “enabling research in a technologically advanced manner”) . I knew and loved my job, kept up with advances in the field, and did the work of two people in 20 hours a week. Many of my coworkers were completely, utterly, and solely dedicated to student success and proved it every single day, always with no recognition whatsoever. I knew more about my job and its relevance to the University’s mission – and its students – than did at least 4 of the 6 people hierarchically above me (in a 40-some person department). I finally left a job I absolutely loved for several reasons: no raises – merit or otherwise; no possibility of advancement for ANYONE in my division other than ineffective administrators; several years of do-more-with-less penny-pinching as valuable tax dollars were wasted on raises for said administrators, and – far, FAR from least – the ongoing attitude from certain segments of the Georgia taxpaying public that state employees are worthy only of contempt. I obtained certification in another field and moved on – and, yeah, I DID pay for that certification myself with no benefit subsidy whatsoever, thanks anyway.
One can blame tuition increases in the USG solely on two factors: (1) an overabundance of severely overpaid and underworked administrators and (2) legislative cuts. At least one of these is curable. Yet until taxpayers wake up and realize how they’re being played, tuition will continue to rise and Georgia’s future will continue to suffer.
Prof
April 17th, 2012
7:22 pm
@ EduKtr. Yes, and the political PACs have contributed millions of dollars so far to Republican primary candidates, including a billionaire who single-handedly kept Newt Gingrich in the race when few were voting for him.
I don’t like to see lies promulgated, and feel a professional solidarity with other educators, whether K-12 or professors.
Your link is to a right-wing blog of the Ed Morrissey Show. It figures.
Jayne
April 17th, 2012
7:25 pm
The regents have been asleep at the switch for years allowing tuition to escalate beyond all reason.
EduKtr
April 17th, 2012
8:09 pm
@”Prof”: Not comfortable with the National Education Association’s liberal political activism?
It’s a matter of public record. More can be found by googling “NEA” and “union,” or “NEA” and “liberal” … at least those contributions openly acknowledged by the union. Last summer’s endorsement of the Obama 2012 campaign, like their Obama endorsement of 2008 and of every Democrat presidential nominee since 1972 … are also public record.
ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD6JCRZm7To&feature=pyv
ref: http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=28409
ref: http://goo.gl/bNdPt (etc., etc., etc.)
Ban illegals from college and stop foreigners
April 17th, 2012
8:20 pm
We need to clean house and ban illegal immigrants from ALL of Georgia’s colleges. They are taking up space needed by REAL American citizens and what the he)) are we doing allowing foreigners in our colleges at all? They can go to school in their home country. WE need to pay for OUR children. If we gave the boot to the criminals (illegals) who scarf up the college funds (yes they are all getting a free ride off of legal, law-abiding citizens) then we would have more tax dollars to provide an education to REAL citizens of Georgian and the US.
I read here on these blogs that Gwinnett was experiencing a smaller increase in enrollment in K-12 because the Republican party was creating laws to decrease the amount of illegal alien/criminals. Well, I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life but thank goodness they came up with the law. We need to make the law stronger and kick out illegals. They are causing teh downfall. They need to go back home and make babies and pay their own way and apply for citizenship LEGALLY and stand in line to get in this coountry like other law-abiding people.
I cannot afford to pay for my own children, my neighbor’s children AND all the illegal aliens too.
American dollars for LEGAL AMERICANs. I’ll be glad to pay $5 for a tomato and mow my own lawn!
EduKtr
April 17th, 2012
8:32 pm
@”Prof”: …nor are the National Education Association’s political donations any less slanted. What all this cash buys is support for the status quo and opposition to education reform. Just about ANY education reform.
ref: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000064&cycle=2012
Hillbilly D
April 17th, 2012
8:38 pm
So how much can you get for a kidney, anyway?
Alex
April 17th, 2012
10:35 pm
Interesting…..no one wants to pay taxes to support higher education (or any government service) and no one wants to pay higher tuition. There is only so much waste. Seems everyone wants something for nothing. Probably the same people who were counting on all costs paid HOPE as their college savings plan! Students…..nothing is free!
bilbo799
April 17th, 2012
11:38 pm
@ Maureen.
What does the cost of graduate school at Columbia have to do with this post? Did the Board of Regents announce that UGA and GT were charging Columbia’s tuition?
The “these kids should pay for college like I did” response that you preemptively dismiss makes complete sense in the context of in-state tuition. Even assuming the worst (no financial aid, personal/family savings, or scholarship money), students can certainly find ways to finance the modest cost of in-state tuition without “selling a kidney.” I think it’s great that getting a fine education at GT or UGA is so affordable.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence
April 18th, 2012
12:40 am
When’s the last time that the USG brought in outside auditors to scrutinize its cost structure? When’s the last time that the USG required each of its member institutions to do the same? Moreover, if any such audits have occurred, were their unedited results released to the AJC and to other state media?
mountain man
April 18th, 2012
5:33 am
Nice try, Clarence, but no cigar. Your assumptions are way too cozy. First – not all students can get Pell grants, and can you get Pell grant AND HOPE scholarship. I didn’t think so. Secondly, most businesses in the market for college workerss do not want to work them more than 19 hours per week, because they then have to pay benefits, and they do not want to do that. So you are left with the option of finding TWO part-time jobs that mesh together. I worked full-time in the summer in the late seventies, but again , rules have changed, and college students are competing against regular unemployed ( a lot of them) for the full-time jobs. A lot of businesses also don’t want to hire full-time college students that will only be there three months – training costs, etc.
Don’t forget the fees and books. I know you say that you can go to the library and check out books – that is a little hard when the Professor requires you to have a book that also has the DVD study guide and a remote control to answer questions in his 150 student classroom. (by the way, did I mention he was the author of the book he required?). And the fees that are MANDATORY to support athletics, whether you go or participate or not.
You make it sound so easy, but the truth is that even good students from average middle-class homes are having to take out large student loans AS WELL AS work their butt off at a job, to make ends meet.
GwinnettMom
April 18th, 2012
8:11 am
I sent input to the board of regents in February asking them to please evaluate the mandatory fee and recommend that a waiver process be in place for all fees. For example, GGC charges a parking fee to every student, even those that do not have a driver’s license nor car. My daughter graduated in December and the increase in fees from dual enrollment (where many mandatory fees are waived and there is a stipend for fees and book allowance) was 75% of her tuition, or almost the entire amount of HOPE scholarship. She is going to a small, private, out of state college. Even before scholarships, it is almost the same cost as UGA & Tech would be.
Mountain Man
April 18th, 2012
8:40 am
The State of Georgia used to think that supporting colleges was good for the State, that companies like States where lots of people graduate from college and they can find educated workers for their companies. Now it appears that the State is saying, “Hey, if you want a college education, you pay the full cost of it yourself, we aren’t going to kick in any money”. Unfortunately, because high school diplomas have been so downgraded as to be worthless, EVERY person knows that to get anywhere in life, you have to have a college education, so they pay whatever it takes to be part of that group that has a 5% unemployment rate. And they end up in a sea of student loans. Just so we can pay college presidents outlandish salaries, have nice new stadiums, and state of the art student centers, and professors can supplement their salary through their textbook sales.
Yankee Prof
April 18th, 2012
10:19 am
One of the hardest-hit industries in this recession has been Construction. The fact that the USG has continued to fund construction projects at its institutions should be seen as yet another way that the system as a whole serves Georgia. . . . How many people have we kept employed via these projects?
Clarence
April 18th, 2012
10:20 am
@mountain man
My assumptions include mandatory fees at KSU, though not books (which I admit can get very expensive). You are correct that not everyone qualifies for a Pell Grant, and not everyone qualifies for HOPE. I would say though, that a family well-off enough to not qualify for Pell should be willing and expected to pitch in something in the neighborhood of $3000 a year for their kids to go to college – if it were too much of a hardship, they’d qualify for Pell. And if a kid doesn’t qualify for HOPE, I’d certainly question whether going to the expensive public schools in GA are a good decision. I picked KSU because it is about middle of the road in the cost spectrum of Georgia schools. But if a kid can’t manage a 3.0 in high school, they really should be considering the cheaper options like Georgia Gwinnett, Perimeter, or even a Technical College institution.
I’ll admit I didn’t spend a ton of time researching what a student can expect to make, moneywise, but I don’t think it is out of the question to expect a little work. I had two part time jobs in college, and I knew plenty of friends who waited tables much more than 20 hours a week. I have a hard time believing that those opportunities no longer exist for those seeking them. I suppose I could be proven wrong on that, but the cut off limit on benefits from a law perspective is, I believe, 30 hours and not 20. That may be different depending on a company’s policies, but a place like Rocky’s Pizza (or whatever took its place) isn’t paying health insurance for anyone.
My point was to bring some actual relevant numbers to the discussion (rather than Columbia Univeristy). Middle class families don’t need loans for higher education – they choose not to plan and/or rely on loans. Lower class families have do have fewer options, it is true, but we have VERY affordable schools in this state, and a combination of hard work in high school, Pell, and a willingness to get a job can make college very do-able. Now if the arguement is that every Georgian should be entitled to go to UGA or Georgia Tech without working a job at all, then it is true, only the wealthiest can now afford that option.
mountain man
April 18th, 2012
12:33 pm
I apologize, my wife has corrected me: you can receive HOPE and Pell at the same time. Yes, I will agree that it is POSSIBLE to go to a cheaper or middle-of-the-road college and not take out loans if you work your butt off. My daughter just graduated from UGA where she worked (a lot) and had HOPE (did not qualify for Pell). We contributed what we could (4 kids in college), but she still ended up having to have SOME student loans (not too bad).
In college (UGA) I worked over 50 hours a weeK in the summer, worked 10 hours a week during the school year, lived rent-free in a retail establishment where I was the night watchman, and graduated with minimum loans to repay. But the tuition then was a FRACTION of what it is now, and fees were very small, and books were not $600 per semester (quarters then).
I just object to the waste and frivolous requirements that UGA ladles onto all the students.
Ole Guy
April 18th, 2012
5:08 pm
Dear Lord, OG, we’re not talking any more about risking one’s life in order to gain college assistance than we are about risking the very same lives in the daily things we go in normal life: driving upon the hiways and byways…even venturing into once-considered “safe” areas. I only mention the potential option of military service because…it would appear, for the first time in recorded history…this generation (school age to mid-aged adults) seems to be quite content in allowing “others” to carry the brunt of reality while they simply wait, like a nest of birds, beaks wide, for someone else to provide. As I’ve so-often mentioned, this gen has never been truly tested. Perhaps this “educational crisis” is that very test. It’s either that, or, thanks to that very gen, civilization, as we know it, can simply stop.
bootney farnsworth
April 18th, 2012
5:24 pm
I’ve been saying for as long as I can remember that higher ed. is more corrupt than APS.
you want an example of why costs keep going up?
take a hard look at the social engineering going on at GPC under the guise of “service learning”.
or look into how much it costs to throw major events the school does
not want or need to function.
I can give chapter and verse on why the costs of education have
exploded, how schools are wasting money by the bucketful, and the
professionally incestous ways the upper management types reward
their enforcers.
I can, but I don’t since frankly nobody wants to hear it.
but God forbid the 3rd string long snapper at Georgia get in
trouble ….
bootney farnsworth
April 18th, 2012
5:26 pm
@ yankee prof.
God knows GPC hasn’t stopped building.
bootney farnsworth
April 18th, 2012
5:27 pm
@ NONPC
you are incorrect.
the coursework is very different than just 5 years ago.
bootney farnsworth
April 18th, 2012
5:33 pm
BTW: since when has a summer job been sufficent for paying for college?
this whole premise is badly misleading and intellectually dishonest
bootney farnsworth
April 18th, 2012
5:46 pm
another reason for skyrocketing costs?
simple.
ever since Steve Portch ushered in the concept of presidents as monarchs who may do as they wish, the USG has had a full load of
lawsuits to defend.
and more come every day.
Ole Guy
April 18th, 2012
6:12 pm
Farns, that sort of collegiate chicanery is nothing new. I saw it demonstrated, in a number of ways, during my mid-70’s foray in collegeland. We all know (should know) that money and corruption go hand-in-hand…always has; always will. Recent news of corruption/theft within church communities bear out the sad fact that corruption is, unfortunately, a sad sad fact of life. We can talk, all day, about the dirty lowdown _ astards who seem to devote their entire miserable lives to promulgating this fact…OR…we can put the wimpers on the back burner and focus on our missions/our life’s goals and aspirations. Do these dirty deeds ever come to the surface of public awareness? They did for scumbag nadoff (I may have mispelled bernie’s fine nom de shame), as they surely will for many within the morass of public education. The bottom line…nobody…least of all the youth of today…can afford the luxury of throwing darts at obscure targets. These kids, AND their equally stupid parents, need to focus on the immediacy of getting the most out of opportunity, because…guess frequinwhat…that opportunity simply ain’t gonna present itself indeffinitely.
While the problems/the financial demands are enormous, (news flash!)…THEY AIN’T GOING AWAY! A college education NEVER was cheap, inexpensive, or easily covered out of a household’s petty cash…THAT’S A FACT, JACK! So howbout you people stop reminding yourselves how tough life is. As Suzzy Orman suggests, try living, not at, but below your means…it’s called/always has been called (drum role) SACRIFICE.
Dekalbite@Half track
April 19th, 2012
10:06 am
“Professors at Colleges should teach a minimum of X hours for their Salaries”
Science professors do not retain emoyment unless they write research grants to bring money into their department. They pay their salaries out of the grants so in essence they pay their own way from the grants. Now they can’t write research grants without research. Research takes time that must be taken from teaching. This may not be ideal for teaching students, but this is the way research dollars are brought into the university system.
Prof
April 19th, 2012
5:38 pm
Dekalbite@Half Track.
That’s true for ALL professors who win federal grants. In addition, their universities are given funds by the granting agency to cover indirect costs of the research grant: energy costs to heat and light the laboratories, costs for the offices, etc.
Professors who win such grants are at the top of their fields, and this benefits the upper level and graduate students whom they teach.
I know many professors at what used to be called the Medical College of Georgia whose total salaries are paid through the federal health grants they win, so that they cost the Georgia taxpayer nothing.
Dekalbite@Prof
April 20th, 2012
8:45 pm
I don’t think the general public realizes what goes into the funding of higher education. Business and non profit organization and federal money goes into our universities in the from of grants, and they expect something in return – namely research and products. Universities expect this as a source of funding. So in many instances, those professors are hired to perform and oversee the research that brings in the money – not to teach. As you pointed out, this is beneficial to the many graduate students who participate in this research as well as to the companies, and organizations and the federal government and ultimately to the public at large. Universities are often incubators for whole new industries (reference the doctoral students who started Google).