Testing season revs up: March madness leads to April angst
Here is a great essay by Georgia classroom teacher Beth Pittard, who is also a grad student at the University of Georgia College of Education:
By Beth Pittard
While many people around the country complete brackets for basketball, teachers everywhere gear up for their own version of March Madness. To prepare for the Criterion Referenced Competency Test to be taken sometime between April 4- May 6, elementary school teachers will actually have to convince students to forget what they have learned about reading.
The high-stakes testing situation leads, literally, to madness.
Let me explain. Teachers are required to teach the Georgia Performance Standards with fidelity. We are expected to “prove” we are doing this by posting the standard in a “highly visible” place in our classrooms along with an essential question (EQ) for each lesson of each day and for each subject area (forget integrating the curriculum, but that’s another story).
Each standard has a code that gives information about the subject area, the grade level, the number of the standard, and the element within that standard. The standard below (ELA5R1h) is interpreted as: English/Language Arts, grade 5, Reading standard 1, element a. The corresponding EQ is also a requirement.
This particular Georgia Performance Standard aligns with research in English Language Arts. Students demonstrate more sophisticated comprehension of text, more motivation to read, and a broader and deeper knowledge of content when they use prior knowledge (memories) and personal experiences to make sense of the text and relate it to new information.
But here comes the contradiction. During March Madness, signs like this are posted on school walls:
In other words, students as young as 8 years old are taught to be perceptive, connection-making readers the first part of the year. Then those same students are told not to use the very skills and practices their teachers have taught them “good readers use” so they can pass a test.
Administrators and teachers lose in this system. Administrators attempt to support teachers by giving them strategies shown to increase test scores. Teachers are required to teach these test-taking strategies that are in direct opposition to the standards they’ve been required to teach all year.
Who loses the most? Confused students, again as young as 8, who see tests as uphill battles. Before they sit down on the “real” test day, their anxiety has been building. They know there are multiple ways to “read” each question: to make personal connections or not; to choose the “best” answer or the “right” one and how to figure out the difference between the two. Parents don’t know how to help. The community is outraged or discouraged because “those” kids or “those” teachers or “those” administrators cannot seem to get it together and pass that one little test.
That one little test that can change the academic trajectory of a student. Third graders must pass the reading portion in order to be promoted to the fourth grade. Fifth and eighth graders must pass the reading and math portions to be promoted to the next grade.
Let me be clear. This is not a teacher problem. This is not an administrator problem. This is not a parent problem, and it certainly is not a student problem. It is a systematic problem that is not going to change until we refuse to make high-stakes judgments about students based on a number on a test.
Stop the March Madness! If teachers were allowed time to teach and plan rather than constantly having to prove that we are teaching required standards, then maybe students would have opportunities to learn things that will serve them well in life—not just contradictory lessons that confuse them in an effort to pass a standardized test.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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84 comments Add your comment
Maureen Downey
March 29th, 2012
12:31 pm
@irish, Check back now. I think the images should be visible now.
Maureen
irisheyes
March 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
Thanks! The second image makes me weep. I work so hard to get my kids to lose themselves in a book, and then they’re supposed to forget it all when they take the CRCT in 3rd grade.
To irisheyes
March 29th, 2012
4:13 pm
I understand your point. You want kids to read for enjoyment. You want kids to explore on their own through the magic and wonder of a good book. I get it.
But do you get that the sign isn’t about pleasure reading?
the sign clearly says when you are taking a READING TEST.
The sign is awkward but accurate.
The children are supposed to read the paragraph and choose the correct answer to determine if they can comprehend what they are reading. It’s not a pleasure read. It’s not for enjoyment. It’s a test. They aren’t supposed to be fun.
I knew the purpose of a test as a kid. I got out my number two pencil and took them all my life. I did my best. They were easy.
They didn’t damage me or stress me out.
I think the people who are stressed here are the teachers and the stress they are feeling is contagious.
For goodness sake, teach your students how to read. If you can read, you can learn anything.
GM
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
March 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
GM “I think the people who are stressed here are the teachers and the stress they are feeling is contagious.”
Of course teachers are stressed – our jobs, our schools, our reputations, our pay…all of it is beginning to hinge on these tests. I do my very best not to let that stress affect my students. I try to keep a balance between letting them know the tests are important and not freaking them out. However, every year, I still have students who literally make themselves sick over worrying about the tests. They shake. They cry. Some of them throw up. Maybe people are not clear that are talking about FIVE DAYS of testing – with several hours a day devoted to taking the test. We are talking about asking children as young as six to sit still and take a test for several hours straight (no talking, no whispering, no wiggling) for several days in a row. Children who get extended time can literally be testing for four hours straight (with one ten minute break). Struggling readers will laboriously force themselves to read a full page of text and answer the questions, and instead of getting praised for their hard work, they will turn the page and be faced with another full page of text, and another after that and another after that. Special education students who can barely count will carefully draw 45 groups of 6 circles to figure out a multiplication problem, and then face an entire page of similar problems.
It is a form of torture in my opinion.
The ITBS is shorter, faster, nationally normed and gives information that corresponds well with CRCT scores, so why not use it and do away with this stress for teachers, students and parents.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming...
March 29th, 2012
6:07 pm
@Elizabeth
I am sorry to hear you are leaving the profession. I have enjoyed your comments on this blog and believe you to be a dedicated educator. Our field will be lessened by your loss.
sneak peek into education
March 29th, 2012
6:18 pm
to GM: I have the distinct impression that it does not matter what any teacher says about the true realities of teaching, you always feel you know better. It is laughable because it is obvious that you have never spent a day teaching a class for an hour, a day, a week, a month or a year. However, you post your humble opinions (and please, do take note of my sarcasm here) as if you are an expert in everything related to teaching and learning.I think it is interesting that you ignore my statement that your obvious lack of experience leaves you very limited in your ability to understand the complexities of teaching. I used the analogy of the Iraq war and how I could stop the war tomorrow, but I have neither the experience nor qualifications to be able to comment on this with authority. For some reason, you feel otherwise. As a parent who was truly involved in both my children’s education, both inside and outside the classroom, I spent countless hours helping teachers in the classroom and was an active PTA member. When my children were old enough, I decided to go to teaching college to get my degree. Even with all the hands-on time I had spent in my children’s classroom, I was in no way prepared for the true complexities of the job.
I will say this loud and clear so that there is no mistake, and this is just not my opinion as an experienced teacher but the opinions of renowned educational and child development psychologists, CHILDREN DO NOT ALL LEARN AT THE SAME RATE. To rebut your statements, you are wrong about learning to read; IT IS NOT EASY. Maybe for some it is, but not for all. If it was that easy as you suggest, every child who was subjected to your method of teaching phonics (i.e. watching Sesame Street) would be reading proficiently by the time they reach pre-k. Anyone with a brain knows this is not the case. I think it is commendable that you taught your children to read; I did this with my children but as a hands-on parent, I saw this as my responsibility, and neither expected nor demanded that their teacher(s) be the only person/people to teach my children this skill. You want to be applauded for something that is a parent’s responsibility. Now to my experience as a teacher of 23 students; I have some in my classroom who are voracious readers and read well above grade level, some who do well and are reading at grade level, and others who struggle for a variety of reasons, some of which are diagnosed learning disabilities, little or no exposure to reading materials at home, behavioral problems (the child constantly having to be redirected back to the task in hand and thus taking teaching time away from others), and some who are immigrants (even refugees) who have limited English. Your experience of teaching your own children was done on a one-on-one situation; I would love to be able to do this for each and every child I have in my classroom but I cannot; every child under my tutelage needs my time and attention. Again, your inability to comprehend this shows your simplistic and naive view of what truly goes on in a classroom.
I will also say that you are wrong to state that anyone with an average or below average I.Q,. can be taught how to read. This is not just my point-of-view, but also that of educational and child psychologists. You can have children who are nothing more than word-callers and can read fantastically but do not comprehend what they are reading. This, again, can be a processing delay or learning delay. But then, how could you possibly understand this unless you have researched this and/or had hands-on experience with a classroom full of children. Please show me your educational credentials and qualifications and I will be happy to retract my statement. Here is an analogy that you may be able to grasp; if I was to watch a surgeon perform a simple, surgical procedure, would that give me the knowledge and expertise necessary to perform the same task? I am not conceited enough to believe so, but you feel otherwise when it comes to teaching. You remind me of a t-shirt I once saw that said “I used to be conceited but now I am absolutely perfect”.
Furthermore, you are also wrong about the CRCT. I wish the question you posted was on the test but it isn’t. And, what makes you think they don’t need to get that many correct? Both these statements are laughable and false. A 3rd Grade reading test involves reading a variety of lengthy passages, after which the student has to answer questions using a various strategies to gain meaning from the text. Many of the questions are “trick” questions, designed to trip the student up. I have seen the brightest students confused by these questions and chose the wrong answers. Again, you post as if you are an expert. Have you seen or implemented a CRCT test in real-life?
Let me ask you this: if 100 children attend a sports camp and are trained by a coach to run a mile, should they all be able to run it at the same speed (to be fair, let’s include those students who have physical disabilities) and if not, is it the fault of the coach? If a group of children attend an art camp and are taught to paint a still-life, should every painting look the same, even for those children with visual disabilities, and if not, is it the fault of the art teacher? If a group of children were to go the dentist and told that they needed to brush their teeth and not eat candy to avoid cavities but some needed a filling on their next visit, it is the fault of the dentist? If a group of children were told to exercise 30 minutes each day and eat healthily to avoid heart disease, but some still developed heart disease, is is the fault of the doctor?
Lastly, another 2 points you ignored from my previous post; go and get your teaching degree and become the highly respected and amazing administrator you claim you would be. Put your words into action and do it,, instead of sitting on the sidelines and complaining and whining about teachers without the knowledge and expertise. You are what we would call in my home country and arm-chair expert. Secondly, if your children’s’ education is so awful, put them first and home school them. Why are you constantly complaining about how awful their school/teachers are without doing something about it? You have choices.
sneak peek into education
March 29th, 2012
7:42 pm
Sorry about the above type. Should read:” it is obvious that you have never spent an hour, a day, a week, a month, or a year teaching a classroom full of students with a variety of learning styles and abilities”.
Don't Feed the Good Mother Troll
March 29th, 2012
8:12 pm
@ sneak peek into education. Sigh. You must be a newcomer to this blog, for everyone knows that GM is a troll, and cyberbaits teachers. Shapes his/her comments and stories to whatever the blog topic is.
bilbo799
March 29th, 2012
9:38 pm
Good gracious.
Yet another “blame the system” column. So bad policy — this bad test — is keeping wonderful teachers, students, and administrators from doing what they do best? We wouldn’t have this test in the first place if that were true. You may be a great teacher some day — congrats. But we have measurements and tests because the people who came before you screwed up. Blame them, not this test.
QUIT WHINING
March 29th, 2012
9:46 pm
Learning might be analogous to training for a marathon — stick with me here. By the time a student graduates from high school, he/she should complete a marathon — the best do it in 2.5 hours, while those who struggle can’t finish or take much longer, like 6 hours. To make sure students are making MINIMAL progress, we make them run 1 mile in less than 1 hour. Not unreasonable — maybe not a great indication of how the student will run a marathon, but just establishes a baseline.
That’s what these CRCT tests are like. Teachers (like the author of the column) act like they have to drop everything to “teach the test,” as if the test is random or difficult. But the test actually covers material that students should know anyway. If teachers are supposed to be helping students run a marathon, what’s wrong with making sure students can walk a mile?
Don’t believe the nonsense about preparing for the test distracting schools from doing what they “should” be doing. The test is nothing.
bilbo799
March 29th, 2012
10:06 pm
@ Sneak Peak.
Brevity can be a virtue, as can the subjunctive.
I’m no fan of GM — I usually disagree with GM and object to the way GM communicates ideas. But where do you get off suggesting that only someone who has conducted research or has classroom experience can understand what’s going on in our education system?
I guess you can’t understand religion unless you’ve gone to seminary. I guess you can’t understand literature unless you’ve written a novel. I guess you can’t understand law unless you’re a judge.
And by your own standards, you can’t understand public policy unless you’re a bureaucrat, public official, or run a think tank (etc, etc), so while you may understand what goes on in your classroom, you couldn’t possibly understand how education policy fits within the larger public policy framework.
Of course I don’t really believe that. Maybe we all need to take a deep breath and get a little perspective.
Blog Bites | COE Policy Blog
March 29th, 2012
10:28 pm
[...] teacher and UGA College of Ed graduate student Beth Pittard offers a compelling description of the effects of testing on students and teachers at the Atlanta Journal Constitution’s Get [...]
Brandy
March 30th, 2012
12:31 am
@bilbo799,
Of course anyone who has ever read a piece of literature can discuss literature; however, that conversation is enriched by the presence of the “experts” (i.e. those who have actually written and been published). Anyone who has ever gone to the house of worship of their choice, read a religious text or book, had a personal moment of faith, or listened to a sermon, homily, or religious speech can discuss religion; however, that conversation is also enriched when the “experts” (i.e. clergy members and those with training and/or degrees in theology, religious history, or religious studies) participate. Anyone who has a modicum of education about civics can discuss law; however, again, that conversation is enriched when the “experts” (i.e. law makers, lawyers, solicitors, barristers, judges, and advocates) join the discussion.
Would you trust John Smith the plumber’s opinion on what a specific passage in the religious text of your choice means over the opinion of a clergy member or a person with a degree in theology, religious history, or religious studies? Would you trust Betty White’s opinion on whether that mole on your back was cancerous over that of your physician? Would you trust Oprah Winfrey’s opinion on the legality of some action over that of a lawyer or a judge?
Of course not. You respect doctors, lawyers, clergy, professors, writers, and journalists as professionals who have special training and experience in their chosen fields. Teachers, like other professionals, have special training and experience in their field: educational theory, practice, and conditions. Why then do you seem to devalue educators as professionals?
Some teachers screw up. Some doctors screw up. Some teachers are unethical. Some clergy members are unethical. Some teachers aren’t experts. Some lawyers aren’t experts. I would venture that a certain population of every profession, whether public or private, is inherently bad, flawed, or “just there for the bennies and the benjamins”. Does that make all doctors, lawyers, clergy, et cetera not professionals? Of course not. So why should it make all teachers not professionals?
Respect is a two way street. You have to give it to earn it. Right now, GM and you aren’t earning it, so why should we educators give it to you both?
Brandy
March 30th, 2012
1:21 am
But, as you said…
“Of course I don’t really believe that. Maybe we all need to take a deep breath and get a little perspective.”
Truer words have never been spoken.
ScienceTeacher671
March 30th, 2012
6:22 am
@I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming…The ITBS is shorter, faster, nationally normed and gives information that corresponds well with CRCT scores, so why not use it and do away with this stress for teachers, students and parents.
Not to mention, the ITBS breaks out the different subject into discrete skills – reading comprehension, punctuation, math calculation, etc. – that are much more useful for remediation than CRCT results are.
The problem is that so many Georgia students would be performing so far below grade level on the ITBS. An 8th grade student who barely passes the CRCT has a grade equivalent of 4.5 on the ITBS in reading and math. Not good.
Teacher who is leaving at the end of the year
March 30th, 2012
7:35 am
I’m done at 24 years. The stress is literally killing me. I have an ulcer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and diabetes.
Add to all that, I have an administrator who is very similar to Elizabeth’s in that he is more interested in what the county prescribes so he can check it off the list. Who gives a sh** if the kid is actually learning something? I got thrown on a PDP this year after a disasterous obsevation where my blood sugar suddenly dropped and I had to stop and sit. (I was diagnosed with diabetes a couple of months later.) It didn’t matter that I had a medical issue: it just conflicted with his stupid little check list. The PDP was a nightmare in itself with observations at the end of the day before holidays, etc.
I can’t get the hang of parroting the EQ over and over and that is all she wrote.
I used to love teaching. I love watching kids get that “a ha” moment when they not only grasp a concept but can link it to other things.. But with the system becoming the way it is, there is less and less of that.
I feel sorry for the future employers of the kids we are systematically cheating. They won’t know what hit them when these people show up…or not show up…and don’t have the ability to do the work. I feel sorry for colleges now as they are getting hoardes of students who have to take remediation because they graduated from high school while reading on a 7th grade level (if that.)
But most of all, I feel sorry for myself. I feel that I used to matter to kids. Now I don’t. And now I’m out of a job.
Brandy
March 30th, 2012
4:10 pm
Brandy, I neither want nor need your respect.
You can blather on all you want on a public blog for all I care.
But I do care about the kids that you either teach or neglect.
Brandy when you kicked parents to teh curb with your “parents get their kids 7,000 o rmore hours a year and we get them only 1,000 hours a year” argument, you didn’t include the fact that the majority of the 7,000 hours a year I am with my kids they are….sleeping and so am I.
It’s hard to teach adn hard to learn when we are sleeping, Brandy. You see, it’s silly little thoughtless arguments like the ones you are making which make me wince. You’re a teacher and you couldn’t think that through? You should feel very embarrassed.
And, Brandy….teaching is what you are PAID to do. That’s why we work — to pay your salary and benefits so that you will teach our kids…but instead…you spend your energy and time whining on an online blog with an anonymous stranger.
Really, Brandy, you want respect?
You’re sad.
and I’m sad for Georgia’s kids. They deserve better than you.
GM
Brandy
March 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
@GM, Please note the times I post–never during school hours unless there is no school or I have taken a personal day for other reasons (illness, doctor’s appointment, ill child, et cetera). I give my students 110% every day: all of my attention and all of my expertise. I have never once been on this site at work, even during my time off (ie:after school or before school). Please do not insult me, because, trust me, I can do a better job of doling out the disparaging comments than you can (I mean, at least I can spell correctly with some consistency). Grow up, GM, and get a life–maybe take some of the time you spend on this blog (massive amounts from what I can tell) and spend it with your “appallingly average” (if I am remembering your words correctly) children. Otherwise, I’m sad for your kids. They obviously deserve better than you.
@Maureen, GM needs to be banned if he or she continues to insult and attack people like this.
sneak peek into education
March 30th, 2012
6:20 pm
@ Brandy; It looks like GM has a hobby; to antagonize and vilify teachers with his/her inane comments. Whenever a point is made to rebuke his/her senseless comments, she ignores them and moves into another phase of attack. If I were you, I would ignore her, and as one other frequent poster stated, don’t feed the troll. Even if you dedicated 24hrs a day to teaching and did it for free, she would still classify teachers as “freeloaders” and whiners, even though she complains incessantly about her apparent lack of benefits etc… and her children’s teachers. She would rather attack and complain about teachers than do something to improve her situation.
MB
March 30th, 2012
7:51 pm
Spring Break started this afternoon. I asked several students in my middle school throughout the day about their break plans, which obviously varied (but included, I thought, a surprising number of them staying in town – for our community, anyway).
One student’s response, though, made me want to cry: “I guess I’ll just study and practice for the CRCT all week.” I told him that some exercise, fresh air, fun and recreational reading would be a good balance so his brain wasn’t stressed before the test; I couldn’t help myself. He agreed that might be good. This child will likely “exceed” on his CRCTs, but the stress level over the test was uber-obvious. So, so, so sad…
Brandy
March 30th, 2012
9:43 pm
@MB, Same here and, yes, so, so, sad.
@Sneak Peek, Yes and from here on out, GM can say whatever he or she wants, but I’m not listening. Stupid troll…
ScienceTeacher671
March 30th, 2012
10:09 pm
The part that annoys me is the 4:10 p.m. posting that at first glance appears to be from Brandy, but upon closer inspection turns out to be from the “GM” troll.
Is it too much to ask for people to put the same thing in the “Name” section every time???
bilbo799
March 30th, 2012
10:17 pm
@ Brandy
Oh my goodness. I was responding to “sneak peek’s” comment, which I’m sure you read. “sneak peek” spends an enormous amount of time/space not necessarily addressing GM’s arguments, but tooting her own horn. She implies that her opinion is better because GM has “never spent a day teaching a class,” has an “obvious lack of experience,” and has never “researched” or had “hands-on experience.” She even challenges GM to “show her educational credentials and qualifications.”
So I make the point that self-appointed experts in education don’t have a monopoly on valid opinions. You don’t need “credentials and qualifications” to be part of the conversation on education, just like you don’t need those things to have reasonable opinions on literature, religion, or anything else. If you disagree with someone’s opinion, tell us why you disagree, not why you think you’re so much more qualified than someone else.
You respond to me by stating that experts can enrich a conversation — when did I say anything that implied otherwise? Of course experts can enrich a conversation, but simply touting your own expertise does little to advance a conversation. How did I “devalue educators as professionals,” relative to doctors, lawyers, clergy, etcs? I never say or imply that educators are more or less valuable as professionals than anyone else. Then, you say that a few bad teachers doesn’t make all teachers “not professionals” (I think the terms should be “unprofessional” but whatever) — I didn’t criticize any teacher’s professionalism or, for that matter, accuse any teachers of being “bad.”
Apparently, I don’t have your respect because I haven’t earned it. I wrote a brief, moderate response to “sneak peek” addressing the narrow point that credentials aren’t everything in a public discussion, contrary to what she implies. You responded to me with an emotional, rambling diatribe about how teachers don’t get respect, comparing a teacher’s thoughts on an education blog with a physician’s diagnosis of cancer. I certainly hope (and do not believe) that you aren’t representative of the educators in this state, both in terms of analytical/writing skill and in terms of thought process.
My goodness indeed.
Don't Feed the Good Mother Troll
March 30th, 2012
10:33 pm
@ Brandy, GM has been advising dedicated teachers to quit on this blog as long as I can remember. Let’s see if I can remember some of their monikers: HS Public Teacher, V is for Vendetta–oh, and do not forget Catlady, and the prolonged slander she underwent from GM, and still is. I don’t know why Maureen still is allowing it…. she announced for awhile that personal attacks were no longer allowed and the posters had to stay on topic…But here GM is, still pulling the same trick on you.
It’s very painful for others to watch.
Don't Feed the Good Mother Troll
March 30th, 2012
10:39 pm
@ Bilbo 799. I guess you’ve never been the butt of GM’s ridicule and sarcasm.
@ Science Teacher 671. GM has been doing that for quite awhile..often just uses lower case “gm” at the end of a long tirade. Sometimes has no name at all, but the snide tone gives him/her away. Again, I don’t know why the rules are not enforced on this.
To Sneak Peek
March 30th, 2012
10:52 pm
Do you have good reading comprehension skills? I don’t think so. No wonder our GA school children don’t. You ask ” Why are you constantly complaining about how awful their school/teachers are without doing something about it? You have choices.”
Yes, I have a real education; therefore I have choices and I’ve exercised them. As I have said many times, I am sending my children to private school next year; however, I still have a couple of dogs in this fight as I am a residential property owner in two districts. The value of my homes depend on the value of the school district: :Location, Location, Location. I also simply care about the futures of the children of America and the future of my coutry, which depends on eduated citizens.
The CRCT is a ridiculously easy test to pass and to pass, one needs to get a very low score. The students simply are not taught well in Georgia. Other States get it right.
Look at the practice tests Irish Eyes posted. The question asks who taught the swimming lessons and lists four names. Her uncle taught the swimming lesssons and the sentence clearly says so. The answer is apparent. All the child has to do is read, which means, to understand what is read, not just the ability to make the sound come out of ones mouth.
I did it.
My classmates did it.
Poor, disenfranchised, shoeless children who go to school in dirt floors learn to read from their teachers in third-world teachers….
but you…
you…
not, you.
You can’t teach kids to read.
You make all the excuses in the world.
It is a sad day in GA when I read comments like yours. You’re what’s teaching our children?
God help us.
GM
Brandy
March 31st, 2012
1:04 am
@Bilbo, I’m sorry. Did you not see the second part of my post? I actually agreed with your statement “of course I don’t really believe that” and commended you: “Truer words have never been spoken”. I am not certain where I rambled, became emotional, or did not explain my view point. But, go ahead and believe whatever you wish. I will do the same.
What is my view point, you ask? Educators are experts on education due to training and experience; therefore, their opinions on education both enrich the conversation and carry more weight than those of people without such expertise. I feel the same about any group of professionals–even you, whatever your field. You disagree? That is both a fine and necessary part of the democratic process. Hey, to each his or her own.
@Don’t Feed, Thank you. Yes, I don’t get it either. I’ve often wondering if that name trick is to avoid any censors placed on him or her.
Whatever happened to civil discourse? My students understand it better than some of the supposed adults I encounter on this blog. The things people feel safe to say due to the supposed anonymity of the internet…
=====================================================================
Could we all agree to get off the cheap spelling or grammar punts? We are all human and we all make mistakes. Unless the highlighted error is egregious or exceptionally frequent, it just opens up the commentator to more rigorous inspection. I won’t comment on your double negative, if you ignore another person’s subjunctive misuse, okay?
Brandy
March 31st, 2012
1:17 am
egads, that should say “wondered”. Sorry.
Rouhollah
March 31st, 2012
1:49 am
A simple calculation:
Every child and adolescent spends March and April for CCRC and preparation for that, this multiply by 12 years of studying at schools means spending 6 years of their life for those stupid tests.
ScienceTeacher671
March 31st, 2012
7:57 am
I think some of the spelling/grammar errors we’ve seen lately are due to posters on iPads or smartphones with auto-correct. I could be wrong, but the resemble those sorts of errors.
sneak peek into education
March 31st, 2012
8:12 am
@bilbi799 – It is very interesting that you comment on my response and it’s lack of brevity. I would have loved to have been brief but believed that GM’s comments and lack of understanding were worthy of an in-depth response. It is also interesting to note that your responses are not that brief when you rebut what someone comments on your posts, but maybe you are a “Do as I say, not as I do” type of person. There are plenty of those in this blog. Anyway, In retrospect to GM, I understand that her main purpose of this blog is to antagonize and whine teachers, I believe that she is a needy person who actively seeks reassurance of her worthiness through bloggers replying to her posts. I should have ignored them and saved myself some time.
I did want to say in regards to your post, if you felt that I was “tooting” my own horn, I don’t see this. I gave an example of a child I had tutored in one post to show how not everyone can learn to read at the same pace, or may be able to read even after intense instruction. In my second post, I explained about the students in my room and their differing ability levels. I cannot control, and neither do I want to, how you interpret what I write.
With regards to your comments about the experts, isn’t it logical to think that an expert is someone with actual hands-on experience and/or someone who has spent years studying and researching the topic at hand? As I said previously, I might follow what is going on in the Iraq war but how could I possibly know and pass comment on the strategies of war without ever having experienced the life of a soldier or officer for a period of time? I think it is an easy analogy to understand. Anyone can be an arm-chair expert, and I am not saying that they do not have a modicum of understanding, but it is limited if their is a lack of hands-on experience. I think most reasonable people would agree with this.
Brandy
March 31st, 2012
2:50 pm
@ScienceTeacher, Exactly. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
@Sneak Peek, Thank you for expounding (and expanding) upon your prior post. I really agree with everything you’ve said here. Thanks!
bilbo799
March 31st, 2012
5:00 pm
@ sneak peek.
As my old law professor would say, “some people just don’t have a knack for ’seeing the issue.’” You state, “With regards to your comments about the experts, isn’t it logical to think that an expert is someone with actual hands-on experience and/or someone who has spent years studying and researching the topic at hand?” Yeah, sure. But I never dispute your definition of what an expert is, only your emphasis on your expertise in responding to arguments.
I think your Iraq war analogy actually undermines your argument. You say that you couldn’t “possibly know and pass comment on the strategies of war without ever having experied the life of a sldier or officer.” First, as an initial matter, I understand what you’re attempting to say, but comparing the expertise required to fully “know and pass comment” on Georgia’s testing or education policy to the expertise required to fully understand the “strategies of war” in Iraq is a bit much. Second, our system of government absolutely depends on civillians (including, but not limited to, the President, the White House staff, Congressional committees, but also non-government actors, like policy think tanks, academics, journalists) who “know and pass comment” on things like the “strategies of war” all the time — it’s a crucial part of our form of governance. Many, and almost certainly most, of these civillians (including the current president) have never been soldiers themselves and thus lack the type of first hand experience you talk about. Think about how our system would fall apart if, using YOUR words, all these people decided they couldn’t “know and pass comment” on the “strategies of war” because they had never been soldiers or officers: say goodbye to congressional oversight, among other things.
sneak peek into education
March 31st, 2012
5:46 pm
@Bilbo779-You misunderstood my comments; I have never said that a lay person couldn’t pass have an opinion or pass comment on something but I will stand by my statement that they cannot do so with the same authority as someone with hands-on experience or with years of research on a topic. There are plenty of other analogies to be used but I don’t think it would matter which one I use, your conclusion would be the same. Also, I don’t I think most reasonable people would disagree with my statement. Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree.
I appreciate you taking time to reply to my comments.