Justice Department to look into discrimination against students with disabilities

seen it all

April 6th, 2012
4:44 am

I think there is some discrimination against students with disabilities. Many teachers don’t want these students in their classrooms. They would love to have them locked away in SPED “resource rooms” or “self contained” classes.

I also believe that English language learners (ELLs), another category of special needs students, are discriminated against as well. These students are isolated in the schools and teachers consistently ignore the educational needs of this student group. Schools do very little to meet the needs of ELLs. Part of the problem has to do with the fact that most ELLs are immigrants or come from families who immigrated to the U.S. I know that there are people who actually refuse ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) services for their children because they don’t want their children labeled and obstracized as being “ELL”.

The two categories of “shame” in our schools: SPED and ELL/ESOL. It was even worse because of NCLB and AYP.

On a lighter note- one group of students NOT discriminated against- “gifted” students. Why? Because, as the research shows, “gifted and talented” programs tend serve more white and middle class students. MInorities tend to be overlooked for “gifted” programs despite the fact the the research shows that giftedness runs across all groups of people regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, national origin, religion, etc. In general about 4% of a population is “gifted”, yet the gifted and talented programs in our schools (especially here in GA), consist of mainly white children. In schools with children of color, G/T programs are virtually non-existent. Yet in suburban, “white” schools, the number of students served in “gifted” and AP/IB classes is humongous in comparison. Does that mean that only white people are smart and people of color (blacks, hispanics, Asians, etc.) are dumb?

Here the connection I see:
Black and brown, get put in SPED and ESOL (left to rot).
White and middle class, get put in “gifted”.
SPED and ESOL class- bad.
“Gifted” class-good.
SPED and ESOL- dumb and a “problem”
“Gifted”: Smart and an “asset”

Just food for thought.

ScienceTeacher671

April 6th, 2012
6:15 am

I think it depends on the district, and maybe on the child and the parents.

Personally, I’ve had several parent complaints because the child was “too mainstreamed” and the work was too challenging, and the parents felt their children should be in resource rooms where they would receive more attention, instead of taught with the general population.

To be fair, since the classes I teach would be inclusive/collaborative and not resource, I would not necessarily get the opposite complaint.

mountain man

April 6th, 2012
6:33 am

Two things I have constantly raised as issues:

1) – Mainstreaming of SPED students (or ELL/ESOL) takes resources away from the teacher and the quality of education for the rest of the class goes down. Even if the SPED student has his/her own teacher’s aide.

2) – SPED student education is a drain on the finances of the school – the “average” dollars spent on students is highly skewed, with a large portion going to Special Education. In my opinion, this is related to mainstreaming, that segregating them into their own class would be MUCH cheaper and the quality of their education (if you can call it that) would not go down that much.

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
8:15 am

Most SLD (Specific Learning Disability) and OHI (Otherwise Health Impaired) students can function in a regular education setting with appropriate accommodations. I teach in a inclusion setting. I enjoy my inclusion classes.

BUT…this past year, my class sizes have jumped above 32+. I am overwhelmed.

Mountain Man

April 6th, 2012
8:20 am

So, teacher & Mom, what are “appropriate accomodations? You say you are “overwhelmed” with a class of 32, would you be overwhelmed if the SPED student(s) were not there? How much extra work is added when you add a SPED student to your class? How much time does working with the SPED student take away from instruction time with the rest of the class?

These are the answers I would like to know.

Csoby

April 6th, 2012
8:26 am

So whio is discriminated against when the teacher has to dumb down the lessons to accomodiate a few…talk about disctrimination..lets just put everyone to the lowers common denominator and call the USA a bunch of idiots. Again, the government and Lawyers tearing down the educational system

Joe Frank

April 6th, 2012
8:33 am

In a “good” system, the children are mainstreamed, ANYONE gets into the gifted program that is deserving, and the ESOL students are served and eventually mainstreamed as well. The local school board is our most basic form of self government representation. IF yours is not serving your children as it should, VOT THEM OUT! Quit expecting the FEDS to solve all your problems.
As harsh as it seems, there are some children with disabilities that will never be able to be mainstreamed. They drain the resources to serve children that would be better served in a spcial needs environment.
As food for thought, IF the charter school amendment passes, just see how many schools pop up that do only serve an elite student and leave the rest to struggle in a depleted public school. All the time using your tax dollars.

carlosgvv

April 6th, 2012
8:36 am

It’s actually pretty simple:

1. Catering to the needs of children with special needs costs money.
2. Money is hard to come by because of so many corrupt politicians..
3. Therefore, Georgia will not do anything until forced to by the Govt.

As for Geogia’s policies being “antiquated”, that’s just a polite term for crooked and incompetent.

CLM72

April 6th, 2012
8:58 am

If there is any group of students which has more “rights” than others, it is SPED students…and believe me, their parents know all about those rights.

When I look at the resources that are spent on special ed students (collectively and individually) in my school, I cannot understand how anyone could say that the students are discriminated against because of funding…with the combination of special ed teachers, para-pros, diagnostic tools, and a myriad of other special resources, the per-student spending for special education is through the roof!
And those resources are spent in a combination of mainstreamed and individualized efforts.

Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence

April 6th, 2012
8:59 am

Unless it’s changed markedly since my retirement from classroom teaching, Special Ed is the biggest paper chase since the Egyptians’ invention of papyrus. It was almost-all about the paperwork. Little attention was paid to improving learning for the kids.

Hopefully, things have improved for the better. But the SPLC’s suit suggests otherwise.

By the way, I’ve presented the SPLC with an idea for another suit after this one is settled. The idea: PubEd administrators demonstrate deliberate indifference to the deleterious effects on the academic and social skills of large numbers of poor and minority kids who matriculate in public schools which exhibit deplorable learning climates.

Ron F.

April 6th, 2012
9:07 am

Mountain Man: In most cases, all the special ed. kids get is extra time for tests or a copy of notes (which most of us have on the computer anyway). If the child needs one-on-one, he/she is usually not in an inclusion class or the inclusion teacher pulls them out for testing or one-on-one time. I’ve had inclusion teachers who ended up helping the regular ed. kids more than the special ed. kids. They all need some one-on-one help every now and then. The only issues I’ve seen are the same as for every kid: attendance, motivation, and effort. It really depends on the school and the willingness of the administration to schedule kids according to their needs. I agree with teacher and mom that the number of kids in the class, whether regular ed. or special ed. influences the level of success more than anything else.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 6th, 2012
9:18 am

I think the issue depends upon the system in which you work. I have worked in systems in which very little was done for ESOL or Special Ed students. On the other hand, I have worked in systems where those students were given so much support in terms of time, money and personnel that regular Ed students suffered from fewer resources. Gifted classes can suffer cuts as the needs to students with cognitive impairments increase. The idea being they will do well anyway, and the school likely won’t get sued if they aren’t served. Much of the reason for the rise in educational spending has to do with the high cost of accommodating special needs students – many more of whom are surviving childhood (thanks to medical breakthroughs) and entering our school systems. People tend to over look this when they talk about the great increase in what taxpayers spend per child over the past decades. Children who require one on one aides or special equipment are expensive to a school system.

What needs to be kept in mind is the idea of “balance.” Not all students with disabilities are the same. Some can handle the regular classroom setting. Some cannot. The problems arise when one tries to implement a “one size fits all” approach.

Thanks to NCLB, many special Ed students receive the same content curriculum as their regular Ed classmates. This can be positive, as it means they have the same opportunities to earn a balanced education. No longer should a child with the ability to learn content be stuck in a corner and denied access due to a learning disability or a physical disability.

However, it can also be negative when the child simply cannot handle the material. I am not talking about students who may ‘struggle” with a subject – I am talking about students who simply CANNOT learn the material no matter how many times or ways in which it is presented. They simply are not capable of doing so. In this case, the child becomes constantly frustrated, takes up the teachers’ time trying to get her/him to learn material that is well above her/his cognitive level of understanding, and then makes the school look like it is failing when the student does not do well on end of the year tests for AYP. These children should be learning LIFE SKILLS, not about atoms and molecules.

No matter how much differentiating a teacher tries to implement, teaching a full classroom in which you have gifted children AND low cognitive functioning special Ed children and ESOL children who are reading two grade levels below all the content area text is NOT as beneficial to any of the students as classes in which students are ability grouped. But “ability grouping” is frowned upon….

Do I think students with special needs should be mainstreamed? Yes… but only to the extent that doing so serves them and the regular Ed students. If they cannot handle the content, then don’t mainstream them in that subject. Have them learn skills that are more applicable to their needs.

Of course, this means having educators AND parents who are truly interested in what is best for each particular child, who know the child well, who are realistic about the child’s potential and abilities, and who are willing to work with each other to do what is best for each individual child while keeping in mind the needs of the other students as well.

A Conservative Voice

April 6th, 2012
9:21 am

I tell you what, folks……if you don’t stop screwing up our public school systems, they’re gonna vanish……..wait, hold on……just forget what I said

Mountain Man

April 6th, 2012
9:35 am

“Much of the reason for the rise in educational spending has to do with the high cost of accommodating special needs students – many more of whom are surviving childhood (thanks to medical breakthroughs) and entering our school systems”

That is a great observation. Thank you for actually seeing the elephant in the room.

Lee

April 6th, 2012
9:38 am

LOL @Conservative

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
9:43 am

On the other hand, the national debt now stands at $15.5 trillion, up from $10.5 trillion in 2008.

The extra dollars being printed just to pay the INTEREST on this debt are steadily eroding the value of everyone’s life savings—and guaranteeing that our children (including those with special needs) will have a blighted economic future.

Lee

April 6th, 2012
9:52 am

Back in the 70’s, parents and advocates wheeled their handicapped children before Congress and political willpower wilted on the vine and the result was the Education For All Handicapped Children Act, which mandated “least restrictive environment” or mainstreaming of handicapped children.

Twenty five years later, my daughter is sitting in a second grade class not receiving any instruction while the teacher has to deal with a SPED student pooping in his diaper.

Between the SPED student, the ESOL student, and the future felon continuously disrupts class, the students with average and high ability students actual instruction time is probably measured in Minutes per day. Just assign everything as homework and maybe the parents can catch them up…

Ron F.

April 6th, 2012
10:03 am

Lee: you bring that up often, but I find it hard to believe. The regular ed. teacher is not responsible for that level of service to the child, and if she is having to do it, somebody’s got a lawsuit to file. That child, by law, should have an attending person. If he/she doesn’t, then you might want to be the one to point that out to the higher ups. I would never, and would sound the alarm if I was asked to do it as the regular ed. teacher.

Struthers

April 6th, 2012
10:06 am

Common sense ought to have a role in all these decisions, but I guess that is too much to ask. I went to school in the 50’s and we had to mainstream everyone (cause there were no special ed classes). The slower students simply were put in the back of the class, or made to do sums on a blackboard all day, and sort of “kept out of the Hair” of the rest of the class so the teacher could teach. I think it makes sense to get them out of regular classes, and into classes where they can get more attention.

Warrior Woman

April 6th, 2012
10:24 am

If you think gifted and talented students aren’t discriminated against, you are clueless. I’ve seen school after school cut gifted programs to fund SPED and ELL/ESOL courses. The ones most harmed by mainstreaming are the above average (but less than gifted) learners. Their classes are continually disrupted by a variety of bad behaviors and behavior disorders, which the teacher is powerless to control because of “least restrictive environment” and IDEA.

The best way to serve ALL students is ability grouping. Unfortunately, political correctness makes ability grouping unpopular, so we ignore bright students in favor of “inclusiveness.”

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
10:25 am

Tim Callahan, spokesman for the Professional Association of Georgia Educators, said he’ll wait to see the results of the Justice Department investigation. “But at first glance, it appears that our antiquated funding formula, neglected by a bi-partisan succession of governors and legislatures, may be at the root of this particular matter,” Callahan said.

Of course, when it comes to funding what does Callahan have to say about the ADMINISTRATIVE BLOAT that harpoons most, if not ALL, school public school budgets in Georgia?

Perhaps Callahan is silent on that because those who make up the “bloat” class are dues paying members of PAGE who help pay HIS salary?

Lee

April 6th, 2012
10:27 am

@Ron, I bring it up often because it actually happened. The teacher didn’t have to change the diaper, but she did have to a) contact the office to get someone to tell Special Ed teacher to come get him or b) get someone to listen out for her class while she walked him down to the Spec Ed class. Figure this happened at least once or twice per day and the class easily lost 45 min – 1 hr of instruction while the teacher dealt with this mess (pun intended).

I have a great deal of empathy for parents of special needs children, but I also contend that the rights of your child shouldn’t be to the detriment of everyone else in the classroom.

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
10:32 am

If you think gifted and talented students aren’t discriminated against, you are clueless.

TOTALLY agree Warrior Woman; when administration KNOWS a child is going to “exceed” on the CRCT on the FIRST day they walk into class, just how much attention do you think that child gets from administration?

If you said “zero” (or you were being kind and said “MINIMAL” pass go and collect your $200)

Joe Blogg

April 6th, 2012
10:47 am

Lets put aside the misplaced notion that students with developmental disabilities are few.

Developmental disabilities are common. 1 in 6 children aged 3-17 have a developmental disability. ADHD is most common. 1 in 13 children have a learning disability. (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/05/19/peds.2010-2989.abstract)

By some measures these 13% of students receive 21% of education funding.
(http://www.edexcellencemedia.net/publications/2011/20110525_ShiftingTrendsinSpecialEducation/ShiftingTrendsinSpecialEducation.pdf)

To illustrated this in dollars and cents, in 2008 the national average spending on primary and secondary education was around $10K/pupil. (http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66). When the 13% special ed student receive 21% of funding, this means special ed is $16K per pupil and regular ed $9K. I.e. we spend 78¢ more on the dollar to educate special needs students.

Across the nation, states identify from 9-18% of their populations as qualifying for special education services. Georgia ranks 47th. Identification and provision of services for students with special needs is inconsistent and varies greatly from state to state. Variability in how states report data make it difficult to make comparisons between how states provide and fund services.

It would be much more useful to have a conversation about how we begin to move from a repair model to a preventative model of identifying and providing services for students with special needs. When we delay identifying and providing services until there is a significant problem, then our ability to affect positive outcomes is diminished. In this country, the provision of services and expenditures on special needs is lowest in the earliest grades and rises steadily a pupils progress through the primary grades and then increases significantly throughout secondary schooling.

Finland is an example of the preventative model. -Where identification and special needs services are highest at the early childhood and primary grades and declines as pupils progress through their primary education, then increasing moderately throughout secondary schooling. In Finland over half of all students receive special needs services before completing their primary education. I.e. special education isn’t special when the majority of students benefit from receiving it at one point in time or another.

Digger

April 6th, 2012
10:49 am

Survival of the fittest? Nah, let’s do survival of the un-fittest first. Turning nature’s laws upside down won’t have any repercussions down the road.

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
10:52 am

Mountain Man: In most cases, all the special ed. kids get is extra time for tests or a copy of notes (which most of us have on the computer anyway).

@Ron F. with the caveat that I may not categorically agree with any solutions proposed by Mountain Man, I must say he brings up FAIR and LEGITIMATE questions.

If you have a student from a behavior disorder class being “mainstreamed” without any assistance, (let’s not pretend this doesn’t happen-the para can’t go to 5-7 classes at once) then we are being LESS THAN HONEST to say that child doesn’t take up time and energy that the regular ed teacher would have for the other students.

What happens for example, when the child’s behavior becomes a threat to the SAFETY of other students, and the special ed teacher trained in restraint techniques is nowhere to be found?

“Um, excuse me boys and girls, while I’m being cursed at, spat upon, and PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED, please practice bubbling in “C” on your answer sheets. I’ve been assured administration will be back from lunch in no less than 20 minutes.”

Don’t think this type of scenario is THAT uncommon.

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
11:04 am

@Beverly Fraud: While it’s true that Tim Callahan’s PAGE has resisted many education reforms which would place school choice more in the hands of parents—his group is NOT funding the Democrat Party (or any other) to block needed reforms.

Rent “Waiting for Superman” to see how the other (union) side pulls that off.

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
11:13 am

My main issue with the movie @Jane W.

Are we “Waiting for Superman”?

Then REMOVE THE KRYPTONITE from the classroom.

-Remove the chronically and severely disruptive who HIJACK the sanctity of the classroom learning environment.

-Remove the ADMINISTRATIVE RETALIATION which HIJACKS teachers’ attempt to advocate for better teaching/learning conditions

Then LET TEACHERS TEACH!

Why doesn’t the “Waiting for Superman” crowd address THOSE issues?

Mrnumbersman

April 6th, 2012
11:15 am

I would agree to some extent that Students with Disabilities (SWD) are discriminated against, much of the blame, but not all, lies with the parents. I understand where a great many of the parents of SWD come from. But they must take the time to learn about their child’s disability and advocate for the child. They need to be active in the IEP meetings and make their wishes known. Sometimes, the larger classroom is not the best place for a child if reading is a major issue. Having the ability to teach the child in a smaller setting so they can learn how to read is a good thing. Then, having them in the regular classroom for other subjects might be the best program. But, it is about what’s best for the child and parents need to be involved.

It also takes strong leadership on the part of the school. A number of teachers still hold SWD in disdain. They feel like they will have to water down the curriculum and other non-sense. Teachers often do not understand the difference between accommodations and modifications. Accommodations are ways to help the student reach the goals set forth. This could include extended time, larger print, shorter assignments, etc. But at the end the child should show the same mastery as the other students. Modifications are a changing of the goal. Many teachers just go straight to this without considering its impact on learning. Many IEPs are written with this in mind rather than coming up with ways to help the child reach the goals and expectations of every other child.

A few years ago a regulation came forth, the 90/80 rule, that stated 90% of SWD must spend at least 80% of their instructional day in the regular education classroom. I believe this rule is still in effect. This rule was implemented because too many SWD were placed in self-contained classes and not exposed to the full curriculum. A mandate had to be passed on what should have been common sense. I don’t like the rule but too many kids were being cheated out of an education.

The 2nd rule that has impacted special education was the “Highly Qualified” rule regarding teachers. It stated basically if you were going to be the teacher of record of a particular subject then you should be qualified to teach that subject. Too many special education teachers did not have a content major at the secondary level but were supposed to teach a content area. This made for a difficult task because many teachers were asked to teach subjects like biology or English and they only had a rudimentary knowledge of the subject. Getting the kids to the level they needed to be was a most difficult task and was often met with failure. Again, another federal rule that had to be passed because we did not use a dose of common sense.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 6th, 2012
11:40 am

@Beverly “What happens for example, when the child’s behavior becomes a threat to the SAFETY of other students, and the special ed teacher trained in restraint techniques is nowhere to be found?”

Been there, done that. I had a behavior disordered child in my regular Ed classroom who was on an IEP. The IEP said that every time she had a “meltdown” I was to remove the other children from the classroom and call for the “restraint team”. I was not to approach the child or engage with her in any way.

So about three times a week, this child would “melt down” due to anything from not having her homework done when asked, to having her pencil point break. She would start screaming, cursing, tearing up materials, and throwing things around the room. The other students and I would quickly exit the room and wait in the hall until a member of the “restraint team” could be called and respond. I would stand in the doorway, in hopes that I could at least monitor her, even if I could not approach her.

The “restraint team” included the principal, the librarian, the speech teacher, and the counselor. So not only did my students miss a great deal of educational time, but the members of the “team” often also had to stop teaching or working with students to respond. This one child negatively affected the learning of students throughout the school. Not only that, but she managed to destroy a lot of classroom supplies as she tore them up or threw them around while left to her own devices in the room.

I often wondered who would be at fault if she were to injure herself or another child while throwing her tantrums. What if she kicked a window and broke the glass while alone in the room, or what if she hit another child with a chair before I could get them all safely out of the classroom? Where were the advocates for all the OTHER students in my room affected by her behavior?

MB

April 6th, 2012
11:55 am

Well, the problem is surely not that special education (NOT including gifted) is underfunded. Look at this budget document from Fulton County: http://goo.gl/6csOS The feds paid for 25% of what they mandated for SpEd services. Since the state only paid 14%, that left the taxpayers of Fulton County to cover 61%. According to this document (on the FCSS website), the average cost per pupil for SpEd was $30,323 in 2010 and $18,624 of that was local funding.

At the first State Education Finance Study Commission meeting in June, 2011, the superintendent of Forsyth County Schools reported that the federal government paid an appalling low percentage (less than 10 and I believe around 5) of the programs they mandated.

What did that mean? That the sizes of regular (AND gifted) classes were raised, since the Georgia legislature waived the class size restrictions on all but federally-mandated programs (i.e., SpEd). Gifted services are funded ONLY at the state and local levels; the federal government does not provide gifted funding, period.

Other first-world countries address this by not pretending they can educate everyone at the same level. In Germany, for example, special education students are only in school through the eighth grade, after which they are placed in training programs. Other students are allowed to move into apprenticeships after tenth grade, learning trade skills, rather than making others as well as themselves, miserable with literary criticism papers and logarithms.

MB

April 6th, 2012
12:00 pm

For comparison, the average cost to educate an non-SpEd, non-ESOL student in FCSS in 2010 was $8704: http://goo.gl/daTbH

MB

April 6th, 2012
12:27 pm

Oh, and our General Assembly just voted to insure that we will be adding more high-need special ed students to school rosters with the “fetal pain” bill. Can we pass a resolution that every legislator who voted for that bill must have a child born under those conditions placed under his/her care for the child’s life? (And then another child of similar circumstances if that one does not survive?) And how about requiring that the legislator – oh, let’s add the lobbyists advocating for the bill to be equitable – to financially support the child as well. NO government subsidies for health care, education, etc.?

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
12:36 pm

@BeverlyFraud: The same Democrat Party whose presidential candidate is ALWAYS endorsed and funded by the National Education Association—using the extra $130+ yearly squeezed out of each GAE/NEA member—is foremost in insisting on the rights of disruptive students to remain in the classroom.

It seems there’s always a racial angle to be found and exploited in blocking needed reforms.

And if the film “Waiting for Superman” overlooks your pet issue … it does parents a great service by otherwise blowing the whistle on the status quo in public education.

I'm a teacher

April 6th, 2012
12:59 pm

There have been some comments here that regular ed teachers don’t want SPED students in their classes – that is not true. We don’t want students who are not able to learn in our classes – or if they have a disability that allows them to learn at the level I teach with some modification – explain to me how to modify. Most IEPs that I see for my inclusion students (these are not students in a collaborative setting where there is a special ed teacher in with me) have statements like “modify test” without letting me know how to modify the test for that child – a modification for a vision impaired child is different from one for a child who has processing issues is different from a child with ADD/ADHD is different from one for a child who has behavior disorders and triggers on stress. In the collaborative setting – there are weeks at a time when the collaborative teacher is barely in the classroom because they are doing the IEPs (which are pages and pages long, and the computer programs to do them change every other year and everything has to be re-entered, etc.)
Also by the time they get to High School there are significantly more SPED students in the system

Big Brother

April 6th, 2012
1:01 pm

Ah yes, DOJ. Fast & Furious, New Black Panthers, Lawsuits against Voter ID, run by the man who petitioned for the pardons of terrorist under the Clinton administration. Very helpful of course.

Bernie

April 6th, 2012
1:13 pm

The care of our Old and special needs citizens is another area that America’s people and its government has been shamefully and woefully inadeuqate in addressing their needs in a more humane fashion. Despite all of the Bravdo of how great we are as a nation, all one has to do is to consider how these two groups are treated and cared for and you will see that our evolution has not evolved that much.

Rick in ATL

April 6th, 2012
1:33 pm

When we found out our 2nd grade autistic son was disrupting his mainstream class at SPARK, we put a stop to it–we pulled him out. We felt we owed it to the other kids and the teacher, who was forced to deal with our son on her own because the parapro assigned to our boy considered mainstreaming time to be his “break time.” But we didn’t learn about it until long after it started happening.

There are so many things wrong with how APS and other schools handle this troublesome issue that I could literally write a book about it. But yes, parents do fight to mainstream their special-needs kids–often, as in our case, it has ZERO to do with academics and everything to do with socialization.

(And sometimes it is just a way to get your kid out of the understaffed, depressing SPED classroom where (in SPARK’s case) the SPED teacher had more IEP duties to perform each day than were mathematically possible for any one person to perform).

In an age of too-high student/teacher ratios, it is positively criminal to push SPED kids into a classroom and tell the beleaguered mainstream teacher: “here, you deal with this. You don’t get any additional resources–just deal with it.” (That happens frequently, even at the so-called “good” schools like SPARK).

SPED officials do this to avoid being harassed and sued by parents. They just capitulate and put the kid into the mainstream classroom. Principals pretend not to notice, and woe unto any teacher who dares complain to the principal about the additional hardship. The whole thing is an expensive and destructive farce, and ultimately an abdication of responsibility by ALL parties involved, including–in many cases–the parents of the SPED children.

We felt as parents that our child did not have the right to consume a hugely disproportionate share of the teacher’s valuable time and energy. That to continue doing so would have been a disservice to the other children in that class. But if we hadn’t acted honorably, our son would still be there, still doing the same stuff.

Mainstreaming is important–critically important–especially for autistic kids. But it must be engineered in a way that is fair to non-SPED kids. It is a difficult and complicated calculus, and it is beyond the meager abilities of the bureaucrats we have encountered on SPED payrolls.

Dr. Craig Spinks/ Georgians for Educational Excellence

April 6th, 2012
2:17 pm

Rick in ATL,

Spoken like a caring, socially responsible parent.

We need more like you.

Rick in ATL

April 6th, 2012
2:39 pm

Thank you, Dr. Spinks, but this story does not have a happy ending. After years of trying to get APS to do the minimum required, we sued the district, and now our son is in a private school at taxpayer expense. So in the end, we DID end up consuming a disproportionate share of the a key educational resource–money– and no one is unhappier about that than we are. We would much rather our son had remained at SPARK and received the services he needed–and what we are talking about is not extraordinary. Not at all. In fact, you’d be depressed, but probably not surprised, to hear just how little APS would have had to do to avoid the expense of our lawsuit and the subsequent settlement.

But when your SPED program includes a large percentage of employees who are openly antagonistic toward parents not very good at their jobs, you’re gonna get sued.

APS’s strategy–if you want to call it that–was to BS parents as much as possible and pray to dear god above that parents weren’t shrewd enough to ferret out the truth. That is not exactly a business model you can count on.

Even though our son ultimately got the kind of special-education services he needed at the district’s expense, there is no earthly reason SPARK and APS could not have done what the law and common sense required and avoided the huge cost they–and by “they” I of course mean we, the taxpayers–ultimately bore by NOT doing it.

Erroll Davis has made moves to improve SPED at APS, which was utterly abandoned by Bev Hall during her disastrous reign (we were told by our BOE rep that that was because the performance of the Program for Exceptional Children did not impact Hall’s bonus, an entirely plausible and astonishingly honest explanation), but ultimately, any spec-ed program is only as good as the people involved–the people ARE the program–and at APS, you’re talking about replacing a LOT of people before things can turn around.

bu2

April 6th, 2012
2:49 pm

I’m disturbed by the political nature of this inquiry. It sounds like an effort to force Georgia to use the politcally correct mainstreaming model.

For some students it works. For others it doesn’t. As for schools, some school districts really don’t care. In the ones that do, it still varies dramatically school by school.

When our child was entering kindergarten, our public school did not want to do anything special because we didn’t fit into any of the categories they had funding for even though there were several diagnosed issues and a history. We would have been forced to put her in a regular classroom for 6 weeks until she had failed in that setting. It would have been a waste of time for her and damaging to her self-esteem to fail in that setting. We knew it would have been disruptive to the rest of the class. And we would have been getting the dreaded calls from the school several times a week.

I see a lot of bashing of special needs parents. But until you have lived it you have NO clue. If you’ve ever watched SuperNanny, those kids are EASY. There are a lot of smug parents who don’t want special needs kids around theirs and pressure principals to ignore their needs. I remember one Mother pulling her child away from our daughter in the hallway of our local public school and saying in a horrified voice, “She’s going here?” We were actually dropping off our other child, so she had nothing to be worried about. But she had the socially awkward child who our daughter had comforted on several occassions when they were in the same pre-school class. Her daughter remembered the kindness, but her Mother was teaching something different.

bu2

April 6th, 2012
2:52 pm

We were also discouraged by one of the office staff from getting our child in any sort of special needs program. “You don’t want to get your child labeled.” We got the impression this very good public school just didn’t want to deal with special needs kids.

Ron F.

April 6th, 2012
3:01 pm

“The same Democrat Party whose presidential candidate is ALWAYS endorsed and funded by the National Education Association—using the extra $130+ yearly squeezed out of each GAE/NEA member—is foremost in insisting on the rights of disruptive students to remain in the classroom.”

Prove that. Quote the legislation that says disruptive students must remain in the room.

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
3:25 pm

@Ron F at GAE HQ: This will hardly be news to Ron F, of course. But other blog readers are invited to scan the spectrum of liberal and far-left causes their GAE/NEA dues dollars end up at: http://goo.gl/bNdPt

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
3:40 pm

@Ron F: And here’s the National Education Association … on its own website … advocating “mainstreaming in the least restrictive environment” SpecEd students: http://www.nea.org/specialed

Larry Major

April 6th, 2012
3:43 pm

The complaint is without merit.

The Southern Poverty Law Center claims that the funding multiplier for SPED Cat V (which is higher than Cat I and Cat VI, but lower than Cat II-IV) violates Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.

Complainant’s claim is based on the notion that a school system could get more or less state funding depending on the physical location where SPED students receive their education and that the current funding formula favors grouping SPED students in an exclusive, instead of inclusive, environment.

Both the ADA and Rehabilitation Act specify legal requirements for treatment of, and services provided to, individuals; neither requires funding from any government agency in any absolute or relative amount. Therefore, even if all of the Complainant’s assertions are accurate (which they are not) there is no violation of law.

Summary Judgment for the Defendant and Jadine Johnson is ordered to pay my next bar tab.

Bernie

April 6th, 2012
4:37 pm

When you think about it, the State of Georgia is a lot like a special needs student. Slow in comprehension, growth and maturity. Always screaming for attention, immature decison making, A serious case of ADD and OCS, especially when it comes to women’s healthcare. does not play well with others. selfish and runs with scissors. need I say any more?

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
4:38 pm

Rick in ATL,

Spoken like a caring, socially responsible parent.

We need more like you.

I second that remark Dr. Spinks.

Now if there was a way to put APS bureaucrats and BOE members (many, not all) in the MOST restrictive environment, (’self contained’ on a slow boat to China, perhaps?) no doubt teachers AND students would benefit.

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
5:02 pm

@Ron F: Is it already quitting time over at GAE/NEA union headquarters? How about your spin on the union’s two-faced response to the Special Ed inclusion controversy?

Additional reading: http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
5:26 pm

Off topic…but I thought this article was interesting given the many references to “Waiting for Superman”.

http://www.philly.com/philly/education/20120406_FINAL_FRONTIER__Charter_school_stiffs_employees__kids.html?viewAll=y

Superman dropped in for visit, started a brand spanking new charter school, and then skipped town. I guess the business model wasn’t exactly working out like he had planned.

I’m sure somehow, someway, NEA is to blame for the mess.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 6th, 2012
5:26 pm

@Jane W:

Here is the full statement from the NEA website your posted.

“The National Education Association supports a free, appropriate public education for all students with disabilities in a least restrictive environment, which is determined by maximum teacher and parent/guardian involvement. There must also be a full continuum of placement options, services, and delivery models available to students with disabilities.

Over the past 10 years, the number of U.S. students enrolled in special education programs has risen 30 percent. Three out of every four students with disabilities spend part or all of their school day in a general education classroom. In turn, nearly every general education classroom across the country includes students with disabilities. Each school and school district must determine the best way to conduct programs and figure out how to pay for them.

As the nation’s parents, citizens, educators and elected officials tackle the problems facing special education, NEA urges everyone to acknowledge our successes. Local public schools are now educating millions of disabled children, and a growing number of them are graduating from high school. Only three decades ago, these same children would have been isolated in separate institutions or simply kept at home, with little or no chance of ever becoming independent, productive, taxpaying citizens. ”

I am not sure quite HOW that translates to “insisting on the rights of disruptive students to remain in the classroom.”

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
5:37 pm

@mountain man….I’m not going to get into a sparing debate with you. The accommodations I’m required to offer my sped students are extended time, paraphrase directions, preferential seating, materials broken down into manageable parts, etc. Basic stuff that I automatically apply to any struggling student…sped or regular ed.

I’m too tired to address the “increased classroom size crowd”. All I can say is there is a definite tipping point in terms of class size. For me, the tipping point is 28-30. I’ve come to realize that trying to point out the destructive nature of large class sizes, for students and teachers, will only fall on deaf ears. Folks just don’t want to spend money on smaller class sizes.

Jane W.

April 6th, 2012
5:40 pm

@teacher&mom: No, the NEA wouldn’t be to blame there—but how about in the HUNDREDS of urban schools where kids are DAILY cheated out of a fair chance in life because bad teachers are protected by union work rules?

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
5:41 pm

“In an age of too-high student/teacher ratios, it is positively criminal to push SPED kids into a classroom and tell the beleaguered mainstream teacher: “here, you deal with this. You don’t get any additional resources–just deal with it.” (That happens frequently, even at the so-called “good” schools like SPARK).”

Wise words.

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
5:56 pm

@Lee:

When my middle child was in first grade, he had a Down’s Syndrome student in his class who needed his diaper changed. He could be disruptive but for the most part, everything was fine. My child is graduating this year and he remembers having a wonderful first grade year.

The same child had 2 Asperger’s students in his 2nd grade class.

My oldest attended kindergarten with a moderately physically handicapped student. By the end of the year they were best friends. They are in their 20’s and they still stay in contact.

Their learning was never impeded by the inclusion of special education students.

I firmly believe they did learn a little compassion, patience, and respect for those who are “different”. Granted those qualities will never show up on a standardized test, but I for one am grateful they had the opportunity to develop those skills at an early age.

teacher&mom

April 6th, 2012
6:07 pm

@Jane W:

I’m sorry. I don’t buy that argument. It is naive and ill-informed to believe that eliminating the teacher’s union will improve urban education.

If that were the case, APS would be the top urban district in the nation. It isn’t.

Who protected Beverly Hall until the last possible moment? The union?

btw: Who protected the whistle-blowers? One has to wonder if GA had a teacher’s union would the cheating scandal have been blown apart sooner rather than later. I’d like to believe that if those teachers had been offered a bit of protection, their testimony would have been made public.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 6th, 2012
6:16 pm

@teacher and mom

Exactly. If teacher unions were truly responsible for all the educational woes for which they are constantly blamed, then logically, right to work states would be offering a much better education for their students.

They aren’t. In fact non-union states are often some of the lowest performers.

How do the anti-union folks explain that?

The problems in education are complex. Blaming “unions” and “bad teachers” is just a way to avoid having to deal with the real underlying issues which are much more complicated and difficult to address.

Beverly Fraud

April 6th, 2012
6:17 pm

“btw: Who protected the whistle-blowers? One has to wonder if GA had a teacher’s union would the cheating scandal have been blown apart sooner rather than later.”

VERY good point. Have ANY of the “anti-union” types proposed ANY legislation that would protect teachers from administrative RETALIATION?

Jane W, the REAL crime isn’t the bad teachers who are protected, (though let’s be real, it does happen) It’s the GOOD teachers who leave due to administrative RETALIATION.

Jane W

April 6th, 2012
7:08 pm

@GAE/NEA in your various online guises (Ron F. etc.): If teachers’ unions are so beloved, why not support Right-to-Work laws in all states?

And why squander GAE/NEA dues money fighting to keep Wisconsin and Ohio teachers from being allowed to quit the local NEA affiliate? What your union money is doing in those states is unconscionable.

Once again: Parents—rent the film WAITING FOR SUPERMAN to understand what’s at stake in education if unions are allowed to continue calling the shots in American education.

irisheyes

April 6th, 2012
7:11 pm

Jane W is a troll who repeats the only line that she’s heard on Fox News. She has no ideas or solutions to any of the problems facing education, and anytime she’s faced with a teacher who intelligently articulates both the concerns of teachers and the possible solutions, she can only call them paid union hags. It gets old after awhile.

BTW, Jane, as I’ve stated many times before (though you seem to keep forgetting), I’m NOT a member of GAE. I am a member of PAGE, but the only things they’ve sent me are their monthly magazines. Sadly, there were no kickback checks buried in the pages.

CobbMom

April 6th, 2012
7:27 pm

I see that this blog is actively patrolled by the teachers unions to enforce their views and to protect dues revenues. I wonder how many of those commenting are different aliases of the same persons.

But I’ll say this—the problems with our public school systems are long-standing and never seem to get better. And yes, I’ve watched the movie Waiting for Superman and believe it to accurately represent the situation in cities across the nation. And I’m sure President and Mrs. Obama do too—otherwise, why do they keep their daughters out of the public school system, as did the Clintons? As for solutions, I favor charter schools and much more that’s innovative. When education decisions are in the hands of parents, real solutions will eventually result.

CobbMom

April 6th, 2012
7:33 pm

I see that this blog is actively patrolled by the teachers unions to enforce their views and to protect dues revenues. I wonder how many of those commenting are different aliases of the same persons.

But I’ll say this—the problems with our public school systems are long-standing and never seem to get better. And yes, I’ve watched the movie Waiting for Superman and believe it to accurately represent the situation in cities across the nation. And I’m sure President and Mrs. Obama do too—otherwise, why do they keep their daughters out of the public school system, as did the Clintons? As for solutions, I favor charter schools and much more that’s innovative. When education decisions are in the hands of parents, real solutions will eventually result.

d

April 6th, 2012
8:05 pm

I was wondering how long it would take to turn this topic from a serious discussion to bash GAE/NEA.

As far as what this thread is supposed to be about, I have one class that has some mainstreamed students. Some of them are just fine being there, but some really need even more support than the coteaching model allows for…. And for those that are fine with the additional support, they lose out because the special education teacher has to focus so much of her time on two of her five students.

let's be real

April 6th, 2012
10:15 pm

Gifted children get preferential treatment? What a joke. Whether they should is another story. Should we allocate a school’s limited (fiscal) resources to the children who can potentially score a perfect 2400 on the SAT, or should those precious funds be allocated to children for whom the most that they could expect to get on the SAT is drool?

Chaos

April 7th, 2012
8:22 am

With classrooms splitting at the seams, requirements of differentiated instructional techniques, and abilities ranging from severely SPED to gifted in the SAME classroom, you get less than mediocre results…and it isn’t the fault of the teacher.

In the name of equality, we have sacrificed education in this country. While every student has worth and inherent value, every student does NOT have the same cognitive or learning ability.

In the name of self-esteem and self-worth, we have absolutely killed our educational system. We socially promote kids, provide “outs” for kids that can’t perform, and tell every one of them that they can grow up to be the CEO of some major corporation, a rocket scientist, or an astrophysicist.

We are liars. Most can’t. We lie to their parents. We lie to society. And most of all, we lie to the students. They aren’t o.k. And many aren’t going to make it.

But if it makes you feel better to tell them that everything is fine, go right ahead.

It’s called ROI…return on investment. And the kids that are being sacrificed are in the middle of the bell-shaped curve.

Wendy

April 7th, 2012
8:45 am

As I quietly read and listen to everyone’s comments my first thought is what the heck is going on here? The needs of ALL students are equally important including the ones that so many of you are quick to warehouse in self-contained classes that exist in the darkest nether regions of the schools. Do you think that placement is fair to those kids? Do you think learning is going on in there? The real elephant in the room is that most teachers are under educated and have no IDEA (pun intended) how to educate students with special needs. These kids are just as capable of learning as the average student they just do not have educators who know how to work with them. So instead of throwing these kids away because they cost $.75 cents more per dollar to educate, let’s teach the teachers how to educate them. This is a topic that transcends money, so stop putting a price tag on children!
I have worked in the school system for many years both as a gen ed classroom teacher, an ESOL teacher, and a guidance counselor and I am telling you that 99% of the classroom disruptions are not caused by students who fall on either side of center. 99% of classroom disruptions are caused by kids who have been raising themselves because for whatever reason the parents are simply not there. This whole idea of special needs students being the kryptonite in schools is not only ridiculous but dangerous. Stop villainizing kids and start holding parents accountable. Make sure all teachers are trained to work with special needs students, and that administrators follow the law. I would recommend everyone here read the IDEA 2004 Act so they have some knowledge base about what rights disabled students have. If you do not like the law then this conversation should be about the legislative process not banning students with differing learning abilities from their schools and classrooms. Least restrictive environment does not equal self-contained classroom, not because I say it but because the law says it!

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
9:30 am

“We are liars.”

Now that is a CORE truth. “We the people” have lied to OURSELVES. And when we can no longer deny it, we play the game called “blame the teacher.”

If we spent a TENTH of the time EMPOWERING children by allowing teachers to hold THEM accountable for their learning, we would get exponentially greater results than our current “blame the teacher” game we play.

But you, the educrat can’t get PAID to hold the child accountable, can you? Yet you CAN get PAID to “fix the teacher” can’t you?

Unfunded pension

April 7th, 2012
10:02 am

More money for special ed means less for the other kids. What is the balance we are willing to pay for? How about 1.5 times for the special ed kids… 2x or3x? Is there any limit?

skipper

April 7th, 2012
10:23 am

The elephant in the room is the definition of special needs students. Some are slightly behind and need a little extra attention. Others are truly disruptive, and still a few others are truly unable to learn in such an environment. Todays folks have gotten confused over what the definiton of disabled is…..although advances have been made, a school system should not go broke over a person who absolutely is unable to even semi-function in a particular environment. I’m all for giving everyone a chance, and this may sound hard, but teachers these days would get blamed if they could not teach a stump fractions!

mountain man

April 7th, 2012
10:34 am

“In the name of equality, we have sacrificed education in this country. While every student has worth and inherent value, every student does NOT have the same cognitive or learning ability.

In the name of self-esteem and self-worth, we have absolutely killed our educational system. We socially promote kids, provide “outs” for kids that can’t perform, and tell every one of them that they can grow up to be the CEO of some major corporation, a rocket scientist, or an astrophysicist”

AMEN, Chaos!

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
10:58 am

Who protected Beverly Hall until the last possible moment? The union?

Exactly. Had NOTHING to do with ‘the union” but get on nationwide blogs and the ignorant and uninformed will reflexively blame “the union” for the cheating scandal. The same ones who want a “bidness” solution don’t even realize who was one of Hall’s MAIN defenders.

That would be the Chamber of Commerce, (along with Board Chairman Lashandra Butler-Burks, with a pinch of Kasim Reed and SACS thrown in)

Just how PATHETIC in retrospect do Andy Young, Shirley Franklin and John Rice look now?

Pathetic enough that they don’t DARE show their face in the AJC again?

Again, as stated above, WE ARE LIARS.

Chaos

April 7th, 2012
11:02 am

@Beverly and Mountain Man

Thanks. And Bev…notice that I used some ALL CAPS. It is useful at times

I'm a teacher

April 7th, 2012
11:32 am

If we spent a TENTH of the time EMPOWERING children by allowing teachers to hold THEM accountable for their learning, we would get exponentially greater results than our current “blame the teacher” game we play.

AMEN

Teacher + student + parent = quality education
the teacher is only 1/3 of the equation.

Jane W.

April 7th, 2012
11:34 am

@RonF=irisheyes=teacher&mom: Those vociferous in demanding limits to parental choice always amaze me. Except, of course, for the union shills among them.

Unlike government monopoly schools—charter schools can only succeed by demonstrating to parents that they offer a superior product. Why would anyone oppose that?

Well, there are the teacher unions of course. Rent the excellent film “Waiting for Superman” to see why Steve Jobs famously thought no real reform was possible in education (biography p.544) until the teacher unions (National Education Association, etc.) are pushed aside. Teacher union stand-ins such as GAE/CCAE can be counted on to trumpet the union line. As can the always pro-Democrat AJC.

The solution to failing schools is competition. The enemies of education solutions are therefore the defenders of the status quo.

I'm a teacher

April 7th, 2012
11:37 am

It also doesn’t help that Georgia only has one diploma track which is basically a college prep diploma – totally ignoring that many of our students (many SPED students included) are not going to college.

teacher&mom

April 7th, 2012
12:02 pm

@Jane W: Thanks for the chuckle. You are a silly girl…LOL

Signing off to enjoy the day with my family..hope everyone, including Jane, has a blessed Easter weekend.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 7th, 2012
12:20 pm

“The solution to failing schools is competition. ”

I am so tired of people touting “competition” as the fix for education. Really, it only shows how little these people understand what motivates teachers.

I didn’t get into teacher to “compete” with anyone. I got into it to TEACH children, and do what is best, not only for MY students but for ALL children. Get it? ALL children! The idea that I want to compete with my fellow educators and only work for the good of MY students (and screw the rest because I am in competition with them) is outrageously distasteful to me. Merit pay, school competition, teachers and schools pitted against each other for funding, pay and benefits only undermines what actually WORKS in education – teachers and schools cooperating and working together to benefit ALL students.

I constantly work with other teachers to develop better lessons. We share ideas, and materials and instructional strategies. We work cooperatively to design interactive white board lessons and assessments. We support each other and our students through cooperation, not competition! I may learn a new approach to content that really works for my students, and I gladly share it with others so it may benefit their students as well! They do the same! That cooperative culture works to the benefit of all our students. Competition threatens that and destroys the culture of mutual support found in those schools that do perform well.

I am not against Charter schools or alterative avenues of education per se, but I am against shifting funds from public schools to alternative that are run on the cheap, are designed to make a profit for their corporate owners, do not require certified instructors, do not have set curriculum standards, are not required to meet the same accountability measures as public schools, etc.

Over and over, studies that show that Charter and virtual schools are NO BETTER at educating students than public schools are ignored in favor of reformer sound bites.

Rather that actually dealing with the underlying issues in our educational system, so called reformers are pushing the idea that unions are evil, our public schools are flooded with lazy, idiotic teacher, and alternative education filled with cheap, replaceable robo-teachers will save the day.

Until so called reformers actually address the REAL problems in schools and our society as a whole, I cannot accept their platform as anything but a desire to dupe the public, destroy public education, permanently disenfranchise a large portion of our children and privatize education for their own profit.

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
1:13 pm

Jane W says:

The solution to failing schools is competition. The enemies of education solutions are therefore the defenders of the status quo.

@Jane W, I get that; the education monolith serves firstly to perpetuate ITSELF, secondly (thirdly?) to do what’s best for learning.

But…@Jane W. who BETTER represents the forces of “competition” in Atlanta than none other than the Metro Area Chamber of Commerce?

Who?

Yet who were among the CHIEF enablers of none other than Beverly Hall during THE largest cheating scandal in United States educational history?

Who, with their defense of Hall, no less than SUPPORTED the STATUS QUO, supported squashing ALL discussion of the “corporate culture” of administrative RETALIATION and LACK of administrative support for discipline, two pillars of the INSTITUTIONAL ROT that permeates APS?

Who? Yes GAE/PAGE were WEAK and TEPID in their criticism of APS, but unlike them, the Chamber (THE paragon of the virtues of “competition” in Atlanta) had the POWER to affect change, but instead chose to ENABLE Hall.

With THAT track record, how do we trust “bidness” to provide solutions, even if it’s CRYSTAL clear the education monolith is dysfunctional?

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
1:19 pm

I love teaching says…

“We work cooperatively to design interactive white board lessons and assessments.”

Just like the way Coke shared their secret formula with Pepsi, so together they could make the best soft drink?

Oops, scratch that.

Jane W.

April 7th, 2012
1:55 pm

@Ilove/Ihate=RonF: For those readers successfully confused by Ron F in his various online guises, charter schools ARE public schools.

Let me repeat that.charter schools ARE public schools.

They are overseen by local school boards but have more freedom to innovate, including the right (in union states) to hire non-union teachers and to fire those who don’t perform.

The blog’s union shills don’t like any of the above—hence their perpetual attempts to confuse readers.

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
2:03 pm

@Jane W

I’m certainly not a union shill. And I TOTALLY agree the education monolith needs to be SERIOUSLY challenged, if not outright DISMANTLED.

But when you look at how “bidness” actually SUPPORTED the education monolith, in one of its UGLIEST permutations in APS, how do you expect John Q. Public to blindly support “bidness” as “the answer”?

irisheyes

April 7th, 2012
2:24 pm

@Jane, I think my husband would be quite surprised that I’m a Ron F. But again, all you can spout is your nonsense about “unions bad” “competition good”. Again, if unions are so bad, shouldn’t Georgia be at the top of the education heap since the only thing “unions” here can do is lobby the Legislature and provide representation if a teacher is dismissed? What else, precisely, do you think the “unions” in this state do?

Beverly Fraud

April 7th, 2012
2:33 pm

What else, precisely, do you think the “unions” in this state do?

Well they do PONTIFICATE very well. And CAPITULATE.

So you can’t say they don’t do anything…

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 7th, 2012
2:36 pm

@Jane W “Ilove/Ihate=Ron F.”

Wrong…

…but by all means, don’t let the TRUTH keep you from spouting your vicious rhetoric.

Charter schools may be “public schools” in name, but their “freedom to innovate” means they do not need to follow the “rules” that burden traditional public schools – like accepting all students regardless of ability and need, or hiring certified teachers, etc.

If this “freedom to innovate” is so beneficial to Charter schools, then why not allow traditional public schools the same “freedoms”? Why do reformers demand accountability measures like standardized testing and VAM scores for teachers in traditional public schools, while suggesting Charter schools be allowed to opt out due to their “freedom to innovate”?

By the way, I worked in three different teacher union states before moving to GA (a right to work state). In none of these states was I required to join the union. Nor did any school have any difficultly hiring me as a non-union worker.

Jane W.

April 7th, 2012
2:40 pm

@BeverlyFraud: Allowing PARENTS to decide where to send their own kids makes more sense than the alternative.

And certainly more sense than allowing teachers’ union bosses and their bought politicians to decide how competition is to be narrowed—and education resources squandered.

The film “Waiting for Superman” isn’t your enemy, Beverly. You obviously see it as an incomplete indictment of a corrupt system. But it goes far in highlighting needed reforms which you are then free to add to. And I’m confident you will.

UGA Student

April 7th, 2012
4:31 pm

Perhaps I’m young and naive, but the way I see it, special ed students SHOULD be taken out of regular classrooms.

A regular class is designed for people going down a certain path in life: To college, a job, their own family, etc. A special ed student is not going to live that life, unfortunately.

Therefore, special ed students should have their own program to prepare them for the type of lifestyle they will be living: Likely with parents or in a care facility, and with a menial job that doesn’t require the mental cognition that a more common person would possess.

Brandy

April 7th, 2012
5:18 pm

@UGA Student, Many of the students I work with would be appalled at your statement, as would many adults I know. My cousin received Special Education services for a dyslexia (a learning disability) from 2nd grade through high school and is in law school right now. I know Autistic and/or Asperger’s Syndrome adults who are bigwigs in major Fortune 500 companies. I know of blind, deaf, and/or physically handicapped soldiers, doctors, lawyers, and teachers. My mother’s principal is learning disabled, but is still very successful. The are many successful actors, actresses, politicians, and public figures who stuttered or had other speech impairments or delays. Same with deaf/hard of hearing persons. Ever heard of Helen Keller? I highly doubt many people would view her as “unsuccessful”. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt? Yep, he was successful AND handicapped. Thomas Edison? He had significant hearing loss, but was still successful. Have you ever watched The Big Bang Theory? People like Sheldon Cooper really do exist–high functioning, successful Autistics or Asperger’s Syndromers.

Having a disability, be it physical, emotional, mental, or psychological, is not an impediment to living a full life. People with disabilities can get married, hold jobs (even good, six figure ones), go to college, and anything else those without disabilities are able to do. In fact, studies indicate that every single person, unless they have a low IQ, has some form of a learning disability; in other words, we all have strengths and weaknesses, things we struggle at and things we excel at. For example, you might be great at math, but a terrible singer. Or, maybe you excelled at reading, but struggled in mathematics. Have trouble remembering faces or find oral lectures hard to remember or unhelpful? Have difficulty reading a map or with spatial reasoning? Yep, those would be mild learning disabilities.

Not everyone who receives Special Education services has “mental cognition” deficits or issues. Some do, many (if not most) do not. Special Education encompasses deaf/hard of hearing, speech delays/deficits/impairments, learning disabilities, physical impairments (for example, being wheelchair bound), severe medical illness (sickle cell anemia, diabetes and cancer, for example), Autism and Asperger’s Syndrome, Traumatic Brain Injury, emotional-behavioral disturbance (including schizophrenia, severe clinical depression, bipolar/manic-depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, and more), AND developmental or mental delays (including Down’s Syndrome, Rhett’s Disease, et cetera). Special Education is far, far, far more than warehousing the “mentally retarded” and training them for menial labor in preparation for a life on the State’s dime.

My mother is a Special Educator who specializes in teaching emotional-behavioral disordered students. A large number of her students have exceptionally high IQs and outperform their peers academically when their emotional or behavioral needs are met and their emotional or behavioral issues are dealt with. They look to the outsider to be the “bad” kids or the “weird” kids, but once they learn to cope, fit in, find peers who are accepting, and make it outside of Special Education, they can be extremely successful. She has worked with teachers of the mentally impaired who have students who are exceptionally gifted in some way: artistically, physically (one student she worked with over a decade ago qualified for the Olympics, yeah, the regular Olympics, in Track & Field), musically, or at a particular type of task.

Since you are apparently a student at one of our state’s fine institutions of higher learning, how about you take a trip to the library to do a little research? You might learn something.

Remember: Your pretty, perfect, straight-A student, popular, thin, blond hair, blue eyed, upper middle class, God-fearing, Young Republican daughter could be driving home today and struck by a car, suffering a severe brain injury. She would likely require Special Education services. Would you want her to be treated as less than or as a burden? Or, would you want the school system to help her achieve to the best of her ability? What if she isn’t struck by a car, but instead catches meningitis as a toddler and looses her hearing? Or, what if she is born blind? What if she has Autism?

bu2

April 7th, 2012
5:19 pm

@UGA student
You don’t understand what special ed is. There is a full spectrum from the severely mentally challenged (which you appear to be referring to) to brilliant young people who have issues like ADHD. I wouldn’t be surprised if a significantly disproportionate amount of our CEOs and top executives are ADHD to some extent. I haven’t seen any stats, but the severely challenged are probably a small minority of the population we are talking about.

Jane W.

April 7th, 2012
6:03 pm

RonF@various aliases: Ron, we haven’t yet heard your response to http://goo.gl/bNdPt … or to the National Education Association calling for the “mainstreaming in the least restrictive environment” of Special Ed students: http://www.nea.org/specialed

Burroughston Broch

April 7th, 2012
6:21 pm

Our society spends too much money on special education. A small percentage of special education students will make a contribution to society, but the majority will not. Meanwhile, the education of special education students disrupts the education of the other students.

Extra money should be first focused on the gifted students because they make contributions to society all out of proportion to their numbers. The return on investment is much higher for gifted students.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 7th, 2012
6:59 pm

@Jane W

Would you PLEASE stop with the whole “aliases” thing. It is getting quite tedious and silly.

There is no problem with insisting upon a “least restrictive educational environment” for children. The problem arises when one tries to define “least restrictive”. What is “least restrictive” for one special needs student may actually be detrimental for another.

Some special needs students thrive in mainstreamed classrooms where they and the regular education students all benefit from their participation. However, is it really “least restrictive” in insist that a child with low cognitive abilities be mainstreamed into an environment where they are constantly frustrated, cannot master the material, suffer from low self -esteem as they come to realize they can’t keep up with peers, and take up far too much of the teacher’s time and energy. Is it really “least restrictive” for the remainder of the students who suffer as a result?

We need balance, and right now we don’t seem to have it because too many people are afraid of offending someone by suggesting some students may not actually be college material and would do better learning other skills that will ultimately serve them far more in life.

Jane W.

April 7th, 2012
7:43 pm

One superlative quality of tuition vouchers that escapes some ivy tower thinkers is that vouchers transfer education decisions away from elites—to the parents themselves.

Parents would listen to YOUR best argument as to why YOU have all the answers; and then those parents would decide which school seems best for their own child. In some cases parents might choose to rely on the advice of trusted community leaders. But either way—you would be free to argue your case to its fullest.

Why do you doubt your ability to compete for parents’ confidence? It’s obvious why union bosses recoil in horror at the thought of a free market. But why do some of YOU?

mountain man

April 7th, 2012
9:19 pm

Just remember that vouchers should be equal to the amount the School System will save when YOUR child leaves. Not the “average” amount of cost. That is highly skewed towards SPED students.

Archie@Arkham Asylum

April 7th, 2012
10:35 pm

When I taught Special Education in South Georgia, self-contained classes were most often housed in “trailer park city,” our term for the modular classrooms in the back of the school lot. We were often all too aware that that the “out of sight, out of mind” approach was being utilized. However, we did have some students that a self-contained classroom was for them, the least restrictive setting. There were other students that would have benefited from some time in a regular classroom. It depends on the individual student and the level of supports required for that student. A “one size fits all” approach has not, did not and will not ever work. We have come a long ways from the days when kids who had survived Polio were not allowed to enroll in regular high school because they couldn’t climb steps due to their use of wheelchairs or heavy braces. Mainstreaming may be the answer for some but not all Special Ed. students. Decisions for placement should take into account individual abilities as well as disabilities.

N. GA Teacher

April 7th, 2012
11:56 pm

I have taught inclusion classes on the high school level for many years. Generally, the SPED student’s unique disability was not the cause of poor academic or behavioral performance. My SPED kids usually have good work ethics and are very affable. The only trouble I have had with a few of these kids are the same problems I have from my non-SPED kids: they have such crappy home lives that they act out their frustrations in class. What teachers resent is that admin quite often lets them off the hook, as though having an IEP conveys immunity upon a kid. It does not. A much greater problem is one of proper and timely diagnosis of SPED. Problems need to be correctly identified and students rigorously examined every year or two. Some problems disappear by 6th grade, while others do not begin until then. Many IEP conditions are not physical or congenital in nature but are brought on by the pathological living conditions of poverty and abuse. Students who seem OK in first grade become mentally ill by fifth or sixth grade but are never tested. They become behavior terrors in middle school and high school but are never given the social worker or SPED help they need because nobody wanted to spend the money (and yes, psychiatrists and psychologists ARE expensive!) to test them after age 12. Other kids, whose SPED symptoms have disappeared, continue needlessly and expensively to receive services. Our systems need to be much more efficient at diagnosis, treatment, and followup to ensure that we assist those who need it AND spend money most efficiently.

Truth in Moderation

April 8th, 2012
12:57 am

Why doesn’t anyone ask WHY there is a growing population of SPED kids? Autism is now an EPIDEMIC! Look at Utah:

“A previous study of 25,000 Utah children in 2008 found the diagnosis rate to be 1 in 77. For the new rate, researchers examined a subset of about 2,000 children and found that one in 47 met the criteria for autism.

The impact of Utah’s autistic children will be felt in Utah’s schools, said Larry Shumway, the state superintendent of public instruction.

“They’ll be found in every classroom,” he said, noting that upcoming teachers need to have the skills to meet the wave.”
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53816934-78/autism-utah-rate-identified.html.csp

There is NO WAY this is just a genetic problem.
Also read:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/04/02?print
“Vampire DNA” Interview with Dr.Hanan Polansky
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41576890/02.06.12%20HHH%20Polansky%20Interview%20.mp3

Jack

April 8th, 2012
8:25 am

Gifted children need special attention; not held back because of children with special needs. (By special needs, I mean children that can’t read in the sixth grade.)

UGA Student

April 8th, 2012
10:15 am

@bu2, I think your response caught more of the gist of what I was talking about as opposed to Brandy.

When I typed that out, I was mostly referring to two groups of special ed-esque students:
1. The “severely mentally challenged” that are wheel-chair bound and can barely get a point across, because they obviously need special attention that my public school could only somewhat provide from what I saw.
and
2. The people with ADHD/Borderline Autism/Asperger’s, because all of those aforementioned that I went to high school with were essentially ALL disruptive to class time, obviously didn’t know how to properly do the tasks assigned, and quite frankly shouldn’t have been in school because there is no scenario where they won’t end up in their parents’ basement. (according to facebook, most either aren’t these days, or are at GPC)

Things like dyslexia, physical handicaps, deafness, blindness, etc, I personally don’t group those people into SPED people because 9 times out of 10, they can carry on a conversation and process the information given to them in a classroom or boardroom.

and Brandy, thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt that my wife would be beautiful enough to give me such a daughter, my dark-curly-haired genes certainly wouldn’t be able to pull that off on their own ;D

Brandy

April 8th, 2012
11:26 am

@UGA, You may not personally group them into Special Education, but they are and do receive specialized services. I do urge you to do some research into the number of successful adults with ADHD (Do you remember Ty Pennington from Extreme Home Makeover/Trading Spaces? He has ADHD.) and Autism Spectrum Disorders. Many, many are able to live full, active, and successful lives. Those you may have seen/encountered were most likely the most extreme (and, thus, obvious) examples. Poll your peers in your largest lecture class, it is highly likely that even at UGA up to 10% of your classmates may be diagnosed with ADD or ADHD–it is a very pervasive diagnosis, whether that means most of those have it or not. It is also likely that you have classes with persons on the Autism Spectrum. If your major is in the sciences, mathematics, or engineering, it is even more likely that you have a professor or two on the Spectrum.

@Jack, The real problem is gifted children receive no extra money from the state or Feds to provide gifted education services. Special Education students do. Why? Special Education is designed to bring students up to the level of their peers through accommodations/interventions/modifications. However, gifted students, by virtue of high/higher IQs are exceeding those same peers, so the Feds don’t see them as needing more money. Also, there are more Twice Exceptional students than regular gifted students–i.e. students who have high IQs/gifted talents AND a disability; but, until NCLB few of those students were allowed to access the regular or advanced curricula they were capable of doing and excelling at. Unfortunately, the problem slices both ways.

irisheyes

April 8th, 2012
12:21 pm

Maureen did a blog post ages ago about what the average cost was to educate a regular ed student and then what the average cost was to educate a special ed student. I want to say that it was close to 3x as much to educate a SPED student as a regular ed student. So, if you are asking for vouchers, you should expect to get only about $3000 if your student is a regular ed student who is not receiving any special services. Good luck finding a decent public school with only $3000. (My numbers may be off somewhat, but I think they’re pretty close.)

bu2

April 8th, 2012
2:36 pm

@UGA student
When you get out of school and if you get exposure to top executives, it will be obvious how many have ADD/ADHD to some extent, even if they were never diagnosed.

One ADHD executive gave a talk and spoke about how he had ADHD with ESP. Because he was not focused, he was able to see things in meetings that other more focused people missed.

And my experience with ADHD kids is that they tend to be really good negotiators. Maybe their impulsiveness won’t let them accept no for an answer. Its not all disadvantages.

teacher&mom

April 8th, 2012
4:52 pm

@Brandy: There is more FTE money for gifted students IF the teacher has a gifted endorsement. It is approximately an additional 3k/student. Many districts are encouraging their middle and high school teachers to enroll in a gifted endorsement program for this reason.

Sarah

April 8th, 2012
4:58 pm

Maureen, u guys are focusing on test cheating….you need to investigate the SPED program in APS.
that is where the real criminal activity is ocurring.

Brandy

April 8th, 2012
5:23 pm

@Teacher&Mom, I hadn’t heard that; at my school (I’m in East Cobb), at least, there is no additional funding other than that provided by the system–and nowhere near 3K extra. It is good to hear that some districts are able to treat gifted differently (Cobb may, perhaps just not at my school…).

Brandy

April 8th, 2012
5:28 pm

Oops, let me add that I’m going to look into it! There aren’t many gifted programs for my subject area (there should be), so I may just be woefully ignorant. Thanks for giving me a heads up, I should talk to the few gifted ed teachers I know!

Marietta Dink

April 8th, 2012
5:36 pm

Why am I paying to educate other people children in the first place? Because any parent that sends their kids, especially a handicapped kid, to U. S. public schools is a BAD and IRRESPONSIBLE PARENT.

You CANNOT get an education in a Georgia public school past elementary grade. Only one couple of my many friends with children leave their kids at public schools; friends of all races and creeds. And those that work two jobs to do so.

Don’t have kids if you can’t afford private school and don’t have extra funds put aside in case you have a disabled or gilfted child.

Remember 1 out of 88 kids have autism alone and a gifted child can’t stay in a public school (I’ve seen principals call in gifted student parents and beg them to send them somewhere where they don’t finish their work in 10 minutes and distract all the other average kids.)

As one poster stated, the massive number of BAD PARENTS, leaving their kids’ health and welfare to the teacher, not themselves, is the problem.

I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...

April 8th, 2012
6:06 pm

@Marietta Dink “Because any parent that sends their kids, especially a handicapped kid, to U. S. public schools is a BAD and IRRESPONSIBLE PARENT.”

Exaggerate much?

Brandy

April 8th, 2012
6:07 pm

After Teacher&Mom alerted me to the FTE funding for gifted, I took a little time to do some additional research. If anyone is interested:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CHAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.cherokee.k12.ga.us%2Fpersonal%2Fdeborah_kelly%2Fsite2%2FAssessment%2520Docs%2F1%2FState%2520of%2520the%2520State.ppt&ei=8AiCT5HOM4qv0AGbqMGaCA&usg=AFQjCNEIm1602nJitA_fc6aYD37KyymhMA
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/2010/08/federal_funding_for_gifted_edu_1.html
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CH8QFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Farchives.gadoe.org%2FDMGetDocument.aspx%2F2010-2011%2520Gifted%2520Education%2520Resource%2520Manual.pdf%3Fp%3D6CC6799F8C1371F64442E271C9197012F632DCEEDE565F6D653CF92690ABCFB0%26Type%3DD&ei=8AiCT5HOM4qv0AGbqMGaCA&usg=AFQjCNEl14Yh-9Q6o8VPILRCONzfCbiOAQ
http://giftedatlanta.com/

What I already knew/confirmed: Gifted Ed is (largely) unfunded by the Feds and there is no Federal mandate to provide gifted services. Gifted Ed is a functionary of Special Education in terms of classification and funding.
What I learned: GA (at least in years past, anyone have more recent numbers?) funds Gifted relatively well in relation to other states. There is currently proposed legislation to increase Federal support and funding for Gifted Ed (the TALENT Act).

Thanks, Teacher&Mom, I’ve always felt undereducated about gifted and realized that some things I thought were true are and some aren’t. I realized why I wasn’t seeing what you are talking about at my school–we have an Advanced Content course model that is moving to increase the number of those classes for all students, gifted or not, while decreasing or eliminating both traditional Gifted or “regular” options.

sped teacher

April 9th, 2012
9:33 am

I have taught special ed for many years and have seen a variety of “handling” of sped students, the most awful being my last place of employment. Here all the textbooks are passed out to the reg ed classes and sped teachers are told they will get some if there are any left over. I worked with students who, if not given the education they need now, will sit on a couch for 50-60 years and draw SSI at the government expense. Have you ever checked the astronomical amount of money that involves? Not only was I teaching students who were daily being discriminated against in many different ways, but I have a disability too. Most of you will never know how it feels to be discriminated against in such a debilitating fashion, but I tell you that it gets to your morale in a hurry! In such an environment, it is hard to be productive and for children to do their best. What is needed is education for all related to those with disabilities. Understanding is the key.

3schoolkids

April 9th, 2012
3:23 pm

What every parent wants for their child, whether gifted, regular ed or special ed is the best academic placement and for the school system to do the best it can to educate EVERY child appropriately. This complaint and DOJ investigation just highlights what years of austerity cuts have done to special needs education. What I found with my own child was the quality of education he received depended on the quality of his educators and the administrators of the individual school (3 different schools in 3 years to get the “free and appropriate” education in the “least restrictive environment”). This, ironically is true for the gifted and regular ed students as well. There needs to be some serious reform to Georgia’s funding of public education. I look forward to seeing the results of the investigation and hope it finally forces a change.

ScienceTeacher671

April 10th, 2012
6:19 am

I still see the problem in arbitrary rules such as the 90/80 MrNumbersMan referred to early in this thread. When you have the government saying this children must be in regular classes, and then parents coming in saying that their 9th grade child who is reading and doing math at a primary school level (if that) does not need to be in regular classes because s/he is too overwhelmed, it’s a bad situation.

At best, parents and teachers should decide together, based on the needs of the child and not on feel-good government formulas.

Parent

April 10th, 2012
9:47 am

I have a child in SPED, self contained Severe/Profound class. He has such a low IQ due to unknown causes that he will never live independently. He has no physical issues but his class is almost entirely wheelchair bound children. I have considered using his SB10 voucher for a decent private school. Turns out Dekalb county thinks he only cost $8807 annually. Try finding a private school for a regular ed kid for that kind of money. Private for him would be closer to $30,000 annually.

I also have a gifted, normal child. She gets shortchanged by her school and will not be returning to her home school. Still waiting on the magnet lottery to decide where she goes. At least with my son I didn’t have to hope he won a lottery to get an appropriate education.

Justice Department to look into discrimination against students with disabilities

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Justice Department to look into discrimination against students with disabilities

112 comments Add your comment

About Get Schooled

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More from the AJC

Are You or Your School the ‘Best In Class’?

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