Tech leaders lend a hand to undocumented students who dream of college
At a Georgia State rally in support of the Dream Act, police order students to move. Six students were arrested at the August protest. (M. Martinez/mundohispanico)
The Wall Street Journal reports that the “titans” of Silicon Valley are coming to the aid of undocumented students who want to attend college in the United States, a dream that is being derailed by state legislatures intent on limiting access to their public colleges, including those in Georgia.
On Monday, the state Senate approved a bill that would bar illegal immigrants from attending all of Georgia’s 60 public colleges, the 35 colleges in the University System of Georgia and the 25 in Technical College System of Georgia.
If Senate Bill 458 becomes law, Georgia would join Alabama and South Carolina in barring undocumented students from its public college classrooms.
According to the AJC, Sen. Barry Loudermilk, R-Cassville, said his bill guarantees that taxpayer-supported colleges only serve citizens and those who are in the country lawfully. He maintains that said it’s wrong for illegal immigrants to take seats at these schools since they can’t legally work in the country after graduation.
But the Wall Street Journal article says a powerful, influential and wealthy group of innovation leaders — Jeff Hawkins, inventor of the Palm Pilot; and the family foundations of Andrew Grove, co-founder of Intel Corp., Mark Leslie, founder of the former Veritas Software Corp., and Laurene Powell Jobs, widow of Apple Inc. co-founder Steve Jobs — disagree with locking such students out of higher education.
The Silicon Valley money is part of a broader response by individuals and states to Congress, which hasn’t passed the Dream Act. That federal legislation would offer a path to legalization for illegal immigrants who graduate from a U.S. high school and attend college or join the military. “We think Congress’s inaction…is devastating for these students and tragic for the country,” said Ms. Powell Jobs, who was one of the first in the tech community to champion the Dream Act by lobbying her congresswoman and writing an op-ed piece supporting the legislation.
The focus of the Silicon Valley philanthropists is Educators for Fair Consideration, or E4FC, a nonprofit that gives scholarships, career advice and legal services to students brought to the U.S. illegally as children.
Companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants can face civil and criminal penalties. Among other ideas, the Silicon Valley donors are studying the possibility of using unpaid internships as way for students to come to the attention of employers who might later sponsor them for a legal work visa. After helping a few dozen students through college with small donations, the San Francisco-based organization expanded with money from the tech leaders. It now has enlisted immigration attorneys to offer legal advice to hundreds of undocumented students.
“We used to think, ‘Let’s just get them through college’” with scholarships, said Katharine Gin, a teacher who founded E4FC along with a college counselor. “We thought the federal Dream Act would pass and we would be helping these students in the interim period only.”
Several of the Silicon Valley supporters became aware of the issue close up: Mr. Hawkins got to know an undocumented student at his daughters’ high school. Liz Simons, daughter of the founder of hedge fund Renaissance Technologies, mentored an undocumented honor student in high school who was struggling to raise funds for college because of his illegal status. Seth Leslie, son of Veritas’s founder, had encountered undocumented students in his work as a schoolteacher and principal. The money involved is relatively small: The tech philanthropists and others gave hundreds of thousands dollars in the last year to the group, whose 2012 operating budget is $600,000.
California, Illinois and New York in recent months passed bills that enable undocumented students to receive financial aid for college. Thirteen states allow illegal immigrants who reside in their borders to pay in-state fee.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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126 comments Add your comment
Centrist
March 6th, 2012
1:54 pm
Liberals wish to equate ILLEGAL immigrant students with birthright citizenship (anchor babies) via ILLEGAL immigrants. While it is not the child’s fault that their parents came here ILLEGALLY, there has to be a distinction. Many citizens do not agree with birthright citizenship, but at least for now it is the law. Very few countries give birthright citizenship – below is a list and you will notice the entire continents of Europe, Australia, Africa, and most of Asia and not on it.
* Argentina
* Barbados
* Brazil
* Canada
* Colombia
* Jamaica
* Mexico
* Pakistan
* Peru
* Romania
* United States
* Uruguay
Do some research
March 6th, 2012
1:56 pm
Research indicates that in the overall population, a 1 percent increase in the number of immigrants with college degrees leads to a 9 to 18 percent rise in patent production. Open immigration policies are a feature, not a bug. That is something that we need….
Who these visionaries are attempting to assist are children brought here by their parents when they were young , by no fault of their own. They grew up here and went to public schools , which tax payers contribute to , why not allow them to continue their education in state since we have already funded their education? And a lot of them probably got better marks than their legal classmates..
From a lot of the posts here I would imagine that you believe that a child born to a cocaine dealing father should also go to jail….Just because their parents brought them here as children , does not make them criminals. They love this country just as you do , if not more , because they know how terrible conditions can be in their home country. People are so jaded that live here and take everything for granted. You would want to escape India , Africa , Mexico , Peru and the like as well.
Logic
March 6th, 2012
1:59 pm
What is the difference between “undocumented” and “illegal”?
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
“Not all illegals who come here have good intentions as proven by the fact that Metro Atlanta has the center of the Latin American illegal drug trade for the entire Eastern part of the North American continent.”
So they’re all guilty then? That’s like saying “all white people are racist” and punishing us all for it. Be wary of stereotypes and broad generalizations- they don’t make one appear more patriotic or American.
Jane
March 6th, 2012
2:09 pm
I feel that if you are not here legally then you don’t have right to attend state funded colleges and universities. I hear of a lot of students that were denied admissions to GA Tech because its full of foreign students. We in America need to think of America first. We are never going to get this country’s work force where it needs to be if we are not educating the people that live and work here. Most of the student that come here from other countries come and learn and then take it back to their countries and use it against us. The 911 bombers are prime examples.
We need to educate our American children first and let the foreign children get educated by their country. I for one am tired of paying taxes for foreigners. This is what it will take to get our work force where it needs to be to compete on a global level. We used to be a country that did everything for ourselves but now we depend on most of our goods and services from foreign countries.
We used to take pride in our country but now we are letting foreigners tell us that we can’t even speak our native language, we need to speak Spanish. We can’t celebrate our national holidays because it offends them. We can’t say “Merry Christmas, we have to say Happy Holidays.” And we have changed our core values to please them. Our kids don’t get a Christmas break they get a winter break. They don’t get an Easter break they get a Spring break. We are catering too much to foreigners.
Wonder...
March 6th, 2012
2:10 pm
What is wrong with requiring all persons to enter America legally?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
March 6th, 2012
2:12 pm
MannyT
March 6th, 2012
1:40 pm
“@Will…I am fine agreeing to disagree with your 12:57 PM post. The opinion is clear, and we see it differently.”
As I am fine to civilly agree to disagree with your position also, without juvenile name-calling and personal attacks.
“I do have one partially related question…later you mention in that post and later posts that out of state & legal students should have little if any priority in the enrollment process. Given that stance, what should be the state of GA/University System of GA position be on using federal funds within the public college & university system?”
Well, as much as I have my opinions about the makeup of student enrollment on college campuses, it’s still the Feds who have the ultimate say about how federal funds are used, but the state can still regulate who is eligible to attend state-funded colleges and universities.
The Feds have let it be known that the states are free to decide who can and cannot attend their publicly-funded universities, which also means that states can place restrictions on the state funding that goes to private institutions as they please, though they cannot necessarily fully regulate private institutions.
According to the purview of the Feds, states could restrict enrollment in their schools to only in-state students or students without criminal records in they wanted to and though it is my opinion that in-state students should take the ultimate priority in the enrollment process, I am pragmatic enough to accept that it is highly unlikely that there will be any further restrictions placed on the amount of out-of-state and legal foreign students in the University System of Georgia anytime soon, if ever.
guest
March 6th, 2012
2:12 pm
Ron F.,
You missed the point. To me, if one illegal alien commits a felony, then that’s one too many. Even though the percentage of illegals that commit violent crimes may be small, it is still too much compared to if they weren’t here in the first place.
Do some research
March 6th, 2012
2:18 pm
Jane – I was going to write a long diatribe response , but I will just say that you come across as more moronic than anyone who has posted here today…and that says a lot.
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
2:21 pm
guest: got it- if one is bad, they’re all bad so get them out. We’re lucky other countries don’t apply the same rule to us. So the question is this: what do we do now? Do we just round up anyone who looks like they might be illegal and put them in camps until we sort them out?
wow
March 6th, 2012
2:22 pm
Do some research,
I disagree. Jane pretty much hit the nail on the head. The only thing she should clarify is the term “foreigner.” I think she means illegal alien.
hmm
March 6th, 2012
2:23 pm
So technically, could the tech leaders could be charged with aiding & abetting criminals?
)
guest
March 6th, 2012
2:25 pm
Ron,
I don’t know if you really don’t get it or if you are just playing dumb. How many American citizens have to be killed, robbed, raped, etc by an illegal alien before you acknowledge somthing needs to be done. It is easier to monitor legal aliens than illegal aliens. You can weed out a lot of violent offenders.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
March 6th, 2012
2:26 pm
Also, though I am very much against allowing illegal and undocumented students to attend publicly-funded colleges and universities, I could at the very least accept the prospect of allowing undocumented students to attend college at out-of-state tuition rates, if, and only if, there was a good-faith effort to DRAMATICALLY expand the number of higher education slots available to legal Georgian citizens from the roughly 310,000 spots now available to those seeking a college education in this state of just under 10 million to a number that is much more acceptable to attempting to provide Georgians access to a postsecondary education.
If the number of USG spots were expanded from under 310,000 to something upwards well north of at least 500,000 spots, preferably closer to one million spots, I could maybe possibly accept the enrollment of illegal immigrants at state institutions, granted they pay out-of-state tuition, but that is the only scenario in which I could accept undocumented students being able to enroll at state instituitions, otherwise, undocumented students should NOT be allowed to take spots away from Georgians.
Prof`
March 6th, 2012
2:29 pm
As to the question of whether legal international students should be accepted or allowed into our state universities, please consider that the 1964 Civil Rights Act prohibited discrimination in federally funded agencies or public institutions on the basis of race, gender, religion, or national origins. The 2003 Supreme Court decided to allow race to be considered in college admissions; and I’m sure many of you blogging here know that this is now being reconsidered by the SC. Maureen has just had several blogs devoted to that topic.
But it is still against the law to discriminate based on an individual’s national origin…which would include legal international students.
And @ Jane at 2:09, Jews are certainly not “foreigners”!
Do some research
March 6th, 2012
2:34 pm
@ Wow and Jane – So you guys actually think that Christmas break is now Winter break because of Illegal immigration?
It has to do with religion , the USA is a country founded on freedom of religion , thus making her argument , lame and pointless in a forum that is discussing a different topic.
Do some research
March 6th, 2012
2:35 pm
Thank you Prof….
wow
March 6th, 2012
2:38 pm
Research,
We don’t say Christmas anymore bc of the stupid PC in this country.
gdawg
March 6th, 2012
2:38 pm
Thanks, Maureen. For one of the few times, you and I are on the same page. I’ve been working for, voting for and supporting FISCAL Conservative Republicans since 1960 so I think I’ve paid my dues. I like what Senator Tommie Williams said yesterday. We should have enacted the Dream Act nationally when it was proposed by President Bush. Unfortunately Senators Chambliss and Isakson (both of whom tucked tail and withdrew their support when the D.A.Layne crowd yelled “foul.”
These children have done no wrong but we’re choosing to deny them an education. How much sense does this make? Farmers are losing money in Georgia and Alabama as a result of these laws. The price of farm goods produced in Georgia and Alabama will increase and we’ll end up importing some of those foods from foreign countries instead of exporting.
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
March 6th, 2012
2:42 pm
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
“So they’re all guilty then? That’s like saying “all white people are racist” and punishing us all for it. Be wary of stereotypes and broad generalizations- they don’t make one appear more patriotic or American.”
All ILLEGALS may not be guilty of high crimes like the ones I mentioned, but the encouragement of illegal immigration for purposes of filling low-wage and manual labor jobs has also encouraged illegals to come here for purposes of other than just working jobs that either could not be filled by Americans during a previous period of economic expansion or that employers refused to fill with American workers has also greatly encouraged the vast expansion of the drug trade across the U.S. and especially here in Georgia which has become the major illegal drug distribution center of Eastern North America.
Drug cartels use the very large and until recently, fast-growing, illegal immigrant population to blend in to the point of almost being invisible to law enforcement and the naked eye of the average citizen.
U.S. Citizen criminals also prey heavily upon otherwise “law-abiding” illegal immigrants through robbery and other violent predatory crimes as they know that illegals who have been victims of crime are much likely to report the crime to the police for fear of being punished and deported due to being in the country illegally.
deegee
March 6th, 2012
2:47 pm
LOL! Jane has a distinction. She is the most xenophobic, ignorant poster of the day. If American students were half as motivated as foreign students, we wouldn’t be having a discussion about “getting our workforce where it needs to be.” The lazy, self-entitled American student and worker is driving US companies to foreign soil. A factory worker in Mexico is better educated, is capable of making Metric to Standard calculations, and has a better work ethic than the self-entitled American worker. Where else in this world can a child of any background get a free, public education from kindergarten to college and only 70% actually graduate from high school?
Will the last Democrat in Georgia please turn off the lights?.....
March 6th, 2012
2:48 pm
There’s also the illegals who drive without licenses and insurance who maim innocent people in hit-and-run crashes and then flee the scene with their illegal status making it difficult for them to be brought to justice.
Not-to-mention the and high and frequent prevalence of identity theft as illegals steal and use other people’s social security numbers and personal to illegally obtain employment and credit in the U.S.
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
2:50 pm
“I don’t know if you really don’t get it or if you are just playing dumb”
Trust me, I get it. I’m still waiting for someone, anyone, to come up with a reasonable plan for what to do with them. We either have to find a way to get them documented (so we can track them as you suggest), or we have to round them up and ship them out. Which is more cost effective in your opinion? As I said earlier, if it weren’t so difficult to get permission to be here, maybe we could more easily separate the good from the bad. Just an opinion.
“How many American citizens have to be killed, robbed, raped, etc by an illegal alien before you acknowledge somthing needs to be done?”
Show me the numbers, please.
guest
March 6th, 2012
2:54 pm
Show you the numbers? Seriously? Do you watch the news? There’s no denying that a lot of felonies are commited by illegal aliens. Example, my parents were rear-ended by an illegal alien and ended up in the hospital while the illegal alien fled the country.
deegee
March 6th, 2012
2:54 pm
Oh, geez, Ron. They will go straight to NumbersUSA.com and get you all of the ginned up numbers you could ever roll your eyes at.
deegee
March 6th, 2012
2:57 pm
Oh, my. Guest has given us the scientific number “a lot.” He has personal experience with the number “one.”
jsf
March 6th, 2012
3:00 pm
It’s a country bumkin state-Georgia, now the klanish-haters could not do much to the blacks, they switch do it to another weak minority-”kids mostly” inorder to release their hates. They blame the poorest of the poor of their economic ill. Pretty soon bumkin Klans are going to go after the Hawaiians, the Porto Ricans, and tell them to get off their land next, all lands and residencies belongs to John Wayne and Jim Crow after all.
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
guest- I do, in fact, watch the news…every day, in fact. One example does not make a case, although I understand the passion of the response. I was hit by a white “citizen” of the country who had no Georgia license and was driving a truck registered out of state. He fled too and my insurance company had to pick up the bill- and it was tens of thousands. Never found the guy either. Neither situation was okay in my opinion.
So how do we separate the legal from the illegal? How do we process and “ship back” the illegal? How do we pay for it?
guest
March 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
Deegee,
Pull your head out of your &%*. If you really believe that the number of felonies commited by illegal aliens is not “a lot” I have a unicorn I want to sell you. Asking for a “scientific number” for this is like asking me to provide you proof that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Besides, how many felonies commited by illegal aliens are you willing to turn a blind eye to?
Centrist
March 6th, 2012
3:05 pm
Here are some statistics:
In addition to the welfare, SSI, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF – 60 months), WIC, housing, taxpayer supported free hospital care, schooling with free breakfast and lunch, and crime – according to the U.S. Treasury Department, illegal aliens are bilking the federal government for billions because they are filing fraudulent returns. Buying these undocumented Democrat votes and ignoring deportation laws is hurting us badly.
The Treasury reported in July that the Internal Revenue Service coughed up $4.2 billion in child tax credits for illegal aliens in 2010 rocketed from $924 million in 2005.
ILLEGALS are fraudulently using the Additional Child Tax Credit (ACTC), which was created to give more money to taxpayers who cannot claim a full tax credit for children.
Because all wages, even those earned illegally, are taxed, but since illegals cannot get valid Social Security numbers, the government needs a way to track their income and collect what is due. It does so using individual taxpayer identification numbers (ITINs), which, again, are for those taxpayers who cannot obtain a valid Social Security card. The refund credit can be claimed even even if no income tax was withheld or paid, up to $1,000 per child. An estimated additional $1.8 billion was going to illegals via the Earned Income Tax Credit, for which they are also ineligible because it can be claimed only by taxpayers with Social Security numbers. Assume they are voting illegally, too.
The report concluded that “[t]he payment of Federal funds through this tax benefit appears to provide an additional incentive for aliens to enter, reside, and work in the United States without authorization, which contradicts Federal law and policy to remove such incentives.”
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.html
Illegal Immigration Statistics – http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/about/
According to the Paw Hispanic Center website, in their investigation of immigration crime statistics and the federal law courts records, 40% of all sentenced federal offenders were Latinos. Of those, 72% were not U.S. citizens.
13 people die every day due to illegal immigrants involved in traffic accidents.
$113,000,000,000 – This year’s cost of US illegal immigration. Approximately 75% of that cost is absorbed by the states.
$1117 – The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals.
$52,000,000,000 – The cost of educating the children of illegals. This is by far the single largest cost to the American taxpayer.
$2,700 – The average dollar amount a single illegal household costs the US federal government.
51% – The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
1,400,000- The number of illegal immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program.
Add false unemployment benefits, and an additional myriad of welfare programs including food stamps, WIC, school breakfast/lunch, Medicaid, TANF, SSI, childcare, public/rent-subsidized housing, child and earned income tax credits (checks if no taxes owed), free cellphones. It is not necessarily just lazy people collecting these – they are making an economic decision if they are not too proud to live off of taxpayers. There is little stigma left with “living on the dole”. Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoohkS6iyhY&feature=share
Hate to break it to ya
March 6th, 2012
3:08 pm
@ MannyT – I heart you.
Hate to break it to ya
March 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
The hate spouted here is heart-breaking.
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
Okay, guest. You got me. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west a lot.
John
March 6th, 2012
3:10 pm
Racist rednecks, y’all can’t survive without illegals because y’all are LAZY, makes you angry to see these kids go to college something yall couldn’t do haha
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
3:12 pm
Centrist: your ’source’ here is a bit dubious. Why is it that sites like this have “data” from the federal government that isn’t widely published? Could it be contrived perhaps? I went to the site and can’t even find background information on who sponsors the site or who its operators are. I never trust a site that doesn’t publish its sponsors/owners.
Do some research
March 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
Guest – The point is well taken , we get it…But regardless of whatever laws we have here , criminals will exist (legal or illegal). The argument that the initial article has created is not whether illegal immigrants are criminals , it is on the grounds that the DREAM ACT should be passed to provide a path to citizenship for hardworking people who happen to be students in this country and grew up here , calling USA home. No one is arguing that criminals should be allowed in this country or that we shouldn’t kick criminals out. Being an illegal immigrant is a civil crime…and you are lumping them in with killers , rapists , etc. All these humans want is a chance to have a better life.
Ron F.
March 6th, 2012
3:15 pm
Centrist: BTW, you ever tried to apply for any of the government “giveaways” you listed so exhaustively above? I raised two foster kids who were on Medicaid. You have NO idea how challenging it was to do the paperwork and provide required documentation. And you don’t get it if you don’t have the paperwork, let me assure you. I know that from actually living through it, not because a website told me so.
Hate to break it to ya
March 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
@Centrist (are you trying to be ironic?): I’m sure a website titled “Illegal Immigration Statistics” is a perfectly unbiased and legitimate source of information for all the other “centrists” out there.
Maybe they also have statistics on the amount of federal tax, state tax, sales tax, Medicare/Medicaid tax, and especially Social Security tax paid by undocumented folks each year. Could you list that for us? Perhaps draw your data from a site equally as “fair and balanced” as “Illegal Immigration Statistics.”
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:27 pm
I have a friend who was in the military for 20 yrs. He returned home with a wife and 3 small kids. He had to go to work right away and did. After nine years he returned to college to finish up his degree. He got one year end before the vet program ended, he borrowed some money to finish but could not get any other help. He left college with just six hours left to graduate. Now you friggin liberals want to give money to illegal aliens for college. Where were you when this veteran wanted help? No government programs would help except WIA but the school would not sign the paperwork needed by WIA. So he is now sixty and working in a low paying job still paying bare minimum for the student loans which he will die before paying it offl. Where were you darling liberals for this man?
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:31 pm
The anti-immigration sites that publish all of the statistics originate from the same place, Roy Beck and John Tanton. They are lobbyists that advocate for immigration reduction.
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:31 pm
Hate to break it to ya
March 6th, 2012
3:22 pm
Would it have been better for you if it were Federal website titled “Illegal Immigration Statistics” .
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:33 pm
At least it was not from the climate change group! After all, it is a consensus that illegal immigrants are illegal.
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:36 pm
williebkind, where were you when your veteran friend needed help? Are you telling me that your 60 year old friend couldn’t figure out how to pay for 6 hours of college credit? If that’s the case then I don’t think he learned anything in college.
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:43 pm
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:36 pm
I guess you do not know what it means to be “broke”!
Centrist
March 6th, 2012
3:43 pm
Disputing statistics is an age old battle for both sides. But ignoring the underlying problem they show is plain political partisanship. Even if you cut in half every one of those statistics – there is still a VERY obvious problem. It is NOT being ignored by a majority of voters or representatives – just a minority of liberal Democrats and most of the Obama administration.
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:44 pm
DEEGEE:
How much do you think that costs with graduation fees.?
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:49 pm
It amazes me that an uneducated 15 year old kid from Guatemala can figure out how to traverse hundreds of miles of rough terrain, cross the border illegally, land a job in California without knowing a word of English, save his money, and then bring his family across the border; but a red blooded American citizen that spends 20 years in the military can’t figure out how to pay for 6 hours of college credit.
iTiSi
March 6th, 2012
3:53 pm
It’s a dead giveaway when a writer, columnist, etc. refers to them as “undocumented” or just “immigrants”. Those are the extreme far left liberals or Progressives(brainless liberals) in the news media who show bias or sympathy toward them in their writings. Some are very subtle with it but then some are just right in your face with it. Maybe if they are so concerned about their welfare they should start harboring them in their own homes.
williebkind
March 6th, 2012
3:58 pm
deegee
March 6th, 2012
3:49 pm
You got it DEEGEE! The illegal alien does not pay anything. The Veteran has to pay for it all. With a family and kids plus a low salary would make it almost impossible. Of course the kids could do without some things. The wife could baby sit maybe or wash clothes. No to mention we are living in Ga. where the only high paying jobs are located in metro areas. Did you forget that? We are in Ga. not California…..yeah I know fantasies get to seem real at times dont they.
Did you ever stop to think?
March 6th, 2012
4:00 pm
So, let’s say that the bill passes. Why not take the next step and rescind the citizenship of “anchor babies?” Then, rescind the citizenship of anchor grandbabies, and anchor great-grandbabies, and then anchor great-great-grandbabies. After all, none of them would be here if their ancestors hadn’t broken the law. Therefore their descendants should have no right to be here in the first place. Send them all back to their ancestral homeland! My guess is a lot of us would be on the next boat back to Europe or other places we don’t fit in anymore. If you think the borders are pourous now, just imagine how many illegals came into the US before night-vision goggles.