Legislature endorses more cyber classes: They’re shiny and new but are they effective with k-12 students?
A teenage neighbor told me that he intended to be among the first in line for the new iPad that made its debut a few weeks ago. Since he already owned an iPad, I asked if the new model offered some innovation that he needed.
“I don’t know,” he told me, “but I know it’s better than what I’ve got.”
That seems to be the attitude of policymakers toward online learning, including some in the Georgia Legislature, which approved a new law pushing cyber high school courses:
Senate Bill 289 states: The State Board of Education shall establish rules and regulations to maximize the number of students, beginning with students entering ninth grade in the 2014-2015 school year, who complete prior to graduation at least one course containing online learning….A local school system shall not prohibit any student from taking a course through the Georgia Virtual School, regardless of whether the school in which the student is enrolled offers the same course.
Cybereducation is shiny and new. It’s market-driven and it represents the future.
But is it effective?
“There’s very little empirical research out there,” said Michael K. Barbour, a University of Georgia doctoral graduate who researches virtual learning at Wayne State University.
The positive research that has been done looked at adults or the earliest generation of virtual learners: bright, self-directed teens who went online to take tough courses their brick-and-mortar schools didn’t offer.
“Those students are equipped to do well in any learning environment,” Barbour said. “The second we put other kinds of students in that environment, they don’t do as well.”
Yet, all 50 states are expanding virtual options in k-12 education, and many, including Georgia, offer full-time online programs. With that expansion has come the arrival of private online providers, eager to enter the $600 billion k-12 market, typically as virtual charter schools.
A study by the National Education Policy Center at the University of Colorado found that more than 30 percent of high school students took at least one online class. The study noted that virtual schools are the fastest-growing alternative to traditional schools, enrolling 200,000 full-time students.
But the study found little oversight or accountability. “Few rules, little supervision, many students and families who struggle, and an unacceptably large number of enrollees who won’t make it through to the end,” said report co-author Gene V. Glass, who urges financial audits of cyberschools to determine their actual per-student expenses, authentication of student work and accreditation of both part-time and full-time cyberschools.
Minnesota, which has tripled its full-time virtual high school enrollment, found that online students scored lower in state testing and dropped out of school at higher rates; a quarter of online seniors dropped out, compared to only 3 percent of their peers.
A study of Colorado’s full-time cyberstudents noted similar performance lags. Once in the virtual school, students scored lower on state reading exams, with scores declining the longer they were in the program.
An analysis by the I-News Network and Education News Colorado found that Colorado’s virtual high schools produced three times more dropouts than graduates, which was the exact reverse of the state average, in which there were three graduates for every dropout.
The online providers counter that the lower performance reflects the nature of their students, teens who struggled in traditional classrooms and came to them already behind. (However, that was not the case in Colorado where the students enrolling in online course were, on average, not trailing their peers in traditional classrooms.)
But these are the very students least served in the prevailing for-profit format of online education.
While the selling point in state capitols is that virtual education individualizes learning, Barbour said it’s actually the opposite. “Much of the for-profit programs are one-size-fits-all. There is a single database that all instruction and assessment are being drawn from,” he said. “Some students might have to do more or do less, but the actual method of learning and instruction is the same for all students.”
Barbour said some school districts have created their own focused online programs that work for struggling students by blending classroom teaching and technology-assisted learning. Such intense programs cost more to maintain than other online programs, so they are generally not part of the for-profit blueprint.
In some full-time virtual schools, teachers act as tutors and graders and provide little customized teaching, Barbour said. They don’t have much choice, given that some online teachers complain they’re expected to manage 250 high school students.
“At-risk students who are struggling in traditional environments,” he said, “are still going to require a lot of that one-on-one instruction in online programs.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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84 comments Add your comment
Avahzd
April 3rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Cyber Schools like to say they have a flexible learning environment. That is bunk! We enrolled our oldest in the Georgia Cyber Academy and found that you will be stuck to the computer 4 hours or more a day. Everything is pretty much done with their software. Now granted they were being forced to comply with the same requirements of attendance and class time as a regular Campus school, so be aware that when they say that cyber learning is flexible it is not. The only flexing you can do is having class at any time of the day. And heavens forbid if you wanted to change scope and do an outing to an arts exhibit, etc. Our oldest is advanced to the point that we would just go to the end of each chapter and do the “test”, so yes it is one size fits all learning. The “teachers” only recourse was to advance her to the next grade levels. We didn’t want that, so we pulled her out in her 2nd year.
Bernie
April 3rd, 2012
12:50 pm
Anything that The georgia Legislature endorses as a soultion should be met with Great Hesitancy and Apprehension . The Lawmakers, especially the Georgia ones, truly are the last ones we should listen too, about making any decisions regarding the education of OUR children. Ignorance breeds IGNORANCE.
Mary Elizabeth
April 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
Beverly Fraud, 11:49 am
“The public schools have shown that value maintaining their power above ALL else. The ONLY way they are going to change is with threat of competition.”
———————————————————————–
Having worked in public schools for 35 years, I do not believe that the only way public schools are going to change is through the threat of competition. We seem to have two differing views on what motivates people – as many do – and that difference will effect how one views people, in general, as well as how one envisions the most productive environment for a school’s operation.
Perhaps the business world operates best through the threat of competition, but I believe that most educators, and perhaps most people, if inspired, have an intrinsic desire to excel. They achieve that excellence best in a nurturing, not a threatening, environment. Treating teachers with respect and care, while also educating them to more effective ways to increase student growth, enhances both teachers’ and students’ productivity and joy in the learning process. Look at the recent cheating debacles throughout the nation for examples of what has happened when unrealistic goals have been set for teachers in highly competitive, tense environments.
Public charter schools are one possiblility that may help to improve traditional public schools, but not all charter schools will automatically do that. Some charter schools are inferior to public schools as test results have shown. Nevertheless, if charter schools are carefully assigned and limited in number, and if they are encouraged to work in harmony with public schools, this latest educational endeavor could become an opportunity that could benefit both public charter schools and traditional public schools. The key is working together, and not working in competition with one another. Moreover, that is a better model for students to observe and emulate.
Beverly Fraud
April 3rd, 2012
1:26 pm
From Mary Elizabeth
“They (most people) achieve that excellence best in a nurturing, not a threatening, environment.”
But that is the EXACT problem with the public school system. Teachers are in increasingly THREATENING environments where the deck is stacked against them, then they are CONSISTENTLY blamed when they don’t draw 21 (blackjack)
The public schools have done almost NOTHING to address discipline and rampant RETALIATION.
Can you name a single policy with REAL TEETH, that has been enacted in the last decade to help prevent misuse (let’s be real, ABUSE) of the retaliation instrument? A policy with REAL TEETH that allows teachers to hold students accountable for behavior?
I can only name one, and GAE did everything in its power to shut it down.
I don’t see it changing in a MEANINGFUL way until thousands do what Fled did, which is flee. Maybe with MASSIVE teacher shortages the legislature and society might get that “blame teachers first” isn’t working.
Maybe.
Not surprised
April 3rd, 2012
1:57 pm
Just think, in about twenty years, no more large gas gussling yellow buses clogging up the streets and highways. We can convert all the vacant schools into juvenile holding centers.
MM
April 3rd, 2012
3:35 pm
Education via online computers will not go away. Not because there’s any proof it works but because it fits the Republican ideological mania for cutting public school budgets. In their ideal world the “common” kids will stay at home (alone because Republican economics requires both parents to work long hours just for a family to survive) where they will stare at a monitor all day. Think of the teachers you can fire and the school buildings and land you can convert to retail and commerical real estate.
Of course the “uncommon” kids (Republican and rich kids) will attend privatized school where they will receive teacher-based instruction aided by technology.
Didn’t see this one coming when you voted for Reagan and G. Bush did you?
Nathan Deal will push for the same thing so he can give more tax breaks (socialism for the private sector) to his crony business buddies.
Think that won’t happen? Tell that to the thousands of unemployment recipients who, after the latest legislative session, will be losing their benefits. And why? Because of crony politics by Sonny Purdue almost 10 years ago when he refused to collect UI taxes from Georgia businesses for 4 years. No wonder Sonny was so popular with them. All that money went down the rathole when the economy went bust and now we owe the Feds $750 million dollars because we had to go begging for a temporary loan which now has to be repaid.. And here in Georgia there is no rage against these people who hurt so many people because of their disasterous economic policies.
Killing off public education? That;s a non-brainer for the republican wrecking crew.
oldtimer
April 3rd, 2012
4:19 pm
Based on my experience working with people who have on line college coarses…..I say now way.
oldtimer
April 3rd, 2012
4:21 pm
I am so tired of people blaming one political group for problems in GA. I moved here in 1964 and the schools were lousey then…even in Dekalb. My sis ter and I had books we had used the year before..just different covers. This is not new to this legislatkure….
Reality
April 3rd, 2012
4:27 pm
@oldtimer – Stop your whining. Anyone with an ounce of sense can clearly see what the GA republican agenda includes when it comes to education. The question really is – do you have at least an ounce of sense?
Public HS Teacher
April 3rd, 2012
4:29 pm
Here is a revolutionary and real thought in Georgia regarding education….
Ask the teachers! Why not allow the teachers that teach the subject review these online courses and get their input?
Why do we allow politicans to make these decisions in education at all? Do these politicans decide the questions on the State Bar? Do these politicans determine who gets a medical license?
What in the WORLD is going on?????
Public HS Teacher
April 3rd, 2012
4:33 pm
I have had many conversations with students that have taken these online classes in Georgia. Here are their comments (paraphrased)…
1. Love them because we don’t have to go to class.
2. Love them because they can do them any place online.
3. Love them because they are so much easier to make a good grade (less rigorous).
4. Hate them because if I have a question then I cannot really get an answer. So I have to find a teacher in my school anyway.
5. Love them because the tests are so much easier.
6. Hate them because once in college, I knew that I was not prepared.
Beverly Fraud
April 3rd, 2012
4:47 pm
“I am so tired of people blaming one political group for problems in GA. I moved here in 1964 and the schools were lousey then…even in Dekalb.”
Well,online learning would cut down on lice problems; even detractors would have to admit that.
Being Censored by @Maureen
April 3rd, 2012
4:49 pm
The industrial age commenting on this blog brings a famous quote to mind, from pioneering American psychologist and philosopher William James: “The greatest discovery of my generation is human beings can alter their lives by altering their attitudes of mind.”
I wish for nothing more than for that discovery to re-emerge on this blog.
teacher&mom
April 3rd, 2012
5:03 pm
@Beverly Fraud: “Well,online learning would cut down on lice problems; even detractors would have to admit that.”
LOL….I needed a good laugh after the day I’ve had. Thanks!
William Casey
April 3rd, 2012
6:01 pm
In my area, History, online learning might work for introducing factual information and for review. However, for the real “meat and potatoes” of the subject, NO WAY.
Wondering
April 3rd, 2012
6:19 pm
Online teaching may expose students to facts but it rarely deals with the ability to perform synthesis or to extrapolate. I have difficulty hiring people with online degrees at the college level. We need more people with the higher level skills, which only come from human interaction and students being challenged by teachers.
Politicians and school boards are supposed to set budgets and establish policies. The educators are the teachers, not elected officials. Next time I need surgery, I don’t want Chip Rodgers with a scalpel. Why do I want him dictacting educational requirements at such a low level?
If we want to insure our children know how to use computers, make it a policy requirement that the schools teach children to use computers. How is up to the teachers.
I’m not an educator. I am not qualified to do their work, nor are most of them qualified to do mine. I work in engineering and have hired several hundred people over my career. My problem is that everyone wants to solve the already solved problem. Give me candidates with the ability to apply their skills to new problems. Online memorization for tests isn’t going to cut it.
Homeschooler
April 3rd, 2012
8:34 pm
MM..what planet do you live on? First of all. Almost every Republican I know has a least one parent at home raising their children. The few families in which both parents are working it is because it is a necessity. They are supporting not only their own families but those who don’t work, as well. Slam the Republicans all you want but it is the Republicans who support this country. You should be thankful that we, Republicans, hand over thousands upon thousands of dollars a year to schools we don’t use. Keep the money. Figure out how to use it but don’t blame the Republicans for the fact that the liberal school system stinks.
Online teacher
April 3rd, 2012
8:46 pm
I have taught online classes. Most of the traditional brick and
mortar students cannot handle the rigor of online classes. Case in point: at my high school, the French teacher retired. Students were forced into online classes to complete their two years of study. All but two passed. Why? Because students were accountable for their work and grades and there was no principal breathing down the necks of teachers to pass students because of failing too many students.
Homeschooler
April 3rd, 2012
9:17 pm
On topic..I don’t think most kids could handle on-line classes because I don’t think the average person raises his/her child to be that independent. As I’ve said before, I could totally get behind a 2-3 a week school schedule in which kids would still have the accountability and social opportunities. Much of the “home” work could be done online but deadlines would be in place weekly to keep kids on task. I’m talking about middle and high school, of course. Not elementary.
Mary Elizabeth
April 3rd, 2012
9:54 pm
@Wondering, 6:19 pm
Thank you for your post. I agree with all of your comments. I was a public school teacher for 35 years, before I retired. I suspect you are a first rate engineer, with the depth of thought that you have shown regarding the educational process – in his higher dimensions.
Thank you, also, for thinking for yourself (as well as for taking the time to post your thoughts), instead of simply accepting someone else’s generalized talking points. I appreciate the respect that you have shown to educators in your post. I wish more could see with your eyes.
Ron F.
April 3rd, 2012
10:05 pm
“You should be thankful that we, Republicans, hand over thousands upon thousands of dollars a year to schools we don’t use. Keep the money. Figure out how to use it but don’t blame the Republicans for the fact that the liberal school system stinks.”
You obviously aren’t from this state, are you? Georgia is largely republican, and from what I see of the maps, many of the kids I teach and know in this state are, in fact, from republican families. And by the way, most of those families have two parents working, or are single-parent families. Yes, the republican party did let those pesky single parents in the door, and yes many of them are conservative in their politics and lifestyles.
Ron F.
April 3rd, 2012
10:19 pm
“Slam the Republicans all you want but it is the Republicans who support this country.”
Wow, so if I’m a democrat, I don’t have to pay any taxes and you’ll support me? Where do I sign up?!!
In reality, while I know your comments come from a heated, frustrated point of view where it’s easy to, without much rationality, blame the “other guy” for the problems, I also have to fact check you on that statement. Registered democrats AND independents pay taxes also. As citizens, we agree to pay taxes to provide and support all sorts of public services, including education, that we all have access to should we choose to use them. If we choose not to share that financial commitment, then we must be ready to surrender those services, or be willing to pay a fee per use. Imagine your subdivision streets with toll booths, or having to buy a ticket to the local library. I’m not sure we really realize all our tax dollars provide and how much of that depends on our willingness to do it together regardless of political affiliation. While the current polarization and rancor have benefitted conservative candidates in political races, the collateral damage to society when we refuse to work together will have dire consequences in the not so distant future. Unemployment benefits have not been paid out of late based on political party nor have food benefits been given to any particular group. Our willingness to help all, regarless of politics, has kept many families alive through the worst recession in most of our lifetimes. Think about the next time you drive down a public road or visit a public park or call 911 because there’s a fire.
Atlanta Mom
April 3rd, 2012
11:06 pm
“Almost every Republican I know has a least one parent at home raising their children”
Almost ever Democrat I know has at least one parent at home raisin their children. But, unlike you, I don’t assume everybody is like me/
N. GA Teacher
April 3rd, 2012
11:12 pm
Online learning is already a terrific tool. It allows those unable to attend school due to remoteness or disability, those motivated to achieve beyond the classroom, and those for whom distractions created by other children are forbidding barriers, to legitimately EARN an education. A positive byproduct of this are cost savings from lower bus costs, meal consumption, and SPED teacher and parapro assignments. However that’s the key here: the cost savings are byproducts. Once cost savings become the raison d’etre for online courses (as is the rage at community colleges) then the legitimacy(rigor and academic integrity) of such programs comes into question. As a high school teacher, I agree with blog commenters who claim that only the best and most motivated kids can perform adequately on truly legitimate online learning. The great majority of students lack the organizational and self disciplinary skills to excel in the regular classroom, let alone online!! Given that parental involvement is nil for most kids, who will structure a kid’s day? Or do we let “online learning” sink to “summer school online” or “credit recovery” or the pap served up by X-diploma mill corporation? The best thing to do is to allow those kids who truly have the skills and motivation to accomplish this to do it, and, in time, as kids continue to evolve in the electronic age (going beyond facebooking and idle surfing or retaking of identical standardized tests), to gradually increase the online participation as kid’s abilities grow.
TeacherMom4
April 4th, 2012
8:29 am
Having completed a master’s degree online, I can say I prefer face-to-face education. I chose online for the convenience; I wanted to be able to go out of town with my family in the summer and not have to worry about coordinating childcare if my husband wasn’t available to be with our children at night or on a weekend. Brick and mortar just was not a possibility for me at that time. I did have to work very hard in my program, and it took a great deal of self-discipline to complete the weekly assignments in a quality and meet the weekly deadlines. I don’t think most of our kids possess that degree of self-discipline. There were a lot of adults who couldn’t keep up. I’m not sure if I think a completely on-line course would work for most kids.
I can also say I don’t feel like I learned as well on-line. There were video lectures to watch, weekly quizzes, discussion boards, reading assignments, and weekly papers to write, plus midterms and finals. In other words, there was a lot of work, but I’m not sure that it translated into better learning. Most of my work was basically to “prove” I was paying attention, watching the videos, and reading. Most of us need some social interaction and discussion to process what we’re learning, and the discussion board did not really provide that. I would worry that with high school basics kids could finish without really processing the information yet still pass the course.
Hybrid classes could be a great compromise. They would allow actual interaction of students with each other and the teacher but still provide some flexibility with when and where the rest of the learning/practice took place. I can see this having potential to ease overcrowding, too. Classes could be staggered so that fewer students at a time were in the face-to-face classes at the same time, providing more opportunity for assistance from the teacher.
I don’t think this should be mandated, however. There are kids who just won’t do well online. They may be great at using apps, texting each other, and playing video games, but that does not mean they are so digitally wired that they can/will use technology to learn course material. Once the medium isn’t fun, it loses its appeal. At this point online learning should be an available option for those who want to try it but not mandatory.
Eric
April 4th, 2012
9:25 am
Online education is not much of an education at all!
Homeschooler
April 4th, 2012
11:30 am
@ Ron F. My comment was a direct reply to MM and her generalization of the Republican party. I see now that I misread part of the comment (I thought he/she was saying that both republican parents often worked). At any rate. I stand by my comment if you are looking at things the way MM does. That the “rich” are the Republicans. Therefore they pay more taxes, have bigger homes, pay more property tax and are the least likely to use public education. So, why not just be glad that they are there, doing that so that the people who don’t pay as much taxes can enjoy public education. You can’t argue that the lowest socioecnomic classes are the least likely to use something other than public education. It just made me mad that MM was slamming the Republicans for the problem. The problem with the education system is that there is too much control at the federal (and even the state) level. Too much of a one size fits all model. If communities were better able to find what best works for their specific groups of kids there would be much fewer problems. I will never believe that the Republican political party would intentionally pass laws to throw the lower classes to the wolves because they just don’t care (as MM was suggesting). I do, however think the democratic party does a huge disservice to Americans in general by giving, and providing which equals controlling and keeping down rather than raising up. Of course taxes are needed for things that are needed (roads etc..) but not for unnecessary government programs. The earned income tax credit comes to mind. Surely all parties can agree that our government wastes too much money.
Wondering
April 4th, 2012
1:56 pm
Some are posting about their adult experience in online classes, and this reminded me of two points. The first is that adults and children learn differently. If you design a class for adults, the pace, content and even the methods should be selected based on how adults learn. Children learn differently and the article was about the education of children. Adult experiences while interesting do not necessarily apply.
The second issue is the definition of an online class. Having a live teacher working with students interactively over a computer link is often used to deal with the lack of teachers in certain geographic areas. Some call this an online class but it is usually termed something like remote learning. The teacher, student interaction allows the teacher to challenge the student and answer questions immediately.
An online class that is more of a stagnant web session is more to the point of the requirement for online classes. The teacher, student interaction is minimal and the ability to answer simple questions is missing. These types of classes are less effective as there is no one monitoring the student for understanding and no ability for adapting to various students’ learning methods.
The bottom line is that distance learning is a better option than no class at all. Online classes (and distance learning) require more maturity on the part of the student, and are not able to adjust to students’ needs as well as a teacher led classroom, limiting their effectiveness, especially with younger more immatue students.
MM
April 4th, 2012
3:00 pm
@ Homeschooler 11:30
Time only for a quick comment but I couldn’t help but note that you described me as “her.” I am a 60-year old white male. I fit the profile of a typical Republican voter but obviously am not. Your biases are showing but I clearly see where you’re coming from. The Republican presidential candidates are in big trouble will women because they reflect their white male voting base. Repubs can’t see how anyone that doesn’t look like them doesn’t think like them. So far to go on the human awareness thing…
I noticed that neither you and Ron F. deal with the content of my comments regarding online education and the wrong-headed economic policies of doctrinaire conservatives . Understandable.
My comments angered you both because I challenge whether you are “good” people. Yes, that’s true. We rationalize our selfish behavior and our actions stem from that. No, Republicans don’t wake up in the morning asking “how many poor people can I screw today.” Instead, they wake up thinking how they can advance their own selfish interests. That mentality is not only tolerated but promoted in our dog-eat-dog,self-absorbed society. (No, giving to the United Way or volunteering at our kid’s school don’t really count for much because most do those things to think better of themsleves, not because of any genuine love for humanity.) What Repubs choose to ignore for obvious reasons is that these two things are different sides of the same coin. When we become each other’s brothers and sisters keepers then we will be truely be “good people.”
teacher
April 4th, 2012
6:59 pm
There was a great article in the New York Times in the fall about digital literacy and its lack of effectiveness on student achievement.
Perhaps our illustrious lawmakers could read this and realize that we have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
Wooden Horse
April 4th, 2012
11:12 pm
You really need to investigate how the Georgia Professional Standards Commission lets Georgia Virtual School get away with using teachers who are not certified in the fields they teach.
world we live in, in cobb
April 9th, 2012
8:07 am
If the students want to take an online course – great! but it does not have to be mandated by state law/required for graduation- – that’s just stupid !!!! But oh wait – it’s the GA Legislature – I forgot ….
Maude
April 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
Who is really doing the work for these on-line classes?? Is it parents or someone hired to do the work for the child?
Maureen Downey
April 9th, 2012
3:06 pm
@Maude, There is concern about authenticating student work in online classes. Maureen