Should every Georgia high school student take an online course? Why?
Update: This afternoon the House Education Committee passed the online learning bill with the mandate removed.
Now, the bill urges school systems to maximize digital learning rather than mandating that students take at least one online course to graduate.
In presenting his bill, state Sen. Chip Rogers said the legislation was needed to prepare students to work digitally and ready them for “a future outside the classroom. Society is moving in that direction at a rapid rate.”
A second reason to push systems to embrace greater online learning, said Rogers, is that students won’t know if they learn better digitally if they lack the option.
Now, this was the original post this morning:
Senate Bill 289 sponsored by state Sen. Chip Rogers, R-Woodstock, would mandate that all Georgia high school students complete at least one online course starting in 2014.
The problem with the bill is that there’s no reliable body of research documenting the effectiveness of online learning in k-12. This bill seems premature given that lack of evidence.
The bill states: Beginning with students entering ninth grade in the 2014-2015 school year, each student shall complete prior to graduation at least one course containing online learning. This requirement shall be met through an online course offered by the Georgia Virtual School established pursuant to Code Section 20-2-319.1, through an online dual enrollment course offered by a postsecondary institution, or through a provider approved pursuant to subsection (c) of Code Section 20-2-319.3.
The bill will be discussed today at 1 p.m. at the House Education Sub-Committee on Academic Support in Room 506 in the CLOB.
In its own meta analysis of all the research on the issue, the U. S. Department of Education warned that there was a “small number of rigorous published studies contrasting online and face-to-face learning conditions for k–12 students. In light of this small corpus, caution is required in generalizing to the k–12 population because the results are derived for the most part from studies in other settings (e.g., medical training, higher education).”
More promising than online learning is blended instruction, which combines traditional face-to-face classroom teaching with some computer-based activities. Many schools in Georgia are already doing this.
The U.S. DOE concluded:
In recent experimental and quasi-experimental studies contrasting blends of online and face-to-face instruction with conventional face-to-face classes, blended instruction has been more effective, providing a rationale for the effort required to design and implement blended approaches. When used by itself, online learning appears to be as effective as conventional classroom instruction, but not more so.
However, several caveats are in order: Despite what appears to be strong support for blended learning applications, the studies in this meta-analysis do not demonstrate that online learning is superior as a medium. In many of the studies showing an advantage for blended learning, the online and classroom conditions differed in terms of time spent, curriculum and pedagogy. It was the combination of elements in the treatment conditions (which was likely to have included additional learning time and materials as well as additional opportunities for collaboration) that produced the observed learning advantages. At the same time, one should note that online learning is much more conducive to the expansion of learning time than is face-to-face instruction.
Finally, the great majority of estimated effect sizes in the meta-analysis are for undergraduate and older students, not elementary or secondary learners. Although this meta-analysis did not find a significant effect by learner type, when learners’ age groups are considered separately, the mean effect size is significantly positive for undergraduate and other older learners but not for K–12 students. Without new random assignment or controlled quasi-experimental studies of the effects of online learning options for K–12 students, policy-makers will lack scientific evidence of the effectiveness of these emerging alternatives to face-to-face instruction.
I often ask education experts about virtual/distance learning in the k-12 arena and routinely hear the same answer: We don’t know enough yet. In a conference call last week on improving high school rigor, I asked Patte Barth, director of the Center for Public Education, whether it makes sense to mandate online courses as a condition of high school graduation.
“I have been looking into it and one big finding is that we don’t really have a lot data on the effectiveness,” she said. “The ability to work online is a 21st century skill, so I think there is an argument for making online courses a condition of graduation. But we are also dealing with adolescents who are learning how to work independently. It is something they are only developing. When you send kids out to the cyber sea without a lifeguard, I am a little skeptical of what kind of results you can expect. There are some models for what they call blended learning. To me, that seems to make sense.”
The issue also came up during Education Week’s recent Quality Counts panel. Asked about the role of computer learning, Emiliana Vegas, a senior economist in the education research hub of the World Bank, said World Bank had been evaluating the evidence on computer learning.
“It is very thin and mixed,” Vegas said. “Our conclusion is that it is inevitable that schools will use more computer-learning and they probably should because the world is changing in that direction. It is another tool that teachers have at their disposal. But it is not a substitute. It is not solution in itself.”
The research shows high failure and dropout rates in distance learning. Here is an excerpt from a study by University of Tennessee researchers M.D. Roblyer and Lloyd Davis:
Despite anticipated and real benefits of virtual schooling, it is not unusual for virtual schools to report a dropout rate of from 40-70% (Oblender, 2002; State of Colorado, 2006), though some established schools claim a dropout rate from 10-20%. In the case of one program, it was found that virtual students were forced to repeat grades at a rate four times that of students statewide (Rouse, 2005). Some virtual school programs have addressed high dropout and failure rates through front-end means such selecting and admitting students on the basis of identified criteria, instituting required pre-course orientations, and increasing the length of the drop-add period to 28 or more days. Some schools have also increased levels of students monitoring and facilitation. Virtual schools report no data on the success of the latter strategies, but informal reports indicated they have met with at least some success (Pape, Revenaugh, Watson, & Wicks, 2006).
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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129 comments Add your comment
Reinvent_ED
March 15th, 2012
12:37 pm
And last point to all of you: why do you “label” everything as democrat or republican? maybe if everyone would use their own individuality and look at the issue for what it is, rather than assuming that an issue is a “Republican” or “Democrat” issue, we wouldn’t have the polarization in this country. Do you think the African American and other minority families whose children are in charter schools care if you’re a democrat or republican? As long as you support innovation in education, it doesn’t matter.
Let me conclude by sharing with you some of the wisest words our founding fathers said. John Adams was so clairvoyant about the fear of the two party system:
“There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.”
Adams was so accurate in his remarks.
Don’t assume that someone is with the opposing party just because they disagree with you on a certain issue. You have no idea who I am and what I have built for the city of Atlanta. The future well-being of our children is not a republican or democratic issue. It’s common sense.
FYI
March 15th, 2012
1:45 pm
@ Reinvent_ED: “Mark my words – HR 1162 is going to pass.”
Well, you were wrong…it didn’t pass as a mandate to schools, only a recommendation. Thank goodness. Another unfunded mandate for schools that have had their budgets cut, with students who include those who are poor and can’t afford computers.
As Mark Twain wrote: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”
Reinvent_ED
March 15th, 2012
3:40 pm
Good luck, FYI. Respond to me after the resolution passes and the people vote for it on November’s ballot. And, regarding your statements which the AJC should be removing from this blog, I’d like to offer you famous words from Martin Luther King Jr who once said,
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
Reinvent_ED
March 15th, 2012
3:58 pm
And one last thing. I do not think the readers of this blog want a continued back and forth between two readers, one who is clearly set on making personal attacks and not engaging in civil discourse. And that person is not me.
@Maureen, this is my final post on your blog. Until such time as the AJC monitors the blogs appropriately, I am refraining from making any additional contributions. The tone of these blogs is offensive and not what anyone with any kind of brain would call “intellectual debate.”
Let me say one last thing to whoever this “FYI” is. You talk about the poor and those that can’t afford computers. Well guess what? I work in those neighborhoods, and I can tell you without stuttering that the children my nonprofit organization support have more passion, more creativity, more curiosity and more intellect than you! And they don’t need computers to achieve – just the right ingredients that will continue to build their social and emotional skills. Technology alone does nothing. That’s called “cramming.”
FYI
March 15th, 2012
4:11 pm
@Reinvent_ED. So sensitive! “You don’t know who I am!”, you actually stated. Ridiculous. I suppose that’s “civil discourse.”
The children in your non-profit organization would have needed computers to complete their schoolwork if HB 289 had passed as originally written, no matter how many how many “social and emotional skills” they had.
Prof
March 15th, 2012
5:52 pm
Maureen must be quite even-handed, for she seems to have removed the earlier blog link that “Reinvent_ED” provided, as well as the supposedly “slanderous” post in which Teacher2 complained about it.
Mark Twain was a wonderfully insightful and incisive critic of American politics, among other hypocrisies.
Teacher2
March 15th, 2012
6:02 pm
@FYI- Thanks!
@Reinvent_ED
The assumption of “financial gain” is all yours. You spoke of “financial gain”, those are your words not mine. I find that to be an interesting assumption on your part (which again is my opinion). My response to the issue of “tarnishing my reputation” is that you really need to get over yourself!
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 15th, 2012
10:17 pm
I think that @Reinvent_ED raises a lot of salient points. I think it is quite appropriate for this person to bring in outside research and perspectives, because it’s clear from the posts to date, that this blog’s readers need to read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers.” I think you have all felt so threatened by an individual who has raised some excellent points!
SB 289 is about access to online learning as part of a “blended learning” experience. Yes, @FYI, you are correct that many of these kids don’t have computers at home, but they do have them in school, and there are mechanisms in place to ensure these kids get the same type of digital learning opportunities as those who have those computers at home. So I think you are partly right and partly wrong.
It doesn’t matter if the research hasn’t proved this out yet. By the time you get what you want, it’ll be too late. your kids don’t process information the way the previous generation did. It’s called “neuroplasticity.”
This reader thinks that all of you should open your minds and consider the merits of what @Reinvent_ED said. You made some incorrect assumptions on this individual and all of you should take a deep breath. I for one am going to visit his blog and suggest he consider writing something about the discussions going on in this state. You think he has an ego, but I don’t agree. See what this person has done before you go down the character-assassination path.
Prof
March 16th, 2012
11:14 am
To this outsider (I don’t teach K-12, and my child is long grown and flown off to the North), it seems as if a good part of the problem here is that there are very practical factors here that Reinvent_ED doesn’t/won’t consider.
No, all K-12 students do NOT have sufficient computer support at their schools to provide “the same type of digital learning opportunities as those who have those computers at home.” Many schools, especially in the rural areas, have had budget cutbacks. HB 289 would have mandated that all Georgia schools provide such online courses, whether or not they had sufficient resources to do so. Please read the earlier entries on this blog thread for some idea of the practical difficulties and expenses this unfunded mandate could have entailed.
And public education must educate all of its students, its special education and very poor students, as well as its gifted and suburban students.
Then there is the larger issue of this educational issue being decided by a political fiat rather than by the state’s DOE. That to me is truly disturbing, and never addressed by Reinvent_ED at all.
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 16th, 2012
12:53 pm
Prof, you can only incorporate so much in blog post. I think the problem you are describing is not something that education can solve in and of itself. Poverty plays a huge role in schooling, and I can assure you that we can reach these students with technology by creating an “innovation ecosystem,” which brings together government, private industry and education to create transitional pathways for children. For example, I think you might want what Nashville’s public schools are doing quite interesting. See the work they have done to convert their high schools into “Academies,” or “Small Learning Communities.” They are doing it right.
I think you open up Pandora’s Box when you say that public education must educate all of its students. That is absolutely critical, but it can’t be done through a “one size fits all” approach. I can tell you unequivocally that the model used to build our public education system during the Industrial Age will be the model that could potentially destroy it in the age of connectivity.
Seth Godin’s manifesto, “Stop Stealing Dreams,” is one that all of @Maureen’s readers should read.
Ronin
March 16th, 2012
2:53 pm
Interesting points on both sides. While I don’t agree with a government mandate for on-line classes, it will eventually supplement/blend with face time in the class. These programs will eventually save dollars by making teaching more efficient and requiring less brick and mortar space. Virtual, Charter and other technological advancements will help improve the quality of public/government education, by offering more choices.
Teacher2
March 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
I have noted the following previous post:
Reinvent_ED
March 14th, 2012
3:51 pm
I suggest all of the naysayers read Seth Godin’s manifesto, “Stop Stealing Dreams.” It’s an eye-opener for all those who oppose this bill.
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Reinvent_ED
March 15th, 2012
3:58 pm
@Maureen, this is my final post on your blog. Until such time as the AJC monitors the blogs appropriately, I am refraining from making any additional contributions….
—————————————————————————————————————————
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 16th, 2012
12:53 pm
Seth Godin’s manifesto, “Stop Stealing Dreams,” is one that all of @Maureen’s readers should read.
————————————————————————————————————————————-
What a coincidence!
Reinvent_ED
March 16th, 2012
7:54 pm
Teacher2, you have too much time on your hands. Maybe the person is just a supporter of me?. You would do well by reading the manifesto, and you might learn a thing or two about it. I have written a blog post about this blog and that fact that people can be so hostile and downright pathetic. My children have better manners than you. I’m glad you’re not their teacher! My mother who taught in public schools for her entire career would be ashamed of your!
Reinvent_ED
March 16th, 2012
8:00 pm
And @Maureen, feel free to remove my comment. This will DEFINITELY be my last post on this blog. So Teacher 2, FYI and whomever else wants to continue to make personal attacks and not debate civilly, feel free to continue lambasting me – I won’t be reading it.
Prof
March 16th, 2012
9:16 pm
I did a little research on Seth Godin’s “Stop Stealing Dreams.” It is an eBook, free and available for anyone to download who Googles the title. Great free advertising in AJC, Maureen. Apple wouldn’t have anything to do with carrying it; and Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble.com don’t list it among their eBooks. The equivalent in regular book publishing would be a vanity press book.
And vanity press books are worthless as serious publications because anyone with money can publish them…there’s no scholarly vetting. The problem here is not that it’s an eBook, but that no-one besides the author has vouched for its accuracy or scholarship… yet it purports to be a manifesto in education.
Right on target, Teacher2!
Wooden Horse
March 17th, 2012
9:21 am
I can’t speak for other online schools, but I can tell you that when my child took a class through Georgia Virtual School, he had a teacher who was not certified in the field in which she was teaching. In addition, when another student cheated off my child, Georgia Virtual School did nothing about it.
Ole Guy
March 17th, 2012
2:40 pm
I realize there exists an arguement of “this is the 21st century…kids of today are (somehow) different from their mid-20th century counterparts”. The basic core of a meaningful education lies, not so much in acquiring the skills of 21st century technology but in mastering the basics within the “3-R Domain”. If the education community is to expose kids to the world of technology to any extent beyond minimal intro, they need to, first, DEMAND mastery of the basics. Anything less and all the high-speed utilization of technology, on-line course work, etc don’t mean a thing. It’s that frequin simple.
Shoving technology down kids’ throats, prior to basics mastery, is tantamount to stickin’ that 19-to-21 y/o kid in high performance aircraft before his first solo in simple trainers. The result is next-to-guaranteed one outcome…DEATH. The only difference: the student pilot’s death will be quick, while these kids’ “deaths” will be in the form of ill-prepared lives of mediocrity..
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 17th, 2012
4:32 pm
prof, READ THE BOOK. The problem ALL of you have is that you are looking for research and data. Seth Godin is one of the most respected social media gurus in the WORLD. Perhaps if educators were compelled to read some of his books, our education system may be faring better.
Before you judge a book, READ IT. It’s the close minded people who read this blog that keep our education system in the dark ages. No ones talking about showing technology down kids’ throats, Ole Guy. You are not a digital native, and you do not understand how kids process information.
Before you all make judgments, DO SOME RESEARCH. I challenge Prof and Teacher2 to read the manifesto and then comment on it. There are some teachers on this blog who are very open to change and are using digital learning tools in their teaching plans. Some of you will never change – you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
So keep on lambasting digital learning and assuming that folks like me and @Reinvent_ED are anti-teacher and anti-public education. What we are against is the status quo, which all of you are so set on protecting.
READ THE BOOK. What’s the harm? Maybe you’ll even learn something. You folks act like children – students in your classes who tell you they don’t want to try something new. So pathetic and sad. I I happened to enjoy the post on @Reinvent_ED’s blog. He’s got a point.
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
As John Stuart Mill said, “It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And, if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question.”
Prof
March 17th, 2012
5:56 pm
@Stop Stealing Dreams, Mar. 17, 5:26 pm. Indeed.
I didn’t bother to read this 30,000 manifesto with 132 sections, but went right to Wikipedia, today’s online source of information I’m sure you’d approve.
Wikipedia terms Seth Godin an entrepreneur, author, and public speaker. He graduated with an MBA and founded Yoyodyne, one of the first online marketing companies. Here he came up with the concept of permission marketing, where the business provides something ‘anticipated, personal, and relevant.’ Yoyodyne used contests, online games, and scavenger hunts to market companies to participating users. In 1998, Godin sold Yoyodyne to Yahoo! for $30 million and became Yahoo’s vice president of direct marketing, a position he held until 2000. In 2010, he began working directly with Amazon; and in 2012 released an online manifesto “Stop Stealing Dreams” in response to the question ‘What do you think we ought to do about education?’”
So Godin is a multimillionaire who knows a lot about online business marketing and is on hire for Amazon, but has no scholarly knowledge of anything but business, no experience in education or teaching, no background in the subject at all.
He may have money, but that doesn’t mean that he knows a blessed thing about Education. It sounds like he’s shaped his so-called “manifesto” to what he thinks the market wants. This may benefit Amazon, but not public schools with human students, tight budgets, and teachers with actual experience.
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 17th, 2012
6:07 pm
READ THE BOOK – you’re still stuck in the Industrial Age. Keep on berating Seth – ever read his books? Of course not. The man is a genius. And if he chose to teach, he’d be a great teacher. It’s so sad to read your comments, Prof. Maybe those outside “the system” can help fix the system??? Ever hear of “groupthink?” Doubt it – you didn’t get educated in that subject area. Oh I forgot. They don’t really teach management and entrepreneurship in K-12 education. Kids aren’t taught that it’s ok to fail, that you learn more from failures than successes. Oh yeah – it’s not in the curriculum so you can’t teach it. Maybe I’ll add a question on the next multiple choice test. Better yet, I’ll have my students memorize what groupthink means.
It’s pathetic that you can’t read the book – I read it in 3 hours. Instead, you make sweeping generalizations. I’ve had enough of this discussion – there are no intellectuals to debate with here.
Stop Stealing Dreams
March 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
Let me tell you one more think, Prof. EXPERIENCE MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. My entire career has been based on the fact that critical thinking, tenacity and hard work trump experience EVERY TIME. I’ll take the thinker over the experience any day of the week. But of course I can’t in public education, because you’ve got TENURE. What a joke. This debate is a joke, and I’ll leave the rest of my monologue for an environment where open minds and intelligent, respectful discussion prevails!!!
Prof
March 17th, 2012
6:20 pm
“I’ll leave the rest of my monologue for an environment where open minds and intelligent, respectful discussion prevails!!!” You mean, where no-one questions or criticizes you. Your contempt for education certainly convinces one to read a book on the subject.
Godin sounds like a blowhard who’s written what he thinks will sell to fools like legislators who want to pass laws on how schools should be run. A shill for Amazon making a lot of money. But certainly not a thinker.
Prof
March 17th, 2012
7:58 pm
Excuse me. I did not express myself accurately. A “shill” is one who works as a decoy, as in a confidence game, by posing as a customer or innocent bystander. That would be Reinvent_ED. Godin sounds like a “hack” for Amazon, or a writer hired to produce commercial writing.
Teacher2
March 17th, 2012
9:30 pm
@Prof,
Thanks for the information!
I wonder when both Reinvent_ED and Stop Stealing Dreams will follow through on the threat to stop posting.
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